6/10/25: Marines deployed, de facto martial law, US no longer stable

Summary

The David Pakman Show: June 10, 2025 – "Marines Deployed, De Facto Martial Law, US No Longer Stable"

Hosted by David Pakman, this episode delves into the escalating political and social turmoil in the United States, focusing on the deployment of military forces in Los Angeles, the ensuing legal battles, and the broader implications for American democracy.

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1. Introduction: A Nation in Crisis

David Pakman opens the show with a sarcastic remark, highlighting the severe instability plaguing the United States. He sets the tone for a grim discussion about unprecedented governmental actions and societal unrest.

[00:07] David Pakman: "It's one of the darkest people periods certainly that I can remember ever covering what is taking place in the United States."

2. Deployment of Marines and National Guard in Los Angeles

Pakman discusses the alarming decision by the Trump administration to deploy approximately 700 active-duty Marines from Camp Pendleton to Los Angeles. This move, aimed at restoring order amid widespread protests, bypasses the standard protocol of state authorization.

[00:07] David Pakman: "The Trump administration is now escalated by deploying the Marines in Los Angeles, California."

He criticizes the justification provided by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, who stated that local police efforts were insufficient to manage the protests.

[02:15] Pete Hegseth (paraphrased): "Due to increased threats to federal law enforcement officers and Federal Buildings, approximately 700 active duty US Marines... are being deployed to Los Angeles to restore order."

3. Governor Gavin Newsom's Response and Legal Action

Governor Gavin Newsom vehemently opposes the federal deployment, labeling it an unconstitutional overreach and an abuse of power. In response, California has filed a lawsuit against President Trump, challenging the legality of deploying military forces without state consent.

[06:45] David Pakman: "Governor Gavin Newsom is saying these Marines should not be used as political pawns, that this is a blatant abuse of power. He is suing."

4. Incident Involving CNN Reporter Jason Carroll

A pivotal moment in the episode is the live detention of CNN correspondent Jason Carroll by federal forces during the protests. Pakman emphasizes the gravity of the situation, where a journalist is stripped of their ability to report freely.

[07:20] David Pakman: "This is the United States of America in June 2025."

The transcript captures Carroll's live interrogation and eventual removal:

[07:30] Jason Carroll: "Am I being arrested?"

[07:44] Gavin Newsom (presumably): "You can't come back."

[07:46] David Pakman: "If you come back, then you go."

Pakman interprets this as a fundamental attack on the First Amendment and press freedom, signaling a shift towards authoritarianism.

5. Authoritarian Overtones and Escalation of Power

Pakman draws parallels between the current events and historical instances of government overreach, notably the 1992 Rodney King riots where federal troops were deployed with state approval. He underscores the unprecedented nature of the 2025 deployment, which lacks state authorization and disregards local governance.

[19:25] David Pakman: "California has sued Donald Trump for deploying thousands of National Guard troops to Los Angeles without permission."

6. Trump's Remarks and the Threat to Arrest Governor Newsom

In a forcible assertion of power, President Trump publicly threatens the arrest of Governor Newsom, further blurring the lines between military authority and political vendetta.

[24:50] Donald Trump: "He's done a terrible job."

[25:18] David Pakman: "What crime did Newsom commit? He ran for governor."

Trump's rhetoric exemplifies a disregard for constitutional norms and democratic principles, leveraging military power for political gain.

7. Conflict Between Trump and Elon Musk

The show explores the deteriorating relationship between President Trump and tech mogul Elon Musk. Initially allies, their relationship has soured, with Trump now threatening Musk with severe consequences should he support Democratic initiatives.

[47:00] David Pakman: "Trump is openly warning Elon Musk if he gives money to Democrats, there will be, quote, very serious consequences."

This conflict signifies a broader disintegration within the MAGA coalition, highlighting the fragility of political alliances in the current climate.

8. Speculation on President Trump's Health

Pakman addresses rampant speculation about Trump's health, fueled by ambiguous photographs and lack of transparency from the White House. He critically examines public and media reactions to these speculations.

[61:30] David Pakman: "The appearance of pant legs kind of gathered around some kind of device fueled a lot of speculation."

Pakman stresses the importance of transparency, questioning whether the administration would ever disclose genuine health concerns.

9. Legal and Constitutional Implications

The episode delves into the legal battles arising from the deployment of federal troops, emphasizing the violation of the Tenth Amendment and the separation of powers. Pakman quotes the lawsuit filed by California officials:

[24:55] David Pakman: "This is an inflammatory escalation unsupported by conditions on the ground."

10. Conclusion: A Call to Action

Pakman concludes by framing the current situation as a "dry run for martial law," urging listeners to recognize and resist the encroachment on democratic institutions. He warns of the long-term consequences if such authoritarian measures go unchecked.

[58:10] David Pakman: "We have to fight every single one of these battles on all fronts."

He emphasizes the urgency of mobilizing against these authoritarian tendencies to preserve the foundational principles of the United States.

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Key Takeaways:

• Military Overreach: The deployment of active-duty Marines to Los Angeles without state consent marks a significant breach of constitutional norms.

• Erosion of Press Freedom: The detention of journalist Jason Carroll exemplifies the suppression of free press and dissent.

• Authoritarian Drift: President Trump's actions and rhetoric indicate a shift towards authoritarianism, undermining democratic institutions.

• Internal Political Conflicts: The falling out between Trump and Elon Musk reflects broader instability within political alliances.

• Health Transparency Issues: Speculations about Trump's health highlight concerns over governmental transparency and the manipulation of public perception.

This episode serves as a critical examination of the current state of American politics, warning of a potential slide into authoritarianism and calling for immediate action to safeguard democratic values.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Welcome to the show, everybody. I'm so glad that I can tell you everything's going fine. We just can do a fun show and talk about T ball and baking oatmeal, raising cookies, because things are just fine in this country. It's all good. Of course, I'm being facetious. It's one of the darkest people periods certainly that I can remember ever covering what is taking place in the United States. Much of it is centered right now sort of in an acute manner around Los Angeles, California. Threats of arrests, de facto martial law. And we will start with the deployment of Marines in addition to National Guard troops to Los Angeles. If you thought yesterday that things couldn't get any wilder, maybe, like the sheer absurdity had hit its peak, you missed a few hours during which it got even worse. We are now not just talking about National Guard. It's not just the ICE raids that look like snatch and grab operations. We now have escalated. The Trump administration is now escalated by deploying the Marines in Los Angeles, California. Roughly 700 active duty Marines. Some confusion from 29 Palms, possibly Camp Pendleton, although it's not clear who are supposedly seamlessly integrating with the National Guard that was already occupying parts of Los Angeles. The mission is to, quote, restore order, naturally, because apparently the local police, who, remember, have decades of dealing with large scale demonstrations in L A, are not up to the task. The this was announced by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, whose job is it on its last leg? We don't know, supposedly, maybe he put out a tweet where he said, quote, due to increased threats to federal law enforcement officers and Federal Buildings, approximately 700 active duty US Marines from Camp Pendleton are being deployed to Los Angeles to restore order. We have an obligation, he wrote, to defend federal law enforcement officers, even if Gavin Newsom will not. Now the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, is saying the reason for this deployment is to restore order. But Governor Gavin Newsom, in a completely predictable and necessary move, is saying this is against the law. And by the way, this Newsom suing, we'll talk about that later. Newsom is saying these Marines should not be used as political pawns, that this is a blatant abuse of power. He is suing. And what we are witnessing is a de facto martial law scenario unfolding on American streets where federal troops, now active duty Marines, are sent into a major American city, not because local authorities have requested it, in fact, over the objections of local authorities to manage protests. That, according to Governor, Governor Gavin Newsom weren't a problem until Trump got involved. So this has gone way beyond, oh, we're going to protect federal property. This is about power. And it's about a president extraordinarily unstable using the military as a political prop and by the way, treating these military members like shit, for lack of a better term. We have now seen pictures, oh, get them out. Because they're so revered and powerful and we respect and support the troops. And there's pictures of these deployed service members sleeping quite literally on top of each other, provided pathetic facilities and accommodations. And this is not about, you should be in a five star hotel. That's not, that's not what this is about. But just not even a modicum, an iota of respect, because it's not about respecting the troops, it's about using people as pawns, making the military a prop and a threat, and this kind of visible demonstration of force against American citizens exercising their First Amendment rights. So this is the line we have gone way beyond. Something might happen. Trump is building towards something. This is the thing. The President has deployed combat troops into a city against the will of its elected leaders in response to protests that he himself has helped to inflame by virtue of this mass deportation fiasco. Democracy? No. The rule of law, certainly not. This is the beginning of the authoritarian takeover. And if we don't recognize it for what it is and push back with everything we've got, we're in uncharted and I would argue, extraordinarily dangerous territory. So we will talk about California suing Trump over this. We are going to talk about the apologia and flaccid defenses that we're hearing for what's going on from every tool of the Trump administration. By tool, I mean the people, right, the undying loyalists that will say whatever Trump says is great and it's legal and it's powerful and it's miraculously patriotic. But where we go next, I, I can't believe that this is where we are. A CNN reporter detained and his security people arrested on live television during these flare ups we have now witnessed last night unfolding on our television screens from Los Angeles. It's not news, it's a chilling. Like a neon bright sign flashing about democracy. We saw national CNN correspondent Jason Carroll physically detained by L A, not by L, A, by the federal combination of L, A, Riot police, federal troops. We don't even know who the hell was involved in this thing. Putting his hands behind his back and his security team arrested while he was reporting what was taking place in our country. And it all happened live on tv. This is not some rogue incident in a far off land where, while covering a faraway war zone, through a combination of not understanding local laws and language barriers, a war reporter was detained. That's not what this is. This is Los Angeles, California. Let's take a look. And to preview this, you'll hear Jason Carroll asking, so I'm not being arrested? And he's told no. We're escorting you out, but if you come back, you will be arrested. This is the United States of America in June 2025.

[Jason Carroll]

CNN. It's time to escalate. Wait one second. John, hold on. I want to. Jason, what's going on? I hear you. Am I seeing Jason Carroll being.

[David Pakman]

You know.

[Jason Carroll]

What. What. What happened? Jason, I am being detained. I'm being detained, Laura. I'm not being arrested. Correct. Officers, did you hear what.

[David Pakman]

What they told you?

[Jason Carroll]

No, we're letting you.

[Gavin Newsom]

You can't come back.

[Jason Carroll]

Okay, as soon.

[David Pakman]

If you come back, then you go.

[Jason Carroll]

We're good right here. Okay?

[David Pakman]

Okay.

[Jason Carroll]

Please. Okay.

[David Pakman]

I.

[Jason Carroll]

Thank you. Thank you, officer.

[Gavin Newsom]

Take care. You, too.

[Jason Carroll]

Nice to be. Okay. Thank you. What happened? If you guys can still hear me, what happened was I was. Yes, I'm Chris. We're in New York Times. We got video of you guys. Oh, you did?

[David Pakman]

If you need it later.

[Jason Carroll]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[David Pakman]

I can hear you still.

[Jason Carroll]

Jason, what's happening? So we. Here's what happened, Laura. We. The officer. I was called over and the officer told me to put my hands behind my back. I said, am I being arrested? He said, you were being detained. I was walked out of the area. They took down my information. Oh, I'm losing his IFB right now. I can't hear you, Jason. John.

[David Pakman]

And that was it at that point in time. Now let's dissect the sort of raw, unbridled absurdity and terrifying, terrifying implications of this. Jason, Carol's out there in the thick of it, covering these volatile immigration enforcement protests in L. A. Protests that, if we're frank, they've teetered on the brink of chaos through a combination of opportunist looting and violence and the injection of the military by Donald Trump. Police want to restore order, clear areas, arrest people defying dispersal orders. And Carol, a journalist identified clearly as a member of the press. He's embedded in these situations all day. He knows the drill. Officers recognize the press. He's there with a camera team. He's there with security. But now he's detained. His hands are forced behind his back. He's escorted away from the scene and told if you come back, you're going to be arrested. Now, he made it clear they did not arrest me. He was forcibly removed from his ability to show you what it is that is happening there. And that's where the sort of like a blood runs cold, chilling moment. What we have here was not just Jason Carroll being pushed around. Two of his security staff were reportedly arrested in the incident. So this isn't like a polite request to move along. This is a state sanctioned detention and arrest of individuals whose job is facilitate people knowing what's going on. More than an eyebrow raiser, it is the next clampdown on speech. When journalists operating in plain sight as journalists on live TV are physically accosted or have their teams thrown into police vans when carrying covering a public event, it screams fundamental attack on the people's right to know. And it is straight out of which playbook is it? You know by now the authoritarian playbook. And the context is completely incendiary. Where Trump, from his corner of the Internet, I guess we would call it troth central, is boasting that were it not for him sending in the National Guard and the Marines, the city of Los Angeles would have been completely obliterated. All of this without the consent of California Governor Gavin Newsom. And Newsom, of course, went completely scorched earth, said, this is an illegal abuse of power, our military is turned into political pawns, and Newsom has sued and we'll talk about the lawsuit later. So what we have on one side is a president deploying what amounts to an occupation force in an American city against the wishes of municipal and state government. On the other hand, we've got Gavin Newsom saying this is tyranny, and Jason Carroll, a journalist, and ends up kind of in the crosshairs stuck between all of it. We also have reports of an Australian journalist struck by a rubber bullet, a British photographer needing surgery after being hit by a rubber or plastic bullet. So they are not just reporting the story. Violence is making them part of the story. And when police are confronted with the escalated situation, they go, well, the situation's really fluid. We can't really speak to exactly what's going on. We all saw it live. Journalist, constitutionally protected job. Most jobs are not constitutionally protected. Journalism is. He's identified himself, he is being physically prevented from doing his work. Colleagues arrested and he is threatened with arrest. So we are way beyond standard operating procedure here for a free press in a functional democracy. That's not what we see here. And the executive branch is dispatching military forces to American streets. Terrifying escalation doesn't even cut it. So we have to pay attention to this. We have to understand the line between maintaining order and crushing dissent and even simply reporting about what's going on. Law enforcement is one thing. Authoritarian control is a different thing. And if you're watching this closely, we are now seeing that the line is no longer blurred. The line has been obliterated. So this is urgent. This demands our outrage. As is often the case, I'm hearing from people who are saying, david, you're being hyperbolic about this. Others saying, david, you're not taking this seriously enough. I am taking this as seriously as I believe it needs to be treated. And this is as serious as anything I have ever seen or covered since I started the show 75 years ago. Okay, not quite 75 years, but it is as serious as anything I have ever covered. So after the break, we will talk about the lawsuit by Gavin Newsom against Trump. We will talk about Trump demanding that Newsom be arrested. And we will talk about the authoritarian meltdown that Donald Trump suffered. And maybe at the tail end of this, one of the most disgusting and regrettable characters of all of this, the vile, just vile, Stephen Miller acting like this is just awesome. That there's no legal concerns and we should be thanking Trump. Have you said thank you? That's, remember authority. Authoritarian leaders demand, they demand to be thanked. And that is what we are seeing here. If the clampdown happens, and we are seeing the clampdown every day, the only way I'll be able to get a hold of you to let you know what's going on is on our newsletter. That's the only platform where we own our data. So I invite you, I implore you to get on my newsletter@david pakman.substack.com or email in info@david pakman.com we'll put you on the newsletter and I hope you are subscribed on YouTube as well. Very quick break. Back right after this. Today's show is sponsored in part by Lucy Breakers. This is a tobacco free nicotine pouch with a capsule that can be broken to release extra flavor. Such a better option than smoke or vapor. Lucy breakers come in 4 or 8 milligrams strength. You can choose mint, apple, ice, mango, berry, citrus. 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With our sponsor Odoo, you can say goodbye to the disconnected software, the tedious manual data entry, streamline lead scoring and inventory management. It might be accounting and manufacturing or point of sale. Odoo is completely customizable. You pick the apps you need, you tailor them to the way you like it, experience how Odoos flexibility can give you back time, reduce errors and boost the bottom line. If you're ready to transform and simplify the way you run your business, you can get a 14 day free trial, no credit card needed, and your first app is free forever. Go to odoo.com/pacman now that's odoo.com pacman the link is in the podcast Notes Unlike many other shows, the David Pakman show is an independent, progressive media show that is almost entirely supported by our members. People like you who say, I'm going to pay seven bucks a month or only 350amonth with the coupon code and support the work that is happening here. If you value this show, I invite you to sign up@join pacman.com we understand a lot of people tightening the belt, talked about it yesterday, expecting a forthcoming economic calamity. I'm with you. If this would stretch your budget, don't do it. But if you have a few bucks in the disposable income category, consider supporting this or other shows. If this. Listen, if the. If seeing my book behind me upsets you or the pattern of my shirt is a trigger and there's a different show that you believe is better representing your values or fashion style, support that show. But the point here is we do have to make an effort to support the independent programs that we value. I would love it to be this show. We do an extra show every day called the Bonus Show. Alex Jones despises.

[Donald Trump]

Oh, the Bonus show, where you want to make money.

[David Pakman]

Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad, tragic and regrettable. I invite you to get the bonus show. Get the Daily show commercial free. All of the other great member perks by signing up@join pacman.com we are beyond the warning face. It is happening. California has sued Donald Trump for deploying thousands of National Guard troops to Los Angeles without permission, without an invitation, in what Governor Gavin Newsom is saying is an illegal and immoral and unconstitutional act of authoritarian aggression. Now, I think it's important to understand the context here. This is not unprecedented in name, but it is unprecedented in nature. Federal troops were deployed to Los Angeles in 1992 during the Rodney King riots. But the difference is that in 92, the governor requested it. It was a joint effort. And in 2025 this week, Donald Trump is sending troops over the objections of California officials. No request, no coordination, and certainly no legal authority. And that's why the California governor. I'm sorry. The California Attorney General, Rob Bonda, and Governor Gavin Newsom are suing. They say the 10th amendment has been violated and that the president's federal government's power has been exceeded. Quote from the lawsuit. This is an inflammatory escalation unsupported by conditions on the ground. We are asking the court to set aside the president's unlawful action. Now, meanwhile, we've explained the streets of Los Angeles look like a militarized zone. You've got troops with rifles, armored vehicles, journalists being injured, detained the security of journalists getting arrested, protesters rounded up in these aggressive ICE raids. After the aggressive ICE raids which sparked this in the first place, there was a labor leader arrested, demonstrations from unions across the country, and Trump loves it. As we talked about yesterday, Donald Trump putting out a troth message where he says arrest the people and face masks now. So this is really not law enforcement. This is punishment. This is about sowing fear and retribution. And I do not believe it is even an ounce of hyperbole to say this is one of the most dangerous moments in modern American politics that I have ever covered. The January 6, 2021 a Trump insurrection riots are on that list. Without a doubt, this is also on that list. I'd have to think about what else is on the list. Because a president is deploying troops on American soil against the state's will and threatening to jail political enemies, including Gavin Newsom himself, which we will get to in a moment, and using the military to crush civilian dissent. Now, as far as this lawsuit goes, is this lawsuit going to be the thing that turns the situation around? I doubt it. Is the lawsuit going to be the thing that unites even MAGA Americans against this deployment of troops? Probably an illegal deployment? I don't think that that is going to be the case. But we must fight every single one of these battles on all fronts. And, and much the way that we talked about this week with elected officials. And as some Democrats have been making clear, you need to be taking an all of the above approach. Raja Krishnamoorthy yesterday said, well, the lawsuits are one part of it. No, the lawsuits aren't going to turn around public sentiment. The lawsuits aren't going to unilaterally stop Trump. The lawsuits aren't going to make it so that MAGA never wins an election again. No, there's other work that we need to do to make that happen. But I say use all the tools we have. And Gavin Newsom and the Attorney General in California are doing that. And Gavin Newsom now, by the way, at personal risk as a result of it, Donald Trump says that he supports the deportations. Are Tom Homan arresting California Governor Gavin Newsom? It is really easy through a combination of getting desensitized to the insanity of Trump, hyper normalization from dealing with this crap for a decade and so many things going on all at the same time. It's easy for individual incidents to sort of get lost and, and for us not to feel the full emotional scope and legal scope and sociocultural importance of individual events. But the President of the United States Saying that he supports the arrest of a sitting governor is completely unhinged and deranged. Here is Trump looking like he is visibly struggling, saying, yeah, the arrest of Newsom is something he could get behind.

[Gavin Newsom]

Gavin Newsom is he's daring Tom Holman.

[Donald Trump]

To come and arrest him. Should he do it?

[Gavin Newsom]

I would do it if I were Tom. I think it's great. Gavin likes the publicity, but I think it would be a great thing. He's done a terrible job.

[Jason Carroll]

Look.

[Gavin Newsom]

I like Gavin Newsom. He's a nice guy, but he's grossly incompetent.

[David Pakman]

I think it's great. I like Gavin, nice guy. But I do think that the federal government should orchestrate the arrest of a sitting governor of the United States. Now, a really obvious question is, what's the crime? What's the crime? We'll get to that in a moment. Trump was asked during a sit down in the state dining room at the White House, aren't you worried that arresting Newsom could work to his advantage? And Trump said, no, it would be very bad for him.

[Gavin Newsom]

I guarantee you that. All right, please, Peter.

[David Pakman]

Mr. President, have you gotten an update.

[Donald Trump]

From your negotiating President Trump? So it seems like Gavin Newsom likes the attention that he's getting right now.

[Gavin Newsom]

I do.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, it seems like he does.

[Gavin Newsom]

He.

[Donald Trump]

If you look at recent history, somebody who is running for president, you who got arrested and had a mug shot, you could make the argument that politically that wound up helping you. Are you worried at all at this moment that talking about him getting arrested could be helpful to his political prospects? Because a lot of people think he wants to be sitting right where you are?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, in my case, it was a witch hunt and everybody knew it. And I was able to explain that during the process, otherwise I wouldn't be sitting here right now. And it was a total witch hunt. Disproven to be a witch hunt. And you see what's happened in his case, it really is very obvious. You look at what's happened between the fires, between. I could name 10 things right now. We talk about the trains, we talk.

[David Pakman]

About all of the costs in California, fires and trains. Arrest this man.

[Gavin Newsom]

You talk about all of the people that are flowing and destroying life for everyone else. So, no, I don't think it's going to help him. I think it's. I think it's actually very bad for him.

[Donald Trump]

And right around the time that we were walking in here, there it is.

[David Pakman]

Now, the critical question, if you are a defender of law and order and a supporter of due process, and, you know, all. All of this sort of stuff. All of this stuff, a really relevant and actionable question is, ok, trains and fires, but what crack crime did Gavin Newsom commit? Donald Trump was asked this. Let's listen to his answer.

[Gavin Newsom]

Just in time. It's still simmering a little bit, but not very much. Yeah, please.

[David Pakman]

Have you gotten.

[Jason Carroll]

What crime?

[Gavin Newsom]

Committed a crime has he committed? I think his primarily primary crime is running for governor.

[David Pakman]

Because the primary crime is running for governor. Well, throw handcuffs on him.

[Gavin Newsom]

He's done such a bad job. What he's done to that state is like what Biden did to this country, and that's pretty bad. It's the wrong philosophy. Thousands, hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, many of them prisoners, are taking up your health care, they're taking up your space in schools, they're taking up your hospital, and in many cases, they're criminals.

[David Pakman]

I'm not hearing any crimes that Newsom committed here. I'm really just not.

[Gavin Newsom]

And we have to do something about it, and we're doing something about it. I want to thank the incredible patriots of ice and.

[David Pakman]

And then he gets off of the topic. What crime did Newsom commit? Trump said yesterday it would be great to arrest Gavin Newsom. He thinks it should be done. What crime did he commit? He ran for governor. And if you think this is a dangerous, authoritarian meltdown, which it is, you've got to see the other stuff Trump was asked about during this event at the White House State Dining Room yesterday, during which Donald Trump said that Gavin Newsom committed the crime of running for governor and should be arrested. He was asked other questions, and these questions really provide a window, a bleak window, I have to tell you, a bleak window into Trump's thinking at this point in time. Trump is asked about how in 2020, he said, you can't send in the National Guard unless a governor wants it. But this week, Trump sent in the National Guard, even though no governor wanted it. In California. He's asked, why did your view change? And Trump says, well, the difference is the governor is now incompetent. Except in 2020, it was the same damn governor. Listen to this. In 2020, when you were talking about unrest in American cities, you said, quote, we have to go by the laws. We can't call in the National Guard unless we're requested by a governor. What changed now? Why is this situation different to not consult with Governor Newsom about this?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, the biggest change from that statement is we have an incompetent governor. So I talked about governors, but I Didn't talk about he's an incompetent governor. Look at the job he's doing in California. He's destroying one of our great states. And if I didn't get involved, if we didn't bring the guard in, and we would bring more in if we needed it, because we have to make sure there's going to be law and order. You had a disaster happening, and they now admit it was a disaster. I watched the 2020.

[David Pakman]

There it is. The difference is the governor is incompetent, except it's the same governor and the same sort of broader context that Donald Trump was talking about in 2020. Other topics came up, including Trump being asked after this insane fallout that took place with Elon Musk, do you plan to speak to him? And Trump, ever the loyalty demander, says Elon's the one who should want to speak to me. On Elon Musk, do you plan to.

[Jason Carroll]

Speak to him on the phone anytime soon?

[Gavin Newsom]

I haven't really thought about it, actually. I would imagine he wants to speak to me. I would think that if I were him, I'd want to speak to me. But I may be already called. You'd have to ask him. Ask him whether or not he's already called, but I'd have no problem with it. Well, I don't want to say that, but, you know. But I would imagine he'd want to talk to me.

[David Pakman]

Elon, by all reports, is not exactly beating down the door to talk to Donald Trump. It doesn't seem that he is eager to do it. Now, Trump, interestingly, was asked about this alleged physical fight that took place in the White House between Elon Musk and Scott Besant, which is really emblematic of the dysfunction of this White House and of the absurd nature of Elon Musk ever having been involved. Trump asked, did you see the fight? And Trump goes, I didn't see it, but there was definitely an argument.

[Donald Trump]

Did you ever see Elon Musk get physical with the Treasury Secretary?

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I didn't, and I tried to. They did have an argument, but I didn't see it. I didn't see a lot of physicality there.

[Donald Trump]

There was this New York Times report that he did not want to talk about. Elon Musk that alleged that he, towards the end of his time in the White House, was blurring the lines between recreational use of drugs and medicinal. Do you think he ever had drugs here at the White House?

[Gavin Newsom]

I really don't know. I don't think so. I hope not. Look, I wish him well, you understand we had a good relationship and I just wish him well.

[David Pakman]

Yep, he wishes him well. After trashing Tesla, after building up Tesla, hilariously, the topic of the Tesla did come up and Trump weirdly alluding to how he has a lot of places he could put that Tesla. He might shove it up. No, no, no. Where exactly might Trump goes? I've got a lot of places I could put it. Are you going to get rid of the Tesla and the Starlink service that you have here at the White House?

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I haven't heard that. I mean, I may move the Tesla around a little bit, but I don't think we'll be doing that with. It's a good service.

[David Pakman]

Where are you going to move it to move it around? What do you mean?

[Gavin Newsom]

I have a lot of locations. Actually about so many locations, I don't know what to do with them all.

[David Pakman]

He might put the Tesla at the back of the driving range at Bedminster. What a weird event. And then capping it, Trump with some very, very risky pronunciation, visibly struggling to say the name of Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi. This is terrifying. Trump's worst nightmare, having to pronounce names.

[Gavin Newsom]

Thank you very much, Uber CEO Dara Kaz Raise casa where Kaz Ross saw.

[David Pakman]

Trump engaged in a battle against his lips, tongue and teeth that only the woke generals could really overcome. Derek as.

[Gavin Newsom]

Wow.

[David Pakman]

Horrifying. Horrifying. And as cartoonish and pathetic as this is, no matter what the setting is, Trump's authoritarian instincts just come through. Arrest this hurt that business because I don't like the guy anymore. That's where we are. And if you want to see this sort of authoritarianism personified in cartoonish form, I have two words for you, Stephen Miller. And we'll look at that after the break. People in my audience know I am a bit of a pastry connoisseur. Our sponsor, Wild Grain is the first bake from frozen subscription box for artisanal breads, pastries and pastas. Wild Grains boxes are customizable, depending on what you like and prefer fur. They've got their classic variety box. They've launched the new gluten free box. They have a plant based box that's 100% vegan and it just takes the hassle out of baking because all items bake from frozen in 25 minutes or less. Nothing to clean up. My experience has been awesome. I love the croissants. I was having people over last week, half an hour before preheat and throw them in the oven and people Love it. Definitely. The croissants are my favorite. The quality and the freshness of the items is extraordinary and it is just so convenient. Go to wildgrain.com/pacman to start your subscription and get $30 off your first box. Plus free croissants in every box every month. That's wildgrain.com/pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. You know, every time we call out Donald Trump's authoritarianism, the right calls it media hysteria. But I want to remind you that Trump admits he's looking for ways to defy the Constitution and maybe even pursue another term. Now, if you don't know the bias behind your news, you might believe. Oh, Trump's just teasing us. There's nothing here. Go to Ground News slash Pacman and see how media bias influences more than your perception from Trump's policy and ability to understand and undermine constitutional norms. I've been with Ground News for years now because this is what they do. They expose the hidden agendas behind reporting sources and make it easy to compare coverage and understand critical issues. And even better, if I'm reading a story on another site, the Ground News browser extension will flag the sources political bias and give me other reports on the same story so I can verify the information. My viewers get 40% off the same unlimited vantage plan that I use. So you get their top tier plan for just $5 a month. Go to ground.news/pacman. The link is in the description or scan the QR code. I'm going to give you an example here of brazen suck up ism, the only currency that the current President of the United States knows. And it couldn't come from a more disgusting and depraved individual, Stephen Miller. We're going to look at a tweet that Stephen Miller put out on X now. We call them excretions. Miller excreted some nasty, nasty lies. Let me read it to you first and then we will talk about it. Stephen Miller wrote, illegal aliens invaded America. The government of California aided and abetted that invasion. Violent mobs incited by California leaders attacked ICE officers to keep them from removing the invaders. California officials refused to send the police to rescue the ICE officers, hoping the rioters would succeed in shutting down ICE raids. This is an organized insurrection against the laws and sovereignty of the United States. So just take it piece by piece and you'll see that the defenses that these people put together are really based out of political loyalty and not out of any loyalty to the facts or reality. Illegal aliens invaded America, Miller said. The government of California, we'll get. Let's just deal with that. The people arriving are migrants. They cross the border, some of them irregularly. Irregularly. But they are not an invading army. That militaristic language misframes migration as a hostile occupation, which it isn't. A lot of what we are seeing right now in terms of the flouting of the law is based on the characterization of people migrating as some kind of army type invasion, a militaristic invasion. And it's not. Number two, when he talks about California, aiding and abetting. California is a sanctuary state under SB 54. What that means is very limited. It means local police don't enforce federal immigration law. That's it. It's a policy choice. There's no secret assistance to illegal entry. California is not in any way aiding or abetting. They are, as allowed by the law, not having local law enforcement do federal immigration enforcement. They are allowed to do that. They are not facilitating any entry across the border. In terms of violent mobs being incited by California leaders, there were violent clashes. I'm against violence. I'm against property crime, I'm against looting, all of it. Right. So when we saw bricks, Molotov cocktails, this sort of stuff, that I'm against that. But there is no credible evidence that Governor Gavin Newsom, Louisiana Mayor Karen Bass, other state leaders incited any of the violence. In fact, when you look at what Governor Newsom has actually said, he's condemned the violence and he has said people should protest peacefully. Then he says California officials refused to send the police. LAPD and California Highway Patrol engaged after violence erupted in downtown L. A. LAPD said this is an unlawful assembly. They declared a dispersal order. They used less lethal munitions within hours, to the point that a lot of people said it's wrong that they're doing that. So the idea that California refused to involve police in is absurd. And then finally, he calls it an organized insurrection. This is very relevant legally, because Trump's justification, to a degree, for overriding the desires of Governor Newsom and Mayor Karen Bass is that it's an insurrection and therefore he needs to send the troops, the federal troops. The protests were a response to ICE raids, some of which turned violent. But there was no organized insurrection. There was no central leadership. There was no coherent strategy to overthrow the government. State officials and courts have said these incidents are incidents of unrest, but there is no rebellion or insurrection here. However, January 6, 2021 was a real insurrection. It was a coordinated attempt to overthrow the democratic process. Led and instigated by a sitting president who wanted to stay in power even though he lost. There were fake electors. There was a violent breach of the Capitol. There was a plot to nullify millions of votes. That's the textbook definition of insurrection. Trump didn't call it that then. And the people who are now saying this is an insurrection were silent when that was going on. That's the reality of the situation. This is the architecture of spreading disinformation. And there's few people more brazen and more willing to do it than Stephen Miller. Recent images of Donald Trump have started a fresh wave of speculation about his health. These concerns are, of course, amplified by undeniable facts. Trump is the oldest person ever to be sworn in as president. When he was sworn in in 2025. We have had persistent lack of transparency from the White House regarding his medical status. He's the healthiest person ever. He's 63 and weighs 219 or whatever it was. And of course, that lack of transparency, the hyperbole fuels speculation. So here is what we have right now. The latest round of online speculation. Dozens of you writing to me saying, david, what do you think about this? Was fueled by photographs that emerge of Donald Trump, where Internet sleuths started zooming in on these images, pointing to what seemed to be unusual shapes and bulges in Trump's pant legs. This immediately led to rapid fire speculation across social media and that Trump may have leg braces that he is wearing. You look on Twitter and other platforms, all sorts of explanations are proposed. Some people say these are leg braces. Others said Trump's wearing ankle foot orthotics for foot drop, possibly from nerve damage. And as we've seen, Donald Trump sometimes has that extremely strange stance where he's like leaning forward, oddly, sometimes attributed to wearing lifts to appear taller. Others saying this may be related to nerve damage. The appearance of pant legs kind of gathered around some kind of device fueled a lot of speculation. Not everybody buys into medical explanations. Some people said he seems to be wearing wrinkled pants. Trump insists on wearing these full seat oversized suits. And part of it is that leaves a lot of extra material. And that's what it is. Now, simultaneously, there are other images of Trump from the front in different locations that have led to speculation that Trump is wearing a catheter and a urine bag with the idea that Trump has urinary incontinence connected to dementia. This is completely speculative. Completely speculative. So let me say a couple of things about it. Number one, these swirling hypotheses have not been substantiated by any official source. We also know that they are extremely protective over health information about Donald Trump. They lie about his health, his health circumstances. They lie about his height, they lie about his weight. So we have simultaneously competing stories here which are, which are all true. Number one, the speculation here is nothing more than speculation. And I think at this point we all believe that if Trump had any issue, they would go as long as possible to hide it, just like they did with the seriousness of Trump's Covid during his first term. White House maintains Trump's in excellent health, healthiest ever. He's so good, he's so healthy. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, if we go outside these leg brace catheter discussions to the broader, what I think is the more important concern about Trump's cognitive and emotional state, we have even a growing number of Republicans saying something's up here, something's not right. We heard last week from Rick Wilson, Republican strategist, co founder of the Lincoln Project, who says Trump's noticeably declining. If you run transcripts of Trump's interviews through any chat bot and say, evaluate the complexity, vocabulary, diversity and other factors of speech over time, don't take my word for it. Feed the speeches, speed or not speeches, because often he's reading those. Feed Trump's interview answers into chatbots or a similar tool and see what it says about the decline over time. That seems to be the biggest concern. Leg braces? I don't know. Maybe Trump's wearing a catheter. I have no idea. What we know big picture is that every official report presents an impossibly positive picture of Trump's health. We know that that isn't true. We know we're not getting the truth. And as a result, that lack of transparency is what leads to speculation like what we are seeing now. So let me know what you believe. Write to me info@david pakman.com or leave a comment on our substack or on our YouTube channel. What do you see in these images? And just as importantly, if Trump had a serious health event, do you think the White House would be forthcoming or they would delay telling the public the truth for as long as humanly possibly possible? That's the question I have for you. I want to introduce you to an amazing tool that has helped a huge number of people reach their health goals. It is called Lumen, and it's the world's first hit handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath. And on the app, it'll tell you are you burning fat or carbs? And give you tailored guidance to improve nutrition, workouts, even stress management. Your metabolism is like the engine of your body, how you turn food into fuel. And because your metabolism is at the center of everything your body does, optimal metabolic health can translate to to many benefits, including easier weight management and improved energy levels and fitness results. It's a long list. Lumen gives you recommendations to improve metabolic health based on the context of your breath measurement, whether that's first thing in the morning, before and after meals or workouts. And you can get 20% off your lumen by going to Lumen Me Pacman that's L u m e n.me/pacman for 20% off. The link is in the podcast Notes if you've ever dealt with nausea occasionally, more frequently, you might want to check out one of our sponsors Relief Band A wearable wristband designed to relieve and maybe even prevent nausea. Many people use it for nausea related to anxiety or migraines or traveling by car, plane or boat. Sort of motion sickness. Easy to use, works quickly, lasts as long as you need. Completely drug free, no side effects. This was originally developed for use in hospital settings and it works through a process called transdermal neuromodulation. ACU stimulation, which is a lot of words to basically say it sends a pulse to the part of your nervous system involved in regulating nausea. And there's research indicating this can be helpful for nausea from motion sickness, pregnancy, even from certain drug side effects. And there are studies that suggest that combined with medication, it can be very useful for post surgery nausea. Relief Band's new Premier plus model provides advanced nausea relief and includes a digital clock. Uses smart skin sensing technology to preserve battery life. Relief Ban has earned an A plus rating from the Better Business Bureau and It has over 100000 satisfied customers online. If nausea is something you deal with, it might be worth seeing. If Relief Ban can help, visit reliefband.com and use the code PACMAN for 20% off plus free shipping. The info is in the description the Elon Musk Donald Trump situation has gone from feud to threaten Donald Trump is now openly warning Elon Musk if he gives money to Democrats, there will be, quote, very serious consequences. Now, he hasn't said what that means, but he said it twice on the record as the sitting President of the United States. And of course, if you've been watching this relationship implode as we all expected it to, you know how wild this is. Because it wasn't that long ago that that Trump and Musk were really propping each other up. Musk spent hundreds of millions helping Trump get elected. Trump handed him a fake job title, Director of Government, Efficiency, Director of Doge, and let him start gutting departments. And it really wasn't a bromance as much. It was like an unholy alliance between two ego maniacal narcissists who thought, I'm going to use the other person to my advantage. But the moment that Elon Musk turned and started saying, this budget's no good, I don't like the tariffs. Even reposting Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy bait about Donald Trump, it completely fell apart. Musk nuked the relationship. Trump promised retaliation, said he doesn't even really like these stupid Teslas and the whole thing. And now Donald Trump is really laying the groundwork for revenge by saying if Musk should dare to back Democrats, to donate to Democrats, Trump says he will make Ellen pay. No details, no policy justification, just very serious consequences. Because we know that in Donald Trump's mind, turning on him isn't just disloyalty the worst sin anyone can commit against Trump, it's punishable. And that by itself should really be a scandal, the President threatening anyone using their First Amendment rights. But we see, of course, that he's threatening everybody. He's threatening Ellen. He's saying that Governor Gavin Newsom should be arrested. It probably won't register as more than a ripple with everything else that Donald Trump does, but it's still outrageous, it's still authoritarian, and it still matters. Now, it's sort of ironic in a way, because Elon Musk had a chance to regain some credibility by standing up to Trump, but instead, he just kind of folded. You know, he stopped the tweets, he stopped the whole thing. The fire kind of fizzled, and the free speech absolutist actually backed off when Donald Trump started issuing threats. So, like, maybe Trump does know what he's doing as far as these threats. Trump's the same guy who once invited Kanye, Nick Fuentes, and a guy named Maga rappers for the number four Jesus to dinner at Mar a Lago. But Ellen is the one who crossed the line. But it seems like Elon's backing down, so maybe Trump does know what he's doing. Now, of course, many of us see this entire thing, and we say, this is so beneath the office of the presidency. There's. It's completely undignified. Trump doesn't care about the dignity of the office. He cares about people acting as though he is the ultimate source of Power. And Musk was playing along. It went fine when Elon Musk played along, but as soon as Elon Musk stopped playing along, all of a sudden it was no good. In Trump world, corruption isn't about what's right and it's not about what's legal. It's about who's in charge here. And right now, Trump's in charge. It seems clear he's hinted at canceling Musk's government contracts. He's fuming that Musk knew about the budget bill and criticized it. He even floated that Elon is depressed and heartbroken, which is a classic Trump move, which is emasculate. Elon dares challenge Trump, Trump tries to emasculate him. Imagine if Biden threatened to punish Jeff Bezos or Rupert Murdoch for donating to Republicans. Fox News would have a countdown clock to impeachment. But when Trump does it, it's kind of politics as, as usual. So the normalization is a big part of the danger here. Now, there's another aspect of this which may go beyond political blowback. Investors are watching what's happening with Elon and his companies, and there is now a prediction market. Kalshee asking, is Elon going to be ousted as Tesla CEO this year? And the odds of that spiked after Elon's beef with Trump went public just a few days ago. It's sitting at 13% now at this point. And this is really a sign that shareholders are seeing this entire clash has become way too volatile. And sometimes these prediction markets can be some of the most accurate ways of predicting these things. I use Kalshee all the time to check odds or track sentiment. And it's the only place to trade on these kinds of events legally in all 50 states, if that's your thing. And it tells you something else. Trump doesn't want allies, he wants subordinates. As soon as you think for yourself, if you're Chris Christie, Liz Cheney, Elon Musk, Adam Kinzinger, whoever, you're out, you're ridiculed, you're threatened. And that's another aspect of cult, cult. So where does this go? Trump might escalate further, use the federal government to punish Elon financially. Cut Space X off from subsidies, put them under DOJ investigations or all that sort of thing. Musk might hit back, maybe double down and say, I'm going to support Democrats or fund a third party challenge or something like that. Either way, this is the clearest sign yet that the MAGA coalition is at risk of disintegration. And it's not just that Trump and Musk, I guess, hate each other. The whole ecosystem is cracking. You got the grifters, you got the tech bros, the want to be revolutionaries, the few actual conservatives that are still holding out and the GOP establishment gets closer and closer to death. So it's not really a fight, it's a purge. Trump made it clear you cross him, you pay. The question is, will this be enough to re coalesce the movement or is it inevitably going towards falling apart? You do not need a political science degree to see that the United States is in a political freefall the likes of which we haven't seen for a very long time. Now, this discussion that I want to have with you was inspired by a column from David French published in the New York Times titled America is no longer a stable Country. I encourage you to read it. French is right, but I would argue French doesn't even go far enough in the peace. Because what we are living through right now is more than just instability as a country. It is a hostile government takeover. Go down the list. Trump sends thousands of National Guard troops, 700 Marines into L A. No state authorization, as we've talked about, refused the California governor's request to rescind them. ICE agents are operating in ski masks, rounding up immigrants in the middle of the night, sort of like a modern day Gestapo. He has more troops on standby in California. His Secretary of defense threatened to deploy, but now has deployed the active duty Marines. And Trump is saying it's all justified because of a migrant invasion and a rebellion, neither of those things actually existing. And then threatening to get officials arrested. Gavin Newsom and or Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass. None of this is a president governing out of law and order. This is all a dry run for martial law. And French rightly notes in the piece that Trump hasn't yet invoked the Insurrection act. But everything he's doing is laying the groundwork for it. His administration is deliberately escalating every conflict to create the justification. And meanwhile in D.C. they're slashing social programs, they're destabilizing the the economy, the tariffs. We've seen democracy destabilized, wants tax breaks for the rich, gutting Medicare, American Medicaid, Social Security. You know, you go to buy groceries and you wonder what new import tax tariff is going to affect my grocery bill. And it hasn't even been six months. And that is what we really need to get people understanding. Trump is not doing this alone. He's doing a lot of it out of confusion and some desire to be seen as a big, strong guy. But he has the backing, either explicitly or implicitly, of the Republican Party in power. Now, there are some dissidents. Thomas Massie doesn't like the bill, Rand Paul. But the big picture here is that he's got enough buy in that the machine is operating. So, you know, we blame Trump, but we also don't see Trump as a lone kind of aberration. This is the end game of the right wing movement. And right now they are getting some wins. Tens of millions of Americans voted for it. Many of them are now cheering it on. They're saying, America's back. Their paychecks may be shrinking. You know, prices may be rising. You think a tariff war makes you stronger? Well, let's see how patriotic it feels when you can't afford gas, eggs or rent, which is, of course, potentially the direction things are going. And then you look at Congress and you realize Republicans could stop all of this right now. They could rein in the abuses of power, but they're not going to because this is what they want. It's not that the country fell off a cliff. It's sort of like it walked off of a cliff. So I believe David French is completely correct. The United States is no longer a stable country. But what he's not saying is that we are watching it happen in slow motion. And it's getting worse and worse and worse. Not with tanks and flags, although Trump will have those on the streets for his birthday parade. It's with legal memos, military uniforms, executive orders, cable news anchors smiling on the curvy couch or on Newsmax or whatever, saying, what leadership we are seeing. Isn't this awesome? So is this authoritarianism? Throw that question out, Flush it down the toilet. This is authoritarianism. The question is, how deep into authoritarianism are we going to go before people stop pretending that this is actually something else? I don't know where the line is, but what we know is that if we aren't at the line now, as I believe we are and should be, if we aren't at the line now, as far as Americans are concerned, there may be no line at which point the country says, this is not what this country was based upon. This is not the rule of law. This is not the Constitution. Are we there? Is there some other point where we will be? Let me know. On the bonus show today, we will talk about the efforts to woo Elon Musk that are taking place. The Trump travel ban is now in effect and we will talk about its immediate impact. And Dave Portnoy lost it on air at a barstool. Co host over Jew jokes. There's a bigger story here with portnoy and anti Semitism and Jew jokes that I want to talk about all of that on the bonus show. Sign up@join pacman.com I'll see you there.

[Stephen Miller]

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