12/9/25: Data blackout as MAGA civil war explodes

Summary

The David Pakman Show – Episode Summary

Episode: Data Blackout as MAGA Civil War Explodes
Date: December 9, 2025
Host: David Pakman
Special Guest: Senator Mark Kelly (Arizona)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, David Pakman explores the chaos engulfing the Trump administration as it implements a sweeping "data blackout," hiding key economic indicators from the public. The show delves into rising authoritarian tendencies, absurd distractions in public policy, escalating infighting among MAGA Republicans, and examines the profound risks these trends pose to democracy. Senator Mark Kelly joins the show to discuss receiving death threats after warning military members about refusing illegal orders—a topic that segues into the alarming normalization of political violence and the erosion of accountability. The episode closes with a piercing look at the roots of extremism, using a controversial Nick Fuentes interview as a case study.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Economic Data Blackout

• What’s Happening
  • The Trump administration has abruptly canceled the release of critical economic data: monthly jobs reports, inflation reports, and the advance GDP estimate.
  • Official explanation: government shutdowns have made it impossible to collect this data.
• Pakman’s Analysis
  • If the data were positive, the administration would publish it immediately ("If the numbers bolster your case that you’re killing it... you would put those numbers out there as quickly as you could." – 03:04).
  • This information blackout creates “flying blind” conditions for policymakers, businesses, and ordinary Americans, cascading uncertainty through the economy.
  • Private estimates (like ADP jobs data) become the only reference point.
  • Authoritarian Playbook: Suppressing reality-based data when it contradicts desired narratives is a classic move of autocratic regimes.

"You don’t have to change the numbers, you just get rid of them. You just delete them."
—David Pakman (05:06)

• Wider Implications
  • Enables propaganda: Without official numbers, the administration can make unsubstantiated claims (e.g., “Inflation’s down!”).
  • Sets a dangerous precedent for future presidents—of any party—to manipulate public perceptions by deleting inconvenient facts.

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2. Absurd Policy Distractions: Chin-Up Bars & Personal Responsibility

• Key Segment: The staging of an airport event with Health Secretary RFK Jr., “carnivore” advocate Paul Saladino, and Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy showcasing chin-up bars at Reagan Airport.
  • The administration touts airport fitness while chronic infrastructure issues—delayed flights, aging equipment, dysfunctional TSA—remain unaddressed (12:25).
• Pakman’s Take
  • This is a distraction from real, systemic problems by shifting focus to individual behavior.
  • Analogous to the “plastic straw” debate as a corporate smokescreen for deeper environmental issues.
• Memorable Moment
  • “Not a single one of these reps counts as a chin-up. I don’t see RFK getting basically to his nose...” (10:05)

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3. MAGA Civil War: Marjorie Taylor Greene vs. Trump

• Trigger Event
  • Marjorie Taylor Greene publicly mocks Trump on “60 Minutes,” claiming Republicans deride him behind closed doors.
• Trump’s Reaction
  • Trump unleashes a wild Truth Social post attacking Greene with personal insults, accusing her of disloyalty, and berating the press (15:55).
• Pakman’s Deconstruction
  • This exchange reveals Trump’s deep insecurity and the real fractures in the Republican Party.
  • The “MAGA civil war” is intensifying, but whether it leads to a Republican break with Trump going into the 2026 midterms will depend purely on political calculus.
  • Trump’s attacks on “60 Minutes” and media critics demonstrate continued authoritarian hostility toward independent journalism.

“Go after the media when they say anything you don’t like, even if it’s simply in an interview format...”
—David Pakman (19:13)

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4. Trump’s Daze and Disinformation at Press Conferences & Farm Policy

• Trump’s Confused Performance
  • Appears confused at public events, unable to answer basic questions about his own $11-12 billion farm bailout.
  • Bizarre answers about growing “little delicacies” in the U.S. and meandering, uninformed responses on trade and tariffs (26:00).
  • Snaps at a reporter pressing for transparency on Venezuelan maritime strike footage:
    “You are an obnoxious, a terrible, actually a terrible reporter. And it’s always the same thing with you.” (29:09)
• Economic Gaslighting
  • Repeats false claims that “prices are down” and inflation has been conquered—factually incorrect, as Pakman explains (30:24).
  • Pakman challenges listeners: Is Trump lying knowingly, or is he personally confused about basic economic facts?
• Farm Bailout Fiasco
  • Massive $11-12 billion plan is referred to as “socialism for farmers”—which Trump simultaneously wants credit for and attacks when others propose it.
  • Trump and his team disagree on the numbers live on air, highlighting the administration’s dysfunction (35:04).

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5. Authoritarian Moves: Removing Regulations, Enriching Friends

• Trump’s Proposal
  • Pledges to eliminate environmental safety regulations for farming equipment manufacturers (36:29), cynically blaming them for high costs.
• Pakman’s Analysis
  • Points out that regulation is not the true driver of cost, and removing them serves only to reward industry supporters and undermine safety.

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6. Interview: Senator Mark Kelly on Death Threats, Military Orders, and Accountability

• Context: Kelly joined other senators in a video, reminding troops that refusal of illegal orders is a duty. Trump retaliates by inciting threats against Kelly.
• Key Takeaways
  • Personal and family safety for dissenters is seriously compromised:

    “When the most powerful man in the world... says that I should be hanged, executed... it does result in more threats...”
    —Sen. Mark Kelly (41:13)

  • Kelly refuses to be intimidated or withdraw from public forums.
  • Explains repeated efforts by Trump to encourage or attempt illegal military action:
    • Advocated for targeting civilians
    • Suggested shooting protestors
    • Plans to use the military in cities as a training exercise (45:05)
  • Insists on oversight and public release of evidence in the Venezuela "double tap" boat strike, calling for hearings and accountability (47:50).

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7. Trump Spokesperson Caroline Levitt’s Media Meltdown

• Levitt on Defense
  • Caught lying about China soybean exports, farm bailout numbers, and the sources/funding of tariffs (58:37, 60:45).
  • Repeats contradictory or provably false economic claims (e.g., “gas prices are at their lowest point... in five years" – 61:47).
• Broader Point
  • Pakman observes that when the truth cannot be spun, the administration's spokespeople are reduced to simply making things up.

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8. Exploiting Right-Wing Radicalization: The Nick Fuentes Interview Case Study

• Background
  • Piers Morgan interviews white supremacist Nick Fuentes; Pakman critiques the platforming of such figures while dissecting the psychology on display.
• Key Revelations
  • Fuentes admits never having had sex, blames women (“Women are very difficult to be around... I do not [think they should have the right to vote].” —Fuentes, 67:36)
  • Describes Hitler as “very fucking cool” for the “uniforms, the parades...”
• Pakman’s Insight
  • Draws a link between male sexual frustration, social alienation (“inceldom”), and attraction to the aesthetics of authoritarian extremism.
  • Extremist symbolism offers a sense of control, identity, and a target for rage to those otherwise lacking social bonds.

"...if we look at radicalization and extremism in young men, the fact that he is unable to find any women that he... [connects with] is not an aside."
—David Pakman (68:32)

• Conclusion
  • Understanding these psychological drivers is essential to preventing future waves of radicalization.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Economic Information Blackout:
  “You don’t have to change the numbers, you just get rid of them.” (05:06, Pakman)
• On Absurd Distractions:
  “Not a single one of these reps counts as a chin up. I don’t see RFK getting basically to his nose...” (10:05, Pakman)
• On Authoritarian Tendencies:
  “Go after the media when they say anything you don’t like, even if it’s simply in an interview format...” (19:13, Pakman)
• On Trump’s Confusion:
  “There you go. What on earth is he talking about? There’s little delicacies...” (26:16, Pakman)
• On Kelly’s Resolve:
  “If I was to take a step back because of Donald Trump’s intimidation... that diminishes everybody’s First Amendment rights...” (41:56, Sen. Kelly)
• On Radicalization and Inceldom:
  “He’s weak and rejected. He can’t even get a girl, ok? And this militaristic imagery, hierarchy and a sense of meaning... provides a fantasy of strength and control that he completely lacks in the real world.” (71:09, Pakman)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–03:56 — Overview of economic data blackout & administration panic
• 03:57–10:00 — Economic data analysis & risks of “flying blind”
• 10:01–13:25 — Chin-up bar airport stunt, gaslighting & distraction politics
• 15:55–19:13 — MAGA Civil War: Trump vs. Marjorie Taylor Greene spat
• 24:10–30:46 — Trump’s confused press conference, pricing and trade
• 32:17–37:16 — Farm bailout details, regulatory rollbacks, contradictions
• 41:13–54:50 — Senator Mark Kelly interview: death threats, legal orders, accountability
• 58:37–63:34 — Caroline Levitt’s media tour: misinformation & deflection
• 67:19–73:43 — Nick Fuentes interview: incel radicalization and extremist iconography

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Summary

This episode is a striking chronicle of a White House in panic, spiraling into authoritarian habits as control slips. Pakman meticulously connects the dots between data blackouts, performative political stunts, the unraveling of MAGA unity, and the weaponization of both policy and messaging against perceived enemies. Senator Mark Kelly’s bravery and insights set a sober tone for the discussion of democratic backsliding and targeted intimidation. The show closes with an urgent warning about the radicalization of alienated young men, underlining the personal and social costs of failing to combat these dangerous authoritarian and extremist currents.

Listeners are left with both a sense of alarm and a clear-eyed understanding of what is at stake as 2026 approaches—Pakman’s analysis calls for vigilance, accountability, and a resistance to normalization of both absurdity and extremism.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

The administration is in a panic. How do we know that? Because they're shutting off all of the economic data. Jobs report is gone. The inflation report is gone. The advanced GDP preview, they canceled that one. And in the meantime, as we enter a data blackout, Trump is still trying to get the Federal Reserve to slash rates the way we would only even think about doing if the economy was struggling. Now, meanwhile, because everything's getting dumber, Trump's Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy, now put chin up bars at airports and he wants more of them as air traffic control is sadly outdated and planes are sitting delayed. And Robert F. Kennedy Jr. The Secretary of Health and Human Services, showed up and made biological comparisons so deranged that it strains credulity. Meanwhile, we have a MAGA Civil war update. After Marjorie Taylor Greene went after Trump on 60 Minutes Sunday night, Trump did respond and he did flip out. And we are going to look at the truth. Social post so unhinged, it should really come with a warning label. And finally, in a sickly yellow public appearance, Trump was so confused by basic questions that he seems to not even understand his own bailout of farmers. Not the first term bailout, that one was bad enough, but the new forthcoming $11 billion bailout of farmers. He doesn't know what's going on. I will also be joined by Senator Mark Kelly, who is being targeted by Trump and Republicans and getting death threats after he said, hey, if you're in the armed services, you might want to make sure you're not following any illegal order. So we'll talk to Senator Mark Kelly. We've got a great bonus show. A lot happening today.

All right, Donald Trump is in a full panic. The reason we know he's panicking is because he is canceling all of the economic data that he can cancel. This is the stuff that would tell us what is actually going on in the country. So the October jobs report canceled, the October inflation report canceled, the advanced estimate of third quarter gdp. This is like the first reading of whether the economy is growing or shrinking. They canceled that. Federal statistical agencies say that it's the government shutdown that meant economists couldn't collect the data. And as a result, a bunch of reports no longer exist. Now, this is the critically important part to understand if the economy were booming the way that Donald Trump claims, he would be rushing these numbers out. If Donald Trump suspected or knew or was being told that the GDP preview or that the inflation number or the jobs numbers were good, he would be trotting them out there immediately in order to be able to Say, look at what a great job I'm doing. The fact that, that all of those reports are canceled suggests they know the reports wouldn't be good. Now, there's another aspect to this. What Trump does want is the Federal Reserve to massively cut interest rates. The Federal Reserve only massively cuts interest rates when the economy is not going so well. When the economy is doing really well, you don't expect demand or request these huge cuts to the federal funds rate. When growth is weak, when unemployment may be going up, when the jobs numbers are in the toilet, when confidence is slipping, that's when you say, cut the federal funds rate and bail me out. So Donald Trump is on the one hand saying the economy is great, but on the other hand making requests that you only make when the economy is on life support. Like life support, like cut the Federal Funds Rate 3, 4 points, as Donald Trump has asked for many times. You could just let the numbers speak if the numbers were good. Instead, they are canceling all the numbers. Now, what we have is something called a data blackout. Policymakers and investors and businesses, people who would use that economic data to make decisions are flying blind. And they're forced to rely on private estimates like the jobs numbers from ADP as an example, because these normal government benchmarks that we for a long time have just expected to get every single month or quarterly, depending on the report, they are gone. And so when the jobs report disappears, workers don't know, what is the state of my industry? Is the industry, should I be interviewing for another job? Do I need to change careers? What's going on? They don't know. Businesses don't know. Should we be hiring or should we be putting in place a hiring freeze? When the inflation data disappears, retirees and families aren't able to plan for what is going to happen with costs. And then if you get rid of GDP data and we're going to get the formal GDP reading eventually, but it's that advance one that was canceled probably because it didn't look so good. You put investors and the Fed in a situation where they don't know is the economy growing or is it shrinking? And that increases the risk that the economic decisions that are made of are going to be problematic for everybody because they are being made blind. Now, here's the really dangerous part, as if everything I just told you isn't dangerous already. While we don't have official numbers, it makes it at least possible for this administration to make up whatever numbers they want. And there's nothing we can point to to say he's lying. I'll give you an example. When Trump says, oh, prices are down, we normally look at the inflation data. If inflation is 3%, prices aren't down, they're up 3%. If inflation is 2%, prices aren't down, they'RE up 2%. If the government doesn't publish inflation data, Trump can go, inflation's down. And while of course, we have other non official indicators we can point to, it puts Trump in a position, very authoritarian, very dictatorial, of being able to say, forget the statistics, forget the reporting, forget the people who specialize in this stuff. Just listen to me, I'll tell you. Unemployment, 2%, he could say, or inflation is minus 1% or the GDP is booming. The blackout is not this passive thing. It gives the White House and it gives authoritarians the power to replace facts with propaganda. And this is partially how you break a democracy. You don't have to change the numbers, you just get rid of them, just delete them. And markets don't just hate bad news, markets hate uncertainty. And if you talk to CEOs or investors or small businesses, they can handle a downturn that they can measure, that they know is happening. Flying blind is not something that they can handle. And so when these reports vanish, corporations go into protection mode. And that is rarely bad for the economy. The bigger picture that I want to zoom out to is that if you look around the world over the last 120, 130 years, this is what authoritarians do when the data of reality start to contradict the story that they want to tell. Governments that fear bad news don't just ignore it, they suppress it. And they manipulate unemployment numbers, they hide inflation, they delay reports. And it might make the regime look weak to be doing that, but terrible economic reports will make the regime look even worse. And so they go, let's just hide the reports. And you put out propaganda instead of data. Trump already censors agencies when the facts are inconvenient, and now he's trying to do it with the entire economy. Now, the danger of this becoming normalized if we accept presidents can just turn off the scoreboard when their team is losing, future presidents will do the same, or maybe even worse. I don't care whether it's a Democratic or a Republican president in the future, I don't want the data turned off. Give me the data, Let me evaluate it myself and make the business decisions that are appropriate for that data. And so we are taking many steps towards the economic information control we see in authoritarian states happening here. In the United States. And the most telling sign is Trump would only do this if he knows the numbers won't be good. If the numbers bolster your case that you're killing it, if the numbers bolster your ability to say this is the best economy of all time, you would put those numbers out there as quickly as you could. So Trump is canceling it all because he's afraid of what the numbers will say. It's a total panic. But it is looking more and more like what we expect and have become accustomed to from overtly dictatorial, autocratic authoritarian regimes. Hey, you want to see a terrible use of your tax dollars and my tax dollars. Look no further than Reagan Airport. What on earth is going on here? If you are watching rather than just listening today, you see on your screen, Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. You see a guy named Paul Saladino who, despite being, I believe, a psychiatrist by training, is out there saying seed oils are terrible for you and you should just eat meat. And Trump's Transportation Secretary, Sean Duffy, they are at a chin up bar, a chin up bar which they have placed in DCA Airport. And Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Is, I guess, showing how to make America healthy again. And the sort of thing that they want to see going on at the nation's airports by trying and failing to do a bunch of chin ups. Take a look at this pathetic display.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Yes, sir.

Wait.

[David Pakman]

Now, by the way, I should mention this is so this is like not the point of this. I don't think a single one of these reps counts as a chin up. I don't see rf. RFK is getting basically to his nose. I don't think he's doing a single real chin up here. The continued gaslighting of the American people. But anyway, it's a forehead up. He's really getting his forehead up there. This is all part of the continued, I would argue, gaslighting of the American people. And there's two levels on which the gaslighting is taking place, and they're. Paul Saladino gives RFK a pat on the back and Sean Duffy is loosening his tie. He's going to do some of these and we'll see maybe in a moment whether Sean Duffy gets even a single rep that qualifies. There's two themes here. Number one, when the problems are structural and they refuse to deal with them, they make it about individual behavior. The airports are a mess. Air traffic control is a mess. Planes are delayed and grounded. Well, maybe you can get 10,000 steps in at the airport. Maybe we put a chin up bar in there and make the focus individual health or whatever. That's number one. And then of course number two, it's that there are real problems in our airports that need to be solved and the people that presumably should be solving them are doing chin ups at the airport. Now just out of curiosity, I do want to see, does Sean Duffy do any of these chin ups? Oh, here we go. Let's see if he gets any reps that count. Just out of curiosity, let's take a look. Ok. Those count. It's a chin up in the sense that the chin actually did go over the bar. Listen.

We are in, we are in an environment where we look around the world and we see everybody is laughing at us and Donald Trump is the guy that thinks they are laughing with us. This is metaphorically, but it's also literal. And you look at what's happening with our airports, you look at airports in other countries and American airports, you look at the state and quality even of just our planes. I was on a plane the other day, I don't know how many years old it was, but it was completely trashed, filthy, nothing's function. I mean it's just terrible to bathroom problems. The chargers don't work, they've got no food. The tray table fell off into my lap. And meanwhile it's about chin up. So what's the big idea? Here's Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy telling us what is he planning to do to improve the airport experience for travelers. Take a list pretty wide open on what airports want to ask. Ask for a grant. But it might be, I want to expand the play areas for kids. I want additional nursing pods for nursing mothers. Maybe I want a workout area where people might get some blood flow and doing some pull ups or some step ups in the airport. But it could be any range of things. Maybe you want to work. I know this is tsa, but we're going to help on this as well. Maybe you want to have a different lane for families to get through tsa. Okay, that I agree with. All over the world you land. When I triumphantly made my courageous return to the United Kingdom recently.

He throw can get crazy. All of the international flights show up. I show up there with, with my daughter and my girlfriend was pregnant at the time and I'm looking at this line and going dear God. And then a very nice gentleman, I assume he was, he was a gentleman. He seemed very gentle to me. He says, oh, we have a fast lane for families and I go right through we should really have that. That I agree with. But you know, chin up bars and whatever. We have flights delayed, airports trashed, air traffic control exhausted, ground stops, but go and do some chin ups. Come on, guys. This, this, this is, it's another example. Sort of like the plastic straws. I don't know if you remember when there was a big move to say, let's get rid of the plastic straws. Do your part. Drink through a pasta noodle or, you know, a piece of paper instead of a plastic straw. Do your part. When the vast majority of the carbon footprint, pollution and trash and waste is being generated by industry. And it's just one of these ways to sort of put the focus on the individual. It's all, it's all just, it's whacked out. One more clip. Here is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Talking about how infant formula, no, everybody should be breastfeeding. All of the ingenuity of corporate America, all the resources, all the resourcefulness has.

[Donald Trump]

Not produced an infant formula that is.

[David Pakman]

Superior in nutrition and all the qualities that we want to.

[Donald Trump]

The infant formula that God made, which.

[David Pakman]

Is the infant formula in a mother's breast. There you go. God made breast milk. And as many of you know, we, there are many people who, many women who for one reason or another cannot breast breastfeed. And sometimes it is medical, sometimes it is situational. A lot of you remember after our first daughter was born that my partner had a medical emergency two weeks postpartum, ended up having surgery. As a result, lost the ability to breastfeed just by virtue of being in the hospital for a week. And God made breast milk. And. Give me a break. This is just going to make people feel bad. And this is where the focus is. We've got structural problems that need to be fixed. And we've got Sean Duffy talking about chin ups and we've got RFK Jr talking about God's milk. Really whacked out stuff. And this is partially why the world is laughing at us, but also crying because it's so embarrassing and terrible. I predicted yesterday that after Marjorie Taylor Greene went on 60 Minutes and said that behind his back, Republicans are laughing at Donald Trump, I predict that Donald Trump would absolutely lose his mind and be wildly triggered. And he did. I'll remind you what Marjorie Taylor Greene said on 60 Minutes and then we did get Donald Trump's reaction to behind the Scenes. Do they talk differently?

[Caroline Levitt]

Yes.

[David Pakman]

How?

[Caroline Levitt]

Oh, it's, it would shock people.

[Donald Trump]

Well, let's shock people.

[Caroline Levitt]

Okay. I watch many of my colleagues go from making fun of him, making fun of how he talks, making fun of me constantly for supporting him to when he won the primary in 2024. They all started.

Excuse my language, Leslie kissing his ass and decided to put on a MAGA hat for the first time.

[David Pakman]

So I predicted that this would be a wild trigger to Donald Trump. And it won. It was. In comes Donald Trump with a wall of text on Truth Social Central where he says, quote, the only reason Marjorie Trader Brown went bad is that she was jilted by the President of the United States. Certainly not the first time she has been jilted. Too much work, not enough time, and her ideas are now really bad. She sort of reminds me of a rotten apple. Marjorie is not America first or MAGA because nobody could have changed her views so fast and her new views are those of a very dumb person. That was proven last night when washed up Trump hating 60 Minutes correspondent Leslie Stahl, who still owes me an apology from when she attacked me on the show with serious conviction that Hunter Biden's laptop from hell was produced by Russia, not Hunter himself. Totally proven wrong, interviewed a very poorly prepared trader who in her confusion made many really stupid statements. My real problem with the show, however, wasn't the low IQ trader, and it was that the new ownership of 60 Minutes, Paramount would allow a show like this to air. They are no better than the old ownership who just paid me millions of dollars for fake reporting about your favorite president, me. Since they bought it, 60 Minutes has actually gotten worse. Oh well, far worse things can happen. P.S. i hereby demand a complete and total apology, though far too late to be meaningful, From Leslie Stalin, 60 Minutes for her incorrect and libelous statements about Hunter's laptop. Hunter's laptop. You know, Trump demanding a an apology from CBS for that is pretty rich. There's a couple different stories here. Number one, yes, Marjorie Taylor Greene predictably triggered Donald Trump. One of Donald Trump's greatest insecurities is that people don't like him. And this is common, in fact, for a lot of authoritarians. And Trump is desperate to be liked. Marjorie not only doesn't like him anymore, I guess, but is pointing out that a lot of Republicans laugh at him behind his back. And that is one of the greatest Achilles heels or Achilles tendons of people like Donald Trump. That's number one. Number two, the MAGA civil war is undeniably present and growing, but the question is whether Republicans are finally going to drop Trump like a bad habit in advance of the 2026 midterms or not. If it's Mere, it's not. If you're hoping that it'll be an ethical calculation from Republicans, it won't be. Republicans are going to look as we approach 2026 now only 11 months, not even 10 plus months away. Can you believe that? And they are going to say, is aligning with Trump or distancing from Trump better for me in terms of getting elected or reelected in 2026? That's what it will come to. But maybe for the first time in a very long time in American politics, denouncing Trump may actually be better for them. And that's all that it's going to hinge on. And so you've got the MAGA civil war situation. And then number three, as usual, Donald Trump with his thinly veiled threats against media, a totally Trump friendly parent conglomerate now owns 60 Minutes. And Trump still says they got to be careful. You know, worse things can happen, they'd better apologize. And, and that is theme number three. And we're going to see this later as Donald Trump calls a reporter obnoxious. Go after the media when they say anything you don't like, even if it's simply in an interview format where a guest says something you don't like. Terrifying, dystopian authoritarianism.

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[Caroline Levitt]

I'm Kara from Lindell tv. Kara Cash Nova I'm not Fake news, just so you know. And everybody's talking about the pipe bomber over the weekend. The suspect that was taken into custody. I reported on Biden's kangaroo court for four years and I this is is an important question to me. Everyone knows that J6 was a Fed's direction to set you and your supporters up. So my question is, what's your gut instinct about the new pipe bomber suspect taken into custody?

[David Pakman]

Notice that Trump nods when the reporter suggests that the January six riots were set up by the Fed. That's what she means by a Fed direction. Trump was in charge of the Fed at that point in time in the sense that Trump had his FBI director in there. It's all just crazy conspiracy. But Trump Nods.

[Caroline Levitt]

Does your instinct tell you that he acted alone? And also, Mr. President, how do you feel about the lead prosecutor on the pipe bomber case? Jocelyn Balancing is the same prosecutor that allegedly acts the day six or to lie to frame you for J6 when you did nothing wrong. What are your thoughts?

[Donald Trump]

Well, thank you. I really appreciate that question is sort of a statement and I appreciate it very much. Jocelyn is being looked at. They all have to be looked at. What they're doing is so bad. This was a whole Democrat hoax. The whole thing was a Democrat.

[David Pakman]

And Trump really appreciates statements from reporters when they are favorable to him, of course. Trump being asked, should we grow all of our own produce in the United States even if it costs a little bit more? Trump knows nothing about this topic and answers in a way that reminds us he knows nothing and talks about little delicacy produce.

[Caroline Levitt]

You spoke about soybeans and how the quality here in the United States obviously is a lot better.

[Donald Trump]

That's what I heard.

[David Pakman]

Yeah.

[Caroline Levitt]

Is the default of this administration because that's an issue, I understand with root vegetables, citrus as well. Is the default of this administration that even if it's more, a little bit more expensive, homegrown, you will choose homegrown over cheaper produce abroad.

[Donald Trump]

I like homegrown. You know, some things we can't grow because we don't have the heat. There are some things, you know, little delicacies, or maybe not such delicacies, but they grow better in warmer climates, very warm climates, actually. But for the most part, I like home.

[David Pakman]

There you go. What on earth is he talking about? There's little delicacies. Now, Trump knows very little about this. This is an issue of major significance. There are many things that the US can grow, no problem. You know, lettuce, apple, potatoes, onions, berries. There are some things you need tropical heat for. He's right about that. Other than, you know, in some cases, other than Hawaii, there is little opportunity for that in the United States. But there is a question of why do we import produce anyway, even if you could grow it in the United States and labor is cheaper abroad, so there are lots of imported fruits and vegetables that cost much less. American farms have high labor costs. Now, you could take the position, let's pay the higher labor costs. Let's employ people at something closer to a fair wage rather than what is paid abroad. Will pay more. Will pay more, certainly. But it's worth it. And if that is what, what the administration is saying, then they should be able to articulate it. Trump doesn't really know he doesn't really understand anything. The other aspect of this is that homegrown produce is not always more expensive. There are sometimes local can be cheaper depending on the specifics and how far it is to travel to get to where people are actually buying it. But as a general principle, domestic produce for all products that can be grown here would cost significantly more. Now, Donald Trump got very bored at this meeting and he wanted it all sped up after Scott Besant read in the most just boring way that only Scott Bessant can do a statement. Trump goes, we got to go faster here. Trump's getting bored. Grandpa needs a nap. And an extended and enhanced much needed relief for the punishing death tax given.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Family farm greater certainty as they plan.

[Donald Trump]

For the next generation.

[David Pakman]

Mr. President, thank you for putting America first. By putting your farmers first, Trump barely awake. Pro growth, pro pharma agenda. You're ushering in a new golden age of American agriculture. And treasurer is proud to help in this.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you, Scott. You know what we'll do? We're going to go a little faster because the last meeting we had was three hours. We're the most transparent group. So if we can go faster, it'd be great. And then we'll take some questions from.

[David Pakman]

Please go faster. Trump is getting bored. He needs to go and take a nap now. Then it got really dicey with a reporter. You may recall that just days ago Trump said, we are going to release any video we have of this now infamous strike on an alleged narco trafficking boat from Venezuela of the, of the double tap strike. That's what Trump said. About nine days, six days ago, Trump is asked, are you going to release the full video? And Trump attacks the reporter. Totally fine with that. Releasing the full video.

[Donald Trump]

Didn't I just tell you that you said that it was the obnoxious reporter in the whole place? Let me just tell you, you are an obnoxious, a terrible, actually a terrible reporter. And it's always the same thing with you. I told you, whatever Pete Hanks said wants to do is okay with me.

[David Pakman]

The problem is, first of all, that Trump's instinct is always to attack the press. Always, always, always. But flashback to December 3rd, just six days ago, and Trump said, whatever we have, whatever video we have, we will release.

[Donald Trump]

It. We never heard of it. That's pretty good.

[Caroline Levitt]

You release video of that from first boat strike on September 2nd, but not the second video. Will you release video of that strike so that the American people can see for themselves?

[Donald Trump]

I don't know what they have, but whatever they have would certainly release. No problem.

[David Pakman]

There you go. Well, that has changed very much. Suddenly he's not saying whatever we have will release. He's attacking the reporter. I wonder why all of a sudden. And rampant allegations of a cover up. We'll delve into that more really deserves its own evaluation. And then finally, Donald Trump saying prices are down. Listen carefully to what he says. And then I have a question for you about this.

[Donald Trump]

Well, I think the prices are going to be going down already. I mean, the prices are way down. We brought prices way down from what it was. We inherited high prices. We inherited the biggest inflation in the history of our country. That means prices going up. And we brought it down very substantially. Now inflation is essentially gone.

[David Pakman]

So Trump says they have brought prices down. And as I'm sure you know by now, because I've said it so many times on the show, if inflation is more than zero, prices are going up. Here's my question to you. Do you think Trump doesn't realize that prices have continued to go up or do you think he knows it and he's lying because he assumes his followers don't know that? Because the only way for prices to come down would be deflation. I would need to come to you and say, ladies and gentlemen of my audience, ladies and gentlemen, inflation is minus 2%. And then we would say, okay, prices are going down. Probably wages would also be going down and employment would be, would be suffering. But that's a different story. Does Trump realize he, he's lying and he's doing it because he thinks his followers are too dumb to know the difference? Or is Trump the one who's confused about inflation? Let me know what you think. The farmers are now getting crushed and the administration has a plan to bail them out. And as usual, Donald Trump wants to be praised. He wants the farmers on their knees because Trump is trying to partially put out a fire that he set in the first place by destroying markets for our farmers and ranchers with the tariffs. Trump announcing we've got a bailout plan. And as usual, you can tell he doesn't really even understand it. Socialism for farmers is here.

[Donald Trump]

I'm delighted to announce this afternoon that the United States will be taking a small portion of the hundreds of billions of dollars we receive in tariff tariffs. We are making a lot of money from countries that took advantage of us for years. They took advantage of us.

[David Pakman]

Remember that it's American companies that pay the tariffs. It's American money, not Chinese money that will be used for this bailout.

[Donald Trump]

Nobody's ever Seen, our deficits are way down because of tariffs, I guess because of the election. Because without the election, you wouldn't have tariffs. You'd be sitting here looking, losing your shirt. But we're taking in billions. We're really taking in trillions of dollars if you think about it, Scott, because the real numbers, you know, when you think of all the money being poured.

[David Pakman]

Into the country for none of this, just this couldn't be further from the.

[Donald Trump]

Truth for new auto plants and all of the other things. I so what we're doing is we're taking a relatively small portion of that and we're going to be giving and providing it to the farmers in economic assistance. And we love our farmers. And as you know, the farmers like me because, you know, based on, based on voting trends, you could call it voting trends or anything else, but they're great people. They're the backbone of our country. So we're going to use that money to provide $12 billion in economic assistance to American farmers. 12 billion is a lot of money. Meryl, what do you think? Peanuts for you though, right?

[David Pakman]

So you might get the sense that Trump has some idea what the plan is. He doesn't. That becomes clear as we go forward. During this, Trump brought in an ass kissing farmer to sit next to him to just talk about how awesome Trump is and how great Trump is. And this is really pathetic, especially because we know that farmers have really soured.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

On Trump story at night, putting him to bed and he said, daddy, I, I don't want Santa Claus to come to our house for Christmas. I want President Trump.

[David Pakman]

I would really be concerned about what sort of parenting is going on if that's what the kid wants.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

And I think, Mr. Trump, I think you brought, I think you brought Christmas to farmers with this bridge payment, we'll be able to farm farm another year. Help us get by.

It's such an honor to be here with you.

[David Pakman]

Yeah. Brought in as the ass kissing farmer. The truth, of course, and we've played dozens of the clips, is that farmers are disgusted with what Trump has done. And then as I mentioned, Donald Trump confused about his own plan. Brooke Rollins, the Secretary of Agriculture, explains the plan. Trump gets into a little disagreement with her about how much money is it? Is it 11 billion or is it 12 billion?

[Caroline Levitt]

So as the President said, we are very pleased to announce that today we.

[David Pakman]

Are going to be effectuating an $11.

[Caroline Levitt]

Billion trade by not trade, but bridge.

[David Pakman]

Payment to our farmers.

[Caroline Levitt]

The money will move by February 28th of 2026, but by the end of this month. So just in the next couple of weeks, every farmer that is able to.

[David Pakman]

Apply for it will know exactly what.

[Caroline Levitt]

That number looks like. So as you are going to your lender, as you are, you are working to ensure and understanding what you can plant for next year, you will have that number in hand.

[David Pakman]

And we will continue to talk to.

[Caroline Levitt]

Our farmers, continue to understand exactly what.

[David Pakman]

This looks like and what is necessary. We have final thing I'll say is 12 billion.

[Caroline Levitt]

Well, we are holding 1 billion back. So today we are announcing 11 billion. We are holding 1 billion back just to ensure that we are covering. So today's announcement.

[David Pakman]

There you go. So Trump confused about his own bailout, which, by the way, isn't this the socialism and communism and Marxism that Trump told us to fear. But he needs to be praised for this. If Biden were doing it, they would say, off with his head. As usual, Trump seems to be the last one to know what they're doing. And then Trump's final brilliant idea has to do with taking all environmental restrictions off of equipment, farming equipment manufacturers.

[Donald Trump]

We're going to also give the tractor companies, John Deere and all of the companies that make the equipment. We're going to take off a lot of the environmental restrictions that they have on machinery. It's ridiculous, I know, because I buy a lot of that machinery for different, A lot of big clubs with, you know, hundreds, thousands of acres. And I buy a lot of stuff and you buy, buy it. It's got so much equipment on it for the environmental. It doesn't do anything except it makes the equipment much more expensive and much more complicated to work, and it's not as good as the old days. And we're going to take a lot of that nonsense off of the equipment, which is going to reduce. And we're going to do it. And we're going to say, you're going to reduce the prices. We're not going to do it. And they're not going to reduce. They're going to have to reduce their prices.

[David Pakman]

There you go. And of course, Trump sort of catches himself. He kind of gives away the game. He goes, the reason that these products have become so expensive is because of all of the environmental requirements placed on John Deere and Kubota and all these companies that make equipment. So we're going to tell them they don't have to do that anymore. Take it all off. And by the way, we're also going to force them to reduce prices, because Trump intuitively knows that's not actually why the equipment costs what it costs, the equipment costs what it costs, because we have inflation in this country and inflation continues. And we also have relatively modest regulations, safety regulations on this equipment, so that hopefully fewer people will end up getting hurt with these large pieces of machinery. So Trump's combination of confusion, anger that other people are speaking and disdain that not everybody is down on their knees praying at the altar of Trump leads to not only really bad ideas, but it leads to continued suffering for the farmers and ranchers. If only there had been some way to prevent this in the first place. Donald Trump has already packed his second term cabinet with loyalists. He's threatened deportation as political punishment. He's expanded executive authority in ways we have not seen in modern history. These are real changes that are happening right now. And what's even more alarming is that a lot of the media is either glossing over the worst of it or they're reframing it so it all sounds a little more palatable. And that is why I use Ground News. This is a news comparison tool. Doesn't just feed you headlines, it shows you. Here's how different outlets, left, right, center are covering the same story. And this is one of the few, few tools I know of that can really help you detect the political spin, the bias catch stories that your usual sources might downplay or not cover at all on everything from immigration policy to economic shifts. If you want to get a bigger picture, a broader picture of what's being reported, Ground News is an invaluable source to keep you informed. And Ground News is offering my audience 40% off their top tier Vantage plan. You'll only pay five bucks a month. Go to ground.news/pacman or enter the code Pacman in the app to get started. The link is in the description. The truth is that most underwear wasn't designed with comfort in mind. Sheath underwear actually was, and the difference will immediately hit you as you put them on for the first time. Instead of letting everything mashed together like traditional underwear, Sheath is designed with dual front pouches that separate and support you throughout the day. It's breathable, soft, built to keep you dry. No more sticking, no awkward adjustments, no discomfort. It sounds too good to be true, but once you try Sheath, you're going to understand it is difficult to go back. I've heard from so many people they were skeptical and then they were sold after their first pair. I was one of those people. It is not just for men. She has an excellent women's line too, all with the same focus on comfort and quality Perfect for the holidays. If you're looking for a gift, go to sheath underwear.com/pacman and get 20% off with code PACMAN. The link is in the description. It is great to have back on the program today. Senator Mark Kelly representing Arizona. Senator, great to have you on. You know, there are so many places we could start in the context of the last two to three weeks. The video you participated in with five of your colleagues reminding members of the armed forces, remember, if you receive illegal orders, it is your duty to say, we are not going to do that. The threats, the targeting from Donald Trump and the people around him, just on a, on a personal level, are the threats at this point as intense as they've ever been? How are you, how are you dealing with that on a logistical level?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, yeah, when the arguably the most powerful man in the world, who has a huge following with a lot of supporters out there, says that I should be hanged, executed for something I said, by the way, something that was true and lawful and in not only the Uniform Code of Military justice, but, you know, in our rules of, you know, armed conflict.

When he says that I should be executed, it does result in more threats, not only to me, but to my family as well.

[David Pakman]

Is it making you skittish about, like, we covered the town hall that you did, which was really interesting. Are you, are you thinking about pulling back at all?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

No, of course not. If I, if I was to take a step back because of Donald Trump's intimidation and DoD and DOJ's intimidation of me, that diminishes everybody's First Amendment rights. You know, I said something he didn't like. He wanted to shut me up, and he's going to use the full force of the US Government to try to do that. But I'm not going to back down from him or anybody else. I've served this country for decades. I fought in combat. I flew into space on the space shuttle four times working at NASA. I've given a lot to this country, and so is my wife. She nearly lost her life serving her country, speaking with her constituents in a rather heightened.

Political climate, and she got shot in the head and nearly died. Gabby and I are not ones to back down from this guy or anybody else.

[David Pakman]

I want to delve in a little bit to the discussion about legal versus illegal orders. You know, on the one hand, why did you feel the need to remind troops about that responsibility? On the other hand, when some of your colleagues have been asked, have there been any illegal orders issued by Trump or people around Him. So far, there's been, at least as far as I've seen, a hesitation to say yes. Here's the three illegal orders that should have been refused. Although now the context of this double tap attack on this alleged narco trafficking boat is raising questions about that. But talk a little bit about the timing. Like, why was that a reminder you felt the troops needed?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, it's a number of things. So we know who Donald Trump is and we have a record of what he has said in the past. If you go back to 2016, he was on a debate stage. This was before he was president. So he's running for president the first time. And he says that the US Military should be killing the family members of terrorists. Hey, nobody likes terrorists, right? And in certain circumstances, we kill terrorists. I get that. But women and children President, you know, candidate Donald Trump said we should kill women and children. Brett Baer, Fox News said, well, the military is not going to carry that out because that would be legal. Donald Trump's response was, the military will not refuse my orders. Like, somehow he's above the law and he has so much influence over members of the military that there is not a circumstance where they would refuse him, even if it was illegal. Then later, as president, he talked about shooting protesters, US Citizens who are protesting in the legs. Clearly, that would be illegal for the US Military to do that. It didn't happen. He's more recently talked about sending US Troops into more cities and they could use those cities for training.

Now, I mean, did that get as much attention as I thought it should have received? No.

[David Pakman]

No.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

But what he is saying is he wants the United States military, the army, the Marine Corps, to train on U.S. citizens. That's, that's unprecedented. So you combine all that stuff and.

With what he has said recently, that we're just gonna. We're just gonna kill people. You know, when asked about certain things, we're just going to kill people. No authorization of military force, no going to Congress. No, hey, it's in my authority to conduct kinetic strikes on legal targets. Donald Trump from the White House says, we're just going to kill people. And then he appoints the most unqualified Secretary of defense that our country has ever seen. It's not debatable. This guy is unqualified for this job. And he brings all the admirals and generals and senior enlisted in, and he runs around on a stage talking about lethality and hunting, hunting and killing people and disparages the rules of engagement like they're a joke. Those rules of Engagement are not only to protect our moral authority as the United States of America that we do not violate the law. It's also there to protect members of the military. So myself and others, we. I'm concerned for the guys in the military that are trying to do a hard job. I've done this job before. It's. It can be challenging under the best of circumstances. And you put these two jokers in charge and they could put members of the military in a really difficult position.

So we thought it was the appropriate thing to do at the appropriate time, like this was the right time to do it before something bad happens. Now this has become a larger conversation because of Venezuela and a second strike on survivors of a first strike and whether or not that was a legal thing to do.

[David Pakman]

You know, I was on CNN the other day and one of my co panelists was diving deep as to the legal definition of a shipwreck, sort of suggesting that that is what the legality hinges on. I'm not a lawyer, but my opinion is that defining exactly what we mean by shipwreck is not what the legality of that second strike actually depends on. Can you shed any light onto that?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, I haven't seen the video yet. I hope to. We need to have hearings. I think we should have hearings in the skiff and also public hearings. I think people should be under oath. I think the video should be released. I also think the legal justification for doing any of this should be released as well. I've read it.

There's no reason why the American public shouldn't be able to see it. They should be able to see the video. I mean, they've released all the other videos. What is so sensitive about this one? Well, I think we know what. Why they don't want to release it. Because my understanding is it shows two guys on a boat that's been cut in half and flipped over. I mean, if that's not shipwrecked, you know, I don't know what is.

One of my Republican colleagues talked about, well, they were trying to push it, flip it over. I've got a degree in marine engineering. I've taken naval architecture classes before. If they would have successfully flipped that boat over, probably would have sunk.

If that's not being shipwrecked, you know, I mean, you know, what is. And then.

The. The Department of Defense decided that these two individuals, you know, should be killed. That brings up a lot of questions like what is the legality of doing that? This is the example that is used in the manual of war is the shipwrecked example as something that is a illegal order.

But I don't want to prejudge and say that was illegal. I mean, we're going to. We're going to see. There should be. There should be an investigation. The inspectors general of the Department of Defense should look into this.

[David Pakman]

What is your sense of the significance of the growing double standards that exist on a lot of these things? And to give you a little bit of context, there was a time where, while I disagreed with many Republicans on policy, if you expose the double standard, they would sort of at least take that seriously and engage with you on it. We have video of Pete Hegseth in 2016 saying essentially the same thing that you and your five colleagues say in the video about refusing illegal orders. It gets no coverage. None of their voters seem to care. Donald Trump certainly doesn't care what happened. That made consistency completely irrelevant at this point.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, I think Donald Trump happened.

[David Pakman]

Hmm.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

You know, people don't want to cross them. I mean, if they might care about consistency, they might care about the rule of law. When I say they, you know, my Republican colleagues. Yeah, but they do not want to cross this president. There are consequences for crossing this president. There. There are consequences for saying something that he does not agree with, that he doesn't like. I said something he didn't like, and he said I should be killed for it.

So they. They understand that. They understand who he is. They understand the consequences to their careers or even their safety.

You know, they understand the threats. I mean, were there ever threats before during confirmation processes for people that. I can't think of one. Pete Hegseth was being confirmed there were threats against members of Congress.

[David Pakman]

Senator, last thing I want to ask you about. In your town hall that you recently did, you received some questions about sort of consequences and the idea of, OK, Democrats, maybe take the House in 2026, but then. Then what? Right. In the sense of, yes, now controlling the purse strings does stop Trump's agenda dead in the water. There's the possibility of investigations and really, you know, putting into the muck and mire for the last two years of this administration in a way that maybe will be uncomfortable for them. I don't know. But to a lot of people in my audience that's not really feeling like consequences. What. What is possible. And what would you actually like to see in terms of consequences for everything that's happened?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Well, there needs to be oversight and accountability, and there hasn't been that for this administration. You know, maybe we'll see something here on these Venezuelan boat strikes. I, I've talked to the, you know, some of the Republicans on the Armed Services Committee about this and they've got a lot of questions as well. And they seem to understand that we need to provide.

The accountability that we're in, the oversight that we're supposed to provide as members of Congress.

After 2026, then we'll have the ability to subpoena people and bring them up to Capitol Hill and question them under oath and get documents and release documents and provide some oversight to this administration, which I believe is just sorely needed. I mean, we have a guy in the White House that is ripping off the American people, including many of his supporters. I mean, who buys Trump meat and Trump wine and Trump guns and Trump sneakers and Trump watches. Those are the people that wear the red hats. I actually feel really bad for them. Even though they don't vote for me, I still represent a lot of these folks. And this president is ripping them off. And it gets worse with Meme coins where they run up, his family runs up the price of a Meme coin and then they sell all of their holdings and hard working people get wiped out. That has happened. People lose their retirement. Donald Trump supporters that wear the MAGA hat is getting ripped off by this president and now he wants $230 million from the Treasury. Taxpayer money he wants to stuff in his giant pockets. And it's wrong. And if Democrats win back the House and, or the Senate, we can do things to stop that from happening.

It's corruption as we have never seen in this country before. And the President doesn't even care. I mean, Richard Nixon used to do this kind of stuff. You know, some of this stuff like behind closed doors and quietly.

[David Pakman]

Yeah.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Donald Trump does it out in the open.

So that, that's why this next election matters so much. And then we'll see what happens in 2028. I mean, we've got a, you know, we've got to, we've got to replace this unethical behavior.

And we've got to get somebody in the White House that has some, you know, sense of what this country is and cares about the Constitution. I don't think Donald Trump even understands what is in the Constitution. I imagine he's probably never even read the thing.

[David Pakman]

Despite, despite a copy of it being up on the wall of his office at this point, which is, which is a whole other story. Yeah, no, I feel bad for the people that, that have been conned as well. Senator, we are going to be following all of this including the fallout from from the strikes. We've been speaking with Senator Mark Kelly who represents the state of Arizona. Always appreciate your time.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Thank you for having me on.

[David Pakman]

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[Caroline Levitt]

Another huge win for our farmers following his successful meeting with President Xi Xi in South Korea, where President Trump convinced President Xi to continue purchasing or begin purchasing again, American soybeans, which is something China wasn't doing under the last administration because they had no respect for our President Biden or now most of you.

[David Pakman]

If you watch this show, if you listen to the podcast, you know that that's a lie. Soybean sales to China persisted during the Biden administration, and they persisted during the first few months of this Trump administration. And then Trump dumped the tariffs on China and soybean exports to China went to zero. Chinese export. Chinese imports of soybeans remained level. They're just now getting them from other countries. And meanwhile, what Donald Trump has convinced President Xi to do is after reducing exports of soybeans to zero with the tariffs, Trump has convinced China to start importing a little bit of soybean way less than what they used to do. And much of it is a purchase order, as Scott Besant likes to say, maybe for 20, 26, I guess. So she is just straight up lying. When the truth can't be spun in any way to make you look good, you just make it up. Newsmax host.

To Caroline Levitt says that Donald Trump's farm bailout is funded by tax dollars. Rather not funded by tax dollars, but funded by tariffs. The idea, of course, as well, the tariff money that we're giving to the farmers for the bailout, it's coming from other countries. Of course, we all know that that's not true. Caroline.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

On the topic of affordability, I know.

[David Pakman]

One of the things that upsets a lot of folks is the price of groceries. And yesterday, President Trump, Trump announced a $9 billion aid package to support our farmers, strengthen the agriculture industry. And that's not just helping our farmers. It will pass down to people at the grocery store, this is a big deal. And it's also not funded by tax dollars. It's funded by tariffs.

[Caroline Levitt]

That's right, yes. Yesterday here at the White House, President Trump with met with a group of great farmers from around the country and announced the $12 billion in relief for them, again funded.

[David Pakman]

The Host says it's 9 billion. Caroline says it's 12 billion. Trump thought it was 12 billion, but Brooklyn Rollins said it's 11 billion. What's a few billion between friends, Right? But the point here is, I'm so sorry to have to remind you of this, Caroline. Tariffs are import taxes paid by the importer. If you are ABC company and you import tariffs, steel, you pay the tariff, not the country or the company that is sending you the steel. They are just lying because they've got nothing left. Big focus over the last 48 hours, which tells us they know how bad it's getting on. Blaming Biden in general for the economy. They both want you to believe everything's awesome, but we're working on it because we were handed such a terrible economy from Joe Biden. Here she is putting that message out on Newsmax this morning.

[Caroline Levitt]

Gas prices are at their lowest point right now than they have been in five years. And we do expect them to continue to decline as long as President Trump is here to drill, baby, drill. So all of these actions are actions President Trump took to build the greatest economy in history in his first term. It is working. It takes time because as you pointed out, Mark, President Trump left President Biden left President Trump with an absolute economic mess.

[David Pakman]

Now, a couple things we are going to do, more evaluation of this Biden claim. She says casually that gas prices are as low as they have been in five years. A very deceptive claim. First of all, here's a five year chart of gas prices and you see a six, six month period during which they were lower. You see the spike in 2022 and then otherwise there have been many periods of gas prices being about as low as they are right now. And not to mention that Trump promised to bring them down and he hasn't. She then went from Newsmax to Fox News and on Fox News she tries the exact same claim. The economy was terrible because of Biden when we took over. Caroline, this is the president at his best when he's on the road talking with the American people. What can we anticipate him terrible telling the folks on the road?

[Caroline Levitt]

Sure. Well, we greatly look forward to going to Northeast Pennsylvania tonight. And President Trump is going to give A positive, economic focused speech where he talks about all that he and his team has done to provide bigger paychecks and lower prices for the American people. And don't forget, a year ago, President Trump inherited the worst inflation, inflation crisis in modern American history from the Biden administration.

[David Pakman]

Now remember that inflation was between two and a half and three when Trump took over. And it has bounced between two and a half and three since Donald Trump took over. The truth of the Biden economy. I'll give you everything, right? I won't hold back the bad stuff. Job creation very strong under Biden. Unemployment really low under Biden. Solid GDP growth. Real incomes, meaning wages relative to inflation went up. Household prosperity went up. On average, more insured Americans. The number of people without health insurance declined while Biden was president. No recession as inflation came down. Ok, that's pretty good. Now, no economy is perfect. Even though inflation came down under Biden, it was still positive. Prices still went up and that strained household budgets. That's a reality. Growth was uneven in the sense that it was up and down depending on the quarter. And not everybody benefited equally. There is inequality in our economy. High cost of living continued to plague many Americans. There were trade offs with a lot of these different stimulus policies. All right, so, you know, it was a mixed bag, but a pretty, pretty solid economy under Biden. Certainly not the worst economy in the world, as she wants you to believe. And then finally, Caroline Levitt dodges a question about are we going to get the video of the boat attack or aren't we?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Talk about what?

[David Pakman]

Secretary of War Pete Hegseth will be briefing the Gang of Eight, select House, House leaders as well as Senate about what's going on with Venezuela. And they have. So of course there's this pressure to release the double tap, the second hit on that drug boat. And ultimately the president says it's up to the Secretary of War whether he should do it or not. So your thoughts about releasing that tape?

[Caroline Levitt]

Well, how refreshing. Now we have a commander in chief who trusts our Secretary of War and trusts Pentagon leadership to do the right thing by our war fighters. And I think it speaks to the depravity of the Democrat Depravity Party that they have stooped so low. They are attacking our military leadership. They are attacking the brave men and women who conducted these strikes well within the law, following the orders from their commander in chief. And let's not forget, these are drug boats. These are narco terrorists. And in 2024.

[David Pakman]

Oh, God, she's so pathetic. She doesn't answer the question, okay, she doesn't answer whether Trump is going to release the video. After on December 3, he said, yes, I'm going to release the video. It's getting harder and harder for Caroline Levitt to even spin. She's now relegated simply to lying because the truth would be too damaging to this administration. All right. Yesterday I was invited to join Piers Morgan tomorrow or Thursday to be on a panel to discuss and evaluate Piers's blockbuster multi hour interview with white supremacist Nick Fuentes. And I said, no, I am not going to participate in the normalization of Nick Fuentes and the idea of a panel to discuss. Well, he made a lot of good points, but blah, blah, blah. I'm not going to participate in that. Now there were a couple of interesting revelations from this interview. Now you might say, well, David, if you're not going to participate, it. But you're playing clips. Yeah, this is my show and I am analyzing this from the standpoint of should people be interviewing this guy? Yes. No. What about Piers Morgan? What are the implications of this? But I'm not going to then go on and pretend like we're just talking about Nick's views in a panel format as if this is normal stuff. Incredible moment during this interview, quite frankly, which is so telling to me about this entire Nick Fuentes thing.

It is. There is speculation that Nick Fuentes is gay despite being homophobic. I don't know the truth about that. But Piers asks him about it and then he asks him whether he is ever engaged in sexual intercourse. And it was quite a remarkable exchange. Take a look.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Just to clear up one of the many theories about you. I have no idea what the answer is and you haven't got to answer, but are you actually attracted to women? I am attracted to women. You're not gay? No. But I will say that women are very difficult to be around. Okay, so there's that. And do you think they should have the right to vote? I do not. No, absolutely not. They should stay at home.

Well, yeah, absolutely. See, basically you're just a misogynist old dinosaur, aren't you, for a young guy? I mean, I know I'm the boomer. I know I'm the boomer here, but actually you're a 27 year old dinosaur, aren't you? Aren't you, Nick Fuentes? All women.

[David Pakman]

I am.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

All women are annoying. All women grow old. They all get fat. Says the guy. Have you ever had sex?

[David Pakman]

No, absolutely not. Wow.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Says the guy who's never got laid.

[David Pakman]

So it is interesting. I Believe that this is highly, highly relevant. Ok. Fuentes is an incel. He's involuntarily celibate in the sense that he says, I am attracted to women, but they're so difficult to be around. I have never had sex. He's almost 30 years old. Okay. I think that that is not an aside. I believe that if we look at radicalization and extremism in young men, the fact that he is unable to find any women that he. And I know a lot of you are going to say, david, the real damn reason is that he's gay. And that may be the case. I know that that is a widespread thing, and at one point there were. I don't follow this stuff closely enough, but there were claims that. That there were known men that he had been in relationships with. But if for a second, we believe, yes, this is a man who is. He's attracted to women. Presumably he would like to have sex with women, but he finds women so difficult to be around, he hasn't been able to do it. The fact that he is an incel, I think is actually highly relevant to the bigger picture of this radicalization and extremism. Couple other. Just quick moments here, they talk about whether joking about the Holocaust is appropriate. You know, that one was a joke.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

But do you want to talk seriously about the Holocaust? Yeah, I do, actually. I do, because I just find it extraordinary that you would think the Holocaust could ever be something that we could joke about.

[David Pakman]

Why?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

Too soon?

Is it too soon to make jokes?

[David Pakman]

All right, and then one more clip where Fuentes explains why he thinks Hitler and Nazis are cool.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

A prominent conservative in America has to say about Adolf Hitler. And what do you mean by Hitler is very fucking cool? Because I think he's very fucking a monster.

And that's a clip. I think he's very fucking a monster.

[David Pakman]

Do you hear yourself? I mean, can we all grow up?

[Senator Mark Kelly]

I do. Can we all grow up?

He murdered 12 million people. What is very fucking cool about that? Tell me. The edits, it's just cool. The uniforms, the parades. It's cool.

[David Pakman]

As a guy, you look at World War II and it's fascinating and it's interesting and it's compelling.

[Senator Mark Kelly]

All right?

[David Pakman]

So I'm not even going to. I think Piers is horrible. I think this is all rage bait and this is completely, completely effing nuts. Okay? But this is.

An invaluable set of insights into Fuentes and his ilk. Incel, presumably would like to be with women, but he can't. Can't can't put it together. Finds this male dominated female Third Reich of uniforms and authoritarianism cool. This is a study in radicalization. There is a very well documented constellation here of psychological and social factors that can take these young isolated men. He's dealing with anger, he's sexually frustrated, he's got a shaky sense of his own identity. And they gravitate toward these extremist symbols like Nazi uniforms and the mythologizing of Hitler. And I don't believe it's because the ideology itself is what's cool. It's because of what it represents to people like Fuentes, who are kind of losers, right? I mean, a 25 year old incel with extremist views is drawn to the Nazi uniforms and Hitler because there's emotional gaps there that it fills. The power and the dominance is. He's weak and rejected. He can't even get a girl, okay? And this militaristic imagery, hierarchy and a sense of meaning and your rank within this depraved system, it provides a fantasy of strength and control that he completely lacks in the real world. He's got identity and belonging, the parades and the, you know, whatever you call them, the flair that the Nazis would wear and it's a part of something bigger. And he feels invisible because remember he, he, he likes girls and he can't even get one to pay attention to him. And it also channels the anger that he feels and it gives you a target. It gives them a target. And whether it's Jews or women or whatever, and the esthetic manipulation of the Third Reich, you know, it was Nazism, if nothing else was engineered to look impressive. With these, the symbols and the order and the spectacle and the marching and all of it, it's supposed to trigger an emotional sort of appeal before critical thinking comes in and he goes, what the hell are these people doing? This is. They're trying to just kill an entire group of people. And so there is so much here about how someone like a Fuentes, rejected by women, which he claims to want.

Sort of in a purgatory of sorts, societally, all of a sudden finds something he connects with emotionally. Incredible. Just, just by no fault of peers, his own. What an insight into the world of extremism. And by the way, we shouldn't be making fun of it. We should be realizing how these people are ending up radicalized and actually trying to do something to prevent young men from falling into it in the first place. We've got a phenomenal bonus show for you today. Sign [e-mail].