3/26/25: Total collapse over texting scandal, heads should roll

Summary

Podcast Summary: The David Pakman Show – March 26, 2025 Episode Title: Total Collapse over Texting Scandal, Heads Should Roll

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Introduction to the National Security Scandal

In the March 26, 2025 episode of The David Pakman Show, host David Pakman delves into a significant national security scandal involving former President Donald Trump and his administration. The controversy centers around the unauthorized sharing of sensitive war plans via the encrypted messaging app Signal, which inadvertently included Atlantic journalist Jeffrey Goldberg in a group chat ostensibly reserved for top national security officials.

Pakman opens the discussion by framing the situation as an unprecedented scandal that could potentially topple previous administrations. He highlights Trump's and his team's attempts to downplay the incident, labeling it as a "complete and total national security scandal" (00:07).

Contradictory Statements from Trump and Staff

A critical aspect of the scandal is the conflicting narratives presented by Trump and his associates. In an interview, Trump attributes the inclusion of Jeffrey Goldberg to a lower-level staffer affiliated with Mike Waltz, contradicting earlier statements from Waltz himself.

• Donald Trump (01:17): “What it was, we believe is somebody that was on the line with permission, somebody that was with Mike Waltz…”

Pakman underscores the inconsistency, suggesting that Trump and Waltz are "completely lying" in their efforts to obscure the truth (01:49).

Involvement of Jeffrey Goldberg and The Atlantic

Jeffrey Goldberg’s inadvertent inclusion in the Signal chat has drawn significant attention. According to Pakman, Goldberg has publicly released screenshots indicating that Mike Waltz directly added him to the group, contradicting Trump’s claims of a staffer's involvement.

• Pakman (02:00): “Mike Waltz did add Jeffrey Goldberg. We have the screenshots…”

This revelation intensifies the narrative of a cover-up within the Trump administration, with Goldberg positioning himself as a whistleblower.

Official Responses from National Security Officials

Pakman presents contrasting explanations from key figures such as Tulsi Gabbard, Director of National Intelligence, and Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense.

• Tulsi Gabbard (19:39): “I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but of all the people out there, somehow this guy who has lied about the President…”

• Pete Hegseth (29:37): Avoids directly answering questions about the incident, maintaining that communications were "permissible and lawful."

Pakman criticizes their responses as evasive and insufficient in addressing the gravity of the security breach.

Analysis of Classification Issues and Potential Incompetence

A central theme of the episode is the mishandling of classified information. Pakman references Department of Defense (DoD) guidelines, which stipulate that even unclassified information regarding military operations should not be shared on unsecured platforms like Signal.

• DoD Guidance Reference (08:49): Information providing "indication or advance warning that the US or its allies are preparing an attack is supposed to be classified."

Pakman argues that the Trump administration’s failure to classify the shared war plans points to a deeper layer of incompetence. This negligence not only undermines national security but also suggests systemic issues within the administration's handling of sensitive information.

Trump’s Comments on January 6 Rioters and Ashley Babbitt

In addition to the texting scandal, Trump addressed other controversial topics during the episode:

1. Compensation for January 6 Rioters:

   • Donald Trump (03:28): “We have a lot of people talk about. A lot of the people that are in government now talk about it because they…”

   Pakman vehemently criticizes this notion, labeling it as an inappropriate and dismissive approach to those involved in the insurrection.

2. Comments on Ashley Babbitt:

   • Donald Trump (05:22): “I'll look into that. I mean, you're just telling me that for the first time, I haven't heard that. I'm a big fan of Ashley Babbitt.”

   Pakman counters by highlighting the circumstances of Babbitt’s death, emphasizing that her death resulted from an act of violence during the January 6 events and is under legal scrutiny. He dismisses Trump's attempt to humanize her as disingenuous.

Criticism of Press Secretary Caroline Levitt’s Handling

Caroline Levitt, the White House Press Secretary, is a focal point of Pakman’s critique. During an interview with Fox News’ Jesse Watters, Levitt deflects from addressing the core issue, instead attacking the media and diverting attention to unrelated topics.

• Caroline Levitt (35:07): “President Trump absolutely has the full confidence in his national security team…”

Pakman mocks her responses, pointing out her failure to answer substantive questions and instead resorting to deflection and misinformation.

Responses from Fox News and Media Narratives

Pakman scrutinizes the responses from Fox News personalities like Jesse Watters and Brian Kilmeade, accusing them of aiding in the administration’s cover-up by downplaying the severity of the breach.

• Jesse Watters (47:26): Compares the incident to accidentally sending personal messages to the wrong contact, trivializing the national security implications.

Pakman criticizes this analogy as indicative of a broader strategy to minimize accountability and protect the administration’s image.

Broader Commentary on Authoritarianism and Constitutional Rights

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing the erosion of constitutional principles under the Trump administration. Pakman highlights statements from Fox News’ Brian Kilmeade and Attorney General Pam Bondi that suggest a disregard for due process and constitutional rights.

1. Brian Kilmeade’s Stance on Due Process:

   • Brian Kilmeade (52:38): “If we're going to give every these guys a day in court and a lawyer, we can't do it. They don't deserve it.”

   Pakman laments Kilmeade’s blatant dismissal of due process, emphasizing that it is a fundamental constitutional right applicable to all individuals, regardless of citizenship status.

2. Pam Bondi’s Advocacy for the Death Penalty Without Due Process:

   • Pam Bondi (57:57): “We will prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law… violent criminals will face the death penalty.”

   Pakman critiques Bondi’s inflammatory statements, arguing that the administration is promoting a system where punishment is meted out without fair legal procedures, thereby undermining the rule of law and democratic principles.

Conclusion and Implications for National Security and Governance

Throughout the episode, Pakman weaves a narrative of a deteriorating national security framework plagued by incompetence, dishonesty, and authoritarian tendencies within the Trump administration. He underscores the dangers of undermining constitutional rights and the importance of accountability in preserving democratic institutions.

Pakman concludes by warning listeners about the slippery slope towards authoritarianism, where the suspension of fundamental rights begins with targeted groups and can expand to broader populations. He calls for vigilance and support for progressive independent media as crucial bulwarks against these authoritarian encroachments.

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Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump (00:07): "Complete and total national security scandal, the likes of which might completely take down prior administrations."

• David Pakman (01:49): "They are completely lying and they are running a failing cover-up of a complete and total national security scandal."

• Tulsi Gabbard (19:39): "Of all the people out there, somehow this guy who has lied about the President... he's the one that somehow gets on somebody's contact and then gets sucked into this group."

• Pete Hegseth (29:37): "So the Secretary of Defense is the original classification authority for DoD in deciding what would be classified information."

• Caroline Levitt (35:07): "President Trump absolutely has the full confidence in his national security team."

• Brian Kilmeade (52:38): "If we're going to give every these guys a day in court and a lawyer, we can't do it. They don't deserve it."

• Pam Bondi (57:57): "We're seeking the death penalty again… everyone will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Serious National Security Breach: The inadvertent inclusion of Jeffrey Goldberg in a Signal chat containing sensitive war plans signifies a profound lapse in national security protocols within the Trump administration.

2. Contradictory Narratives: Conflicting explanations from Trump and his staffers suggest an attempt to obfuscate the truth and avoid accountability.

3. Media Complicity: The support from Fox News personalities in downplaying the scandal indicates a coordinated effort to minimize the perceived severity of the breach.

4. Erosion of Constitutional Principles: Statements from administration officials advocate for the suspension of due process, aligning with authoritarian practices that undermine democratic values.

5. Call for Accountability: Pakman emphasizes the need for transparency, adherence to constitutional rights, and resistance against authoritarian tendencies to preserve national security and democratic integrity.

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This episode of The David Pakman Show serves as a comprehensive analysis of the unfolding national security scandal, highlighting systemic issues within the Trump administration and the broader implications for governance and constitutional rights in the United States.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Welcome to the show. Complete and total national security scandal, the likes of which might completely take down prior administrations. And Trump and the team around him now struggling to tell any lie they can to give any excuse they can come up with for the disaster that took place, wherein war plans that should have been classified. The should is a critical part of the story. War plans that should have been classified were sent to an Atlantic journalist named Jeffrey Goldberg after he was included in a signal chat. Let's go all the way back to the beginning. The critical question, how on earth did Jeffrey Goldberg end up in this signal chat? Trump's new idea, which runs completely counter to every. Everything we know. They're all lying. They're all trying to cover it up. Trump's latest line is that somebody, somebody, some staffer added Jeffrey Goldberg. This is counter to all of the facts, but it's Trump's latest meltdown. Take a listen.

[Donald Trump]

What it was, we believe is somebody that was on the line with permission, somebody that was with Mike Waltz, worked for Mike Waltz at a lower level, had, I guess, Goldberg's number were called through the app and somehow this guy ended up on the call. Now, it wasn't classified, as I understand it. There was no classified information, there was no problem, and the attack was a tremendous success. So I can only go by what I've been told. I wasn't involved in it, but I.

[David Pakman]

Was told by, he had nothing to do with it, nothing was classified, everything's fine. Just a little mix up. The problem is that this is a very different explanation from the one that we got from Mike, Mike Waltz himself. And we'll get to that a little bit later. Waltz has said a staffer was not responsible. And Trump is now saying, we believe that some lower level staffer is responsible for this. Waltz is saying A, and Trump is saying definitely not A. What's probably true is that they're all lying. They're, they're all completely lying and they are running a failing cover up of a complete and total national security scandal, which is a humiliating scandal. The truth seems to be that Mike Waltz did add Jeffrey Goldberg. We have the screenshots. Jeffrey Goldberg, because of all of the character assassination against him, has now taken to publishing a whole bunch of this stuff. And you can see very clearly it says Michael Waltz added you to the group. Now, are you going to claim that, oh, a low level staffer for Waltz got access to Walt's phone? Is that the new claim? Or is it that Jeffrey Goldberg doctored these screenshots with every revealed bit of information? They need to go back and come up with a new lie. We are going to continue following the Trump meltdown on this. We're going to hear from Mike Waltz. But just a couple other quick things from this really weird Newsmax interview. Donald Trump also mentioned in this interview he's looking at a compensation fund for the January 6th rioters. If you can imagine now.

[Donald Trump]

But I took care of him. I said I was going to, and I did.

[David Pakman]

Is there any talk because they lost opportunity, they lost income, any kind of compensation fund?

[Donald Trump]

Well, there's talk about that. We have a lot of people talk about. A lot of the people that are in government now talk about it because they. A lot of the people in government really liked that group of people. They were patriots as far as I was concerned. I talked about. I talk about them a lot. They were treated very unfairly. You know, the thing they show is they show a group of a thousand, whatever it may have been, 1500 people down, what they don't show. You never see the crowd that day. It was the biggest crowd I've ever spoken before. It went all the way to the Washington Monument. It was so wide. And you couldn't. You virtually couldn't see anything else. But people, they never show that. Whether it was a million people or less than a million, I don't know what it was. But, you know, I see Bernie Sanders has a few people out there. They say, oh, the crowd is so big. They don't talk about the crowds. But a group of people went down there anyway.

[David Pakman]

So they're looking at compensation for the rioters. Insurrection now comes with a pension plan, I guess you could say. These are, of course, people who should be in prison, not pardoned, and certainly not getting reparations of sorts. Trump continued the nonsense by saying he really liked Ashley Babbitt. Ashley Babbitt was a good person, of course. Remember, Ashley Babbitt was shot while climbing through a window that rioters had smashed. Multiple clips showing exactly what happened. It doesn't matter to Trump. He just lies with a straight face and says, Ashley Babbitt, that was a good family of. Ashley Babbitt is suing the government wrongful death. The DOJ right now, officially, is still opposing that lawsuit, trying to justify it. Shouldn't that be something that can just be settled at this point?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I'll look into that. I mean, you're just telling me that for the first time, I haven't heard that. I'm a big fan of Ashley Babbitt. Okay. And Ashley Babbitt was a really good person who was a big MAGA fan, Trump fan. And she was innocently standing there, they even say, trying to sort of hold back the crowd, Right?

[David Pakman]

She was really there actually doing crowd control. And then just out of nowhere, she got shot. And of course, not a single investigation turned up that that's what happened. And then finally, really not a delusion of grandeur. Donald Trump says it's conceivable that someone saved him, someone being God, so that he could then save the country.

[Donald Trump]

Think, you know, somebody said that God saved me in order to save this country. Somebody said that this country was going down, Greg. If this election wasn't won, this country had no chance. This country is going to be. Remember I used to say for years we're going to be Venezuela on steroids.

[David Pakman]

Right?

[Donald Trump]

And that's what was happening to the country. And now we're turning it around, and I think we're turning it around fast.

[David Pakman]

Yes, God saved Trump, but killed an innocent man standing behind Trump when he redirected that bullet. Wow. Wow, what a. What. What must it be like to live in a world if where you believe this is how things work? But Trump's doing it. And I want to get back to the national security scandal. A panicked Donald Trump continues to try to defend the disaster leaks involving SIGNAL and Jeffrey Goldberg, war plans, attack plans, Yemen and the Houthi, Tulsi Gabbard, Pete Hegseth, Mike Waltz. Just wait till we look at the testimony a little bit later. In every single interview, in every single public appearance, Trump's explanation for what happened is different. Even yesterday now, well, after this scandal had broken, before coming up with his first wrong explanation for what took place, Trump again said, I don't know a thing about it. I'd rather all of us be in person.

[Donald Trump]

I don't know anything about signal. I wasn't involved in this. But I just heard about it, and I hear it's used by a lot of groups. It's used by the media a lot. It's used by a lot of the military.

[David Pakman]

Yes, the media also use it. This is like a Hitler also breathed oxygen sort of thing. Listen, if Signal so bad the media uses Signal, you should go after them. Right? But the media doesn't plan wars. That's sort of like a key difference.

[Donald Trump]

Is up to me, everybody would be sitting in a room together. The room would have solid lead walls and a lead ceiling and a lead floor. But, you know, life doesn't always let you do that. I want to look into anything like that. I would. I would ask them. It's not really an FBI thing. It's really something having to do with security. Security like will somebody be able to break in? Are people able to break into conversations? And if that's true, we're going to have to find some other form of device.

[David Pakman]

There you go. We're going to need a different device or software or whatever. Now, one of the battle lines in figuring out what level of culpability there is here is whether or not classified information was shared in that signal chat. This is actually its own mess and I'm going to explain that to you in a moment. But first let's hear what Trump's line is as to the presence or lack thereof of classified information. Are you going to change any of.

[Kaitlan Collins]

The practices that your national security officials.

[David Pakman]

Used after a reporter was inadvertently recently.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Added to a group chat about attacks on Yemen?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I think it's a question I've been asked now and I've given a few answers and they've all been the same. We have an amazing group. Our national security now is stronger than it's ever been, ever. We have had a very, very successful, numerous attacks on that area. These are people that shoot down ships, not only our ships, ships all over the world. They're shooting down right out of the water and damaging them badly or they're going down. They're also shooting anything that happens to be flying in the area. We hit them very, very hard. There was no classified information as I understand it.

[David Pakman]

There was no classified information as I understand that. Now you might say this is super simple. There either was classified information shared or there wasn't. But here's the problem part of the Trump may be right, but that would only reveal a further layer of incompetence. Let me explain what I mean. The exact timing targets and assets of military operations is supposed to be classified. What might have happened is that in a second layer of incompetence, the Trump administration didn't classify it. It's, it's mind boggling how their incompetence on one front might make their incompetence on another front less legally problematic. In the DNI's own guidance which we're putting up on the screen here, information providing indication or advance warning that the US or its allies are preparing an attack is supposed to be classified. And then here is an example of the war plans that were sent. At 12:15, F18 will launch. At 145 a trigger based F18 first strike window will begin. Target terrorist is at his known location. So it should be on time. Strike drones will launch more F18 launching at 1410. At 1415, strike drones will be on the target. The first bombs will definitely drop. So the point here is we know what was shared and we know that by the DNA's guidance, it's supposed to be classified. It's conceivable that they didn't classify it out of an additional layer of incompetence with everything that they do. Now, Trump was asked specifically by Kaitlan Collins, who told you the information wasn't classified. Trump doesn't like the question he asked. For a different decades, that information was not classified. Another question, please. He doesn't want to answer that one. And then, of course, a fail safe is attack the media, attack the journalist, attack the Atlantic, attack Jeffrey Gold.

[Donald Trump]

From what I heard, the. The man that we're talking about, who's not somebody that I don't think most people have ever heard of, he left. He found it very boring and he left early. He got off the line very early.

[David Pakman]

Okay. Of course, off the line translates to Trump doesn't really understand what signal is. But maybe most importantly, one of the reasons this didn't become an even bigger national security fiasco is not because Goldberg was bored, but it's because he realized, I'm not supposed to be receiving this information. I don't have the clearance to receive this information. I am going to end my participation in this signal thread. They should be thanking Jeffrey Goldberg, not saying that he's a lowlife. Whatever. Now, just as an aside to show you how wacky these events are, Trump did mention that he's going to investigate the Pizzagate conspiracy.

[Donald Trump]

Brian, I just want to follow up on that.

[David Pakman]

If. And by the way, the person asking this question is Marjorie Taylor Greene's boyfriend.

[Donald Trump]

Planned Parenthood is defunded. Would you look into the harm harvesting.

[David Pakman]

Of baby organs that they've done throughout.

[Donald Trump]

The years and maybe go after some.

[David Pakman]

Criminal prosecution on that?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I think you're talking about a subject that is a heated subject.

[David Pakman]

Right.

[Donald Trump]

And we'll look into it. We're going to look into everything. But that's certainly a subject that's been debated for a long time.

[David Pakman]

That's right. We call it Pizzagate, and it is a wild and wacky conspiracy theory. Because of Brian Glenn's presence now in this press corps, that wild and wacky conspiracy theory is right inside the Cabinet meeting room. And then finally, as Trump likes to say, groceries. Not a word you hear a lot, but it's a very descriptive word.

[Donald Trump]

But we brought eggs down at a level that nobody thought we could get at. I inherited that situation and I inherited a grocery situation. The groceries went way up. An old fashioned word, but it's a very descriptive word. Groceries have gone through the roof and I used to campaign on it. I used to say we're going to get groceries down and we have got it down, right?

[David Pakman]

Very old fashioned word. I mean, who's ever heard of the word groceries? But groceries are real and Trump has done it. And he's also done it with, as he calls them, a very, very compelling stuff. After the break, what does Mike Waltz say about how Jeffrey Goldberg ended up in the Signal Chat? It's completely different than what Trump is saying. The Echo Machine, my first nonfiction book is out. Please review the book on Amazon especially, but also Barnes and Noble and Goodreads. The reviews are starting to come in, some very funny ones, by the way, which which I featured on my social media. If you've not gotten the book, please do. But if you did, please review it is the critical thing at this point in time. Let's take a quick break. Back right after this.

[Mike Waltz]

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[David Pakman]

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[Mike Waltz]

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[David Pakman]

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[Tulsi Gabbard]

You know, Laura, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but of all the people out there, somehow this guy who has lied about the President, who has lied to Gold Star families, lied to their attorneys and gone to Russia hoax, gone to just all kinds of links to lie and smear the President of the United States and he's the one that somehow gets on somebody's contact and then gets sucked into this group.

[David Pakman]

Is someone in your president very, very suspicious, isn't it? Listen, Mike, you got to come up with something better than this. First of all, there is zero evidence for what he is suggesting. He's suggesting some kind of subterfuge. It's too suspicious. This guy that isn't nice to us, suddenly he's the one on the Signal chat. No, no, no. Something must have happened here. And of course he's suggesting hacking or some kind of malfeasance. Number one, no evidence of that. Secondly, if it were true, if it were true, that would suggest they shouldn't have been doing this on Signal to begin with. Because if what he is alluding to is even possible, it would only confirm you shouldn't be using Signal for this. And of course, part of the issue here is nobody in that chat said, hey, this shouldn't be discussed on Signal. That's a reinforcement that they use Signal for this sort of thing all the time. And then third, Goldberg reported that Mike Waltz sent him a personal Signal invitation two days before he was added to the group. And indeed it is Mike Waltz who invited him to the group. So it is a very, very weak explanation. Now, as of course, you have to do if you work for Donald Trump. He has to lay down like a doormat and say, sir, please walk all over me. I would like another and quite a Freudian slip here. Take a listen.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Of global commerce is getting rerouted. The world owes the President a favor, or excuse me, thank you for taking this on and fixing this problem.

[David Pakman]

Everybody owes Trump a favor. Oh, no, I mean a thank you. Both, of course, are indicative of, of the sort of worshiping of Trump that you are required to do. But Trump would certainly agree everybody owes him a favor. And then finally, what lesson did National Security Adviser Mike Waltz learn from this entire Signal fiasco? Not that you shouldn't use Signal for planning war crimes or work. Now, I'm now I'm the one with the Freudian slip. I don't know that there were crimes, war attacks, elements of war. Not only should you not be using Signal for that, that's not what. That's not what he learned. He learned that journalists are really bad. Learned. Lessons learned after the. Well, we're not using Signal app anymore.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Right. Lesson learned, number one is you've got journalists out there who have made fame and fortune trying to trash this president. And so, look, we've got to tighten up. We are tightening up and we have some of the best technology minds looking at how this happens.

[David Pakman]

Yeah. If you don't listen, you don't need a technological genius to figure out how this happened. In fact, lack of technological genius is probably to blame. The real problem, of course, is the journalists. It's. It's Goldberg's fault that he was added to the Signal chat. That's the final point on it. Tulsi Gabbard suffered a complete failure to explain anything. You will see her in this clip using words. Okay. I mean, she is speaking. She is synthesizing synapses in her brain into speech. But beyond that, it's hard to say she's really saying anything. She was questioned yesterday by a number of senators. And it's really bad. It's really, really bad. Here is Senator Mark Warner asking questions about what happened. And Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard, who has no business even having a security clearance. She couldn't pass an FBI background check if she were subjected to one, which she wasn't. And she is the Director of National Intelligence. And she simply refuses to substantively address the story. This is tough to listen to.

[Pete Hegseth]

You are not TG on this group chat.

[Caroline Levitt]

I'm not going to get into the specifics.

[Pete Hegseth]

You refuse to acknowledge whether you are.

[Caroline Levitt]

On this group chat, Senator? I'm not going to get into this.

[Pete Hegseth]

Why are you. Why are you going to get into specifics? Is this. Is it because it's all classified?

[Caroline Levitt]

Because this is currently under review by the National Security?

[Pete Hegseth]

Because it's all classified. If it's not classified. Share the text.

[Caroline Levitt]

Now, as the White House previously, is.

[Pete Hegseth]

It classified or non classified information on.

[Caroline Levitt]

This text I can confirm.

[Pete Hegseth]

Radcliffe. Were you on the group chat, Senator? I was on a signal messaging group. So you were the John Ratcliffe on that chat? I was. Thank you. Thank you. Can I provide some context, Senator, to that? Yes, but I've got a series of questions directly. But I think it's important because at the outset you made a couple of comments about Signal messaging using encrypted apps. So that we're clear, one of the first things that happened when I was confirmed as CIA director was signal was loaded onto my computer at the CIA as it is for most CIA officers. One of the things that I was briefed on very early, Senator, was by the CIA records management folks about, about the use of signal as a permissible work use. It is, that is a practice that preceded the current administration to the Biden administration. I've got a series of questions. I, I, you know, do you, if you're making the statement, if you're making the statement, the signal is a secure channel. No, Can I, can I answer that? It is, I've got a decryption. So it is my understanding it is permissible to use, to communicate and coordinate for work purposes. Provided, provided, Senator, that any decisions that are made are also recorded through formal channels. So those were procedures, procedures that were implemented. My staff implemented those processes, desperate to filibuster, followed those processes, complied with and, and, and finally, just please. So my communications, to be clear, in a signal message group were entirely permissible and lawful and did not include classified information. We will, we will make that determination nation. Because if it's not classified, share the text with the committee.

[David Pakman]

And of course, the problem is the lack of classification, if indeed it is, the reality is part of the problem because as I told you earlier in the show, everything that was being shared in that text thread is supposed to be classified. Tulsi knows it, or she should because she's the Director of National Intelligence. We'll get to that. Okay, we then get to another series of questions. Here, here is Senator Reid. Take a listen to this. Director Gabbard, were you overseas during any parts of these discussions?

[Caroline Levitt]

Yes, Senator, I was.

[David Pakman]

Were you using your private phone or a public phone for the signal discussions?

[Caroline Levitt]

I won't speak to this because it's under review by the National Security Council.

[David Pakman]

And I'm so sorry to interrupt. She's now used this phrase a couple of times. Something being under review by the National Security Council, they're acting like it's a trump card. It sort of trumps Donald Trump's. My tax returns are under audit. So until the audits finish, I'm not going to be able to show them or I can't speak to any, you know, Supreme Court justice nominees who say, oh, I can't really answer that because it's an issue that might come before the court and it's important for me not to speculate. She's acting like a Review by the National Security Council as a valid reason for non response. It's not.

[Caroline Levitt]

Once that review is complete, I'm sure we'll share the results with the committee.

[David Pakman]

What is under review? It's a very simple question. You, which phone were you using? Private phone or officially issued file? What could be under review?

[Caroline Levitt]

National Security Council is reviewing all aspects of how this came to be, how the journalist was inadvertently added to the group chat and what occurred within that chat across the board.

[David Pakman]

But. So you were not going to disclose anything about whether you use the phone? Nope. She's just not going to answer. Then Senator Mark Kelly had a turn and interestingly asked, do you all know that you're not allowed to to discuss even controlled unclassified information on unsecured devices? So question one is, was this stuff classified? It should have been. It seems it may not have been. Mark Kelly goes further. He goes, even the lack of classification would not be permissible material.

[Pete Hegseth]

So I understand that DoD policy prohibits discussion of even what is called controlled uncle. Classified information or CUI on unsecured devices. Are both of you aware of that DoD policy?

[Caroline Levitt]

I haven't read that policy.

[Pete Hegseth]

Not familiar with the DoD policy, but I would say that the Secretary of Defense is the original classification authority for DoD in deciding what would be classified information.

[Donald Trump]

There you go.

[David Pakman]

Your DNI and your director of the CIA don't actually know what the policy is on a lot of this stuff. And then finally, Tulsi just won't answer questions.

[Pete Hegseth]

In the signal chain that we have been talking about, was there any mention of a target in Yemen?

[David Pakman]

Remember, we now know the answer is yes. We have the screenshots. Okay, so just, just like she's about to answer, we know now that the answer is yes.

[Caroline Levitt]

I don't remember mention of specific targets, any generic target. I believe there was discussion around targets in general, Mr. Ratcliffe.

[Pete Hegseth]

I think that's consistent with my recollection. Again, I don't have access to that. Was there, Was there any mention, Ms. Gabbard, of a weapon or weapons system?

[Caroline Levitt]

I don't recall specific weapons systems being named.

[David Pakman]

We know the answer is yes.

[Pete Hegseth]

I'm not talking about specific any weapon or weapon system.

[Caroline Levitt]

I don't recall specific names of systems or weapons being used.

[David Pakman]

Her memory suddenly very, very shaky. So we're building up a list. We already saw Mike Waltz's handling of this. He should be fired. We have seen Ratcliffe's and Gabbard's involvement. They should be fired. Let's now talk about Pete Hegseth. Pete, Hegseth the Secretary of defense was asked a question yesterday, which is, did you declassify the information you put into the Signal chat that involved discussions of fourth then forthcoming attacks in Yemen? I am going to play Hegseth's answer, and what you will notice is that he does not address the question. There's a reason why. I will tell you In a moment, Mr. Secretary. The messages the White House called authentic did, at the very least, include sensitive.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Details about targets and timing. Did you declassify that information before you.

[David Pakman]

Put it in the chat? And are you using Signal to discuss.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Operations as sensitive as the strikes against the Houthis on a government or a personal phone?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

First, all I would say is the strikes against the Houthis that night were devastatingly effective, and I'm incredibly proud of the courage and skill of the troops. And they are ongoing and continue to be devastatingly effective. The last place I would want to be right now is a Houthi in Yemen who wants to disrupt freedom of navigation. So the skill and courage of our troops is on full display. It's a complete opposite approach from the fecklessness of the Biden administration. President Trump said peace through strength will be brought back.

[David Pakman]

You might be wondering, does he know the question? Oh, he knows it. He's just not answering.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Freedom of navigation will return. And that's exactly what we're doing. As I also stated yesterday, nobody's texting war plans. And that's all I have to say about.

[David Pakman]

So the one substantive answer was a lie. Nobody's texting war plans. Jeffrey Goldberg has released them. We showed them to you earlier in the show. You would have to be first of all, this. This response inspires no confidence. No confidence. They are counting on you believing this bullshit. They are lying about everything. There were no war plans. We've got the text messages now. There must have been some kind of subterfuge or hacking that led Jeffrey Goldberg to end up in this chat. Zero evidence of that whatsoever. Finally, and this is completely beyond parody, Hegseth says the way they are evaluating people is how good they are at doing their jobs. That's really funny. Programs.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

My assessment is the DoD will be merit based and colorblind. You will be judged based on how good you are at your job.

[Pete Hegseth]

Full stop.

[David Pakman]

Really? That's it.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

And so getting rid of diversity, equity, inclusion, dei, getting rid of different standards was fundamental to getting back to basics. And that's what I. When I get a chance to talk to commanders here, that's what I emphasize.

[David Pakman]

We're getting zero Self awareness because of course Pete Hegseth is only the Secretary of Defense due to a loyalty version of dei. What knowledge did Pete Hegseth possess that made him a good candidate for Secretary of Defense? What temperamental characteristics did Pete Hegseth have that made him a good candidate for Secretary of Defense? What experience did he have? None. He was there because of a form of affirmative action and D.I. that is loyalty to Trump. Above qualifications, above experience, above knowledge and above merit. And the lack of self awareness by him saying that is stunning. He should also be fired. Caroline Levitt is Donald Trump's press secretary, at least as of today. And she delivered a borderline criminal meltdown over the text message scandal. I'm going to play an interview she did with Fox News. Jesse Watters. This is North Korean Soviet style propaganda where it would even make the North Korean news anchors blush. Listen to the confidence and the condescension which with with which she delivers blatant lies and disinformation to the American people. It is beyond belief, but this is what Trump wants. Take a look.

[Jesse Watters]

White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt joins me now. So does the president have full confidence in his national security team?

[Kaitlan Collins]

President Trump absolutely has the full confidence in his national security team, Jesse. That includes our great national security adviser.

[David Pakman]

Mike Waltz, Secretary, who has already been caught lying about what happened, Terry. Pete Hegseth who has already been caught lying about what happened.

[Kaitlan Collins]

And the American people should be grateful to these individuals and especially to President Trump for putting together such a competent and highly qualified team straight out of.

[David Pakman]

The cult playbook scandal. They did something terrible. They get confronted, they go. Every single one of you should be grateful that Donald Trump is the president and that he selected these great people to be in the cabinet. This is how cults operate who are.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Killing terrorists that the Biden administration allowed to run wild in the Middle East. And that is the real story here. We had Houthi terrorists firing at American naval ships and commercial vessels in the Red Sea. The Biden administration removed the foreign terrorist designation from this radical terrorist group, allowed them to take these actions, put American lives at risk, shut down the freedom of navigation in the seas.

[David Pakman]

And you can tell she's lying because her lips are moving and also because she's not substantively dealing with the question, which they never do.

[Kaitlan Collins]

And because of the effort of my colleagues and President Trump, we are now killing these terrorists. We have redesignated them as a foreign terrorist organization and Americans in the world are safer because of it.

[Jesse Watters]

So it's kind of strange that of all people, Jeffrey Goldberg entered this chat.

[David Pakman]

And now, speaking of entering the chat, Jesse Watters jumps in to help the disinformation. It's very suspicious that this particular reporter was ending up here.

[Jesse Watters]

Could have been an accident on your team's side, but it also could have been something a little more mischievous. Oh, on Goldberg side, as you heard.

[David Pakman]

Walt say, yes, Goldberg hacked his way in.

[Jesse Watters]

What do you think about this character?

[Kaitlan Collins]

It certainly could have been more mischievous. As Mike Waltz alluded to in the previous hour, we are working very hard to find out how this number was inadvertently added to the group chat. It remains a mystery.

[David Pakman]

We're going to have to hire Elon to investigate it, but we hope that.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Soon it will be solved. And as you heard from the National Security Adviser, Elon Musk, team of experts are looking at this. The White House Counsel's office and the National Security Council are all digging into this matter.

[David Pakman]

And what's the. What's the theme here? Another authoritarian theme? So first it was the cult theme. You should be grateful for the leader. They're out there saying the leader did something bad. You should be grateful for the leader. That's number one. Number two, attack the media. Any opportunity to attack the media, they welcome.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Of course, to ensure this can never happen again. And as you so rightfully pointed out, the President and the National Security Adviser himself have taken responsibility and recognize that we are moving forward to ensure that communications are secure.

[David Pakman]

Of course, suggesting someone might have hacked in or that the media is lying or. Or using other forms of disinformation is not taking responsibility. I don't think they know how to take responsibility.

[Kaitlan Collins]

And there is nothing better. The Democrats, there's nothing that they're better at than spinning a sensationalist story out of a basic set of facts. And the President and our team have been incredibly transparent about what happened. No classified information was shared in this group chat.

[David Pakman]

Now, this is another hook on which they're hanging their hats and scarves and whatever that the information was not classified. If it's true. There are two problems with that. Number one, the DoD guidelines say even unclassified information of this kind still isn't supposed to be shared. They don't. They claimed Gabbard and Ratcliffe said we're not aware of that policy. So if the information was unclassified, it's still not supposed to be shared. But more importantly, according to Tulsi Gabbard. Tulsi is the Director of National Intelligence. She oversees the guidelines for what's supposed to be classified. If not classified. It was supposed to be. So it's not really the trump card to say, don't worry, it wasn't classified anyway.

[Kaitlan Collins]

But the Democrats would have you believe we have a national security crisis on our hands when we absolutely do not. It's the same playbook they ran with the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, which was a perfect phone call between and then.

[David Pakman]

I'm going to stop it here because it's so nauseating. But then she transitions into talking about other things not directly related to this. A borderline criminal meltdown. You know, we wonder, how long can she last? She's doing a good job of lying about everything. From Trump's perspective, she might have the wheels to last four years. Another day, another Tesla story. What is going on with this company? Well, if you go to Ground News slash Pacman, you will see how some outlets are covering Tesla and Elon Musk compared to others. The story really is one story, but the way it's told really can change your perspective. And this is the exact picture problem that our partners at Ground News help to solve. Ground News is the only site that shows you how political bias and financial incentives and even blind spots shape the narratives in the news that you read. Otherwise, you're letting billionaires and political agendas shape everything from public opinion to policy. See every side of the news story, read the news from multiple perspectives and see through the media bias with reliable news from local and international sources. Go to Ground News slash Pacman to get the same top tier vantage plan that I use at nearly half the cost, just five bucks a month. The link is in the description. I want to introduce you to an amazing tool that has helped a huge number of people reach their health goals. It is called Lumen and it's the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath and on the app it'll tell you, are you burning fat or carbs? And give you tailored guidance to improve nutrition, workouts, even stress management. Your metabolism is like the engine of your body, how you turn food into fuel. And because your metabolism is at the center of everything your body does, optimal metabolic health can translate to to many benefits, including easier weight management and improved energy levels and fitness results. It's a long list. Lumen gives you recommendations to improve metabolic health based on the context of your breath measurement, whether that's first thing in the morning, before and after meals or workouts. And you can get 20% off your lumen by going to Lumen Me Pacman, that's L U M E N.me/pacman for 20% off. The link is in the podcast notes. There's no better way to describe the COVID up that the Trump administration is attempting after the Signal chat fiasco than to say they are effing around and now they are finding out. Every single lie that they are telling is subsequently being debunked by the information now being released by the Atlantic and by Jeffrey Goldberg. I'm going to give you the next example and we've covered this in sort of pieces throughout the show, but it is fascinating how quickly they are just being destroyed. Donald Trump's press secretary, Caroline Levitt posted a message to X. She posted a tweet, some people call it an excretion wherein she says the Atlantic has conceded these were not war plans. This entire story was another hoax written by a Trump hater who is well known for his sensationalist spin. And what she cites as her proof in this excretion on X is that the phrase attack plans was used. Now I want you to really understand what's going on here. Their initial insistence was this was not classified information. Now that may be true because it appears as though they may have failed to classify it, but it should have been classified. And we now know Based on the DoD policy around sharing of such information, even if it's not classified, even if it's correctly not classified, which we dispute, but even if it were correctly not classified, you're still not allowed to share it in such a venue. So the next sort of battle line was these are not war plans. This is, this is an attack plan, but it's simply a linguistic misdirection because we can put them back on the screen. We now see that these are war plans. Pete Hegseth sent a message. Team update Weather is favorable. Confirmed with CENTCOM. We are a go for mission launch. 12:15 Eastern F18 will launch the first strike package. 13:45 Eastern trigger based F18 first strike window starts. Target terrorist at his known location should be on time. Strike drones will launch MQ nines, even mentioning specific equipment. 14:10 more F18s will launch. This is the second strike package. 14:15 strike drones on target. This is when the first bombs will definitely drop. Pending earlier trigger based targets. 15:36 F18 second strike starts. Also first sea based Tomahawks launched. Tulsi was asked were weapons or weapons systems mentioned. She said, oh, I just don't remember. Well, here they are mentioned many, many times. This is a meaningless distinction without a difference. Suddenly they're talking about not really a war plan. It's an attack plan. My guess, if you press them on it is they would go, no, war plans would be more general. War plan would be like, hey, we are going to be launching an initiative in Yemen against the Houthis for these reasons. But of course, that's so generic. And that was already announced publicly that that is completely meaningless. This is exactly what they said was not released. And I think we really have to look carefully here at the approach being taken by the Atlantic because they are only releasing what is necessary to disprove the lies being told about them. When Jeffrey Goldberg first wrote that this was what happened, 10 different lies came in. And so he is slowly releasing what is necessary to prove that he is not lying. And so far, and we should look at this with objectivity and we should simply analyze the statement and analyze what information we have. So far, every single allegation that has been made about Jeffrey Goldberg has been debunked. And so this is now leading to a pathetic attempt to run cover. They're bringing in all of their allies, and we should look at a couple. Here's a video of how Fox News propagandist Jesse Watters explained what is objectively a national security catastrophe to his viewers. We now know that someone leaked actual US War plans to a journalist that the Atlantic over Signal. Now, when we say someone and leaked, we still don't exactly know why he ended up on the Signal thread, but we know that he did. And we know that, at least as far as the screenshots are concerned, it was Mike Waltz who added him. Okay, that's not gossip. It's not campaign strategy. War plans were given to a member of the press on on the Signal app. Here is Jesse Watters employing smug sarcasm and basically saying the problem is really the Atlantic.

[Jesse Watters]

Ever try to start a group text. You're adding people and you accidentally add the wrong person.

[David Pakman]

Right.

[Jesse Watters]

All of a sudden, your Aunt Mary knows all your raunchy plans for the bachelor party. Well, that kind of happened today with the Trump administration.

[David Pakman]

Kind of.

[Jesse Watters]

Mike Walsh was putting together a group chat on Signal, an encrypted app with the Secretary of Defense, the VP and a bunch of other national security officials to collaborate on whether to strike Iranian proxies in Yemen who keep firing missiles and shutting down shipping.

[David Pakman]

Right.

[Jesse Watters]

Well, national security adviser Mike Waltz accidentally added a reporter to the group text. And not a good reporter.

[David Pakman]

Jeffrey Goldberg from the Always Attack the.

[Jesse Watters]

Media, one of the biggest hoax artists around. Well, he heard some things he probably shouldn't have, but could have been a wee Bit of a security breach. But it's not like they homebrewed a server and then bleached it or kept classified documents in their garages next to their Corvette.

[David Pakman]

Talk about someone else. Always the subsequent strategy. This is not journalism, this is damage control. Okay? This is what state TV looks, looks like. You minimize threats, you mock accountability, you pretend the real scandal is that someone else did something some other time. And the real takeaway from the way that Jesse Waters chose to handle this is that when he likens a massive national security breach to a WhatsApp mishap or texting the wrong person the plans, oops, I texted my ex something that was meant for my current girlfriend or something like that. It is part of the COVID up campaign. Now helping in this cover up campaign is also maga. Mike Johnson here is what he had to say.

[Donald Trump]

What you did see though, I think was top level officials doing their, their.

[David Pakman]

Job, doing it well and executing on.

[Pete Hegseth]

A, on a plan with precision. That mission was a success.

[Donald Trump]

No one was jeopardized because of it.

[David Pakman]

We're grateful for that. But they will certainly, I'm sure, make sure that that doesn't happen. Mike Johnson's approach is, you know what I really learned from this is wow, they are operating the, the, the operation in Yemen with extraordinary precision. That's really the takeaway. Forget about national security breach, forget about the humiliating nature of it. Forget about the fact that this is information that may have wrongly not even been classified. Which raises even more questions about Tulsi Gabbard's competence and whether the entire Department of Intelligence is even remotely operating competently. No, no, no, no, no. The takeaway was, wow, our military is really doing an awesome job. This is not going to stop. They will keep covering it up like this until the story is replaced or supplanted with the next scandal. How do we know that? Because it's what they do every single time. Do you ever feel like it's tough to stay focused? I've sometimes struggled with it and Brain FM's Focus Music has really helped me find my GR. I used to think background music from Spotify or YouTube would help me focus, but I ended up distracted and then I'd start looking for better tracks that would actually help. Then I found Brain fm. It's not just another music app. It's really music designed for when you are trying to do deep work. It's science back. The modes can be for deep work or more creativity, focus or motivation. They have a turbo mode designed to support ADHD brains, Brain FM's music works within minutes and it delivers results. A peer reviewed study showed that Brain FM's music boosts attention, especially for people with adhd tendencies. Brain FM's Focus Music is the only music made to support ADHD Brains and Brain FM is the only music app funded by the National Science foundation because of their unique audio technology that changes the patterns in your brain. With Brain FM I am locked in. The distractions go away, the productivity just happens and my audience can try it for free for 30 days. When you go to brain.fm/pacman, you can get access to Brain FM's entire library of science supported Focus Music for an entire month, totally free. I think you'll find that as useful as I do. Go to brain.fm/pacman. The link is in the podcast Notes One of the propagandists over at Fox News is now saying the quiet part out loud, which is he doesn't think that due process should apply to anybody. I'm talking here about Brian Kilmeade. And Brian Kilmeade says, you know, with all these deportations and everything Trump's doing and Tom Homan and the ICE raids, it's just not practical to give due process to everybody. A lawyer, a day in court. No, no, no, no, no. They don't deserve it and we just can't do it. Which is another principle, Constitution, due process, another principle that they claim to support out the window. Let's take a listen to what he had to say and then we'll talk about it. I also think it's not practical to think that we can do due process.

[Donald Trump]

On 8 million people. There's 22 million people here and minimum legal, illegal or already just in the last three administrations.

[David Pakman]

Right? And there are some people that got.

[Donald Trump]

Through with Trump's administration. If we're going to give every these guys a day in court and a lawyer, we can't do it. They don't deserve it. Our system doesn't need to be double burdened.

[David Pakman]

They are so nonchalant about taking people's rights away when it's inconvenient. They claim that rights are the most important thing. They claim that the Constitution is the most important pillar of our society. But all of a sudden following the law is not practical. The Constitution is not practical. What Kilmeade is calling for here is the suspension of constitutional rights, not for a few people, not in an emergency, but as a blanket policy for millions of human beings. And he's saying it on national TV like he wants a different coffee mug for his water on the set of Fox News. Due process is not some kind of bonus feature of American life. This, it really is the bedrock of the rule of law. It's a principle that the government can't punish you or detain you or deport you without a fair legal procedure. And this comes directly from the 5th and from the 14th Amendments of the Constitution. No person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law. And the scary part is that this is not like a fringe voice. This is a major host on the most watched cable channel, cable news channel in the United States. And he just casually floats this idea that millions of people should be punished or deported without a trial, without a lawyer, without a defense. Now, once you carve out a group, maybe it's immigrants, maybe it's refugees, maybe illegals. Once you carve out a group and you decide they don't deserve rights, it doesn't stop there because then someone will say, well, look at this other group that's also very dangerous. This one's not practical either. Here's another group of people that doesn't deserve it. This is really textbook expansion of authoritarianism. This is how it works. You start by suspending the rights of, for a group of people that the public has already been primed to either dislike or to fear. You normalize that, you make it policy. And then the next step is that you've built a legal system based on you determining who deserves rights. And then you say, here's another group that we are going to deprive certain rights to. Now I, it would be, it's important for me to mention not every constitutional right applies equally to non citizens. So for example, the right to vote in federal elections is only for US Citizens. So the folks who push this stuff often point to, we don't give every right to noncitizens necessarily. And in a sense, federal election voting is just for US Citizens. Jury service is limited to citizens in most jurisdictions. There are certain federal jobs or security clearances. They're only open to citizens. Second Amendment protections. Gun ownership we're talking about can be restricted for noncitizens, especially undocumented immigrants or those who are here temporarily. We know that the right to enter and remain in the US Is governed by immigration law. And non citizens can be removed under certain conditions that would never apply to citizens. But due process specifically is not optional. It does apply to noncitizens. The Supreme Court has been really clear. When you look at the Fifth Amendment and the 14th Amendment and how they protect persons, it does mean all persons and not just citizens. So if we were a country ruled by law, and if Republicans really believed in the importance of the Constitution and due process, it means noncitizens who are here have a right to fair legal procedures. Before a government can come in and say, we're taking your liberty or we're taking your property, or we're taking even more than that, potentially, even if someone is here illegally, they have a right to a hearing, they have a right to challenge deportation, and they have a right to avoid indefinite detention and be treated with basic legal fairness. Now, I know the reaction for many on the right is, hold on a second. They come here illegally, and now we need to waste money in order to prove that it is time to send them back? Yes, that's the way it works. Either you respect due process and the rule of law, or you don't. And every single one of these people that says they hold the Constitution as their highest sort of standard, and then they go along with what Brian Kilmeade is saying, you're not actually following your own principles. Donald Trump sat grinning like either a proud dad or a creepy stalker, while the Attorney General, Pam Bondi, shredded the Constitution in real time. Pam Bondi went full fascist. Okay, take a listen to what she had to say, and then check out the look on Trump's face.

[Pam Bondi]

And if you've committed fraud, we're coming after you. Thank you, Ellen, for that. On the violent crime level, thanks to President Trump's directive, we are seeking the death penalty again. So all of these horrible violent criminals that you're hearing about around the country, they will face the death penalty federally within our country. And the drug dealers need to get out of here because we are coming after you. We're going to have 94 great US attorneys around this country, and everyone will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you.

[Pam Bondi]

Thank you, President. That's your directive.

[Donald Trump]

I couldn't have said that better. That's.

[David Pakman]

Look at Trump just drooling.

[Donald Trump]

That's very good. A fantastic job. Thanks, Pam.

[David Pakman]

Now, you will notice not any mention of the importance of due process in any of this. No mention of the importance of a fair trial, evidence, courts, appeals. Just they will be facing the death penalty. Because when they say law and order, what they mean is punishment without process. We've seen it with the deportations. Is it too much to imagine that it might mean even more than that, justice as a political stunt? And Trump is sitting there nodding and loving absolutely every second of it. Now, one other aspect to this, the sucking up to Elon. To Elon Trump, to Elon Musk is. It is nauseating. And there was a hell of a.

[Pam Bondi]

Lot as far as the. We are hearing a lot about fraud, waste and abuse, a lot of waste and abuse. But there is a tremendous amount of fraud. And Elon, thank you for your partnership. Thank you for your team. You have uncovered so much fraud in our government, and we will prosecute you.

[David Pakman]

Okay, that, that, that didn't come out quite right. Elon, you have found so much fraud, and we will prosecute you. Obviously, she means the fraudsters, but it came out weird.

[Pam Bondi]

We have an internal task force now working with every agency sitting here at this table. And if you've committed fraud, we're coming after you. Thank you, Elon, for that.

[David Pakman]

Yeah. Under Trump and Bondi, prosecution is a tool. It can be a favor, it can be used as a threat, it can be used as a weapon to be handed out at rallies, depending on who's clapping the loudest. And this is not how democracy is supposed to work. Prosecutors don't promise executions. Okay. Attorneys general don't base criminal or shouldn't base criminal investigations on what Elon Musk decides to Tweet that a 23 year old given the keys to the castle thinks they found when looking through some database. And the rule of law isn't supposed to bend to applause lines. And so really none of this is about crime. You know, as I've said before, if this were really about crime, all of the fraud they claim to have found would lead to arrests and prosecutions. Fraud is a crime. And what we really see, the meaning by fraud is stuff Trump doesn't like. Stuff that is inconvenient or antithetical to their political agenda, but not antithetical to the law. This is all about promising your base that your political enemies are going to suffer and that then the state is going to look the other way when you do the punishing. And while Pam Bondi makes this, these threats and act like she's sounding normal, Trump grins. Because that's the plan. This has always been the plan. On today's bonus show, we are going to talk about the latest with the mega jail holding deported Venezuelans and Kristi Noem's trip down there, we will also talk about Elena Haba. Haba getting a cushy job as U.S. attorney in New Jersey. She really deserves the job, right? And then this is one many of you wrote in about Texas. Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett mocked Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas, who uses a wheelchair as governor. Hot Wheels. This has become very divisive in the audience where there are some saying we are this is her stooping to the level of making fun of disability and then others saying why should we maintain a decorum that they don't care about? And that this is exactly the right way to be talking. So we're going to talk about it on the bonus show today. All of those stories and more you will get when you sign up@join pacman.com really appreciate all of our new members. Remember that my book is out it initial. There was such demand that Amazon was delayed on shipping. Here's what happened. They now have the book at all regional distribution centers and overnight shipping is now happening. Ok, so the book's available. Available everywhere. Please review the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and Goodreads. You can just, you know, people think overview. I've got to sit over a typewriter with a scotch thinking what to say. No, you can just say, important book at this point in time tells me a lot about history that I didn't know. Interesting ideas for the future of the Democratic Party. It can be as simple as one line. Okay, so we'll feature some of the more interesting reviews later this week. I'll see you on the bonus show. I'll see you back here tomorrow.