The David Pakman Show Episode: More MAGA Figures Turn on Trump, Caroline Leavitt Does It Again Release Date: April 8, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of The David Pakman Show, host David Pakman delves into the growing disillusionment among right-wing figures with former President Donald Trump's policies, particularly focusing on the contentious tariff schemes. The discussion encompasses economic analyses, critiques from within Trump’s former advisers, and insights from guest Katherine Stewart on the intersection of religion and politics within the anti-democratic movement.

Right-Wing Skepticism of Trump's Tariff Policies

Pakman opens the discussion by highlighting the skepticism emerging from within right-wing circles regarding Trump's tariff strategies. He references an interview with Larry Kudlow, Trump’s former economic adviser and current Fox Business host, who challenges the conventional negative view of trade deficits.

Notable Quote:

Larry Kudlow [01:07]: "Countries like the United States run trade deficits. We've run a trade deficit for a really long time... It's not bad. It gives consumers choices and it lowers prices."

Kudlow argues that trade deficits are a natural consequence of the U.S.’s economic strength and attractiveness for foreign investment, contrary to Trump's narrative that sees trade deficits as detrimental.

Economic Implications of Trump’s Policies

Pakman elaborates on Kudlow's perspective, explaining that the U.S. trade deficit is facilitated by foreign investments flowing into American assets, which in turn fund the imports. He underscores that a trade deficit is not inherently a sign of economic weakness but rather reflects the country's purchasing power and investment appeal.

However, the episode takes a turn as Pakman highlights Maria Bartiromo’s surprising admission on Fox News about the potential economic fallout from Trump's aggressive tariff proposals.

Notable Quote:

Maria Bartiromo [06:56]: "Donald's economic plans could induce a recession... If the tariffs stay in place, US real GDP is on track to decline about 1% in the second quarter."

This marks a significant moment as Bartiromo, a longstanding MAGA supporter, acknowledges the risk of a recession stemming from sustained tariffs, signaling a rare internal critique within Trump’s media allies.

Critique from MAGA Media Figures

Pakman discusses further skepticism voiced by other MAGA-aligned media personalities. He references Joe Kernan from CNBC, who interviews Peter Navarro, another former Trump economic adviser. Kernan expresses doubt about Navarro’s defense of the tariff methodology, questioning its validity and market impact.

Notable Quote:

Peter Navarro [09:35]: "The methodology that was used has been universally derided as being non-serious... What you're seeing in the stock market is head scratching and head shaking on whether anyone really knows what they're doing."

Navarro defends the tariff approach, citing support from the Council of Economic Advisers, but Kernan remains unconvinced, highlighting a growing rift among Trump’s economic supporters.

Broader Political Implications and Economic Forecast

Pakman synthesizes the economic discussions, emphasizing that even traditional Trump allies are beginning to recognize the flaws in his economic strategies. He points out the sharp decline in the stock market at the onset of Trump’s second term, attributing it directly to the uncertainty and instability caused by the tariff policies.

Key Points:

• Stock Market Decline: The S&P 500 experienced a nearly 6.5% drop in the first 50 trading days of Trump’s second term, marking one of the worst openings in modern presidential history.
• Global Repercussions: Other countries, including China, Canada, and EU nations, swiftly responded with counter-tariffs, exacerbating economic tensions and undermining American trade relationships.

Pakman argues that Trump’s approach not only destabilizes the U.S. economy but also inadvertently benefits geopolitical rivals like China, which capitalize on the strained trade environment to strengthen their own positions globally.

Interview with Katherine Stewart: Christian Nationalism and the Anti-Democratic Movement

In a profound segment, Pakman hosts Katherine Stewart, author of Money Lies in God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy. Stewart explores the intricate connections between wealth concentration, religious nationalism, and the broader anti-democratic agenda undermining American institutions.

Notable Insights:

• Wealth Concentration: Stewart explains how ultra-wealthy individuals, regardless of their religious affiliations, collaborate with Christian nationalist leaders to push deregulation, tax cuts, and protectionist policies that preserve their economic privileges.
• Disinformation and Culture Wars: She highlights the strategic use of culture war issues as distractions from the movement's core objective of dismantling pluralistic democratic principles. By fostering divisions on social and religious fronts, the movement maintains control over the narrative and consolidates power.

Notable Quote:

Katherine Stewart [32:06]: "The anti-democratic movement seeks to destroy democracy. They abhor the principles of pluralism and equality and justice that represent the best of the American promise."

Stewart emphasizes that the movement's agenda extends beyond mere cultural conflicts, aiming to establish an authoritarian governance model that prioritizes the interests of the elite over the common populace.

Trump’s Deportation Policies and Media Portrayal

Pakman scrutinizes the recent actions of Trump's press secretary, Caroline Levitt, on Fox News, where she lauds the Supreme Court’s decision supporting Trump’s deportation policies. Pakman condemns the dehumanization of immigrants and the misuse of legal frameworks to target compliant individuals without criminal backgrounds.

Notable Quote:

Caroline Levitt [49:11]: "This is a massive legal victory... President Trump and our administration have always been right from the beginning."

Pakman counters Levitt’s narrative by presenting evidence of innocent individuals being wrongfully labeled as “heinous, violent foreign terrorists,” thereby exposing the moral and ethical collapse within Trump’s immigration strategy.

Trump’s Public Persona and Leadership Competence

The episode critiques Trump’s competence across various domains, including his understanding of baseball and foreign policy. Pakman illustrates this with Levitt’s awkward remarks during a White House event with the Los Angeles Dodgers, highlighting Trump's superficial engagement and lack of substantive knowledge.

Notable Observations:

• Sports Mismanagement: Levitt’s awkward comments about pitchers and baseball reflect a broader issue of Trump’s inability to effectively communicate and manage public relations beyond his core political base.
• Inconsistent Policies: Trump's contradictory statements on tariffs and immigration reveal a disoriented leadership style that prioritizes political theater over coherent policy-making.

Conclusion: Democratic Party’s Strategic Path Forward

In concluding the episode, Pakman addresses the Democratic Party’s current challenges, noting its low approval ratings and the urgent need for strategic reforms. He cites Katherine Stewart’s recommendations for the party to adopt a broad-based, inclusive messaging approach that transcends political divisions and focuses on core democratic principles.

Notable Quote:

Katherine Stewart [46:38]: "We need broad-based messaging that transcends the political class... and helps them connect the dots to understanding that this is a movement that is just taking away their rights and destroying their economic futures."

Stewart advocates for voter engagement strategies that prioritize turnout and unity over highlighting internal hypocrisies, emphasizing the importance of collective action to counteract the anti-democratic movement.

Key Takeaways

• Intra-Right-Wing Critique: Prominent right-wing figures like Larry Kudlow and Maria Bartiromo are beginning to question and criticize Trump’s economic policies, particularly the tariff schemes.
• Economic Instability: Trump's tariff policies have led to significant stock market declines and global economic tensions, with even his allies recognizing the potential for recession.
• Anti-Democratic Movement: Katherine Stewart’s analysis reveals a coordinated effort by wealthy elites and Christian nationalists to undermine democratic institutions and promote authoritarian governance.
• Immigration Policies: Trump’s deportation strategies are being criticized for their unethical targeting of compliant immigrants, showcasing a moral and ethical decline within his administration.
• Democratic Strategy: The Democratic Party must adopt inclusive, broad-based messaging and focus on voter turnout to effectively counter the anti-democratic movement and restore democratic principles.

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the shifting dynamics within right-wing economic policies, the rise of anti-democratic movements, and the strategic imperatives for the Democratic Party to reclaim and reinforce democratic values in the face of growing economic and political challenges.