3/27/25: We have no idea who is running the White House

Summary

The David Pakman Show: We Have No Idea Who Is Running the White House

Release Date: March 27, 2025
Host: David Pakman

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Introduction

In this episode of The David Pakman Show, host David Pakman delves into the perplexing leadership dynamics within the White House under President Donald Trump. Pakman expresses deep concern over the apparent lack of awareness and control Trump exhibits regarding critical national security issues and policy decisions. The episode also explores the troubling behavior of Trump’s press secretary, Caroline Levitt, and the broader implications of a cult-like following surrounding the former president.

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The Signal Fiasco and Leadership Deficit

The episode opens with Pakman addressing the alarming situation surrounding leaked American military plans on the Signal app. He criticizes both President Biden and former President Trump for their handling—or lack thereof—of national security matters.

• Donald Trump's Response to Signal Leak:

  • [01:17] "Hexag is doing a great job. He had nothing to do with this. Look, look, it's all a witch hunt."
  • Pakman highlights Trump's baffling attempt to deflect responsibility by blaming the Signal app for the chaos resulting from the leak.

• Pakman's Critique:

  • [01:53] "Trump doesn't even know what Signal is. He just a couple days ago he hadn't even heard of Signal."
  • He underscores the severity of the situation, where detailed military plans, including weapons systems and strike timings, were exposed, yet Trump remains seemingly oblivious.

Trump’s Lack of Awareness on Critical Issues

Pakman draws parallels between Trump's current administration and Biden's, emphasizing a recurring theme of top leadership being out of touch with significant events.

• Troop Deaths in Lithuania:
  • [03:17] "I haven't heard a thing about it," - Trump
  • [03:24] Pakman points out the gravity of the situation where four American troops died, and Trump's dismissive response raises questions about his involvement and awareness.

Questionable Policy Statements

Pakman criticizes Trump's recent statements on women's fertilization policies, labeling them as grotesque and indicative of a deeper disconnect from meaningful policy-making.

• Donald Trump's Statements on Fertilization:
  • [07:20] "Between the fertilization and all of the other things that we're talking about, it's going to be, it's going to be great."
  • Pakman mocks the ambiguity and inappropriateness of tying fertilization to women's rights, suggesting it as a rebranding effort for Trump's stance on abortion without substantive policy backing.

Press Secretary Caroline Levitt’s Controversial Exchanges

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the interactions between reporter Kaitlan Collins and Trump's press secretary, Caroline Levitt, during the Signal leak controversy.

• Levitt’s Dismissive Attitude:

  • [15:14] "Caitlin, I am not taking your follow up. They don't like it. They simply don't want to actually be pressed on this."
  • Pakman criticizes Levitt for avoiding substantive answers, perpetuating misinformation, and her apparent allegiance to the administration’s narrative despite mounting evidence of mismanagement.

• Investigation Oversight:

  • Levitt admits multiple teams, including Elon Musk’s technical experts, are involved in investigating the Signal leak, which Pakman finds unnecessary and indicative of deep-seated issues within the administration.

Republican Figures and Internal Strife

Pakman examines the responses of various Republican figures, notably Marco Rubio, who appears to distance himself from the Signal fiasco, subtly blaming National Security Adviser Mike Waltz.

• Marco Rubio’s Statement:
  • [23:46] "Someone made a big mistake and added a journalist."
  • Pakman interprets Rubio’s comments as a preemptive move to dissociate from the leak, highlighting the internal turmoil and lack of accountability within the Trump administration.

Cult-like Loyalty of Trump’s Base

A critical analysis is provided on the unwavering and cult-like loyalty of Trump’s supporters, suggesting that his base will remain loyal irrespective of his actions.

• Pakman's Insight:
  • "We no longer are dealing with a political movement. We're dealing with a cult. Trump is functionally infallible now..."
  • He draws parallels between Trump’s leadership and authoritarian figures, emphasizing the psychological control and unwavering support despite increasingly authoritarian actions.

Authoritarian Actions and Propaganda

The episode scrutinizes the Trump administration's authoritarian tactics, including the use of propaganda and manipulation of free speech.

• Kristi Noem’s Propaganda Video:
  • [50:35] Kristi Noem appears in a staged video at El Salvador's Seekot mega prison, promoting harsh immigration policies.
  • Pakman condemns this as fascist stagecraft aimed at normalizing cruel immigration practices and bypassing due process, reinforcing the administration’s disregard for the rule of law.

Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Public Meltdown

Pakman highlights an incident involving Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who reacts hostilely to a reporter’s questions about national security.

• Greene’s Reaction:
  • [55:54] "What country are you from? ... Why don’t you go back to your country?"
  • Pakman criticizes Greene’s aggressive deflection of legitimate security concerns, portraying it as symptomatic of the broader dysfunction within the Republican Party.

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Conclusion and Future Outlook

David Pakman wraps up the episode by emphasizing the perilous state of the current administration, characterized by mismanagement, authoritarian tendencies, and a deeply divided political landscape. He underscores the importance of voter turnout and informed activism to counteract the entrenched power structures and cult-like loyalty surrounding Trump. Pakman also hints at upcoming bonus topics, including the impact of new tariffs, Elon Musk’s involvement in the Signal investigation, and the future of Democratic leadership.

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Notable Quotes

• David Pakman on Trump’s Leadership:

  • [00:07] "You stop and you ask yourself, who the hell is actually running the White House right now."

• Donald Trump on Signal Leak:

  • [01:32] "We are talking about some of the greatest business deals ever made... I think Signal could be defective."

• Caroline Levitt on Investigation:

  • [14:34] "I have this answer three times... The president feels the same today as he did yesterday."

• Marco Rubio on Signal Fiasco:

  • [23:46] "Someone made a big mistake and added a journalist."

• Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Meltdown:

  • [55:54] "What country are you from? ... Why don’t you go back to your country?"

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Key Takeaways

1. Leadership Deficit: President Trump exhibits a concerning lack of awareness and control over critical national security issues, raising questions about the true leadership within the White House.

2. Press Relations: Caroline Levitt, Trump’s press secretary, consistently avoids substantive responses, perpetuating misinformation and shielding the administration from accountability.

3. Internal Republican Struggles: Figures like Marco Rubio attempt to distance themselves from the administration’s failures, highlighting internal conflicts and a potential unraveling of unified Republican support.

4. Cult-like Following: Trump’s base demonstrates unwavering loyalty, exhibiting traits akin to a political cult, which poses significant challenges to democratic accountability and effective governance.

5. Authoritarian Tendencies: The administration employs authoritarian tactics and propaganda to maintain control, bypass due process, and manipulate public perception, particularly concerning immigration and national security.

6. Political Dysfunction: Incidents like Marjorie Taylor Greene’s hostile interactions with the press exemplify the broader dysfunction and extremism within the current political landscape.

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This episode of The David Pakman Show serves as a critical examination of the Trump administration’s leadership and the entrenched loyalty of its base, highlighting the urgent need for informed activism and voter engagement to address the multifaceted challenges facing American democracy.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Foreign.

Welcome, everybody. We start today with a really sad moment. It genuinely makes me sad that this is where we are. You stop and you ask yourself, who the hell is actually running the White House right now? And we don't have an answer now for all of Joe Biden's failings, he was slowing down. He looked really old. He didn't seem to have the energy for all of those failings. We didn't have situations with Joe Biden where he just simply said, I don't know anything about that. I don't know. This is the first I'm hearing of it. And yet we have that not once, but multiple times a day with Donald Trump. And the latest only brings up even more of those questions. Let me build up to that. Donald Trump taking a few questions sitting in the Oval Office desk yesterday. First topic was the Signal fiasco. Pete Hegseth demands for resignations, etc. And Trump says, I don't know why you would blame Hegseth for anything. The problem seems to be that Signal app. Trump actually suggesting maybe it's the app that's defective and that's the reason for all of this chaos. If you can imagine a sillier claim.

[Caroline Levitt]

Should Secretary Hegseth consider his position over the Signal.

[Donald Trump]

Hexag is doing a great job. He had nothing to do with this. How do you bring Hegseth into it? He had nothing to do. Look, look, it's all a witch hunt.

[David Pakman]

Here.

[Donald Trump]

We are talking about some of the greatest business deals ever made. The greatest companies in the world are moving into the United States, and you want to ask about whether or not Signal works. I don't know that Signal works. I think Signal could be defective, to be honest with you. And I think that's what we have to because you use Signal and we use Signal and everybody uses Signal. But it could be a defective platform and we're going to have to find that out.

[David Pakman]

Trump doesn't even know what Signal is. He just a couple days ago he hadn't even heard of Signal. And he says Hegseth had nothing to do with it. Hegseth leaked detailed American military plans in a Signal chat. It included weapons systems. It included the exact timing down to the minute of strikes that were planned on the Houthis. And Trump's response is basically, he's doing great. The app must be defective. That's not a defense. Sounds almost like you would see in an SNL of skit making fun of this situation if the skit were written by someone with a concussion. The only thing Trump cares about really are tariffs, TV and golf. And he seems so checked out of his job that he doesn't even seem to know or acknowledge that Pete Hegseth needlessly disclosed the weapons packages and the timing of attacks on the Houthis. But there's a worse part of this that really leads us to say, who is in charge and what is Donald Trump doing? Four American troops died in Lithuania. News of it was reported hours before this late afternoon early evening event with Donald Trump. And when Trump is asked about it, he says, I haven't heard a thing.

[Donald Trump]

About it, but it could be a defective platform and we're going to have to find that answer.

[David Pakman]

Have you been briefed about the soldiers in Lithuania who are missing?

[Donald Trump]

No, I haven't.

[David Pakman]

He claims he hasn't been briefed about it. Doesn't seem very worried about it either. Hours after the lives of troops were lost, Trump sits there and he goes, haven't heard a thing about it. This is the guy who knows within a minute if some D list actor said something mean about him on Twitter. But four American service members die overseas, and he's wandering around like someone unplugged his brain. And maybe the even bigger problem is that no one told him. And this really gets us to, you know, the allegation. I have this weird thing going on with my hair here, and it's extraordinarily distracting. I just fixed it. The. The show will be much better now that I address that. I think back to the claims they made about Biden. Someone else is really in charge. Biden doesn't know what's going on. And yet Biden was never unaware, hours after major events of relevance, like service members dying. Biden never said. Nobody's told me about it. And the fact that let's. Let's assume Trump's telling the truth, right? Because sometimes Trump goes, oh, this is the first time hearing about it because he doesn't want to talk about it. I don't think that's the case. Trump genuinely seems to have no idea. Look, does this look like the face of a guy who has an idea? I think that the bigger issue, arguably, is that the White House is sort of in a vicious cycle of doom where people aren't telling Trump things because they know he'll either explode or forget what they said, so they don't tell him about it. So Trump's not informed, which of course only perpetuates that he is increasingly just a figurehead. Understand the sequence. Trump didn't know about the signal leaks. He didn't know about the soldiers dying in Lithuania. He blames the messaging app for a breach of classified information or information that is supposed to be classified. And meanwhile, he has a cabinet that's either too afraid or too checked out to keep him informed. And it's a national security disaster masquerading as a presidency. Don't forget, by the way, when four Americans died in Benghazi, Republicans held 10 investigations, a full select committee, and demanded hours and hours of Hillary Clinton's testimony, years of hearings. We have four troops dead. Military secrets, weapons system usage and timing are leaking, and Trump has no idea about most of it. And then is blaming signal. Sort of like your uncle is convinced that he did something on Facebook and just something mysterious happened and you don't know why, when, of course, it's user error. So, again, the question isn't what happened, it's who is even in charge here? Because Trump does not seem to have any idea what is going on. Now, I don't know the answer, but a plausible one would be that it's the yes people that Trump has around him that are in charge. I mean, there's another aspect to the signal thread. Trump's not in the signal thread. Now, I know you would say, well, why would you expect him to be in it? No, I got it. But the point here is the decisions and the communication all seems to be happening not only not involving Trump, but without Trump even being aware that it's going on. This is exactly what they said was going on under Biden, but it's happening under Donald Trump. All right, Donald Trump is now disgustingly promising goodies for women when it comes to fertilization. That's. I mean, this is nauseating. It's vomitus. The guy who once said women should be punished for having abortions is now calling himself the fertilization president. And I'm so sorry if people are eating as they listen to this. Does he think we're talking about crops here? I'm going to be the guy who fertilizes everything. Listen to this.

[Donald Trump]

You're doing great on it. And we're going to have tremendous, tremendous goodies in the bag for women to the women. Between the fertilization and all of the other things that we're talking about, it's going to be, it's going to be great.

[David Pakman]

Oh, yeah.

[Donald Trump]

We're joined today. Fertilization. I'm, I'm still very proud of it. I don't care. I'll be known as the fertilization president.

[David Pakman]

That.

[Donald Trump]

That's okay. That's not bad.

[David Pakman]

Let. Let's just. Let. Let's pause here for a moment and just acknowledge how grotesquely weird this is. Fertilization as a policy point. I mean, what. What does that even mean? What is he talking about now? I'm not claiming he's talking about forced pregnancies. Is this an IVF thing? I think maybe it is. Is it about abortion bans? Does Trump even know? But aside from how disgusting this is to hear Trump just kind of grin and talk about how much he loves fertilization. Trump doesn't talk about women's rights. He talks about women like he's trying to win a raffle giveaway at a county fair. We're going to give them fertilization goodies. This is how you would expect to talk about, like, a cheap shampoo sample, not reproductive rights. And of course, there's the obvious, which is that Trump is again trying to rebrand his catastrophic position on abortion. It's not helping him or Republicans in terms of favorability. So he's reaching for some new framing how he's all about fertilization while still trying to appease the forced birth crowd. You know, fertilization sounds kind of proactive, like he's helping people, when in reality, he's the guy who appointed the Supreme Court justices that gutted Roe v. Wade. No one. No one asked to be governed by a man who wants to be remembered as the fertilization president. But Trump once again manages to say the quiet part out loud in a way that's terrifying, but it's also just gross. I mean, it's just. It's vile. It's. It's vile. And the primary takeaway is this is not policy and this is not leadership. It's really an old man playing Mad libs with women's bodies. Fertilization. I'm about fertilization. And yes, we should be disgusted. It is completely disgusting. I want to say a thank you to everyone who's reviewed my book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and Goodreads. The book is out. The supply chain issue. Who. Who. Whoever heard about Supply chain before me? The supply chain issue that we were facing seems to have been resolved. The books are now available for even same day, if not overnight delivery on Amazon. There was this brief period where they were taking four days. We don't know why, but Amazon fixed it. The critical thing right now, assuming you've ordered the book, is please review the book. So, some very funny reviews. I am seeing them. We are looking at them very strongly. We will feature some of them. I appreciate everybody who's been doing it. Let's take a quick break. So much to talk about today. Big companies with poor security get hacked.

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[David Pakman]

Try Aura free for two weeks. The link is in the podcast Notes Another day, another Tesla story. What is going on with this company? Well, if you go to ground.news/pacman, you will see how some outlets are covering Tesla and Elon Musk compared to others. The story really is one story, but the way it's told really can change your perspective and this is the exact problem that our partners at Ground News help to solve. Ground News is the only site that shows you how political bias and financial incentives and even blind spots shape the narratives in the news that you read. Otherwise, you're letting billionaires and political agendas shape everything from public opinion to policy. See every side of the news story, read the news from multiple perspectives and see through the media bias with reliable news from local and international sources. Go to ground.news/pacman to get the same top tier vantage plan that I use at nearly half the cost. Just five bucks a month. The link is in the description. The David Pakman show is an independent progressive media program. As a result, we do depend primarily on your support to do what we do. Our main source of funding for everything staff salaries, the studio, connectivity, marketing, distribution, hosting, all of it. The primary source is just folks who listen to the podcast or watch the YouTube channel. The downside to this is is that I have to mention it on the show so that people know that this is how we are funded. The upside to this is that there's no one person who can say, david, I don't like what you're doing, David, I don't like what you're saying. You've got to cover these other stories. You have to say this stuff. And there's no one person that can shut us down. A small price to pay. A small price to pay for total independence. So I invite you to sign up@join pacman.com we do an extra show every day for our members. And you can read about all of the other perks@join pacman.com Donald Trump's press secretary Caroline Levitt was completely triggered and flipped out on CNN reporter Kaitlan Collins when Kaitlan wanted to ask a follow up question. You know, now that Donald Trump has personally seen the messages in the Signal Group chat, including Secretary of Defense Pete Hegg says that saying this is when the first bombs will drop. Does Trump feel misled after he was told this was no big deal? Here's how Caroline Levitt answers that question.

[Caroline Levitt]

One on a follow up on something you just said. But since we have these messages released and you said that the president has now personally reviewed them at the chat. At one point Pete Hexeth wrote 1415 strike drones on target and in all caps. He said this is when the first bombs will definitely drop. Does the president feel that he was misled by his National Security advisors, whoever it was that told him there was no classified information in there now that he's seen these messages? I've now been asked and answered this question three times by the both of you and I've given you my answer. The president feels the same today as he did yesterday. Sorry, I might follow up on what you had. Just go ahead. Philip. I'm not taking your follow up. I have a follow up on something you said though.

[David Pakman]

Caitlin, I am not taking your follow up. They don't like it. They simply don't want to actually be pressed on this. Now the truth of it is that the entire classified information aspect to this is getting more complex because the information may have wrongly been unclassified. And I don't want to keep going over this detail, but it does bear repeating because there's two critically important aspects to this. Number one, even if the information was not classified, it's still against DoD policy to share it on Signal. So even unclassified people did the wrong thing. They should be fired. In addition to this, there are guidelines for what's supposed to be classified from the Director of National Intelligence, that's Tulsi Gabbard. And this type of information is supposed to be classified. So if it wasn't classified, it's not the get out of jail free card that they are claiming it to be. Caroline Levitt doesn't care. She doesn't want to hear from Kaitlan Collins. Now, another reporter asked about resignations, including mentioning that Dave Portnoy from Barstool Sports said National Security Adviser Mike Waltz should leave. Here's what she had to say. You just clarify who is investigating, who's leading that. And also, Dave Port Portnoy, who endorsed President Trump, said today that he thinks that Mike Waltz should leave. Could you respond to that?

[Caroline Levitt]

Sure. Great respect for Dave Portnoy. But I just answered that previous question from Jennifer. As for your original question about who's leading, looking into the messaging thread, the National Security Council, the White House counsel's office, and also, yes, Elon Musk's team. Elon Musk has offered to put his technical experts on this to figure out.

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[Caroline Levitt]

Guy was inadvertently added to the chat again to take responsibility and ensure this can never happen again.

[David Pakman]

You know what's so funny? Put aside for a second the absurdity of involving Elon Musk and everything and that he has no business with any of this stuff. Why do you need Ellen's technical experts to tell us Mike Waltz added Jeffrey Goldberg to the chat? We have the screenshots. It's not been disputed in anything beyond propaganda means of, oh, there must have been subterfuge or maybe it's hacking or whatever the case may be. Just why do you even need three different teams and Elon's technical experts to tell us what we can all see? All right, finally, maybe the moment that would make even a Soviet propaganda person blush. Levitt says that the thing that we really learned from the signal fiasco is just how great everybody is. That works for Trump and his team.

[Caroline Levitt]

And this message also shows this messaging thread also proved that President Trump has an incredibly dynamic team who is working incredibly hard, flying all over the world to secure world peace and to fix up the foreign policy crisis, policies that the previous administration left for this team to inherit.

[David Pakman]

You know, she actually could last the four years because she seems so damn committed to the lies and the propaganda and the misdirection, she could potentially stick it out. All right, FOX News had Democratic Congressman Jason Crow on to talk about the US Strikes in Yemen, to talk about the signal fiasco, to talk about all of these different things. And let's be very honest, they probably expected the usual kind of punching bag dynamic. You throw a smug question at Jason Crow, you get a mealy mouth dancer, you declare victory. But the interview was with Will Kaine. I've appeared on Will Kaine's show before and it was, it was quite an exercise in frustration. It didn't happen that way because Jason Crow was ready. And Jason Crow humiliated Will Cain on his own show. Let's take a listen. I have two more questions. Was the location of those strikes in that messaging?

[Jason Crow]

I don't believe the locations were, but that doesn't matter. What the targets.

[Caroline Levitt]

Another question.

[David Pakman]

Let me explain.

[Caroline Levitt]

The targets were the target.

[Jason Crow]

These are regional, Will. These are regional air defense systems. These are regional air defense systems. Let me explain how an SA3 and an S. A6 works.

[David Pakman]

Will doesn't want to be explained to.

[Jason Crow]

These are the two systems that the Houthis have that they got from the Russians. If they know that aircraft are flying over a region or an area, not even a specific target, they can launch an SA3 and an SA6 much like they did when they shot down the MQ9 Reaper drone last year. So they don't need to know the exact location. So here you have people on this signal text chain, one of whom by the way, was sitting in Moscow when this happened. It was sitting in Moscow, the most dangerous environment in the world for a cell phone. And they were saying, Congressman, that we are.

[David Pakman]

I know the details.

[Jason Crow]

So I, and everybody watching could have shot him down.

[David Pakman]

Kaine is trying to manufacture some kind of scandal. Okay? What Cain is trying to do is he's trying to argue that this is all a hoax, that there's much ado about nothing with this entire story because unless the exact GPS coordinates were in the signal chat, it's just not a big deal. But what Crow calmly and surgically does here is explain that when you leak regional air defense systems and the timing of the attacks, that's enough. That's enough for hostile actors to move into, hide and to plan. You don't have to gift wrap the coordinates and tell them exactly the GPS coordinates. The leak was already dangerous and that's what makes this moment so important. Crow walks in, speaks like an adult and explains to Will Kane that what he's doing is, is done seemingly out of ignorance, maybe out of malice. You, you know, don't attribute to malice that which can be explained adequately by ignorance, but levels the allegation on Fox News, his own air. And Crow does it without raising his voice. He doesn't play their game. He just says this is the way it works. And one of the things that these kind of like back the blue support the troops type conservatives, which is what Will Kaine is one of the things that that always happens is the principles of everything go out the window when it's politically inconvenient. The they claim to be the biggest offenders of the military always. And now we have a situation where the military, thanks to Jeffrey Goldberg not publishing this stuff when he got it and leaving the signal thread, it didn't happen. But this action by Hegseth and Waltz and Tulsi and all of them could have endangered members of the military. It could have endangered operations, it could have endangered allies and assets abroad. But all of a sudden that's not the primary concern for Will Kaine, who for years has said, I support the troops, I'm so patriotic. It's all great, rah, rah, rah. Now all of a sudden it's, you know, no GPS coordinates, not really a big deal. Think about if the shoe had been on the other foot. Think about if Democrats had leaked this exact same information, Fox News would be calling for televised executions on the White House lawn. But because it's Trump's world's Trump, world's golden boy, Pete Hegseth, suddenly it's was it really that serious? Did it have like a pin drop location the way you would send to someone, hey, come meet me at this place. So this is the game. We know the game. Manufacture doubt, gaslight your audience, hope no one who knows what they're talking about shows up. Well, Jason Crow showed up. He happens to know what he's talking about and he made him look like clowns. Things are getting very ugly inside Camp Trump. The MAGA ship has sprung a leak and Marco Rubio just threw fellow Trump ally Mike Waltz overboard to go and patch the hole. Let me explain what's going on here. Marco Rubio is looking very much like a man who very much doesn't want to be associated with with the dumbest national security breach of the year, maybe the decade, the signal chat where detailed military plans were leaked. Rubio's message is crystal clear here. Someone made a very big mistake. And of course, we all know that the someone is Mike Waltz. This is Rubio starting, starting with the friendly fire civil war because he wants to be out of the way with when the other shoe drops. Take a look.

[Marco Rubio]

First question, let me just say on the signal thing, this thing was set up for purposes of coordinating how everyone was going to call, you know, when these things happen, I need to call foreign ministers, especially of our close allies. We need to notify members of Congress. Other members of the team have different people they need to notify as well. And that was the purpose of why it was set up. Obviously, someone made a mistake. Someone made a big mistake and added a journalist. Nothing against journalists, but you ain't supposed to be on that thing. So they got on there and this happened.

[David Pakman]

Someone. Someone. We all know who that someone is. And Marco Rubio is not playing coy with subterfuge about hacking. He's not suggesting any of the various explanations that have been given so far. He's simply saying someone added Jeffrey Goldberg, and that's the problem. And we all know who that is. It's Mike Waltz, its National security adviser. Mike Waltz, the guy who created the signal group in the first place. This is the closest we've gotten in this entire time to a Republican breaking ranks. Big mistake is basically an expletive in MAGA world where Trump has never taken responsibility for anything and where Trump has never apologized for anything. And that that sort of MO Is what trickles down to everybody that works for Trump. The fact that Rubio said it at all tells you something. What Rubio is doing here is building a wall. Not between the US And Mexico. He's putting a wall between himself and Mike Waltz because he sees what's coming. The leak is a disaster, and the incompetence is contagious. But even as Marco Rubio is sort of like lightly pointing towards Waltz here, he's still running cleanup when the topic of classified information.

[Marco Rubio]

And. And again, I think the Pentagon's made it clear that nothing on there would have endangered the lives or the mission. And the mission's been very successful. They classified the information. Well, the Pentagon says it was not. And not only did it say it was not, they make very clear that it didn't put in danger anyone's life or the mission, the intelligence.

[David Pakman]

So, of course, the problem here with this is that Rubio is falling for the exact same nonsense, which is, if it is true that it wasn't classified, it was wrongly not classified, I won't go over the details again because we've done it so many times. And still, by the way, still, even as he starts to kind of create this distinction and say a big mistake was made, he's throwing Mike Waltz under the bus. Marco Rubio is still lying here by saying there were no war plans very.

[Marco Rubio]

Successful to classify the information. Well, the Pentagon says it was not. And not only did it say it was not. They make very clear that it didn't put in danger anyone's life or the mission. There was no intelligence information. And understand when this story first broke, they were sort of alluding to, were there war maps, were there this. There was no war plans on there. This was a sort of description of what we could inform our counterparts around the world when the time came to do so.

[David Pakman]

So here he is, completely on board with the lie that they have manufactured. So here's the real story. Rubio's concern here is not national security. He's playing political defense. He's preemptively cutting Waltz loose. So when the blowback hits, he can say, listen, I said it was a big mistake. Someone made a big mistake. We now know who that someone is. I'm one of the reasonable ones. This is what we might call the MAGA panic dance. The leak happens. You blame nobody directly. You say the intel that was shared really wasn't that bad or that damaging. You quietly exile someone who was loyal just yesterday. And this is what a MAGA civil war looks like in the Trump movement. It's not dramatic speeches. It's cold, quiet betrayal, sort of. One press conference at a time, there will be another shoe that drops. It'll be interesting to see who it is.

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[David Pakman]

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[David Pakman]

Well, I'm so sorry to have to bring you this news today, but at this point, we need to stop asking whether the MAGA base will ever turn on Donald Trump and just start accepting the fact that they won't ever. A Trump could sell American citizens into slavery, cancel elections, declare martial law, invade Canada. His ardent hardcore followers would say he must have had a good reason to do it, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt. So we no longer are dealing with a political movement. We're dealing with a cult. Trump is functionally infallible now, and we've spoken to cult experts from the fields of psychology and sociology to understand how cults work and how the cult leaders work. And Trump is now a golden God. It is sort of like a Kim Jong Un with a red baseball hat and a suit that's too big and Facebook groups instead of statues and military parades. Every action he takes, no matter how extreme or authoritarian or outright nuts, is immediately justified or ignored or reframed as strength by his followers, which are really common characteristics of cults. Run through some of the examples. He's been selling innocent migrants into literal work camps in El Salvador. He's arresting green card holders for speech. He's blowing up departments of government with no authority. He's ignoring court orders. He is shaking up the economy to put it lightly with tariffs and threats to our allies. He's floating, exiting Naito and openly siding with Russia. And really nothing from the base. Now, I know that you're probably hearing me say this and thinking, aren't some Republicans turning on him? Because, David, you've been showing us the videos of the town halls where Republicans seem really angry. Didn't we see fireworks there? Yes, we've seen the grumbling. We've seen retirees shouting at their members of Congress over Social Security cuts that they fear and voters demanding answers about health care and inflation. But they're not really turning on Trump. They're mad at their local representatives. They're mad at bureaucracy. They're mad at Congress, generically, or maybe they're even mad at Elon Musk. But you think they'd vote for a Democrat over Trump? Even given this anger, they still, in many cases, see Trump as an outsider fighting the system, even though Trump is the system at this point in time, it is a classic scapegoat tactic. The pain is real, but the blame is being misdirected at somebody else. And so as long as Donald Trump keeps selling the illusion that he. He's not the one in charge of the mess that was Elon, that was your local member of Congress that was a Democrat governor, as they like to say, they're going to keep eating it up. And if and until they draw a straight line from Trump's policies to their suffering to their wallet, to their house, none of this counts as breaking from the cult. If tomorrow Trump started deporting American citizens with no trial, this are cultists who would shrug and say they probably had it coming until they are the ones deported, at which point they would say, I never thought that they met me, which we've seen a number of examples of. If Trump started arresting judges or said, no midterms, it's just things are too crazy. We're going to skip the midterms or use the military to round up political opponents, would the hardcore base turn on him? I don't think so. Because they are in a psychological prison called authoritarian loyalty. You can't shame them with hypocrisy and double standards. We've seen that. You can't appeal to values they abandoned years ago because the values have been abandoned. You can't even reason with them because reason requires a line that can be crossed. And this is a cult that, that erased that line a very long time ago. And yet this is like the one thread of hope. Not everybody who voted for Trump is in the cult. And I know that a lot of you are probably hearing this and saying, well, then it's over. Like, I mean, we just. That's it. Not everybody who voted for Trump is a Trump cultist. There are standard issue anti government conservatives disengaged. Maybe some are vaguely racist, but I don't know. You know, they voted for the guy who said he'd fix the economy, and maybe now they're going to get crushed by it. And what Trump is doing, gutting many of our programs, which could lead to cuts in benefits, threatening Medicare, talking about fraud and Social Security, all this stuff stomping on the First Amendment, saying, we're going to look at social media histories of people here legally, I don't think this stuff will sit well forever. We with everybody, the retiring crowd is going to probably say, we don't like this. Those are some of the folks we're seeing at the Republican town halls. They want their checks. They may not care about authoritarianism, but they do care about their money. And maybe this is where some of the backlash could start. The hardcore base may never wake up, but if their bank accounts start getting drained and their benefits start getting slashed, there is a group that might. None of this means Trump is unstoppable that's the main takeaway. The cult is very loud. They're very angry. They're very loyal. They'll never turn on him. But it's not everyone. I would argue it's not even most people, because the majority of Americans are not in the MAGA base. The real danger here is when people start thinking it's all inevitable. Nobody can break the spell. It's not worth showing up. We shouldn't even try. That's really dangerous. That's what they want. But we know that with enough turnout and enough pressure and enough focus on the real material consequences of the policy, risks of losing health care or retirement benefits or stability, we can outnumber them at the ballot box. That's the upside. We've done it before. But it is clear that to the cult, this is a demigod and they will never abandon him. I hate to have to start today with bad news, but the Trump administration has just made it painfully clear that free speech is only free when it flatters the right people. Speech is only free when it shows loyalty to the cult leader and their designees. And one of those designees right now is a man, as far as we know, named Elon Musk. Republican Attorney General Pam Bondi went on Fox News this weekend to threaten Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett for daring to criticize the current Trump loyalist and golden child, Elon Musk. In six months, Musk may be worth nothing more to Trump than the gum on the bottom of his lifts. I mean, on his shoes, his lifted shoes. But right now, at least Musk checks the loyalty boxes. And so what we have is an elected official warning another elected official. In a sense, I understand Pam Bondi is not directly elected to ag, but Trump was elected and selected her, and she was confirmed. Okay, we have a judiciary official, the top prosecutor in the country, Pam Bondi, warning another elected official, Democratic Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, to tread carefully. Tread carefully. After Jasmine Crockett expressed support for the protest movement that is targeting Elon Musk's role in Trump's doge, which, by the way, is basically a smash and grab of what's left of the federal government. Crockett said she wants Elon Musk to go down through nonviolent protest, through financial pressure, the classic tactics of American activism, as legal and American as apple pie, which, by the way, I would never eat. I hate apple pie. But that doesn't matter. A lot of people like it. And Pam Bondi responded like she was quoting from a bad mob movie. Nothing will happen To Elon Musk, she said, which sounds a lot less like law enforcement and a lot more like protection, racketeering. Listen to Pam. Deals on Tesla vehicles and dealerships. Give us the consequences there. And what are you looking learning once they're arrested? Why are they doing this? Why? We have no idea. Why might they do this?

[Pam Bondi]

Well, you know, we're looking at so much on this. There have been three federal charges so far. And I say so far we are looking at all of these cases across the country. We have a dedicated task force. These are not isolated incidents, as you know. And these aren't vandals. These are Molotov cocktails, you know, that could be a weapon of mass destruction that they're throwing in Tesla dealerships, that, that they're, that they're lighting these Tesla charging stations on fire that are in residential neighborhoods. I mean, it could cause tremendous damage.

[David Pakman]

Why is everything a question? These are on fire. These are in residential neighborhoods. Is she telling us or is she asking us?

[Pam Bondi]

Yes. And people need to know. The three people in custody right now, they will receive severe and swift consequences. And, and they are facing up to 20 years in prison. We are not negotiating these. We are not coming off these charges. We are looking at everything, especially if this is a concerted effort. This is domestic terrorism. And, Maria, now you have this Congresswoman Crockett who is calling for attacks on Elon Musk on her birthday. Let's take him out on my birthday, she says. Yet she turns and says, oh, I'm not calling for violence. Violence. Well, she is an elected public official, and so she needs to tread very carefully because nothing will happen to Elon Musk. And we are going to fight to protect all of. All of, all of the Tesla owners throughout this country. And it's this basic safety. Once again, domestic terrorism is going to come to a stop in our country.

[David Pakman]

She throws in some terrorism charges there for good measure, because apparently damaging a Tesla is now considered domestic terrorism. But the armed insurrectionists at the Capitol were just participating in legitimate political discourse. Remember that? So, listen, I am going to say this again later. I am against people committing crimes in protest of Tesla. I'm against that. But this is something different because Jasmine Crockett has been clear. She's talking about legal activism. The Trump regime is using the Department of Justice like a blunt instrument. They're going after protesters. They're defending billionaire cronies. They're trying to criminalize dissent. And they also, by the way, say they don't want government interfering in private business. But then they are. And they're saying, this is the company we're going to protect. This is the company Trump's going to do an infomercial for on the White House lawn. So Elon Musk has now become, I mean, it's not an exaggeration to say, is this not reminiscent of Putin's Russia? Musk is now on the good boy list with Trump, and he is being made to be an untouchable oligarch whose critics must be silenced and threatened, even if they are members of Congress like Jasmine Crockett. This is not the rule of law. This is authoritarianism hiding behind the American flag. And we really shouldn't miss the bigger picture here, which is that this is an administration, this is a political movement, if we even zoom out, that loves to pretend it cares about free speech. They scream about cancel culture and wokeness when a tech platform removes hate speech or medical misinformation. But the moment that someone peacefully organizes against them in using methods that are free speech, that are part of capitalism, that are part of the free market, suddenly it's domestic terrorism. It's watch your mouth and it's weaponize the law against people for what they are saying. This isn't just hypocrisy. It is calculated and strategic. And it's a blueprint for authoritarianism and authoritarian control wrapped in a Fox News chiron. So if you still believe that Trump and his allies care about your rights, you are not just wrong, you're dangerously naive. And if this doesn't convince you, then let's just go to the latest announcement from Donald Trump. You want to see how to go on Fox News and turn around their failed narratives. Well, we know someone who did it. Our friend Greg Cassar, the Democratic congressman from Texas. He went on Fox News and demonstrated how Democrats can effectively message there. Let's check out a few short clips and talk about who may not know.

Elon Musk makes $8 million a day from the federal government. Why are they looking at cutting Medicaid, which serves single moms, people with disabilities or Social Security, instead of looking at the billions of dollars from the corporate class? It's because those corporations fund those Republican campaigns. I think that what's important for folks to know at home, again, even if you may disagree with me on this social issue or that one, is that every Republican member of Congress right now is looking to cut Medicaid. To be clear, though, Republican voters are opposed to Medicaid cuts, but the senator from Nebraska, or, sorry, North Dakota, you just had on, is talking about passing a bill next week to slash Medicaid by over $800 million. I mean, how is that, right? How is that representing the working class person in rural America? I don't get it.

This is exactly what Jamie Raskin and I talked about last week, which is the idea that they have nothing for you. Everything they're doing is either irrelevant to you, it helps someone and it doesn't help you, or it's actively bad for you. Greg Cassar is on message. Jon Ossoff was on message this weekend. We talked about that on yesterday's show.

Here's another against money being taken away from their taxpayer pockets and being handed out in federal contracts. So we should be having the conversation about how is it that Elon Musk, who makes $8 million a day from federal contracts.

Okay, so there's actually overlap here. This is not the right clip I meant to play. But we are going to persevere and continue.

You should be paying taxes to improve your life, not to make some billionaire buy their 10th jet.

To be fair, I don't think many of your Republican colleagues have any interest in touching Social Security. But I want to keep moving on here.

Your colleague Ro Khanna, to be fair, though. But to be fair, President Trump and Elon Musk just announced that they are closing Social Security offices and going to ask seniors and people with disabilities to go check in in person at Social Security offices that they've closed. And in rural areas or really suburban areas, that may be really hard to do. And then they'll call those Social Security recipients, quote, fraudsters and cut off their benefits. That's what they've announced. And well, Commerce Secretary who's a billionaire himself just said on television, oh, if my grandma misses a Social Security check, I think he said, my mother in law misses a Social Security check. She won't complain. Well, you're on, you're on the subcommittee though, right?

Yes, he's on the Doge subcommittee. That is absolutely true. And you can see the Fox host there scrambling for purchase as his talking points are decimated by Greg Cassar. Here's one more. Let's look at one more and then discuss.

I'm the chairman of the Progressive Caucus in Congress. I recognize some of the viewers at home disagree with me on a variety of social issues. But I think we can agree that Republican members of Congress have no business going along with Elon Musk slashing Social Security, destroying Medicaid and Medicare, firing veterans, all to give out tax breaks to billionaires. That's the message that Bernie Sanders has been consistent about and I believe that should be the new message of the Democratic Party, which I think could bring some conservatives back into the Democratic Party. If we agree that these programs we all pay for since literally World War II. Social Security should be expanded and protected, not ransacked by billionaires that want more money for themselves. You should work to be able to keep your money, not to make Elon Musk richer. You should be paying taxes to improve your life, not to make some billionaire buy their 10th jet.

This is really good stuff and I apologize that some of those clips had a little bit of overlap here and there. What is great about this is that it is simply telling people this stuff's not good for you. And there's a long history in this country of people voting against their own best interests. We talked about this ad nauseum in 2010 when it was the Tea Party saying we're going to cut taxes for the rich and poor and lower middle income people who were never going to be rich statistically were voting for it thinking either it'll someday, someday trickle down to me or, or the rich people have earned the lower taxes or whatever the case may be. Greg Cassar is absolutely spot on here and I don't want to get, I don't want to pretend like, oh, we've solved the problem here. But what I've seen over the last five days from Greg Cassar on Fox AOC and Bernie in person, John Ossoff at his rally in Georgia, Jamie Raskin on this show, there are people here whose messaging and whose language is now departing dramatically from old guard folks like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer not attacking them but simply saying it's a different, it's a different sort of Democrat. This is much better and I would argue it's much better than the way Kamala Harris campaigned with unclear, you know, well, we're going to do a $5,000 refundable tax credit. If you start a business to that they they're offering you nothing. They are simply the equivalent of robber barons. It's take, take, take for themselves. You're going to get screwed. Grandma's going to get screwed. This is the, this isn't a platform yet, but I'm starting to see the rumblings of what could be a very good direction for Democratic messaging. I'm going to be meeting with some folks about some of this stuff soon as well and we'll be providing my 2 cents as just someone in media, not a Democratic strategist. And I think that there is something here that is a seed that can be planted and now we've got to see if it grows into something. Really nice job there by Greg Cassar and we should really have him back on the show soon.

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[David Pakman]

PACMAN at checkout for 50% off your first order plus free shipping. The link is in the description. All right, I'm about to show you what I think is maybe the sickest shit they've ever done. This could be the most dystopian thing that the Trump team has done, at least so far in the second term, which is already saying something. Kristi Noem, Trump's homeland Security secretary, part time authoritarian cosplay enthusiast, just filmed a campaign style video inside El Salvador's Seekot mega prison, standing in front of of a cage of prisoners crowded together wearing no shirts. This is not a documentary. This is a propaganda shoot. It, it almost exceeds language's ability to describe the sick nature of this. Let's take a listen. She's got a warning for us here.

[Kristi Noem]

At seacot today and visiting this facility. And first of all, I want to thank El Salvador, Salvador and their president for their partnership with the United States of America to bring our terrorists here and to incarcerate them and have consequences for the violence that they have perpetuated in our communities. I also want everybody to know, if you come to our country illegally, this is one of the consequences you could face. First of all, do not come to our country illegally. You will be removed and you will be prosecuted. But know that this facility is one of the tools in our toolkit that we will use. Use if you commit crimes against the American people.

[David Pakman]

Here at seacon, Trump administration is deporting Venezuela's Venezuelans in large numbers, many without due process, wrongly using the 1798 Alien Enemies act, written for when people still used leeches for medicine, to El Salvador, a country to which many of these folks don't even have a connection, with no actual process to determine, have they even done the thing we're claiming they did? Do they have a legal claim to be here in the United States? A federal court told the Trump administration, stop it. Turn the planes around. They did it anyway. Some of these men were allegedly flagged for deportation because they have tattoos, not because they have weapons, not because they have criminal records, but because they have tattoos that the administration says prove that they are associated with a gang. But of course, it might mean you are a boxing fan, or it might be culturally related, or it could just. Right. This is the future that Donald Trump is building. No due process, mass deportation, sometimes to countries you're not even associated with, political theater inside foreign prisons and tattoos as probable cause for exile. And instead of doing what would be appropriate would be for them to be humiliated, that they are flouting the Constitution and due process and legal court orders. They should be cowering, humiliated that they claim to be the constitutionalists, but this is what they are doing. But instead they decide to turn it into a scene really more reminiscent of a mob movie than what should be foreign policy. They want the imagery. They want the fear. This is what authoritarians do. And when you put Kristi Noem in front of that prison cell on purpose to create a video you can pump through Facebook and Truth Social with the caption, this is what we do to the illegals. You are playing off of a complete indifference to the rule of law. Courts already said you're violating the law. Aclu, other groups are suing because this use of the Alien Enemies act is completely inappropriate based on the law. They are bypassing immigration law to create a parallel deportation system based on visuals and vibes. They do not care. It's about frightening immigrants. It's about frightening anyone who cares about immigrants. It's about breaking the law. But they want to understand that this imagery, after a court said, what you're doing is against the law. The imagery is meant to show us we do not care about the law. It's specifically about breaking the law and proving not only are we going to get away with it, we're not going to hide. I'll show up here and stand, stand in front here. And Kristi Noem seems thrilled to be the face of it. Look at the look on her face. This is not just cruelty, it's really fascist stagecraft. And they are trying to normalize it. And you know, I have to say, you look online at the usual places, a lot of the Magaz, the Maga Potamians, the Maga Donians, they love it. They love it. They say, this is strength. This is so good. We're finally going to show them. So when that's the reaction from your base, it can be harder than you think to build opposition to it. Radical and repugnant reactionary Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene had what I can only describe as a full on xenophobic meltdown on a British journalist, and it immediately blew up in her face. New look. Marjorie Taylor Greene, although I have to tell you, I don't know exactly what's different, but she looks completely different. This happened during a press scrum when Sky News reporter Martha Kellner dared to ask Marjorie Taylor Greene a pretty basic relevant question, which is, aren't you putting American troops at risk if you use Signal to coordinate military strikes? It's a great question because these are the people who say, our highest values, our highest values, among others, are supporting and defending the troops. Totally fair question. Totally valid question, given the fallout from the Signal fiasco. But Marjorie Taylor Greene immediately takes the least professional, most unhinged path possible and says, what country are you from?

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Yep. Anybody else should the defense. What country are you? Wait, what country are you from? The uk okay? We don't give a crap about Europeans opinion and you're reporting. Why don't you go back to your country? We have a major migrant problem and you. No, no, no, no. You should care about your own borders. No, no, no, no, no. Let me tell you something. Do you care about people from your country? What about all the women that are raped by migrants?

[David Pakman]

It's like this is her job. So the fact that she's in the United States asking questions about American politics, it's not because she doesn't care about her country. This is her job. It's her job to ask questions about American politics.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

No. Do you care? Okay. You're doing I. You want to know I don't care. I don't care about your fake news. Do you have a relevant question? Yeah. This is an American journalist. Thank you.

[David Pakman]

I'm American, and I'd like to hear your answer to what she's asking. Oh, I love that. I am an American journalist. Please answer her question. It's a good question.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

I'm not answering her question because I don't care about her network. If you would like to ask, I.

[David Pakman]

Can answer concerns whatsoever about the complete disregard of operational security from the top level of this administration.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

You want to know about complete disregard about operational security? You should talk about the Biden administration and how they ripped our borders open to terrorist, cartel, child sex trafficking, human trafficking and drug trafficking.

[David Pakman]

Notice that the American guy asked the question. She's still not answering.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Across our borders for four years. The Trump administration is doing a great job, and I stand by their statements. I stand by their statements. My comment to you is I'm thankful to President Trump that he is leading us out of wars, that he's ending the war in Ukraine, where American lives could have been killed if Joe Biden was still president today, whether he liked it or not. We're talking about NPR and pbs.

[David Pakman]

What an embarrassing, embarrassing display today.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

We're talking about fake news that was funded with federal funding from American taxpayers.

[David Pakman]

You know, you can put lipstick on a pig, as the great Sarah Palin once said, but you can't give it class just by doing so. The first reason she wasn't answering the question was the person asking it was British. When the American guy asked the same question, she still didn't answer it, because the truth is, of course, she can't really answer it because the Trump team's reckless use of signal did put people in danger. They know it. They know that it did. And so that's the MAGA routine. Change the subject, attack the media, play the foreign meddler card. Why are you here with that accent, meddling in our affairs and then now pretend the entire thing is somehow about immigration? This is the Republican Party of 2025. A House member with security clearance screaming, go back to your country. At a reporter asking about national security, which, by the way, as an ally, put aside for a moment that it's Martha Kellner's job to be here asking questions like she's assigned to the United States. Put that aside for a second. When we do this reckless stuff, it also has the potential to endanger coalition troops, which we are involved with around the world. The UK being one of those primary countries. So just a disgusting display, lacking all class, lacking character and lacking seriousness. But her constituents down there in that Georgia district, they seem committed to keeping Marjorie Taylor Greene in power. Really sick stuff. All right. On today's bonus show, we are going to talk about the latest tariffs, 25% on car imports to the U.S. what will this do? And what did this instantly do to ford stock, to GM stock, etc. Secondly, Musk will be investigating the signal blunder. What does that actually mean in practice? And thirdly, Chuck Schumer is keeping his job for now, but Democrats are increasingly wondering whether Schumer is sort of working on borrowed time here. And and all of those stories will be on today's bonus show. Sign up@join pacman.com My book is out. This is not the preorder campaign anymore. The book is out. It's available overnight shipping in many places. Signed copies still available. Anybody who orders a signed copy, I'm going to go up and sign copies Monday. Just signing, signing big, cartoonishly large Sharpie. I've asked for David pakman.com/booksmith we're getting a few emails from people saying, I ordered the book on Barnes and Noble. It wasn't signed. I ordered the book on Amazon. It wasn't signed. I ordered the audiobook. It wasn't signed. How do you sign an audiobook? I don't know. More of a question of physics. The only place to get the signed book. David pakman.com/booksmith it looks like I'm going to have to sign about 600 of them on Monday as of right now. Maybe it'll be more come Monday. Okay, so that's what's going on. And if you've gotten the book, please review the book. Only 70 reviews so far on Amazon. We need to get a thousand. Okay. So I'll see you on the bonus show. I'll see you tomorrow. I'll sign the books. We'll do the whole thing.