7/8/25: Trump played like a fiddle as troops descend on Los Angeles park

Summary

Podcast Summary: The David Pakman Show – July 8, 2025

Title: Trump Played Like a Fiddle as Troops Descend on Los Angeles Park
Host: David Pakman
Release Date: July 8, 2025

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I. Authoritarian Signs in Los Angeles: Federal Troops in MacArthur Park

David Pakman opens the episode by highlighting a concerning incident in Los Angeles' MacArthur Park, suggesting it as a potential sign of rising authoritarianism in the United States.

• [00:07] Pakman describes the overwhelming federal presence:

  "Federal agents, some marching in line, some on foot, some on horse, dressed in fatigues, masks and helmets, backed by armored vehicles."

• [01:31] Charlie Kirk corroborates the on-ground situation:

  "By MacArthur Park where you can see law enforcement and troops, airborne police right now."

• [01:55] Mayor Karen Bass voices alarm:

  "It looked like a city under siege, under an armed occupation. It looked the way cities look before a coup."

Pakman draws parallels to historical instances where authoritarian regimes test societal limits, emphasizing the unsettling display of military might in a civilian neighborhood. He warns that such actions could be a precursor to more severe undemocratic measures, noting the Department of Homeland Security's vague explanations and the strategic intimidation intended to suppress dissent.

II. Epstein Client List Controversy

The discussion shifts to the contentious issue surrounding Jeffrey Epstein's client list, with Pakman scrutinizing the Department of Justice's (DOJ) and FBI's handling of the matter.

• [07:20] Pam Bondi questions the nonexistent list:

  "According to the report, this systematic review revealed no incriminating client list. So what happened to the Epstein client list that the Attorney General said she had on her desk?"

• [09:08] Caroline Levitt attempts to deflect:

  "Yes, she was saying the entirety of all of the paperwork, all of the paper in relation to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes."

Pakman critiques Levitt's evasive responses, suggesting that the DOJ and FBI may be withholding critical information to protect high-profile individuals, potentially including Donald Trump. He highlights the dissonance between prior assertions of possessing a list and the subsequent denial of its existence, fueling conspiracy theories among MAGA supporters. This controversy underscores the administration's challenges in maintaining transparency and accountability.

III. Trump’s Tariff Strategy and Trade Letters

A significant portion of the episode delves into Donald Trump's inconsistent approach to trade tariffs, focusing on his failure to deliver promised trade deals and the resultant economic implications.

• [25:06] Ted Cruz inquires about tariff delays:

  "Why did the president decide to have those tariffs not take effect Wednesday as originally scheduled?"

• [26:53] Caroline Levitt insists on the firmness of the new deadline:

  "There will be no change to this date and there will be no change."

Pakman criticizes Trump's erratic tariff policies, labeling them as a sign of indecisiveness rather than strategic strength. He points out the minimal progress on trade deals despite numerous letters sent to various countries, raising concerns about the potential economic fallout for American consumers, including increased prices on cars, electronics, and industrial goods. Pakman argues that Trump's unpredictability undermines international confidence and damages the U.S. economy.

IV. Interaction with Netanyahu and Nobel Peace Prize Nomination

Pakman addresses a recent White House dinner where Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu nominated Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize, exposing what he perceives as manipulative flattery.

• [75:17] Trump responds enthusiastically to Netanyahu's nomination:

  "I'm very meaningful. Thank you very much. Coming from you in particular, this is very meaningful."

Pakman contends that Netanyahu's nomination is a strategic ploy to curry favor and secure Trump's support amidst Netanyahu's own political challenges, particularly regarding the Gaza conflict. He emphasizes Trump's susceptibility to manipulation through excessive flattery, showcasing the president's vulnerability to influence by allied leaders. This interaction reflects broader concerns about Trump's leadership style and the implications for U.S.-Israel relations.

V. Discussion with Brian Tyler Cohen on Independent Media and Political Strategy

A substantial segment features a dialogue between David Pakman and Brian Tyler Cohen, host of Charlie Kirk’s Substack Live, focusing on the role and challenges of independent progressive media in the current political landscape.

• [41:27] Pakman and Cohen discuss the effectiveness of independent media:

  "Independent creators have a vested interest in actually seeing. Seeing a virtuous process play out, which is to stop this bill that's gonna cut Medicaid."

• [52:46] Cohen addresses personal risks:

  "There is inherent risk in doing this from the administration. Absolutely."

• [58:12] They explore the lack of an affirmative plan from Democrats:

  "I don't see an affirmative plan for the Democrats to go out and say, here's why you should vote for us other than we are."

• [66:47] The conversation touches on engaging non-voters:

  "We need to flood the zone. We need to be decentralized. We need to be very democratized."

Cohen emphasizes the necessity of building a robust, decentralized left-wing media ecosystem to counterbalance the more centralized and resource-rich right-wing media. He advocates for activist-oriented journalism that not only informs but also mobilizes listeners to take action, such as contacting senators or participating in grassroots movements. The discussion highlights the strategic imperative for progressive media to present clear, affirmative messages beyond anti-Republican rhetoric to effectively engage and expand their audience base.

VI. Conclusion and Final Remarks

David Pakman wraps up the episode by summarizing the key themes:

• Authoritarian Tendencies: The deployment of federal troops in LA as a potential sign of increasing authoritarianism.

• Transparency Issues: The ongoing controversy surrounding the Epstein client list and the administration's lack of clear communication.

• Economic Policies: Criticism of Trump's inconsistent tariff strategies and their detrimental impact on the U.S. economy.

• Political Manipulation: Netanyahu's strategic flattery of Trump as indicative of broader geopolitical maneuvering.

• Media Strategy: The vital role of independent progressive media in shaping political discourse and combating authoritarian tendencies.

Pakman underscores the importance of vigilance, transparency, and strategic communication in maintaining democratic institutions and countering undemocratic forces.

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Notable Quotes:

• David Pakman [00:07]:

  "An authoritarian nightmare building in Los Angeles. Is it a preview of martial law is increasingly the question."

• Mayor Karen Bass [01:55]:

  "It looked like a city under siege, under an armed occupation."

• Caroline Levitt [26:53]:

  "They will take the letters seriously because they have taken the president seriously."

• Brian Tyler Cohen [52:46]:

  "There is inherent risk in doing this from the administration. Absolutely."

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This episode of The David Pakman Show provides a comprehensive analysis of recent political developments, highlighting potential threats to democracy, controversies within the Trump administration, and the critical role of independent media in fostering informed and engaged citizenship.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Welcome to the show. An authoritarian nightmare building in Los Angeles. Is it a preview of martial law is increasingly the question. We know from looking at history what it looks like when authoritarians start testing the limits. And one of the things that we are now seeing yesterday in MacArthur park in Los Angeles, a neighborhood known as the Ellis island of the west coast flooded with federal agents, some marching in line, some not, some on foot, some on horse, dressed in fatigues, masks and helmets, backed by armored vehicles. Overhead, helicopters, kids playing soccer outside were rushed indoors. Health care workers helping unhoused people had guns pointed at them and were told, get out of here. No explanation, no warning, just an overwhelming show of federal force dropping into a neighborhood and then gone. Mayor Karen Bass plainly said it looked like a city under siege, under an armed occupation. It looked the way cities look before a coup. Vince Longman posted the following video to Twitter. Guys, I'm on the ground right now.

[Charlie Kirk]

By MacArthur park where you can see.

[David Pakman]

Law enforcement and troops, airborne police right now.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

I mean, they are here, they are moving in. This is happening right now. Here are the troops.

[David Pakman]

During a Fox News interview, DHS Assistant Secretary McLaughlin, I believe it's Tricia McLaughlin, was asked, what about arresting the mayor of Los Angeles, Karen Bass? What about that? And McLaughlin says, We are keeping everything.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

When you have scenes like you did out in L. A today where you have the mayor, Karen Bass, interfering with official federal officer proceedings, trying to enforce the laws that are put on the books by members, duly elected members of Congress, are you all hesitant to just go out and arrest her? Or has it. Has all of this behavior not reached that threshold yet?

[Caroline Levitt]

We're certainly keeping everything on the table, Charlie, But I want to ask Karen.

[Cash Patel]

Bass, who is she protecting?

[David Pakman]

Yeah, we are keeping everything on the table. So understand that this is how it starts. If you're a student of 20th century authoritarianism, you know that you don't necessarily need tanks in the streets, although they have armored vehicles in the streets in Los Angeles. But you do an operation, you don't formally suspend rights, at least not right away. You really surround yourself in the legal gray area, the deployments. You try to generate shrugs from the people in charge. Authoritarians don't typically kick the door down on they. On day one, they test, they probe a little bit, they see who pushes back. Is it Gavin Newsom? Is it Karen Bass? Is it Democrats in Congress? And the truth is that right now, Trump's not getting that much resistance. These were not secret police whisking away dissidents in the night, at least not for now, this was a heavily armed federal force descended onto into a predominantly Latino neighborhood. They didn't coordinate with the city, they didn't coordinate with the state. They terrorized families, businesses and children. And the messaging here is very clear, because when the Department of Homeland Security was pressed for an explanation, their spokesperson said, oh, it's an ongoing operation. That's it. Translation is we don't have to tell you anything. We don't need your permission, or at least we don't care about it. You'd better start getting used to this. So this is bigger than just an immigration stunt. This is one of the main goals of authoritarians create fear. Weeks ago, we had the deployment of 4,000 National Guard troops, 700 Marines to Los Angeles. Now we have this sort of military imagery meant to make Trump look tough, meant to silence critics. It makes it so that immigrant families stay home, businesses suffer. Legal residents are afraid of just getting caught up in the chaos, so they start staying home. And people who have lived in this neighborhood for decades walk around wondering, is today the day that I get mistaken for someone else? Is today the day that I get disappeared into the system? And meanwhile, you see the loyalists, the Trisha McLaughlins, the Caroline Levitts, the Stephen Millers, you see them fantasizing on Fox News about arresting elected officials who push back. So it's authoritarianism with more cameras and social media, and everybody's watching to answer the most important question, how far can they push before someone stops them? So I don't believe that what happened yesterday in MacArthur park has anything to do with border security. I mean, it plainly doesn't have anything to do with border security. It's about dominating, it's about intimidating. It's about how much force can Trump deploy before. Before the public pushes back. If the pushback never comes, he'll go further. If the pushback does come, he might use that to justify even more militarization. So they're doing it in plain sight. Call this a sort of test. But next time, it might not be a test anymore. Yesterday, reportedly, people were not getting arrested. Maybe next time they will. And so we have to be ready for the real thing. Is this a test for martial law? I don't know. I don't have some grand vision of every detail of the plan. But history tells us that this doesn't go in a good direction if what you care about is due process, democracy, and the rule of law, that's for sure. Caroline Levitt, Donald Trump's White House press secretary, just dug his political grave with her totally Failed attempt to walk back the Epstein client list disaster. We're going to dig into this today because it's becoming a very interesting political story. She was asked a very simple question yesterday. What happened to the Epstein client list? It used to be that everybody in the administration was saying, the list, the list, the list. And now the FBI and DOJ are officially saying there is no list. There is no list. Take a listen to this. And there is a lot to talk about here.

[Pam Bondi]

Okay, so the FBI looks at the circumstances surrounding the death of Jeffrey. Jeffrey Epstein. According to the report, this systematic review revealed no incriminating client list. So what happened to the Epstein client list that the Attorney General said she had on her desk?

[Caroline Levitt]

Well, I think if you go back and look at what the Attorney General said in that interview, which was on your network on Fox News, John Roberts.

[Pam Bondi]

Said DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen? And she said, it's sitting on my desk right now. To review.

[Caroline Levitt]

Yes, she was saying the entirety of all of the paperwork, all of the paper in relation to Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. That's what the Attorney General was referring to. And I'll let her speak for that. But again, when it comes to the FBI and the Department of Justice, they are more than committed to ensuring that bad people are put behind bars.

[David Pakman]

So first attempt, this is a tale in obfuscation. First attempt is play off of a semantic or linguistic difference, which is, well, she just met all the paperwork about Epstein is on her desk. She didn't say there is a list in that paperwork. It's just there is paperwork and it's all on her desk. It just turns out there wasn't really a list. So Doocy follows up and he says, well, but. So she said that there was a list. What happened to the list?

[Caroline Levitt]

That's transparency.

[Pam Bondi]

Okay. So the FBI looks at the circumstances surrounding the death of Jeffrey. Jeffrey Epstein. According to the report, this systematic review revealed no incriminating client list. So what happened to the Epstein client list that the Attorney General said, Sorry.

[David Pakman]

And so this. We saw this part already. Let's go back to his fall releasing.

[Pam Bondi]

The list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen? And she said, it's sitting on my desk right now. To review.

[Caroline Levitt]

Yes, she was saying the entirety of all of the paperwork, all of the paper in relation to. To Jeffrey Epstein's crimes. That's what the Attorney General was referring to. And I'll let her speak for that. But again, when it comes to the FBI and the Department of Justice. They are more than committed to ensuring that bad people are put behind bars. They have an operation going on right now called Summer Heat, which has our murder rate trending in the lowest direction in United States history. Their emphasis on violent crime and locking.

[David Pakman]

All right, so you see step two, right? Step one is a semantic argument. She had paperwork, but she didn't have a list. Step two is talk about something completely different. Peter, why aren't you talking about summer, Summer Heat or whatever, you know, whatever summer operation they have going? This primarily seems like it's based around semantics. It appears that they have names, they have dates, they have logs of events, they have videos, and they have pictures, but it's not structured literally as a list. And so that's what they are hiding behind. The problem, of course, is that there have been so many people. It's not just Pam Bondi who said that such a list exists. Cash Patel said the list exists. Even Donald Trump didn't deny it. He just was going back and forth as to whether he wanted to release the list. And so this is now feeding breadcrumbs to maga's favorite conspiracy theorists. Proof, they claim they had, that Trump was finally going to take down the elite pedophile cabal that they've been ranting about. But all of a sudden, the DOJ and the FBI say, we have no list. We have no secret client directory. We have no sealed document that names all of the people that were involved. We've got nothing. Nothing. And so another reporter says to Caroline Levitt, well, now that there is no list, what do you say to the magazines and the Magadonians and the MAGA Potamians who want people held accountable? What do you say to them? And Caroline Levitt just goes, oh, we're locking up all sorts of people. Don't worry about accountability, Caroline.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

The DOJ and FBI have now concluded there was no Jeffrey Epstein client list.

[David Pakman]

What do you tell MAGA supporters who.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

Say they want anyone involved in Jeffrey Epstein alleged crimes to be held accountable?

[Caroline Levitt]

This administration wants anyone who has ever committed a crime to be held accountable. And I would argue this administration has done more to lock up bad guys than certainly the previous administration. And the Trump administration is committed to truth and to transparency. That's why the Attorney General and the FBI director pledged at the President's direction, to do an exhaustive review of.

[David Pakman]

All right, I don't even have to play the whole thing. She's not going to answer. Okay? She's not going to answer the question. If you are a Die hard MAGA believer. And you've been promised for years, Trump is going to expose it. He's going to get all the pedophiles once and for all. Then you have just been betrayed. They ran on this. They use this to justify censorship and a total distrust in institutions. You've been lied to about everything regarding Epstein seen. And then they go, we actually have no list, and there was no foul play. He just died by suicide in his cell. It was all smoke and mirrors, all of the posturing. So Caroline Levitt isn't just failing to clean this up. She's making it worse because she's exposing the gap between what MAGA was sold and what Trump is actually delivering. No list, no arrests. Just another conspiracy theory collapsing under its own weight on live television. Now, the real question, of course, is, is the explanation? Far simpler is the truth that the list exists. They know everybody that was involved, but Trump was involved, and that's why they now aren't releasing it. I'm not even asserting that that's the case, but by their own logic, you have to look at that possibility. Let's dig into the history of the list a little more here. We are now in a full panic mode for maga, where they, on the one hand, have to say, wait a second, we were told that the Epstein list was going to be published. The documents would be out, the arrests would start. Trump was going to do it. But on the other hand, now that the DOJ and the FBI have said there's no list, there's no nothing, they must have to contend at least with the possibility that it's Trump who doesn't want any of it coming out, that Pam Bondi had the list and Trump's on it. And Trump goes, do not release it. Just say there's no list. They must account for that possibility. Remember that in September, Donald Trump said, there's a lot of people who were involved with Jeffrey Epstein, not Trump. No.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

There's a moment where you had some hesitation about Epstein releasing some of the documents on Epstein. Why the hesitation?

[Tricia McLaughlin]

I don't think. I mean, I'm not involved. I never went to his island. Fortunately.

[David Pakman]

Fortunately. Understand that Trump's asked, what about releasing the stuff? And his immediate instinct is to go, I had nothing to do with that whole thing. That's not even what Lex was asking about. He was just saying, why not release it? We then go to Elena Haba Haba, who said, we have flight logs, names and information that will come out. Sure sounds like they have a list.

[Cash Patel]

Don't they Epstein's case, it is incredibly disturbing. We have flight logs, we have information, names that will come out.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

Is it going to be shocking?

[Cash Patel]

I don't see how it's not shocking that there were so many individuals that were hidden and kept secret and not been held accountable. Let's talk about the reverse. I believe in accountability. So you have to now go through your process. Now, I won't say they're guilty until they go through their time in court, but again, now it's time for accountability. We have seen for so many years, Pierce, in this country, many investigations, subpoenas, testimonies in Congress, et cetera, et cetera. But there's a general frustration with accountability. We take it halfway, we don't take it home. And I really believe that now with Cash and Pam, there will be accountability.

[David Pakman]

With Cash and Pam, there's going to be accountability, except Pam is now going, there's no list and Cash Patel is going, there's no list, and everything is exactly as we were told. However, we also have previous video of Cash Patel, now the Director of the FBI. Cash Patel previously said the FBI has Jeffrey Epstein's black book. Black book, of course, being a list of the clients who has Jeffrey Epstein's black book, Black book, FBI. But who that is that.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

I mean, that's under direct control of.

[David Pakman]

The Director of the FBI. Just like the manifesto from the Nashville.

[Charlie Kirk]

School shooting of the Catholic schools.

[David Pakman]

Who there is Cash Patel making that statement declaratively. And then here is Pam Bondi, the Attorney General of the United States, saying, the Epstein client list is sitting on my desk. Not the paperwork is on my desk. The list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?

[Caroline Levitt]

It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files. That's all in the process. Process of being reviewed, because that was done at the directive of the President from all of these agencies.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

So. So have you seen anything that you said?

[David Pakman]

Oh, my gosh, not yet. Certainly didn't see Trump's name. So, listen, why is there this incredible, very loud cognitive dissonance here? Because on the one hand, you have to account for the change in. We've got it. And it's coming out to. There's nothing. It's not just that. We're. We aren't hiding anything. There's just nothing to hide. And you have to account for the possibility that it is to protect Donald Trump. I'm not even asserting that I don't have evidence of that. We know Trump and Epstein were friends, but I don't have evidence that Trump was involved, although there are certainly anecdotal stories that he was. But if you are now in the position of having been one of the people expecting that Trump was going to be the guy sent by God, some even said to fish out all of the pedophiles, how are you not considering that maybe this is a cover up to protect Trump himself? They can't do it. Their brains won't let them do it. 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And also remember that we are growing our base of support not only on our website but also on Substack. You can get on the free substack newsletter@substack. David pakman.com you can also become a Substack paid premium member at that same spot. All great ways to support independent media trying to generate a robust bulwark against the creeping authoritarianism under this administration. Many other shows are doing it to support someone. That's the key thing. I'd be flattered if it were this show, but it's important that we got to support the ecosystem. Donald Trump's press secretary, Caroline Levitt had a full blown panic moment on live TV this week when reporters pressed her on the administration's latest trade disaster. Now you might remember 90 trade deals in 90 days. That was the promise. Those 90 days are up tomorrow. We now have a new thing. It's no longer 90 deals in 90 days. It's tailor made trade plans for each country. In other words, very few deals said.

[Ted Cruz]

Yesterday that countries will boomerang back to the April 2nd tariff level starting August 1st. Why did the president decide to have those tariffs not take effect Wednesday as originally scheduled? And I was also wondering if you could share. Obviously we saw the letters the president sent out on Japan and South Korea, but if any other major US Trading.

[Caroline Levitt]

Partners are getting letters today, sure, yes, I can campaign. In fact, I have those letters. If you could get me the folder with the letters in them. Liz, they're right in the previous office. I have the signed letters that went out to both South Korea and Japan today. And there will be approximately 12 other countries that will receive notifications and letters directly from the President of the United States. And weeks ago I stood at this podium and I told all of you that the president was going to create tailor made trade plans for each and every country on this planet. And that's what this administration continues to be focused on. The president will also sign an executive order today delaying the July 9 deadline to August 1.

[David Pakman]

So in other words, Trump is chickening out again. Now we're going to dig into that further. We're going to dig into that further. But a really great question was asked. A reporter asked an obvious question. Trump imposed tariffs on April 2 and then he paused them. So aren't countries once again going to say these letters Trump paused it again because he realized how damaging it was to the United States. And Caroline Levitt goes, no, this time they're going to take the letters really seriously. This is on the trade letters. Given the fact that the president put in into effect the tariffs on April 2 and then put the pause into place, it is the president at all concerned that these countries that are receiving the letters won't take them seriously because the deadline seems to have shifted already and may shift again.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

Ms.

[Caroline Levitt]

They will take the letters seriously because they have taken the president seriously. And that's why the president's phone, I can tell you, rings off the hook from world leaders all the time who are begging him to come to a deal. And this administration is working hard to ensure those deals are in the best interest of the American community.

[David Pakman]

People. This time they're going to take them really seriously. But seriously, what country is going to take Trump's economic threats in a serious manner when he keeps blinking? This administration talks tough. They impose tariffs, they paused the tariffs. Now they're saying, we're going to reinvent global trade one country at a time with these letters from Trump, which we'll look at the letters in a moment. This is not a strategy. And if you look at Twitter comments and other, you know, commentary, you'll see people say, no, no, this unpredictability is part of the negotiating strategy. But we'd have no evidence of that. We have evidence that Trump is stalling because he knows this would be bad for the country. Trump knows what happened to farmers in his first term. Trump knows what happened to small businesses and manufacturing facilities in his first term from the tariffs. It was a disaster. Then Caroline Levitt goes off on a bizarre tangent, accusing Democrats of pushing depraved lies. Anything she can do to take attention away from what's going on in the Oval Office, which is chaos, unfettered chaos.

[Caroline Levitt]

Unfortunately, in the wake of this once in a generation natural disaster, we have seen many falsehoods pushed by Democrats such as Senator Chuck Schumer and some members of the media. Blaming President Trump for these floods is a depraved lie, and it serves no purpose during this time of national mourning. Here are the facts. In the lead up to this tragic natural disaster, the National Weather Service did its job. Despite unprecedented rainfall, the National Weather Service executed timely and precise forecasts and warnings on July 3. The National Weather Service office in Austin, San Antonio, Texas, conducted forecast briefings for emergency management in the morning and issued a flood flood watch in the early afternoon. Flash flood warnings were also issued on the night of July 3rd and in the early morning of July 4th, giving preliminary lead times of more than three hours before flash flooding conditions occurred. And the National Weather Service office in New Braunfels, which delivers forecasts for Austin, San Antonio and the surrounding areas, had extra staff on duty during the storms despite claims of the contrary. So to any person who has deliberately lied about these facts surrounding this catastrophic event, you should be deeply ashamed. At this time, the administration's focus will be giving on giving the victims in their communities the support they deserve during these recovery efforts in this tragic time.

[David Pakman]

Those evil Democrats saying that the cuts and the indifference from municipal and state authorities and it all made the flooding situation worse. No, they are the depraved liars. And what you can always count on, what you can always count on is that Trump always does the right thing, no matter what. Well, it seems as though Trump is chickening out again. And that's where I want to focus in on another tough sounding deadline, another last minute retreat for Donald Trump. Press Secretary Caroline Lovett announced that Donald Trump is delaying the July 9 tariff deadline to August 1. Supposedly this is to give foreign leaders more time to accept their new tariffs or to cut a deal. Here is the announcement that Trump will be signing an executive order delaying the tariffs again. Translation, we don't really have deals.

[Ted Cruz]

Said yesterday that countries will boomerang back to the April 2nd tariff level starting August 1st. Why did the president decide to have those tariffs not take effect Wednesday as originally scheduled? And then I was also wondering if you could share. Obviously we saw the letters the president sent out on Japan and South Korea, but if any other major US Trading partners are getting letters today.

[Caroline Levitt]

Sure, yes, I can confirm. In fact, I have those letters. If you could get me the folder with the letters in the them lives there, right in the previous office.

[David Pakman]

So this is the clip from before we're resetting and we're going to dig deeper into this.

[Caroline Levitt]

I have the signed letters that went out to both South Korea and Japan today. And there will be approximately 12 other countries that will receive notifications and letters directly from the President of the United States. And weeks ago I stood at this podium and I told all of you that the President was going to create tailor made trade plans for for each and every country on this planet. And that's what this administration continues to be focused on. The president will also sign an executive order today delaying the July 9 deadline to August 1.

[David Pakman]

Okay, so listen, when you say I am pausing the tariffs until July 9th and then the tariffs don't kick in on July 9th. That is a new delay that is chickening out. There is no real reason. You know, they're pretending we need to give countries more time. They had 90 days, and they didn't sense the urgency. They've been saying for 90 days that the phone is ringing off the hook. And yet what we have as of this moment now, by this afternoon, maybe it's different. What we have as of this moment is a pretty crappy deal with Vietnam and a sort of framework with the UK that is certainly not a trade deal. What this exposes is there is really no plan here. It's an executive order kicking the can down the road and pretending that strength is actually indecision or that indecision is actually strength. I think, better said, this is the second time in a matter of weeks that there have been threats of economic punishment. And then they back off when the consequences the United States become clear. And the consequences are going to hit very hard. If the tariff plan went through tomorrow as promised, American consumers would see a spike in prices. They would see cars get more expensive, electronics get more expensive. Industrial goods get more expensive. We import billions of dollars in cars and semiconductors and heavy machinery from Japan and South Korea just alone. A full tariff war with those countries means everything gets way more expensive. Your iPhone gets more expensive if you use one. I don't even know how they work. I'm an Android guy. The car in the driveway gets more expensive. And Trump knows that, or he was convinced of that by his team. So now, instead of taking a hit before potentially, you know, we start to get into midterm season here, he's moving the deadline again. You make a bold announcement. Markets panic. You walk it back. Same damn playbook every single time. At some point, you would think that even his supporters will realize that, that this is not strength, this is actually cowardice. And that Trump's unpredictability, which was touted as a feature, is actually a bug that's making nobody respect him. So Trump wants to pretend he's driving. What's going on? Trump is reacting to what's going on. It's not 4D chess. It's whack a mole. A problem comes up, and Trump tries to whack it down, or beat it off, for lack of a better term. And now we've got to look at these wacky letters that Donald Trump sent out. A frantic Donald Trump sent out demented tariff letters yesterday, causing global horror. Not because countries are afraid of Trump being very tough, but because countries are realizing Trump has not a clue what is going on. Trump posting this morning on Troth Central, as per letters sent to various countries yesterday, plus letters sent today, tomorrow and for the next short period of time. Tariffs will start being paid on August 1st. There has been no change to this date and there will be no change. In other words, all money will be due and payable starting August 1st. No extensions will be granted. Thank you for your attention to this matter. This is bullshit, quite frankly. But I'm going to explain how and why in a moment as you scroll down Trump's Troth Central account. We're not going to look at all of these because it's, you know, I don't want to turn your brain to mush, but every one of these letters is sort of similarly formatted. It includes percentages. This one is to the presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Trump says that starting August 1st, we will be charging 30% tariffs and that it includes other stipulations. And you just scroll down and it's just letter after letter. We'll pick another one. This one is to Serbia. Serbia will get a 35% tariff. We'll scroll down a little more. This next one is to Tunisia. Tunisia will get a discounted tariff of only 25%. This is bonkers insanity. This is not how you do global trade. This is not how you do diplomacy. Every single aspect of this is being framed and contextualized by the people around Trump as strength. The tariffs are on and then they're off. Oh, but that's Trump's negotiating. He's so good. He's making people, world leaders, unsure of what he's going to do, which scares them into submission. Where's the proof that they've been scared into submission? We are 89 days into the 90 day period and there is one bona fide trade deal and one sort of loose pseudo framework. Where's the evidence that they're being scared into submission? Trump says there has been no delay and there will be no further delays. Except we've already had three delays and. And it wouldn't surprise me that there are more because Trump knows or has been told that if he actually does this, it would be a disaster. Just from the last two days of this nonsense, the Dow was down, I think it was 500 points yesterday, and it's down another hundred points as I'm recording today's show. We don't know where it will land. Trump sees the instability. So what is being framed as negotiating prowess is actually incoherence. What is being framed as strategy is actually flailing. And the part that triggers Trump the most is that the world leaders aren't bowing to him, that there weren't world leaders aren't calling and saying, sir, I'm sobbing, we'll do whatever you want. It's just not happening. And so Trump is now trying to figure out in the same way that Putin needs a way to get out of Ukraine while saving face, Trump needs a way to off ramp from this disastrous idea while not looking like the loser that he is. I don't know that he's going to find it, but one of the things I do know is that egomaniacs are more willing to destroy stuff than to admit they made a mistake. And that certainly is Donald Trump. We're going to have more coverage of this on today's bonus show. Make sure you're signed up@join pacman.com and on our substack. I will also be live with Jessica Craven tonight on Substack. You can find it and watch it for free at substack.david pakman.com Go Google your name right now and you'll probably be shocked by how many sketchy websites have your address, phone number, even details about your family. Our sponsor, Incogni, is the solution. It is a service that will force data brokers and people search sites to delete your personal information so scammers, spammers and snoops can't get their hand on it. It's also now part of their unlimited plan that you can do custom removals. You're no longer limited to just the 250 plus sites in their automated system. You can submit any link where your personal info is exposed and Incogni's privacy experts will get it taken down. 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Before they became a sponsor, I was already using a Ridge wallet. I love the design. It's narrow, it holds up to 12 cards. Plus my cash and Ridge wallets are made with premium materials. Aluminum, titanium, carbon fiber, more than 50 colors and styles with RFID blocking technology for extra peace of mind. Ridge products have a lifetime warranty. You literally get the last wallet you'll ever have to buy and they guarantee it for life. And with a 99 day risk free trial, if you change your mind, it's no big deal. Ridge isn't just about wallets. They've also created premium everyday convenience essentials. Key cases, suitcases, rings, all built with the same sleek, durable Design. Go to ridge.com/pacman and use code PACMAN for 10% off. That's ridge.com/pacman. Save 10% with code PAKMAN. The info is in the podcast notes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Welcome everybody to the first of three substack lives in a row. This is a series that really should have some name, but it. But it doesn't. Today I'm going to be talking with Brian Tyler Cohen.

[David Pakman]

Man.

[Charlie Kirk]

Where to start? Is it okay, Brian, if I start with the most obvious question?

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah, go. Go for it. What are we, what are we looking at? What could it possibly be today?

[Charlie Kirk]

James Earl Ray Mark David Chapman? Lee Harvey Oswald, Brian Tyler Cohen. Is it not a little risque to go with the three names?

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

I knew this was coming. I'm not gonna lie and say that I didn't know this was coming. The real reason that I have that I do the three name thing is because I was initially out in Los Angeles because I was, I was acting. I was in the entertainment industry. And when you sign UP on on IMDb, which is the Internet Movie Database, there were 16 other Brian Cohens and I was like, I can't be the 17th Brian Cohen esque and hope that anybody can find me on IMDb so I gotta just use my middle name. And now I'm in an industry where people with three names are generally serial killers. And so this is just how it goes, you know?

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh man. No. Well, we got an answer to that. But in all seriousness, obviously this bill is a big thing today and I don't even.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

And because I've, I've end Because I'm a prolific serial killer also, you know.

[David Pakman]

Which we'll find out about in, like, the third.

[Charlie Kirk]

You've gone from, you know, acting to politics to eventually my third act.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, you know, with the bill, things are moving so quickly. You and I talking about the provisions of the bill. It's almost like, listen, I don't know that that's the. The most interesting thing to focus on, but what. What might be really interesting is I'm sensing something palpably different right now in terms of the role that independent media like us is playing in telling people about what's happening with this bill. And here's what I mean, as impactful as this bill is going to be, the cuts, the way it'll affect people's lives, all that stuff, a lot of people are just busy with their lives, and they're not engaged in the way of, like, let me call the funders of the. The members of the Senate that are borderline, or let me tell my family about what's going on. I'm getting the sense that with all of the progressive independent producers doing all the stuff that we're doing, including the people who are like, first to TikTok and not beyond us, we seem to be breaking through into getting floods of phone calls to senators offices, calls to funders, like, something different seems to be happening. I don't know if you agree.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah. And I think the biggest reason is because there feels like when we regularly get our news from legacy media, there isn't. First of all, they're not gonna offer up calls to action, because that's not what they do. And that's not part of. These are not activists. These are just news people, often, you know, to a fault, focused on neutrality. But I think, too, there is a sense with independent creators that we're in this as well. And so if we ask, for example, hey, it's to call your senator because the vote is happening right now. These are just, you know, your peers asking you to do something that they themselves are doing. I mean, when I'm, you know, when I ask people to call their Senate, I believe the switchboard is 202. Is it 224. 3121. I mean, it's because I called. You know what I mean? And so this is the first time in political media where folks are actually getting news from other people who have a vested interest in actually seeing. Seeing a virtuous process play out, which is to stop this bill that's gonna cut Medicaid. That's Gonna cut food stamps, it's gonna explode the deficit. And so that's the difference there is you're not gonna watch CNN or MSNBC and they're gonna say, hey, make sure to call your senators at the end of this segment. They're gonna say, hey, first of all, they're not gonna do that. And second of all, they're probably gonna use some sanitized language like, you know, feud erupts as both sides discuss the virtues and merits of.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

Making sure that.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

This bill gets passed or doesn't get passed.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think this is one of the interesting differences about what we do and what happens on some of the legacy networks. And you and I have talked about this before when we've seen people do the transition from corporate to independent media, which is some people just want the sanitized thing.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

They want the chiron at the bottom that goes five minute debate as to whether climate change is real. Each side gets two and a half minutes with some anchor that you don't.

[David Pakman]

Relate to in any way.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

There are people that want to be watching, more activisty types. I don't know that I call myself an activist per se, but it's definitely activist media in the sense of the relationship is more direct. And we're saying, hey, we're in this with you. We're not giving you this on the one hand, on the other hand thing. Now you might just disagree with our conclusions, which is fine.

[David Pakman]

And then we debate them.

[Charlie Kirk]

We. But I think that there is something different about this whole ecosystem and the connection where we have a shared goal here. Let's figure out how to work towards it.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah. And I mean, that's lending itself to the point that I made before, which is this sense that like, this is, these are regular people. Like I didn't get my start working on some network somewhere. You didn't get your start working on some network somewhere. And so we have a vested interest in. We're doing this because you want to see something good happen. I mean, I'm in this because like the things that fuel me are to make sure that we can combat climate change. Right? To make sure that as many people have healthcare as possible, to make sure there are as few guns on the streets or that they are, that they are as difficult to procure as possible and on and on. And so that's my driving force in doing this. It is not to like make sure that somebody gets some sanitized version of breaking news or that, you know, that I can, that I can keep both sides. I don't care about both sides. Like, I'm, I'm in this to, I'm in this because I want to see some things. I want to see aspects of the, our agenda that I believe in get passed. And so that's kind of my, my North Star in all of this. I mean, really, really, the reason that I do all of this is because, like, I've, I've thought about this a lot and, and, and the thing I think that drives me is like, we are here for but a fleeting moment, 75 years, 80 years, whatever it may be. I want to see people live with as much dignity and live with as much dignity as they possibly can in that short amount of time. And so whatever I can do to make that, to make that more viable, then that's gonna be like, that's gonna be what, what drives every decision that I make. And so I don't know if you wanna call it, if you wanna call it activist journalism or just some basic sense of humanity, but that' I think about everything.

[Charlie Kirk]

Sometimes it's important kind of to be a little cagey and not to show all your cards in some places. But one thing that I've been really honest with my audience about is I have concern that this time around, as compared to Trump's first term, 2017-2021, that we are much more on the radar of this administration.

[David Pakman]

I know for a fact that there.

[Charlie Kirk]

Are staffers in this White House that pay attention to what you and I are doing, and we've seen the encroachment upon the space we exist in as it grows. How concerned are you, I guess, on a personal level and for the movement, because it's also not just about any of us individuals, but about the movement and the, you know, the billions of.

[David Pakman]

Views in the aggregate that are being.

[Charlie Kirk]

Accumulated here, that as you get more successful, you also become more of a target.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah. So I think that there's another element to that, and that is as you become more successful, you become more of a target. But as you continue to grow, you actually become more, more and more difficult for them to be able to quash dissent from, to silence. And so I think that there is a vested interest, once you've started, to make sure that you keep going all the way, because it's going to be a hell of a lot more difficult to take away somebody's social media feed. The more subscribers, the more followers they have, the bigger their voice is. And so know for somebody like me, I'm, I'm, I'm in it. So you might as well just go, go, go the. To the end zone with it. Right. In terms of personal risk, I. I have thought about this a lot, and I. I thought about it mostly in the lead up to the election, and there was a lot of, you know, I spoke with my family a lot about it. There was. I. I was. I was really worried about it. And I think now that's just kind of. I think that's kind of subsided in deference to just using the platform that I'm lucky enough to have to make sure to reach as many people and inform them on what's going on while I can. Like, do I think that. Do I think that there is inherent risk in doing this from the administration? Absolutely. And from, you know, the crazy people who are gonna take up arms on behalf of this administration? Absolutely. And so there are things that I have to do that, you know, that I won't talk about publicly because I think it's probably better just to keep what steps I take for my privacy and security to myself. But. And the irony about that, too, is I can't really talk about it publicly. I mean, you and I have spoken about it privately, but I can't really talk about it publicly because the more you talk about it, the more you kind of let people let the bad actors know that it impacts you. And so there's this weird disincentivization where, yes, it happens. And I kind of like, even if something especially bad happened, which luckily hasn't, but if it did, that would. That. That would show. Like if. If somebody showed up at my house with a weapon or something like that, like what happened in Minnesota, if I spoke about this, that would tell other people, like, hey, this is something that get. This is what works, right? And so you don't want to see copycat attacks or anything like that. And so it's this weird thing where, yes, it might happen and you feel a need to talk about it because it's. It's reflective of all of the danger of the moment that we're living in. And it's. And it should be. I mean, it's. It's so depraved and disgusting, but that's exactly the thing that you have to kind of keep to yourself or keep to your. Your. Your circle of people. And so, look, does. Does it. Does it worry me and does it worry my family? Of course it does. But I think at this point, you know, whether it's a blessing or a curse that. That we're in this job, we are in this job. And so you just got to kind of. You know, the way I think about it is just. I just got to keep. Keep going because there's not that many of us who have especially large platforms on social media. And so if you have it, then. Then use it to. To its fullest extent.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I've had situations where after a particularly scary incident, like when Don Jr. Targeted me on Twitter, for example.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Some people will say, dude, you should just quit.

[David Pakman]

And the.

[Charlie Kirk]

The thing that's tough is I explained to them, even if I were open to doing that and even if I did it today, do you think the problem goes away if I quit Today when there's 40,000 videos online of me talking about all this stuff? And so I think, to your point, we're in it right now, and I think it's a critical time to be in it and just to try to be as effective as possible.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah, and that's it. I mean, like, my whole goal, and we've spoken about this as well, is to build up independent, progressive media as much as we can. Because I don't want, you know, there to only be a few large accounts on YouTube. I don't want there to only. I mean, I don't want there to only be a few large accounts on TikTok. We need to flood the zone. And this way also, it does. It does help us, because then all of the attention isn't trained on just a few people. Like, I want there to be thousands and thousands of people. I want it to be decentralized. I want it to be very democratized. This way, there's not just a few large creators who get the attention and get the bad attention as well, that it really does feel like everybody.

[Charlie Kirk]

When you interviewed me about my book, I guess it's been over three months ago at this point. One of the things you asked me was sort of like, my view as to whether I think Democrats kind of like, get what happened in 24. Is there a plan? Is there some path to securing power again in order to pass bills? And I was sort of, like, shaky on it. So three months have gone by. You and I in the last couple months have talked to a lot of governors, senators, members of the House of Representatives. I want to get your view on where you think the strategy is. Right now I've been unvarnished with my audience, which is, you know, I sit down with whoever, Cory Booker, and then it was Amy Klobuchar, Andy Beshear. Individually. We're dealing with smart people who I believe have the Best intentions and who really do want to pass bills that are going to be better for people.

[David Pakman]

Cool.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is there a unified plan that actually explains how to defeat those in power right now?

[David Pakman]

President, House, Senate?

[Charlie Kirk]

I can't say that I feel that there is a unified plan that I could coherently go to. People who are not paying attention go, no, guys, listen, this is the time to get involved. Here's the unified plan. I'm, I'm not seeing it right now. I'm quite, I'm. I wonder whether you see it.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

No, I, I don't think I see a plan. I don't think I see an affirmative plan for the Democrats to go out in 26 and 28 and say, here's why you should vote for us other than we are. You know, look, there is, there's clearly something in the anti Trump, anti Republican thing. After all, Republicans have made, have made an entire career in attacking Democrats, making Democrats into boogeymen. But I think right now it very much feels like, and this isn't a knock on them specifically right now, because I think while Republicans are trying to pass a budget bill that's gonna strip healthcare away from, you know, 14 million Americans and food assistance away to the tune of $300 billion and explode the deficit by $3 trillion, I think that there is enough right here in this specific moment to be able to say, we have to stop this. Look what they're trying to do. Look how they're trying to strip your health care away, healthcare away. Look how they're trying to take away your critical lifelines. But I, I also don't see an affirmative plan moving forward. I don't have some. Like, like Trump came out and he, I mean, he's, he's good at selling his bullshit proposals. He's not going to, you know, like, he, he claimed that he was going to lower, lower housing costs and food costs and rent costs and egg costs. Hasn't done any of that. But, but that doesn't matter. Hasn't done any of that. But, but, but that doesn't matter because, because he's already, he's already in power, but at least he has some affirmative plan, notwithstanding the fact that it was a complete bill of goods. I don't think the Democrats have that right now. We still have time until the midterms roll around. But it does feel like we are still an anti Trump, anti Republican Party. And again, that might be enough to get us through an election where there will be. I, I firmly believe that there's gonna be a backlash to What Republicans are doing right now, look, the last time they went after healthcare was in 2017. Tried to strip away the ACA, and Democrats won the House by the biggest margin in modern American history. So can we win on an anti Trump, anti Republican platform? Of course we can. But we can't just be the party that is the lesser of two evils. We can't just be the party that isn't gonna be as depraved as Republicans. I think that we need an affirmative message. You know, Bernie and AOC are garnering a ton of attention across the country because they're very clear about what they want. And it doesn't have to be a progressive thing. It can be, you know, whatever. Whatever from wherever you lie on the ideological spectrum, because I know that there are folks in this country who still align with Democrats who are more moderate. And I know that, of course, there are folks who are super progressive and want $30 minimum wage, whatever it may be. But. But you need to present an affirmative vision that isn't just anti Trump, anti Republican. If we want any hope of making sure that we don't only win elections when the other guys are absolutely abhorrent. Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

One of the things that worries me, and I'm curious to see your thoughts, is I worry that there is a wing of the movement, our movement, for whom no one is left enough. And I'll give you two examples. Which are your examples? Bernie and aoc, where I am now anecdotally seeing in the comments and hearing from people, AOC sold out, by which they mean she's become a little pragmatic in understanding of how you gain power. AOC sold out. Bernie has gone to the dark side when he said, you know, something relatively anodyne about Israel or something like that.

[David Pakman]

If Burn.

[Charlie Kirk]

I worry that if Bernie and AOC are now too far to the middle and they've sold out or whatever, I don't know that anyone would suffice. And that scares me a little bit.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah, I think. I think there has to be an understanding of what politics is and this idea that. That we're not in this to find our spiritual leader. We're not in this to find our significant other. We are not looking for perfect. Our politicians are vehicles to get us the closest to where we want to be. And we inherently have to be able to reach out to people that are not just. That are not that don't just satisfy the purity test that we've decided to impose because it has to be inclusive, not exclusive. We lost the popular vote we lost the electoral vote. And so our only job here is to be able to find people who are not already on board and bring them into the process.

[David Pakman]

That's it.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Like, that's what politics is. If you want perfect, go, you know, find a. Find a partner, and that's where you'll find your perfection. Find a spiritual leader, and that's where you'll find your perspective. But that's not what politics is right now. Politics is, is finding people who are. Who are vehicles to get us into power so that we could do the most with what little time we have. And we can't be. Be imposing purity tests. We can't be excluding people from the party who don't align political perfectly with every single worldview that we have. We have to be willing to compromise. Because, look, I would rather have somebody in office that I agree with 60 to 75% of the time, because the alternative to that is going to be somebody that I agree with 5 to 10% of the time. And so it just has to be a matter of common sense here. And I do hope that there's some sense because I know that the infighting is going to occur once we get into a position where the 2028 primaries start to roll around and, you know, we see the familiar infighting. And I just hope that people have a sense of what it is that we're doing here and what politics at its core is, because it's not about finding perfection, and we can't let perfect be the enemy of good. It is about finding somebody who's going to beat the person on the Republican side so that we can get into power, so that we can use what limited time we have in power to combat climate change and expand access to health care and stop the proliferation of guns in our schools and make sure that women have access to reproductive care and whatever it may be. But that's really the name of the game here. And I try to use, you know, what platforms I have at any moment that I have them to kind of. To kind of drive that message home, knowing full well that it may be in vain. But, you know, we have to, even if there's a few people every time I say it, that understand, okay, like, I get that this politician may not be perfect, but that's not what we're in pursuit of here. This is about getting power and exercising that power to help as many people as possible. And the only way that we actually get into power is, is if we're willing to, you know, find people who have the best chance of, of beating the Republicans so that, that we can actually exercise it.

[Charlie Kirk]

One other thing I see in a lot of the comments from our audiences, the people that didn't vote and appealing to people that did not even feel as though the stakes were necessarily high enough or that their vote would play a role in making a difference and stayed home. And I think one of the interesting things there is it one of the advantages with the MAGA approach is finding a scapegoat to blame is really effective. Fear based campaigning is really effective at getting people off the sidelines. And if you think back to 2015, 2016, when Trump came down the golden escalator, as he likes to say, and there were people who weren't really voting at that point, but they kind of knew who Trump was. And you see Trump go, hey, I know why you've been struggling. You're not making as much money as you want to make, or you're finding it difficult to afford housing or all these different things. The problem is, I'm simplifying, but it's immigrants from Mexico and China treating us unfairly on trade. And I'm going to deal with both of those things. It really sucks when you're trying to build a movement around reality, nuance and truth. But that stuff is really effective getting people to go, I never knew that if I could just vote, I could get a guy like Trump to fix this stuff.

[David Pakman]

And we don't really know how to deal with that yet.

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't think.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah, I think we have to be better at. I've seen a few instances where people will come forward and say the reason that you can't afford to pay for groceries, the reason that you can't afford to pay for rent, the reason that everything feels so out of, out of reach for you is not because of immigrants. Right. And I think it's, it's as simple as reminding people that we need an antidote to the Republican strategy, the, the, the, the, the demagoguery that we see from Trump, we need an antidote to that. And all too often Democrats are not willing to just come out and refute the argument that they bring forward, which is like you, you are, you are not, you're not doing well because there's an immigrant somewhere. You're not doing well because there's a brown or a black person somewhere, you know, collecting, collecting unemployment or that that's on, on Medicaid. As if these people, as if these people who are like on food that, that you're not doing well because they are because they're benefiting from their crumb in, in. In the pie because they're benefiting from that crumb means that somehow you're worse off. There is a scarcity mentality that Republicans bring forward. And I think that if we put forward the antidote to that, which is you are not bad off because somebody is making $7 an hour somewhere. You're not bad off because somebody else is able to receive food stamps or benefits from Medicaid. It's because our entire tax system is put in place to help one very small, specific subset of the population. And those folks are very often multimillionaires or billionaires. And so I think if we're better off at, if we get better at kind of understanding the antidote to the demagoguery being put forward by Republicans, hopefully we can stop that in our tracks. But I think a lot of what Trump did kind of caught everybody by surprise, left everybody flat footed. And we haven't really figured out a way to wield boogeymen with the same potency or effectiveness as Republicans have. And they've been really good at it. And I think that hopefully this moment right now where we are just seeing kind of all of that Republican depravity put into practice, where, you know, they're going after people, I mean, it's easy for them to say like, oh, the reason that you're not getting what you need is because all of these people are taking from you. And then you see these people getting rounded up by ice, by masked men and they're just like working in a car wash somewhere or working or like picking our food or working on a construction site that will build our houses. And I think it's puts on, I think it puts like a, literally and figuratively puts, puts a face to a name and makes it more difficult for people across this country to think that like these are the big scary boogeymen that are making your life miserable. The people that are working in the fields, the people that are like standing outside of Home Depot. And I think that we have to take advantage of that tide turning and show that, hey, maybe these aren't the big scary boogeymen that Republicans have made them out to be. Maybe the big scary boogeyman are the bill billionaires that actually benefit from the policies that all of that, all of that demagoguery is actually distracting us from.

[Charlie Kirk]

Brian, last thing I want to ask you about, kind of for my own edification, in the last few minutes we have, I try to do all the things I can think of in order to be as effective as possible. So I do my videos and I do my podcast. If there's a new platform where maybe we can reach people, I get on the platform. Some people wrote to me and said, you know, I have a lot of friends and family who, they just don't listen to stuff they read. So I wrote a book and then we launched the substack where we have written content. What about going to D.C. and interviewing people there and think, well, we did that last week. I'm trying to do everything within my reasonable reach as an independent producer. Are there other sorts of engagements and things that we as independent producers can and potentially should be doing in order to increase our effectiveness, to get more of those non voters voting, et cetera?

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

I think at this point now, and by the way, I should let everybody know that's in this substack live, that one of the inspiring forces to get me involved in independent media and in YouTube was literally watching David. I mean, David has been part of my YouTube diet from day one. I watched him well before I had my own channel. And I still believe, and I call you every time after you do one of your, your interviews, especially with, with these right wingers, that there is literally nobody better in independent media, legacy media, that, that with these interviews than, than you. So you are, you know, I think having. I don't want to understate the impact that you've had because, you know, had I not watched you, I very likely would not be doing what I'm doing right now. So, so I know that, that it often feels like we have to do so much more because there is a sense, and I get, I get it as well, of like, I feel like this is not sufficient. But, but I think at this point, I mean, you know, you're on all the platforms, you know, you're, you're on YouTube, you're on all the vertical platforms. We're doing substack live right now. I think now this, this moment is about kind of paving the way. And I guess this lends itself to the point that I was just making. Paving the way for a lot of other creators to get into this, into this ecosystem. You and I have spoken about that at length, but I think, I think we just need as many voices as possible because really the problem is not that we, you know, that, that, that you or I don't have a big enough platform to be able to reach people. It's that. It's just that the full breadth of the Left wing media ecosystem cannot compare to what they have on, on the right. And that if you're scrolling eventually you're going to run out of left of center creators and you're going to start getting fed right wing content just because pure number of people that are on there, all of the monetary incentivizations on the right to be able to do this kind of stuff and the incubator programs that they have on the right as well. And so you know, I think like, I don't want to understate like the, the, the impact that you continue to have just by doing what you're already doing. Because if you weren't there, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing. And I know that a lot of, and I know that and I hope that a lot of people who are watching who have, you know, interest in doing content creation on the left or even, you know, even if it's just like a part time thing picking up your phone and saying how, how stuff can impact you do it. I mean, you know, watching people like David is why I'm doing it. I hope that folks who are watching this right now, if you have any interest in getting out there and making your voice part of, part of this, this broad swath of people that we have on, on the left that if you have any interest in doing it, that you do because I think it can, you know, make a real difference. But I think that's, that's where, that's where our interest lies right now is broadening the entire ecosystem because you know, it's just, it's, it's a numbers game at this point. So we need as many numbers as possible.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's a good note to end on and I'll, I'll end with the advice that I always give whenever I have a conversation with people who want to get started and they go, oh, what.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Lights do I get?

[Charlie Kirk]

And which camera do I need someone doing advert videos starting today, just start doing the content. All of the other stuff will follow. Just, just start doing the content. That's the best possible advice I think.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

That we can really give.

[Charlie Kirk]

And what else can you do?

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Yeah, 100%. I mean I, I am, I am a perfectionist. I'm, I'm the most anal person that you'll find. I would normally when I was first making my content I was like, I can't do anything until I have the perfect script and the perfect background, the perfect camera, the perfect sound gear, the perfect lighting. And at the end of the day people are forgiving on all of that stuff. Just say what you have to say. Get out there. All of that stuff will come time and you'll get to the point where you know, you have a a nice background, nice camera, nice lights. But that stuff does not matter. And in fact some of the most viral videos that I have, especially on vertical platforms, are me just standing in, you know, just standing in some nondescript place because I just had something I wanted to say and just, you know, and just said it.

[Charlie Kirk]

You've been listening to A Conversation with Brian Tyler Cohen if you're a subscriber to my substack, make sure to subscribe. Subscribe to Brian's I would be flattered if Brian's followers subscribed to my substack as well. Brian, so good to talk to you. I know you're a busy guy, so I'll let you go, but we'll keep the conversation going.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Awesome. David. Thank you so much for the time. And thank you everybody for for tuning in and listening.

[David Pakman]

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[Tricia McLaughlin]

War and I hate to see people killed. Like as an example, Ukraine and Russia, they're not Americans. They're being killed. They're not interested in Israeli that are being killed. These are all Russians and all Ukrainians and, and but it's 5,000, maybe 7,000 last week, 7,500 last week. Mostly soldiers. But people in towns and cities that are getting hit but mostly death is mostly soldiers now. So they don't come from here. But it's 7,000 last week souls. And if I can stop that, you know, they have parents and they have sisters and brothers and getting married and who knows? They're just people but their souls. And if I can stop a war now because I have an ability to I'm disappointed frankly that President Putin hasn't stopped. I'm not happy about it either.

[David Pakman]

I really wish and thought that Vladimir Putin would just stop being so mean. Cut it out, Vlad. We don't want it anymore. Trump rambling and the look on Pete Hegseth face says a lot when you watch this. Trump talking about Saudi Arabia and Qatar and what he told Bibi backstage. Listen to this and watch Pete.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

But we're up to over $15 trillion coming into our country. There's never been anything like it anywhere in the world.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

World.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

There's never been an investment like that anywhere in the world. We look, I told this story and I just told it to Bibi backstage. I was Talking to him. And I said, you know, the king of Saudi Arabia, smart guy. And also we went to Qatar and we went to uae.

[Brian Tyler Cohen]

Really?

[Tricia McLaughlin]

Three strong leaders, smart guys. They all told me the same thing. And then that was reiterated at NATO just recently, recently when we got back, when they agreed to spend a trillion dollars a year, by the way, which is about three times what they were spending. But they all said the same thing. We thought your country was dead. Horrible term, right? We thought the United States of America was dead. And now you're presiding over the hottest country anywhere in the world. We're the hottest country in the world. I think Bibi would admit it. Even hotter than Israel. Although Israel was pretty hot about week ago, I can tell you.

[David Pakman]

Israel's hot. A soaking wet, sweaty Trump talk, talking about hot countries as Pete Hegseth looks on in horror. In complete and total horror. Now, Donald Trump then does something pretty slick, and he rarely does slick stuff, but it's totally whacked and I'm going to call it out. Trump goes, we're going to send some weapons to Ukraine. We've got to do it. Ukraine's got to be able to defend themselves. Fine. But this is aid that was already approved by Congress and Trump stalled it. The only thing Trump's doing is now, after international pressure, hey, this stuff's already approved. Stop delaying it. Trump's going to allow it to be sent. He wants you to think he's doing something great. He's just stopping the obstruction.

[Caroline Levitt]

Mr. President, are you planning to send.

[David Pakman]

More weapons to Ukraine?

[Tricia McLaughlin]

We're going to send some more weapons. We have to. They have to be able to defend themselves. They're getting hit very hard now. They're getting hit very hard. We're going to have to send more weapons, your defensive weapons primarily, but they're getting hit very, very hard. So many people are dying in that mess.

[David Pakman]

Trump wants you to think what a good thing he's doing. The people are dying and he's going to get them the aid. Well, he slowed the aid down now. Now he's ending the stalling of it. Now on the tariff letters, Trump said something I couldn't even summarize because it's so unintelligible. Not exactly the art of the deal done. Because you're sending the letters to follow.

[Caroline Levitt]

Up on Ed asked earlier. You're counting these as deals by saying, here's the tariff rate.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

I'm saying, here it is. Congratulations. Welcome to the introduction United States. I hope you make a lot of money and you're going to Pay us money. They were ripping us, they were charging us tariffs at levels that nobody has ever seen before. We have some countries who are charging 200% tariffs and making it impossible to do business. And what the tariffs are doing is they're driving people in and companies in into the United States. That's why we're building all of the, all of the work that you see happening in this country right now. And, and it's at a record level.

[David Pakman]

All the fact really, the art of the deal. You can just sense this guy knows how to negotiate, huh? Trump asked directly what happened to 90 trade deals in 90 days. His answer leaves a little bit to be desired. What happened to 90 trade deals in 90 days?

[Tricia McLaughlin]

As, oh, we've spoken to everybody. We know every, it's all done. I told you, I told you we'll make some deals. But for the most part, we're going to send a letter, we're going to say, welcome to the United States if you'd like to participate in the greatest, most successful country ever. I mean, we're doing better than ever. We have, I don't think. And you're going to see these numbers. So we've never had numbers like this with.

[David Pakman]

All right, I'm not going to insult you with the whole thing. He just doesn't really address it substantively. And then finally, finally moving the trip, the tariff deadline from July 9 to August 1, August 1 is definitely firm, right? You're not going to move that again. And Trump goes, well, well, is the.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

August 1st deadline firm now? Is that it? No, I would say firm, but not 100% firm. If they call up and they say we'd like to do something a different way, we're going to be open to that. But essentially, that's the way it is right now.

[David Pakman]

It's essentially firm, but not 100%. His brain is Jell O. But this is nothing compared to how Benjamin Netanyahu played him during the same dinner. Donald Trump got played like a fiddle and he didn't even realize it. During a joint appearance at the White House yesterday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu handed Trump a piece of paper. And he says with a straight face, I have nominated you for a Nobel Peace Prize. And Trump goes, wow, I didn't even know that. No skepticism, not a hint that Netanyahu might be buttering him up. So that then Trump lets Netanyahu do whatever the hell he does. Just a naive, wide eyed ego boost for Donald Trump. Listen to this.

[Tricia McLaughlin]

So I want to present to you, Mr. President, the letter I sent to the Nobel Prize Committee. It's nominating you for the Peace Prize, which is well deserved and you should get it. Thank you very much. This, I didn't know. Wow. Thank you very much. Coming from you in particular, this is very meaningful. Thank you very much, Bibi. Thank you. Thank you for everything you're doing. Thank you.

[David Pakman]

Bibi is playing Trump like a fiddle and he doesn't even realize it. I mean, a peace prize for preemptively bombing another country in circumstances that you precipitated by getting out of the Iran deal during your first term. Now, here's the thing, okay? This is obviously strategic flattery. Benjamin Netanyahu has an interesting interest in Trump being buttered up by him. Netanyahu wants Trump's political support as Netanyahu's government is facing international backlash over their handling primarily of the Gaza conflict, but others as well. And the way that Bibi manufactures consent from the United States is feeding Trump. The one thing Trump is. Because Trump has an unending appetite for flattery. A peace prize for bombing another country. And Benjamin Netanyahu, who I disagree with completely, I'm an opponent of Netanyahu. He's not stupid. And he knows. He knows what he is doing here. And Trump is eating it up. This is what makes Trump so easy to manipulate. And this is why we worry about when he gets on the phone with Putin and he goes, putin said it very strongly. I believe him. They didn't hack. They're the victims here. Trump is so easy to manipulate. It's never about policy. It's never about strategy. It's about who praises him the loudest. Do I think that Netanyahu genuinely believes Trump deserves a Nobel Peace Prize? No. But is Netanyahu willing to pretend he does in order to secure favorable treatment from Donald Trump? Of course, this is not about a real nomination. It's about keeping Trump wrapped around his finger. And Trump sits there beaming like a kid getting a sticker. The rest of the world sees what's happening with, which is that this is nothing but a pathetic and performative stunt designed to flatter a guy who is so self obsessed he doesn't even notice that he's being used. Unbelievable, pathetic stuff. We've got a great bonus show for you today. Ted Cruz on vacation again as Texas is struggling and having problems and seeing death from floods. We'll talk about an IRS declaration that churches can endorse candidates from the pulpit and not not lose nonprofit status. And alligator Alcatraz detainees are already alleging completely inhumane conditions. What a shock. Who could have expected that? Get the bonus show by signing up at. Join pacman.com get on my substack newsletter at substack.david pakman.com I'll be live with Jessica Craven tonight at quarter to 7 Eastern, quarter to 4 Pacific. Hope to see you there.

[Caroline Levitt]

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[Ted Cruz]

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