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5/21/25: Economic update, habeas corpus collapse, a new Golden Dome - The David Pakman Show | Wave AI Podcast Notes

5/21/25: Economic update, habeas corpus collapse, a new Golden Dome

Wed May 21 2025

-- On the Show: — Where the economy stands after four months of Trump: unemployment steady, GDP dips, inflation down, consumer confidence collapsing — Trump lashes out during a press conference, lies about healthcare and groceries, praises the...

Summary

The David Pakman Show
Episode: 5/21/25: Economic Update, Habeas Corpus Collapse, a New Golden Dome
Release Date: May 21, 2025

1. Economic Update Under Trump's Second Term

Host David Pakman begins the episode by emphasizing the importance of tracking a comprehensive set of economic indicators to evaluate a presidency objectively. He contrasts the economic performance during Donald Trump's second term with Joe Biden's administration, focusing on several key metrics:

Unemployment Rate:
- Biden's End: 4.1%
- Trump's Current: 4.2%
- Insight: Unemployment remains virtually unchanged, despite concerns that Trump's tariff policies might lead to job losses. Pakman notes, "Fed Chairman Jerome Powell and economists have said... higher unemployment [is possible], but we don't have it yet" ([00:07]).
Inflation:
- Biden's End (2024): 2.9%
- Trump's Current: 2.3%
- Insight: Inflation has decreased under Trump. Pakman states, "Inflation has declined under Trump. These are just the facts" ([00:07]).
Gross Domestic Product (GDP):
- Last Quarter Biden: 2.3% growth
- First Quarter Trump: -0.3%
- Insight: The GDP saw a decline in Trump's first quarter, the first drop in years, attributed partly to inventory stocking in anticipation of tariffs.
Interest Rates:
- 30-Year Fixed Mortgage Rate:
  - Biden's End: 7.04%
  - Trump's Current: 6.81%
- Insight: A modest decline in mortgage rates makes homes slightly more affordable, though home prices may rise inversely.
Stock Market:
- S&P 500: Down less than half a point since Trump took office.
- Insight: The market remains flat, defying some predictions of prolonged declines due to tariffs. Pakman remarks, "The stock market flat... it depends on your expectation" ([00:07]).
Consumer Sentiment:
- Biden's End: 71
- Trump's Current: 57
- Insight: A significant decline reflects growing economic concerns among consumers.
Gas Prices:
- Biden's End: $3.11 per gallon
- Trump's Current: $3.16 per gallon
- Insight: Gas prices remain essentially flat, with only a marginal increase, falling short of Trump's promises of substantial reductions.

Conclusion: While some economic indicators like inflation and mortgage rates show improvement under Trump, others like GDP growth and consumer sentiment raise concerns. Pakman summarizes, "Expectations are that people are very worried the economy is going in the wrong direction" ([00:07]).

2. Trump's Press Briefing and Policy Announcements

Pakman critiques Trump's performance during a recent closed-door press briefing with House Republicans, highlighting his evasive and deflective responses to substantive questions:

Health Insurance Guarantees:
When asked if Trump can guarantee that voters won't lose health insurance under a new bill, Trump responds by shifting focus to drug price cuts:

Donald Trump ([10:21]): "Not only that, remember, I'm cutting drug prices by 85%... we're now going to pay the lowest in the world." ([10:21])

Pakman's Analysis: "Trump gives only the most minor... No one will lose health care coverage. But then very quickly moves on to the issue of the pharmaceutical prices that he's going to cut" ([10:49]).
Food Assistance Cuts:
Upon questioning the rationale behind cutting food assistance, Trump attributes it to decreased grocery prices:

Donald Trump ([12:02]): "The cut is going to give everybody much more food because prices are coming way down... Gasoline is now buying. They're buying gasoline now for $1.99." ([12:02])

Pakman's Critique: "Trump regularly lying about gas prices... his promises seem completely not based in fact."
Obsession with the Golden Dome:
Trump announces the "Golden Dome missile defense shield," a policy Pakman views as unrealistic and fiscally irresponsible:

Donald Trump ([27:47]): "We're going to have it at the highest level... fully operational before the end of my term." ([27:47])

Pakman's Commentary: "This ideal defense system... makes no sense whatsoever at this point in time... an entirely fantastical promise."
Evasive Responses and Authoritarian Tendencies:
When pressed on policy details, Trump deflects or provides misleading information:

Donald Trump ([33:24]): "The USA, by the way, very important... Declaration of Independence." ([33:24])

Pakman's Observation: "Trump is reluctantly acknowledging superficial questions while avoiding substantive answers, showcasing a move towards authoritarian behavior."

3. Republican Stance on Habeas Corpus and Civil Liberties

The episode delves into a critical discussion on civil liberties, focusing on Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem's misunderstanding of habeas corpus, a fundamental constitutional right.

Pressing Questions on Habeas Corpus:
During a hearing, Senator Maggie Hassan questions Secretary Noem:

Senator Maggie Hassan ([40:44]): "What is habeas corpus?"
Kristi Noem ([40:44]): "Habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country." ([40:44])
Clarification and Correction:
Pakman explains the true meaning of habeas corpus:

Satatus Massie ([40:55]): "Habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people... separates free societies like America from police states like North Korea." ([40:55])

Noem's Flawed Interpretation:
Instead of recognizing habeas corpus as a protection against unlawful detention, Noem incorrectly states it as a presidential power to remove individuals from the country.
Implications:
Pakman warns that such misunderstandings signal a "Republican war on civil liberties," where fundamental protections could become negotiable and subject to presidential discretion.

Pakman: "This is a window into how authoritarianism grows. You fill positions of power with people who are ignorant and loyal... the most fundamental protections... start to become negotiable." ([58:14])

4. Internal Republican Conflicts Over Fiscal Responsibility

Pakman highlights internal tensions within the Republican Party, particularly regarding fiscal policies:

Thomas Massie's Critique of Trump's Tax Plan:
Massie, a libertarian Republican, opposes Trump's tax plan citing its potential to balloon the deficit:

Pete Hegseth ([46:44]): "We're going to add $20 trillion to debt over the next 10 years..." ([46:56])

Pakman's Analysis: "Thomas Massie is not a moderate... it's about loyalty, not fiscal responsibility. If you deviate, you become persona non grata." ([47:14])
Trump's Response to Dissent:
Pakman illustrates how Trump prioritizes loyalty over policy correctness, suggesting that any criticism of his tax plan leads to calls for removal from office.

Pakman: "If you deviate even one iota from the Trump line... 'you're a traitor. You're done.'" ([47:14])

5. The Decline of Elon Musk's Political Involvement

The episode briefly touches on Elon Musk's reduced engagement in political spending:

Musk's Withdrawal from Political Contributions:
After significant investments in Trump's campaigns, Musk announces a decrease in political spending, citing blowback from his actions:

Caroline Levitt ([51:20]): "I'm going to do a lot less [political spending] in the future." ([51:36])
Impact on Musk's Reputation:
Pakman discusses how Musk's political involvement has alienated half the country, damaging his brands like Tesla, and notes Trump's apparent relief at Musk stepping back.

Pakman: "He's done enough damage... He has done enough buying his way into an administration wreaking complete and total havoc." ([52:15])

6. Investigations and Political Maneuvering

Pakman concludes with updates on ongoing political investigations and their potential motivations:

Justice Department Investigation into Andrew Cuomo:
Speculation arises that the investigation may be strategically timed to undermine Cuomo's bid for New York mayor.
Bonus Show Preview:
Pakman teases a bonus show discussing conflicting reports about Qatar's alleged plane gift to Trump and other unfolding political scenarios.

Key Takeaways

Economic Indicators: Mixed results under Trump's second term with some improvements and notable declines.
Authoritarian Behaviors: Concerns over Trump's evasive responses and Republican officials' misunderstandings of fundamental legal principles.
Party Loyalty vs. Policy: Internal conflicts highlight a prioritization of loyalty over substantive policy debates within the Republican Party.
Reduced Political Spending by Influencers: Figures like Elon Musk are distancing themselves from political contributions due to negative repercussions.
Ongoing Political Investigations: Strategic timing of investigations suggests potential political motivations beyond sheer legality.

Notable Quotes:

David Pakman ([00:07]): "Let's put aside our opinions about the president... let's just track how economic indicators have changed under the current president versus the previous one."
Donald Trump ([10:21]): "Not only that, remember, I'm cutting drug prices by 85%... we're now going to pay the lowest in the world."
Senator Maggie Hassan ([40:55]): "Habeas corpus is the legal principle that requires that the government provide a public reason for detaining and imprisoning people."
Thomas Massie ([46:44]): "We're going to add $20 trillion to debt over the next 10 years..."
Donald Trump ([27:47]): "We're going to have it at the highest level... fully operational before the end of my term."

This comprehensive summary captures the essential discussions and insights from "The David Pakman Show" episode aired on May 21, 2025, providing listeners with an in-depth understanding of the topics covered.

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Transcript

David Pakman (0:07)

Welcome to the show, everybody. One of the, I believe, most useful things that we can do, at least to create a baseline for evaluating a presidency, is to really keep track of a bundle of economic indicators. And we've talked about before how I, of course, have personal views and opinions and biases, but that at least as a starting point, I may have an opinion about gay marriage, for example, but at least as a starting point, it's a good thing to look at 5, 6, 7 economic metrics and say, let's put aside our opinions about the president, let's put aside for a moment our views on social issues, and let's just track how economic indicators have changed under the current president versus the previous one. In this particular case, what we're saying is how does the Trump administration second term now four months in compare economically with what we saw during Joe Biden's presidency? One of the, I think, relevant things to understand about the tariff program is that the announcement of tariffs and then the suspension of tariffs, all still, for the most part, not yet started. Even though there are some tariffs on China, they really affect futures markets. The stock market is a futures market the day you announce tariffs, especially if they are to take effect at some future point, nothing changes that day about the profitability of a publicly traded company, but its share price may go down because it reflects beliefs about the future profitability of that company. So all of this being said, we can simultaneously understand how blanket tariffs on every country would be bad for American companies, small businesses and individuals, but recognize that not all of that takes effect right away and maybe isn't reflected in economic indicators. So that being said, where are we right now with regard to the primary metrics that we track to evaluate a presidency? Well, let's start with unemployment. The unemployment rate at the end of Joe Biden's term was 4.1. Right now, four months into Trump's presidency, it's at 4.2. It's essentially unchanged now. Fed Chairman Jerome Powell and economists have said if the full scope of Trump's threatened tariffs become real and then the effect of that trickles down through the economy, you're going to get higher unemployment. We don't have it yet. Right now, unemployment is basically unchanged from where it left off with Joe Biden. Okay, let's continue to inflation. A year over year inflation at the end of Joe Biden's presidency, let's say for 2024, which includes the last full month that Biden was president, year over year, inflation was 2.9% after three months. After four months really, under Donald Trump, that is now down to 2.3%. We're going to get, we have the latest April number, rather, 2.3%. So inflation has declined under Trump. This, these are just the facts. And I know that there are people who will be furious at me, furious about numbers. This is where we are. Is it the case that Jerome Powell, the Fed chairman and every serious economist have said, if Trump's tariffs go at the full rate and they continue, it's going to drive inflation? Yes, that's absolutely true. Are we seeing it yet? The answer is no. Now, of course, anecdotally, or if we want to break these numbers down into constituent parts, we can certainly find some industries that are starting to see some additional price inflation. But so far, inflation is down now from where it was when Donald Trump took over GDP. GDP is a sign of concern. What we saw, the Q4 number, which was the final quarter that Joe Biden was, was president, annualized to 2.3% growth for the economy in the first quarter of Donald Trump's second term, January, February, March of this year, we saw a decline in GDP of 0.3%. This was hugely significant. This was the first time that GDP declined in the United States in years. So although unemployment is basically flat, inflation is slightly down. We did see a GDP decline in the first quarter of this year. That's not a good indicator. And of course the part, one of the reasons for that is that anticipating tariffs, many companies stocked up on inventory, meaning they imported more, which contributes to the GDP decline in these numbers. Okay, so that's where we are interest rates, which Donald Trump promised to bring down. Typically when we say where are interest rates? We look at the 30 year fixed rate mortgage. At the end of Joe Biden's presidency, the 30 year fixed rate mortgage was at 7.04. Right now it's at 6.81. So we've seen a modest, maybe about, you know, a quarter point decline point to three, in fact, decline in mortgage rates under Donald Trump. Significant, not really a decline. Yes, it's a decline. And of course, declining mortgage rates make homes slightly more affordable, although at the same time, mortgage rates and home prices tend to move in opposite directions. So you would, you would expect to see a slight increase in home prices to account for the decrease in the 30 year mortgage rate. The stock market, this has been maybe one of the most critical ones because after the announcement of the Liberation Day tariffs, quote, unquote, Liberation Day tariffs, we saw significant market shakiness and massive declines. As we spoke about Yesterday with JL Collins, some said the United States is not going to recover these stock market losses for years. And it could be a decade. It could be years. It's recovered. We. The stock market is now essentially flat. The s and P500 down less than half a point since Donald Trump took over. As, as we spoke about yesterday with JL Collins, there are people saying, this is what we call a dead cat bounce, and the stock market will decline 10, 20, 30% from where it is now as the tariffs take their full effect. Others said, no, that's it. It's over. The calamity is over. I have no idea. I don't pretend to know. I don't think I'm smart enough to predict that. But as of this moment, the stock market flat. Now, some would say, given how bad things were looking, flat's pretty good. Others would say flat means we're on track for zero stock market growth. In other words, if you take a.5% decline in four months, that's like a 1.5% decline over the course of a year. It's not a disaster, but it's a little bit of loss. So it depends on your expectation. But I think there is upside, which is it looked like we were going to be down 15% this year. And on the other hand, if we expect and desire an average of 7% stock market growth a year over the long term, we're falling very short of that. So interpret that yourself. On consumer sentiment, that is an area that is significantly declined at the end of Biden's presidency. Consumer sentiment was 71. This is indexed to 100. It was. So the numbers are sort of arbitrary, but the idea is think about 100 as being sort of neutral. We went from 71 in terms of consumer expectations about the economy down to 57, one of the lowest numbers we've seen for consumer sentiment, which just reflects expectations about the economy and a very long time. And then finally on gas prices. Gas prices, basically flat. 311 a gallon when Biden left office, a 316 a gallon. Right now it's a 5. It's like a 1% increase in gas prices. If we compare it to what Joe, what Donald Trump promised, which is massive 50% declines in the cost of energy and gas prices, well, he's certainly falling short there. If we compare it to a massive economic disaster, certainly not one. So what is the empirical picture about the economy? Expectations are that people are very worried the economy is going in the wrong direction. GDP decline, certainly a concern most other metrics Basically flat. That's where we are. The, the next step is to analyze, and we're going to delve more deeply into that tomorrow. Well, we saw yesterday what happens when Donald Trump is asked real, substantive policy questions, and it's not good. He doesn't like it. Donald Trump was asked about this new, big, beautiful bill. Can you guarantee that your voters will not lose health insurance under this bill? Intuitively, we know that they will if the bill comes to full fruition because of the cuts that are in the bill. If you think back to 2017, we all remember that when Trump actually had a plan, it was the plan Republicans decided not to go forward with in 2017, because somewhere between 24 and 32 million Americans would have lost health care coverage over the following decade. So they don't have exactly a good track record with this stuff. But needless to say, here is Trump answering the question, can you guarantee no one will lose health insurance? And Trump's like, yeah, no, they won't. And then he goes on to talk about completely unrelated things.

David Pakman (17:19)

Whoops. All right, so maybe Trump went to the officer thinking they're going to do another mug shot. I must be getting arrested. Again, serious questions he doesn't like. Substantive questions he cannot answer. And after the break, after we deal with Caroline Levitt lying to little kids, I know we will get to a proposal from this administration for a golden, golden dome defense system which I predict will never be built. Very quick break. And then right back. I've been using Graza olive oil for years and I am super excited that Graza is now a sponsor of the show. Graza olive oil is always fresh. It's never blended. They use one olive from one region in Spain. No mysterious blends. It's a traceable and fresher product. And the packaging is super practical. None of these messy, drippy spouts. Graza oils come in easy to use, squeeze and spray bottles. They've got three types, super simple frizzle for high smoke point cooking, sizzle for everyday cooking, and drizzle, which is more for garnishes and dressings. I've been using Graza Oil in my house for years. I love everything about it and my audience gets 10% off the trio, which comes with all three of the varieties that they offer in a squeezy bottle. So you are all set for every style of cooking. Go to Graza Co and use the code Pacman. That's Graza Co. Use code pacman for 10% off the trio. The link is in the podcast notes. All right, so we all know Alexa listens to us, recommends products based on our conversations. Metta retargets us based on our browsing and engagement history. Have you wondered what ChatGPT and Claude are up to with your conversations? We feed so much of our information to these AI chat bots. Thoughts, dreams, sensitive questions, business ideas. They take the information, tie it to your identity and they can sell that to third parties and governments. ChatGPT has the former director of the NSA on their board right now. That doesn't feel awesome. It took us a long time to truly understand what social media companies were doing with our data. We don't have to make the same mistake with AI. And that's why I've started using Venice AI, a generative AI platform that is private and permissionless. They don't spy on you, Venice. I won't censor the AI. They have a safe mode which you can turn off for both text and image generation. Messages are encrypted. Your conversation history is only stored on your browser. I love the Pro plan because I get upgraded features like uploading files, unlimited text prompts. Check it out. If you want to use AI without censorship or fear of handing over your most intimate thoughts to a corporation or the government, go to Venice AI/PACMAN and use code PACMAN to get 20% off their pro plan. That's Venice AI/PACMAN. Get 20% off with code Pakman. The info is in the podcast notes. The David Pakman show is of course an audience supported independent media program. I invite you to join the ranks of those supporting us. Really appreciate everybody who does. You can read about membership and sign up@join pacman.com of course you can also use the discount code coupon code. It will end soon. All one word, all lowercase to save about 50% off of the cost of your membership. You know, Caroline Levitt, of course, is one of the most disgusting and regrettable actors in this second iteration of the Trump administration. But the depravity really knows no Bottom I was watching sort of with minimal amusement, I guess. It was like bring your kid to the press briefing room yesterday at the White House and Caroline Levitt took questions from the kids. And even when taking questions from the kids, and I don't even know why I say that, because to be frank, the questions from the kids were better questions, more substantive questions, certainly more salient and relevant questions than what we heard from the new MAGA briefing room that Caroline Levitt held a few weeks ago. These kids asked relatively good questions, and even to them, Caroline Levitt lies and distracts and distorts. I'll give you some examples. How many people has Trump fired? Is the question.

David Pakman (36:00)

Thank you so much for your leadership. You know, groveling aside for a moment, I mean, just pathetic groveling from Pete Hecseth. The idea that what Trump does is looks at data in detail, speaks to experts and makes nuanced, thoughtful complex decisions. We he's never once done that the entire time that he's been president. And we're now supposed to believe, thanks to the most unqualified Secretary of Defense in history, that that's how Trump is deciding what to do? Humiliating and pathetic and all over a golden dome system that simply will not be built while Trump is president. That was his promise. Let's hold them to it. Does anybody in my audience believe we're going to see that in the next three and two thirds years? Did you know that countless commercial databases and people search sites are storing your personal information? Anyone from an employer to a former partner can use these platforms to get details about your online presence, your home address, phone number, email, license plate, family members, financial information, even political views. Europe has laws that offer some protection, but in the US the data is widely accessible. Even the FBI will buy this information from companies to spy on people without a search warrant. Our sponsor Incogni provides a solution. It takes just seconds to sign up and Incogni will send removal requests to all of the major data brokers, legally compelling them to get rid of your data. Incogni keeps you informed throughout the process. You'll get real time updates who has complied, which ones are still pending. They'll handle follow ups, they'll handle appeals on your behalf, and this will save you hundreds of hours. Very few people have the time or resources to do this on their own. This service can also reduce the number of spam calls and emails you get, since many solicitors and scammers get your information from these very same sources. Go to incogni.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN for 60% off. That's incogni.com/pacMan for a huge 60% discount. The link is in the podcast notes Guys in my audience. I know you're tired of the chafing with traditional underwear. Our sponsor Sheath makes the most comfortable boxer briefs I've ever worn. If you're sick of the boxers that are too loose or the briefs that are too tight, Sheath is for you. Sheath underwear is designed with two special pouches in the front. Keeps everything separate in its own compartment with extra confidence that you will feel throughout the day. Keeping things separate and comfortable. No more sticking and chafing. I was skeptical about the dual pouch, I admit it, but it is game changing. Everything stays where it is supposed to be extra useful when working out at the gym. And even if you don't want to use the pouches, you don't have to. It is still the most comfortable pair of underwear I have ever owned. It will blow your mind how soft and stretchy these are made with moisture wicking technology to keep you dry. If you were ready to take underwear comfort to a new place, a place you didn't even know it could go, head over to sheath underwear.com/pacman and get 20% off with the code pacman. That's S H E A T H underwear.com/pacman use code PACMAN for 20% off. The link is in the podcast notes. It is not every day that you get to watch the Secretary of Homeland Security butcher one of the most basic legal principles in the American Constitution on live tv. Tv. But here we are. And it certainly is a more common occurrence in the current administration than in past one. We had a recent hearing involving Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem and Senator Maggie Hassan from New Hampshire asks the former South Dakota Governor Noem, now Secretary of Homeland Security, a very simple question. What is habeas corpus? In other times, we would consider this a rhetorical question or maybe a trick or leading question meant to no, we just don't think they know what it is. And Kristi Noem's answer in full confidence confirms that she doesn't know what it is. She says that habeas corpus means Trump can do whatever he wants. Oh boy, we're in trouble. Take a listen to this.

David Pakman (42:04)

That's right. The president doesn't have that right unilaterally, that's for sure. Can we be surprised that. That they're violating court orders when they don't even know or are willing to admit what habeas corpus even is? This is not a presidential power. And it's not about deportation. It's not even about immigration. It is the right of a person to challenge unlawful detention in court. It's the foundation of due process. You have to get an explanation for why are you being detained or you must be let go. It's been the law, really, since before the United States even existed. So when Kristi Noem says Trump has the right to use habeas corpus to remove people, she's not confused. She's completely flipping it upside down. It's like saying the First Amendment gives the government the right to ban books. It's like, no, the First Amendment says the government shouldn't and can't be doing that. And yet these are the people that brag about defending the Constitution. They don't even understand it, never mind defend it. So it's not a surprise that the Trump administration and its allies have been floating the idea of suspending habeas corpus, because in their world, the government shouldn't have to explain arrests or detentions, just throw people in jail or deport them. No hearing, no lawyer, no court. And now we see why. They don't know what the law says in the first place, or they're not willing to acknowledge it. So, you know, I said at the beginning, in other environments, what is habeas corpus would be a rhetorical question, a trick question, a leading question. This isn't really a gotcha moment. It's a window into how authoritarianism grows. You fill positions of power with people who are ignorant and loyal in various combinations, and suddenly, even the most fundamental protections that we take for granted, like not being disappeared by the state, start to become negotiable. It's at the pleasure of the president that we have habeas corpus or don't have it. And so what we have here is a Republican war on civil liberties. That's not a secret. It's out in the open. They don't hide it. They say, we want to detain people without trials, we want to remove people without due process, without hearings. Brian Kilmeade on Fox and Friends a couple of weeks ago said, guys, it's just not practical. We can't give hearings to all of these People, we just got to get them out of here. Judicial oversight, a court that says, here's what you must do to comply with the law and we're going to ignore it. And so far they get away with it. And when you say, wow, there must be some legal theory behind this, you're doing so many things differently. Give me the legal theory. They give you gibberish like habeas corpus means Trump does whatever he wants whenever he wants it. And the truth is they don't need to know how it works because they don't care. All they need to know is who are we targeting? And let's reverse engineer a harebrained understanding of the law to justify it. If we keep treating it as merely incompetence, and I said it's incompetence and loyalty in proportion. I don't know if we treat it as incompetence alone. We don't necessarily acknowledge the march towards the authoritarianism. And then we'll end up waking up in a country where habeas corpus really does mean whatever the hell Trump wants. Terrifying stuff from Kristi Noemi and a nice job done there by Senator Maggie Hassan in explaining the absurdity of this. All right, let's go to one now that is not from a Democrat. Ok, Maggie Hassan, Democrat, she supports habeas Corpus Christi. Noem didn't. But that's a Democrat against a Republican. Let's step back for a second. Let's hear from Thomas Massie. Not the squad, not a disaffected Republican like Liz Cheney. This is a full blown libertarian, anti spending, anti tax Republican Thomas Massie, Congressman, going nuclear on Trump's new tax plan. Why? Because it blows up the deficit. This is something self described deficit hawks are against. Now, I don't agree with the principles that Thomas Massie believes in, but like Rand Paul over in the Senate, there are some Republicans whose principles are actually consistently held and applied to what's going on. I don't really agree with it with Thomas Massie. I think his libertarian anti spending thing is completely whacked and doesn't make any sense economically. But he is identifying the Trump tax plan will dramatically increase the deficit. Therefore it's not something that he would be in favor of. Let's take a listen to what he had to say. The audio is not great, but I think we'll do okay.

David Pakman (47:14)

All right, so there is Thomas Massie. This is why Trump said yesterday, thomas Massie needs to be voted out of office. This is what it's really about, fiscal responsibility. Massie says he cares about fiscal responsibility. So does Trump. But the bill doesn't seem to care about fiscal responsibility as defined by them. Trump says he cares about the deficit, and Massie says he cares about the deficit. Except Trump is pushing a bill that will dramatically increase the deficit. And so what this is really about is loyalty, not fiscal responsibility. If you deviate even one iota from the Trump line, you dare to point out this is a budgetary dumpster fire. I'm so sorry, but it's a budgetary dumpster fire. You're a traitor. You're done. You deserve to be voted out. And this is what happens in authoritarian movements. Dissent is punished, even respectful, marginal dissent. The facts don't matter. Loyalty is the only thing that does. Thomas Massie is not a moderate. He's not some center right moderate. He has spent years railing against government spending, even government spending that is stimulative because it does valuable things. Trump is now proposing massive tax cuts for the rich and no real plan to pay for it. So Massie goes, oh, that increases the deficit. I don't like that. And so Trump says, we've got to vote this guy out. So the next time that you hear Trump talk about how he's going to balance the budget or pay off the debt or whatever, his own party's deficit hawks, who I disagree with philosophically are saying Trump's plan is a complete and total fantasy. And Trump's response is, shut up and fall in line. That's what they want you to do. And if you don't do it, you become Persona non grata. Good for Massey, I guess. Although it's his own political career that he's imperiling here. All right, awesome new sponsor to talk about Wild Alaskan company. They do sustainable seafood memberships. I got one of these boxes, and it is just phenomenal. The whole point with wild Alaskan seafood is that it's 100% wild caught, it's never farmed. It's from sustainably managed fisheries in Alaska, frozen at the peak of freshness and then delivered to you. They've got three curated boxes, the wild salmon box, the wild white fish box and the wild combo box. I got a box that had everything beautifully vacuum sealed. The fish comes in pre portioned fillets. We had crab, we had scallops. I know I should be saying scallops. I just, it's just not for me. I call them scallops. Ok? Delicious and sustainable. They have a sustainable, supply driven approach. They get products during the harvest season in a way that doesn't deplete the resources of Alaska's wild fisheries. I encourage you to go to wild alaskan.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN for $35 off your first box. That's wild alaskan.com/PACMAN use code PACMAN for $35 off. The link is in the podcast notes. We are rapidly approaching the end, it seems, of Elon Musk's political involvement in the United States. He did a couple of really interesting interviews here yesterday. And one of the things that Elon Musk now says is, you know, I think I've spent enough money on political campaigns. I don't know that I'm going to be doing quite as much spending. And the why is what's most interesting. As you know, elon dumped about 250 million into Trump's presidential campaign, about 25 million into the Wisconsin Supreme Court race that he lost. He has alienated nearly half the country who now see his brands, particularly Tesla, as toxic. They don't want anything to do with them. And here is Elon Musk explaining why he thinks his political contributions are going to be winding down.