← The David Pakman Show
The David Pakman Show
5/7/25: Canadian PM confronts Trump, Dems need a wakeup call
01:02:57
-- On the Show: -- Tim Myers, running for Congress to represent California's 41st district, join David to discuss the campaign -- Democrats desperately need a wake-up call if they want to win again -- Attorney General Pam Bondi's pathetic...
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- [00:08]
David Pakman
Welcome, everybody. Good to be back in the studio. We're starting today with a much needed wake up call for Democrats. Donald Trump is, of course, president again. Kamala Harris lost, Democrats lost the House, lost the Senate in November. And we've been doing a sort of extended postmortem figuring out what happened, why did it happen, Ken, and how can Democrats win again? And I think this is maybe going to be a bit of a tough story for some to hear, especially now that there are many, many staffers for House and Senate Democrats that regularly listen to the show. But I think this has to be done. And I've been thinking as the months and weeks have gone, and we're now several months into Trump's term, thinking about what happened and what needs to happen, and let's see if we can make some sense out of it. And the whole point here is we have to avert disaster and we have to avert disaster in the off year elections this year, the midterms in 2026, and ideally be set up to win in 2028. If the Democratic Party's takeaway right now is Trump's governing right now is a disaster. And that's all we have to do. And we're going to win. We're going, going to be fine. They've learned nothing. Now let me kind of contextualize. I've never been a Democrat. I don't particularly like political parties. I see them as institutional machines, not all that different from corporations. Corporations main goal is profit. Political parties main goal is self preservation, brand management and making their candidates win. I vote for the better candidates, and often those candidates come from the Democratic Party. But I have no particular loyalty to the organization. And that's why I can say without hesitation that the Democratic Party is in a crisis right now. This is not a hit piece. This is a warning, because I want the Democratic Party to fix the problems so that this MAGA insanity doesn't continue. Now think back to 2020. Joe Biden won essentially by not being Trump. He didn't need a deeply resonant agenda. He needed to be like a safe port in a storm. And in 2020, that was enough because Trump was in power and the pitch was, let's remove Trump. We are the out party. Let's get rid of this guy. And it worked. In 2024, Democrats were incumbents and simply pointing out Trump is a danger was not enough. It's a strategy that worked in 2020, but it collapsed under its own emptiness. In 2024, voters reasonably wanted to know what are you doing for me? What are you fighting for? And too often the answer from Democrats was either convoluted, forgettable or nonexistent. Two of the clearest failures in 2024 were on immigration and on crime. I've now talked with enough Democrats. Cory Booker, Gavin Newsom, Jamie Raskin. So many we've talked now and had enough conversations that it's clear that there needs to be a more cohesive message than what Kamala Harris was offering. Vague statements and efforts to change the subject didn't work. Voters heard the Republican Party screaming about the border. 24. Seven Democrats responded by waving it off as either exaggerated or a distraction. Now, that was true. It was exaggerated and a distraction. But that alone was not persuasive to voters. Same thing about concerns regarding crime. We've talked about this before. People say, I'm seeing crime in my community. I need to hear what you're going to do. It is true that nationally crime has been declining. Violent crime, nonviolent crime, property crime. That is absolutely true. But simply being told that didn't work wasn't enough for voters. And so if you don't address people's fears, real or imagined, and some of them are imagined, I'm the first to tell you, if you don't address people's fears, they will turn to whoever does, even if that person is lying to them. Trump was lying to them, but it worked. So you don't win by ignoring concerns. You win by reframing them and responding with something better. And this is the part that people miss. I regularly interview Democratic senators, governors, members of the House of Representatives on their own. They're very sharp. They handle criticism well. They know the facts. They're grounded and competent, which Republicans widely are not. But competence isn't a winning strategy. I wish it were. You can have 100 good answers and still lose if no one knows what your party stands for and who your party is for. And the Republican Party tells a dangerous story about who they're for. They say they're for the forgotten man, the real American. And the Democrats often offer bullet points that don't resonate. Democrats often believe that having the better policy is enough. And I wish it were, but it's not. Kamala Harris floated, you might remember, was it a tax credit or a deduction? I don't even remember which. And this is part of the problem. A tax credit or a deduction for small business startup costs. Good idea. On paper. Fell flat. No one talked about it. No one felt anything when she would talk about that. And Meanwhile, Trump promised tariffs and mass deportations and who the hell knows what else. And it was ridiculous. It made no sense, but people felt it. Republicans sell fantasy better than Democrats sell reality. And if a policy doesn't resonate, it's not a political asset, no matter how good a policy it is. It's like a tree falling in a forest and there's nobody there, so nobody hears it. Democrats love to say the right is obsessed with distractions. Trans athletes, drag shows, woke Eminem's that aren't attractive enough for Tucker Carlson. And all of that stuff is true. These are tribal dog whistles. Dog whistles like a dog. But just saying these are distractions is not enough because people are attaching identity to these fights. You can't win by saying that's not important if people have already been convinced it's important even if they've convinced been convinced of that by lies. You win by saying, here is what we believe, here's who we protect, here's what actually matters in your life. The dismissals sound like elitism and they lead to losing while the world is falling apart. Democrats are speaking in like Obama era cadences. Cool, calm, collected and bipartisan. And I like it, but I'm not the average person. And it's out of sync with the emotional temperature of the country right now. Republicans are always campaigning like it's an emergency. Democrats sometimes use the language of emergency, but campaign more like it's a board meeting and there's this mismatch in tone that's jarring and costly. And right now we do have an emergency. Democrats talk Republican chaos, but then behind the scenes, the right is actually incredibly disciplined. They run this coordinated media machine that drives a single narrative across cable, YouTube, podcasts and TikTok. Democrats tweet, send out press releases and kind of hope MSNBC picks up the story. It's not a fair fight because Democrats are fighting as if the political environment is one that hasn't existed for more than a decade. So what does the Democratic Party make people feel and hope? What about dignity and all of this? And usually it's kind of a bland managerialism. Here's our 12 point plan for expanding access to opportunity. Okay, it could be a great plan, but what does it mean? Why should someone care right now? There's an emotionality that is missing. And if you can't connect emotionally, you lose. Even if you're right and Democrats are right on a lot of these issues, progressive energy tends to scare Democratic leadership, Gen Z activists and labor organizers and independent creators. These should be core assets. And often they're treated like sort of PR liabilities. And there's always this fear, will it sound too far left or will it whatever? But that question only matters if you don't know what you stand for in the first place. The party's kind of constant self censorship will often turn very good, bold ideas into pretty lukewarm slogans. And then enthusiasm turns into like, yeah, I guess that's better. I don't know. So let me say this plainly. There are specific issues here that need to be solved. Now, I think sort of cautiously, optimistically, Democrats have not really known how to work with independent media. Sometimes, you know, like, they reach out. Some of them used to appear on this show. And I appreciate that. But showing up on a podcast October 15th really isn't a media strategy. It's a guest appearance. And Republicans are building these media empires, ecosystems, grooming influencers, and they have the digital machine, while Democrats still are treating media as a place to send talking points. And so to the extent that Democrats are figuring that out, and listen, I'm in some group chats and creator summits and strategy zooms, and there is a change that is starting, and I'm cautiously optimistic about that. But too often the relationship with independent media is not one that's really going to help Democrats win. So let's step back for a second. What we need here is a plan. There needs to be a theory of change, a reason to believe. And this is not a call, certainly not a call to give up on Democrats. I mean, it's the opposite. I believe that right now, the values of the Democratic Party are much better for the country than those of the Republican Party. They're more workable, they're economically more justifiable, they're morally more justifiable. It's just that that's not enough. And so if Democrats don't fix their tone and their strategy and their relationship to the voters that they claim to fight for, they're going to lose again, because working class voters did say to a great enough degree that Kamala Harris lost and Democrats lost the House and the Senate just months ago. Democrats did say working class voters rather said, I don't. I'm not super impressed with what the Democratic Party is offering here. So Trump is not the ceiling of Republican extremism. He's the floor. It could get worse. And I don't want to wake up in a world where the next version that's even worse in 2026 or 2028 wins by even more. So this is the starting point. This is the starting point. Let me know what you think. Donald Trump's Attorney general just floated sending prisoners to Alcatraz. Now, why did she, Pam Bondi, suggest sending prisoners to this defunct island prison off the coast of San Francisco? Because Donald Trump suggested it. And there is nothing too ridiculous for Pam Bondi to be on her knees praying to the altar of Donald Trump. She also ranted about Molly, the drug, but she doesn't even sound totally sure what she's talking about. What is certain is, is that Pam Bondi is completely unqualified and clearly auditioning for who the hell knows what in Trump's second term. Loyalty is everything, and competence, not so much. So let's start with this moment that feels kind of like it was ripped from a bad parody of a 1990s action film. Bondi on live TV saying, we are going to send people to Alcatraz.
- [12:11]
Pam Bondi
This guy is the leader. He's the number one guy. And I want them to stay in our prisons as long as possible. I've no, no desire to send them back to Mexico because they were coming across our border illegally. No longer will they be able to do that. But the amount of drugs, the amount of money, the amount of weapons, most of these individuals, if convicted, will remain in American prisons. Perhaps Alcatraz.
- [12:40]
David Pakman
Perhaps Alcatraz, a prison that's been closed for 60 years now, a tourist attraction. You can get a hoodie there and learn about the lore of the place. The idea that anybody is going to be sent to Alcatraz as a prison is laughably unserious. But that's the point. Pam Bondi isn't trying to be serious. She's trying to be loyal. And her entire job now is to affirm every single Trump fantasy. There is no Trump fantasy. Too absurd for her to say we're going to do it. If Trump says we're reopening Alcatraz, she will nod and, you know, maybe suggest we put Anthony Fauci, as some of them refer to him, in a cell. But as we talked about, it's just not going to happen. Prison. Federal prison population is down 25%. There's empty space all over the country in federal prisons. Why would you spend years rehabbing Alcatraz? It's just not going to happen. And then Pam Bondi's performance gets even worse. She tries to go full law and order by talking about drugs, and the result is so incoherent, it borders on a Saturday Night Live skit. Listen to this. Listen to her talking about Molly.
- [13:56]
Pam Bondi
People need to know. Parents need to know. Kids need to know. This fentanyl, this bus, these 3 million pills were oxycodone. They put this in Xanax, they put this in Aderall, they put this in Molly, the, the date drug or the party drug, something called Molly. They put it in cocaine and they put it in marijuana. And it is to get you so highly addicted that you can't get off it.
- [14:25]
David Pakman
You know, say, say what you will about Matt Gaetz and there's plenty to say, if he had survived his short lived nomination to be Attorney general, we at least would have an attorney General who knows exactly what Molly is. Right. He practically lived in a spring break TikTok. But Pam Bondi doesn't know what's going on other than she knows I must be loyal to Trump. If Trump takes the drugs are bad. Okay, approach. Then Pam Bondi takes it. If Trump says we're going to Alcatraz, she says, who do we send first? And it is as absurd as it has ever been. Is there anything that could happen in this administration that would change the most valuable currency from loyalty to something else? Well, later on in the show you're going to see a competition for who can be most loyal to Trump and it's very ugly. Remember that my book the Echo Machine is available for sale everywhere. Books are sold. An instant New York Times bestseller. Remember to review the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and Goodreads if you have it. Let's take a very quick break and be right back. It can be really challenging to find the right learning opportunities for your kids, whether they need extra support or enrichment beyond the classroom or just something fun and engaging. To get more interested, you can check Out Out School, our sponsor. Out School is an online learning platform for kids aged 3 to 18 with small group live classes and one on one tutoring on demand courses on thousands of topics. I'm a parent and as someone who's always looking for more opportunities for my daughter to learn in new and valuable ways, I think what outschool is doing is fantastic. Something any child could benefit from. Whether your kid likes science, art, coding, music, niche interests like mythology or chess, out school has it all. And what sets Out School apart is really the flexibility and personalization. Kids get to learn on their own terms with passionate expert educators, many of whom hold advanced degrees in what they're teaching. Over a million learners have taken out school courses and parents online rave about the experience. If you want to try out school, get up to $20 off your child's first class or tutoring session for a limited time. When you go to outschool.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN, that's outschool.com/pacman use code PACMAN for up to $20 off. The info is in the podcast notes. You know, on this program we have talked about two really important changes happening in the United States. One is that more people than ever have stepped away from organized religion and two, we've talked about how Christian nationalism seeks to assert its dominance in so many of our institutions, connecting church and state under the law, in schools, in governments, etc. I fully respect people's right and freedom to believe anything they want privately. But we need to draw a line and say that can't be pushed onto others through government and through civil legislation and lawmaking and all of these processes. That is exactly what our sponsor, the Freedom From Religion foundation, is fighting to do. Keep church and state separate, just like our founders intended. So no matter whether you're secular and you've always been, or you left religion or you're religious, but you understand that the founders said keeps church and state separate, the FFRF has your back and I invite you to join the David Pakman show in helping the FFRF go to FFRF US Freedom or text David to 5115-11 and become a member today. That's ffrf.us/freedom or text David to 5115-110-11 to join the Freedom from Religion Foundation. The info is in the podcast notes text. Fees may apply. The David Pakman show is an audience supported program, meaning that when folks like you sign up for memberships on my website, that is our primary funding source. We do an extra show every day for our members and I invite you to check it out@join pacman.com we also have commercial free audio and video streams of the show every day for our members and the show is available hours before we publish it to everybody else. Read up about it and consider signing up as join pacman.com Donald Trump welcomed the new Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney to the Oval Office and it did not go well for Donald Trump. At one point, Trump's brain seemed to reboot when the Canadian Prime Minister just said no right to his face about this silly concept about Canada as the 51st state and so many other things. This is really fascinating to watch. And even though Trump exudes confidence, the competence gap is so clear. When you listen to Mark Carney speak and the look on Trump's face, he knows that he's being told no. And he doesn't like it. Take a listen to this.
- [20:16]
Mark Carney
They get along very well. They like each other a lot.
- [20:20]
Donald Trump
Well, if I may, as you know from real estate, there are some places that are never for sale.
- [20:27]
Mark Carney
That's true.
- [20:27]
Donald Trump
We're sitting in one right now. You know, Buckingham palace that you visited as well. And having met with the owners of Canada over the course of the campaign last several months, it's not for sale, won't be for sale ever. But the opportunity is in the partnership and what we can build together. And we have done that in the past. And part of that, as the President just said, is with respect to our own security. And my government is committed for a step change in our.
- [20:58]
David Pakman
And as you can see, Trump slouched over as he is told by Mark Carney, you're not going to bully me. You're not going to do it. And Trump at this point is just trying to save face. He looks and sounds like such a small little man and truly an embarrassment. Now, in another Kafka esque moment, Donald Trump brags that he was probably the greatest thing that happened to Mark Carney, missing the point that the reason Canadians rejected a Trump Mini Pierre Pollyv was that they realized, wait a second, Trump has reminded us the last thing we want is anything like Trump in Canada. Totally missing for Trump. Listen to this.
- [21:46]
Mark Carney
Thank you very much, everybody. It's a great honor to have Prime Minister Mark Carney with us. As you know, just a few days ago, he won a very big election in Canada. And I think I was probably the greatest thing that happened to him. But I can't take full credit. They were, his party was losing by a lot and he ended up winning. So I really want to congratulate it.
- [22:08]
David Pakman
Was one of, you know, Trump says it almost like, thanks to my endorsement, Mark Carney won. But it really should be one of Trump's greatest shames that he helped Mark Carney win because he helped Mark Carney win by demonstrating that they don't want anything like Trump in Canada. They said, wait a second, let's stick with the Liberal Party. And so Trump, as always, has to frame himself as powerful and take credit for everything. But. But because Trump is so disliked in Canada, you could argue Mark Carney was able to become prime minister. Now watch. If you're watching today, watch Mark Carney's face during this one. It almost looks like he has to reboot his brain after Trump goes, we don't do a lot of business with Canada. We just. And of course, yes, we do. And Mark Carney's face looks like he had to control alt delete there campaign.
- [23:03]
Donald Trump
Prime Minister Carney talked about the American material. How do you react if Canada decided not to shop in the American store as much as before, decided to partner with other countries?
- [23:15]
Mark Carney
Well, we don't do much business with Canada from our standpoint. They do a lot of business with us.
- [23:22]
David Pakman
And Carney goes, we've got to replay that. Carney is like, what is this guy talking about?
- [23:27]
Mark Carney
Point. They do a lot of business with us. We're at like 4%. And usually those things don't last very long. You know, we have great things, great product. The kind of product we sell, nobody else can sell, including military. Look, we make the best military equipment in the world, and Canada buys our military equipment, which we appreciate, but we make the best military equipment in the world by far. The missiles, the submarines, everything. Everything we have is really top notch. I rebuilt our military during our last term.
- [23:58]
David Pakman
The look on Carney's face during this confused moment is really something else. And then in another moment that defies math, economics, and logic, Trump again expresses his confusion on trade, saying, by not trading, we are saving money. Of course, this is not how trade works.
- [24:18]
Mark Carney
And by not trading, we're losing nothing. So we're saving $1 trillion. It's a lot. But they want to negotiate and they want to have a meeting, and we'll, We'll. We'll be meeting with them at the right time.
- [24:29]
David Pakman
It is once again stunning that Trump sees trade as, we were just sending China a trillion dollars. We just sent them a trillion dollars. That we're just flushing a trillion dollars down the toilet. What Trump seems not to understand, which is terrifying because he's the president, is that we would send China a trillion dollars and China would send us a trillion dollars worth of stuff at cheaper prices than we could manufacture it here in the United States. Now, I completely respect people who say, David, I don't care about lower prices. I want American made. I want the national security of a domestic supply chain. I want to employ domestic workers and pay them more than what China. Chinese workers get paid. Great. Everything will cost more. We can choose to do that. That's. That's a totally respectable position. But this idea that trade means we would just send money to China. No, we send money to China and get an equivalent value in products back. But Trump doesn't get it. At another point, Trump says USMC is great for all countries. This is Trump's trade deal, which was basically just NAFTA with a new name And Carney says right to his face, oh, some of these things are going to have to change. And Trump doesn't like it.
- [25:48]
Mark Carney
USMCA is great for all countries. It's good for all countries. We do have a negotiation coming up over the next year or so to adjust it or terminate it.
- [25:57]
Donald Trump
Mr. President, I'll just say. I'll say a word on USMCA, if I may, Mr. President. It is a basis for a broader negotiation. Some things about it are going to have to change. And part of the way you've conducted these tariffs have taken advantage of existing aspects of usmca.
- [26:16]
David Pakman
And Trump just sits there and goes, well, I'm not too sure about that. All right. Finally, a reporter asks Trump, what is the primary concession you want from Canada? And Trump says, I want them to be my friend. And then of course, that is not really a concession.
- [26:34]
Mark Carney
Yeah, please.
- [26:35]
David Pakman
What's the top concession you want out of Canada?
- [26:37]
Mark Carney
The top concession you want out of concession?
- [26:40]
David Pakman
Yes.
- [26:40]
Mark Carney
Friendship.
- [26:42]
Pam Bondi
That's not a concession.
- [26:43]
Mark Carney
Oh, just. I just. We're going to be friends with Canada.
- [26:50]
David Pakman
Oh, my goodness. Just. It's like he's a pre programmed character in a video game or something like that. But listen, good for Mark Carney. And hilariously, Mark Carney weighed in on what was going through his head during this meeting. And it's very funny. I want to talk about that next. So Mark Carney had this Oval Office meeting with Donald Trump and it was really weird. At one point, Carney's brain sort of has to reboot when Trump says really strange things about trade that just don't comport to the facts. So afterwards, Carney, seemingly standing on a rooftop with a lectern, speaks to reporters. And it was a very funny exchange where Carney says, I'm glad you couldn't tell what was going through my mind during that meeting. And he really lays out in extremely clear terms that he is not buying Trump's BS question.
- [27:47]
Pam Bondi
Good afternoon, Prime Minister. Tonda McCharles, Toronto Star. And I was watching your face through the media in the Oval Office, and I wondered what was going through your mind when the President talked about rebracing the artificial border and how he criticized your predecessor and Madam Freeland.
- [28:03]
David Pakman
Well, I was thinking, how did this guy get to be so orange? No, no, we'll let the Prime Minister answer.
- [28:12]
Donald Trump
Well, thank you for, I guess, for your question. I'm glad that you couldn't tell what was going through my mind as that was going through. Look, the. With respect to the first point the President has made known his wish about that issue for some time. I've been careful always to distinguish between wish and reality. I was clear there in the Oval Office, as I've been clear throughout on behalf of Canadians, that this is never going to happen. Canada is not for sale. It never will be for sale. Some things, as I said in the room, some things are never for sale. And he agreed with that. So I distinguish between the two. And then with respect to the importance of re establishing a constructive relationship for negotiations of a partnership, of an economic and security partnership, which is what we were here for. I look forward, not back, and I think we established a good basis today.
- [29:16]
David Pakman
I really hope that we can move on from this whole Canada 51st state thing, which is of course so absurd in so many ways. And listen, if you look at the betting markets like Kalshee, on the question of will the US take control of any part of Canada? 11% believe that yes, the United States is going to take control of a part of Canada. That means 89% believe that no, the US is not going to take control of any part of Canada. I regularly use Kalshee to check odds for future events in politics. It's crazy that this is even a question. So there's like two interpretations here. On the one hand, despite all of the discussion about the US Taking any of Canada or Canada becoming a state or any of it, only 11% believe that that's actually going to happen. It's good that the number is that low. On the other hand, how is it that more than 1 out of 10 people believe that, yes, the US is going to take control of a part of Canada? I don't know if I should be surprised that this number is so low or that this number is so high. But my hope is, and I admit that it was personally very enjoyable to see Trump slouched over, as Mark Carney said, it's just not going to happen. It's not for sale. Canadians don't want it. Done deal. Seeing Trump uncomfortably slouched over defeated, that was great. But can we please, please move beyond this? I do want to issue one correction. Yesterday, when we were talking about the whole Mars thing with Elon Musk, I listed some books that talk about why Mars is not viable as a replacement for Earth. I wrongly said I was going from memory. I wrongly said that Robert Zubrin's book was about Mars bad. But he has a book which is actually in favor for different reasons than the one. I just made a mistake, okay? I mischaracterized the position of Robert Zubrin with regard to Mars. So I do want to mention that and say I stand corrected. All right, let's take a quick break. Make sure you're getting my newsletter. David pakman.substack.com. you can sign up for free. Quick break. Right back after this. You know, I'll often talk to my friends about what do we really think is private on our computers and on our phones. And many people believe that their emails are genuinely private private. And it turns out that a lot of the email services are looking at your emails and can look at your emails even after you have deleted them. Which is why I recommend our sponsor, Start Mail, a trusted name in secure email for more than a decade. Start Mail is based in the Netherlands. Netherlands is known for very strong data protection laws. Your emails won't be scanned, your emails won't be tracked. Start Mail will block those invasive tracking pixels so you won't be monitored by companies and by hackers. And when you delete an email in Start Mail, it is gone for good. Your data stays private. They are all in on this. With a ton of features including aliases to keep you anonymous, strong encryption with your emails, it is super easy to move to Start Mail. It's a few clicks. Migrate your emails, migrate your contacts, you really can't go wrong. Try Start Mail for yourself completely free for seven days at start mail.com/pacman, which will also give you 50% off your first year. That's star t mail.com/pacman for a seven day free trial and 50% off your first year. The link is in the podcast notes. When it was time for a new mattress, I didn't want to gamble on something generic. I had heard about Helix. I like that they customize the mattress based on how you sleep. I'm mostly a stomach sleeper, so I took the quiz and ended up with a model that felt tailored to me. I've had it for years. What I notice is I don't wake up with back stiffness. I don't wake up with shoulder pain. I don't wake up. Toss and turn, looking for a comfortable position. It's just better than my old mattress. It's more supportive, but it's still comfortable. Another thing I like about Helix is that there's no one size fits all approach. It's really tailored to you in terms of firmness as well. It's made a difference for me and I'm thrilled to be partnering with them. And right now Helix is running a huge sale, 27% off site wide Plus a free bedding bundle. That's a sheet set and a mattress protector with any luxe or elite mattress order. Go to helix, sleep.com/pacman to check it out. The link is in the description. All right, today we're going to be talking with another interesting candidate for office. Tim Myers is joining me and is a former member of One Republic, Grammy nominated, multi platinum producer and songwriter, founder of Palladium Records, and is now running as a Democrat for the California 41st congressional seat. Tim, really good to have you on. I appreciate it.
- [34:42]
Tim Myers
Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
- [34:45]
David Pakman
So, I mean, listen, let's start maybe with the most obvious question. Your background is in music and production. What do you say to those who say, is Tim qualified to serve in Congress? Obviously, other than pointing to Donald Trump as president. So what does it mean to be qualified? But, but, but thinking about it more seriously, I mean, what, what is it that made you do this?
- [35:06]
Tim Myers
Absolutely. I mean, you know, I was born and raised in Corona, California. My dad's actually, he was a pastor for a really, really long time. He was a pastor at this church called Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside. And I watched my dad serve the people. I watched him hold hands with people that were passing away in hospital beds. I watched, went and would go often and feed the homeless with him. And I just saw his life of service and dedication to people. And, you know, we've seen just lately, politics is just getting more and more corrupt. It's all about money. So Ken Calvert, he's. When I was eight years old, he went into office. 32 years later, he's still there and he's $20 million richer. So corrupt. At one point in history, you know, Congress was about serving the people, and it was an act of service. And we've completely lost that. So, you know, I've, So from there, you know, from being a kid, I went on to start One Republic and founded my record label, Palladium. And I mainly founded it because songwriters and producers were getting screwed over by major labels and major companies. And I helped artists and songwriters be able to purchase homes and make a living doing music. It was the coolest thing ever. And now, you know, I've had a successful business. Now the second stage of my life is all about service. I'm wanting to serve people and, and help people out. So, you know, this isn't about money or fame for me. I've already, you know, had a lot of success. This is about serving people and helping out others.
- [36:58]
David Pakman
It seems there's a big anti incumbent sentiment right now and that's potentially something that, that is to your advantage. At the same time, I'm curious your thoughts as to whether anti incumbent sentiment applies across the board. Because, for example, you look at someone like a Bernie Sanders, who at this point is really an incumbent incumbent. He's, he's been around a while at this point in time. Yeah, but the anti incumbent move is not coming for Bernie. So it's got to be more than just anti incumbent, right?
- [37:31]
Tim Myers
Absolutely, 100%. I mean, you know, we're seeing that on the ground level. This last weekend I was out with the protesters. I probably shook hands with over 400 different protesters out in Palm Springs. People are fired up. But it's not an anti establishment sentiment per se. It's more anti establishment for the policies that the Republicans are currently doing. I mean, look, Ken Calvert is one of the most corrupt politicians in my opinion ever. He voted against the infrastructure bill, but then profited off it. This guy's a joke. And most people know that. They, they know all the facts. They know that he voted against same sex marriage, he's done a bunch of other awful things and everyone wants him to go. So I don't think, you know, we've seen with Bernie, you know, this isn't about anti establishment per se. It's about the awful policies that are happening right now.
- [38:32]
David Pakman
One of the things that I think is interesting about you coming from the music industry is that the music industry often takes advantage of performers. And I recently read a not yet published book by Cory Doctorow about the monopolization that exists within performing arts and the music industry. This happens with streaming, this happens with rights. This sometimes even includes touring. Do you see a parallel with broader American society where we see a sort of hoarding of wealth at the top while the poor struggle? That's like analogous to what we see in the music industry, 100%.
- [39:08]
Tim Myers
And that's one of the main reasons why I'm jumping in. You know, I've seen with artists, they've continually been screwed over by these major labels. We've seen with Spotify, especially YouTube. YouTube just screws over songwriters and producers. They take the majority of the wealth, all the streams, and they give peanuts to the songwriters and the people who are creating the content. You know, and that's the main reason why I started my label. It's mainly focused on tv, film and commercials. And so artists would have, you know, full ownership. They'd be able to get that percentage instead of the labels taking it all and doing these 360 deals where they're taking the tour support, they're taking the streaming. And so artists were thriving. We're seeing that right now. Trump, Elon, these billionaires, they're pouring money into Trump and to the White House here, and they're profiting and the people aren't, you know, California, one third of the population here is in or near poverty. They're, you know, you know, and poverty is. Is stated as $39,900 a year. You know, and that's two adults and two kids. I mean, it's insane. It's literally insane. And yet we're the fifth largest economy in the world with, you know, I.
- [40:37]
David Pakman
Think even fourth largest now just has a recent.
- [40:39]
Tim Myers
Yeah, we're fourth. That's right.
- [40:40]
David Pakman
Yeah.
- [40:41]
Tim Myers
Yeah, we surpassed Japan. Right.
- [40:43]
David Pakman
Tim, what do you say to those who would say, okay, I mean, listen, Tim has some interesting ideas, and I agree with him, but the reason he's being treated as a serious contender is because of his fame and success in music to begin with. What would you say to someone who looks at your candidacy and says, that's really what you have going? The ideas are good, but a lot of people have the ideas.
- [41:06]
Tim Myers
Right, right. You know, I, you know, I really pride myself on being working class. You know, I didn't grow up with the silver spoon. You know, I was, at one point, I was a barista. I was a janitor at one point. And I know what it's like to work your ass off. When I, When I came, you know, up to LA to do music, I literally had 50 bucks and was living on, like $500, 1,000 bucks a month, you know, and I know what it's like to sleep on futons and to, you know, work your butt off to make it. And, you know, a lot of people are struggling right now, and I think they want people that represent them in office. And so I pride myself on that. I'm. I'm a working class person. I'm a part of the union. I'm part of a couple unions. I'm a SAG member. So, you know, I'm pro union. And so, you know, I, I'm. I'm proud to be representing the people and not special interests like Calvert.
- [42:09]
David Pakman
My, My understanding is you don't currently live in the district. Correct me if I'm wrong. Do you think that that's potentially a liability in the campaign and would you move to the district if you won or have you thought about that?
- [42:21]
Tim Myers
Absolutely. Yeah. I definitely plan on moving out to the District. But no, I don't currently live there. I, you know, the main reason why is I didn't. My kids are in LA schools and I didn't want to rip them out. We wanted to be more thoughtful with that and with the kids. But, you know, I was born and raised. I've spent my entire life in Corona. And, you know, it's. It's interesting. Like, some politicians, they jump in and they've literally lived in the district for a year and they're like, I live here. But I actually, I went to elementary school and high school in the district. I, you know, know it. I know the people. I think that's way more valuable than someone just kind of hopping over to Palm Springs and being like, I live here now. So, so. But, you know, I want to be real and authentic with the voters. And so I don't want to play the political game where I'm, you know, kind of sidestepping the question and just being real and authentic with people.
- [43:21]
David Pakman
Now, let's talk a little bit about policy. I often ask this of anyone running for national elected office, and sometimes they've thought about it, sometimes they haven't. What do you think the top federal tax rate should be on income?
- [43:34]
Tim Myers
You know, I, we're going to get a lot more specific with some of those things on. Tim Myers for Congress.com. you know, but all I can say is, you know, in California right now, you know, we pay a lot in taxes and it's, and it's a bummer because right now, you know, we don't get that money back. Basically, California is consistently in the red. We pay billions and billions of dollars in taxes, and then that money doesn't go to us. It goes to other states like Virginia and, and Vermont and other states, Maryland.
- [44:10]
David Pakman
So you're talking about the federal taxes paid by California residents right now, not California state tax.
- [44:15]
Tim Myers
Yes. Yes.
- [44:16]
David Pakman
Okay.
- [44:16]
Tim Myers
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I would love to see us get, you know, at least break even. You know, if you're out here in California, our roads are messed up and there's a lot of problems going on, you know, and I would love to see us at least break even, you know, and the money not go to other states.
- [44:37]
David Pakman
But do you think federal tax rates for the rich need to go up or you'd like to not raise them, but think about a different way of managing the budget?
- [44:47]
Tim Myers
I'm, you know, I'm just going to be honest with you. I think billionaires make way too much in this country right now. You know, they need to be taxed higher. There's no question about it. And you know, the poor and the working class, you know, we're just struggling. We're struggling. And so, yeah, absolutely, like billionaires need to be taxed a lot more.
- [45:12]
David Pakman
Any idea? I want to move on from taxes in a moment, but one of the real difficulties with taxing billionaires is that they don't earn much from wages. They earn money in other ways. And so you can raise the income tax up to whatever you want, but it's not going to capture that. Are you in favor of something like a wealth tax?
- [45:34]
Tim Myers
You know, I, you know, I, I definitely want to spelled out a little bit more with the, with the team on timmyersforcongress.com but, you know, I, you know, where I stand on it is I think we need to have a huge, huge overall with billionaires and we need to get extremely creative. I'm, I'm on the same page that it's insane what's going on right now. And as far as the wealth inequality in this country, it's, it's ridiculous. And as a candidate, I'm completely for reforming the way it's structured right now.
- [46:11]
David Pakman
All right, so still developing the details of that, of that aspect. It sounds like I want to talk about housing a little bit nationwide, but acutely so in California. And I recently had the governor of California on, and we talked about this to some degree. Housing is extremely expensive as compared to. When you look at what is a, you know, we might say let's put a family of three or four in a two bedroom. So either there's one kid with their own room or two kids share a room. We're not talking extravagant here. And you just look at the median salaries for two people and what the cost is for a two bedroom in that same community relative to the salaries. It's fallen completely out of whack.
- [46:54]
Tim Myers
Yeah.
- [46:55]
David Pakman
10 or 12 different things that can be done with regard to housing prices. What's your thought on dealing with housing affordability?
- [47:03]
Tim Myers
I mean, it's something that we need to have an overhaul with. I mean, I've seen millennials, I've had so many friends of mine leave the state. They're going to Nashville, they're going to Austin. It's absolutely horrific. And, you know, we need to have a major overhaul with, with housing. And it's a nuanced thing. You know, it's, it's, it's something that is, that needs to radically change here in California.
- [47:31]
David Pakman
But for example, are you in favor of changing zoning so that you can build more densely, which the NIMBYs tend to be against? Or are you more of the approach of let's subsidize, which many economists say actually is economically counterproductive? Or what's your sort of framework for looking at housing?
- [47:52]
Tim Myers
You know, I think, you know, there's a few different things. So one of the things that's really interesting to me is, you know, like, for example, the. The land, the state land here in California. There's a lot of opportunity where, you know, there's various different land that's kind of going unused or even buildings here in California that could be transformed into affordable housing. So I think we need to get really, really creative and with what we currently have and, and transform some of these buildings and a lot of this land that we're sitting on that's just prime real estate and create some affordable housing for folks.
- [48:35]
David Pakman
All right, we've been speaking with Tim Myers, who is running against Ken Calvert, a long, long, long time incumbent, that's for sure. Tim is running as a Democrat in the 41st district of California. We'll link to his campaign website. Tim, really appreciate you being on and would love to have you back as you develop out some of these policies.
- [48:58]
Tim Myers
Thank you. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you.
- [49:00]
David Pakman
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- [50:40]
Mark Carney
Go ahead. Do you.
- [50:44]
Tim Myers
Do you support Israel's plan to conquer Gaza if Hamas doesn't agree to a.
- [50:49]
Mark Carney
Deal during your visit to the Middle East? These are very strange questions. I never like when they read them off a machine. Who's sending that question to you? And let's not talk about that now.
- [51:02]
David Pakman
The question was read off of a machine.
- [51:04]
Mark Carney
We're doing a class action lawsuit against all machines.
- [51:08]
David Pakman
Right. It's a little. I don't even know what to make of this. I guess it's the. I don't know if it's that Trump doesn't like machines like phones, or maybe he doesn't like the concept of reading a question. I don't know. But he didn't like the fact that the question came off of a machine. Which leads us to the next moment of cognitive confusion. This entire thing is about the World cup. And Trump is surprised to hear that Russia is banned from the World cup after invading Ukraine. This is a sort of quaint little moment. Does Trump know anything?
- [51:49]
Mark Carney
It's going to be very strong. Thank you. Yes.
- [51:54]
Tim Myers
Russia is banned from playing.
- [51:56]
David Pakman
Playing the next World Cup.
- [51:57]
Tim Myers
What's your position on this?
- [51:59]
Mark Carney
Say it again.
- [52:00]
Tim Myers
Russia has been banned from playing the next World Cup.
- [52:03]
Scott Bessant
What's your position?
- [52:04]
Mark Carney
I didn't know that. Is that right? Yeah, that is right.
- [52:08]
Donald Trump
They are banned for the time being.
- [52:09]
David Pakman
Yeah.
- [52:09]
Mark Carney
Okay.
- [52:10]
David Pakman
From playing. But we hope that.
- [52:12]
Mark Carney
He's the boss. I'm not the boss on that. I have not. We hope that something happens and peace will happen and then we can be readmitted. So that's what we hope. That could be a good incentive. Right. We want to get them to stop. We want them to stop. We want the 5,000 young people a week are being killed. It's not even believable. It's going to be very.
- [52:35]
David Pakman
Yeah. I mean, it's not exactly breaking news, but yes, Russia was banned for invading Ukraine. Trump seems to be learning about it on air like a guy who kind of wandered into the wrong trivia night. Real. That's remarkable. I didn't know that. And then it gets even worse because Donald Trump pivots to a word salad about the G8, Russia, Obama, Trudeau, and somehow millions of dead people. See if you can unravel this going on right now.
- [53:02]
Mark Carney
I thought it was a very bad decision. It was headed by Trudeau, by The way and Obama, they were the ones that really fought hard to get Russia out. I think if Russia were in, you wouldn't be. They threw him out. And because of that, maybe millions of people are dying. Millions. You know, millions. The numbers are far greater than you think. But millions of people are dying. If he was sitting around a table with other people, seven people hammering him and saying, let's not do this, you would. I think you wouldn't probably have had the. The problems that you've had.
- [53:38]
David Pakman
I think Trump is suggesting that Russia's expulsion from the G8 as a result of Trudeau and Obama led to millions of deaths. Now, one of the problems is that Russia was kicked out of the G8 in 2014. Trudeau became Canadian prime minister in 2015. So, again, as with Trump, you often need to believe that humans have achieved time travel in order to confirm some of his hypotheses. And second, of course, suggesting that expelling Russia from a diplomatic summit caused millions of deaths is strange. I don't know exactly how you justify that. This is, of course, not political messaging. This is a man whose brain is held together by duct tape and some of the stuffing from Mike Lyndell's pillows. Can't name basic geopolitical facts, refers to smartphones as machines, like a time traveler from the 1800s, won't answer a direct question, and links unrelated topics with conflicting time horizons, with imaginary body counts. This is not a guy who is fit to serve. And it's becoming increasingly clear a Trump official was just asked the simplest economics question of all time. Who pays the tariffs? And somehow, he couldn't or wouldn't answer it. Watch a grown man fold like a lawn chair rather than admit the obvious truth. You pay the tariffs and I pay the tariffs, and companies that depend on imported goods pay the tariffs. This is Congressman Mark Pocan, a Democrat, questioning Donald Trump's Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessant. And Bessant refuses to say Americans pay the tariffs. Tariffs have been really Trump's only policy, and he loves to talk about slapping tariffs on foreign goods, especially from China, as if he's punishing people overseas. But the dirty little secret that he never mentions is that tariffs are taxes that you pay and that I pay. And even Trump's own Treasury secretary won't say it out loud. So check this out. It. It does get a little painful to listen to, and you'll see a bent start glitching badly.
- [55:53]
Scott Bessant
So my concern is on the tariffs. Who pays tariffs? Mr. Secretary? No, no, no.
- [56:03]
David Pakman
Ask the.
- [56:04]
Scott Bessant
Answer the questions. I Asked, Please, I only have five minutes. Who pays.
- [56:06]
David Pakman
His mic was off. So that's why you couldn't hear him in the media.
- [56:09]
Donald Trump
Sorry.
- [56:10]
Scott Bessant
Well, who pays tariffs? Sorry, Mr. Secretary, please excuse me. The question is very simply, who pays tariffs? Mr. Chairman, I'd like him to answer that question. Well, let's answer other questions.
- [56:19]
Donald Trump
Well, Congressman, if the Congressman, if the exporters, they dislike tariffs so much, why wouldn't they? If I think what you're trying to get me to.
- [56:34]
Scott Bessant
Did you remember the question? I'm not sure you did. Who pays tariffs that they.
- [56:39]
Donald Trump
It's a very complicated question.
- [56:41]
Scott Bessant
Reclaiming my time. People pay tariffs, right? I'm Reclaiming my time, Mr. Secretary. Reclaiming my time, Mr. Secretary. Reclaiming my time. You clearly aren't going to answer it. I'm not going to waste my time having you go, Mr. Secretary. Reclaimed. Mr. Chairman, I asked. Reclaiming my time.
- [56:59]
Donald Trump
Tariffs.
- [57:00]
Scott Bessant
Mr. Mr. Chairman.
- [57:01]
David Pakman
This is not a trick question, mind you. Not at all.
- [57:06]
Scott Bessant
And I asked to reclaim my time, did I not? No, I said reclaiming my time because he's clearly not answering it. So, yeah. So as a small business owner, and unfortunately I like that time back since you failed to recognize me for 30 seconds. So I just recently from one of my suppliers got the tariff surcharge on things. In addition to the tariff surcharge, guess what else got raised? American made walnut plaques. That has nothing to do with tariffs. But companies take advantage and do that. So right now we are getting screwed right and left because of the indiscriminate use of tariffs. That's the reality for Main Street. And you go off to Beverly Hills for private investor conferences and talk about crazy Ivan theories. Answer that. What is the Crazy Ivan theory of tariffs that you mentioned at the summit?
- [57:56]
Donald Trump
Well, first of all, sir, I've had meetings with more than 50 small lenders, so the. I want to clarify that. I would also say that in game theory, strategic uncertainty, of which you seem to like the name Crazy Ivan, what's your words?
- [58:14]
David Pakman
Understand what they're talking about? Strategic uncertainty. What Scott Besant is trying to defend is, is that Trump is so nuts that he's unpredictable. And this can be a game theory advantage. In game theory, which is a division, a sort of special subspecialty in economics, a very interesting one, by the way. There is an idea that the unpredictability of a player can encourage beneficial behavior from other players beneficial to that one who is unpredictable. In other words, if I am the unpredictable one, where others can't reasonably assess how I'm likely To behave. That benefits me because they now have to act in a world with, with uncertainty based on my behavior. The problem is that that lack of predictability in this environment is just bad for the American economy. And we've talked endlessly about the reasons why. Let's watch just a little bit more of this.
- [59:08]
Scott Bessant
Didn't you use Crazy Ivan?
- [59:09]
Donald Trump
Well, you've used it five times and that's the question. I am saying the strategic uncertainty is part of negotiations that should we say, oh, here's what we'll accept. Please take this.
- [59:22]
Scott Bessant
Okay, I've got your answer. Thank you. I'm going to reclaim my time again. So for a small business, we don't have that luxury, right? When the ports are empty in California and we can't get goods and people are stocking up for Christmas goods. Crazy Ivan is great for. Please don't take this offense, really rich people like you, but for people like me, it's not right. That's what makes small businesses fail. That's.
- [59:44]
David Pakman
So listen, it didn't really. We didn't get any really good answers and we never got a direct answer from Scott Besant about who pays the tariffs. But the answer is that the American consumer pays the tariffs. That that's it. The tariff gets added on top of the price and you pay it at the store. And alleged economic expert Scott Besant refuses to say it. Now, it's not because he doesn't know it. It's because he needs to remain loyal to Trump. And the entire Trump economic narrative depends on a lie. It's that we win a trade war when we impose tariffs, but in reality we're just taxing ourselves. It's a self imposed tax. It's economic self harm wrapped in a flag where you're going to suffer for the flag, but it's all going to be worth it. And remember from Trump's first term that he would regularly brag, china paid us a billion in tariffs. U.S. importers paid those tariffs. And those tariffs were then passed on to consumers. So you paid those tariffs and I paid those tariffs. Companies, businesses, the cost gets passed on. Individuals, prices went up, inflation ticked up, farmers got crushed. They had to bail out farmers. And Trump's promising more of that. So Scott Besant knows the answer. He just can't say the answer because it would blow up the whole premise of Trump's policy. That's why he melts down. That's why he stalls and stammers and spins fairytale nonsense about long term market adjustments. Now, I have no interest in hiding from you that in the long run, manufacturers might try to cut costs and find new supply chains or sell less stuff. In the very long term, that can happen. A lot of these supply chains are like a decade to really shift around. In the short to medium term, the part that matters to your wallet, you pay more. It's that simple. And Scott Besant can't say it. Just like who was just like Pam Bondi was saying, we might send some people to Alcatraz prisoners. No, you're not. She can't say the truth, which is we're never going to get it up and running in three years. It's ridiculous. Bessant also can't admit the truth because he wouldn't be performing correctly for the cult leader. And that's what this is all about. On the bonus show today, the Catholic community is reacting to the AI images that Trump posted of himself as the Pope. What do they think? Kristi Noem says that travelers without a real ID are still going to be allowed to fly. But how will that work? I'll explain it. And we will also look a little more deeply at oil prices. Why are oil prices falling? What does it mean for the economy? What does it mean for gas prices? And what's the context in which this is all happening? So all of those stories and more on today's bonus show, get instant access to the bonus show by signing up@join packman.com and remember that if you prefer to listen to the show, if you're at the gym, if you're in the car, if you're going for a walk, rather than the video clips on TikTok and YouTube and elsewhere, you can get our daily hour podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere that podcasts are available. Make sure you subscribe. Leave leave a rating for the podcast if you would be so kind. So I'll see you on the bonus show. We'll be back with a new show tomorrow.