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The David Pakman Show
6/23/25: Iran situation explodes, administration goes completely unhinged
01:03:49
-- On the Show: -- California Governor Gavin Newsom joins David to discuss the deployment of federal troops to California by Donald Trump, Trump's apparently memory issues, and much more... — Trump slurs through a chaotic announcement that he...
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- [00:08]
David Pakman
Welcome to the show. So much to talk about. I hope that if you are in one of the areas of the country plagued by the heat wave that the air conditioning is working. If you see me glistening, it is not flop sweat, it's that the air conditioning is trickling out very quietly like, like Donald Trump likes to say. But it is very, very hot. And we have extraordinary, arguably unprecedented circumstances. I don't know that entering a war has ever been announced on troth Central, but Donald Trump announcing first that the US has joined the campaign against Iran on truth Social quote. We have completed our very successful attack on the three nuclear sites in Iran, including Fordo, Netanz and Esfahan. All planes are now outside of Iran airspace. A full payload of bombs was dropped on the primary site, Fordo. All planes are safely on their way home. Congratulations to our great American warriors. There is not another military in the world that could have done this. Now is the time for peace. Thank you for your attention to this matter. It is definitely weird to bomb a country and then go, this is the time for peace. Now that we have completed our bombing, it is obviously the time for peace. Donald Trump holding a 10pm Eastern address on the same day to announce that it is time for peace. Some very risky pronunciations here. You'll also notice Trump slurring. He seemed disoriented during this entire thing. At one point he says something like, nugular and Dredgeman. Nugular and Dredgeman. Nuclear proliferation. Right? And then he says, anyway, let's, let's listen to it.
- [02:09]
Donald Trump
A short time ago, the US military carried out massive precision strikes on the three key nuclear facilities in the Iranian regime. Fordeau, Natanz and Esfahan. Everybody heard those names for years as they built this horribly destructive enterprise. Our objective was the destruction of Iran's nuclear enrichment, Iran's nuclear enrichment capacity and a stop to the nuclear threat posed by the world's number one state sponsor of terror, terror. Tonight I can report to the world that the strikes were a spectacular military success. Iran's key nuclear enrichment facilities have been completely and totally obliterated.
- [03:01]
David Pakman
Now, it's unclear that that is true. We will get to that later. Do the details matter? I think they do. You can evaluate what Iran is doing. You can evaluate what the United States is doing, what Israel is doing, all of the claims. But also when you say we've totally destroyed it, there are now reports that the nuclear material had already been moved and that while Fordo was damaged, it was not destroyed. What details? Right. Who cares?
- [03:27]
Donald Trump
Iran, the bully of the Middle east must now make peace. If they do not, future attacks will be far greater and a lot easier.
- [03:36]
David Pakman
This is like horror comedy, right? A president announcing military action that he launched lacking all congressional approval, while slurring and struggling to read and saying, now that I've bombed you, you'd better make peace. Now is the time for peace. Trump continued with the histrionics, saying either peace or tragedy is coming here for Iran.
- [04:04]
Donald Trump
With all of that being said, this cannot continue. There will be either peace or there will be tragedy for Iran far greater than we have witnessed over the last eight days. Remember, there are many targets left. Tonight's was the most difficult of them all, by far, and perhaps the most lethal. But if peace does not come quickly, we will go after the those other targets with precision, speed, and skill. Most of them can be taken out in a matter of minutes. There's no military in the world that could have done what we did tonight. Not even close. There has never been a military that could do what took place just a little while ago.
- [04:48]
David Pakman
And as strange as it is to announce that bombing makes this now the time for peace. One of the most dangerous, bizarre, and strange parts of this was when Donald Trump said, we love you, God. And many seeing this appeal to divine intervention almost from Donald Trump, who of course, only pretends to be religious. Actually hard to find a less religious person than Trump concerning in many ways that he is now almost doing this as a. This was. This was directed by God, in particular.
- [05:24]
Donald Trump
God. I want to just say, we love you, God, and we love you, God. We love our great military. Protect them. God bless the Middle East, God bless Israel, and God bless America. Thank you very much. Thank you.
- [05:41]
David Pakman
And God bless the United States. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone take the name of God in vain so shamelessly. And yet I think a lot of Christians are praising Trump for this. Just totally, totally shameful. So just as a reminder, at Donald Trump's inauguration, he said that he is going to be the guy who not only ends wars, but even avoids getting us into some wars. This was why, I guess, some people voted for Trump.
- [06:18]
Donald Trump
Like, in 2017, we will again, again build the strongest military the world has ever seen. We will measure our success not only by the battles we win, but also by the wars that we end and perhaps most importantly, the wars we never get into.
- [06:35]
Gavin Newsom
Right.
- [06:39]
David Pakman
Surprise. And remember when Donald Trump said the following about Barack Obama and Iran? Obama, right.
- [06:48]
Donald Trump
Our president will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate he's weak and he's ineffective. So the only way he figures that he's going to get reelected and as sure as you're sitting there, is to start a war with Iran. Now, I'm more militant and more militaristic than the president. I believe in strength. But to start a war in order to get elected, and I believe that's going to happen, would be an outrage. Our president will.
- [07:20]
David Pakman
There you go. And so this is where we find ourselves today. So we're going to go through each part of this, going from no new wars to maybe many new wars. We will talk about the objective of this, the increased discussion of regime change, and then we will also talk about if progressive social democrats like me apply our principles and values to the situation, what do we get? Where do we land? So it's a very busy show. Let's now talk about the regime change aspect of this. You all know that Donald Trump ran back in 2016 promising no more endless wars. He called Iraq a mistake retrospectively, even though at the time he said, yes, I would have gone in. He claimed he would end nation building. He wouldn't do regime change wars. He branded himself as the anti war Republican. I've played so many clips for you showing you this. Well, here we are in 2025, and that same anti war Trump is now openly tweeting about regime change in Iran. It started as, oh, these are just isolated bombings on the nuclear facilities. But now it is slowly starting to become about regime change. Not subtly, not because someone leaked it, because of what Trump Post posted to his own Truth Social account where he put, quote, it's not politically correct to use the term regime change, but if the current Iranian regime is unable to make Iran great again, why wouldn't there be a regime change mega meaning make Iran great again. If a foreign government doesn't align with Donald Trump's version of greatness, then Trump is saying, of course it should be overthrown. This is not diplomacy. This is not an anti war president. These are imperial delusions at the end of the day. And it's not just Trump. Look at the people cheering him on. Here is Kayleigh McEnany, now a Fox News host. She used to be his press secretary during the first term. She says the following about other authoritarians around the world.
- [09:34]
Kayleigh McEnany
Precisely. Every dictator in the world is on notice now.
- [09:38]
David Pakman
Every dictator in the world is on notice. It's not just about regime change in Iran. Every dictator around the world is on notice. So this is bifurcatedly cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. For two reasons. Number one, the non regime change, non endless war, non Middle east entanglements guy is shifting into, yes, regime change in Iran. And we are told other dictators around the world should also be on notice. Trump might even start more wars, from no new wars to every damn new war we can think of. But the other dictators should be on notice. Comment from Kelly is kind of bullshit because Trump's not going to do anything with Kim Jong Un, a dictator. They send each other love letters. Trump's not going to do anything with Vladimir Putin, a dictator, because he's enamored with Putin. Right? So Trump doesn't even hate dictators. He hates dictators who aren't on his team. And then we get to when you. It's hard to think of a guy who likes regime change wars more than John Bolton, who Donald Trump fired, by the way, but who somehow now back in the orbit saying regime change. I like that. Despite all of the recent criticisms of Trump from Bolton, Bolton's like this. I could get behind. So look, they didn't accomplish everything in one night. What a surprise. There's still a lot to do, but this is the right thing. And the next step, as you also asked about, is regime change. And I note that President Trump is moving apparently in the right direction on that too, given his latest tweet. Of course, yeah, in your. Of course I support regime change, war in Iran. You know, if, if you believe that your leader Trump is an isolationist and then John Bolton is praising him, you've got to reconsider whether that's actually an isolationist. So we are going to get later, as I said, into what should the progressive perspective be on this? I'm an anti authoritarian progressive social democrat. Okay. I'm against dictators, I'm against the Iranian regime, but the US as a global purveyor of that regime change, not sustainable, not logical, not common sense. And it rarely works. It really does have to come from within. So it's important to consider that after all of the Trump is anti war stuff went on and Tulsi told us this, this is really the guy. This is the guy after all of it. A lot of the same voices that supported and brought to us the Iraq war are now saying we kind of like what Trump is doing. That is a big red flag. And I just want to say it again. And we're going to. I am against the Iranian regime. I'm against dictators. I support democratic movements led by the people of Iran. That's not what we have here. This is not organic. This, this is the US trying to play global policemen again with no strategy, no authorization from Congress and no public discussion. The promise from Trump was no new wars. That was the promise. And what we're getting is escalation with Iran, with Yemen, militias in different parts of the world, potentially with nuclear armed adversaries China or Russia. And if the spiral continues. So the guy who said he would end the forever wars and not get us into them is rebranding them. This is mega make Iran great again, not sustainable or logical, not common sense foreign policy. And we are slowly marching right back to the George W. Bush type doctrine that Trump claimed to oppose. Now, what's Caroline Levitt saying about this? Publicly? Slowly but surely, over 48 hours, we have come to realize that the Iran bombing is about regime change. It is about regime change. Donald Trump putting out on Truth Social after a lot of people around him were saying, this is definitely not about regime change. Trump going, why wouldn't we want regime change? Regime change, of course we do. And then we get to Donald Trump's White House press secretary, Caroline Levitt this morning on Fox News. And, and she very casually, almost incidentally, gives away the actual goal of Donald Trump's strike on Iranian nuclear facilities. Because for days Trump world has been insisting this is not about regime change. That's not what this is about. This isn't about getting into a war. It's simply prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. But now Trump goes, yeah, I mean, listen, why not? Regime change, sure. And then here is Caroline Levitt and listen to what she has to say.
- [14:25]
Gavin Newsom
So the President tweeted out the next day, and I agree with you, by the way, and I think most everyone watching does says it's not politically correct to use the term regime change. But if the current Iranian regime is unable to make Iran great again, why wouldn't there be a regime change? Does he think we should do that? Is he asking the Iranian people to do that? What's he saying there?
- [14:47]
Caroline Levitt
The President believes the Iranian people can control their own destiny. And what he said last night makes complete sense. If the Iranian regime refuses to come to a peaceful diplomatic solution, which the President is still interested in engaging in, by the way, why shouldn't the Iranian people take away the power of this incredibly violent regime that has been suppressing them for decades? And so our posture has not changed. Our, our military posture has not changed. These were decisive precision strikes that were successful on Saturday evening. But the President is just simply raising a good question that many people around the world are Asking.
- [15:29]
David Pakman
She also is now on board. Why wouldn't we change this terrible regime? So Caroline Levitt is not talking about deterrence. She's not talking about containment. She says yes, toppling the government. And she's not saying it in the future tense. She's talking about it like, this is what we're going to do right now, soon. Why wouldn't we do it? So this confirms what all of us suspected. This was always about regime change. Mag has been trying to thread the needle here. Trump doesn't want to look like a warmonger. So they're going with this old playbook. It's a surgical act. We're reluctantly participating. And then you start moving the goalposts. Well, if someone did regime change, well, why wouldn't we support regime change? Why don't we just do the thing? Why don't we do it ourselves? The anti war Republican Trump of 2016 who said Bush lied us into the Iraq war is now doing his own version. One more clip here from Caroline Lovett.
- [16:23]
Caroline Levitt
And nobody knows what it means to, to accomplish peace through strength better than President Trump. He, he is the one who came up with that motto and that foreign policy doctrine, and he successfully ended implemented it in his first term. And this is one of many steps he is taking.
- [16:40]
David Pakman
And of course, Donald Trump did not come up with the slogan peace through strength. Reagan used it. I don't know if Reagan invented it, but that was like 50 years ago. It's been in use for decades. And Trump, of course, is the guy who thinks he discovered stealth planes or whatever, figured out that they're invisible to the naked eye. So the real story here is it's not just a sloppy press secretary. This is Trump's second term foreign policy, a sort of Frankenstein's monster of neocon rhetoric. Fox nationalism blended together with unchecked executive power. And it's out in the open, not about strength, not about peace. It's about power and the willingness to use it in ways that are going to drag us right back into the same Bush era foreign policy disasters that, that Donald Trump pretended to oppose. You know, Trump said he was against abortion when he became an elected official, but we don't believe it. And Trump said he was religious when he became a politician, even though we know that he's not. And Trump said that he's against regime change, wars and against the Bush doctrine type neoconservative foreign policy. And it took a decade, but we're quickly figuring out that he's not. After the break, what do progressive values tell us about what's going on. Make sure you're subscribed to the YouTube channel at YouTube.com/the David Pakman Show One of our sponsors today is CB Distillery who millions of people turn to for safe potent CBD. CB Distillery was founded in 2016 by a group of Colorado natives who believed people have a right to high quality, fairly priced US grown hemp derived CBD products. CB Distillery has targeted formulations meant for sleep, stress, mood, focus, pain. They even have CBD for pets. All made with the highest quality clean ingredients. No fillers, just premium CBD. 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All right, let's now talk about the progressive view on what's happening In Iran, as we all now know, Donald Trump bombed Iran's nuclear facilities. No congressional vote, no public debate, no heads up to Democratic leadership. And MAGA has been split right down the middle. Some Trump supporters are cheering this on like it's a video game that they love. Others, you know, Tucker Carlson, these sorts of folks, they're furious because Trump said that he was anti war, even though many of us were smart enough never to fall for it. Trump said he would end the forever wars. He said it would be America first. We all knew it was a show. Trump was never anti war. He was anti accountability, that's for sure. He liked the optics of criticizing the Iraq war. But when it comes to actual power, Trump's very happy to use it however he wants without permission and with no plan. But that's the right. I'm on the left. Much of my audience is on the left. So what I want to talk about is what this looks like, from my view, a progressive, anti authoritarian perspective. Those are my political views. I don't support Iran's regime, but I also don't support Trump's bombing. And if that sounds like a contradiction, it's not. It's called having principles. I oppose Trump's foreign policy and what he did this weekend. In principle, you don't fight authoritarianism by copying it. And that's what the bombing was. No imminent threat, no intelligence briefing for Congress. No proof of a ticking clock. Trump's own Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard recently said Iran is not close to a bomb. We've been told Iran is close to a bomb for decades. Okay? I have no doubt Iran wants a bomb. I have no doubt that Iran having a bomb would be scary. But I struggle, based on the evidence, to believe that they were close, such that it enabled Trump to legally do this with no authorization for Congress. Trump didn't even inform Democrats, despite this being an act of war against a sovereign country. And remember that this isn't just about following the rules. We also want to prevent abuse. When we say no one gets to unilaterally start wars, that has to include the president. Once you normalize that, you're no longer defending democracy. You're basically handing over keys to an empire. I believe that bombing Iran strategically helps the regime. It lets them point to the United States as the enemy. It silences internal dissent against the brutal Iranian regime and. And turns the conversation into, hey, national defense. It undermines the Iranian protesters who don't want Western intervention. They want to build change from within. So Trump's Actions are a disaster. But that gets us to the second half of the equation again. I am a progressive, anti authoritarian social democrat, so of course I vehemently oppose Iran's regime. Iran is a repressive, anti democratic rights violating theocracy. It violates just about every value that I hold. They jail women for showing their hair. They enforce mandatory body covering laws and punish those who resist. Of course I'm against that. LGBTQ + Iranians face the death penalty. That some people are executed simply for existing same sex sexual activity is illegal. It's punishable by death under the country's penal code. Of course I'm against that. Peaceful protesters in Iran are met with bullets and batons and the government shuts down the Internet, rounds up students, vanishes, dissidents. By the way, that sounding familiar to anybody? Iran funds militias across the region and it exports its brutal authoritarian model. They rig elections, they crush secular movements. They run a state built on surveillance and religious law and propaganda. Of course, I vehemently oppose that regime. And Iran is also one of the few countries that has spent decades threatening the existence of another country. In this case, Israel. Whatever you think about Israel, no progressive can support Iran's threats to wipe countries off the map. So I'm not neutral about Iran. It's an authoritarian regime and every progressive should oppose it. Not just because of what it does abroad, but what it does domestically, how it treats its people. So you can simultaneously oppose Iran's regime unequivocally because you're a progressive and oppose Donald Trump's bombing for the exact same reason, because you're an anti authoritarian, pro democracy progressive. Both are forms of authoritarianism. What Trump is doing is authoritarian. Iran's regime is authoritarian. I'm an anti authoritarian and I'm against both. So I do think it's important in this context just for progressives to really sort of understand that that's not a contradiction. It's saying, what are my values? Let me apply them to what Trump is doing. Well, that's wrong. Let me apply them to what Iran is doing and what Iran is. That's also wrong. That has to be. Okay, all right. This is pretty wild, even by Fox News standards. Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense, was asked in the aftermath of Donald Trump's bombing of Iran, could Iran team up with North Korea and China to retaliate against the United States together? And Pete Hegseth goes, it's possible, but that would be because of Joe Biden. Iran and North Korea are cooperating on nuclear and missile development. Do you think there is a possibility that Iran, North Korea, and other forces such as China will join forces to retire against the United States?
- [27:13]
Pete Hegseth
Well, unfortunately, because of the policies under the previous administration, we drove those countries together, and ultimately, that creates a challenging environment for this particular operation. The focus is on Iran and Iranian nuclear capabilities. That's our focus here, is to not just say that they can't have.
- [27:32]
David Pakman
But. All right, so it's, it's, it's, it's Biden's fault if that happens, if what Trump did coalesces North Korea and China to retaliate together. And by the way, maybe Russia. That's a whole other aspect of this. It wouldn't be Trump's fault because he got out of the Iran nuclear deal, which is what precipitated Iran going back to enriching uranium in the first place and led to the situation in which we find ourselves today. It wouldn't be because of that. It wouldn't be because of all the other things that Donald Trump has done. It would be Biden's fault. Biden, who did not unilaterally bomb countries without telling Congress. So, you know, a little history refresher for Secretary Pete. North Korea has been a Chinese client state since the Korean War, okay. Propped up by China for 80 years. Iran and China began deepening their military cooperation in the 1990s. Under Trump, they held joint naval exercises for the first time in years. So if this axis of authoritarian countries is real, it certainly didn't start under Biden, and it's certainly not Joe Biden's fault. But all they have is a single hammer, and that hammer is it's Biden's fault. And so that's what they're going with. Now, Pete Hegseth was also asked about the Director of National Intelligence report that Iran is not close or was not close to a nuclear weapon. This is what Tulsi Gabbard, as dni, presented to Congress just a couple of months ago. And he just dodges on the intelligence. Take a listen to this.
- [29:11]
Tulsi Gabbard
Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Concerning the justification for these strikes. In March, the office of the Director of National Intelligence released their threat assessments concluding, quote, iran is not building a nuclear weapon, and Khomeini has not authorized the nuclear programs he suspended in 2003, unquote. So what new intelligence does the US have since then that the Iranians have changed their position on nuclear weapons?
- [29:43]
David Pakman
Good question.
- [29:45]
Tulsi Gabbard
And does this new intelligence come from US Sources and methods, or are we getting this information from other countries?
- [29:53]
Pete Hegseth
Well, I would just simply say that the president's made it very clear, he's looked at all of this, all of the intelligence, all the information, and come to the conclusion that the Iranian nuclear program is a threat.
- [30:04]
David Pakman
There you go. That's it. Trump, who is an expert at parsing through intelligence, right, who can't even sit through an intelligence briefing and normally doesn't even take them, doesn't matter what the intelligence says, it doesn't matter what the report from the ODNI says. It doesn't matter what his own Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard said. Trump decided that there's a nuclear threat from Iran. No evidence. Now, the regime change question did come up and this was before Trump was like, of course, refer regime change. The question came up, is this about regime change? And he said, no, no, me. Yeah. So is regime change off the table, Mr. Secretary? And to the chairman, you know, you said the battle damage assessment is still ongoing, but do you believe that some nuclear capability in Iran remains?
- [30:58]
Pete Hegseth
This mission was not and has not been about regime change.
- [31:02]
David Pakman
Unfortunately, moments later, Donald Trump tweeted, why wouldn't this be about regime change? And then this morning, Caroline Levitt, of course, reinforce that. So we've seen that game before. We saw it in a lot of different places. It's always, this is just a precision strike and then it ends up being a complete and total disaster. Now, the twist is it really might not have originally been about regime change. Like, this administration may be so clueless and incompetent that maybe that's not what they were initially going for. But it seems now as the John Bolton's and the Mark Levins and whoever Hannity and everybody else got in, now all of a sudden it is about regime change. So that's like the full circle on the Iran stuff. You've got Fox News contributors now talking about giving Trump the Nobel Peace Prize for the bombing. We'll get to that tomorrow after this break. We're going to talk to California Governor Gavin Newsom and then we will talk about a bunch of other things after this break. So I learned a while ago that I was clenching and grinding my teeth at night. Not on purpose, not because I was necessarily stressed out by something ob, but grinding and clenching without even knowing it. And when I talked to my dentist about it, about getting a night guard, it was a whole thing, appointment, mold, waiting, a bill that seemed very high. And ultimately I found Remy, and Remy is our sponsor today. Remy sends a kit right to your door to take an impression of your teeth with super clear step by step instructions, you send it back to them and they will custom make your night guard right here in the United States. In Las Vegas specifically. No waiting rooms, no overpriced bills. Just a better way to protect your teeth while you sleep. Try Remy Risk free at shop remy.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN to get 50% off your night guard at checkout. The link is in the description I want to introduce you to an amazing tool that has helped a huge number of people reach their health goals. It is called Lumen and it's the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath and on the app it'll tell you are you burning fat or carbs and give you tailored guidance to improve nutrition, workouts, even stress management. Your metabolism is like the engine of your body, how you turn food into fuel. And because your metabolism is at the center of everything your body does, optimal metabolic health can translate to to many benefits, including easier weight management and improved energy levels and fitness results. It's a long list. Lumen gives you recommendations to improve metabolic health based on the context of your breath measurement, whether that's first thing in the morning, before and after meals or workouts. And you can get 20% off your lumen by going to Lumen. Me Pacman that's L U m e n.me/pacman for 20% off. The link is in the podcast notes. It's great to welcome back to the program California Governor Gavin Newsom, someone who, if you listen to some Republicans recently seems responsible not only for everything that ails California, but the country and maybe the world. I mean, it's really incredible, Governor, the amount of power that you implicitly have. If you, if you look at some of the truth social feeds of certain people, note it. To start with something serious, I want to hear a little bit of an update on the state of play of the aftermath of the protests. The no Kings Day protests in Los Angeles. We saw this, some would call it an invasion of federal troops. Not at your request, not at the request of Mayor Karen Bass of questionable legality that's currently being litigated. Where are you now on what happened and where are things at this point?
- [35:16]
Gavin Newsom
Well, things have been as we speak right now, and I want to make that clear, remarkably peaceful the last three days. No arrests, very small protests have significantly dissipated from the downtown core which was the center in L A of so much activity. What's interesting is over the course of the last three days, Donald Trump has Not just doubled down, he's quadrupled down. There's close to 5,000 now troops that have been deployed, 4,900 plus that have been deployed. If you add the US Marines, plus the 4,000 plus former National Guardsmen members that have been federalized. And that is in stark contrast to what's going on in the streets. And I think it's important folks know most of those troopsand I say most, 80 plus percent of them had nothing to do over the course of last week. They were sitting there in inadequate dormitories with inadequate supplies, not being mission tasked. What we're assuming now they're being mission tasked to do is less to protect against quote, unquote, protesters, but to be part and parcel of immigration enforcement operations throughout Southern California.
- [36:32]
David Pakman
What is terrifying, among many things to me and to others who are not authoritarians, is that if you look at the authoritarian playbook of the 20th century, you see exactly this sort of thing happening. You see people being told force will be used if you publicly demonstrate against those in power. You see the sending in of federal troops of different kinds against the wishes of municipalities. You see an environment where members of the media are either criticized, sanctioned, or worse, if they have the audacity to hold those in power accountable. To me, it's terrifying and it would be horrible if what we're seeing or what we saw in California was a preview of what is to come. Do you believe that that's a possibility here?
- [37:21]
Gavin Newsom
Well, I think it's almost a certainty. This is America's coming attraction to cities and states all across this country. I mean, the President himself not only asserted that, he's proving that as it relates to increased raids and operations particularly targeted to blue cities in blue states, though not exclusively, as we saw with a meatpacking plant in Nebraska. He continues to flip and flop, zig and zag, saying one thing one day, doing another the next day, saying the opposite the day after. As it relates to, as an example, going after folks that are in our farms and ranches, in hotels and restaurants, we saw just yesterday in Coachella Valley in Southern California, operations with ICE near the Dodger Stadium today in Los Angeles, the chilling effect means people are no longer going to school, let alone walking the streets or going to the parks, playgrounds, or the grocery stores. And if you think I'm exaggerating, there was a report that just came out today, 22% increase in absenteeism in Central Valley schools, predominantly Hispanic schools. We're seeing significant reduction in workforce showing up at farms and ranches and that chill is having a profound impact not only in quality of people's lives and the stress and anxiety that their families are feeling, but also in the economy of this state and increasing the economy of the United States.
- [38:46]
David Pakman
It appears that Vice President J.D. vance is heading to California to do what exactly is unclear to me. I'm curious, what is your sense of what he should be looking at when he's there? What's your sense of this visit? Is the idea here to propagandize around their narrative as to what California and Los Angeles are experiencing right now? What do you think?
- [39:12]
Gavin Newsom
Well, it's an on again, off again, now on again visit. We last we were told he is coming in Friday for some RNC fundraiser, but also I imagine he's here to assert himself, to show his formal authority, to try to sort of express himself in a way that reinforces the frame that you just advanced as it relates to these authoritarian tendencies of this administration to inflame, not to soften the edges of the situation in Los Angeles. It's Friday night. Weekends obviously were more peak focus in terms of our efforts to keep people safe and keep things peaceful. This in no way advances those efforts. It also requires huge amount of law enforcement to protect the Vice President that otherwise would be deployed on our streets to protect people. And I just on that, if I may. I think this is a remarkable point. Donald Trump has pulled hundreds and hundreds of National Guardsmen and women away from counter drug interdiction and work they're doing at the border supporting border patrol as it relates to fentanyl interdiction. He has pulled away hundreds and hundreds of people from doing forest management to prepare for peak wildfire season. And these National Guard men and women, many of them are members of law enforcement themselves. He's literally depleting the members of local law enforcement agencies that would be doing their job on any given week, all for show, for a display. And again you said it, but and I repeated it, but I thought it interesting that former President Obama also reinforced these authoritarian tendencies. The playbook. This is not hyperbole. This is not the rantings of quote unquote, the extreme left. Any sane historian, anyone that soberly reviews the playbook of other authoritarian regimes will see exactly the kind of actions this administration is taking. And I imagine the actions that will be perpetuated if JD Vance shows up in L A tomorrow only further advances. And that's why this is a serious, serious moment.
- [41:31]
David Pakman
As far as your role as governor to welcome or not welcome the Vice president, there is he welcome. As far as you're concerned, he's the.
- [41:39]
Gavin Newsom
Vice president, United States. I revere the office of vice president. I revere the office of president. And I say that as a former mayor that welcomed in members of previous and prior administrations that did not share the values of our state or our city, I think one has to protect and preserve those fundamental principles. Even as these folks try to tear down these institutions, diminish the truth and trust associated with these institutions, we'll maintain that reverence for them.
- [42:11]
David Pakman
I want to talk briefly about something you've been willing to talk about, but not everybody in the Democratic Party has, which is that something seems to be going on here with Donald Trump's cognition. There was this thing last week where the president said that he had spoken to you in the previous day and about the sending in of National Guard troops. It turned out that you had had a call four days earlier during which that topic was not broached. And this, as you pointed out, raised the question of does Donald Trump know what day it is? Just in the last 48 hours, he seemed to suggest that the Declaration of Independence came as a result of the Civil War rather than the Revolutionary War. Off by about 100 years. We've seen Jake Tapper's book. I didn't think Joe Biden should run again. We've talked about that before, but Joe Biden's not the president right now. Donald Trump is the president. Why do you think corporate media is not super hot on touching that topic?
- [43:12]
Gavin Newsom
It's beyond me. May I applaud Lawrence o' Donnell? Another network to his credit has been putting this together in pretty remarkable way. I mean, you string all of these sentences and statements this guy has made. In any other case, any other president, there'd be some real, real conversation in this country. It would be alarming beyond words. It's not a partisan frame to say this. I mean, the fact that he even was ranting on just a day ago about raking forests in Austria, saying we need to rake the forests, that's just not normal. He's a stone cold liar. Stone cold liar about a conversation we never had. It was a complete myth. And the worst part, David, about it is that Fox News knowingly backed him up, knowingly lied, knowingly lied to back up the president. And that's something that also should raise alarm bells. That is a red flag. We have a propaganda network. Don't take my word for it. Take Tucker Carlson's word for it in that respect. In Fox News, that's acting more like PRAVDA in the Soviet Union than a fair and balanced network of information. And I think they also need to be held to some level of accountability and some higher standards of ethics. God bless. But that said, this is I've had conversations with the president, including that conversation on that Friday night, that I'm not privy out of respect again, reverence the presidency to share. But it would send shivers up your spine that in the quote, unquote, midst of the incidents in la, the things and topics he wanted to discuss with the governor of the state in question was alarming beyond words. So I don't want to overstate. I think his public statements say everything you need to know to be concerned and why I think you brought that question up. And the private conversations are even more concerning.
- [45:24]
David Pakman
Last thing on this and then we'll move to our last topic. That conversation took place after one in the morning, east coast time, where Donald Trump was at the time. Recently he posted to truth social at 8pm midnight, 2am and 6am which is raising real questions as to sort of like what exactly is happening. Can you, without sharing information in terms of the substance, that would be up to the White House to share, do you have a sense of sort of like what he's doing all night and what's going on over there? Because there is a very strange pattern to the timing of this.
- [45:56]
Gavin Newsom
It seems like he's just mainlining news. He's mainlining this sort of sycophancy that's out there of his followers and sort of the reflective, you know, his reflective glory of the Dear Leader and just consuming all of this. But look, what I'm consumed by and what I'm concerned is that he's stuck on the same stories, he's stuck on the same sentences, but with a different cadence than in the past. And it's, look, if it wasn't so serious. And you have to be careful in this space, but we're sitting here at this moment in time in a very precarious space as it relates to what's going on in the Middle East. Right? And we need serious leaders. We need very thoughtful leaders. We need sober leaders that are able to adjudicate the facts, that have enough rest, that have enough, you know, capacity of understanding and are prepared to make life and death decisions. He continues to make reckless decisions. He's wrecking our economy. 55% tax on your Christmas choice. That's the deal allegedly he's made with China that needs to be codified. A tax on Christmas. 55%. You saw the Fed Chair yesterday, talk about the inflationary pressures later this year. We have all the uncertainty in the markets. We have sectors of our economy that are being wrecked. You saw massive declines in the number of container cargo coming through the ports here in California. Visitorship is way down all across this country. Consumer confidence is down. Retail spend was down two months in a row. We still have all of the uncertainty around whether or not he's going to land the plane on 90 deals in 90 days. Roll your eyes. Not just the credits on that one. And here we are with all of the additional uncertainty going after mass deportation raids in restaurants, in, in hotels and in fields and meatpacking facilities and packing facilities, packaging facilities across this country. It is a very, very precarious moment.
- [48:13]
David Pakman
Governor, last thing, and I know you've got to run. I was on with Chris Cuomo the other night after a debate, a MAGA on MAGA debate, the pro go to war in Iran side of MAGA and the anti. And I couldn't help but think what is really happening here is that this entire presidency and this entire movement was built on policy positions that were never real. Trump as the anti war president was never real. Trump says he's religious. He's never been religious. Trump says he's against abortion. He's never been against abortion. I'm curious what you make of the impact that that has as it trickles down to governors in terms of policy, the fact that so much of what is coming from the federal government is really just branding and not really policy. And where does that leave you as a governor in terms of the decisions you make as an administrator?
- [49:05]
Gavin Newsom
Well, I mean, it's, look, it's, you know, his policies have the form and substance of fog and they change on a whim. They change on the basis of his iterative process of focus grouping as it relates to testing things. He tests, as he jokes with me about, hey, my crowds, my base loves new scum. And he tests these things out. He'll test positions. He'll completely change positions on the basis of whatever the afternoon reflection is, meaning who's in his office, who's on the last guy to give him a phone call or how the audience reacts or how, you know, Sean Hannity feels on any given night. Alarmingly more and more of that, I think, as it relates to his national security advisers being the lineup on Fox Evening News. But look, it makes it very difficult to govern and manage. Let me give you another obvious point. This is a guy who said we won't cut Medicaid and here we are the Senate wants to cut it even deeper. This is a guy who said he was going to balance budgets. Now he doesn't even give a Damn if it's 3 trillion, not just 2.4 trillion additional debt burden to kids and grandkids. Look, this is, it's remarkable how he's been able to spin his way back into this position. He is a, he's the music man, he's the carny, he's the flim flammer. He's a bullshit artist and he's one of the best bullshit artists that has ever practiced the presidency. He is good at it, but. He's good at it. But to your point in your question, and forgive the long winded response, here's the windup. You know, this is interesting to watch the Bannons of the world, to watch the Carlson Tucker's of the world, right. To watch some of the core members of the family, the Maga family, truly question his capacity to lead at this moment. And, and so I think this is a, you know, stay tuned. This may be a preview of more things, more interesting things to come.
- [51:07]
David Pakman
We've been speaking with California Governor Gavin Newsom. Always appreciate your time. Thank you.
- [51:13]
Gavin Newsom
Good to be back with you.
- [51:15]
David Pakman
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Fewer risks, more control over your identity. Try it Risk free for 30 days and get 60% off an annual plan when you go to incogni.com/pacman that's incogni.com/Pacman for 60% off. The link is in the podcast notes. Well, it's happening again. Concerns about Donald Trump's health have gone viral over his swollen Bruised hands. It has now become a pattern. New picture goes viral. People start asking questions, what's going on with Trump's health? What's going on with Trump's hands? And we never get transparency. We never get answers that make any sense. And this is really less of a medical story than it is a story about transparency. Transparency that this administration said nobody would be able to exceed them in. So here's what happened. At the recent G7 summit in Canada. Pictures showed the back of Trump's right hand, discolored, which we've seen before, bruised, puffy, and partially seemingly covered in what looked like makeup. This isn't the first time you might remember that this happened. Months ago, there was the campaign stops where it was noticeable, White House events. I think there was a UFC fight where it was noticed. The White House's explanation hasn't changed. He's just shaking too many people's hands. He's greeting so many supporters with such intensity that the strain is causing bruising. That's the story, but a lot of people aren't buying it. There's two reasons why people aren't buying it. Number one, very rarely would handshaking cause bruising there. If it's true that handshaking is causing bruising on that part of the hand, it must be because of either some underlying condition or. Or medication, because it wouldn't be normal to have bruising. And by the way, now, swelling of this kind just from shaking hands for someone without some condition or on some particular medication, which, of course, neither of which the White House has disclosed. So doctors looked at the pictures. The same sorts of ideas are being floated. Bruising from regular IV use, IV of what kind? We just don't know. Others have pointed to mild edema, which could be linked to vascular fragility, being on blood thinners, cardiovascular strain. Trump is 79. And there are certain situations in which this sort of bruising and swelling would be more common. What hasn't changed and what makes this different from the endless scrutiny over how Biden walked or how Biden talked is the lack of transparency. Trump has still never released complete medical records. His 2016 doctor's note said this would be the healthiest president ever. It was dictated by Trump himself. We've gotten updates since then that are either vague or sanitized or delivered through Partizan documents. His supporters don't question it. Right wing media barely bring it up, and they all look around and go, yeah, this guy, 6, 3 and weighs 220 pounds or whatever he most recently claimed. But the signs Keep appearing, swollen hands, the gate issues, the slurred speech, the confusion, the memory issues. Sometimes it's dismissed, sometimes it's brushed over with jokes or silence. We spoke to Gavin Newsom about why this is. He weighed in. He sees it the same way. But when a sitting president appears day after day with bruising, signs of possible medical treatments that haven't been disclosed, and we never get a clear explanation, of course, it's logical to be asking questions. There could be an innocent explanation, could be nothing, could be minor, we don't know. But they're unwilling to actually say what it is that's going on. And what I keep going back to is it is shocking how little attention this gets from mainstream outlets. When Biden cleared its throat, sounded hoarse or tripped, it was days of the news cycle. Entire segments built around whether he coughed too hard or paused too long. But Trump, who's now nearly 80, slurred speech, bruising, swollen hands, slowed gait, dragging the right leg just barely, barely a blip. So there is a collective silence from many of the same media voices that were breathlessly dissecting Biden's every move, tiptoeing around all of it with Donald Trump. Now tell me what you think is going on. So we did the Gavin Newsom interview that was included on today's show a couple of days ago, so we published it on YouTube already. Not only did it make it onto MSNBC, it made it onto Fox News. Trump appears to have seen it on Fox News and completely lost his mind. So let's backtrack a little bit. First and foremost, here is Chris Hayes on msnbc, using a little clip of our Gavin Newsom interview.
- [57:20]
Gavin Newsom
I think it's important folks know most of those troops, and I say most, 80 plus percent of them, had nothing to do over the course of last week.
- [57:30]
David Pakman
So then it also made it onto Fox News is the Five. They even opened a segment with it. Take a look at this.
- [57:41]
Donald Trump
Gavin Newscomb, who's really an incompetent governor. We saved Los Angeles by having the military go in. He sued us for going in and for helping him. We went and helped him. Right now, you'd have Los Angeles burning to the ground.
- [57:56]
Gavin Newsom
He's a flim flammer. He's a bull artist, and he's one of the best bull artists that has ever practiced the presidency. He is good at it, but he's.
- [58:06]
David Pakman
Good at it all right. And then moments after Fox News is the Five played a clip of my interview with Gavin Newsom. They cut to Jessica Tarlov's commentary on this, and Jessica Tarlov said things that set Trump for a loop. So here was Jessica Tarlov's commentary after my interview with Gavin Newsom. Take a look.
- [58:31]
Kayleigh McEnany
The songs have never worked, starting with the original Doge quartet that was outside the Department of Education. I'm, I'm not into singing, but you have seen this, Jesse said. Look at the numbers. And it's manifesting in the numbers. So Gavin's personal aspirations of becoming president, we'll see how that shakes out in the primary. But our favorite, Harry Anton, who gives the most enthusiastic reads of the big board, said Trump has lost the political battle when it comes to what's happening in L a. He is -15 overall on how he's handling it and -24 with independence. Pew has no polling out, 49% saying he's gone too far. And 54% say that they disapprove of the workplace rates. And we know that he's also underwater on immigration and our own polling -7 there. So when we say the people don't like this, they don't like it. That doesn't mean the Democrats aren't still unpopular. That doesn't mean I don't know if the election was held again today, Donald Trump might very well win again. If it was, he would. I'm just saying that you can't deny the fact that the direction and Greg, you always say directionally, where are we going directionally? It has been heading in the negative direction on every single major indicator of.
- [59:46]
David Pakman
Success for a president that set Trump off. This is the first time we are reasonably sure that Donald Trump has seen a part of the David Pakman show and he's furious that Fox would let Jessica Tarlov weigh in on it. Here is what he this is a long wall of text he put on truth Social Trump flipping out saying, quote, why does Fox News allow failed TV personality Jessica Tarlov to soil the 5? Her voice, her manner and above all else, what she says are a disgrace to television broadcasting. I've had the best poll numbers that I've ever had. That's a lie. And she is constantly saying the exact opposite. The just out highly respected Rasmussen poll is at 56%, insider advantage 54%. Many others are at 56 to 68%. Sadly, the audience has to listen to her spew off that I'm doing poorly in the polls while I am beating the Democrats by 15 plus points. And more importantly, I just won an election against two candidates, Sleepy Joe and Kamala in a landslide by winning all Seven swing states and the popular vote by millions with records broken everywhere. In all fairness to Jesse and Greg, who aren't terrific, who are terrific, they don't see all of these poll numbers and can't therefore come to my defense. But I can. Nobody can stand Tarlov. She lies over and over again. And Mag is complaining big league that she's all over fox. Watch their ratings go down by keeping her on the show. Nobody wants to listen to her. Why doesn't she talk about the fact that I had zero illegal aliens come into our country last month? That's a lie. Whereas sleepy Joe Biden allowed 62,000 people to come in, many from prisons, mental institutions. That's a lie. And gangs. People like Jessica Tarlov make MAGA absolutely hate fox. You know, we've been wondering for a long time if Trump ever saw our content, how would he react? This is how he reacts, we now know. Now, as far as Jessica Tarlov goes, she is the one voice of reason on that show. And to Trump's comment about ratings, it really doesn't seem to be hurting the ratings. Fox 5 is doing just fine and Jessica Tarlov's been on there for a while. So Trump wildly triggered by the interview with Gavin Newsom and by the follow up commentary from Jessica Tarlov. You know, you can say a lot of things about Gavin Newsom. Oh, I don't think he's progressive enough or I don't like what he did with this in California. Fine. Every elected official we have critiques of, criticisms, things we disagree with. But Gavin Newsom is really good, really good at getting under Trump's skin. And something about Newsom triggers Trump. Maybe it's that Newsom genuinely doesn't need a teleprompter, which Trump says he doesn't need. And Obama was bad for using one. And Biden, but Trump uses a teleprompter all the time. Newsom doesn't need one. Maybe that triggers Trump. Maybe it's that Newsom doesn't slur his way through most public appearances. Maybe that triggers Trump. I don't know what it is, but something about Gavin Newsom just sends Trump for a loop. And we finally have reason to believe that Trump has seen bits of the show and he doesn't like it. I take it as a, as a badge of honor. All right, we are going to talk on the bonus show today about surging oil prices and what it means for gas prices. I, I currently have a gas loaner vehicle and I've been filling the tank and I'll give you my personal experience with it. A judge is going to order the release of Kilmar Break Abrego Garcia before trial, but ICE is planning to immediately detain him. And we will talk about the latest with the New York City mayoral race, all on today's bonus show. Don't miss it. Sign up@join pacman.com and remember to get on my daily Substack newsletter@david pakman.substack.com See you then.