Donald Trump (6:48)

The recent terror attack in Boulder, Colorado.

David Pakman (6:51)

Has a Torah attack scored.

Donald Trump (6:53)

The extreme dangers posed to our country by the entry of foreign nationals who are not properly vetted, as well as those who come here as temporary visitors and overstay their visas. We don't want them. In the 21st century, we've seen one terror attack after another carried out by foreign visa overstayers from dangerous places all over the world. And thanks to Biden's open door policies, today there are millions and millions of these illegals who should not be in our country. In my first term, my powerful travel restrictions were one of our most successful policies.

David Pakman (7:32)

They were not successful and they were.

Donald Trump (7:34)

A key part of preventing major foreign terror attacks on American soil. We will not let what happened in Europe happen to America. That's why on my first day back in office, I directed the Secretary of State to perform a security review of high risk regions and make recommendations for where restrictions should be imposed. Among the national security threats their analysis considered are the large scale presence of terrorists, failure to cooperate on visa security, inability to verify travelers identities, inadequate record keeping of criminal histories, and persistently high rates of illegal visa overstays and other things. Very simply, we cannot have open migration from any country where we cannot safely and reliably vet and screen those who seek to enter the United States.

David Pakman (8:33)

All right, I think you get the point. This is not the first time Donald Trump has done this. He refers to the supposed successes of his first term travel ban. You'll remember that the Twitter 2017 Muslim ban as it was known, it didn't even include the countries responsible for 9 11, even though supposedly that was part of the motivation for doing it. Saudi Arabia wasn't on the list. Egypt wasn't on the list. UAE wasn't. He sort of banned random majority Muslim countries with little to no terror record against the United States. That was a broken playbook, then it's the same broken playbook right now. Ban whoever looks scary on a map and and say you're doing it for national security. But I think the timing is also relevant here because this stunt is not coming out of nowhere. The so called big, beautiful bill, Trump's signature and really only actual potential policy accomplishment, is completely stalled in the Senate now with many Republicans saying in its current form we can't vote for it. We'll talk about that on the bonus show. But there are now Republicans saying that bill goes too far. So that was potentially going to be an accomplishment that is now facing significant headwinds. Remember how Donald Trump promised that world leaders were going to come to him with tears in their eyes begging to make a trade deal once he put tariffs in place? And it's been crickets. No phone calls. We were told 90 deals in 90 days. We're at zero deals in 120 days. So he's failing on all those fronts. What does he do instead? He falls back on what he knows best, which is fear. A travel ban, immigrants, foreign threats, countries with many letters in their names, anything to dominate the news cycle and appear to be in control, even when he's clearly completely confused about what to do and pretty checked out mentally as well. We'll talk about that later in the show too. If you were actually serious about preventing visa overstays, which by the way, I think is a worthy effort when we talk about, well, building the wall. What about other areas like visa overstays? I've been an advocate for dealing with visa overstays, but there are real solutions that you can look at. Improve data sharing. With countries that we issue visas to, data sharing is currently a disaster. Improving that data sharing could make a lot of this travel ban unnecessary. Even if you theoretically believe it will work, which I don't believe it will, expand in country vetting through consulates and embassies. This is not sexy stuff. Right? It's much more titillating to go, I've got a list of countries and you're banned. Just like you were fired on Trump's reality show, you're banned. But this is the sort of stuff that it actually takes. Use targeted overstay tracking with existing technology that's in place and functional right now. Maybe if you're going to do a list, do a list that includes countries relevant to the incidents that you are citing. But instead, what Donald Trump is throw together another one of these bans that excludes the only country tied to the attack he cites as a catalyst the Boulder attack and the country of Egypt, because the goal is not really to protect Americans, it's to distract Americans. And when nothing else is working, the tariffs aren't working, the economy's not working, his own party's not even working together with him. Trump reaches for the oldest sort of laziest trick in the book. The this is analogous to when actual police reform isn't popular, when, when you can't do the actual police reform you need to do, you hear from people, just defund the police. And I've said that's low energy, that that's low effort. We have a 10 to 12 point plan for how to reform the police. It's more work, but it'll work better. They go, let's just defund the whole thing. I've been critical of that. I don't think it makes sense. Similarly, when nothing is working, you go, let's ban people from scary sounding countries. Scary to them, of course, blame outsiders, blame foreigners, and hope you get an attaboy pat on the back for keeping us safe. And that nobody asks any questions. And meanwhile, as we spoke about at the top of the show, he's putting together a Peter Thiel Palantir created citizenship database to centralize all information about you and me and every other American citizen. Disastrous, confused stuff. But is anybody surprised? Because this is at this point certainly what I expect. Let me know what you think. Info at David Pakman Dotcom. And remember to subscribe to the YouTube channel YouTube.com/the David Pakman show, where we are slowly but surely huffing and puffing and chugging towards 3.5 million YouTube subscribers. We'll take a quick break and be right back. There is a coordinated campaign right now to force religious beliefs into law, and it's moving fast. In Texas, lawmakers are trying to mandate the Ten Commandments in every public school classroom. In our Republican Congress, religious conservatives passed a bill to strip Medicaid coverage from gender affirming care, using religion as the justification. And across the country right now, we see these Christian nationalists really emboldened by the MAGA movement and they're reshaping America. And it's terrifying. This is why I support the Freedom from Religion Foundation. They've been fighting back since 1978, defending the separation of church and state in courts, in schools and wherever religion tries to take control. If you believe, as I do, that government should represent everyone, not just the religious right, take action now. Go to ff rf.us/freedom or just text the word David to 511511 go to ffrf.us/freedom or text David to 5115511. The info is in the podcast description text Fees may apply. So I learned a while ago that I was clenching and grinding my teeth at night. Not on purpose, not because I was necessarily stressed out by something obvious, but grinding and clenching without even knowing it. And when I talked to my dentist about it, about getting a night guard, it was a whole thing. Appointment, mold, waiting, a bill that seemed very high. And ultimately I found Remy. And Remy is our sponsor. Today, Remy sends a kit right to your door to take an impression of your teeth with super clear step by step instructions. You send it back to them and they will custom make your night guard right here in the United States. In Las Vegas specifically. No waiting rooms, no overpriced bills. Just a better way to protect your teeth while you sleep. Try Remy Risk free at shop remy.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN to get 50% off your night guard at checkout. That's Shop r e m I.com/pacman Use code PACMAN for 50% off. The link is in the podcast Notes the David Pakman show continues to be an audience supported program. Our primary source of funding is the audience. People like you who listen to the podcast, watch YouTube clips, watch clips on Instagram or Facebook or Snapchat or Tik Tok or whatever platform we're on and say hey, I'm going to contribute a few bucks here. I'm going to get access to the great perks that you offer. So consider the full David Pakman show experience. You can sign up@join pacman.com and you can also use the coupon code. It will end soon to save about 50% off of the cost of a membership. I don't know that there has ever been ever been a less qualified Secretary of education than Linda McMahon. I am going to show you the caliber of what this Secretary of Education. Did I say Secretary of State of Education or State before Now I think my brain glitched. I am going to show you the caliber of this Secretary of Education Linda McMahon and only Betsy DeVos, Trump's first term Secretary of Education even comes close. As you may know, Linda McMahon is big mad about DEI. She wants to get rid of all DEI. She says some of it's illegal, etc. Well Congresswoman Lee started questioning Linda McMahon. What about teaching the Tulsa race massacre? What about teaching that Joe Biden won the 2020 election? Are these considered DEI? Is this illegal curricula and I Don't think it will shock you to hear that Linda McMahon suffered a complete and total collapse on what are pretty damn simple questions was that.

Congresswoman Lee (17:50)

I would like to. Your thoughts on simple, yes or no. If this is a legal dei, an example, would you say that it would be an illegal DEI for a lesson plan on the Tulsa race massacre?

Linda McMahon (18:03)

I'd have to get back to you on that.

David Pakman (18:05)

I would have to get back to you on that. Why would it be illegal to teach about the Tulsa race massacre? McMahon's not sure.

Congresswoman Lee (18:14)

Do you know what the Tulsa race massacre is?

Linda McMahon (18:15)

I'd like to look into it more and get back to you on it.

Congresswoman Lee (18:17)

Okay, so I look forward to that.

David Pakman (18:19)

How about, by the way, it's not even clear she knows what it is.

Congresswoman Lee (18:23)

The book Through My Eyes by Ruby Bridges, for instance.

Linda McMahon (18:26)

I haven't read that.

Congresswoman Lee (18:29)

Have you learned about Ruby Bridges?

Linda McMahon (18:32)

If you have specific examples you'd like.

Congresswoman Lee (18:34)

That was a specific example.

Linda McMahon (18:35)

I'll be very happy.

Congresswoman Lee (18:36)

It was an incredibly specific example.

Linda McMahon (18:38)

I named your questions and I will look into it and get back to you.

Congresswoman Lee (18:41)

How about a school having a voluntary celebration for Pride Month?

Linda McMahon (18:45)

Well, I think that Voluntary. Well, let's make sure that in our schools.

Congresswoman Lee (18:51)

Yes or no?

Linda McMahon (18:52)

We're looking. No, it's not.

Congresswoman Lee (18:54)

Okay. Was it? I would like to.

Donald Trump (18:56)

Yeah.

David Pakman (18:56)

Yeah. Okay. So, like, that's pretty bad, right? That's like a 7 out of 10 as to how bad it is. But it gets even worse. Then the question becomes, what about a social studies class that teaches Biden won the 2020 election? A historical fact, an empirical reality, an undeniable truth. McMahon's not totally sure because she goes, well, it should be taught accurately. And of course, we all know what this is about. This is less about what Linda McMahon believes. I think Linda McMahon believes and knows that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election, but she doesn't want to get in trouble with the big guy. This is about virtue signaling and proving her loyalty. And proving loyalty includes being evasive as to whether it is accurate to teach that Joe Biden won the 2020 election.

Congresswoman Lee (19:47)

Okay. How about social studies standards that teach that President Biden won the 2020 election?

Linda McMahon (19:53)

I think our school, our studies should all be taught accurately.

David Pakman (19:57)

Okay. Better answer would be Biden won, so it would be correct to teach that. But she doesn't say that she's evasive.

Congresswoman Lee (20:04)

Yes or no?

Linda McMahon (20:05)

I think our studies.

Congresswoman Lee (20:06)

No, no, no. The question was, do you believe that social studies standards that teach that President Biden won the 2020 election is an IL. Yes or no?

Linda McMahon (20:14)

I Think I have said we should teach accurately. We should know.

Congresswoman Lee (20:18)

You have not answered the question. I don't understand why you're incapable of.

Linda McMahon (20:22)

Just giving you the answer. You want.

Congresswoman Lee (20:23)

No, I want the answer. Whatever your answer is.

Linda McMahon (20:26)

I just gave you the answer.

Garland Gilchrist (20:27)

No.

Congresswoman Lee (20:27)

The answer is yes or no.

Linda McMahon (20:28)

The answer is.

Congresswoman Lee (20:29)

The answer is yes or no.

David Pakman (20:31)

Gentle ladies, thank you so much.

Congresswoman Lee (20:32)

I yield back.

David Pakman (20:33)

She is not going to answer the question with a yes or no. Certainly not with. With that. Of course it's okay to teach that. Biden was one. Because rule number one of maga trumpism, the first commandment of the maga cult is never acknowledge that your guy might have lost something sometime. These are not tough questions and these are not trick questions. We then get to yet another question. What about African studies, Middle Eastern studies, Chinese studies? What about that? And Linda McMahon says we should be teaching both sides of that stuff. What are both sides of African American history? Slavery was good and slavery was bad. Or I don't even know what that means, but this is where we are today.

Congresswoman Lee (21:23)

Secretary McMahon, during your confirmation hearing, you were asked by senator Chris Murphy if an African American history class violated the administration's position on diversity, equity and inclusion. Conclusion. You said you like to look into it. You've been on the job for a few minutes, months now. Have you been able to look into it?

Linda McMahon (21:39)

I do not think that African studies or Middle east studies or Chinese studies are part of DEI if they are taught as part of the total history package. So that if you're giving the facts on both sides, of course they're not de.

David Pakman (21:54)

Both sides, Yeah.

Congresswoman Lee (21:55)

I don't know what both sides of African American history would be.

Linda McMahon (21:58)

Well, if African American history is part of, certainly.

Congresswoman Lee (22:02)

But what we recognize throughout public education, what we recognize throughout education is that a course is only one year or one semester. It would be impossible to teach African history and say, European history at the same time. Do you not agree that it makes sense that there would be separate courses for these courses of study? And has happened throughout history? We're able to do it not just in history courses. We're able to do it with different types of literature courses or different types of music courses. One won't learn. One wouldn't learn about baroque music and necessarily have to also learn about African drumming at the same time.

Garland Gilchrist (22:30)

Right.

Congresswoman Lee (22:30)

We can separate those courses.

Linda McMahon (22:31)

Yes, we can. And I think just as we teach.

Congresswoman Lee (22:33)

U. S. History is a separate course, certainly. So you do not agree. So you do agree that African American cultures and African history should not be eliminated from courses Particularly AP African History.

Linda McMahon (22:43)

Well, I think that African history can certainly be taught and not be considered a dei.

David Pakman (22:47)

There you go. So hard to find a less qualified person to be in this role. The topic of magnet schools came up. Magnet schools are free public elementary and secondary schools of choice with specialized curricula meant to attract students from various backgrounds. Linda McMahon says magnet schools are great. It is pointed out that the budget doesn't seem to coincide with that. And Linda McMahon goes, I guess you've looked at the wrong budget. And then it is pointed out. Actually, the budget says nothing about that. But what your budget does is it undercuts parental choice because magnet schools are choice driven programs. I can say that personally because my daughter attended a magnet school and, you know, it was an excellent education experience. You zeroed out that account, which is completely undercuts and contradicts the hype in your. In your opening statement about supporting parental choice.

Garland Gilchrist (23:48)

I mean, how, why, why wouldn't you support magnet schools?

Linda McMahon (23:52)

I do support magnet schools. And as we both know, in Connecticut, I'll speak to magnet schools. But also in Connecticut, there has been the lowest growth in charter schools. I think we're like fifth from the bottom in the country for allowing more charter school.

Garland Gilchrist (24:07)

So why zero out magnets?

Linda McMahon (24:08)

Magnet schools are also as our charter schools. They are public schools. So in the public schools funding, then I think that as the states have more control over their state budgets, they can allocate those dollars to magnet schools. I think magnet schools are great. And I know that a lot of them do focus on particular kinds of schools.

David Pakman (24:28)

Thank you. Just reclaim. My talk is cheap. Budgets are what count. And, and this budget does not say that magnet schools are great.

Garland Gilchrist (24:34)

I have another question.

Linda McMahon (24:35)

I want to just reference the skinny budget. And that was an operating plan. We now have the full budget budget. So we might take another look at that.

Garland Gilchrist (24:41)

Yeah, it says zero.

Linda McMahon (24:42)

You may still.

David Pakman (24:43)

Yeah, there's just nothing in there. Oh, we love magnet schools. No problem whatsoever. Well, why didn't you fund them? We did. Well, not in the skinny budget. No, it's in the full budget. No, it's not in the full budget either. Who the hell knows? And then finally, finally this both sides thing. Should Holocaust denial, for example, be taught? If her claim is we need to be teaching both sides with history, it just gets wacky. My time.

Linda McMahon (25:08)

I want to know what my reclaiming my time.

David Pakman (25:10)

Madam Secretary, determined secretary with the Harvard Medical School who is looking to hire an immunologist, would that person need to adhere to HHS Secretary Kennedy's view on the efficacy of vaccines.

Linda McMahon (25:25)

Listen, we all know that we should have our universities look at what all the programs are really thought through. This viewpoint diversity issue that you're trying to put forth is a false narrative.

Garland Gilchrist (25:38)

Okay.

Linda McMahon (25:39)

And the funding is a privilege.

David Pakman (25:40)

Madam, sermon my time. Does refusing to hire a Holocaust denier as a member of Harvard's History department faculty count as an ideological limits test?

Linda McMahon (25:54)

I believe that there should be diversity of viewpoints relative to teachings and opinions on campuses.

David Pakman (26:01)

But what about, what about this situation of. Of Harvard's history department and they're looking for another department member would being a Holocaust denier.

Linda McMahon (26:12)

I do know that. I do know that Harvard did replace its head of Middle Eastern studies even before we looked at it, because they.

David Pakman (26:19)

Anyway, you get. She just doesn't have. She just doesn't have the. She doesn't have the cards. To quote Donald Trump. She just doesn't have what it takes to be in this role. And of course, we all know that when they talk about viewpoint diversity in general, they really only mean it in specific cases. They don't mean, oh no, you've got to have a Holocaust denier to balance out teaching the history of the Holocaust. It's in specific instances where it's convenient to them. And that's really what comes through here. Terrifying that this is. Who's in charge of the Department of Education, a department, by the way, that they want to shut down. Anyway, Donald Trump just proudly announced that he got his marching orders from Russian President Vladimir Putin after an hour phone call. Now understand that Donald Trump has since deleted the truth social post. I'm about to show you because it was so humiliating, it was so pathetic, it was so bottom of the barrel embarrassing as President of the United States that he removed it. But what Donald Trump said after speaking with Putin was the following, quote, I just finished speaking by telephone with President Vladimir Putin of Russia. The call lasted approximately 1 hour and 15 minutes. We discussed the attack on Russia's docked airplanes by Ukraine and also various other attacks that have been taking place by both sides. It was a good conversation, but not a conversation that will lead to immediate peace. President Putin did say, and very strongly that he will have to respond to a recent attack on the airfields. We also discussed Iran and the fact that time is running out on Iran's decision pertaining to nuclear weapons, which must be made quickly. I stated to President Putin that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. And on this I believe that we are in agreement. President Putin suggested he will participate in the discussions with Iran and that he could perhaps be helpful in getting this brought to a rapid conclusion. It is my opinion that Iran has been slow walking their decision on this very important matter and we will need a definitive answer in a very short period of time. Trump has since deleted this post. Trump's instinct, after Ukraine defends itself against a brutal illegal invasion is to call Putin and go, how are you doing after being the victim of this attack? This is deference, not diplomacy. It's Trump live blogging subservience. Putin said very strongly that he's going to retaliate. Okay. Sounds less presidential and more sort of like a mouthpiece for Vladimir Putin. You're coordinating American foreign policy on Iran with Vladimir Putin, the same Putin who's been arming Iran, protecting Iran, using Iranian drones to bomb Ukrainian civilians. This is not strategy, this is a delusion. And I don't know whether Trump, when he posted this, he has since deleted it. I don't know if Trump, when he posted it, believed that he and Putin together were going to bring Iran to some kind of decision. Vladimir Putin, global peacemaker, is going to pressure Iran into denuclearization. I'm sure that that's going to happen. So understand that this is not normal and this is not diplomacy. This is a President of the United States bragging about taking foreign policy cues from the Kremlin while downplaying the violence of Putin's war being waged against Ukraine. And so the story here is not new. You, I'm sure you've heard me say it a dozen times at this point, Trump has a soft spot for strongmen. It's Kim Jong Un, it's Orban, it's MBS in Saudi Arabia. But this is a special relationship. Not the US and uk. It's a different special relationship. It's Trump and Putin. In it is submission disguised as strength. That's what this is. And the most disturbing part is that Trump is telling us again that he is happy to defer to Putin on this critical issue. Remember, he said he'd end the Ukraine war in 24 hours of becoming President Elect. Then it kept pushed back to January. He'll end the Ukraine, Russia war within 24 hours of being sworn in. Then it was going to be within 100 days. That also didn't happen. And now he's just sort of platforming Putin's narrative, undermining Naito and suggesting that Russia should be leading nuclear negotiations in the Middle East. It's whacked, folks. But, but it's not surprising. And so we shouldn't be shocked that he hasn't ended the war. It seems he's getting ready potentially to walk away and to cede total control to Putin on these critical issues. But somehow they got to Trump and said, this is very not good. You should delete it. And Trump did. Which tells us a lot. You know, every time we call out Donald Trump's authoritarianism, the right calls it media hysteria. But I want to remind you that Trump admits he's looking for ways to defy the Constitution and maybe even pursue another term. Now, if you don't know the bias behind your news, you might believe oh, Trump's just teasing us. There's nothing here. Go to Ground News slash Pacman and see how media bias influences more than your perception from Trump's policy and ability to understand and undermine constitutional norms. I've been with Ground News for years now because this is what they do. They expose the hidden agendas behind reporting sources and make it easy to compare coverage and understand critical issues. Even better, if I'm reading a story on another site, the Ground News browser extension will flag the sources political bias and give me other reports on the same story so I can verify the information. My viewers get 40% off the same unlimited Vantage plan that I use, so you get their top tier plan for just $5 a month. 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If you haven't head to drink ag1.com/pacman to subscribe, you'll get a free bottle of AG D3K2, a welcome kit and five travel packs with your first order. The link is in the description Today we welcome to the program, Garland Gilchrist, the lieutenant governor of Michigan and also Democratic candidate for governor of Michigan. It's so great to have you on. We had the governor on several weeks ago and talked both about what's happening in Michigan. We talked a little bit about her recent controversies involving the President of the United States. And I think this is a great opportunity to talk to you a little bit about the nuts and bolts sort of of what folks in Michigan are experiencing right now. So I really appreciate your time. Thanks for being here.

Garland Gilchrist (34:26)

Thank you for having me. And, you know, nothing but controversy surrounds this president. And frankly. But no, but like the damage that he is doing to people practically in Michigan, to our economy in Michigan, and also the damage he does principally to just how we think of ourselves as Americans. What is it? What does the rule of law. He is, he's, he's a deeply, deeply dangerous and problematic person. I mean, just even the announcements last night with these travel bans from Middle Eastern and African countries, I mean, that deeply impacts the state of Michigan. We have the largest population of people from Arab American countries in the Middle east in the country here in the Detroit area, actually, cities like Dearborn and Dearborn Heights and Melvindale. And that, that directly impacts people and their families. It's just really problematic.

David Pakman (35:17)

One of the things I think is really interesting about Michigan, and this is, this is a generalization, but that I think is representative of something interesting in the Democratic Party, which was when we looked, for example, at the 2020 primary, and if you looked on Reddit and Twitter, it seemed as though there was a lot more support, for example, for like a Bernie Sanders than maybe there was. And I say this as someone who supported Bernie, and ultimately, when it became clear he wouldn't be the nominee, I supported Joe Biden. One of the things I think is interesting about Michigan is Michigan is a place where you have manufacturing is important, union work is important. And there's a lot of. There's this idea of the Democrats who are not as caught up in the Internet milieu, but are really going to work putting food on the table for their family, evaluating who's the best candidate for, for me voting in that way and then kind of getting back to work. And my interpretation in 2020 was that this is a slightly more moderate Democratic Party in Michigan than maybe you see on Reddit and Twitter. Is my interpretation or assessment accurate in your estimation?

Garland Gilchrist (36:33)

To sum this up in one sentence, you're like, the Internet is not real life. And so, so I understand that. I'm saying that as look I'm a software entrepreneur and a tech guy, so that's like the ironic iron. I wouldn't be saying. I think that if you actually talk to people in Michigan, they are very practical about problem solving and what their challenges are. And who's gonna speak to the energy, the frustration that they have. And I'm saying this, you ain't gotta apologize. I voted for Bernie in the Democratic primary in Michigan, too. That's okay. I've been all over Michigan. We have 83 counties across our two peninsulas. We're the largest state physically east of the Mississippi River. I've been all the A3 counties at least three times. I talk to people for real who live in Michigan, who in Michigan who raise their kids every day. And these voters are not ideological, but what they are like, what is happening for me and my community, who is going to help me see a future and a pathway for me to be more successful, for my kids to be more successful? How the hell am I going to be able to afford to send my kids to daycare, to send my kids to college, to get them prepared for a career? And they want someone who's really going to speak to that energy. And so I do think it is important that everything that we do, everything that we say, every policy that we put forward, every policy we defend, we need to be grounded in those conversations with actual people. And so that's what's driven me as lieutenant governor, is to say that, you know, I am with where the people are, and so that's where my heart is going to be. And so, therefore, with the energy or the passion or the fire that I have for this president, for the way he's doing, absolute damage and destruction to our manufacturing sector, the way that he is, you know, scaring educators out of the field like that, that is catastrophic for our state's future, in our community's future, because people tell me that every single day.

David Pakman (38:21)

Yesterday we spoke to the governor of New Jersey, a state where the margin of victory for Kamala Harris in 2024 was a fraction of what it was for President Biden in 2020 and for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Michigan situation actually was going completely back into the Trump column in the presidential election in November of 2024. What's your interpretation of that? What do you make of that?

Garland Gilchrist (38:46)

I think people wanted to know that whoever they were going to support was as pissed off about the status quo as they were, that things weren't working for them, they weren't getting the results they needed, or certainly they weren't getting the results they needed fast enough, even if progress was happening. And so that's part of why, again, in my conversations, how I come forward is as like, I'm an engineer. Like, I'm not a lawyer like most these other political people. Like, I'm an engineer, problem solver, someone who wants to get in there and listen to people and then build a solution and make a system work for people. And when people are frustrated with the system, they want someone to either change the system or set the system on fire. We need to make changing more attractive than the destruction that Donald Trump offered. And we didn't do that in as compelling of a way because people didn't see us matching their energy. But do you.

David Pakman (39:32)

Do you put that, just to be clear, do you put that on feelings about what Joe Biden had done in the preceding four years or feelings about what candidate Harris was offering, or a combination of the two?

Garland Gilchrist (39:44)

I don't think it's one or the other. I mean, I think it's. And I also don't know that it's specifically even just about the four years of the Biden administration. I mean, if you look at, for example, the way that we have pursued, you know, the way we pursue free trade hasn't worked out that great for a lot of people in the state of Michigan as far as, like, you know, seeing jobs go to Mexico to see manufacturing facilities close, to see plants turn down shifts, things like that. Like that hasn't really worked well. We need to be able to sell stuff all over the world, but we gotta do it in a way that makes sure that supports our jobs. Now, what I also see, though, here in Michigan is that folks do not believe there's no coherence with Trump's approach to this. Right? Like, he's not doing things that are actually going to grow our economy or make sure that people can actually create those jobs here in Michigan. And so they have seen that and are like, man, we actually didn't get what he was selling. He's not giving us what he was selling because he's a liar. And so now our opportunity, though, is to offer a vision that says, we have seen that this system isn't working for you. Let's make it work. Let's build something that creates so that Michigan, for example, can make the things that matter going forward, whether it's in mobility, whether it's in chips or whatever, it needs to be, that we can prepare our people to take advantage of that so that you can see a pathway for our communities to not just re industrialize, but again the things that matter going forward.

David Pakman (41:04)

On the manufacturing jobs, you know, we hear all of this talk about reshoring and bringing supply chains back home. And of course that's something countries can do. In a lot of these industries it would take around a decade to actually do it. By the time you build the capacity and plants are up and running and higher. Ok, but one of the things that's missing from the conversation when the President just kind of flippantly says that is that we have 50000 available manufacturing jobs in the United States right now. Now a fraction of those are in Michigan. They're not all in Michigan, but some of them are. What is your explanation for why those jobs are going unfilled? Some ideas that are floated are, well, the wages being offered simply aren't attractive enough for the work. Or there's the perception by some that these are not jobs that Americans, quote, want to do. What if we have this many open jobs right now that really puts a question mark around the reshoring. But what is your thought as to why these jobs are remaining open?

Garland Gilchrist (42:05)

Yeah, I think about, I don't think about it necessarily in terms of reshoring. Again, what I think about in terms of, you know, what do we need to make and build going forward and how can we make sure our people are best positioned for that? And one of those reasons, when you talk to those who, the companies and people who are hiring for those jobs, what they'll say is we need people with particular sets of skills and credentials and we need to make sure that we're supporting an education and a training system that can give people those credentials. Now I've asked those employers to therefore put some skin in the game or put up some resources and partner with us so that we can as a state. Whereas they'll make sure Michiganders have those skills. And we've seen some progress on that. Like now we, you know, guarantee community college for every kid that's graduated from high school in the state of Michigan, starting last school year. So like the kids I spoke at Oak Park High School just outside of Detroit. All those kids can go to community college for free tuition free if they, if they want to. We also have stuff for people in different points of their career. We've sort of targeted certain sectors where we know a lot of those openings are and ask those employers to come to the table. What are the things that you actually need? What does a person need to be successful in this job? Then help us work with our Education systems to design programs to meet that. So the first thing I hear about is, yes, we have these openings, but these openings require particular things and we haven't seen the scale of people who have matched those credentials to get it done. So we can, we. They need to do the work to make sure they pay enough and to do the work to make sure they have benefits and are good jobs that are, that are respectable. And we need to make sure we're positioning people for that success. So I think we have to do multiple things in order to make this work. But the last thing I'll say is really important that again, this is less about like recreating something that was in the past. This needs to be forward looking about what are the industries that are going to be most important to the country and to the world and how can we make sure that America and Americans are positioned to lead in those industries. And that is certainly true of the state of Michigan. So what can we build? How do we prepare people to build those? Prepare people to start those businesses and take those jobs? And that is where our focus is. That is where my focus is. And that's just because, look, I'm an engineer who's always looking forward. So I was looking for how do we make sure we're positioned to, to do what Wayne Gretzky said, which escape where the puck is going. And that's what we got to do to lead.

David Pakman (44:20)

I want to dig now even further into manufacturing, specifically into automotive. Yeah. Now I come to you with these questions because I think you know more about it than I do. My understanding is that the framework that was established by USMCA during Donald Trump's first term encouraged the manufacturing in tandem between Canada, US And Mexico. In other words, let's bring it into these three countries from further out and reward that. That. But my understanding is that the blanket tariffs now that involve Canada and Mexico would actually punish the companies that did what USMCA was meant to encourage. Is my interpretation correct? And talk a little bit about how this will all affect automotive in Michigan.

Garland Gilchrist (45:08)

So your interpretation is pretty much on point. And frankly, what it represents though, to even zoom out a little bit, David, is that, you know, Trump calls himself a deal maker, but clearly the deals that he makes are like, worth toilet paper, man. Like, I mean, he, this you talk about, USMCA was a deal that he crafted. Yeah, he cut, but now is something that he is absolutely undermining. And so these businesses who employ a lot of people in the state of Michigan are now like, well, what are we supposed to do like we. We worked with you to get this deal, we complied with it, and now you are yanking the chair from under us. So it just shows to how untrustworthy and incompetent this man and his team are. They're not committed to the success of Michiganders. They're not committed to the success of this industry. I don't know what their goals are. They haven't really even articulated them. So I think what. What we are trying to provide, at least at the state level, is to say, look for the instability and calamity that you're getting out of Washington. We want to give you a different kind of energy here in the state of Michigan. We'll be your partner to go and to try to negotiate and advocate, to make sure you have the seat at the table, to get the clarity that you need to plan. Because for their lack of planning, when they can't plan, it means they can't put shifts on. For Michiganders, it means that people can't put food on the table. It means that people can't send their kids to a summer camp that'll be coming into the summer. There are real practical implications of that and to those choices being made by this administration.

David Pakman (46:39)

I want to talk a little bit about your engineering and tech background that you mentioned. You know, one of the funny things in politics is that candidates and elected officials, no matter what their background is, say that their background is really well suited to the job that they either have or are trying to get. And one of the interesting things is Vivek Ramaswamy has talked up his background as a startup entrepreneur. Tech guy Elon Musk, we were told his background makes him perfectly suited to figure out what's wasteful in government. Where's the fraud and abuse? Let's find it. Let's fire these people, lay these others. It all has kind of imploded. Right. So one of the things that I think is clear is that background is interesting, but how it's applied to the job of government is maybe the more critical part. So talk a little bit about that. Because while I've said we need more than just lawyers as elected officials, there's no doubt about it. We need more than just like big business, you know, people like a Mark Wayne Mullen type. We need to go further. But that's not a guarantee that a different background is necessarily suited to the job, if you know what I mean, 100%.

Garland Gilchrist (47:44)

What it means is, for me, look, as a kid who got a computer when I was five years old, who was a software engineer at Microsoft, and it started and sold two technology companies. All that means is that as an engineer, my job is to make systems work for people. The difference between what Elon Musk did to the federal government is when they say efficiency, all they mean is firing people and breaking things. What I am focused on as my engineering is about effectiveness, how to make something actually work for people, deliver value for people, to create something that they can depend on and trust and rely on. They are using technology and technology skills to break people's trust, to make things not work for people, or to only work for a few, or for them personally. Which is what I see with Musk trying to get this data to feed into his own AI system. Yeah, I think so. For me here and for Michigan, in a state that has made the things that mattered for a century, understanding sort of where technology is going and how we can make sure that we're positioned to make things that matter going forward. Because these changes, whether it's artificial intelligence and large language models, they're going to have a tremendous influence on our education system and on our economy going forward. And I don't want Michiganders to be left out or left behind. I want us to lead. And so I think having a leader who can understand those things, who's not intimidated by who, when these companies come in and try to have a meeting with me, I'm going to be able to call them. When they try to lie to me and tell me something that's not true, I think we need someone that kind of credibility in the room. But you must connect that to the actual experiences of people. And so when I spend time on the ground all over the state of Michigan, or when I think about my own kids again, my twins who are graduating from the sixth grade and my baby girls graduating from kindergarten, when I talk to their friends, their friends as parents, their education professionals who are in front of them, needing to be grounded in those experiences so that they can trust that I'm going to be the person who's going to have them in the room with me when we are doing the things to do and negotiating what we need to negotiate from a policy standpoint, a program standpoint, and even a practice standpoint for how we do things in Michigan. That's what the next governor, I think, of our state needs to be able to do, do. As a governor, it's different than a legislator or like a senator. Right. Your job is not to sort of be sort of one voice in this cacophony that is the U.S. capitol. It's to be someone who can deliver for people and stand for our values and get things done. And that's what engineers and problem solvers do, is make things that are effective for people. And I've delivered results like that on the issues that matter across the state of Michigan. And I'll do that continuing going forward as go governor.

David Pakman (50:19)

Yeah, listen, not to make technology and technocracy the number one thing, but if you saw some of those hearings with the TikTok CEO and you saw the caliber of the questions that were being asked by, by people who clearly did not even understand what they were asking, scary stuff. That that is becoming a growing core competency, I think for anyone who wants to be taken seriously in the political space.

Garland Gilchrist (50:40)

That's right. And you know, look, there's work to do. But I think you have a lot of people who are ready to step up and step in in a way because frankly, they're like me. They're offended that they've. That they've seen people just bastardize what it means to have technical competency and use it to hurt people. Well, I'm not in. I'm not doing this to, to do anything but position people for success, to position our communities for success. And so using those powers for good, I think is. Is what we need to think about.

David Pakman (51:07)

We've been speaking with Michigan's Lieutenant Governor Garland Gilchrist, who's also running for governor in the state of Michigan. Really appreciate your time today. Thanks so much.

Garland Gilchrist (51:15)

Thanks for having me, David.

David Pakman (51:17)

Every year I find myself asking the same question. What do I get for the fathers in my life who say they don't need anything? Couple years ago, I nailed it. I gave my dad an Aura digital photo frame. Now I can say it is something he actually uses every day. Aura was named the number one digital picture frame by Wirecutter. Easy to see why you get unlimited photo and video storage. No subscription. Setup takes just a few minutes. You plug it in, connect to WI Fi and send pictures from anywhere. We were just on a trip last week. Uploaded pictures of my daughter. They show up on the frame in my dad's house. Baby photos, vacation pictures, memes. You can put whatever you want in there. And right now, Aura has a Father's Day deal just for my audience. Get $30 off their bestselling Carver mat frame at aura frames.com when you use code pacman at checkout, that's a U R A frames.com use code packman for $30 off their bestselling Carver Mat frame terms and conditions may apply. All of the info is in the podcast notes. Well, Donald Trump has reemerged like a phoenix rising over the horizon after three days or four days with public events. And it might have been better if he hadn't, because what came out of his mouth was so disjointed, a mess of lies and delusion and absolute gibberish. And by the way, with terrible audio, just complete, I think Antifa might have been running the mics for this event. This was the summer soiree on the White House South Lawn. Trump, starting with an absolute whopper about grocery prices and gas prices, just fabricated numbers. A really strange moment, not clear what he's referring to. Seems completely addled, and they just can't get the audio right. Poor guy.

Donald Trump (53:21)

In the last administration, in my opinion, the most unsuccessful administration maybe in the history of our country, grocery prices went through the roof while grocery prices now are down, down. You remember they were talking about eggs. My first week in office, the press was screaming about eggs. Eggs got up. Two eggs, 187%. I said, I'm sorry, I just got here, and the eggs went up. Now the eggs are down at the same price anywhere. We got them all the way down. And we had. Three weeks ago, for Easter, we had an egg hunt, an egg roll, they called it. And he said, sir, can you order, a couple of months ago, could you order plastic eggs? I said, we're not ordering plastic eggs. And by the time we had the event, eggs were all the way down. But think of the Grocery prices are down, gasoline prices are down, and we're down just in time, $1. We had numerous days, $1.98 a gallon.

David Pakman (54:21)

So I looked for that information. I was not able to find a single state in which gas was A$98 on Memorial Day. Big picture, gas prices are up a little since Trump took office, not a lot. And just to be clear, I don't put a lot of stock in gas prices as something presidents control. You all know that. But he's just lying about gas prices. They were around 304 a gallon on average when he took office. Right now, they're about 312. It's not a lot higher. It's like 2, 3% higher, but they're certainly not lower. And then as far as grocery prices go, grocery prices aren't down. They are rising slowly, as they were at the end of Joe Biden's presidency, along with inflation being between 2 and 2 and a half percent. So grocery prices are sort of steady, up a little bit over the last four months. Trump's just not dealing in reality here. He's, I guess, trying to rewrite it. And this only gets weirder. Trump then going into talking about a team and hiring and appointments and fill rates, and he has a waiting list, completely feeble, just gibberish coming out of his mouth.

Donald Trump (55:28)

You really are. And someday one of you, maybe two of you or three of you will be standing right here saying very similar words. I hope you're saying similar words. That's a real possibility because this really is this greatness in this crowd, that greatness. You might not even know that, but there's greatness in this crowd. The caliber of talent we've assembled is unparalleled. And this is really the strongest, most talented team that we've had. And I think that this government has had in a long time and maybe ever. I really think this could be the best team we worked.

David Pakman (56:04)

If you're struggling to follow this, you're not alone.

Donald Trump (56:07)

Just 135 days. We've hired over 3200 patriots to deliver on the mandate that we received in November. November 5th. We want to go down as one of the most important days in the history of our country. That's election Day. We're going to make it the most important day. And as of Tonight, we filled 91% of our political appointments.

David Pakman (56:34)

And it, it's not even clear what he's talking about. I don't even know that he knows what year it is from the way this guy is talking, what mandate he imagines he got. It's not a rally, but he sounds like he's giving a job fair speech at some kind of fantasy White House that exists only in his own mind. And then in a completely surreal moment, he again talks about how he brought back 5 trillion from the Middle East. He makes it sound like he brought back duffel back duffel bags full of cash and he got a free plane with it as a bonus.

Donald Trump (57:05)

But six months ago, we had a nation that was as cold as ice. It was cold. The whole world was laughing at us. And they're not laughing anymore. That I can tell you now because of the people here tonight. We have the hottest, most talked about country anywhere in the world.

David Pakman (57:24)

It's hot.

Donald Trump (57:25)

I went to the Middle east. We went to Qatar, Saudi Arabia, we went to UAE, we went to three shops. We brought back $5.1 trillion. Think of that. 5.1. They ordered massive amounts of military equipment, regular equipment, 200 Boeing aircraft. And we got one for free for the nation You've been hearing that United States Air Force got one for free and saying, I'd like one because we need it as Air Force One until the other ones are done. And they said, we would be pleased to give you. So they gave us a Boeing 747 for the United States Air Force. And every. It's just incredible. The press picked it up and they said he got a plane and he got a plane, they got a plane. But that's the way it is, you know, as you deal with the fake news.

David Pakman (58:15)

Yeah, none of that makes any sense, as I'm sure you can tell who's they who was trying to buy 200 planes. Where is this 5 trillion he claims he got? He's bragging about getting a free plane, but it's also not for him. And it's also kind of not free. It's complete incoherence. And this is the guy that Republicans are saying is fit to run the country, but he is rambling through completely hallucinated timelines, imaginary transactions and made up numbers. And it's really like watching someone act out a fever dream on national tv. He should have stayed hidden for a fourth or fifth day, whatever it ultimately ended up being. And it raises again the question, who's actually in charge? Because this is what he's up to. With almost nothing on his public calendar, who's actually making the decisions? And it seems to be people with even worse, worse instincts than Donald Trump. The Trump Elon bromance is over and Republicans are now admitting it out loud. House Speaker Maga Mike Johnson, who reportedly talks to Trump multiple times a day, is now confirming Trump is not happy with what's going on with Elon Musk. And he's using careful language that I think we need to interpret for what it really means, calls him back.

MAGA Mike Johnson (59:28)

Today. I've talked to, I talked to President Trump, you know, all the time, multiple times a day. Oh, yeah, obviously we've talked about this. He's, as you know, he's not, he's not delighted that elon did a 180 on that. But look, I don't know what happened in 24 hours. Everybody can draw their own conclusions about that. Okay?

David Pakman (59:46)

Right.

MAGA Mike Johnson (59:47)

But I look forward to talking to my friend about it again. And I'm not upset about it. All right?

David Pakman (59:51)

Yeah, Olivia, he's not upset whatsoever. So Trump isn't pleased. Is political speak for. Trump is absolutely furious. This all started after Elon Musk torched Trump's budget as a disgusting abomination. We talked about that earlier this week. And now MAGA Mike Johnson is also saying he tried to call Elon Musk, but Elon didn't pick up the phone.

MAGA Mike Johnson (60:16)

What do you think changed?

David Pakman (60:18)

Why do you think he's coming out against this now? And have you spoken to the president and Elon since the infamous tweet?

MAGA Mike Johnson (60:25)

Well, I'll tell you, I called Elon last night. He didn't answer, but I hope to talk to him today. I mean, it's not, you know, it's very friendly and, and we can, and we've laughed about our differences on policy before. Oh, yeah, I'm not upset.

David Pakman (60:37)

It's just a barrel of laughs about this.

MAGA Mike Johnson (60:39)

And I just, Elon Musk, who is.

David Pakman (60:41)

Known to have a great sense of.

MAGA Mike Johnson (60:42)

Humor, I think he understands and he's acknowledged to me before that this is so serious that we can't fool around with it. I mean, the debt cliff is approaching very quickly. Right? All the things that are in this bill are so important for the US Economy. It's going to be jet fuel for the US Economy.

David Pakman (60:57)

All right, so the point here is he called Elon. Elon didn't quite take his phone call. MAGA Mike Johnson asked, what about the midterms? Is this going to be a problem for the midterms? And he says, oh, no, no, no. When the big, beautiful bill passes, everybody's going to do so well. We're going to absolutely crush in the midterms.

MAGA Mike Johnson (61:18)

And then Yesterday, you know, 24 hours later, he does a 180 and he comes out and opposed the bill. And it surprised me, frankly. And I don't take it personal. We don't take it personal. You know, he's, policy differences are not personal. I think he's, he's flat wrong. I think he's, he's way off on this. And I've told him as much and I've said it publicly and privately. I'm very consistent in that. But am I concerned about effect of this on the midterms? I'm not. Let me tell you why. Because when the big beautiful bill is done and signed into law, every single American is going to do better. This bill is geared for middle and working class Americans.

David Pakman (61:52)

And we know, of course, that those are also lies. But, you know, buyer beware. If he's convinced this is going to win everything for them, then so be it. And I think that there's a critical point to make about this. Trump Musk, disagreement on the bill. Neither of these guys is the good guy here. Trump's budget is a scam. And Elon Musk's motives are entirely selfish. And the reason they're turning on each other is because their egos collided and their priorities collided. Elon Musk is now worried about what's best for my business here, what's best for me, as he is getting kicked out, slash leaving Doge and government. And Trump wants a political accomplishment, and that's what this is really about. You know, I get, oh, Elon's ideologically opposed to what's in the bill. Yeah, maybe, but that's irrelevant if it were good for him personally. And that's what really this is about. Final note, the fact that even Steve Bannon is now saying we got to tax the rich is further proof of the insanity of where we find ourselves. One thing, if you want to stop.

Donald Trump (62:49)

The dead bomb, Elon and the guys.

MAGA Mike Johnson (62:53)

On Capitol Hill, you're going to have to raise taxes.

David Pakman (62:57)

The wealthy can't get an extension of the tax. Tax cut. That's got to go.

MAGA Mike Johnson (63:01)

The middle class and the working class.

David Pakman (63:03)

Oh, that has to be extended.

MAGA Mike Johnson (63:04)

It has to be made permanent at 40%. The top bracket or 40%, you pick.

Donald Trump (63:10)

Them, that's got to go to 39.

MAGA Mike Johnson (63:13)

Go back to 30, snap back to 39 and a half percent and go to 40.

Donald Trump (63:16)

The math simply doesn't work. Have I not said this 2 billion times?

David Pakman (63:21)

And of course, all the, all the.

MAGA Mike Johnson (63:23)

Lackeys for the wealthy, right.

David Pakman (63:26)

Here's a debt bomb.

MAGA Mike Johnson (63:27)

And Ron John and other people are working on, on, I think, quite smart.

David Pakman (63:31)

Changes that can be made to the big beautiful bill.

MAGA Mike Johnson (63:34)

But now it's in basically turmoil and chaos.

David Pakman (63:36)

This is a guy who used to openly campaign for economic accelerationist collapse, and even he knows the budget is indefensible. But of course, he's also trying to pick sides carefully here. And what we are seeing is less a clash of ideas. It's presented as a clash of ideas and principles. This is a civil war of narcissism. Elon, Trump, Johnson, Bannon, they're clawing for control of a party with no vision. It's a party with slogans and resentment and chaos, and they don't even know what they're doing. But to the extent that the civil war is going to hamper them, let's push it. On the bonus show today, the big beautiful bill's progress has stalled in the Senate. That's the next issue. We will talk about it. We are also going to discuss this big, controversial departure from the Democratic Party of Joe Biden's former press secretary, Karine Jean Pierre. I find it all very low energy. And finally, Caroline Levitt has ditched her big cross necklace after Jon Stewart made fun of her. All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Don't miss it. Sign up@join pacman.com look forward to seeing you there. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsynads. Com. That's L I B S Y N ads.com today.