3/24/25: Dems filling rallies as Trump melts down over Elon

Summary

The David Pakman Show – Episode Summary Title: Dems Filling Rallies as Trump Melts Down Over Elon
Host: David Pakman
Release Date: March 24, 2025

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1. Introduction and Current Political Climate

David Pakman opens the episode by highlighting a resurgence in Democratic activism, especially in traditionally red states. He emphasizes that Democrats are energizing their base with sizeable rallies that resonate more authentically than previous efforts, contrasting this with President Trump’s apparent discontent over rising figures like Elon Musk gaining political prominence.

Notable Quote:

• David Pakman [00:00]: "Democrats really rocking red states with crowds that Trump could only lie about having. That's the truth."

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2. Democratic Rallies in Red States

Pakman discusses recent Democratic rallies, showcasing the involvement of prominent progressive figures and the significant turnout in typically Republican strongholds.

a. Greg Casar’s Speech in Tucson, Arizona

Greg Casar passionately criticizes the Trump administration’s policies, particularly targeting Elon Musk’s financial gains juxtaposed with cuts to social programs.

Notable Quote:

• Greg Casar [02:32]: "Elon Musk makes his $8 million a day in government contracts... it's time to say fire."

b. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s Remarks

AOC underscores the Democrats' focus on substantive issues such as healthcare, wages, and education, dismissing cultural debates as mere distractions.

Notable Quote:

• Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez [03:42]: "We need to be establishing guaranteed health care... not erasing American history."

c. Bernie Sanders’ Address

Bernie Sanders addresses economic inequalities, advocating for affordable housing and criticizing the influence of billionaires like Elon Musk in politics.

Notable Quote:

• Bernie Sanders [04:36]: "There is no excuse for 800,000 people to be sleeping out on the streets... we need a living wage."

d. Jon Ossoff’s Comments

Senator Jon Ossoff reiterates the administration’s neglect of ordinary citizens' needs and criticizes the concentration of power among elites.

Notable Quote:

• Jon Ossoff [08:44]: "The President is not at his palace... He does not care about our daily lives."

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3. Economic Analysis Under Trump's Presidency

David Pakman provides a fact-based overview of the economic indicators since Donald Trump assumed office for his second term, comparing them to the end of Biden's term.

a. Employment and Inflation Data

• Unemployment Rate: Remains steady at 4.1% ([05:17]).
• Inflation Rate: Slightly decreased from 2.9% to 2.8% ([05:17]).

b. GDP Growth and Mortgage Rates

• GDP Growth: Moderate annualized growth of 2.3% in Q4 2024 ([05:17]).
• Mortgage Rates: Decreased from 7.04% to 6.67% for a 30-year fixed rate ([05:17]).

c. Consumer Sentiment and Stock Market

• Consumer Sentiment: Slight decline, indicating decreased public optimism ([05:17]).
• Stock Market: Experienced a 5.7% drop under Trump’s administration, contrasting with significant gains during Biden’s tenure ([05:17]).

Analysis: Pakman emphasizes that while some metrics remain stable or show slight improvement, the overall sentiment and stock market downturn reflect growing economic anxiety among Americans.

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4. Trump’s Attacks on Media and Democracy

The discussion shifts to President Trump’s ongoing assaults on the media and democratic institutions, portraying his rhetoric as indicative of authoritarian tendencies.

a. Statements on Media Outlets

Trump denounces The New York Times, CNN, and MSNBC as "fake news" and "the enemy of the people," questioning their integrity and reliability.

Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump [18:37]: "The New York Times is back to being the enemy of the people."
• Donald Trump [20:58]: "We do need honest journalism... MSNBC is, I think, probably worse."

b. Authoritarian Behavior

Pakman interprets Trump’s rhetoric as a direct attack on press freedom and democratic norms, highlighting the dangerous implications for transparency and accountability.

c. Pentagon Briefing Incident

A controversial incident where Elon Musk was briefed on potential US war plans with China without the usual formal procedures led to Trump's public meltdown, revealing inner conflicts within his administration.

Notable Quote:

• Donald Trump [21:27]: "Donald Trump is melting down because Elon Musk is suddenly getting presidential level access..."

d. Trump’s Relationship with Technology

Trump exhibits a perplexing and performative relationship with technology, criticizing and misunderstanding basic tech functions while promoting himself as tech-savvy through ventures like cryptocurrency.

Notable Quote:

• Donald Trump [28:52]: "Maybe technology. He can look at a computer... I turn off his laptop... he’s got his laptop."

Analysis: Pakman argues that Trump’s inconsistent behavior towards technology underscores his reliance on others for governance while projecting an image of control and expertise.

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5. Immigration Policies and Personal Stories

Pakman shares a poignant example of the human impact of Trump’s immigration policies through the story of Bradley Bartel, whose wife Camila Muñoz was detained by ICE.

Key Points:

• Bartel, a double Trump voter, now seeks crowd-funded support to prevent his wife’s deportation.
• Highlights the contradiction of Trump supporters suffering under policies they once endorsed.
• Emphasizes the lack of support for ordinary Americans struggling with the very systems they backed.

Notable Quote:

• David Pakman [26:00]: "If you need to crowdfund $3,000, MAGA has nothing for you."

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6. Public Health and Vaccination

A heart-wrenching segment covers the death of a Mennonite family’s child due to measles, despite anti-vaccination beliefs, showcasing the tragic consequences of vaccine misinformation.

Key Points:

• The family, part of the Mennonite community, opposed vaccination and lost their child to measles.
• Interviews reveal persistent anti-vax rhetoric despite devastating outcomes.
• Pakman analyzes factors contributing to vaccine resistance, including disinformation and religious extremism.

Notable Quote:

• Mennonite Mother [41:37]: "Don’t do the shots. It's really not that bad."

Analysis: Pakman underscores the critical importance of vaccination and the dangers posed by anti-vaccination misinformation, advocating for informed public health policies.

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7. Corporate Media’s Handling of Democrats

Pakman critiques how corporate media engages with Democratic figures, focusing on superficial and non-controversial questions rather than substantive policy discussions.

a. Bernie Sanders’ Interview with ABC’s Jonathan Karl

Bernie Sanders exits an interview in frustration over the lack of meaningful dialogue, leading to further inaction on critical issues.

Notable Quote:

• David Pakman [48:10]: "We are in March of 2025... Corporative media ignores actual policy and actual stakes and serves up horse race theater."

Analysis: Pakman argues that media’s focus on irrelevant questions undermines Democratic leaders' efforts to communicate essential policies to the public.

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8. Conclusion and Remarks on the Book Release

Wrapping up the episode, Pakman promotes his upcoming book, "The Echo Machine," urging listeners to purchase and review it to support independent media. He reiterates the importance of factual analysis and transparent reporting in the current political landscape.

Notable Quote:

• David Pakman [32:32]: "My book comes out tomorrow. Please review the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and Goodreads."

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Summary: In this episode, David Pakman provides a comprehensive analysis of the current political climate, highlighting the invigorated Democratic efforts in red states against President Trump's contentious administration. He examines economic indicators under Trump, criticizes the president's authoritarian rhetoric towards the media, and delves into the human and societal impacts of Trump's policies on immigration and public health. Additionally, Pakman critiques corporate media's superficial engagement with Democratic leaders, emphasizing the need for deeper, policy-focused discourse. Throughout the episode, Pakman underscores the importance of independent media and factual reporting, culminating in a call to support his new book aimed at fostering informed democratic participation.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Foreign. Welcome to the show. Hope you had a good weekend. My book comes out tomorrow. I hope that you've ordered it. Please do review the book right away on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and Goodreads. It'll really help us into week two and week three. Democrats showing signs of life. Democrats really rocking red states with crowds that Trump could only lie about having. That's the truth. We're going to talk about everything that's been going on, but more importantly, what this represents is a sort of new era. Now. We had the devastating loss of November. We had the despondency and a lot of people understandably, kind of checking out of politics. Many of you telling me, david, sir, I need a break. And all of that made sense. And then now, having been reminded of how bad it really is under Trump and the, the what the second term portends people getting activated in ways we haven't seen in a very long time. Even though corporate media news ratings continue to decline. Msnbc, CNN down toilet, ratings up. Um, independent shows like ours are bigger than ever. Our best January on record was this past January, Our best February. And some people like to not even say that are. And they say February, however you like to say it. Last month, the best of those months ever. And March on track for the same. Everybody is seeing this exact same trend because people are activated, but they're activated not to hear from. I'm so sorry, I have to say this not to hear from Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, but because they want to hear from our friend Greg Cassar. Alexandria, Cassio Cortez, Bernie Sanders and so on. And so look at this picture from Denver, Colorado over the last few days. An absolutely massive crowd, 34,000 people. Speaking of Greg Cassar. Here he is in Tucson, Arizona, introducing aoc, who introduced Bernie Energy. Audience, take a listen.

[Greg Casar]

That's not right. It's not right. They want to come after programs for working people. They get their $8 million a day while they try to, to cut food stamps for the working class. They. While Elon Musk makes his $8 million a day in government contracts. He's coming after your grandma's $65 a day while Musk gets his $8 million a day. He's trying to shut down the Department of Education, trying to shut down the Department of Labor. Musk wants you to work more hours to make him more rich. Musk wants you to pay more taxes to make it more rich. Tucson, I've had enough of this. It's time to say fire.

[David Pakman]

Elon Musk all right. And then the energy palpable as Greg Cassar introduces aoc. All right. And then we'll hear a little bit from Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. This is 2 Tucson, Arizona. This is happening in red states all over the country.

[Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez]

And they will throw out every label and judgment and cultural debate in the book to keep us distracted. Folks, this is what the focus on trans kids is all about. Come on. 1%, 1% of the entire population. If people want to have conversations about that, take it to the ncaa. It doesn't need to be on the floor of the United States Congress. Need to be taxing the rich on the floor of the United States Congress. We be establishing guaranteed health care on the floor of the United States Congress, not erasing American history on the floor of the United States Congress. We need to be passing a living wage on the floor of the United States Congress.

[David Pakman]

And then Bernie Sanders, just as fired up and firing up the crowd to.

[Bernie Sanders]

Absolutely important is for us never to forget we are today the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. There is no excuse for 800,000 people to be sleeping out on the streets. There is no excuse for 20 million people, including people right here, paying 40 or 50% of their limited incomes for housing. This is America where we can build 4 million units of low income and affordable housing. We can lower rents.

[David Pakman]

And Bernie Sanders also going directly at the campaign finance system and how Elon Musk dumped money into Trump and now he's extraordinarily powerful.

[Bernie Sanders]

Now, I don't care if you're a conservative Republican or a progressive. Does anybody think it makes sense that we have a campaign finance system where one man, Musk, can put $270 million to get Trump elected and then his reward is that he becomes the most powerful person in government?

[David Pakman]

Well, you know, that makes sense when you see democracy as an auction available to the highest bidder, who recently was Elon Musk. Now, we're going to look at a clip of Jon Ossoff, who also held his own anti Trump rally in the red state of Georgia with a fellow senator, Raphael Warnock. We're going to look at that in a moment. But the important takeaway here, there's a number of important takeaways. You don't have to believe that Bernie is the future of the Democratic presidential candidate for Democrats. And in fact, Bernie said in an Bernie made clear in an interview yesterday that he is not running. Okay. So this is not me telling you Bernie has said he's not running. You don't have to believe that it's aoc, I have no idea. Some people like aoc, some people don't. Some people say she's too far left. Some people said she sold out. Now she's too far right. The point here is, number one, the energy is back. Number two, the people getting more attention right now than Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, for all good intentions that we ascribe to them, is a different type of Democrat. I like seeing that because I think the future presidential candidate is going to come from that new group, not from the previous group. Number three, the themes are spot on. What was I just talking about with Congressman Jamie Raskin last week? I was suggesting, and he seemed to agree, that we need to be on message and we need to be on message about these cultural issues. The reason we call them contrived is because they are contrived. And AOC saying we're talking about under 1% of the population when we talk about trans people. I would go even, even further. And remember, this is not to say we don't care about trans people. This is to say, why are they getting disproportionate hate as scapegoats from the right? And it's exactly for that reason. Under 1% of the population is trans. Only a fraction of that population is involved in sports at all. Only a fraction of that fraction of a fraction is involved in the sports in which the issue of birth, biological sex matters. And only a sub fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction is at a level where we really even need to be worried about this. It's a completely contrived issue. And what I love hearing from Bernie and AOC and Greg Cassar and in a moment from Jon Ossoff, which you will see here, is that they are saying on the stuff that matters, health care, economics, wages, jobs, etcetera, they have nothing to offer you. They have nothing to offer you. Here is Senator Osso, and none of.

[Jon Ossoff]

This is on the administration's agenda. They just do not care. They do not care. Trump's cabinet is worth like $60 billion. That's not even including Elon. They are literally the elites they pretend to hate.

[David Pakman]

Right?

[Jon Ossoff]

The President is not at his palace in Florida thinking about whether you can afford daycare for your daughter or how to stop insurance companies from denying your claim or anything that matters to our daily lives. When is the last time you even heard Donald Trump talk about health care.

[David Pakman]

Or childcare when he said that he had concepts of a plan? Jon Ossoff is very Good at this. These rallies are a great sign of energy coming back. We're going to be talking about it a lot more. And of course, Democrats must be on message to make this effective. This, these last five days seem to suggest that there is a message here that has been found. How have the first two months of Donald Trump's economy gone? You all know that I am a partizan observer of politics in the United States, but I made a pledge to you that I would tell you just the facts when it comes to the economy. Where are the numbers under Trump? And we are going to continue doing exactly that. Let's just review and see where we are and then see what we can glean from it. Unemployment rate at the end of President Biden's term was 4.1% under Donald Trump. Now two months, unemployment is at 4.1%. It is flat. There has been no change as of this moment to the unemployment rate under Donald Trump. The inflation rate when President Biden left, It was at 2.9% year over year for the year ending December 2024. It briefly went up to 3 and then is now down to 2.8. Inflation under Donald Trump, essentially unchanged, down slightly from 2.9 to, to 2.8% GDP growth. It's going to be a while until we get GDP data that encompasses Donald Trump's presidency. We now got the Q4 number from 2024. The economy grew and annualized 2.3% in the fourth quarter of 2024. Totally normal, uncontroversial number. Nothing crazy to look at and say, oh my God, this is incredibly good, it's incredibly bad. It is fine for a country and an economy the size of ours. Really kind of like nothing to see here. No Trump data yet. Mortgage rates are slightly down. The 30 year fixed rate mortgage is often the one that's used kind of as a barometer. When Joe Biden left, it was 7.04. It is now 6.67 after two months of Donald Trump down about a quarter of a percentage point. This is, you can argue it's good. I mean, the thing about mortgage rates is they tend to move opposite home prices. When mortgage rates come down, all of a sudden people can afford more house at the same payment and that can tend to have a slightly upward influence on home prices. About a quarter point difference so far. We talked about consumer sentiment as tracked by, notably by the University of Michigan and as you can see here, certainly down slightly. We don't yet have the February number, but that is where we are. And then Stock market performance, notably stocks up 22% in 2023 under Biden. Stocks up 22% in 2024 under Joe Biden. Since Donald Trump has become president, the broader markets on average are down 5.7%. That is a significant stock market decline in a short period of time under Donald Trump. So what, what is the truth about economic data so far? Basically flat, with two metrics about expectations pointing down. Does this mean we're headed to a recession? Not necessarily. Does this mean that this is inevitably the direction things are going to go? No, not necessarily. What we see is that unemployment has not really changed, inflation has not really changed. What we do see is consumer sentiment down significantly, suggesting the average American has an expectation that things are not going to be so good in the near future. And the stock market, which is a futures market of sorts, it's not literally trading futures, literally trading futures is something different. But in a sense the stock market is reacting to expectations about what is coming, tariffs, etc. And the effect that that will have down 5.7% in just 50 something, 662, something like that, days that is not so good. Those are the facts. Now, we can still interpret and make our analysis, but when we talk about whatever metrics, we always want to start with the data and go to the primary sources, go to the St. Louis Fed, go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. And we do this no matter who is president, do not fall for the people who will trust or not trust the exact same sources. Depending on who is president and depending on what direction, a move is more convenient to them politically. We can evaluate Trump's policies and then we can also look at the data and then we put it together. That's where we are right now. My question to you is, is whether there is any other metric you want me to start, including in our once a month economic update. This is the second one of Trump's presidency. We did one around February 20th. We've now done one around March 20th, plus a couple of days to get those final days of data. We will do one in another month. If this needs to be expanded with additional metrics, let me know info@david pakman.com we will take a quick break. My book comes out tomorrow. I know many of you have already received it. Please review the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and Goodreads. Very quick break. Right back after this. 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And right now they have some amazing deals at fast growing trees.com including up to half off and my audience gets an additional 15% off when you use the code Pacman. That's fast growing trees dot com. Use code PACMAN for 15% off. The info is in the podcast notes. I used to spend way too much of my day thinking about planning meals, what to make, how long it'll actually take to make it, whether it will be something I like. Since I started using cookunity, I have cut the stress out. Our sponsor, Cook Unity, delivers restaurant quality meals to my door. It just saves me time and energy and I can spend time doing other things, no cooking or cleanup required. One of my favorites so far has been Chef Vanessa's Haitian Vegetable Stewart. Great flavors squash and Japanese eggplant, cabbage spinach all simmered with Haitian API, which is an incredible urban garlic paste that served over jasmine rice with black beans and coconut milk with a side of sweet fried plantains. One of the best Haitian meals I've had and I love knowing that I'm supporting talented chefs making great food. Cook Unity's rotating menu means I'm always finding new favorites and it keeps things exciting. Since everything is made by real chefs with local seasonal ingredients. I know I'm getting high quality food that tastes incredible while being super convenient. Reset your routine with fresh chef prepared meals. Go to cookunity.com/pacman or enter code PACMAN for 50% off your first week. That's cookunity.com/pacman. Enter code PACMAN for 50% off. The link is in the podcast notes. The David Pakman show is an independent progressive political program. This means our primary source of funding is you folks who like the podcast, folks who like the YouTube channel the Tic Tac, which is approaching 1 million followers. We'll say more about that at some point. Really Appreciate everybody who has chosen to support the show. We know that every day you stay subscribed to membership is a choice you are making not to break up with us. You can sign up@join pacman.com and learn about all of the great member benefits including the daily bonus. Oh, the bonus show where you want to make money.

[Donald Trump]

Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad.

[David Pakman]

That's really Alex Jones talking about our bonus show. By the way, I know there's people, new people in our universe who don't know what that clips from that is. When Alex Jones, the conspiracy theorist, you know the guy about who talks about globalists, that guy, he unleashed a horrible rant against me and it included saying also things like that is a frickin predator right there about me and thank your lucky stars every day. You're not David Pakman, right? Anyway, he hates the bonus show. I judge for yourself. That's my ask. You can sign up@join pacman.com of course you will get instant access to the bonus show. Donald Trump went full frontal over the weekend. Now, now, hold on. Before you get disgusted. Yeah, that's Trump. Before you get disgusted. That's not what I mean. Donald Trump launched a full frontal attack on democracy, on the freedom of the press, speaking exactly the way we know authoritarians speak. Listen to this. The New York Times is back to being the enemy of the people.

[Donald Trump]

That I think Elon wouldn't do it. I think he wouldn't do it. He wouldn't want to put himself in that position. But if you read what's out of the New York Times, it's such a dishonest newspaper. It's such garbage. It's, you know, it used to be called all the news that's fit to print. Well, it's all the news that's not fit to print. They have fake sources or they don't have sources. I think they make most of it up. But this was a made up story by the New York Times. I call it the failing. It's a failing newspaper. It's failing and they shouldn't do that. They really are the enemy of the people.

[David Pakman]

They really are the enemy of the people. Nothing says transparency and democracy more than attacking media outlets that you don't like as enemy of the people. And yes, that this video of Trump, that nacho cheese glow that he has, that, that tanning bed look has not been digitally added. That is the way Trump looks. Trump continuing the full frontal attack on press freedom and democracy by saying that MSNBC and CNN soon are going to be turned off.

[Donald Trump]

We do need honest journalism and this, you know, we've made such big strides last two months, but we just need honest journalism and we don't have it. When you have a CNN I watch, you have to watch these people every once in a while just to see where they're coming from. And it's so dishonest. MSNBC is, I think, probably worse and they're both doing horribly in the ratings. I think they're going to be turned off. I don't think they're not doing any ratings. You're doing well in the ratings.

[David Pakman]

Soon they are going to be turned off and, and then more authoritarian, if you can imagine it. Donald Trump asked, do you think that you have the authority to just round people up and deport them without giving them due process and actually giving evidence against them? And Trump goes, not only do we think that that's what the law says, it's what the country needs. Do you think you have the authority, the power to round up people, deport them, and then you're under no obligation to a court to show the evidence against them?

[Donald Trump]

Well, that's what the law says and that's what our country needs because we were unfortunately, they allowed millions of people to come into our country totally unvetted, totally unchecked. So you ought to ask, did he have the authority to allow millions of people? Did Biden have the authority?

[David Pakman]

Right. And of course, when you show up to the house of a woman who's married to a citizen and is in the process of getting her paperwork in order, is that a violent criminal, the likes of which Trump said would be the priority of this administration in rounding people up? No, it is not. And by the way, we'll follow up on that story a little bit later as well. We are going to discuss later this week how do empires die. And there is a lot of slow creep and this sort of authoritarianism and disregard for laws. Historically, I'm not being hyperbolic and predicting the end of the United States. Historically, this sort of slow erosion of democracy is how many an empire and many a democracy have fallen. So we will talk about that. Donald Trump is melting down because Elon Musk is suddenly getting presidential level access and Trump can't handle it. Now you might say, what's going on here? The Pentagon was set to brief Elon Musk. That's the same guy who puts out excretions on X that are disgusting memes and is palling around with President Xi and the whole thing. He was going to be briefed Elon Musk was on potential US War plans with China. It was going to be Elon getting the briefing, not Trump, not anyone who's been elected to anything or subject to a Senate confirmation. It was going to be Donald Trump. And that apparently was too much for the delicate ego of our very frail, very insecure, want to be authoritarian. So Donald Trump took to truth social in full meltdown mode, raging that the story is completely untrue, that the fake news was targeting him. And. And he weirdly referred to New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman as Maggot Hagerman. Maggot Hagerman. Because of course, when you're the leader of the free world and you respect the free press, you have to come up with nicknames for reporters doing their job. Trump taking to troth, and he said, quote, ellen will be briefed by the pentagon about the USA's top secret plans against China should there be a war. According to the failing New York Times, one of the worst and most purposefully inaccurate newspapers anywhere in the world. Their fake concept of this story is that because Elon does some business in China, that he is very conflicted and would immediately go to top Chinese officials and spill the beans. Ratings challenged fake news. CNN immediately picked up on this absolutely ridiculous and false story, which is probably libelous, and went heavy with it for fortunately nobody was watching. Maggot Hagerman, the really dumb scammer who constantly writes about me for the Times using anonymous made up, nonexistent sources and who I haven't spoken to in ages, is a big part of the scam. She led the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax only to realize that she was duped and got it wrong. She owes me a totally discredited Pulitzer Prize for her bad reporting. The fake news is the enemy of the people and Elon is not being briefed on anything by China and anything China by the Department of War. This, this is not about national security. Donald Trump doesn't care that Elon Musk has business ties to China or that giving him top secret military plans is an ethics nightmare. Trump doesn't care about that. Trump is only furious that somebody else is getting attention. Somebody else is seen as important and being catered to someone else. And this is the real element. Someone else might be seen as having real power. Now, of course, Trump doesn't want to do the work of being president. This we know. He wants to golf, he would love rallies, he wants praise. He is fine handing off real responsibilities like national defense to unqualified billionaires like Musk. If it means he can go get a tea time at Bedminster or Mar a Lago, but the second that that person becomes the face of anything, he starts getting Elon, starts getting credit, starts, starts getting headlines, starts getting decision making power. It's World War Three on troth central. So this is classic Trump. You surround yourself with people you can offload the job to so you can golf and dj@mar a Lago, playing the latest, you know, cats song you like, and then turns on them the second they start looking more important than he does. Now, Elon Musk is not a patriot to Trump. He's competition. And nothing threatens a narcissist authoritarian more than someone else being seen as the guy in charge. So Elon might be running doge, the Department of Government Efficiency. Trump's the one running the Department of Insecurity and Unchecked Ego. I still maintain at some point this is going to completely blow up in Trump's face. When, I don't know, if I were a betting man, which, have I mentioned, I'm not a betting man. If I haven't, I should say that I'm not a betting man. But if I were a betting man, I would guess that the Elon thing doesn't even go close to four years. Hey, listen to this. The guy who wants you to buy his crypto meme coin was impressed that a laptop could be turned back on in only five minutes. What am I talking about? In case you needed another reminder that Donald Trump lives in a technology free time capsule, Trump is now marveling on camera that his son Baron is able to turn on a laptop. This, this is so wild. In the Fox News interview with Laura Ingraham, Trump said to Laura Ingraham, he, he went into Barron's room and the laptop was off. He came back five minutes later and the lap to brace yourselves, ok, the laptop was on a mere five minutes later. Yes, it is a technology skill that just blew his mind. But is Barron's aptitude in your view, business or politics?

[Donald Trump]

Maybe technology. He can look at a computer, try turning off his guy, turn it off, I turn off his laptop, I said, oh, good. And I go back, five minutes later, he's got his laptop. I said, how'd you do that? None of your business, dad. No, he's got an unbelievable aptitude.

[David Pakman]

And do you understand what Barron Trump was able to do in just five minutes? The laptop went from a state of being off to a state of being on. And whoa. And Baron is doing stuff on it. Now, let's be honest, this is not just amusing. It's a little bit amusing, but it's really more revealing than anything else. This is a man, as far as we know, who treats basic computer functions like a sort of forbidden wizardry that is almost magic. It's adjacent to magic. A man who once said he doesn't use email, he doesn't use computers. The guy who has been dictating tweets to people who probably thinks the cloud is where his golf swing disappears. And yet this is the guy who wants you to believe he understands cryptocurrency, that he's deeply involved in tech innovation of all kinds, that his scammy, you know, self branded Trump coin isn't just another grift to squeeze his followers dry. So we are all being sold this idea. While Trump is stunned by a booting up laptop, we are being sold the idea that Trump's now a player in digital currency and really understands it. That he understands blockchain, that he can explain defi decentralized finance. It's laughable, but it's also insulting. And it's part of a bigger pattern. And the bigger pattern is that Trump's relationship to technology is totally performative. He doesn't get it. He uses it as a prop, much like he uses minority voters, much like he uses rural voters, farmers, poor voters. If it's an NFT of him dressed as Rambo or a shady crypto project or whatever, the technology is not the point. The grift is always the point. So the next time someone tells you that Trump is is promoting some new investment in something digital or whatever, this is the guy who just discovered laptops can go from off to on in only five minutes. Maybe it's Baron who should be running that crypto scam because at least he knows where the power button is. Another day, another Tesla story. What is going on with this company? Well, if you go to ground.news/pacman, you will see how some outlets are covering Tesla and Elon Musk compared to others. The story really is one story, but the way it's told really can change your perspective. And this is the exact problem that our partners at Ground News help to solve. Ground News is the only site that shows you how political bias and financial incentives and even blind spots shape the narratives in the news that you read. Otherwise, you're letting billionaires and political agendas shape everything from public opinion to policy. See every side of the news story, read the news from multiple perspectives and see through the media bias with reliable news from local and international sources. Go to Ground News, Slash, Pacman to get the same top tier vantage plan that I use at nearly half the cost, just five bucks a month. The link is in the description.

[Alex Jones]

So many different VPNs reach out to me wanting to advertise on the show and I always turn them down because most of them do not pass the sniff test. VPNs are all owned by the same big mysterious company. They log your Internet activity so they can sell it or give it to law enforcement. And these VPNs are just out to make a buck without really protecting your privacy. The only VPN I trust enough to have as a sponsor is Private Internet Access. Our sponsor, Private Internet Access, is the only VPN who is proven multiple times in legal proceedings and they don't keep.

[David Pakman]

Logs of your activity.

[Alex Jones]

The judge ordered that PIA show user activity history each time they demonstrated.

[David Pakman]

They don't have the records that no.

[Alex Jones]

Log policy is also independently audited by Deloitte and PIA is also open source. So you can also see in the code that none of your activity is being logged and you can protect unlimited devices with just a single account. Private Internet access is giving my audience 83% off, which is just 203amonth plus four extra months for free. Go to PIA vpn.com David the link is in the podcast notes.

[David Pakman]

If there's one thing that we have learned about cults, it's that the cultists never think the consequences are going to apply to them. We've talked about this with cult experts, cult psychologists, sociologists who study cults. It's always going to be someone else who pays the price. Of course, until it isn't. Last week we met Bradley. Bradley Bartel. This is the Wisconsin guy who proudly voted for Donald Trump twice, only to now be begging for donations online to stop ICE from deporting his wife. This is the same ICE that Trump promised to unleash with even fewer restrictions than during his first term. And it is happening right now. Like I told you last week, Bartel's wife is Camila Munoz, and she was detained by ICE while the couple was returning from their honeymoon. She is now locked up in a detention center in Louisiana, and Bradley Bartel's Go Fund Me is trying to scrape together $3,000 for legal fees to fight against her removal. Now, I want to pause here. Just based on what I've told you so far, I. I have to be able to speak frankly on this program. So I say the following with total respect, even though I understand how it could come off. If you need to crowdfund $3,000, you are not the target beneficiary of Trump's economic policy. If you need to crowdfund for 3,000 bucks in this situation, MAGA has nothing for you. As Jamie Raskin and I talked about last week, if you need to crowdfund for three grand, you're not going to get the stock market gains, which, by the way, right now nobody's getting, but you're not going to get the stock market gains because that is going to go disproportionately to the rich. You're not using an LLC to get out of taxes. You're not getting the tax breaks. You are, as they say, voting against your own interests. Spectacularly so. Now, also the next part is rich Camilla's own Facebook posts show she's a Trump supporter, too. So we've got a deportation happy administration, two people who supported it caught in the gears of the very machine they voted to build. If it wasn't tragic, and if I didn't feel some basic level of empathy for humans, it would be a sort of entertaining performance. It really would. But let's not miss sort of like the hammer that gets dropped here. The same people who preach personal responsibility and vote for the guy who says he is the candidate of personal responsibility, they are now asking you to pay for their immigration attorney because of the problem they got into because of whom they chose to vote for. The cognitive dissonance is doing backflips here. You vote for the cruelty, it knocks on your door, and suddenly it's time for GoFundMe. Now, of course, we've learned Trump and ICE don't care that your wife overstayed her visa because of COVID They don't care that you are now married and that she has a legal path to citizenship, never mind residency. She has a legal path to citizenship. They don't care that they promise to deport people. And you're simply the next headline. This instance also cuts straight through the false narrative that Trump and ICE are only targeting what Trump describes as criminal illegals. People who are here undocumented but have been involved in, you know, a sexual assault. They're, they're gang members. They are, they have a history of violent crime or accused or have even been convicted of violent crimes here in the United States. The cases that the right loves to wave around to justify all of this. Camila Munoz is none of those things. This is a woman who overstayed a visa during COVID Married, a US Citizen is in the process of getting permanent citizenship here in the United States. So whatever, whatever your view is on immigration, this is not someone who should be a high priority target for law enforcement. And I think that this is a good reminder that progressives should be clear. And you know what? Bernie was clear over the weekend when he was interviewed about this. Defending immigrants doesn't mean defending everybody indiscriminately. It's a mistake. I believe, and Bernie believes when progressives start to defend individuals who are here undocumented and have been involved in violent crimes, that there's no political upside and there's no socio cultural upside to that. But it does mean that we defend basic humanity, we defend proportionality. And if there were really as many criminal illegals popping up everywhere, you know, you lift a sewer grate and there's 10 of them and then you open the door, you know, to a truck and 10 more pop out. If, if the criminal illegals, to use their term, were so common, they wouldn't be resorting right now to finding people with forget about a path to residency, but a path to citizenship. So Bradley, the guy who says he doesn't regret voting for Trump, now, this is what he's dealing with. And he's asking for your money to fix the problem. Your call whether you think he's deserving of your donations. In a heartbreaking and deeply disturbing interview, the Texas parents of a six year old girl who died from measles say they are still against the measles vaccine. They say measles isn't that dangerous and they say they wouldn't have done anything differently. Now, I'm going to play the clip for you. I am. This is going to be tough in this sense. I am going to try to cover this story with tact and sensitivity to what these people just went through. But I'm also going to have to be very real with you about what's going on. Okay, so let's check out the clip. You're going to hear a translator at one point and you might wonder, these people are from Texas. Why are we hearing a translator? What is the accent of these people? These are American folks, ok? They are Mennonites. Mennonites are a religious sect. Some call them a cult, some call them cult. Like, let's table that distinguishing phraseology for now. But the point is Mennonites often speak very poor English despite being American. They, they speak something called Low German in their communities. Now the first question you might say is who's interviewing them? They are speaking to the Children's Health Defense. That's the anti Vax Group, founded by the guy who right now is the Secretary of Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. So to set it up and we're going to get to the clip, I just, you know, need to do my explanatory setup. Despite losing their daughter to a almost always vaccine preventable disease, measles, they repeat conspiracy driven talking points and say a bunch of other wacky stuff. The mom says, don't do the shots. It's really not that bad. Measles isn't that bad. Turns out that they have other kids that got measles and recovered. Their daughter wasn't so lucky. Several days of illness, developed labored breathing. She was eventually taken to a hospital in Lubbock, Texas, intubated, died a few days later. Let's doctors with the hometown.

[Bradley Bartel]

She says they would still say, don't do the shots. There's doctors that can help with measles. They're not as bad as they're making it out to be.

[David Pakman]

And also the measles are good for the body. The measles are good for the body, for the people, because the measles are kidney kidnapped. What is it? Incident infection for infection? Yeah. They get infection out and he's. The measles get the infection.

[Bradley Bartel]

Do you mind? Says immune system.

[David Pakman]

Yes.

[Bradley Bartel]

They're trying to say that the measles actually helps build the immune system in the long run.

[David Pakman]

If they get the measles, so does the vaccine. In the long run.

[Bradley Bartel]

In the long run, the clinics like, okay, so in the long run, he says they wouldn't get cancer as easily.

[David Pakman]

And no evidence of that.

[Bradley Bartel]

Like it fights off a lot of, a lot of stuff. The immunity that they get from the vet, from the measles.

[David Pakman]

She almost said from the vaccine, she almost told the truth. She almost said, you know, the truth is the vaccine actually is a healthier thing to get. They also said that their daughter is better off where she is now and that it was simply her time on earth, it was time for her to go. So let's go through this piece by piece. Measles, not a harmless childhood illness. It's one of the most contagious diseases known to medicine. In unvaccinated populations, it can be deadly, especially for young children. The complications are numerous. Pneumonia, brain swelling, deafness, death. That many survive isn't really proof of anything. Right. The outcome from diseases is probabilistic. It goes on a, on a curve. And you can have, you know, 80% of the outcomes in that tall part of the curve and then you have People who presumably get a disease and they barely even have a symptom and then you have people that die. The fact that you have this curve distribution and that curve can be shifted by vaccination is not a reason not to get the vaccine. The effectiveness of the vaccine is 97% with decades of safety data behind it. Side effects are mild. You might have a low fever, you might have a sore arm. The risk of catching measles without the vaccine, as you can see here, is very serious. Very, very serious. What is the explanation here? And this is where, you know, I'm going to use tact, but I'm going to be honest with you. Is this partially the disinformation that spreads in Mennonite communities and in other, as we've seen, right wing communities and some left wing communities. There's left wing anti vax as well. Yes. So we have disinformation here as a factor. Religious extremism, if this is what our religious leaders tell us and our religious texts tell us, that is also a factor here. Very sticky beliefs that are hard to change. Is there cognitive dissonance combined with trauma from what happened, where they almost have to say, of course we would do the same thing again? Yes, there is some of that as well. Are there, I'm being respectful. Okay. Are there possibly untreated mental health issues here which have combined with the disinformation, the religious extremism? I don't know. I mean we, we, we know of in other situations how mental health issues of parents leads to inappropriate medical care for their children. That, that's not unique to Mennonites or to anti vax. The science, a lot of that stuff is unclear. Mental illness, disinformation, religious extremism, cult trauma, I don't know. Okay, all of the above. The science is clear. The measles vaccine is very safe. The disease for unvaccinated children can be extraordinarily dangerous. And now after multiple kids of theirs got measles, their daughter is dead. Tragic. Tragic. Ever walk into a store and have absolutely no idea what wine to get? It happens to me every single time. Because I don't know anything about wine. Which is why I love our sponsor, Naked Wines. Naked Wines is a subscription service that just connects you directly to the world's finest independent winemakers. So you can get award winning wine.

[Alex Jones]

Delivered straight to your door.

[David Pakman]

With my code Pacman, you can get six bottles for just 3,999. My girlfriend likes white wine. I know. I'm more of a red wine guy. Even if I'm generally clueless. So we usually get the split box from Naked Wines, which has both. Naked Wines believes that great wine is an experience and they're all about helping you connect with your friends, family, community. Over a shared bottle of wine. You get background information on each bottle. So when I have friends over, I can actually tell everybody where the wine came from and sort of sound like I know a little bit of something. And you can pause or cancel at any time. Head to naked wines.com/pacman and put in my code pacman for both the code and the password for six bottles of wine for just 39, 99 with shipping included. That's naked wines.com/pacman code PACMAN for six bottles of wine for 3999. The link is in the podcast notes. Bernie Sanders walked out of an interview with ABC's Jonathan Karl because the questions were, uh, it wasn't like confrontational, it wasn't aggressiveness. It was just kind of useless. It was really the DC cocktail party fluff that corporate media has been recycling for decades as the country falls to a deeply authoritarian, incompetent man who's now in the Oval Office again. So here is Jonathan Karl starts asking Bernie questions that are kind of predictably hollow. Bernie gets up and leaves. And then after coaxing him back, Jonathan Karl follows up with. I'm not kidding about this. Are you running for President in 2028 in the Middle of what we have going on?

[Jonathan Karl]

Check this out with AOC today. Do you see her as a future of the.

[J]

We have. One of the untold stories of what's going on in current American politics is that in the House of Representatives you have dozens and dozens of strong, smart, disciplined, hard working young people in the Progressive Caucus. And you know, way back when, when I first came to the Congress of the House, I helped form the Progressive Caucus. We had five people in it at that time. Now they got close to 100. So you got a whole lot of good people. Alexandria is extraordinary. I am so impressed by, by her work in Congress and her just, she inspires young people all over the country.

[Jonathan Karl]

Would you like to see her joining the Senate?

[J]

I. Right now we have, as I said, just a whole lot of people in the Congress. Okay, Jonathan, thanks.

[Jonathan Karl]

Wait, I got one more. I got one more important.

[J]

Well, I asked you. Okay, you know, you want to do nonsense, do nonsense.

[David Pakman]

No, I love it. All right, so now he coaxes him back and then asks the very hard hitting question, you may be running for president again.

[J]

I don't Want to talk about inside the Beltway stuff? I got 32,000 people.

[Jonathan Karl]

I was just asking you about AOC.

[J]

She was, you know, fine, but I don't want to talk about this. What was the last question?

[Jonathan Karl]

I was going to ask you one more question about you. I mean, that's all.

[J]

Your last. What is your question?

[Jonathan Karl]

I mean, it's easy to understand.

[David Pakman]

Coax isn't back on camera.

[Jonathan Karl]

I mean, I want to ask you about your future. This is the biggest crowd. You said you ran for president twice. This is the biggest crowd you've ever seen. Are we going to see you run again? What's your.

[Donald Trump]

What's your future?

[J]

Right now? I am very proud that the people of the state of Vermont sent me back to the Senate with 63% of the vote. Right now in Vermont, Senator, that's what I do, and I'm very happy to do it. I am 83 years of age, so. And I'm tired.

[David Pakman]

All right, so listen, first, before we even get into this, Bernie's making it clear he's not running for president, okay? He says, I'm 83 years of age. He would be nearly 90 years old at the time that the next president would be sworn in January of 2029. Just as, like, a factual aside and in. I'm not thinking of it now, but as we start to think about this, I think it would be good to just understand that Bernie's making it clear he's not running again. And it's not. Oh, we. We don't like Bernie. No, we like. We like Bernie. I supported him twice already. But the point is he's. He's making it clear he's not running, okay? He's tired. He's old. He says he's not going to be running. So here's what's going on. We are in March of 2025, billionaire billionaires are dismantling the federal government, Authoritarians are rewriting the rules of democracy. And ABC News is asking Bernie, who would be close to 90 on Inauguration Day, if he's planning another run and trying to generate inside the Beltway drama about AOC switching from the House to the Senate, which I can assure you voters do not care about, outside of what is she going to do as a lawmaker? Now, if you sat people down and said, you know, let's talk about the differences between what you do in the House and the Senate, I'm sure you could get people to go, yeah, sure, sounds good. Senate, maybe, but this is really Beltway stuff. I'm sure Jonathan Karl is a nice guy, or I assume he is, because I assume most people are. But he is part of a system, and I talk about this in my book. It is a system that is going to output certain things when its inputs and its structure are what they are. This is what corporate media does. It ignores actual policy and actual stakes and serves up horse race theater. Remember the 2024 campaign where reporters asked Trump 5,000 times who his VP pick would be and then he would play coy and it would just become story after story when, like, we're going to know. The question is, what are the policies he's advocating here? And he was rarely asked about his plan to gut the Department of Education, which he's now trying to do. He was rarely seriously challenged about his plan to abandon Naito, which he seems determined to be doing. So, Jonathan, Karl's not incompetent. ABC News is doing its job, which is distract, sanitize, entertain, in order to point to the next thing way down the road, rather than, hey, wait a second, what does happen if Trump simply ignores legal court orders? And what recourse do we have to try to crawl back into a system where the judiciary is respected and has power and teeth? And when Bernie doesn't play along, he gets treated like the problem. Oh, Bernie's so difficult. He's so. He's obstinate. And so it's not just that the questions are vapid and shallow, it's that they're designed to be. These interviews are not meant to inform voters about policy. They want Bernie, who got a crowd with AOC in a bunch of cities over the weekend, as we talked about. They want Bernie to create drama by saying, oh, the Senate is way more valuable and AOC should be there, or I am. I'm not ruling out running in 2028. What Bernie has to say about poverty or Medicare or the creeping rise of global authoritarianism. It's just not that interesting. And that's where we land. When Democrats are asked about hypothetical elections that are years away and then they don't want to answer, they are considered to be the problem. And then, on the other hand, when Republicans lie about elections that already happened, like Trump claiming he won 2020, those lies are treated with soft gloves and false equivalency here. You know, some people say it was stolen, while others disagree. That's. That's a classic line from corporate media. Some say humans are having an impact on the planet's climate, while others disagree. Oh, wow. Thank you so much for being neutral when neutrality couldn't possibly be less objective. So this is like empty calories, right, for a public that is really starving for a deeper analysis. So I'm going to keep trying to do the best I can to both grow the pie of independent media, right? So we got to play the games. In some places, I can use really boring titles on YouTube and then no one will pay attention. So we're going to play the games as necessary on each platform, but we're going to talk about, hey, here are the historical equivalents for what we are seeing right now with regard to ignoring the judiciary. Here are five ways to organize health care, all of which would be better than what we have. And here are the five countries that have chosen these systems. Maybe he's a nice guy. He probably is. But this is. This is not good. And Bernie Sanders realized it right away. Donald Trump's enablers are quietly preparing exit strategies as the Trump era eventually is going to sunset, for lack of a better term. And how it happens could have a massive impact on what comes next in the United States. So let's kind of lay out the way it's going right now. And this has major policy implications. If you look publicly, if you just step back and say, what am I seeing out there on corporate media? Republicans are publicly lined up behind Donald Trump like it's, you know, November of 2016. But behind closed doors, it's a very different story. Every member of Congress that I've interviewed tells me the same thing behind the scenes. Plenty of Republicans in the House and in the Senate think Trump is unfit for office, that what he's doing economically makes no sense, that this is all a really bad idea. They won't say it publicly, most of them, because the base still loves him. They are too afraid of getting primaried. They are afraid of losing fundraising. And if this sounds familiar, it should, because you think back to January 6, 2021, Mitch McConnell stood on the Senate floor. We covered it live, I remember, and called Trump morally responsible for the insurrection. And Lindsey Graham said, count me out from the movement that did that. On January 6, Kevin McCarthy said Trump bore responsibility for the Capitol attack, but then they crawled back into the movement as it became politically inconvenient to think for yourself and have a spine in the Republican Party. So now we're in Trump's second term. 2025, shaky economic indicators. Not a recession at this point, but things are shaky. The administration is more chaotic than ever. And there is this shift that is happening. And part of it is Trump is done in 2028, no matter what Steve Bannon tells you, Trump's done. Republican operatives, lawmakers, 2028 hopefuls, they are keeping a very close eye on the volatility of Trump's decision making and the eroding approval ratings. And they're sort of like vultures circling a limping animal. They are not challenging him outright for now, but they are laying the groundwork behind the scenes to move the second that it becomes politically safe to do so. So you're going to hear the soft rollout with phrases like, we are approaching our next generation of leadership in the Republican Party. We want fresh voices for 2028. So it's, it's not just political fluff. It's a message with a target. And the target is Trump. Everybody from Ron Desanctimonious to Nikki Haley to Glenn Youngkin, they are quietly building their infrastructure. It's not for right now. It's for what comes next. And the calculation is super easy. If Trump ism collapses under the weight of Trump or under legal baggage or whatever, there's a bunch of people who want to be first in line. Even if it doesn't come until late in this term, the end of 2027 or even later, Republicans are quietly gaming out the scenarios. What happens if Trump is legally sanctioned or incapacitated? What if public opinion turns way against him 80, 20? What if there is an unavoidable cognitive fitness incapacitation? So the point here is they aren't betting on Trump's strength, maintaining to where it is Trump's blessing that they will need in 2028. They are preparing for Trump's failure and abandoning getting off the train at just the right time. There's also the Trump fatigue factor. Political staffers are burning out, high level staffers are cycling through really quickly. And the MAGA loyalty tests are starting to wear thin. So the seasoned strategists don't really want to deal with the Trump world chaos. And then you've got right wing media, the right wing media's aspect of this, where right wing outlets are sending signals, if you know where to look. Fox, of course, covers Trump, but not with the same zeal. And we've even heard anecdotally just in the last 10 days, Peter Doocy and Maria Bartiromo and others starting to give air time to some of the obvious questions that people are asking about the tariff policy or other policies. The Wall Street Journal editorial board will periodically remind readers of the instability of some of the economic ideas of Trump. You even hear from some of the new right talking about post Trump conservatism, which when I hear it, I hear a desire from them to go back to something like a Mitt Romney or a John McCain. And then finally, even some of the MAGA influencers are kind of hedging and they're talking about we need discipline in our movement and using these sort of code words. So it is subtle for now, but the, the, the sort of moment that everyone is waiting for is when the risk flips. Right now it's dangerous to oppose Trump. It may become dangerous not to, depending on how the next three and a half years go. When that moment comes, many of the same Republicans who cheered the return of Trump in 24 are going to pretend. I was always skeptical of this. I was never really on board. I was trying to move the party forward. So we're watching it, pay attention to it, be ready for it. Folks, my book comes out tomorrow. I've got a whole shelf of them here. Let me grab one. The Echo Machine comes out tomorrow. Dozens of people have already received it. It started shipping out last week. I have two requests and only two requests for you. Number one, I would love it if you bought this book. I don't yet know where it is going to land in terms of all of the nonfiction books that are coming out right now. We're doing everything we can to make it a success. Whether you like to read, listen to audiobooks, Kindle. It's available everywhere at this point. You could get it as soon as tomorrow if you order it right now. The final signed copies are available at. David pakman.com/books booksmith sorry, let me say that once more. David pakman.com/booksmith and finally, please review the book. I'm not telling people who didn't read the book to review it. All I'm telling you is there are three really important places to review the book. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Goodreads. The reviews alone could push this book into a successful first month rather than a first week. We will be featuring reviews also, by the way, on our social media and in other places. So that's where we are. We've got a great bonus show for you today. You can sign up@join pacman.com the book is out tomorrow. A lot going on. Glad to have you with us today.