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The David Pakman Show
5/5/25: Trump “doesn’t know” about defending Constitution, Tesla sales collapse
01:02:17
-- On the Show: -- Tesla sales have completely collapsed in Sweden as Elon Musk continues to hurt his own businesses -- Donald Trump said he "doesn't know" whether he has to uphold the Constitution during an interview with NBC News' Kristen Welker...
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- [00:08]
David Pakman
Well, welcome to the show, everybody. Let's start with Tesla. Tesla is having more than just a bad month. It is witnessing a full blown collapse in the country of Sweden. And this goes to the broader problems that this company is having. This goes to the ill advised nature of how Elon Musk got himself involved in reactionary politics alongside Donald Trump. And maybe, maybe the saddest thing of it all is that it's ending the way it always ends, which is with Donald Trump making fun of Elon Musk even though he says he's great, even though he says he accomplished everything. Ultimately, Elon leaving Doge, going back to try to save his failing companies, but not even really getting the praise and respect of Donald Trump. We'll talk about that in a moment. So in April 2025, the month that just ended, Tesla sold only 203 vehicles in the entire country. That is for the ent month. That's not at one location, that's not per week or per day. That's for the entire month in the entire country. And it's really important to contextualize this in that we are not seeing like a General Electric vehicle slump or people losing interest in electric vehicles specifically. The specifics of this are Tesla, Tesla is nosediving. And of course the reason is Elon Musk. While Tesla is floundering, the broader EV market in Sweden and across Europe is continuing to grow. Consumers want to go electric, but they're increasingly going with anything but Tesla. Now, other automakers are seeing stable or rising EV numbers in 2025, especially in European countries which continue to roll out charging infrastructure and incentives for EV adoption. But Tesla is now in this situation where they've got a toxic guy at the top who by the way, they're starting to push out and look for a replacement for. They are stuck with inventory that they can't move, including the old Model Y. Despite offering fast delivery and introducing models like the, the new Model Y demand just isn't there. This is not an availability issue. This is not really a specs issue. This is a brand issue. And in Sweden, a country with strong labor traditions and progressive political leanings, Elon has turned Tesla into a symbol of exactly what buy are trying to avoid. His disdain for unions doesn't play well. The far right political posturing doesn't play well. His Twitter slash X meltdown tours have really transformed what used to be the world's most exciting car company, car and technology company at a certain point into a political statement that most Swedes and people in Norway, where Tesla sales are down 50% and all over Europe, it's a political statement to drive a Tesla there that a lot of people don't want to make. So here's the part that really should be particularly concerning to Tesla executives. People want electric vehicles maybe more than ever. This, this is like in a way getting to be the golden age of the electric vehicle. And what we are seeing is Tesla sales plunging into the low hundreds per month and it's just not sustainable. They've slashed interest rates, they've teased new models, they're talking about a super low cost EV that's going to be out soon. But you know, the new models with real weir rear wheel drive are going to be a tough sell in a country with Sweden's weather. And the cheap price point I don't think is particularly appealing given the political concerns. So the brand toxicity has become a business problem. And much like a lot of Donald Trump's problems, Elon Musk's business problems are completely self inflicted. He still has the fanboys at home. Most of them still don't seem to be buying Teslas in the us but now we are looking at Tesla's second quarter. Maybe it'll be a little better thanks to some of this availability. But the big picture is that this is what happens when you start a car company and run it like a social media brand. When you stop selling innovation and start selling ideology, all of a sudden a lot of people don't like it. Now I know that there are some in my audience saying bankruptcy, this is inevitably headed towards bankruptcy. It's very unlikely and I'll explain why. What is becoming increasingly plausible is the need for a restructuring or an intervention to stop the bleeding, especially in international markets. But the idea of a company with as much cash as Tesla has straight up going bankrupt is pretty far fetched. Usually the way that it goes is you're overextended, you're over leveraged, you're not growing globally anymore. But they do have technology. It's an energy company as well. They have a cushion that a lot of automakers don't have. So even if the sales continue to crater, which they very well may, an actual Tesla bankruptcy is not particularly likely because they could raise money through a stock offering. They could sell off part of its energy division, get emergency line of credit, lines of credit, maybe depending on Elon Musk's personal financial situation, because there's a lot there related to the X buyout and how he had to move around a bunch of his money. But the idea here is you would almost certainly, even if things became as dire as we can imagine, you would almost certainly end up in some kind of structured buyout, disassembly situation. And that's the direction that we should probably be thinking. So very, very bad news for Elon Musk, bad news for Tesla. Trump is now making fun of him and saying, oh, all these tech guys used to come and suck up to me. We'll talk about that later. What did he get out of it at the end of the day? Did he get the government deals, self dealing?
- [06:07]
Unknown
I don't know.
- [06:08]
David Pakman
Certainly some of his companies did get deals. Did he get the prestige? Well, he was hanging out at Mar a Lago temporarily. Was it all worth it? Is the question unclear right now? The floodgates are now open. As the president of the United States currently holding office was asked, are you required to uphold the Constitution? His answer was, I don't know. We cannot see this as an offhanded gaffe. This is the sitting president of the United States saying he's not sure whether he has to follow the foundational document that gives him the power that he wields. This is all from a disastrous new interview with NBC News Kristen Welker. Trump was asked, does due process apply to everybody? Does it apply to citizens and non citizens? And pressed in that moment as to whether he has a duty to uphold the Constitution, Trump again says, I don't know. Take a look at this.
- [07:11]
Kristen Welker
Your secretary of state says everyone who's here, citizens and non citizens, deserve due process. Do you agree? Mr.
- [07:18]
Donald Trump
I don't know. I'm not, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know.
- [07:21]
Kristen Welker
Well, the Fifth Amendment, I don't know.
- [07:23]
Donald Trump
It seems, it seems, it might say that, but if you're talking about that, then we'd have to have a million or 2 million or 3 million trials. We have thousands of people that are some murderers and some drug dealers and some of the worst on earth, some of the worst, most dangerous people on earth. And I was elected to get them the hell out of here, and the courts are holding me from doing it.
- [07:45]
Kristen Welker
But even given those numbers that you're talking about, don't you need to uphold the Constitution of the United States as president?
- [07:52]
Donald Trump
I don't know. I have to respond by saying, again, I have brilliant lawyers that work for me, and they are going to obviously follow what the Supreme Court said. What you said is not what I heard the Supreme Court said. They have a different interpretation.
- [08:08]
Kristen Welker
Is anyone in your administration right now in contact with El Salvador about returning Abrego Garcia.
- [08:17]
Donald Trump
I don't know. You'd have to ask the attorney general that question.
- [08:21]
David Pakman
This is a constitutional emergency in plain sight, because Donald Trump isn't just brushing off legal nuance. This is a total and overt disregard for the rule of law. This is not a technicality, okay? It is the core of American democracy. You know, a technicality might be. I don't know, I'm trying to think of something sort of benign and obscure. Technicality might be, you know, the Fish and Game. People look at the fish you caught and they go, oh, you've got seven fish here that are too small. You're supposed to leave the fish in the water until they get to a certain size in order to make it a renewable and sustainable stock of fish. These are too small. You've got seven fish that are too small. I could write you for seven misdemeanors, one for each of the seven fish, but I'm going to write you for one, because this is really all part of the same crime.
- [09:17]
Unknown
Right?
- [09:18]
David Pakman
That's an example of sort of a technicality. There's discretion when you swear an oath to the presidency, supposedly on a Bible, even though Trump kept his hand off of the Bible during the swearing in. The big thing is that you will uphold the Constitution, period. It's the Fifth Amendment, it's the 14th Amendment. It's what separates this country from dictatorship. And Trump is openly saying, I'm not so sure about that. Now, we've looked at the legal reality of this. Due process applies to persons, not just citizens. It's been the standard for decade. It's been upheld by both liberal and conservative courts. And the Constitution protects anyone under U.S. jurisdiction from being detained, deported, punished, or denied liberty without a legal process. But Trump's view is much simpler on this, and it's far more dangerous if there are too many people, if it just becomes inconvenient. I mean, listen, some of these cases could take years. Then you skip the Constitution, not law and order. That's authoritarianism, plain and simple. Now, let's pause for a moment. For decades, the right wing claim the core conservative identity was that they are the defenders of the Constitution, while the left tramples on it like it's a piece of gum. Actually, you would avoid stepping on a piece of gum. It tramples on it like it's trash. That was the whole pitch. Everything else was secondary. Low taxes, strong borders, cultural issues, all just extensions of the big promise, which is we will uphold the Constitution and the left will not. But then Trump goes on national television as president that and says he might not be obligated to do it. Where is the right wing on this? Imagine if Joe Biden or any Democratic president had said I don't know when asked if they must uphold the Constitution. It would be a Fox News live emergency for 72 hours straight. There would be calls for impeachment before the segment even ended. Every right wing radio host would declare the republic dead and the removal of the president is immediately necessary. But when Trump says it, we're supposed to move on. You don't need to be a legal scholar to understand how dangerous this is. It's in the job description of the president. You uphold the Constitution. It's not a suggestion, it's not a personal preference. It's not something you might believe in or you don't believe in. It is a binding legal document that empowers the presidency. And when the sitting president says he's not sure if he has to follow it, it is not a slip up. This is a red flag of all red flags. We've been talking about it for so long. Because what Trump wants to do is not lead within the bounds of the Constitution. He wants to dismantle the idea that those bounds apply to him at all. And meanwhile, you turn on Fox News and they're covering an imaginary litter box in a school that doesn't exist. The sitting president questioned whether the Constitution applies to him and those who spent years calling themselves constitutional conservatives silent. It tells you everything you need to know about the supposed values that they uphold. And for Trump, it's not that it's a complex question. It's that it's an inconvenient question. And that's why he says, I don't know. Let's take a very quick break. Make sure you're getting my newsletter on substack@david pakman.substack.com if you're running a business.
- [12:59]
Unknown
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- [14:36]
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- [14:38]
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- [14:58]
David Pakman
Ok?
- [14:59]
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- [15:31]
David Pakman
The David Pakman show, of course, is an audience supported program. We primarily depend on you to do what we do and the primary means of that is member@join pacman.com it's quick, it's cheap, it's easy and it comes with great perks, including a daily extra show called the Bonus show as well as commercial free audio and video streams of the show. Check it out@join pacman.com and of course you can use the coupon code. It will end soon. It will end soon. An optimistic sort of rallying cry to save about 50% off the cost of your membership. All right. We looked earlier in the show at Trump being asked by NBC News, as Kristen Welker as president, must you uphold the constitution? To which Trump said, I don't know. But this was actually a more broadly disastrous interview. And I want to look at a few other moments from this interview. There was another point at which, once again, this idea of, you know, if the tariffs make it so that there are fewer dolls available for kids, it's not really the end of the world. And what is unbelievable about this declaration from Trump is that once again, it's a complete full frontal abandonment of one of the main principles that the Republican Party and the right wing have advocated for and said they believe in for the last 30, 40, 50 years. Small government. Right. Except the president now dictates policy based on his opinion as to how many toys parents should buy their kids. Take a look at this said this week.
- [17:17]
Kristen Welker
Got a lot of attention. You were at your cabinet meeting. You said, quote, I'm going to quote what you said. Maybe the children will have two dolls instead of 30 dolls.
- [17:25]
Donald Trump
Yeah.
- [17:25]
Kristen Welker
And maybe the two dolls will cost a couple of bucks more than they would normally. Are you saying that your tariffs will cause some prices to go up?
- [17:34]
Donald Trump
No, I think the tariffs are going to be great for us because it's going to make us rich.
- [17:37]
Kristen Welker
But you said some dolls are going to cost more. Isn't that an acknowledgement that some prices will go up?
- [17:42]
Donald Trump
I don't think a beautiful baby girl needs, that's 11 years old, needs to have 30 dolls. I think they can have three dolls or four dolls because what we were doing with China was just unbelievable. We had a trade deficit of hundreds of billions of dollars with China.
- [18:00]
Kristen Welker
When you say they could have $3 instead of $30, are you saying you don't need Americans could see empty store shelves.
- [18:07]
Donald Trump
No, I'm, no, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying they don't need to have $30. They can have three. They don't need to have 250 pencils. They can have five.
- [18:15]
David Pakman
So think of it, you know, the sort of Department of Central Planning and Child Rearing of the Trump administration has determined they know not the parents. They know what is the right number of dolls and pencils and pens that each child should have to make it a beautiful country. It is reminiscent of authoritarian dictators. It's reminiscent of Kim Jong Un saying, here are the five haircuts you're allowed to choose from and here are the six books you're allowed to read your kids. It's not that, but it is much closer to that than the total free market parents know best. Let them figure things out, make everything available through the market and let the parents decide. Another departure from a principle that they claim to hold dear and all of a sudden doesn't matter. Trump really giving up the game. Now here's another incredible moment. Moment. We've understood casually that Trump wants credit for anything good that happens in his economy while he is President, and he wants to blame Biden or maybe even Obama for anything bad that happens economically while he is president. Kristen Welker asked him an astute question, a reasonable question. When does it become the Trump economy? And Trump really gives it up by saying, well, the good things are because of me, but the bad things are because of Biden. Take a look at this.
- [19:51]
Donald Trump
You deal very badly. We'll see how that all turns out. But it's got to be a fair deal.
- [19:55]
Kristen Welker
When does it become the Trump economy?
- [19:58]
Donald Trump
It partially is right now. And I really mean this. I think the good parts of the Trump economy and the bad parts are the Biden economy, because he's done a terrible job. He did a terrible job on everything from his auto pen, which I'm sure he knew nothing about, some of the things he was supposedly signing.
- [20:15]
Kristen Welker
But, sir, you acknowledge when you announced your tariffs, for example, the stock market dropped. It's been volatile. It has since gone up. Do you take responsibility?
- [20:24]
Donald Trump
Look at that.
- [20:26]
Kristen Welker
Yeah. Do you take responsibility when it drops?
- [20:28]
Donald Trump
Ultimately, I take responsibility for everything. But I've only just been here for a little more than three months, so.
- [20:35]
David Pakman
Listen, at least he's being honest, right? And it's up to the American people to decide, is that a valid way to analyze the economy a priori, anything good that happens is thanks to Trump, and anything bad that happens is because of the vestiges of the Joe Biden administration. Do I believe that as an American who can think for myself? I don't. I don't believe it. But apparently there are some people that follow this guy who do believe it. Another sort of, like, funny but also terrifying moment. Welker mentions some items have gotten more expensive. Strollers, tires. I have friends who have particular stroller brands that they like, and now they need another piece for it or a new one or whatever. They're saying the price is crazy compared to what it was when I had my last kid. And Trump goes, this is a dishonest interview. Because you're bringing that up. Always his instinct, attack the interviewer.
- [21:33]
Kristen Welker
Prices are already going up on some popular items. Tires, strollers.
- [21:38]
Donald Trump
This is such a dishonest interview already.
- [21:41]
David Pakman
Yeah. So zero accountability. Continued gaslighting. Not really a surprise. We then get to the very important topic of tariffs. How is they work? Trump still doesn't understand how they work. Take a look at this.
- [21:58]
Kristen Welker
I guess you're talking about this transition cost. How long should people expect that transition to last?
- [22:03]
Donald Trump
Mr. President, I can't tell you that. I can tell you that we're Making a lot of money. We're doing great. Again, we're losing more than $5 billion a day. $5 billion a day. You don't talk about that. And right now we're going to be at a point very soon where we're making money every day. Look how soon we were losing hundreds of billions of dollars with China. Now we're essentially not doing business with China, therefore, we're saving hundreds of billions of dollars. Very simple.
- [22:37]
Kristen Welker
You take me to my next question.
- [22:39]
David Pakman
Which is so I know my audience knows by now, this is not how tariffs work. Trump lacks a firm grasp of the one issue that he built his campaign around. Who pays the tariffs? How do they work? And of course, we have an economy based around. Based around buying stuff more cheaply from other countries than we could make it here. You can say you don't like it, you can say you want to change it, but to say that it's China ripping us off or that we are losing money, you know, Trump, Trump the other day said, we've sent $1.1 trillion to China.
- [23:23]
Unknown
Right.
- [23:24]
David Pakman
But they've sent us $1.1 trillion worth of stuff. It's called trade. And so this was supposed to be the issue he really understood. He has no grasp of it whatsoever. Then the question comes up of military action. Remember, we've been told the real anti war president is Donald Trump. What does Trump say when asked, would you be willing to send American troops to claim foreign territory? Trump says it could happen with respect.
- [23:50]
Donald Trump
To Greenland, but we need that for international security. Do you know we have Russian boats and we have Chinese boats, gunships all over the place, aircraft carriers, gunship relationships going up and down the coast of Greenland. We, we need that to be protected internationally. We need it.
- [24:06]
Kristen Welker
So you are willing to send US Troops to claim a sovereign territory?
- [24:12]
Donald Trump
I didn't say that. You asked me a question. Would you. Is there a circumstance it could happen? I doubt it will, but it certainly could happen with respect to Greenland.
- [24:21]
Kristen Welker
Okay, let me.
- [24:22]
David Pakman
Can you imagine, folks, could. This is a level of belligerence, bloodthirsty belligerence. And yet Tulsi told us this is the anti war guy. Trump said he's the anti war guy. Funny moment. The topic of Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett comes up. Trump says she's low iq. This is a common thing that Trump says, I believe disproportionately about black people. Check the facts on it. Here's what he had to say.
- [24:54]
Donald Trump
I look at the Democrats, they're in total disarray. They have A new person named Crockett. I watched her speak the other day. She's definitely a low IQ person. And they said she's the future of the party. I said, you have to be kidding.
- [25:08]
David Pakman
And. And then finally the topic of cryptocurrency comes up. Trump is asked, are you profiting off of cryptocurrency? Trump goes, oh, I have no idea. I haven't even looked.
- [25:22]
Kristen Welker
Not. You're not profiting off of the cryptocurrency?
- [25:26]
Donald Trump
I haven't even looked. I'll tell you what, look, if I own stock and something and I do a good job and the stock market goes up, I guess I'm profiting. But who really profits is somebody like Nancy Pelosi, who uses inside information. She worked for $175,000 a year, and that's at the high end. And she's worth 150, $200 million. Okay, you ought to look at Nancy Pelosi and you ought to look at some of these politicians that are stone cold crooks. I was very wealthy when I came in. Being president, I probably cost me money. If you really look.
- [26:04]
David Pakman
Trump is hosting a dinner for the top holders of his Meme coin and is very obviously profiting. And then they continue with the crypto stuff. And this is really funny. Now, both Trump and Kristen Welker seem confused about this crypto stuff. But Kristen Welker starts telling him, she's trying to tell him the price of a coin, and Trump's like, are you talking about billions of dollars?
- [26:30]
Kristen Welker
Take a look at this about something I don't think you've been asked much about, which is you've branded your own cryptocurrency. The coins values actually surged recently after you announced that top holders would be invited to have dinner.
- [26:47]
Donald Trump
I don't even know that. What did it surge to?
- [26:49]
Kristen Welker
What did it surge to?
- [26:51]
Donald Trump
Yeah, what's it worth? You might as well tell me because I have no idea.
- [26:53]
Kristen Welker
Well, it surged. It surged. I will find it. Hold on one second. 5.2 or 58%. So 58% to what number? That's not bad. 14.32.
- [27:10]
David Pakman
What?
- [27:13]
Kristen Welker
No dollars per cryptocurrency?
- [27:15]
Donald Trump
Billion dollars?
- [27:16]
Kristen Welker
No.
- [27:17]
Donald Trump
What's the number? I mean, what is the amount?
- [27:19]
Kristen Welker
The Meme coins value hit a peak of 75, 35 on January 19th.
- [27:24]
Donald Trump
That doesn't mean anything.
- [27:25]
Kristen Welker
And that's before your inauguration. And then it surged.
- [27:28]
Donald Trump
Look, I'm in favor of crypto.
- [27:29]
Kristen Welker
Okay, let me just ask you, what do you say to those who argue that when they hear that they worry you're profiting from the presidency.
- [27:36]
Donald Trump
I'm not profiting from anything. I'm just, all I'm doing is, you know, I, I started this long before the election. I want crypto. I think crypto is important because if we don't do it, China's going to.
- [27:48]
David Pakman
And yes. So to be frank, they're both sounding pretty damn confused about what all of this means, but okay, at least it's a topic that came up. And then finally here, always a reliable trope. Trump lies about the price of gas.
- [28:04]
Kristen Welker
And I want to talk about China. But just staying on this idea of the economy. On the eve of your inauguration, the stock market spiked. You called it the Trump effect. Are you.
- [28:16]
Donald Trump
It spiked because I was elected president. Well, it spiked because of anybody else. It spiked because they see what I'm going to do. They know what I'm going to do with the tariffs and everything else. And I think it's actually working out better than we anticipated. Did you see oil prices? Did you see gasoline is now below, in many cases, in many states, below $2 a gallon. 198, 199, 197.
- [28:40]
Kristen Welker
Well, my.
- [28:40]
David Pakman
So you can check it out for yourself on gas buddies price charts. Gas prices have not been below 295 since Donald Trump became president. And they're now at around $3.15 per gallon. So the strategy here is strategic confusion, real confusion, complete lack of factual knowledge when it comes to how economic policy works, and then just lie and say things are much different than they if actually pressed. A disastrous interview. If Biden gave an interview like this, and by the way, Biden gave some pretty bad interviews, they would all be calling for the immediate use of the 25th Amendment. And by the way, more and more people are. But we'll get to that later. Let's now go to an incredible 60 Minutes report about a potentially impeachable offense. On 60 Minutes yesterday, trial attorney John Kecker accused Trump of an impeachable offense. This is a top attorney who is saying the quiet part out loud. Donald Trump may be guilty of bribery. And this is exactly the kind of offense that the Constitution specifically says is grounds for impeachment. This claim came as John Kecker, who's, he's one of these high profile San Francisco lawyers, he said to 60 Minutes yesterday, Trump's executive orders targeting major law firms, which we have covered in other blisteringly authoritarian move. Those could amount to a, quote, thing of value in return for an official act. We call that a bribe. In polite society. And Kecker says, and we're going to watch the clip. Anybody else who came to Washington and said, I will give you $100 million of free legal services if you do this for me would be convicted of a bribe. Let's take a look.
- [30:34]
John Kecker
Look, you're at the mercy of the government and it really, it's like a protection racket. John Kecker is a prominent attorney and Democrat in San Francisco. You're not suggesting that the President's running a protection racket? I am, I'm, I'm, I'm suggesting that he is violating the rule that says you can't offer a thing of value in return for an official act. That happens to be the definition of bribery. Anybody else who came to Washington and said, I will give you $100 million of free legal services if you do this for me would be convicted of a bribe.
- [31:14]
David Pakman
Okay, so what is he talking about? Trump has been retaliating against law firms that have crossed him, especially those involved in investigations or lawsuits against him or against his allies, by cutting them off for fed from federal contracts and revoking their security clearances, which makes it really difficult for them to do a lot of the work that they do. The only way that they can get back in is if they strike a deal with the White House to perform massive amounts of pro bono work for Trump backed causes. Now, nine major law firms have already folded and they've agreed to provide nearly a billion dollars in free legal services. That is not just aggressive politics. This is using the federal government to extract value from a private firm in exchange for access, by the way, not something typically associated with capitalistic societies, but something very often seen in authoritarian, communistic, centrally planned societies. But put that aside for a moment. According to Kecker, this is textbook corruption and it's impeachable. Scadden, Arps, Slate, Meager and Flom is one of them. Quite a mouthful. That's one of the world's largest law firms. They signed on for $100 million in free work. Attorney Brenna Frey resigned in protest and warned the firm was tacitly saying, we won't fight in court. And this is a chilling admission for a profession that is supposed to hold the government accountable. Mark Elias is another prominent lawyer who's been on this show. He's been targeted in Trump's orders as well. Mark Elias described the whole scheme as, quote, like a mob boss intimidating the neighborhood. He said Trump is the walking embodiment of everything that is wrong with the American political system. And of course, that's true. So it's not just legal experts raising alarms. A federal judge has ruled that one of Trump's executive orders was unconstitutional retaliation and blocked its enforcement. And what that means is that the courts are already starting to push back on what does look like an abuse of power to kind of complete the circle of corruption. Trump's pressure campaign has reached 60 minutes itself, where this interview aired. And Paramount, which is the show's parent company, has tried to rein in reporting, awaiting the Trump administration approval for a corporate merger. It's disgusting. It's the worst of crony, capitalist, monopolistic, authoritarian politics. And an executive, as you know, resigned from 60 Minutes we talked about last week in protest. So it's not just hurt feelings and bad optics if what Jon Kecker is alleging holds up. We are talking about the direct exchange of favors using the power of the presidency. It's bribery, but it's also impeachable. And where we are left is asking the same question we've been asking increasingly over the last two months. What does it mean for something to be against the law if there is no practical means, method and volition to hold the lawbreakers accountable when the lawbreakers are Trump and people associated with Trump? This is why I'm hearing from so many in our audience saying, david, I'm leaving the country. There's no way to fight back. They're just doing whatever the hell they want. I can't say I blame them. That's a. I can't believe I'm saying it, but I can't say I blame them.
- [34:48]
Unknown
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- [37:22]
David Pakman
The floodgates on Donald Trump's mental decline have been blown wide open because what used to be subtle rambling answers and odd tangents and confused moments, they are now becoming impossible to ignore, even for people around Donald Trump. He is not just slipping. This is a guy unraveling in real time. And the interviews we've seen recently, the interview from yesterday that we looked at today with Kristen Welker, these are increasingly clear evidence that something here is very wrong. Now, I want to call your attention back to that interview with Time magazine from last week where Trump was asked about a John Adams famous quote, we're a government of laws, not of men. And Trump, even in transcript form, seemed extraordinarily confused. John Adams said that where where was the painting? And of course the painting was right behind Donald Trump. And Trump just seemed totally disoriented. These are not gotchas. These are prompts so soft that they could have been scripted, but Trump just can't follow the thread. And from there it spirals. He claimed that he finished the wall but also needed to build more. He was told about a car bombing in Moscow, and he asked who killed what. Of course, the reporter had just told him a Russian general was killed in Moscow. And it no longer is a matter of opinion or exaggeration. This is a confusion that is happening every single day on camera at this point, and it's really not new. Now, if you dig through Trump interviews going back to the 1980s, you will see that he was never particularly sharp. Ask him a follow up question, anything that requires depth or going beyond just the one talking point he knows, and he's been completely lost for a long time. Bob Woodward interviewed Trump back in 2016 and we now have the raw audio available in the audiobook war. It's painful to listen to because Trump doesn't explain policy. He can't explain policy. He free associates buzzwords until people stop pressing him. And it's also no secret that Trump speaks at a fifth grade level and that resonates. And as much of the explanation as to how Trump caught on in the first place, because more than half of this country operates at a fifth grade reading level or below. So when Trump talks in these broken sentences and low vocabulary fragments, it doesn't register as incoherent to a lot of people. It sounds familiar. And this is the sort of crutch or explanation for how Trump's been able to get away with such simplistic linguistic abilities for so long. Even worse, our brains are wired to make conversations make sense to us. And linguists have been interviewed about this. The human mind will fill in gaps in logic automatically. So when Trump is only mildly incoherent, we all our brains automatically, naturally sort of fill in the incoherence with coherence based on what we believe Donald Trump is talking about. So. So when Trump says something like, I built the wall and we need to keep building it because it was working, many listeners don't even hear the contradiction. They mentally patch it up. And it sort of feels like Donald Trump is making a point. But what's now happening is that the gaps are sort of getting too big to ignore. Trump recently insisted that a deported man, abrego Garcia, had MS.13 tattoos on his knuckles based on a picture that was blatantly Photoshop. Photoshopped. Even when Trump was shown proof of that, he still doubled down. He confused the question about Harvard with made up riots in Harlem. It had one thing, had nothing to do with the other. And he dropped into that conversation last week, you might recall with Stephen A. Smith that he had a very high black vote, even though nobody brought that up. In another moment, he Told Time he's, he's told TIME interviewed Biden last year and his response is huh? And then he claims he read the interview and that Biden didn't do well in the interview. But it's clear he didn't actually read anything. He's just reacting. He's making it up. He doesn't know what he's talking about. So let's kind of get to the implications of this, which is really what I think is most relevant for the next three and a half years. Years. Trump may not meet the medical criteria for clinical dementia. He talks about how he always passes his brain injury testing. That very well may be. He may not be lying about that. He's lying that it's a really tough test, but he may not be lying that that is a test that he passed. Maybe he wouldn't be diagnosed with anything specific if he had a serious neuropsych evaluation. But anybody can notice that he's constantly confused, doesn't understand the issues and has significant language deteriorations. He can't absorb basic information or remember what he said in past interviews. That alone is enough to say he shouldn't be president. We're not talking anything beyond that. It's just, is this someone who should be president? And of course you'll remember corporate media and right wing media dissecting every Biden study. And now those same people have nothing to say. There's no wall to wall outrage, there's no think pieces, there's no op eds because they are afraid to admit the obvious, which is that Trump is showing signs of decline. You don't have to say it's dementia. You don't have to say it's Alzheimer's. It very well may not be. But these are not verbal slip ups. These are memory lapses, delusions and a complete detachment from reality. I don't want to make this a partisan issue. We saw Biden's poor debate performance and at that point I and others said he is not up to the task. I've argued we need younger, sharper candidates for a long time. I just want some consistency, which is if you're going to call out Biden, you have to call this out too. Because we're not just seeing aging from Trump. It's deterioration. Deterioration is not a clinical or medical diagnosis. It's a manifestation of what is going on with the guy. We don't have to medicalize it. And pretending otherwise doesn't just lower the bar for what is acceptable leadership. It actually puts the entire country at risk. So I want to open it to you, you can email infodavidpakman.com what do you think is at the root of what we are observing from Trump? Trump? Is it that he does you know, there's another argument to be made. Yes, he has the linguistic deterioration, but the constant confusion is he doesn't give a about being president. He just wants to golf and do mean dinners meme coin dinners and that it's just that he doesn't care. Fine, let me know if that's your opinion, but I want to hear from you. Infoavidpakman.com what do you think is at the core or the root of the confusion and delusions that we've seen lately from Trump?
- [44:48]
Unknown
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- [47:19]
David Pakman
You know, you almost have to admire the shamelessness that Megyn Kelly operates with on her show. Megyn Kelly, who has spent the last many years rebranding from Fox News flamethrower to I guess like podcast contrarian. But still, Trump supporter Megyn Kelly seemed to be encouraging the Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, to consider running for president again. And Tulsi did not say no. And this is absolutely terrifying. And when asked whether she might run in 2028 and become the first woman president, Tulsi said she would never rule out any way of maybe helping her country. Now we're going to look at the clip in a moment. This is a woman who has spent the last several years appearing on far right platforms, parroting Russian propaganda, talking points about Ukraine and Syria and elsewhere, campaigning against LGBTQ rights, serving as a regular guest on Tucker Carlson's show before it was canceled, praising authoritarian leaders, smearing the Democratic Party as the enemy within, and cozying up to the disgusting orbit of Steve Bannon, a walking national security risk. And now we are seeing a coordinated effort to launder her image again. Take a look at this.
- [48:40]
Megyn Kelly
As I've listened to you over this hour, I've had one thought recur to me over and over and over and it is first female president. That is what I like. I look at you and I see and I know they put you through the meat grinder the last time, but that was the other side. Now you've crossed over. And so I just wonder, thank you.
- [49:01]
Tulsi Gabbard
For not saying transition. People use that word. It's like, okay, that's one of those words that's like for a certain thing.
- [49:08]
Unknown
It's no.
- [49:10]
Megyn Kelly
But notwithstanding how rough that was when you ran for president the first time, have you ruled out ever doing it again? Could we potentially see a Tulsi 2028 try?
- [49:25]
Tulsi Gabbard
I will never rule out any opportunity to serve my country. I would not have if we had talked a year ago, the thought would not have crossed my mind that I would be here and that we would be having this conversation. My decisions in my life have always been made around how can I best be of Service to God. How can I best be of service to our country? And that is what has led me here. I'm grateful for this opportunity and I will continue to chase those opportunities where I can make the most positive impact and be of service.
- [50:03]
David Pakman
There's a reason that the Republican Party loves Tulsi. She gives them a former Democrat at that can point to that, that they can point to who says all the same things they do. She figured it out. She's a weaponized contrarian. She's a former soldier turned isolationist Trump supporter. And Megan Kelly, playing her role as far right kingmaker, really wants her to run. And the subtext is clear. This is someone who realized how terrible the Democratic Party is and has come over to see the light fight. And it's, of course, extraordinarily dangerous because Tulsi Gabbard, with a national campaign platform, would be an unrestrained propaganda machine. She has helped to legitimize narratives that undermine support for Ukraine and cast doubt on Covid science and spread disinformation during the 2020 campaign. And if we're honest with ourselves, this is also what happens when contrarianism is rewarded over accuracy. Tulsi's entire brand is taking the anti position. She's anti woke, she's anti war, she's anti Biden, she's anti trans. It's not about solutions, which is common. It's about building a brand of personal grievance and, of course, loyalty at this point to Donald Trump. I don't think she could win if she ran, but I do think she'd be given a megaphone by the cynics and the opportunists who would love to see her in there in 2028. And every minute she's on a debate stage is another minute that the far right's talking points get broadcast from yet another voice. So I don't see this as a serious presidential prospect. It is an intelligence community nightmare waiting to happen, and it is absolutely terrifying stuff. But the fact that Megyn Kelly is already starting to talk about it definitely should at least scare us that they may very well be serious about this. You know, we've talked about, oh, is it going to be J.D. vance? Is it going to be Don Jr. Maybe running alongside J.D. vance in 2028? There are some dangerous, pernicious ideas out there, and Tulsi Gabbard is certainly one of them. Donald Trump gave a commencement speech at the University of Alabama. Sort of an interesting choice to pick a guy who can barely talk and read coherently to deliver A speech to college educated graduates. It's a little weird, but okay. Now, I do think it's important to mention because of the obsession with crowd size that Trump speaking and the place is looking pretty empty in the picture that we are putting up here. But let's look at some of what Donald Trump said. Said. One of the things was he alluded to how all the tech people, the Internet people, as he calls them, Elon Musk included, kissed Trump's ass. And it is sort of. Even though he doesn't target Elon specifically, you know, he's a little bit grammatically ambiguous in the language, the way he uses it. Is he including Elon in this or not? He certainly is not giving Elon the sendoff that I'm sure Elon Musk was expecting. Take a look at this.
- [53:21]
Donald Trump
You have to have the right vision. If you look at some of these Internet people, I know so many of them, Elon is so terrific. But I know now all of them, you know, they all hated me in my first term and now they're kissing my ass. You know, do you know it's true? All of them, it's true.
- [53:40]
David Pakman
Remember that everything is transactional for Donald Trump. While they're sucking up to me, I'm glad when all of a sudden they aren't or it starts to become a political liability that they are. I kind of ridicule them and position myself as the alpha whose approval and favors they come to seek. It's like, well, you're the president, after all. Trump also said to the students at the University of Alabama, it's all going to be great really soon. Thanks to me. A really inspiring message to graduates who want to go out and chart their own path and figure out their place in the world and what do want to do. It's always all about Donald Trump. Take a look.
- [54:24]
Donald Trump
Graduating at an exciting time for our nation. A period of both extraordinary change and incredible potential. And what will be unbelievable growth. You're going to see that very soon. You're going to see it starting very, very soon. The whole world is talking about it.
- [54:42]
David Pakman
The main character in every movie, video game, novel and news story is Donald Trump. Trump also, by the way, throwing Harvard under the bus. Many of you know that Donald Trump is increasingly at odds with Harvard University trying to strip nonprofit status and demanding that they sign on with some abandonment of DEI policies. Okay, so here is Trump saying it's not going to be the Harvard graduates that are really going to make the change. It's going to be you all here.
- [55:13]
Donald Trump
It is clear to see. The next chapter of the American story will not be written by the Harvard Crimson. It will be written by you, the Crimson Tide.
- [55:27]
David Pakman
A president of all Americans saying that the graduates of some universities, they're not so good. Not so good. But over here, on the other hand, the ones from Alabama, really, really great people. Wow. Not what you would expect to see from a president of the United States until now. At which point it makes perfect sense. Donald Trump also lost it with a reporter from the Wall Street Journal and suffered a complete meltdown on Air Force One calling it a rotten newspaper and bad for the country. Take a look at this.
- [56:09]
Unknown
Who are you with? That's what I. Well, you, you people treat us so badly. Wall Street Journal has truly gone to hell. Go ahead. A rotten newspaper. You hear what I said? It's a rotten newspaper. I wouldn't tell the Wall Street Journal because they'd be wasting my time. There are talks, but I don't want to talk to the Wall Street Journal. But look, Wall Street Journal is China oriented and they're really bad for this country.
- [56:41]
David Pakman
So this is an interesting one because of course, Trump's hostile to any news outlet that reports anything but total and complete adulation of Trump. We know all that. That's not new. But what's interesting about this one is that the Wall Street Journal is actually really right wing wing. Now, there have been editorials recently in the Wall Street Journal, we've covered them, that are more critical of Trump. Editorials that say if this continues down this crazy tariff path, we're going to have a recession or impeachment. Remember last week or the week before an op ed in the Wall Street Journal? Impeachment may be the most logical way out of this entire thing. But the Wall Street Journal is still part of news corporations and is still a right wing publication. But that's not enough. It's simply not enough for Trump. And I guess Trump is still upset to some degree with the Wall Street Journal for their reporting on his accolades with Stormy Daniels. Now, maybe more interestingly, during this little stand up mini press conference on Air Force One, Trump talked once again about China ripping us off. And he raises Richard Nixon. And this is a very interesting thing because it shows again, if you zoom out, he has no idea about the economic history of this country, which is critical to understand. If you, if you want to know how we got to where we are, let's take a look at this, then we'll talk about it.
- [58:07]
Unknown
Well, you know, I want a fair deal with China, but China's been ripping us off for many years. So maybe something should be thought about, you know, a little bit of retribution. China's been ripping us us off for many years, ever since they started, to me, I think was the worst thing that Richard Nixon ever did. And it was interesting. Yeah, he's the one that got it started.
- [58:27]
David Pakman
And they've taken advantage of so under. So Trump still doesn't know how tariffs work fine in the 1970s. Richard Nixon worked with China to shift the balance of power during the Cold War. And it wasn't just about trade. It was really about weakening the Soviet Union and giving the United States more global leverage. But what happened was that over time, the relationship grew, and China joined the World Trade organization in 2001. American companies took advantage of cheap manufacturing. American consumers got cheaper products. Corporations made profits. It wasn't a scam. It was the plan. And this is why it's so important to understand the history of this. We as a country decided. And when I say we as a country decided, I don't mean Reagan said we now offshore and get cheap crap from China. It wasn't like that. But what I mean is that if you go back to the 70s and push forward, it's little decision after little decision after little decision not to punish the offshoring of labor, not to strategically tariff incoming products. We built an economy through cumulative hundreds or thousands of little decisions. We built an economy that is based on preferring cheap stuff from overseas. Cheap because labor is cheaper, rather than manufacturing here and paying more. Some jobs moved overseas.
- [60:02]
Unknown
That's true.
- [60:03]
David Pakman
A lot of people, including both Republican and Democratic leaders, supported the strategy for decades. They said, this is the best thing thing. We trade, we get the cheaper stuff. We can become more of a service economy. That's what they wanted to do. Now, Trump may not like it. Trump may want something different. You may not like it, I may not like it. In some general sense, we might all say it would be great to manufacture things domestically. But the question is, do we want to pay the prices that that will require? And do we want, however many years of. Of acutely higher prices with these blanket tariff schemes? Do we accept that as part of getting to where we want to go? And for the most part, it seems that the answer is no. It's not a question of virtue, and it's not a question of whether tariffs are objectively good or objectively bad. Tariffs are an economic tool that can be deployed usefully or not usefully. You know, I've got this computer mouse here. It's like, is the computer mouse a good tool. It's a fantastic tool for controlling my computer. It's a terrible tool if I'm trying to make a beef Wellington, unless I'm using the mouse to find the recipe, I guess. But you, you get the point here. The question now becomes we've got a guy leading the blanket tariffs who sees what we buy from China as them stealing from us. But when he said we sent them $1.1 trillion, they sent us $1.1 trillion worth of stuff. And so he's dangerously uninformed and completely clueless. And that's the terrifying bottom line. Interesting to hear him bring up Richard Nixon. On the bonus show today, Donald Trump is announcing 100% tariffs on movies produced in foreign lands. Okay. Oklahoma wants to teach kids Trump's false version of the 2020 election. They want to teach the controversy when there is no controversy. And also, the Trump administration wants to reopen Alcatraz prison, a place I've been to many times. I know it intimately. All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Sign up at joinpakman. Com.