3/13/25: Fox & MAGA now admit it will get bad, Tesla protests explode

Summary

The David Pakman Show – Episode Summary Release Date: March 13, 2025

In the March 13, 2025 episode of The David Pakman Show, host David Pakman delves into several critical topics shaping the political and economic landscape of the United States. The episode is structured around four main discussions: FOX News' evolving narrative on President Trump's economic policies, the backlash against Elon Musk's alignment with Trump, President Trump's tumultuous press conference, and an in-depth interview with Democratic Congressman Richie Torres on impending Medicaid cuts. Additionally, Pakman examines the broader implications of tariff policies and their impact on the U.S. economy.

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I. FOX News' Shift in Narrative on Trump's Economic Policies

The episode opens with Pakman addressing a significant development at FOX News. During an interview segment with Trump Press Secretary Caroline Levitt, FOX News host Jackie Heinrich inadvertently reveals a potential shift in the network's stance on President Trump's economic agenda.

• Key Incident: Heinrich suggests that Trump might need to address the nation directly from the Oval Office to explain the short-term economic pain his policies might cause for the sake of long-term benefits.

  "Is it time for the president to do an Oval Office address? Maybe, and try to explain to people that it might be bad for a little while, but it is in fact worth it?" [00:49]

• Levitt’s Response: Levitt maintains that President Trump has been clear about his vision to restore America's manufacturing prowess, emphasizing the nation's market strength, workforce, and domestic resources.

  "I think the president has been incredibly clear, Jackie, on where he stands and what he envisions for the future of America..." [01:23]

Pakman criticizes this narrative shift, highlighting that traditionally, FOX News portrayed Trump's policies as universally beneficial without acknowledging potential drawbacks. The acknowledgment of short-term pain marks a departure from their usual portrayal, suggesting that Fox is trying to preemptively address the negative repercussions of Trump's economic strategies.

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II. Elon Musk and Tesla Protests

Transitioning from political commentary, Pakman discusses the growing public backlash against Elon Musk due to his increasing alignment with the Trump administration.

• Protests Details: Nationwide protests erupted at Tesla showrooms and charging stations, reflecting widespread dissatisfaction with Musk's role as an unelected bureaucrat allied with Trump.

  "Elon Musk's relationship with Trump is sparking backlash for his businesses... Hundreds of people took to the streets." [07:38]

• Public Sentiment: Some Tesla owners are actively participating in the protests by selling their cars, expressing embarrassment over Musk's political affiliations.

  "One ex Tesla owner said, 'I'm sort of embarrassed to be seen in that car now.'" [08:38]

• Trump and Musk’s Response: Pakman notes that Trump and Musk are struggling to manage the fallout, with Trump dismissing the protests as illegal and conspiratorial, while Musk accuses external forces like George Soros of orchestrating them.

  "Musk is now losing his money as people make obvious consumer choices to boycott Tesla." [09:00]

Pakman underscores the irony of MAGA's stance on electric vehicles, given Trump's previous denouncements of EVs. The shift in Musk's political alignment has alienated a significant portion of his consumer base, leading to decreased sales and damaged reputations.

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III. President Trump's Tumultuous Press Conference

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to critiquing President Trump's recent press conference, which Pakman describes as erratic and lacking coherence.

• NATO Session Fiasco: When asked about America's future in NATO, Trump fails to provide a clear affirmative response, instead focusing on past negotiations and current financial contributions.

  "When I first got involved with NATO... If you don't pay, you're delinquent." [17:21]

• Travel Ban Question: Trump evades a direct answer regarding future travel bans, labeling the question as "stupid" and demonstrating apparent confusion.

  "Which countries am I going to target for the next travel ban? Can you believe somebody would ask that question?" [19:21]

• Irish Leader Interaction: In response to a question about his favorite Irish person, Trump awkwardly mentions UFC fighter Conor McGregor, struggling to recall more prominent Irish figures.

  "I can't think of any, but there are so many Irish people I love." [19:58]

• Transgender Comments: The press conference takes a controversial turn when Trump declares, "Everybody is transgender these days," reflecting his ongoing cultural battlegrounds.

  "Everybody transgender. That's all you hear about now." [21:03]

• EU Tariff Announcement: Concluding the press conference, Trump announces new tariffs on European alcoholic products, portraying the EU as a manipulative entity established to exploit the U.S.

  "The globalist Wall Street Journal has no idea what they are doing... We have stupid trade." [24:26]

Pakman criticizes Trump's inability to provide substantive answers, portraying his responses as evasive and self-serving. The press conference is depicted as a marker of Trump's deteriorating public communication skills and strategic coherence.

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IV. Interview with Congressman Richie Torres on Medicaid Cuts

In a compelling segment, Pakman interviews Democratic Congressman Richie Torres from New York's 15th congressional district to discuss the Republican-led budget resolution threatening significant cuts to Medicaid and other social programs.

• Congressman Torres’ Concerns: Torres highlights the dire impact of proposed cuts, emphasizing that 66% of his district is enrolled in Medicaid.

  "More than 72% of the children in New York 15 are covered by Medicaid..." [32:00]

• Republican Budget Resolution: The proposed cuts include up to $880 billion for Medicaid, $330 million for education, and $230 billion for food assistance, all aimed at funding over a trillion dollars in tax cuts for the wealthiest 1%.

  "Republicans are intent on savagely cutting Medicaid... to fund more than a trillion dollars in tax cuts for the top 1%." [33:31]

• Strategic Implications: Torres and Pakman discuss the historical context of the "starve the beast" strategy, where weakening government programs paves the way for privatization and further reduction of federal oversight.

  "The objective of Doge is to cripple the ability of the federal government to govern." [34:12]

• Democratic Response: Torres urges Democrats to leverage their votes to oppose the continuing resolutions proposed by Republicans, emphasizing the critical need to protect the social safety net.

  "Senate Dems have to vote against the continuing resolutions put forward by Republicans." [35:19]

• Party Dynamics: The discussion touches on the challenges Democrats face, including internal risk aversion and the dominance of Trump’s persona within the Republican Party, which hampers effective negotiation and resistance.

  "Republicans are no longer a normal political party. It's become a cult of personality around Donald Trump." [41:12]

Torres paints a stark picture of the potential human cost of these budget cuts, particularly for vulnerable populations reliant on Medicaid for essential services. The conversation underscores the heightened urgency for Democratic leaders to mobilize and counteract the aggressive fiscal policies proposed by Republicans.

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V. Tariffs, Stock Market, and Economic Indicators

Pakman returns to the topic of tariffs and their cascading effects on the U.S. economy, dissecting the intersection of policy decisions and market reactions.

• Economic Repercussions of Tariffs: Tariff implementations under Trump are linked to negative economic indicators such as stock market declines, reduced consumer spending, and decreased hiring in various sectors.

  "Trump's tariff implementations have rapidly led to economic repercussions." [25:35]

• Policy Transmission Lag: Pakman explains the delayed effects of different economic policies, noting that while tariffs impact businesses and consumers quickly, deregulation and monetary policy changes take longer to manifest within the economy.

  "Tax policy, for example, deregulation, it can take months, up to years to show its full effects." [25:35]

• Congressman Navarro’s Insights: In an interview, Congressman Navarro critiques Trump's tariff approach, labeling it as destructive and lacking clear objectives, particularly questioning the rationale behind targeting allies like Canada.

  "What exactly does he want from Canada? Canada has no role... He's just picking a gratuitous fight with one of our closest allies." [46:14]

• Market Sentiment: Pakman observes that the stock market's negative response is a reflection of investors' apprehension about Trump's policies, which are seen as creating uncertainty and instability.

  "The stock market move... Whoa. We just had a very strange, almost full chair collapse." [25:35]

• Potential Recession: The discussion anticipates a possible recession as a direct consequence of Trump's aggressive tariff strategies, questioning whether his administration can pivot to mitigate these economic challenges.

  "If a recession happens under Trump, it's because of the mess Biden left behind... Or it's just an unfortunate transition period." [05:04]

Pakman emphasizes the interconnectedness of policy decisions and economic outcomes, critiquing the short-sightedness of unilateral tariff impositions without strategic economic planning.

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VI. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

As the episode nears its conclusion, Pakman reflects on the broader implications of the day's discussions.

• Economic Accountability: Emphasizing the importance of understanding economic policies, Pakman underscores the necessity for voters to discern who is accountable for economic outcomes, critiquing both Republican and Democratic strategies.

  "Do you ever feel like it's tough to stay focused? I've sometimes struggled with it..." [26:32]

• Call to Action: Pakman encourages listeners to remain informed and engaged, highlighting the significance of consumer choices in shaping market dynamics and holding policymakers accountable.

  "It's capitalism. It's the capitalism that they claim to champion as the number one best way to organize an economy." [08:38]

The episode concludes with Pakman reiterating the importance of vigilance and proactive participation in the political process to safeguard democratic principles and economic stability.

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Notable Quotes:

1. "Is it time for the president to do an Oval Office address? Maybe, and try to explain to people that it might be bad for a little while..." — Jackie Heinrich [00:49]
2. "The objective of Doge is to cripple the ability of the federal government to govern." — Peter Navarro [34:12]
3. "Republicans are no longer a normal political party. It's become a cult of personality around Donald Trump." — Peter Navarro [41:12]
4. "Caroline Levitt: Gasoline is going down because of the massive deregulatory efforts of this president and also the fact that we are delivering on his promise to drill, baby, drill already." [25:28]
5. "We have a deep bench of talent, right? We have legislative leaders like Hakeem Jeffries..." — Peter Navarro [38:17]

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This episode of The David Pakman Show offers a comprehensive analysis of the current political and economic challenges facing the United States, providing listeners with insightful commentary and expert opinions to navigate the complexities of today's governance and policy-making.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Welcome to the show, everybody. FOX News did something incredible yesterday. They let the mask slip during a segment interviewing Trump press Secretary Caroline Levitt. FOX News Jackie Heinrich suggests maybe it's time for Donald Trump to go on tv, sit in the Oval Office, look straight ahead at that camera and tell Americans, my plans are going to cause you some real pain. It'll be worth it. Here's how long it'll last. Here's how good things will be on the other side. But there's going to be some real pain. Check this out. Check out Caroline Levitt's response. Then we'll talk about it.

[Jackie Heinrich]

Caroline, I want to ask you one follow up on this because the American Automotive Policy Council has put out a statement sort of pushing back on this narrative. They said revoking the exemption for Canada and Mexico and extending tariffs to auto parts with steel and aluminum will add significant costs for automakers, suppliers and consumers. You know, steel and aluminum tariffs obviously could have big impacts. Is it time for the president to do an Oval Office address? Maybe, and try to explain to people that it might be bad for a little while, but it is in fact worth it?

[Caroline Levitt]

I think the president has been incredibly clear, Jackie, on where he stands and what he envisions for the future of America, wants to restore this great country as the manufacturing superpower of the world. And we have the ability to do it because we have the best market and we have the best workers and we have plenty of resources right here at home.

[David Pakman]

Translated no, the president is not going to speak to Americans and say, hey, things are going to be tough for a little while. We have to see this for what it is. This is an admission normally Fox News is job is to tell viewers everything under Trump will be wonderful, is wonderful and has been wonderful. Tax cuts for billionaires somehow help the working class. The tariffs are an act of economic genius and unbridled patriotism, not a price hike on American consumers. But Jackie Heinrich here, probably by accident, is acknowledging that Trump's economic agenda is at least going to hurt people in the short term. What does Caroline Levitt, press secretary for Trump, say in response? Nothing. Reassuring. No real denial. The usual spin. And it's sort of funny because when President Biden would talk about investing in infrastructure, making corporations pay their fair share, Fox News would warn all that stuff's going to bring economic doom. And it never happened. The economic doom never showed up. When Trump's own people don't deny that Trump's policies will cause pain of all sorts for the average American person, suddenly it's short term necessary pain for the greater good of the future of the economy. Very different approach. And don't forget that Donald Trump and his allies spent the last four years blaming Joe Biden for every economic challenge, real or imaginary, even if they were economic challenges that Republicans themselves generated. But now that Trump is the one who might be causing this pain and is already causing the pain they lay the groundwork at Fox for, you're going to patriotically suffer through this for the greater good, right? Under Trump's brilliant leadership. So to a degree, and we talked about this yesterday, Fox is trying to get ahead of the seemingly undeniable reality that Donald Trump's economic plans aren't good for average Americans. And they're setting up the expectation that when things go south, you should see yourself as a martyr, as a patriot. Toughing it out. The dot is for the benefit of the billionaires and the corporations. Patriotically tough it out for the greater good. And this wasn't only Caroline Levitt and Jackie Heinrich on FOX yesterday. Let's now look at Peter Navarro. On air yesterday on FOX News, host Will Kaine casually admitted, you know, we, we might have to endure a recession. What's a little recession between friends, right? And he said this in an interview with Peter Navarro, fresh out of jail and Trump lackey Peter Navarro says this is just a transition. It's a difficult transition, but it's just a transition between very bad Biden nomics, during which everything was fine and really great Trump in omics, during which everything is falling off the walls. You've got to see this.

[Peter Navarro]

We are, as we point out and as pointed out by President Trump, perhaps, perhaps going to have to endure a recession. We are going to deal with unpredictability, uncertainty. There will be fluctuations in the market. But there is a presumption that's part of a bigger picture. Peter, help us understand what is the bigger picture for the economy from the administration?

[Will Kaine]

Yeah, great, great question. And let's start looking through one end of the telescope. Through today's data, as you correctly observe, the core rate of inflation has fallen to its lowest level in almost four years. That's huge. Gasoline prices down. We've had mortgage rates down. We've had grocery prices flat. Here's the thing. We're in this, this difficult transition from Biden nomics to, to Trump nomics. What?

[David Pakman]

This is a pivot. A few months ago, these same people were pretending that the Biden economy was a disaster. Inflation was destroying America. Wages were collapsing. The stock market was supposedly on the verge of ruin. Ruin. That Never came. And now that Donald Trump's policies are about to kick in, or already have, depending on which day you asked them and what's going on, suddenly, if a recession comes, it wouldn't be proof of failure. It's part of the process. And Navarro's framing is wild. Difficult transition is a really creative way of saying we are going to go from growing the economy to shrinking it. If the latest GDP estimates are correct. They may be, they may not be. We're going to wait. But that's what he seems to be admitting here, here. And you end up in this impossible position because Fox spent years downplaying the job growth of the Biden administration and downplaying the reductions in inflation and downplaying rising wages under Biden, they convinced their viewers everything was bad, but it wasn't. And so now that their guy is back, they have to flip the narrative. If a recession happens under Trump, it's because of the mess Biden left behind. If a recession happens under Trump, it's because of this patriotic transition that we're participating in, that we're partaking in, where everything is going to get really good but after getting really bad. So this is preemptive excuse making. It's Fox News now, having to prime their audience not to say, wait, all the metrics are worse under Trump. If that's what happens, and if it's not, I will tell you, you know that I'm not going to play games with this data. Biden was responsible for every economic hiccup during his four years during a broadly perfectly fine economy. But now that Trump's policies might lead us into a recession, it's just an unfortunate transition period. Will the Fox MAGA base fall for it? Most of you, when I asked this question, say, yes, they will. They will fall for it. Elon Musk is finally facing the consequences of his own actions. Nationwide, protests have erupted at Tesla showrooms. I guess they're technically not called dealerships, service centers, I don't know what you would call them. And charging stations. From New York to Portland, St. Louis to Palo Alto, California, hundreds of people took to the streets. And in Manhattan, six protesters ended up getting themselves arrested after occupying a Tesla showroom. Wait a second. Do it.

[Donald Trump]

I love Tesla.

[David Pakman]

Tesla. Nobody voted for Elon Musk. Oligarchs out. Democracy in was what many of these protesters were chanting. Now, I want to make clear this is not about Tesla per say. This is about Elon Musk's growing role as an unelected bureaucrat in Donald Trump's administration. A guy who's gone from pretending to be some kind of edgy apolitical genius to fully embracing the far right. And now Elon Musk's relationship with Trump is sparking backlash for his businesses. Put aside for a second the Space X rocket crashes. Put aside for a second that the layoffs that he is the architect of are hurting the American economy. This is hitting his favorite brand and his reputation, and it's hitting his wallet as well. There are Tesla owners even joining protests by selling their cars. One ex Tesla owner said to the New York Times, I'm sort of embarrassed to be seen in that car now. And can you blame them? I got rid of mine, you know, a little while ago now. But I completely agree with that sentiment. Now here's where it gets even more unhinged. Musk, Trump, the right wing media machine, are now losing their minds over the protests. We spoke earlier how Donald Trump called the protests illegal and collusive. Elon Musk has been posting these wild conspiracy theories, saying it's George Soros, Soros, I need to say, and act blue and socialists who are bankrolling the protests. And of course, Trump is just arguing that these protests are a crime. Now, as I told you yesterday, not buying a Tesla because you don't like, like Elon Musk's politics is not illegal. It's capitalism. It's the capitalism that they claim to champion as the number one best way to organize an economy. You deciding where to spend your money is not a conspiracy. It's called consumer choice. This is not cancel culture. It's the free market, the thing that Republicans claim to love. And for years, Elon Musk has been pushing right wing conspiracy theories, turning Twitter into a cesspool of bigotry and openly allying himself with Trump's authoritarian agenda. And now people are making the obvious choice. I'm not going to give them my money. Especially when, if I want an electric vehicle, look at all of the options that I now have. I no longer have Tesla as one of the few options. And people are making what's a very obvious choice now, arguably the best part of this is how much it's getting under Donald Trump's very, very thin skin and how they are desperately trying to reframe this because remember, MAGA hates electric cars. Trump spent years attacking EVs, calling them a scam. They have no range. You can't charge them. Mocking Joe Biden's administration for wanting to build more charging stations. The right has been ranting and raving about how electric vehicles are a globalist plot. But now Musk is his buddy and they're supposed to suddenly love Tesla. I love Tesla, right? Are we about to see MAGA influencers posing next to their new model Y's and cyber cucks, sorry, cybertrucks pretending that they love woke electric vehicles just to own the libs. Because that would really be something. And at the end of the day, it's not even really a boycott. It's not cancel culture. It's not a deep state fueled conspiracy. It's consumers choosing something that Elon, Musk and Trump only seem to support when it benefits them. And if the far right is really mad that progressives don't want to buy Teslas anymore, the solution is go and buy them yourselves and and charge them and drive them and do all the things you used to say that couldn't be done. I have to apologize for something. I was notified that I've been giving incorrect guidance on how to support our audio podcast. It turns out you don't need to write any review. There aren't even reviews on Spotify. All you need to do to help us grow the audio podcast, which we really want to do as a 2025 project. All you need to do is subscribe and rate. It's two clicks. You don't have to write a damn thing. You go on Apple Podcasts, you find the David Pakman show, subscribe, rate. Hopefully five stars. But rate the podcast. Whatever you think we deserve. Okay, subscribe and rate. You go on Spotify, subscribe and rate. That's it. We're talking 10 seconds and I will update you at the end of the week of where the podcast stands. Let's take the quickest of quick breaks. Why not? And then the show will continue. Today's show is sponsored in part by Lucy Breakers. This is a tobacco free nicotine pouch with a capsule that can be broken to release extra flavor. Such a better option than smoke or vapor. Lucy breakers come in 4 or 8 milligrams strength. You can choose Mint, Apple, Ice, Mango, Berry, Citrus. 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When you go to outschool.com pacman and use the code PACMAN that's outschool.com/pacman use code PACMAN for up to $20 off. The info is in the podcast notes. We are an audience supported program, an independent media entity and our primary funding source is you. It's folks who watch the show who listen to the show. I invite you to get the full experience as a paid member@join pacman.com Donald Trump, the Mango Menace, fell apart on camera and said, everybody is transgender these days. In a bizarre press event at the White House, most concerningly, from a foreign policy perspective, Donald Trump was asked, does the United States of America have a future in Naito? And Trump did not give a clear yes. That would give us confidence.

[Peter Navarro]

President Does America have a future in NATO?

[Donald Trump]

What, sir? Does America have a future?

[David Pakman]

Also, you'll notice Trump struggling to hear or understand just about every question.

[Donald Trump]

Well, NATO has to treat us fairly if they pay their bills and if they do what they're supposed to do. When I first got involved with NATO, as you know, they weren't paying their bills. There were 28 countries and most of them weren't paying and I got them to pay and they paid billions and billions of dollars. I made a certain statement that I'm not going to be involved with NATO unless you're going to pay your bills. And I was asked a question. If we don't pay, are you going to help us? I said, no, if you don't pay, you're saying you're delinquent. A term, a real estate term. You're delinquent. You're not paying your rent, you're not paying your bills. If you're not.

[David Pakman]

Okay, so not an answer that, of course the United States has a place in Naito's. Of course we do. It's just about making sure it's functioning as efficiently as possible. No, the answer was not, yes, the US Has a place in Naito. Trump really struggling to hear anything and at one point just gives up and moves on to another report.

[Donald Trump]

No, that's enough, Kelly, thank you.

[David Pakman]

Was there anything that the teacher could say to you today that was. I love that he just. When he can't hear or understand that, he just moves on. Some are suggesting that these are fabricated and contrived hearing issues, but at the same time, he really does seem unable to understand just about anything. Trump was asked, which countries will you next target with your travel bans? And Trump goes, what a stupid thing it would be for me to tell you that.

[Donald Trump]

Travel ban. Say it. Can you say which countries you might target in your next travel ban? Would that be a stupid thing for me to say? Which countries am I going to target for the next travel ban? Can you believe somebody would ask that question?

[David Pakman]

It's quite a good question because the last travel ban targeted countries that are not known sources of domestic terror. So we're all left to wonder who is going to be targeted by this thing. A very funny moment and sad. Trump was asked because he was there with the Irish leader. Trump was asked, who's your favorite Irish person? And you can tell, it's like deer in the headlights. The only Irish person Trump can think of is the UFC fighter Conor McGregor.

[Peter Navarro]

Who's your favorite Irish person?

[Donald Trump]

Oh, there's so many. Are you kidding me?

[David Pakman]

I can't think of any, but there are so many Irish people I love.

[Donald Trump]

I do happen to like your fighter. He's. He's got the best tattoos I've ever seen. I don't know if I'm a big. But that you have.

[David Pakman]

You have notice. He seemed to not even know Conor McGregor's name. He said that you're a fighter.

[Donald Trump]

Connor's great, right? You know, talking about Conor. But you have a lot of. You have a lot of great Irish fighters, actually a great fighters. I don't know what that is, but Ireland's always had a lot of good fighters. You know why? Because they're tough people, they're smart people, and they're passionate people, and they really have been over the years. So many. I think your father was a great fighter, right?

[Peter Navarro]

He was.

[Donald Trump]

Wow. And yet, look at you. You're so smooth. And so he was a very good defensive box.

[David Pakman]

Yeah. So anyway, not James Joyce, not Oscar Wilde, but your fighter with the tattoos, whose name somebody fortunately helped him out with. So all of this out of the way, then this event got really weird where Trump said, everybody's trans now. Everybody's trans, and they should not.

[Donald Trump]

And they're also demeaning women, but who would want these things? And everything's transgender. Everybody transgender. That's all you hear about now. That's why we won the election in record numbers.

[David Pakman]

But very importantly, now, remember, more than half of voters voted for somebody else.

[Donald Trump]

Is what it is. The Democrats should get with us and come up with good taxpayers policy.

[David Pakman]

Yep. They went to school, and all of a sudden, everybody was transgender. Trump asked about the failing stock markets. He goes, oh, no, no, no, no. Once the markets figure out what's really going on, we're going to do so.

[Donald Trump]

Financially, we'll be stronger than ever before. I think the markets are going to soar when they see what's happening. I tell you what, I'm called every day by numerous big, big companies. I spoke at the Business Roundtable yesterday. They had the largest attendance they've ever had. And these are.

[David Pakman]

Yeah, because people are terrified.

[Donald Trump]

Only the CEOs and chairman, but mostly the people that run the boss. The people that run the top 150 companies. 150 people showed up. Every single company showed up. First time it ever happened.

[David Pakman]

It's been all right. So once the markets really figure out what's going on, we're going to do really well. Trump also wildly suggests that the reason the European. This is so crazy. Trump suggests the reason the European Union was established was to take advantage of the United States.

[Donald Trump]

The EU was set up in order to take advantage of the United States, including Ireland.

[Peter Navarro]

Is Ireland taking advantage of the U.S.

[Donald Trump]

Of course they are. I can't. You know, I have great respect for Ireland and what they did, and they should have done just what they did, but the United States shouldn't have let it happen. We had stupid leaders. We had leaders that didn't have a clue. Or let's say they weren't business people, but they didn't have a clue what was happening. And all of a sudden, Ireland has, you know, our pharmaceutical companies and other. This, this beautiful island of its island of 5 million people. It's got the entire U.S. did you.

[David Pakman]

Guys all know that Ireland is an island? That's an interesting fact that a lot of people don't know. Fox News cut away from this atrocity during the question about America's future in Naito. Fox News just bad, but I hope.

[Donald Trump]

To be able to. Mr. President, does America have a future in NATO? What's it? Does America have a future in NATO? Well, NATO has to treat us fairly if they pay their bills and if they do what they're supposed to do. When I first got involved with NATO, as you know, they weren't paying their bills. There were 28 billion countries and most of them weren't paying. And I got them to pay, and they paid billions and billions of dollars. I made a certain statement that I'm not going to be involved with NATO unless you're going to pay your bills. And I was asked a question. If we don't pay, are you going to help us? I said, no. If you don't pay, you're saying you're delinquent. A term, a real estate term. All right, so President Trump, together with.

[David Pakman]

The Taoiseach of Ireland, Mikhail Martin, it started to get a little too wacky. And then finally, Donald Trump ending the press conference with a promotion for his own business.

[Donald Trump]

We'll end it with this. So I have a property, a big property in Ireland that you know well. It's one of the most highly rated hotels in all of Europe. It's beautiful. Dunebeg. It's a beautiful 600 acres on the, on the ocean, and everybody knows it. And we have a beautiful hotel. And I was going to do a project there, an big expansion of the, of the place.

[David Pakman]

This was not going to subject you to the whole thing, but Trump devolving into promos for his own properties. These events are not going well, and this is not a stable individual. You know, what I often reflect on is after one of these bonkers things, I will lean back in my chair almost so far that I flip back and say, this guy's got access to the nuclear codes. And that is a terrifying reality. At what point does the economy stop being Joe Biden's and start being Donald Trump's? Caroline Levitt, Donald Trump's White House press secretary, was asked this very simple question, because one of the things that we're noticing is that if something's going well, it's thanks to Trump and If something's not going well, it's the Biden economy still. So Caroline Levitt was asked, well, give us the date. When is it finally Trump's economy? On the economy, you mentioned yesterday that this is a transition period.

[Caroline Levitt]

How does the White House measure this.

[David Pakman]

In terms of when can you not blame it on former President Biden and when does it fully become President Trump's responsibility?

[Caroline Levitt]

Well, we've only been here for 52 days, but certainly the president is working hard every day to again, bring down the cost of living, which we see is already happening. You see, the cost of eggs is going down. Cost of.

[David Pakman]

He's not been here long enough to blame him for anything bad, but he's been here long enough to credit him for things that are going well.

[Caroline Levitt]

Gasoline is going down because of the massive deregulatory efforts of this president and also the fact that we are delivering on his promise to drill, baby, drill already. You saw this past weekend, the National Economic Advisory put out a report that because of the regulations we've already slashed, in just 52 days, we've saved American taxpayers $180 billion. That comes out to about $2,000 per American household. That's in 52 days. So the president is working diligently and he's working hard on this every single day. And we need Congress to also help. We need Congress to pass tax cuts, which the president campaigned on and the vast majority of the American people support.

[David Pakman]

So economies do not reset like iPhones. And as, as you all know, I genuinely want you to be informed about how this stuff works so you can evaluate who gets credit and blame you. Don't reset an economy like an iPhone. When a new president comes in. Certain policies take more time to fully take effect. Certain policies take effect more quickly. Some markets, like the stock market, are sort of a futures market. And so the expected effect of certain policies is reflected more quickly in the stock market as traders and investors are extrapolating what they expect the effect to be. If they expect that it will be bad, they will sell stocks now and the stock market goes down now. And it's different with different policies. You know, tax policy, for example, deregulation, it can take months, up to years to show its full effects. So when Caroline Levitt says the deregulation that Trump has done in the first 52 days has already worked its way through the economy. No, absolutely not. Deregulation takes much longer to take effect. Monetary policy, when the Fed changes interest rates 6 plus months to filter through the economy and to really be able to Measure the full effect. Job markets, on the other hand, consumer spending, stock markets react far more quickly. So you see the tariffs, businesses and individuals much more quickly assess the impact of that. Things will cost more. I'm going to have to raise prices in my business because my input materials are costing more. I think my job might be at risk or my raise might be at risk, so I'm going to spend less right away. And so we have to be able to distinguish these things. The stock market move. Whoa. We just had a very strange, almost full chair collapse. The the stock market movements that we are seeing are much more quickly indicators of the Trump changes to tariffs and other policies. On the other hand, if The Fed cut 25 basis points today, that would take longer to filter through the economy. So there isn't really one answer. Trump's tariff implementations have rapidly led to economic repercussions. Sharp declines in the stock market, reduced consumer spending, reduced hiring in some places. On the other hand, any deregulation Trump does, and even for her to say he's deregulated all this stuff, very often they've deregulated nothing. But even if it were true that Trump was doing serious deregulation, that takes longer to filter through. So the question of when does it become Trump's economy? It really does become Trump's economy on day one with regard to futures. But there are policies that take longer to filter through and policies that filter through more quickly. Are we really going to get a straight answer of that sort from Caroline Levitt? No, we are not. And we saw that we did not. Do you ever feel like it's tough to stay focused? I've sometimes struggled with it and Brain FM's Focus Music has really helped me find my groove. I used to think background music from Spotify or YouTube would help me focus, but I ended up distracted and then I'd start looking for better tracks that would actually help. Then I found Brain fm. It's not just another music app. It's really music designed for when you are trying to do deep work. It's science backed. The modes can be for deep work or more creativity, focus or motivation. They have a turbo mode designed to support ADHD brains. Brain FM's music works within minutes and it delivers results. A peer reviewed study showed that Brain FM's music boosts attention, especially for people with adhd tendencies. Brain FM's Focus Music is the only music made to support ADHD brains. And Brain FM is the only music app funded by the National Science foundation because of their unique audio technology that changes the patterns in your brain. With Brain fm, I am locked in. The distractions go away. The productivity just happens and my audience can try it for free for 30 days. When you go to brain.fm/pacman, you can get access to Brain FM's entire library of science supported focus music for an entire month, totally free. I think you'll find it as useful as I do. Go to brain.fm/pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. It's great to welcome back to the program Democratic Congressman Richie Torres representing New York's 15th congressional district in the Bronx since 2021. Congressman, it's so great to have you back. And it's a really, I think, an important time to talk to you because your district is number two in the country for Medicaid enrollees. 67 your district is enrolled in Medicaid. You, I can only imagine, are worried about what the assumed cuts that are being sort of played coy with here by Doge would do to your constituents. Can you tell me, have you been hearing from people? Are your constituents aware of sort of what's at stake here?

[Peter Navarro]

We're in a state of panic. The Trump Agenda, the budget resolution enacted by Congressional Republicans would represent a catastrophe for the country and nowhere more so than in the Bronx. As you said, I represent the highest concentration of Medicaid recipients in the nation. 66% of my district is enrolled in Medicaid. And to provide you with some statistics, more than 72% of the children in New York 15 are covered by Medicaid, 82% of the nursing home residents are covered by Medicaid, 91% of the baby deliveries are covered by Medicaid. So it is health insurance for babies, children and senior citizens that Republicans are intent on savagely cutting. And it's worth noting that Medicaid is no longer simply health insurance for the lowest income. It has become long term care for the elderly and the disabled and the chronically ill. And so it's become as critical to senior citizens as Medicare. And the Republicans passed a budget resolution that would cut Medicaid by up to $880 billion, which would decimate the program and communities like mine would be the hardest hit. And not only Medicaid, but as you know, cut education by $330 million, cut food assistance by up to $230 billion, all to fund more than a trillion dollars in tax cuts for the top 1%.

[David Pakman]

I recently spoke to Senators Warren and Schiff who think there is something to the idea that the goal of making these systems more Dysfunctional is to increase the desire to see them privatized. And this is sort of a strategy as old as kind of the United States economy itself, which is the. The worse a system functions, the more people believe this is not working, the more open they are to ideas of, hey, maybe, maybe let's look at having Wall street or for profit agencies manage some of this stuff. Do you think that that's at the core potentially of what they have up their sleeves?

[Peter Navarro]

Well, the Reagan administration was the first to pioneer what has often been described as the starve the beast strategy. For me, Doge is taking starve the beast to a new extreme. The objective of Doge is to cripple the ability of the federal government to govern. It's to set up the federal government to fail and then cite the failure as a pretext for further defunding of the government or further privatization of. Of government core functions. I mean, that's the game that's being played. Which is. But, but, Joe, just taking it to a new extreme, the star of the beast strategy.

[David Pakman]

What can Democrats do to prevent this from happening? And, you know, I hear from people in my audience who say, you're talking to people who have great ideas. They're assessing the problem correctly. They're suggesting alternatives that are interesting. But Trump's got the White House. Republicans have the House and Senate. What can the Democratic Party do right now to prevent the worst of these ideas from becoming a reality?

[Peter Navarro]

Look, the reality is that Donald Trump and congressional Republicans cannot keep the government open without Democratic votes. They cannot reset, raise the debt ceiling without Democratic votes. And so we should be using whatever leverage we have to prevent Donald Trump's decimation of the federal workforce and Donald Trump's decimation of the social safety net. There's no alternative. Like, I feel strongly that Senate Dems have to vote against the continuing resolutions put forward by Republicans because this is the only moment of leverage that we might have.

[David Pakman]

Yeah, I think the concern for me is when it really is Republicans shutting down the government, Democrats still sometimes get blamed. And then often you hear from Democrats. No, no, no. You never play games with the government shutdown. And now the suggestion from some is this time it might actually be the only leverage we have. To which I would say you're right. But doesn't this only hurt the prospects of Democrats in 2026?

[Peter Navarro]

Look, as far as I'm concerned, it's a Republican shutdown because Republicans control the presidency, the House, and the Senate, And Republicans could have chosen to pursue a bipartisan path and negotiate a compromise that would have kept the government funded. Instead, it chose a hyper partisan path. And so the burden falls on the Republicans as the party in power to find the votes to keep the government funded.

[David Pakman]

Yeah, I struggle to. I mean, of course, you're correct. And Also, the last 12 years of following shutdowns makes me scared that the voters are going to sort of blame, blame the wrong people. But maybe, maybe, maybe this time it's different. I don't know. If you hear a lack of confidence in my voice, it's because it's gone so poorly in the past.

[Peter Navarro]

Well, historically, Republicans have been blamed for government shutdowns, right? Most famous, most infamously, Newt Gingrich. But look, we're at a time when we're witnessing an unprecedented assault on the social safety net, on the US Economy, on the federal workforce. And we cannot stand by passively and allow Elon Musk and Donald Trump to take a wrecking ball to the core functions of government, because the damage that they're doing will endure long after their time in public office.

[David Pakman]

Are there, are there clear leaders of the Democratic Party right now in your mind? Because I've asked this question of a number of different folks. And, you know, I get that at this point in time, in this, this point in the election cycle, there's maybe reasons to be cagey. But are there names that strike you right now? If someone said who is or who are the leaders of this party? What, what names come to mind, if any?

[Peter Navarro]

Look, we have a deep bench of talent, right? We have legislative leaders like Hakeem Jeffries, but we also have strong governors like Wes Moore and Josh Shapiro. We're going to have a deep bench of talent that's going to reveal itself in the 2028 presidential election. So the Democratic Party at the moment has no single leader because we have no president. We have no Democratic nominee. We have no one who's going to rival the bully pulpit of a sitting president, much less someone like Donald Trump who knows how to dominate the airwaves. So I don't worry about, I think we have a deep bench of talent and it's going to reveal itself over time.

[David Pakman]

I want to talk a little bit about what's going on with tariffs and the stock market up, down, mostly down, and some of the other concerning economic indicators that we are seeing without betraying any confidences right behind the scenes. To the extent that you're talking to your Republican colleagues, do they believe this whole this is a little pain to get to the pot at the end of the rainbow or are they concerned about what they're. What they're seeing in terms of this erratic economic policy from the White House?

[Peter Navarro]

It varies, but I sense among. To the extent there are no more Republicans, I sense real concern and anxiety about the actions of Donald Trump. But again, the Republicans are no longer a normal political party. It's become a cult of personality around Donald Trump. And the average congressional Republican lives in fear of Donald Trump and will never cross him, will never critique him. What I found striking is when Donald Trump was claiming the authority to defund whatever program he wishes, whenever he wishes, for whatever reason he wishes, when he was attacking the spending power of Congress, you had the Republican chair of the Appropriations Committee seeming, Seeming to suggest that maybe the President does have the power to impound funds. Like, it was just remarkable to see the Appropriations Chair ceding his own authority to an overreaching executive.

[David Pakman]

One of the things that's notable is that every principle that this Republican Party has claimed to hold wholly over the last 10, 15, 20 years, you know, that. That I've been sort of following American politics, it goes out the window when it's inconvenient, completely out the window concept of conservative, smallest possible government goes completely out the window when all of a sudden they decide, actually, we have 10, 20, 30 things that we want government to get involved in newly that it hasn't been involved in before. Given this complete lack of real principles, how do you negotiate with folks where you don't really even know what they will or won't support at any given time? Are. Are these people you can even work with? I guess is the question.

[Peter Navarro]

I mean, we have no choice in some cases. But you're right, the overarching principle of the Republican Party is Donald Trump. The. The unquestioning loyalty to Donald Trump seems to Trump everything else. And so, you know, we have trouble negotiating with a party that is no longer functioning as a political party. It's become a religion in the service of Donald Trump. And Republicans are willing to discard conservative principles and frankly lie. I mean, you know, Republicans pass a resolution, budget resolution, that cuts up to $880 billion from Medicaid, and then they lie about it. They pretend, oh, it will have no impact on Medicaid, or it's only about fraud, waste, and abuse, which is an outright lie.

[David Pakman]

One of the areas where I think they're just crushing us, and this is what I hear from so many in my audience, is that it's not feeling very cool to be on the political left right now. And one of the Things we learned during the last three months of the presidential campaign was that this whole environment that MAGA has built, where they're hanging, the influencers are hanging out by the pool at Mar a Lago and they're hanging out on Nelk Boys and all of the podcasts, they've really created an environment that's not just media ecosystem, but there's a sort of vibe there that seems cooler to be a part of, even if the policies are a disaster, even if they don't know or care what the policies are. And I'm not really hearing anything from anybody I'm talking to about what the left can or should be doing right now to try to take back some of the cultural cachet that the right successfully weaponized to win everything in November. What. What do you think should be done?

[Peter Navarro]

Look, I feel like we have to recognize, and we're beginning to recognize, that we're in a brave new world of alternative media. And if we have confidence in our message as Democrats, we have to be willing to take that message to every quarter of the alternative media ecosystem. We could no longer afford to cede that to the political right in America. And that to me, was one of the great strategic miscalculations that the Harris campaign made in the 2024 election. We have to be radically accessible and available to alternative media outlets.

[David Pakman]

And I'm guessing that that also means you don't just start calling about interviews in October of an election year. But we're really trying to kind of build a movement and an ecosystem here. But there seems to be. I mean, you tell you would know more. My sense from the outside has been that there is such risk aversion that a lot of uncontrolled interviews, the sort of that that Trump did, right, Three hours with the Nelk boys or Rogan or whatever, that the risk aversion really scares off a lot of the staffers of Democratic elected officials. Do you see that?

[Peter Navarro]

Most elected officials are risk averse? And keep in mind that, you know, the skills of an elected official in the world of alternative media is quite different from the skills that one historically needed to succeed as an elected official. So, you know, I have colleagues who are struggling to adapt to a new environment, who are resistant to change, but the results of the 2024 election is forcing a painful reckoning. And you do see colleagues who are embracing alternative media, sometimes comically, but you see the effort unfolding to go back.

[David Pakman]

Briefly to the economic stuff, because we kind of got off of that. I've been kind of wondering what's, what's the off ramp here? Assuming that the stock market continues doing what it's doing and that someone gets to the White House and says, listen, the whole. A little pain to get to the, to the promised land, it's not working. It's not happening. It's a real problem. What's the 180 that allows Trump to save face here while stopping the hemorrhaging that we are seeing? Is it claiming he got everything he wants so he can end the tariffs? Or, like, what do your colleagues on the Republican side, if they're sharing with you, see as the way out of this that will fit into Trump's personality?

[Peter Navarro]

I mean, it's not clear to me there is an offer up, because this is not one issue among many. Right. This is the core issue on which he ran. Like, he ran on tariffs. He ran on effectuating a manufacturing revival in the deindustrialized Midwest. And so do I think he's going to renege? I mean, he believes it. He's been consistent on the issue. I feel like his policies are deeply destructive, and it's creating massive uncertainty in the economy that's going to lead to more inflation and less economic growth. But he's clinging, and people are, by the way, catching onto his game. He keeps crying wolf, and I think Mexico and Canada realize that he's just going to keep playing this game of delaying and delaying the tariffs. But the mere threat of the tariffs, the uncertainty that it creates, is doing enormous damage to the U.S. economy.

[David Pakman]

You know, last thing I want to mention, sometimes I understand all of the economics of what's going on, and it's a disaster. Right? You understand it, I understand it. And then sometimes in the back of my head, I get this thought, could Trump know what he's doing? Like, is it possible that this is all going to work out and there is some kind of pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is, does that ever occur to you?

[Peter Navarro]

Look, there's no president in history that has had more, more grandiose, more delusions of grandeur than Donald Trump. I mean, he once said that he was the best president for African Americans, including even better than Abraham Lincoln.

[David Pakman]

Yeah.

[Peter Navarro]

And so he has a grandiose view of himself as a negotiator, and he seems to think that he can leverage tariffs to negotiate the best outcomes for the United States, but it's not even clear what he's seeking. Like, I get China and Mexico genuinely have a role in the fentanyl crisis. 97% of fentanyl precursors are manufactured in China and those precursors are sent to Mexico where they're synthesized and then smuggled into the United States. So that part I get. At some level, I disagree with the terrorists, but I get the logic. What exactly does he want from Canada? Canada has no role. There's no border security crisis with Canada. There's no fentanyl crisis in relation to Canada. So it's not even clear what he's seeking. He's just picking a gratuitous fight with one of our closest allies with no end game.

[David Pakman]

Doesn't make any sense, as near as I can tell. Congressman Richie Torres from New York's 15th congressional district. Thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it.

[Peter Navarro]

Always a pleasure.

[David Pakman]

Lately, every day feels like a barrage of news that could keep you up at night. Rights under attack, norms shattered, Cha dominating the headlines. But we must get good rest. You can't stay in the fight for what's right if you're running on empty. And that's why I'm excited to tell you about something that has worked really well. Dream Powder by our sponsor Beam. It is a delicious instant hot cocoa with a dose of Melatonin. Clinically proven to help you stay asleep and fall asleep without the side effects you get from from taking drugs to sleep. Dream Melatonin hot cocoa helps me sleep through the night. No more tossing and turning. Wake up feeling refreshed, not groggy. Keeping Dream Hot Cocoa in my cabinet has become a must. The best part is it comes in a bunch of delicious flavors with no sugar added. My favorite is cinnamon. Go to shop beam.com/pacman use the code PACMAN for 40% off. That's shop bam.com/pacman. Then use code PACMAN for 40% off. The link is in the podcast notes Donald Trump suffered a full blown meltdown this morning on Truth Social because other countries aren't simply laying down and taking it from Donald Trump. Take a look at this Donald Trump starting on Truth Social Truth Central the European Union, one of the most hostile and abusive taxing and tariffing authorities in the world. World, which was formed for the sole purpose of taking advantage of the United States, has just put a nasty 50% tariff on whiskey. If this tariff is not removed immediately, the US will shortly place a 200% tariff on all wines, champagnes and alcoholic products coming out of France and other EU represented countries. This will be great for the wine and champagne businesses in the United States. Now what Trump isn't telling you there is that the EU whiskey tariff is A retaliatory tariff because the US Already put tariffs on European steel and aluminum during Trump's presidency. This is not an unprovoked attack on American trade. The US and EU have since worked to suspend some of these retaliatory tariffs. But the idea that the EU first of all was formed to take advantage of the US is not true. But these tariffs are not the EU going, how can we just hurt the United States? These tariffs are. Trump already did it and the EU is saying, well, we're not going to do nothing, we're going to do something. Trump then continuing on troth, quote, the globalist Wall Street Journal has no idea what they are doing or saying. Bear in mind the Wall Street Journal did an op ed which we will talk about about how consumers are panicking about the economy under Trump. Trump continues, they are owned by the polluted thinking of the European Union, which was formed for the primary purpose of screwing the United States of America. Their thinking is antiquated and weak and very bad for the usa. But have no fear, we will win on everything. Egg prices are down, oil is down, interest rates are down and tariff related money is pouring into the United States. The only thing you have to fear is fear itself. Well, tariff money isn't pouring into the United States. It's already here because it's the American companies that pay the tariffs. Egg prices, egg futures have started coming down. That's a good thing. Oil prices don't really seem to be down in any significant way and it has nothing to do with tariffs. And interest rates are basically flat and relate to the Federal Reserve, not to Donald Trump. And then finally Trump, quote, the U.S. doesn't have free trade. We have stupid trade. The entire world is ripping us off. Of course, remember that the US has a number of different trade agreements in place, including Trump's own. This is a mind boggling new thing where I think it was, I think it was Steve Bannon or another Trump suck up who said even USMCA isn't working. USMCA is Trump's trade agreement and now Trump is going, we don't have free trade. He negotiated it and told us it was free trade during his first term. Now of course trade is not a one way Street. The US exports 2 trillion in goods annually. Technology, aerospace, agricultural products. We know that Trump's tariffs have backfired and they've hurt the US when it comes to trade. And if the US were truly being ripped off, why is it that Wall street does so well on international trade? Why are major companies like Apple and Boeing and Tesla so dependent on global markets. If trade is how the United States gets ripped off. Wacky, incoherent stuff from Trump. Another day, another meltdown. I have my favorite video of the week to play for you. It is Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Who is going to make us so, so healthy. Mispronouncing the names of food additives while not even realizing that these food additives are really no big deal. While going to fast food places whose items really are filled with elements we should be avoiding and saying it's great stuff. Here it's you. Could you have predicted this? I don't know. Here is Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Struggling to pronounce a number of food additives which are mostly no big deal. Listen to this. This is a list of ingredients from foods. Carrot green and carrot green and carrot green. And folks, this is the man who's going to make America healthy again. Carrot green and. Ok, let's just go back and do I. I love this clip from Foods. Cara Green and Riboflam River Flame. Okay, he's trying to say riboflavin. Rival flame.

[Donald Trump]

Otis on a sodium glutamate.

[David Pakman]

Monosodisodium glutamate is anosodium glutamate, Modus anisodium glutamate and 20 others that I can't pronounce.

[Peter Navarro]

Okay?

[David Pakman]

Carrageenan is a thickening and stabilizing agent. It's derived from seaweed. It's been around thousands of years. Okay, it's, it's really not a big deal. The US Says it's safe. Europe says it's safe. If you have crazy amounts, it might make your GI system feel a little off, as do many foods in excess. Not a big deal. Okay, Riboflavin, which he calls Rival flame. It's. It's vitamin B2. It's another name for vitamin B2. There is no concern about riboflavin. The fact that he can't pronounce it means nothing. It's an essential vitamin. It's in eggs, it's in dairy, it's in meat, it's in leafy greens. The Secretary of Health of Human and Human Services is arguing that a vitamin is bad because he can't pronounce it. Sodium mono glutamate, also known as msg, is not a big deal. There was a time, I remember during the 90s when my family moved to the US we started going to Chinese restaurants and it was common to go, oh, no msg, please, no msg. MSG basically got a bad rap for A long time. It's just a salt. Essentially, it's the sodium salt flum from gluten. Gluten? Glutamic acid. And it occurs naturally. Some people might have a sensitivity to it. Very few do. And if so, you avoid it. It's just a salt. It makes food more flavorful. It's not a big deal. Now let me tell you what's a much bigger deal. The Secretary of Health and Human Services go into a Steak and Shake with Sean Hannity and talking about how great the food is when you're supposed to be promoting healthy. A beef towel.

[Donald Trump]

Oh, by the way, here you go.

[David Pakman]

Just take the red basket.

[Peter Navarro]

I'll take those trades back for you.

[David Pakman]

Oh, okay.

[Donald Trump]

Is that.

[David Pakman]

Oh, this is me.

[Donald Trump]

Okay, thank you.

[Peter Navarro]

All right. Thank you. You didn't forget my Coke, did you?

[David Pakman]

Okay. Steak and Shake promotes that. They fry their fries and cook their burgers on 100% beef tallow instead of seed oils. Cool. Okay, fine. But what ingredients do you think are in the Steak and Shake? Liquid margarine, the savory seasoning, the reduced calorie mayo, the bun. You know what Steak and Shake has in their bacon and their hot dogs? Sodium nitrite, which at high heat can form nitro samines, which are linked to. To increased cancer risk. Steak n Shake has sodium phosphates in a bunch of their foods where high intake of that has been associated to kidney disease, an imbalance of calcium and cardiovascular issues. They have something called Ada, a Zodiac carbonamide. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. In their bread and in their buns, they love to say, oh, a lot of this stuff is banned in Europe. That's banned in Europe by that name. Allowed in small amounts in the US it can cause it has carcinogenic potential. A lot of their stuff is riddled with high fructose corn sirup, just a form of sugar, but it's a way that you can rapidly consume a lot of calories of low nutrient density. Partially hydrogenated oils in their buffalo sauce that's a source of trans fats. Those are strongly linked to heart disease. We should be avoiding them altogether. Occasional consumption of this stuff is not likely to cause harm, but this is the stuff you want to avoid. And on the one hand, the Secretary of Health and Human Services is going rive a flame. It's terrible. That's vitamin B. On the other hand, he's saying, look at how awesome Steak and Shake stuff is when it's riddled with elements we know aren't good for you. The thing that we have to really understand is that just because you can't pronounce something doesn't tell you whether it's good or bad for you. I love Tesla, right? Trump can't pronounce Tesla. Does that mean Tesla's good or bad? We don't know. More relevant, Dihydrogen monoxide. That's just water. A lot of people would see that. They go, oh, it's a chemical. Ascorbic acid. Oh, it's acidic. It's vitamin C, tocopherol. Oh, that's just vitamin E. Oh, my God. Ethyl butanoate. That's the element that gives fruit its sweet smell naturally. So whether something has or doesn't have a complicated name really doesn't tell us much about whether it's a healthy thing. But what I can tell you is I'd rather have riboflavin in my food rather than partially hydrogenated oils the likes of which they serve at Steak and Shake. It is almost surreal that this is what the Secretary of Health and Human Services is promoting. Speaking of promoting, we will talk on the bonus show about the threatened 200% tariff on alcohol from the EU floated by Trump. We are going to talk about who will suffer the most if Social Security breaks or fails. And once again, Congress is trying to ban hair discrimination. What is this all about? All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. You can sign up@join pacman.com we have. Okay, so let me give you the update on the books. I last told you we have 800 signed books ordered. Brookline Booksmith has gotten an extra 200, and those 200 are right now what's left for the taking. Those numbers have changed. A thousand signed books are now spoken for. Brookline Booksmith has ordered an extra 300, and that is what is now available. If you'd like one of the remaining 300 signed copies, please go to David pakman.com/booksmith. And as we now approach the release of the book, it is so important that you review the book on Amazon and or Barnes and Noble. Okay. And do it quickly. We right now estimate we have about 8,500 preorders total for this book. If we got even half of that in reviews, 44,000 something reviews, the effect of that would be explosive. So that's the next ask for folks who have gotten the book. Okay, so 300 signed copies remain. David pakman.com booksmith I'll see you on the bonus show. I'll see you back here tomorrow.