6/13/25: Trump voter in tears, Tulsi makes it all up

Summary

Summary of "The David Pakman Show" Episode: June 13, 2025

Podcast Information:

• Title: The David Pakman Show
• Host: David Pakman
• Description: As one of the most-watched independent progressive programs in the country, The David Pakman Show delivers sharp, insightful, and fact-based analysis on politics, current events, and social issues through thoughtful commentary and compelling interviews with national leaders.

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1. Introduction: Trump's Tariff Policies and Administrative Retreat

Timestamp: [00:07] - [02:55]

David Pakman opens the episode by addressing the looming massive protests against President Donald Trump’s administration, highlighting internal contradictions within Trump's policy implementations. He cites Secretary of the Treasury Scott Bessant's recent statements on tariffs, indicating a possible extension beyond the initial 90-day deadline. Pakman criticizes the administration for repeatedly pausing tariffs without securing durable trade deals, mocking with the term "imposing and then pausing tariffs ad infinitum."

Notable Quotes:

• David Pakman [00:07]: "We are now governing by Trump chickening out and running the country off of imposing and then pausing tariffs ad infinitum."
• Congressman Buyer [00:57]: "He gave an answer that was frankly all over the place and difficult to understand."

2. Critique of Trump's Economic Handling

Timestamp: [02:31] - [04:20]

Pakman continues his critique by discussing the administration's handling of economic data, particularly GDP growth. He highlights discrepancies between official statements and actual economic indicators, questioning the transparency and effectiveness of Trump's economic policies. This segment underscores Pakman's skepticism regarding the administration's optimistic portrayal of economic health.

Notable Quotes:

• David Pakman [03:21]: "GDP growth was negative in Q1, and in about five weeks we're going to know the outcome for GDP for Q2."
• Congressman Buyer [03:21]: "Isn't this embarrassing?"

3. Tulsi Gabbard's Claims on Protesters Being Paid

Timestamp: [04:20] - [07:16]

The discussion shifts to Tulsi Gabbard’s recent appearance on Fox News, where she alleges that many protesters are paid agitators orchestrating unrest. Pakman challenges these claims by presenting evidence that debunks the notion of paid protesters, including a fabricated Craigslist ad meant to recruit seat fillers for Trump's parade. He emphasizes the lack of credible evidence supporting Gabbard's assertions.

Notable Quotes:

• Tulsi Gabbard [06:06]: "So many of them are paid protesters."
• David Pakman [06:30]: "What evidence do we have of that?"

4. Impact of ICE Raids on Trump Supporters

Timestamp: [07:16] - [12:08]

Pakman introduces a poignant segment featuring Vincent Scardina, a Florida roofing company owner who supported Trump but is now devastated as ICE detains a third of his workforce. The segment highlights the unintended consequences of Trump's stringent immigration policies, showcasing personal stories of affected businesses and communities.

Notable Quotes:

• Vincent Scardina [10:09]: "Losing these six men is losing a third of my workers."
• David Pakman [11:03]: "This is tragic, but it's very revealing."

5. Authoritarian Tendencies and Fascism Accusations

Timestamp: [12:08] - [24:50]

Pakman delves into a broader analysis, arguing that Trump's actions exemplify creeping fascism within a nominally democratic framework. He draws parallels to historical authoritarian regimes, emphasizing the strategic use of state violence, suppression of dissent, and manipulation of media narratives to consolidate power. Pakman warns of the dangers of allowing such tactics to become normalized and urges proactive resistance.

Notable Quotes:

• David Pakman [24:50]: "Fascism doesn’t always arrive in jackboots. Sometimes it’s with a suit, at a lectern, with a smile and a salute."
• David Pakman [24:50]: "This is fascism and adapted for a nominally democratic environment and sanitized for cable news."

6. Legal Analysis of Military Deployment in Los Angeles

Timestamp: [39:24] - [57:52]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to examining the legality of President Trump's decision to deploy federal troops and Marines to Los Angeles to quell protests without state consent. Pakman references the Posse Comitatus Act, which restricts the use of military forces for domestic law enforcement, and analyzes whether Trump's actions violated this legislation. He discusses responses from legal experts and the implications of such moves on constitutional norms.

Notable Quotes:

• David Pakman [39:46]: "Trump seemingly did it on a whim between golf holes and the point of the law."
• David Pakman [39:46]: "The founders intended to keep the military out of local law enforcement, but Trump is overriding state sovereignty."

7. Listener Feedback and Show Direction

Timestamp: [57:52] - [End]

Towards the end of the episode, Pakman addresses feedback from his audience, both positive and critical. He acknowledges the varying opinions on the show's content and discusses plans to adjust the broadcast schedule to better accommodate listeners. Pakman emphasizes the show's commitment to authenticity and addressing the topics he deems most pressing, rather than catering to all audience preferences.

Notable Quotes:

• David Pakman [57:52]: "The show has to be the stories I feel like talking about in the way I feel like talking about them."
• David Pakman [57:52]: "We are trying to build an ecosystem here. No one show can be everything to everybody."

8. Strategies for Democrats to Engage Young Men

Timestamp: [25:16] - [39:24]

Addressing political strategy, Pakman discusses the Democratic Party's challenges in engaging young male voters. He critiques superficial outreach efforts and offers constructive strategies to genuinely connect with this demographic. Pakman suggests authentic dialogue, addressing economic frustrations, and presenting progressive policies as empowering to rebuild trust and support among young men.

Notable Quotes:

• David Pakman [35:00]: "You need to speak clearly. Not a drill, not a practice, not a false alarm, not theater, not satire. It's real and it's happening right now."
• David Pakman [35:00]: "Democrats should be saying, if you want to build something that's great, let's build a world that works for everybody."

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Conclusion: In this episode of The David Pakman Show, David Pakman provides a critical examination of President Trump's economic and immigration policies, highlighting internal inconsistencies and their real-world impacts. He raises concerns about authoritarianism and challenges claims that aim to delegitimize genuine protests. Additionally, Pakman engages with his audience's feedback, reinforcing his commitment to addressing substantive issues and offering strategic insights for the Democratic Party to reconnect with young male voters.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Welcome to the show, everybody. As we are on the eve of the biggest protests of Donald Trump's second term, probably the biggest protests of Donald Trump's presidency, we have top Trump staffers admitting Trump's running away from his own policy. Scott Bessant, the Secretary of the treasury, was answering questions this week about the tariffs. And Bessant says we're probably going to see another extension past the 90 day deadline. We are now governing by Trump chickening out and running the country off of imposing and then pausing tariffs ad infinitum, as the kids like to say. Take a listen to this.

[Congressman Buyer]

He gave an answer that was frankly all over the place and difficult to understand. We're less than a month away from Liberation Day Part 2. Very few of the trade deals have been announced yet. I think most people in Congress and around the world would like to know what's going on. Should America be preparing for Liberation Day 2.0? Should we plan? What do we plan for January, July 9 and July 2?

[Scott Bessant]

I would say, as I have repeatedly said, that there are 18 important trading partners. We are working toward deals on those. And it is highly likely that those countries that are negotiate or trading blocks, as in the case of the eu, who are negotiating in good faith, we will roll the date forward to continue the good faith negotiations. If someone is not negotiating, then we will not.

[David Pakman]

I'm hearing that Trump does always chicken out. 90 deals in 90 days. We're still waiting on one damn deal in 130 or something days. And the country is running right now off of a series of repeated pauses of tariffs. And we still don't have any real durable deals. Now, one funny moment. Congressman Gomez sort of brought up Elon Musk body checking Besant. And Besant just kind of played it like, oh, some of the reporting on this hasn't been right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Secretary, how are you doing?

[Scott Bessant]

So far so good.

[David Pakman]

Okay. I was just curious because I know Elon Musk body checked you at the White House. I just know animosity to Elon Musk.

[Scott Bessant]

You know that?

[David Pakman]

That's what I heard.

[Scott Bessant]

So you believe. You believe what you read on Breitbart is what you're telling us, Congressman.

[David Pakman]

I didn't know if it's too sensitive for you, I won't ask that question. But let me move.

[Scott Bessant]

I will take South Carolina over South Africa any day.

[David Pakman]

Wow. Wow. Shots fired there by Besson. And then maybe more substantively and just as terrifying, Congressman Buyer asks about economic data and GDP data and Bessant doesn't seem to acknowledge reality that GDP was down in Q1 and it may be down in Q2. We don't yet know.

[Congressman Buyer]

Marcus have reacted positively. Is when the administration is in retreat from key policy areas. I want to say, given your successful past, isn't this embarrassing?

[Scott Bessant]

Is there a question there, sir?

[Congressman Buyer]

Is a question. Isn't this embarrassing?

[Scott Bessant]

Oh, is it embarrassing? Well, I'm sorry, Congressman, but you the seem not to have seen the economic data. The GDP growth has been quite substantial. Job growth is solid.

[Congressman Buyer]

GDP growth is half what it was last year, sir.

[Scott Bessant]

The job growth is solid. And we had.

[Congressman Buyer]

Job growth. Is a third what it was all last year, sir?

[Scott Bessant]

No, no, no. And private sector job growth especially. And if you'd like to talk about inflation. Would you?

[Congressman Buyer]

The inflation has been coming down. You see, Inflation is good. So far we will see. Every economic thing I read, which is much every day suggests the impact of the tariffs is not.

[Scott Bessant]

Well, why don't. Why don't we look at the data rather than the hysteria, which is how I made my career.

[David Pakman]

And of course, not acknowledging that GDP is down and it may be further down. One of the really important takeaways I think, is I really, with this economic data stuff, try to abstract myself from the politics of it. Let's think about who can give us information that we can count on CBO in terms of scoring tax bills or whatever the case may be. And let's go to the primary data and we can then ask the political questions. What policies led to this or what sort of economic ideology is. Is wrapped up in the White House right now that could either help or hurt this? We do all that stuff, but we start with the numbers. And the numbers are GDP growth was negative in Q1, and in about five weeks we're going to know the outcome for GDP for Q2. And it just feels painfully dumb, painfully dumb to not even start with the facts. But that's where we are right now. Tulsi Gabbard appeared on Fox News to make all of it up, and she is now diving into the conspiracy theory that we'll later see Trump dove into that the protesters in Los Angeles and elsewhere are getting paid. Now, I'm going to listen to her explain it to you. We're going to listen to her explain it to you. She's the Director of National Intelligence. But it's important to mention, number one, we still have no evidence that the protesters are getting paid. And number two, why would they need to be paid? What's taking place is so vile and disgusting that of course People are protesting. People are furious. Take a listen to this.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

The bottom line is they don't care about the American people. They don't even care about the people that they're claiming to protest for. So many of them are paid protesters. This thing is being orchestrated, obviously, in many ways. And ultimately President Trump is the one who took action to keep the American people safe and try to bring peace back to the streets that these rioters are destroying.

[David Pakman]

What can you.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

The bottom line is they don't care.

[David Pakman]

What evidence do we have of that? Well, she hasn't presented any. I'm going to tell you the type of evidence they're talking about. And she mentions it here. Here is Tulsi saying there's an investigation into Craigslist ads. Listen to this. Can you tell us about the orchestration, the financing?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

And is Gavin, either, whether he knows or not, actually siding with the cartels here? Whether he knows it or not, he is certainly. Again, this is something that the Department of Justice and the FBI is looking into. Who is funding these protesters? We've seen, you know, the ads put up on Craigslist offering people thousands of dollars a week to go out and conduct these violent and dangerous riots in.

[David Pakman]

Let's talk about the Craigslist ads. I don't believe these Craigslist ads. I think they're bullshit. I'm going to show you an example. Here's one that somebody sent me, ok? This is not a Craigslist ad to get people protesting in L. A. This is a Craigslist ad to get people filling seats at Trump's parade on Saturday. It's obvious bullshit, okay? These are provocateurs. When you look at it, there's a few signs that this is nonsense. Number one, you look at the compensation. It says each seat filler at Trump's parade will be paid $1,000 in crypto by an LLC called Fight Fight Fight LLC. You know, no one would pay $1,000 per person if you were doing this. It's just ridiculous. Even if it was five hours, that would be $200 per hour. Very few people make $200 per hour and they don't make it for standing around. The other thing here is that when you look at the details, it says you will be provided a red hat to wear. Making it, of course, it's a Trump MAGA hat, but we're not really saying that. And then it also says we encourage people of color and ethnic groups to sign up for maximum perception control that you would never include if you were looking to recruit black and brown people okay. To fill seats around Trump or his parade. You wouldn't include for maximum perception control in the ad. So there are these Craigslist ads for seat fillers and protesters on both sides to make Trump look bad and to make the protesters look bad. It. All the whole ads on Craigslist thing seems to be complete and total bullshit. Now, if that changes, if Tulsi figures something out that differs from that, I will tell you. All right, things are getting very real very quickly. Going to play a video here for you of a Florida roofing company owner, Vincent Scardina, who voted for Trump, supported the immigration crackdowns as he understood them. And he is now in tears on camera because ICE just detained a third of his staff. The men are Nicaraguan, no criminal record, valid work permits, asylum claims pending. They've done everything right. But that didn't stop ice. Why? Because Stephen Miller told ICE to go scorched earth and deport as many people as possible. No matter the context. Trump said, oh, we're going to be going after the hardened criminals, but they're just doing raids across the country, Home Depots, of just people looking for honest work. And here is Scar Dina, stunned that the monster he voted into power is now coming for his employees. Look at this.

[Vincent Scardina]

You've lived in Key west for how long?

[Reporter]

44 years?

[Vincent Scardina]

Vincent Scardena is the owner of the roofing company where they worked. He's owned it 37 years.

[Reporter]

It's going to be really hard to replace those guys.

[Vincent Scardina]

Says losing these six men is losing a third of his workers.

[Reporter]

We're not able in Key west to just replace people as easy, easily as, say, a big city, very limited people to pull from. And then you would have to train them. And that takes sometimes years.

[Vincent Scardina]

But for Vincent, it's much more than that.

[Reporter]

It's financially as well as emotionally. It takes a toll. You get to know these guys, you become their friends. Just not an employer, but a friend, and you see what happens to their family. It's. It's quite a shock.

[Vincent Scardina]

Given his support for the president. We asked what he would tell the commander in chief if he had a chance.

[Reporter]

What happened here, this situation is just totally, just blatantly not at all what they said it was.

[Vincent Scardina]

Vincent, you voted for Donald Trump.

[Reporter]

Yes, I did.

[Vincent Scardina]

While he agrees with most of the president's policies, he thought the Trump administration was going to focus solely on deporting criminals.

[David Pakman]

Yeah. You know, something about Trump and Homan and Miller and all of them saying this will be the largest deportation program ever, something about that didn't get through to him.

[Vincent Scardina]

It seems immigration officials, he says, are just trying to meet quotas now.

[Reporter]

Buyer's remorse, I don't know. A little bit.

[Vincent Scardina]

How much damage does this create in your community?

[Reporter]

It's not just happening to me. I mean, it's happening across the board. I know one landscaper that lost nine or 10 of his, the whole crew he had, and he's just totally out of business all of a sudden.

[Vincent Scardina]

He wants his workers released and yearns for normalcy in his community and for the families of the men many argue were wrongfully.

[David Pakman]

All right, you get it. But he voted for it, right? So listen, this is tragic, but it's very revealing. The truth is that this was always the plan. Trump didn't really hide the agenda. The cruelty was the point of it from day one. It was about making life unbearable for immigrants, whether they're here legally or not. We've been warning people, we've been telling people over and over again businesses will suffer. And so when I hear Scardina say, this isn't what I signed up for, the answer is it is what you signed up for. You didn't know that this is what you were signing up for. You thought the hammer was going to drop on somebody else and, and this is like one of the big maga lies you. You come to believe. Trump's going to unleash chaos, but it's only going to affect other people. I'm going to stay safe. But it's now crashing through his business, it's crashing through his life, his friends, as he describes them, and this is only going to get worse. So do I have sympathy for the workers? Of course I do. They did nothing wrong. But for the boss who voted for this crap, thinking it was going to hurt other people, that's not buyer's remorse, that's accountability. And we now are realizing that the fears that this would be bad for businesses and this would be bad in so many different ways, it's all completely true. Now, I know that many of you are going to be out protesting this, this weekend at the no Kings Day protests. That's phenomenal. I believe these protests are going to be absolutely massive. As Senator Brian Schatz told us yesterday, we need to self police. And so we all know that if there's any looting, any violence, any fights, this is what the right wing media is going to seize upon. I'm going to be at these protests tomorrow. Producer Pat said he would be, etc. We need to police the movement. What do we do? About provocateurs from the right that show up seeking to make it seem as though the left is doing this stuff. Well, we got to police that as well. Okay? So I am cautiously optimistic that these protests are going to be huge. They're going to make noise, they're going to be seen. I hope to run into some of you out there. And then of course, on Monday, we will do a full debrief and analysis. But one of the things that's critical to understand is that the fascism is here. It's in a different form than you might have expected it, but the fascism is here. And I want to really dig into that contextually and historically. After this short break. I am not exactly a wizard at building and fixing stuff around the house. I leave it to the pros. I recently moved and the blinds in my new home office looked like they were from 2005. The room needed a little updating, so I went to three Day Blinds, the leading manufacturer of high quality custom window treatments in the US you don't need to leave home to shop for blinds. Three Day Blinds has local, professionally trained design consultants with an average of more than 10 years of experience. They'll come to your home, they'll give you guidance, they'll tell you, here's what would work in this space. The quote is free with no obligation. And and their expert team will then design, measure, and install everything. So you just sit back and relax. You don't have to do anything. I love the new window treatments that three Day Blinds got me for my office. It looks great. Schedule your free no charge, no obligation consultation. You'll also get their buy one, get one 50% off deal on custom blinds, shades, shutters and drapery. When you go to three three day blinds.com/pacman, that's buy one get one 50% off when you go to the number three DIY blinds.com/pacman. The link is in the podcast notes. You know, every time we call out Donald Trump's authoritarianism, the right calls it media hysteria. But I want to remind you that Trump admits he's looking for ways to defy the Constitution and maybe even pursue another term. Now, if you don't know the bias behind your news, you might believe, oh, Trump's just teasing us. There's nothing here. Go to ground.news/pacman and see how media bias influences more than your perception from Trump's policy and ability to understand and undermine code constitutional norms. I've been with Ground News for years now because this is what they do. They expose the hidden agendas behind reporting sources and make it easy to compare coverage and understand critical issues. Even better if I'm reading a story on another site, the Ground News browser extension will flag the source's political bias and give me other reports on the same story so I can verify the information. My viewers get 40% off the same unlimited vantage plan that I use, so you get their top tier plan for just $5 a month. Go to Ground News Slash Pacman. The link is in the description or scan the QR code. The David Pakman show is an audience supported program. I invite you to grab a membership@join pacman.com we also have free memberships available. You can request them at David pakman.com/free membership. Do not about a free membership. Any emails about free memberships are deleted. You've just got to get in line in order at David pakman.com/free membership. And for those looking to get their own, you can use the coupon code. It will end soon. To save about 50% we have to stop pretending and acknowledge that we are seeing fascism. We have to just say it the way it is while making it clear. We're not saying this is Hitler in the 1930s and 1940s. That's not what we're saying. This is not concentration camps. It's not the final solution. But fascism doesn't always arrive in jackboots. Sometimes it's with a suit, at a lectern, with a smile and a salute. And what we're watching unfold under Donald Trump in June 2025 is fascism. And it is fascism and adapted for a nominally democratic environment and sanitized for cable news. But it is still fascism. Saturday, Donald Trump will be throwing himself a $45 million taxpayer funded military parade for his birthday. It's going to feature troops, tanks, a fleet of attack helicopters. And Trump has made one thing very clear. If you protest it. Period. Not if you loot, not if you do violence. If you protest it, you will be met with very heavy force. We talked about that on Wednesday. It's a direct quote about American citizens peacefully exercising their First Amendment rights in a constitutionally protected way. If you think he's bluffing, look at Los Angeles. Because the Marines landed in a move that violated the Posse Comitatus act, the bedrock principle of law since 1878. Trump deployed 700 Marines and thousands of National Guard troops to L A to crush protests against the ICE raids. No requests from Mayor Karen Bass, no approval from Governor Gavin Newsom. When they complained, Trump threatened to arrest Them. And of course, no legal invocation of the Insurrection act, which would legalize what he's doing. Marines trained for Afghanistan were dropped into an L. A neighborhood. No clear rules of engagement, and. And a Pentagon scrambling after the fact to draft policies about. When are you even allowed to do this? When are even allowed to use force of this kind Domestically, the lapd, you know, not. Not a bastion of progressive resistance. The LAPD put out a statement saying, we oppose this. Even the cops didn't want it. They weren't notified it was happening. And what we have to remember is that fascism is a process. This is how authoritarianism builds. No one is sweeping in in an instant, but it's piece by piece. The press gets chilled. ABC fires veteran reporter Terry Moran for calling Trump and Stephen Miller haters. The process becomes criminalized. Dissent is equated with treason. Governors who object are threatened with arrest or, in Speaker Mike Johnson's words, should be tarred and feathered. That's what MAGA Mike said about Gavin Newsom. And when the protests inevitably come because of the authoritarianism, because some Americans aren't willing to sit quietly while freedoms are bulldozed, those in power manufacture a crisis. They provoke and provoke, escalate and militarize until they can justify even more state violence. And that is what Trump adviser Stephen Miller did. Order aggressive ICE raids so that you bait backlash, Use the backlash to say, we've got to send in the Marines to generate more protests in other cities. Which will end. We don't know yet, but probably not. Well, so we've been here before. This is not Nazi Germany. But also, Hitler didn't start with gas chambers. He started by demonizing minorities and saying, we've got grievances here. We're going to deploy military police to restore order. We're going to attack the legitimacy of local governments. Mussolini did parades, he did pageantry. He used state violence to centralize control and crush dissent. Pinochet did the same thing in Chile. Erdogan did it. Putin does it. And Trump wraps it all in patriotism. He claims he's restoring law and order. What he's doing is overriding state sovereignty, a principle of the Constitution, criminalizing Protestants, a constitutionally protected act, and unleashing military force on civilians without rules, precedent, and accountability. If we allow it to be, this will become the new normal. We've passed the point where this is policy differences. The idea of, you want a flat tax, I want a 50% talk top tax rate. I want a 30% top that. This is so beyond that. This is about naked, brazen, unaccountable power. And if you think Trump's Trump's going to be satisfied at stopping with California, you haven't been paying attention. Every time there's a legal loss, a pole drop or a protest or a failed policy attempt, he escalates. Violence is now in the system. So what do we do? We don't minimize this. We don't rationalize this as politics as usual or Trump being Trump. We call it creeping fascism, period. We show up now. I saw a Reddit post. Why isn't David in the streets in L. A like Hassan? Well, number one, I don't live in L. A. Number two, I can do much more on my show with the 5 million people a day that I'm reaching than I would getting into fisticuffs with police in Los Angeles. But the point here is we show up everywhere. It's not just in the streets. We show up in the media and in the ballot box, in state legislatures, in local media. The GOP apparatus is enabling what's happening, and we have to show up. And then we use whatever platform we have, however small, because fascism thrives in silence and confusion. So we've got to speak clearly. Not a drill, not a practice, not a false alarm, not theater, not satire. It's real and it's happening right now. We can stop it, but we've got to pretend we are. We should not pretend that this is any less than what it actually is. Let me know what you think. As far as the protests go, Donald Trump is now claiming that the protests in Los angeles against the ICE raids, against Marines in the streets, against this $45 million taxpayer funded birthday military military parade, he says that they are paid agitators. And in his mind, I guess you would have to be paid to protest this. This is not new. It's part of a long running authoritarian playbook. If you can't deny that there is dissent, everybody sees it on tv. If you can't deny that the dissent is happening, you've got to delegitimize it. One of the most convenient tools is these are paid protesters. Here is Scrumps making the claim.

[Vincent Scardina]

So we have this guy allowing this to happen. Let me tell you, when you watch these agitators break up concrete and hand it out to people as they stood on line to get it. These have to be paid troublemakers.

[David Pakman]

Mr. President, you appear to say that the governor and the mayor paid them. Do you believe that the governor and the mayor paid the agitators?

[Vincent Scardina]

No, I don't say the governor of the mayor, I said somebody spying them, I think. And if they're not, they're just troublemakers. What can I tell you?

[David Pakman]

But you know, the funniest part about this and the saddest part about this is how delusional Trump must be. Because the obvious question is why would anyone need to be paid? Why would anyone demand payment? Trump has it, by the way. It's like a three block radius. So it's not. If you're going to pay people, you would get more people. Trump has unleashed ICE raids in immigrant communities. Stephen Miller's directing agents to stake out seven elevens and Home Depots, deploying hundreds of active duty Marines and thousands of active of National Guard with no rules of engagement to a US City when there are mostly peaceful protesters. Why would anyone demand money to protest that? There are 21 million immigrants living in the U.S. nearly 4 million people live in L. A actually. Is that right? I want to make sure Los Angeles population. Yeah, okay, so my memory was right. About 4 million people live in L. A. When good people see ice dragging people out of their neighborhoods without warrants or even id, of course, people are in the streets. Trump's throwing himself a military parade for his birthday. So people are angry because they're awake. The lie about these must be paid protesters has a long history. Trump used it in 2020 when Americans protesting the murder of George Floyd. He said, these are paid thugs. He said protesters were bussed into the White House when people demonstrated outside Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation hearings. He said that this is Soros funded opposition or Republicans did anyway when women marched after Trump's election in 2017, they must also have been paid. It's never been proven and it doesn't seem to be true, but it's always useful because if protest is a paycheck, it doesn't count. It's not real democracy. You're just manipulating according to the people in power. So the goal here is delegitimize it, make it. Even though you turn on your TV and you go, wow, people seem really upset. You believe that they're only there because they're getting paid. All of a sudden they're not as legitimate. And this is the authoritarian logic. And what's dangerous is that it's the same framing that authoritarians use to justify force. If the protests aren't real, if they're bought and staged by enemies, then the state is justified in cracking down. And that's how you go from they're being paid to they are foreign agitators to they are terrorists to send in the troops. Now, of course, Trump skipped a few steps in sending in the troops this week. So that's the slope we're on. We're not guessing. It's happened in country after country in the 20th century, even in the 21st. And what this reveals is fear. Trump's insistence that these protests must be fake reveals he doesn't want to acknowledge that Americans genuinely oppose him. He can't face that reality. People are willing to risk getting arrested to show that they don't like what Trump is doing. People are willing to risk getting injured or surveilled to show that they're going to stand up to him. So instead he goes, these people must be getting paid. That's all it is. The alternative is too scary for Trump because the alternative is that people genuinely don't like him. And we know that for Trump, that's one of the scariest things. So he ends up using military force, he ends up using ice, he ends up using this increasingly fascist spectacle to control the country. And at least some people are saying no. At the same time, let's not overstate the scope of these protests, which in Los Angeles at least were limited to just a flu few block radius. Overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly peaceful, constitutionally protected, and even a reporter getting hit with a rubber bullet. CNN's Jason Carroll getting detained. JASON Carroll, SECURITY getting arrested. And this is all part of what is clearly a bigger plan, probably to deploy troops to more than just Los Angeles. My prediction is we see troops in at least some additional cities. Let me know what you think. Info@david pakman.com Send me an email. Things are still expensive in this economy. Americans are feeling it. But one thing that doesn't have to cost a lot anymore is a quality hearing aid. Our sponsor, MD Hearing, makes high quality, easy to use. Rechargeable hearing aids with exceptional sound quality that are personalized to your hearing profile. And MD Hearing just made their Neo rechargeable digital hearing aids. Only $297 a pair, less than 10% of the prices of typical hearing aids from brick and mortar hearing clinics. The NEO fits inside your ear. No one will even know it's there. Plus, Maryland Hearing just launched the NEO xs, Maryland Hearing's smallest hearing aid ever. I have a family friend who's been using MD Hearing for years. She loves it, loves how she can get expert advice any time from MD Hearing's audiologist, for example, if she needs help adjusting it. Maryland Hearing was founded by an ENT surgeon who saw how many of his patients needed hearing aids and couldn't afford them. Terrible. He made it his mission to develop a quality hearing aid that anybody could afford. Go to shop MD Hearing dotcom. Use the code PACMAN to get a pair of hearing aids for just $297. Plus you'll get an extra charging case for free. That's shop mdhearing.com use code PACMAN to get a pair for just $297 with a free charging case. The link is in the podcast notes. Your personal data is everywhere and you might not even know people. Search sites and data brokers are quietly publishing your name, address, number, even things like property records, political views. It is not just creepy, it's dangerous. Because scammers and fraudsters and shady marketers can use this information every day. Our sponsor Incogni solves the problem for you. Incogni contacts the data broker sites on your behalf and forces them to delete your data. The data brokers are legally obligated to to comply and Incogni handles the entire process for you. Incogni is now taking this even further with their custom removals feature included in the unlimited plan. They've got their 250 plus sites where removal is automated. But if you find your information anywhere else, you can custom submit that and they will have it removed manually. This is serious protection. Using Incogni can cut way down on the spam calls and the messages that you get. Fewer risks, more control over your identity. Try it risk free for 30 days and get 60% off an annual plan when you go to incogni.com/pacman. That's incogni.com/pacMan for 60% off. The link is in the podcast notes. All right, much requested. Let's talk about the left and young men. A whole bunch of people freaking out about young men. And I think that for once it is not wrong to be panicking a little bit about the left and winning back young men. After the 2024 election, the numbers were brutal. A majority of 18 to 29 year old men voted Republican. Not just white guys. Black and Latino men shifted right? And now the party is trying to figure out what happened and how to fix it. And in the midst of figuring out what the plan is, we Learned about this $20 million campaign to study masculinity. Run ads inside of video games, do focus groups, digital outreach, the classic maybe we need a left wing Rogan, maybe we need a left wing Andrew Tate sort of thing. I don't believe any of that stuff is going to Work because the problem isn't that young men are, you know, watching the wrong YouTubers. The problem is they don't believe the Democratic Party gives a damn about them. And a bunch of cringe outreach is simply not going to fix that because Democrats keep getting this wrong. Sometimes they ignore men in certain situations. I guess I would say sometimes they try to pander in awkward sort of corporate ways that don't work. And young men I don't see as asking for pity and I don't even think they're asking to be the focus. I think they're trying to figure out where they fit in. Many are broke, many are stuck in dead end jobs, can't buy a home. They feel like nobody's talking to them except right wing grifters blaming women and immigrants. And that's garbage. We know that that's garbage. But it at least attempts to address directly how they feel. And what we often see from the left is, you know, treating young men like radioactive material, afraid to go near them, afraid to say anything real, speaking in generalities and platitudes, and then they end up shocked when it doesn't work. So let me go through what I believe would actually work. Number one, talk to young men like they're human beings rather than a PR problem that needs to be solved. Don't guilt them, don't tiptoe around them. Just be honest. Hey, listen, a lot of stuff sucks right now. You're not imagining that that part is real. The path you were promised doesn't exist. We're not going to feed you lies about masculinity and we're not going to blame immigrants. We're going to fight to give you a future that's not miserable. And we do that with economic policy and with a lot of other stuff. Okay. Number two, let's not treat masculinity like a disease. Not every young man who lifts weights and wants to lead a family is a threat. There's nothing wrong with ambition, there's nothing wrong with strength. But what matters is what you do with it. Democrats should be saying, if you want to build something that's great, let's build a world that works for everybody. If you want to use masculinity to raise people up rather than to put them down, that's awesome. Let's do that together. The point here is there are ways not to shame young male instincts, but direct them towards a better outlet. Number three, this is critical. Frame progressive policies as power moves. Like forget the safety net language, talk about power. You want freedom, how about not being buried by debt or having to stay in a job you hate just to keep health care, don't rely on your boss for health insurance sort of message. How about not wasting your life in a bullshit job just to survive? So the goal shouldn't be to out macho the right, but you can win on the question of who's actually going to give you control over your life, which is a very masculine thing. Masculine thing to have. Number four, I would cut the micro targeting. You know, young men, I believe, can smell it when you're messaging at them. So I wouldn't slice things into identity groups and, you know, try to appeal to 16 different demographics with 16 different taglines. Talk about freedom, dignity, control, the sorts of values that people care about. Number five, there need to be some people who can be amplified as, as examples. I wish that I had more examples. One is like a Scott Galloway type speaking to what young men are going through. Loneliness, lack of direction, economic failure, but doing it in a way that's grounded and not preachy and pointing out that what Democrats are offering is better than what Republicans are offering. I don't think Democrats need to find the next Galloway, but there needs to be, you know, the amplification of people who are already kind of doing that thing and then finally show up in the spaces where young men are. So, yeah, I mean, you got to be on YouTube, Discord, Twitch, don't do it. Copying the rights tactics, but make sure that someone is showing up in the spaces and the conversations. Just being on MSNBC clips is not going to win anybody over. You need content that meets people where they are. It doesn't have to be super complicated. You know, young men don't need to be saved. They just want a future that's not garbage and they want a political party that understands that. So I don't believe that the answer is is spending 20 million to then create a hip outreach campaign or, you know, a progressive Andrew Tate. The answer is showing up with real policies, real values, real language that doesn't treat young men like idiots or enemies, and actually showing that, you know, it's not really very masculine or alpha to put other people down. It's actually a sign of weakness, it's a sign of insecurity. The secure, masculine, macho alpha is going to bring people up, is going to work to improve his community, etc. So I believe young men are listening. They're trying to listen to what they can find. If Democrats are like whispering or talking down to them, I think young men are going to keep walking away. There's a short clip that's been making the rounds showing a CNN reporter questioning DHS official Trisha McLaughlin. And it has to do with really what is one of the core legal questions around what we've seen in Los Angeles this week? And that question is, did what was the mechanism through which troops ended up in Los Angeles? Was it issued involving the governor of California as the law requires, or was it issued only by the President? Trisha McLaughlin gives an answer. Finally, again, Section 12406 says that orders for these purposes shall be issued through the Governor's of the states. Were these orders issued through Governor Gavin Newsom?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

They're issued by the President of the United States who saw that our ICE enforcement officers, that our law enforcement were being pummeled by rocks, they were being attacked, Molotov cocktails being thrown at them, American cities, Los Angeles citizens being put at risk. That's real leadership to actually put more resources on the ground to, to make sure that things don't spiral farther out of control and no lives are lost.

[David Pakman]

All right, Trisha McLaughlin. Not exactly an answer other than it was Trump. OK, so let's, I'm going to give you my, my, my belief here is that these orders issued entirely by Trump may well violate the law. I'm not a lawyer. This is based on the lawyers I've spoken to and what they have told me in the research I've done. Let's get to the key legal question. When can a president send troops into a state? The answer isn't never. Sometimes they can. It's a common question, especially during crises. Can the president just order federal troops into any state? The answer is usually not. But there are exceptions. The main rule against using the military as a police force in the US Is the Posse Comitatus Act. This generally says Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines and Space Force can't do any civilian law enforcement within the country. You've got to keep the military separate from policing. When troops can be deployed. There are some exceptions when troops can't can be deployed. Includes the Insurrection Act. This is the most significant exception and it says the president can unilaterally deploy troops. If a state asks for help, of course. Or to enforce federal laws or rights if there is major unrest or violence in a state that's preventing federal laws from being enforced, or if people's constitutional rights are being violated and the state can't or won't fix it, which is not the scenario in California. In those cases, the president might act even without a state request. Historically, it's been used to enforce civil rights. Like during school desegregation, kids were going to prevent, I'm sorry, people, protesters were going to prevent black kids from going to school, which the law said they are allowed to do. And so the federal troops were sent in for protecting federal property. The president can use troops to protect federal buildings and land and personnel specifically. They can't go beyond that in circumstances of natural, natural disaster. This is under the Stafford Act. They wouldn't really be acting as police is the thing, but they can provide support, delivering supplies, offering medical aid, helping with logistics. That can be done simply at the request at the institution of the president. But it almost always is happening at the request of a state governor. And then with the National Guard, it gets a little bit tricky. National Guard is unique because it's controlled by the state governor. Governors can deploy their state's guard for emergencies, protests and disasters. And, and the Posse Commentators act usually does not apply in that role. However, the president can federalize National Guard units, bringing them under federal control. Once federalized, they operate like regular federal troops, subject to the same rule. So those are the only exceptions. The MAGA right is arguing that a bunch of these requirements were met. They are saying ice, which is enforcing federal law, wasn't able to do it due to the protesters. That justifies sending in the troops. Protesters were endangering, endangering federal property. That justifies sending in the troops. The National Guard is rightly federalized, federalized because of the protests. And therefore we were justified in Trump doing what, what he did. That's their argument. I am not convinced at this point in time that that is true. Sending federal troops into a state is a big deal. Trump seemingly did it on a whim between golf holes and the point of the law. The intention of the founders was keep the military out of local law enforcement, but it makes some exceptions. I do not believe the circumstances meet those exceptions. Trump exceptions. Trump believes that it does. I will leave it to you. Now, nearly a week into this thing, what do you believe about the legality of what Donald Trump did with the National Guard as well as with Marines? Let me know at info@david pakman.com you say you'll learn a new language every year, but few of us actually follow through. That's why I always recommend Babel in. It's the app that finally made language learning stick for me this year. I've got a trip to France planned. I've already started brushing up using Babble's 10 minute lessons. The app is built around real life conversations, not games or gimmicks. So I'm learning exactly what I actually need to know when I land. I've even been using Babel's speech recognition technology to improve my pronunciation. Super helpful. Babble is designed by over 200 language experts and proven studies from places like Yale and Michigan State. There's a study that found that using babble just 15 hours is like a full college semester of a language. They offer 14 languages and more than 16 million people have used it. They've got a 20 day money back guarantee so it is risk free to try. Here's a special limited time deal for my audience right now. Get up to 6 60% off your Babel subscription, but only for my audience at babel.com/pacman get up to 60% off at babel.com/pacMan spelled b a b b el.com/pacman rules and restrictions may apply. The link is in the podcast notes all right, let's get into Friday feedback for the week. On Friday we'll go through the email comments on various platforms, forms, reactions, direct messages, the whole lot of it. You can always email info@david pakman.com if you have a message you would like to submit. I want to start today with a bigger picture sort of issue that is facing the show right now and I'm going to give you some example messages first and then I'll kind of tell you where my head is at. Zahan Comedy on Instagram said David, you and Bernie Sanders are the only two people who give me a hope for America. Keep pushing the truth and hopefully people will open their eyes and ears. Ok, Beautiful message, incredibly kind. I love it. Here's another one from Marianne who said Dave's firing on all cylinders lately. Love David's prescient June 6 analysis of MAGA being about belonging. Also his later observation about the right's willingness to debate after not watching for a couple weeks. Glad to see him firing on all cylinders. Love it. Thank you so much. Another one. HH Cony I'm building to something. Stick with me. Okay, HH Cony on YouTube says thank you David for doing your job and showing day after day this BS to the world. Another positive comment and I like it. However you knew it was coming. Okay, Celestial reach says the David Pakman show isn't really doing well where you're by the way, it's atrocious spelling and grammar. Let's keep to the core of the message. You're reporting yesterday's news, which is unfortunate because you're the most substantial creator on the left. You don't focus on the drama as much like Adam and Luke. Can you consider doing a livestream once a day? Even 20 minutes of that day's news doesn't have to be as clean and edited. Just an and idea to try. Keep up the work. Okay, a criticism that we are publishing news and it's too late. Okay. Chris on Instagram says you give only conjecture and lopsided in nature reporting. It's sad. I hope you learn a more mature version of fact reporting and honest, unedited journalism. Okay, so another criticism here. So let me big picture it, okay? The audience is as big today as it has ever been. And so the position that we find ourselves in all the time is that the bigger the audience gets, the more opinions there will be as to what the show should be. We get emails from people all the time right now saying, david, you're not being alarmist enough about the authoritarian slide of this administration. You need to be louder and scream and be more passionate and okay, the other side, David, you're being too alarmist. You're being too hyperbolic about the threat of authoritarianism. This stuff is really not that bad. You need to tone it down. Actually, we get people who write and say, david, could you do the show later in the day so by the time you publish it, the news is less stale and it can be more breaking news. And of course, we are not a breaking news show. And even if we record the show later, we're always going to miss something because there's 24 hours between shows. So I've explained it. It doesn't really matter when we produce the show because it will always be the case that something will seem stale by the time all the clips publish. Okay, here's the most important thing. The show has to be the stories I feel like talking about in the way I feel like talking about them. Now. You might say, well, but David, we think you should be talking exclusively about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, or why not make it a foreign policy show? Or interview activists every day, or what if the show is anything other than just what I feel like making it, number one, it's going to be disingenuous. It's not going to feel genuine. And number two, we just have a different problem than corporate media with seven layers of editors and producers, which is all of a sudden I'm taking direction from other people as to what the show should be. Now, of course, when I hear from my audience, this particular story is incredibly important. And if I have something unique to say about it. I consider that and I say, well, that that is something to consider. But fundamentally, if this show just isn't what you would like it to be, there are other shows that maybe are that Sometimes people say you need to do deeper analysis of bills. Well, sometimes I do. Last week I did an analysis of a bill that I didn't think was getting enough coverage. But there are shows that just look at congressional bills. That's the show for congressional bills. Not this one or David, I don't like that you deal with only domestic issues. I want it to be Ukraine and Gaza. Well, there are shows that do that. I assume it's not this show. So here's the most important thing. I think in this environment, we're trying to build an ecosystem here, okay? No one show can be everything to everybody and no show is going to be liked by everybody. I'm aware that there are people who were pulled into the political space by me, but now that their interests are more defined as either foreign policy or activism or education, they've moved on to other shows. That's ok. What we want is to keep growing overall and keep growing the ecosystem. So my message here is we're always working to make the show as good as we can. We're always meeting the team to talk about how can we improve this, how can we improve that. If the show is not what you want it to be, of course, let us know what it is you want. But understand that there are other shows that maybe are the show you're looking for and that's also okay. But with our community, we're going to keep doing the best to make it a genuine show that reflects what I'm paying attention to, what I'm thinking about, etc. And the one change we are going to be making because we think that this is something we can do with only upside, we are looking at moving to earlier in the day, what is now like the 9pm YouTube video show, the full hour show. That's at 9pm we're going to move that to earlier in the day. So it's still not a breaking news show. It's always going to be the case that some stuff is on the next show. But we think that we can move the 9pm show up like two to three hours. More people will be able to get it for their commute home. More people will be able to have it when they're in the gym after work. So I think that that just has upside. More information about that upcoming. All right, let's get to a couple of other messages. Brian Myers says, since when is your dumb ass opposed to more spending? If Dems were in charge, they'd be spending even more and you'd be cheering it, calling it a monumental investment. Sit down, Gumby. So here's the deal. I've criticized wasteful spending under both parties. The real question is, what is the money for and does it help people? Food stamps are one of the most economically stimulative government spending programs. When you give people food stamps, it gets multiplied into the economy through what we call an economic multiplier, and it does a lot of good. In addition to getting people food who need food, on the other hand, lowering the top tax rate for the richest Americans, money that is disproportionately just put in banks, which banks can loan out. The multiplier isn't zero, but it is way less economically stimulative. So for me, it's never about I'm opposed to more spending or I'm for more spending. When we're talking about programs that help people in economically stimulative ways, I'm for it. When we're on random spending, on just replacing bombs that we already have too many of that will never use, and feeding the military industrial complex like a bottomless pit. Yeah, I'm against that. And as as many of you may know, my instinct is not let's solve a problem by raising taxes. My instinct is not let's solve a problem by just spending more. Sometimes that's the solution, but we want to evaluate that. And so, oh, I'm for or against spending. It's like, am I for or against screwdrivers? It's like, what are we trying to do? You know, If I'm trying to write a book, the screwdriver is not super useful. If I'm trying to screw in screws, then it is. All right, Job K Flow says cough douche. You may be one of the most unintelligent. What do you call yourselves again? Contributors. The way that you just presented that and then listening to it. We are not even close to each other. First of all, which, why don't you just say, hey, I'm going to play this video and I want you to think this, this. But I'm lying. So here we go. Where do you hear this? You know, Job K Flow, I'm not sure what your first language is, although I actually know it's English. It's just an atrocity. I'm not totally sure what you're saying. I don't Believe this is the right show for you. Okay, that's my instinct. I don't. Some comments leave me speechless. This is almost poetic in its chaos and I don't think there's anything I can say that's going to make this the right show for you. All right. T.R. says this is good stuff. I like this. You cannot be a cold blooded capitalist and a genuine progressive capitalism is literally killing people the world over. You have to actively reject the profit motive and efficiency drive in many cases to best serve society's needs. I'm going to answer this as if it's addressed to me. I don't know that when they say you, I don't know if they mean one cannot or David, you can't. I do consider myself a capitalist, but not a cold blooded capitalist. It is very fair to say that there is a tension between participating in a system and criticizing it. Okay, I don't claim to have a perfect answer. What I can tell you is my viewpoint is that well regulated forms of capitalism like what I write about in my book that exists in Denmark, Sweden and other countries. Oh, it's, it's so cliche. Well, they're good examples for a reason. What exists there right now is the most evidence based, best form of government that I have studied. Now if someone wants to bring to me examples of a socialist organization, an anarcho capitalist organization, communism, and you say here's evidence that it's a better, that you get better outcomes, I'm willing to examine that. Sometimes when I say that people will go, well, we don't have any good examples because all of the ones that we have were perverted or messed up. Like for example the Soviet Union and this and that. Okay, well but, so then someone should try the experiment. But to say that in some way I am the cold blooded capitalist while claiming to be a progressive is very much untrue. The way I would like to go is from where the US is now, which I believe is a too underregulated form of capitalism in the direction of something like what we see in northern Europe. And I think that the best empirical case I can make is for that. That's where I am. And I welcome other views and dissenting opinions. All right, remember that we will be relaunching and totally rejiggering our substack. And I'm going to tell you about that soon. But get on my mailing list just so you're ready. You can email info@david pakman.com say David, please put me on that newsletter or sign yourself up@david pakman.substack.com we have a phenomenal bonus show today. We have a phenomenal week of shows coming up next week. So thank you so much for joining me this morning week and I'll see you soon.

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