8/6/25: They’ll try to steal 2026, but we aren’t looking away

Summary

The David Pakman Show - Episode Summary (August 6, 2025): "They’ll Try to Steal 2026, But We Aren’t Looking Away"

Hosted by David Pakman

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Introduction

In this pivotal episode of The David Pakman Show, host David Pakman delves deep into the alarming strategies employed by the MAGA movement to undermine democratic processes ahead of the 2026 midterm elections. Pakman emphasizes the critical importance of voter participation and exposes the multifaceted tactics aimed at suppressing votes and eroding democratic integrity.

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Election Integrity and Trump’s Voter Suppression Tactics

Pakman opens the discussion by addressing the imminent threat to the 2026 elections, attributing it to the ongoing efforts by MAGA supporters, led by Donald Trump, to manipulate electoral outcomes.

• Suppressing Voter Turnout: Pakman asserts, “They don’t want you to vote. That’s not new. But what Donald Trump is doing... crank it up to an 11.” (02:15) He details how Trump has escalated traditional voter suppression methods, making them more aggressive and widespread.

• Historical Context: He contextualizes the issue by referencing the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and its subsequent erosion by the Supreme Court in 2013, leading to intensified voter suppression tactics such as reducing polling places and introducing restrictive voter ID laws. Pakman notes, “They’re making it more difficult for people likely to vote, for Democrats to vote.” (09:45)

• 2020 Election Aftermath: Pakman recounts Trump’s relentless attempts to overturn the 2020 election results, including filing numerous lawsuits and pressuring state officials to alter vote counts. He states, “On January 6, 2021, a mob stormed the Capitol... because Trump couldn’t admit that he lost.” (22:30)

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The Transformation of the Republican Party

Pakman explores how Donald Trump didn't merely disrupt the Republican Party but transformed it into the MAGA movement, revealing its underlying ambitions for authoritarianism.

• Historical Shift: He traces the evolution of the Republican Party from the Southern Strategy to the New Right, highlighting figures like Newt Gingrich and Pat Buchanan who laid the groundwork for Trump’s rise. Pakman explains, “Trump pulled the mask off of the monster that they had been building.” (36:10)

• Authoritarian Ambitions: Pakman warns that Trump’s ultimate goal extends beyond electoral victories to establishing a dictatorship, stating, “Trump wants a system where the votes only count when he wins. Losing is not allowed. That’s not democracy.” (25:50)

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The Culture War as a Political Weapon

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to unpacking the deliberate cultivation of culture wars by the MAGA movement to distract and divide the populace.

• Manufactured Divisions: Pakman argues, “This is a contrived culture war that the MAGA right has built.” (40:00) He lists contentious issues like critical race theory, gender identity, and book bans as strategic distractions from pressing societal problems.

• Impact on Society: He emphasizes that while these cultural battles are real, they serve as tools to divert attention from issues like economic policy and climate change. Pakman states, “As long as we’re fighting over culture, we’re not united enough to really change the stuff that will make a difference day to day.” (48:30)

• Left’s Role: Pakman critiques segments of the left for inadvertently amplifying MAGA’s culture war tactics by engaging with fringe elements, advising a more strategic approach to avoid playing into MAGA’s hands.

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Interview with Carlos Eduardo Espina: Latino Political Dynamics

In a compelling segment, Pakman interviews Carlos Eduardo Espina, a prominent Spanish-language content creator, to discuss the shifting political landscape within the Latino community.

• Building Influence: Espina shares his journey of growing influence, stating, “My first video was in Spanish... It just started blowing up overnight.” (35:30) He highlights the importance of Spanish-language messaging in reaching and mobilizing Latino voters.

• Shift Towards Trump: Espina observes a troubling trend where increasing numbers of Latino voters are supporting Trump, driven by misinformation and targeted Spanish-language propaganda. He notes, “Latinos are very unique here... we’re still forming our political identity.” (46:21)

• Challenges in Messaging: He emphasizes the Democratic Party’s shortcomings in Spanish communication, asserting, “I genuinely believe that if Kamala Harris would have spoken Spanish, she would have won the election.” (51:15)

• Cultural Weaponization: Espina discusses how MAGA has effectively weaponized cultural issues within the Latino community, leading to divisions and decreased support for Democrats. He warns, “Republicans have gotten very effective at Spanish messaging... we need to be equally as effective.” (58:34)

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Characterization of Trump and MAGA Figures Through the Seven Deadly Sins

Returning from the interview, Pakman shifts focus to a moral analysis of Donald Trump, equating his actions and personality traits with the seven deadly sins to underscore the depth of his authoritarian tendencies.

• Pride: Pakman describes Trump’s unyielding ego and refusal to acknowledge losses, stating, “He’s only doubled down in his second term... He refuses to admit he lost anything.” (60:45)

• Greed: He highlights Trump's exploitation of the presidency for personal gain, including business ventures and leveraging power for financial enrichment. Pakman remarks, “He’s treating the presidency not as a responsibility, but as a second chance to settle scores.” (61:30)

• Wrath: Pakman emphasizes Trump’s unleashed anger and vindictive actions, such as pardoning January 6 rioters and vilifying opponents. He states, “It’s not politics, it’s vengeance and it’s wrath.” (62:10)

• Envy, Lust, Gluttony, and Sloth: Pakman continues by detailing how Trump's envy of others, lust for control, gluttony for power, and slothful delegation of responsibilities further embody corruptive excesses, reinforcing his portrayal of Trump as the embodiment of these sins. (63:00)

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Conclusion and Takeaways

Pakman wraps up the episode by stressing the urgency of resisting authoritarian drift and the importance of unified democratic engagement. He urges listeners to:

• Voter Participation: “Don’t let yourself be convinced that your vote doesn’t matter. If your vote didn’t matter, they wouldn’t be working this damn hard to make it harder for you to vote.” (50:00)

• Awareness and Action: Recognize the sophisticated strategies employed to undermine democracy and actively participate in safeguarding electoral integrity.

• Community Engagement: Focus on effective communication within marginalized communities, particularly the Latino population, to counteract misinformation and foster political unity.

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Key Quotes

• “They don’t want you to vote... they made it more difficult for people likely to vote, for Democrats to vote.” (02:15, 09:45)

• “Trump wants a system where the votes only count when he wins. Losing is not allowed. That’s not democracy.” (25:50)

• “This is a contrived culture war that the MAGA right has built.” (40:00)

• “I genuinely believe that if Kamala Harris would have spoken Spanish, she would have won the election.” (51:15)

• “He’s treating the presidency not as a responsibility, but as a second chance to settle scores.” (61:30)

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Final Thoughts

David Pakman’s incisive analysis in this episode underscores the critical juncture at which American democracy stands. By exposing the intricate tactics aimed at undermining electoral integrity and highlighting the cultural divisions strategically fostered by the MAGA movement, Pakman calls for heightened vigilance and proactive participation to preserve democratic values and ensure fair representation in the forthcoming elections.

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This summary is designed to provide a comprehensive overview of the episode's key discussions and insights for those who may not have listened to it.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Well, welcome to the show. If you are hearing this message, it is because I am ready to announce my retirement from making babies. Let me explain. If you're hearing this message, everybody relax. If you're hearing this message, it is because we have welcomed my second and as far as I'm concerned, final baby. And I will be retiring from baby making. So I will be in and out over the next period of time. But I'm here today and we have really important stuff to talk about. And by the way, if you have children or were once a child or might one day have children, there is really important, significant moment of momentous stuff going on. And we have to start sort of with like the top of the pyramid, which is, can we count on the will of the people being represented in who ultimately gets into office? And I hate to start on such a negative note on such a special day, but they, meaning maga, is going to try to steal the next election, too. It's not even hyperbolic speculation. They've tried to do it. They don't want you to vote. That's not new. But what Donald Trump is doing as we look into 2026 is take the old playbook of voter suppression and crank it up to an 11. He didn't just try to win the game, he tried to rewrite the rules when he lost the game in 2020. And it's important when we talk about things like this to acknowledge American elections have never been perfect. Right? I mean, for decades, politicians have used a number of tools to tilt the playing field. Gerrymandering is one that we've talked about extensively. Voter ID laws, disinformation. It's all sort of been done before. But what Trump did from 2020 on, and remember, he still hasn't even acknowledged he lost the popular vote to Hillary in 2016, an election that made him president. But certainly from 2020 on, Trump has turned it into something far more dangerous. Before Trump came along, Republicans were trying to figure out, how can we win elections by shrinking the electorate. After the civil rights movement won very important victories for black voters, especially in the south, the Voting Rights act of 1965 was passed. And the point was, let's stop racist tactics like poll taxes, literacy tests, intimidation. And one of the most important tools of the 65 Voting Rights act was pre clearance. What preclearance means is that states have to get clearance to change election laws if they are on a list of states that had a history of suppressing the vote. And it actually worked pretty damn well for a while. But the moment that parts of the Voting Rights act were gutted by the Supreme Court in 2013, you saw Republicans in Texas, North Carolina, Georgia move almost immediately to reduce the number of polling places, cut early voting, purge voter rolls, introduce voter id. All targeted. They, they said, oh, it's voter and election integrity, they would say. But it was all targeted to make it more likely that they were making it more difficult for people likely to vote, for Democrats to vote. That's who they were trying to make it more difficult to actually go and vote. Latino voters, black voters, students, the poor people who leaned towards the Democratic Party. In 2012, Mitt Romney's campaign strategists believed that strict voter ID laws could help them win Pennsylvania, not because of fraud, but because making it harder to vote could swing the outcome. They didn't need to cheat, per say, although you could argue it's cheating because you're dissuading the will of the voter to come to the top of the sort of surface as the, the victor. They just needed fewer of you to show up. Then came Trump. Trump didn't invent these tactics, but he made them the center of Republican politics. And he added something new, which is contempt for democracy itself. Do we really even think that giving people the full, unfettered, unrestricted right to vote is good for the country? You start with 2016. Trump lost the popular vote, still hasn't acknowledged it. D didn't accept it. He said, I know I won the Electoral College, but I believe millions of people voted illegally. There were buses going from what was in Massachusetts to New Hampshire. And he said it to delegitimize any outcome where he doesn't win. He even launched that voter fraud commission. It's sort of like this is ancient history in a sense. And it quietly shut down after it found nothing. That was the warm up. We then get to 2020. Trump loses again. This time he loses popular vote by over 7 million. And he also lost the Electoral College. Joe Biden became president, kicked Trump the hell out of the White House. Trump tried to overturn the entire election. Trump spent months before Election Day saying the mail in ballots are a scam. He was pushing his followers to vote in person, while Democrats voted earlier, voted by mail. That wasn't an accident. Trump wanted Democratic ballots to be easier to challenge or to toss out later. And then came the lawsuit. 60 something. Nearly all of them failed. Some of them were laughed out of court by judges that Trump himself had appointed to the bench. But Trump kept going. He called Secretary of State, the Secretary of State of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger, and begged him to fire. Fined 11,780 votes. He pressured the DOJ to declare this was a corrupt election. They didn't do it. He pushed fake slates of electors in multiple states. The idea being, let's just send people who will say, we cast our electoral votes for Trump. Even though Trump lost, he tried to get Mike Pence to block certification, which Pence had no legal power to do. And when none of it worked, he pointed to the Capitol and he said, walk down Pennsylvania Avenue with me. We're going to fight. And they did. And over a million and a half of you were with me. On that day, January 6, 2021, a mob stormed the Capitol. Lawmakers were hiding under desks. People died because Trump couldn't admit that he lost. And to this day, he's still lying. He still says he won. He says the rioters are hostages. He pardoned a whole bunch of them. He has made belief in the lie that he won in 2020 sort of like the entry fee to the Republican Party. If you don't repeat it. You're not my friend. You're not on my team. And so this goes way beyond sore feelings from Trump, and there are many, but it's about power. Trump wants a system where the votes only count when he wins. Losing is not allowed. That's not democracy. But Trump doesn't care because Trump wants a dictatorship. And so now we are on the precipice of 2026 and critically important midterm elections. Republican lawmakers around the country are carrying the torch of 2020 ideas from Trump. They are cutting polling places in black neighborhoods. They're passing laws to give Republican controlled legislatures more power over the results. They are purging voters from voter rolls. They're making it harder to vote by mail. They're giving Trump loyalists control over how are elections counted, how are they certified. They say it's about security. We know that it's not. It is about control. They want to choose. They don't want a system where the people choose. They want a system where they decide who even counts as a person, as we've seen from the threats for denaturalization and deportation without due process. So Trump has told tens of millions of people. Let me put it a different way. Trump has convinced tens of millions of people. He's told hundreds of millions, but he's convinced tens of millions of people, his supporters, that democracy can only be trusted if he wins. And that what you, if. If you believe that your vote doesn't matter. You might not show up to begin with. So there is a rigging here that maybe it's not worth me showing up, but that's part of the tactic. That's the play. If they can get us to give up, they would win without even cheating. So the takeaway here as we are now just months from the start of the midterm season officially, and building towards another scenario, where can we put any check here on this growing authoritarianism? Don't let yourself be convinced that your vote doesn't matter. If your vote didn't matter, they wouldn't be working this damn hard to make it harder for you to vote. Now, one final thing I want to say, and I know we're going to have a lot of time to dig into this many people, very, you know, people like me in a sense, who look at things extremely rationally, go wait a second, does my vote matter? Because when have any of these national elections come down to one vote that they never have? My vote isn't going to change anything. And to you, here's what I say. There are tens of thousand, hundreds of thousands, millions of people who have the same thought, who say to themselves, I don't know that my vote really matters because none of these elections have ever come down to one vote. That voting bloc decides elections. And what I mean by that is the following. If everybody who says to themselves, I don't know if it's worth voting, I don't know if my vote matters, because these elections never come down to one. If everybody who wonders that stays home, well, we give it up, then they win. If everybody who has the thought, I don't know if my vote matters because it's never come down to one vote. If that group of people goes, but I'm going to vote anyway. As a voting bloc, we actually decide elections. So we're going to have significant, extensive coverage of what's going on here. We'll be speaking more to Mark Elias. We're going to be doing all of this stuff. But for now, just remember the reason they're working this damn hard to make it harder to vote is because they know that if we all do vote, it's terrible for them. Make sure you're subscribed to my YouTube channel, YouTube.com/the David Pakman Show. Make sure you're on my sub [e-mail] pakman.com Donald Trump has already packed his second term cabinet with loyalists. He's threatened deportation as political punishment. He's expanded executive authority in ways we have not seen in modern history. These are real changes that are happening right now. And what's even more alarming is that a lot of the media is either glossing over the worst of it or they're reframing it so it all sounds a little more palatable. And that is why I use Ground News. This is a news comparison tool. Doesn't just feed you headlines, it shows you here's how different outlets, left, right, center, are covering the same story. And this is one of the few tools I know of that can really help you detect the political spin, the bias catch stories that your usual sources might downplay or not cover at all on everything from immigration policy to economic shifts. If you want to get a bigger picture, a broader picture of what's being reported, Ground News is an invaluable source to keep you informed. And Ground News is offering my audience 40% off their top tier vantage plan. You'll only pay five bucks a month. Go to Ground News, slash Pacman or enter the code Pacman in the app to get started. The link is in the description do you ever feel like it's tough to stay focused? I've sometimes struggled with it and Brain FM's Focus Music has really helped me find my groove. I used to think background music from Spotify or YouTube would help me focus but I ended up distracted and then I'd start looking for better tracks that would actually help. Then I found Brain fm. It's not just another music app, it's really music designed for when you are trying to do deep work. It's science back. The modes can be for deep work or more creativity, focus or motivation. They have a turbo mode designed to support adhd brains. Brain FM's music works within minutes and it delivers results. A peer reviewed study showed that Brain FM's music boosts attention, especially for people with adhd tendencies. Brain FM's Focus Music is the only music made to support ADHD Brains and Brain FM is the only music app funded by the National Science foundation because because of their unique audio technology that changes the patterns in your brain. With Brain FM I am locked in. The distractions go away. The productivity just happens and my audience can try it for free for 30 days. When you go to Brain FM Pacman the link is in the description. The David Pakman show is an audience supported program. We couldn't do this without you. We are trying to build more than just a little podcast. We are really trying to build an ecosystem with hundreds, thousands. Could it be tens of thousands of shows? All that are doing Pro democracy, pro activism content. The best way to support our work is by signing up at join pacman.com by requesting a free membership at David pakman.com/free membership or by becoming a free or paid subscriber to my [e-mail] pakman.com Remember that if you sign up on my website, that's join pacman.com you can use the coupon code. It will end soon to save about 50% off of the cost of your membership. All right, let's dig into what has happened to the Republican Party. How did the Republican Party get destroyed by Trump and made into maga? There are people who believe that Donald Trump broke the Republican Party. I think that that's not quite right. I don't think Trump broke the party so much as Trump revealed what the party is. Trump pulled the mask off of the monster that they had been building. This isn't ancient history, right? This is really like the rot the that got us to where we are. Arguably it began in the south in the old Confederacy, which used to be Democrat territory for a long time. And then came civil rights. And the Democrats, for all their faults, finally did something right, which was let's pull the United states into the 20th century. And a big chunk of the white south felt betrayed. They saw their world, their power crumbling. And the Republicans, pretty damn shrewd, you have to say, saw their opening. They didn't necessarily shout it from the rooftops, but the so called Southern Strategy was kind of like a wink and a nod come to us, we understand, we get it. And it was a dirty but brilliant play and it really shifted the party's soul and it brought it from Lincoln's vision to something very different. That then came the new right in the 70s and in the 80s. This is not like the polite Republican Party. This was a different breed. And ultimately this led into the early 90s. And guys like Newt Gingrich, who were not, it's not like they went from checkers to chess. They went from checkers to a street brawl. And Newt was kind of a demolition man more than he was a lawmaker. And he figured out the game, turn everything into a war. It's not just policy disagreements and it's evil versus good. Compromise, that's weakness, that's surrender. We don't compromise. And Gingrich perfected the art of the political gut punch, this grinding attack. And he built a base that lives for confrontation. Every election is Armageddon. If they don't sound like us, we hate them. And it was kind of a dress rehearsal for what ultimately surfaced in the Republican Party under Donald Trump. It was more than just the brawling attitude. It was also like a poison sweeping or. Or entering the veins of the ideology. And for decades, Republicanism meant suits, buttoned up boardrooms, and this sort of thing. You know, think like Eisenhower or even Reagan to a degree. But there was this monster they were building underneath. And then comes Pat Buchanan. Now, the name Pat Buchanan might kind of make you shrug or. Who am I talking about? This guy was really a prophet of chaos. He ran for president in the 90s. People laughed, but he was screaming about globalism. Free trade is bleeding, American jobs dry, immigrants are doing horrible things, American culture is being ripped apart. And he really launched what we might call a culture war, which we'll talk about more in another segment. It was sort of the idea of America first with different packaging. But what Buchanan really tapped into is this deep, dark fury that was looking to weaponize working class white folks who saw factories are closing, towns are dying, there's, we are like strangers in our own country. They were led to feel we're disrespected, we're forgotten, the elites are spitting on us. And that was sort of the roadmap. And this should remind you of elements of what Donald Trump did. And then as this was developing, they built the media machine. Nightly news now, newspapers now. They built a universe where Fox news started in 1996, the growth of Rush Limbaugh and so many other people. The Internet ultimately became this kind of like, Wild west sort of situation. And what they did was sculpt reality, grievances, suspicions, conspiracy theories, and just pump them out 24, 7. And so journalists became the enemies, scientists became the liars, professors became elitist, progressive clowns. And if you were a Republican, this was your oxygen IV drip, right? Set outrage, make sure nothing else can get in. And they built this echo chamber so thickly and so successfully that when Trump finally came along and said, I'm going to war with fake news, China screwed you and I will fix it. Immigrants are screwing us, and I will fix it, it was sort of just revealing what they had been building for a very long time. Go back before Trump again. Remember when the Tea party exploded in 2010? Ostensibly, it was about government spending and taxes, but if you pulled back the curtain a little bit, and Joe Walsh, who has left the Republican Party but was a Tea Congress, a Tea Congress, a Tea Party congressman, back in that era, they were anti immigrant, they were anti Obama, they distrusted anything that smelled like government. And they showed that if you're really loud, you can actually hijack the Republican Party, kick the moderates out and drag the entire thing to the extreme right. That got us to where Trump seized on the party societal cracks, economic concerns that are legitimate but were weaponized against the wrong scapegoat, while to a degree, many jobs were disappearing and global globalization was having an effect. But the cultural anxiety was a big deal. The country is changing. Whites are not in as much of a majority anymore. There's brown people from different countries, there's gay people, trans people. Right. All of women are demanding more. And there is a significant chunk of the country disproportionately older, white, often rural voters. They were convinced by Trump that's the existential threat. Their America is being stolen piece by piece. I'm not being respected, nobody's listening to me. And beneath some of that fear, there was some racism against Obama, the timing of which Trump was able to take advantage of as well. So in comes Trump and he takes advantage of it. Trump doesn't create the anger. Trump didn't create the economic pain, not immediately. He didn't create the distrust of institutions, but he was able to coalesce it. He was able to say to people, even though he's the most privileged guy, right. He spent his life trying to be kept isolated from the people he said he was going to champion. But the prejudices came rolling out and he allowed people to be disinhibited and just say what they've been thinking for a while. That's where he was able to then come in, even though his solutions were pure garbage. Right. Tariff wars, those aren't going to solve the problem. Building a wall with Mexico, that's not going to solve the problem. But he named the pain. He said, I hear you and I see it and I'm going to fix it. He, in a cult like way, harnessed decades of groundwork laid by Gingrich and Reagan and Buchanan, and he was able to not change the Republican party overnight. But he finished the transformation. They had put all the pieces together for the monster, but he put in the battery and turned the damn thing on. Anti globalism, hate for immigrants, cultural grievance, gut level loathing of elites, a war on truth and really unapologetically trying to grab power. However, by trying to steal an election he didn't win. Sure. By ignoring law and order, ignoring court orders, sure, why not? So it's important, I think, if we are going to get out of the situation we're in, where Democrats just lost everything in November. We do have to understand how we got here. And so it's not just Trump. There's 50, 60 years of deep, ugly currents that eventually emptied out into this ocean, to use the sort of river metaphor. The currents are still running and shaping things, and they might continue to do so after Trump leaves the stage, whenever that may be. And another equally important aspect of this to understand is why do they benefit from the cultural divisions that they sow? And we've got to take a look at that. Now let's talk about the culture war. Critical race theory, gender identity, trans sports, wokeness in schools, book bans, parental rights, gender affirming care. I'm trying to think what else I'm forgetting. Cancel culture pronouns, the deep state, that sort of thing. The air is just filled with this crap. And brick by brick, argument by argument. This is not an organic social disagreement. This is a contrived culture war that the MAGA right has built. You might say to yourself, how did people suddenly wake up under Trump and start to believe that book bans, pronouns, transports, woke? All the stuff I just mentioned is like the biggest problem in the world. How did it happen? And the answer is, it didn't happen organically. This is a strategy. It's a. It's a weapon. It's a deliberate weapon. It's a cynical weapon, and I hate to admit it, it's a very effective weapon. They want us divided. MAGA doesn't just tolerate the culture war. They thrive on it. They stoke it, they amplify it, because they do not care about winning arguments. It's about winning power. Think about it. We're screaming at each other about bathrooms or what books are in the library, but what aren't we talking about when we're doing that? You know where I'm going. Economic policy, health care, climate change, the daily struggles that actually affect us. And we ignore the fact that there is a group of powerful corporate executives and wealthy people and so on that are gleefully laughing all the way to the bank as we are distracted by the culture war. Now, this doesn't mean that if we do nothing about the culture war that there aren't real problems. Of course there are. If we allow them to fight the culture war with no opposition, they will do horrible social stuff. So it's not that we should just ignore it, but it becomes this shiny object or like a very loud noise. And it's designed to keep our eye off the ball. This is an old playbook. There's a long, ugly history in the United States of the weaponization of culture Wars. You go to the 1850s before the Civil War. It wasn't just about slavery, it was about states rights. Yes, but underneath that there was a sort of socio cultural battle of values. What is America? And politicians then, as they do now, use those divisions to solidify their bases and to inflame people and to prevent compromise. We look at the 1920s prohibition, evolution versus creationism in the Scopes Monkey trial. Look that one up if it sounds interesting. We look at urban versus rural, modern versus traditional. These were not just intellectual debates. They were really battles for the direction of the country, exploited by politicians to rally their tribes. We got to the Cold War. American values were up against the godlessness of communism. Right. That was the way it was framed. We should be suspicious. We should be divided. And then we just talked about the Southern Strategy after civil rights. Not only about race, it was profoundly about race, but not only about race. But let's package racial resentment into cultural grievances. What about traditional values? What about law and order, which often means just controlling parts of the population? What about these federal mandates that are going to come in and challenge the way we want to do things in our small town? And MAGA is playing the game right now. You look at critical race theory, most people had no idea what it was. It was like a niche academic concept, but it got everywhere. It's the boogeyman. It's dividing our kids. It's making white kids feel guilty about being white. You then put that in the hands of political actors and they make it a label. Anything, any discussion that goes in a direction they don't like. You want to bring up, bring up any systemic issue we want to deal with, they go, that is critical race theory. And it became a tool to shut down conversations. It became a tool to ban books or rewrite school curricula, really just for control. We look at gender identity, the trans community, a small, tiny percentage of the population just trying to live their lives. They have been turned into the latest cultural battlefield. What about the bathrooms? What about sports? What about pronouns? What about in the military? And they create this manufactured panic that hits a lot of people viscerally, but it feeds primarily on misunderstanding. Why? Because it's an easy target. Makes it really easy for politicians to signal to their base, I'm fighting for your values. You don't want these men and women's sports, do you? I'm with your kids. And you can draw sharp lines with it and you polarize and it really works. So here's the way the playbook works, you identify a perceived threat to traditional values. If it's new, that's great. You exaggerate the threat to a point where it doesn't make any sense, but it starts to really make people afraid. You demonize the other by saying, look at this other group that doesn't agree with us about the threat. And then you use that to galvanize the base and distract from everything else. Corporate taxes got slashed. Well, what about a litter box in a bathroom? Right? We've got the ability to pay for everybody to have health care, but we don't. What about Drag Queen Story Hour or whatever? So honest disagreements would be like, you think the top tax rate should be 50%. She thinks the top tax rate should be 40%. He wants a 25% flat tax. That's like a real, you know, honest discussion, at least potentially. These are coordinated campaigns to sow division so that we keep yelling at each other. And as long as we're fighting over culture, we're not united enough to really change the stuff that will make a difference day to day. And the cynical genius of it, and it pains me to say this, the left, not the. There are little pieces of the left that take the bait. They will jump in and they will defend the most extreme interpretations, the most obscure academic concepts, the most niche cultural expressions. And they will try to explain it, or to use nuance or educate. And sometimes these are ideas mainstream America isn't ready for or doesn't care about or doesn't want to hear about. And when they do it, it's a gift to maga. See, look, the left really believes this because we got someone to defend some crazy notion that nobody really supports. They want to teach your kids this. No, they don't is the right answer. But then you have some tiny little fringe that goes, we should be teaching kids that. Why shouldn't we? Boom, it's done. It'll alienate the bulk of of the movement and the party. So we need to identify what they're doing and understand why they're doing it. But the left needs to be smart. The left has to understand not every fight has to be our fight. We don't have to take every absurd MAGA accusation and give a full throated defense of it. Sometimes the smartest move is let it hang, pivot back to the real issues. Because as long as that fringe takes the debate and they get dragged into defending every single perceived slight against wokeness, you're playing maga's game and you're playing with maga's rules and we're going to lose the attention of the very people that we want to partner with to make everybody's lives better. So this is why they want us culturally divided. We're going to have more on this on our YouTube channel, which I hope you're subscribed to at YouTube.com/the David Pakman Show Your personal data is everywhere and you might not even know people. Search sites and data brokers are quietly publishing your name, address, phone number, even things like property records, political views. It is not just creepy, it's dangerous because scammers and fraudsters and shady marketers can use this information every day. Our sponsor Incogni solves the problem for you. Incogni contacts the data broker sites on your behalf and forces them to delete your data. The data brokers are legally obligated to comply and Incogni handles the entire process for you. Incogni is now taking this even further with their custom removals feature included in the unlimited plan. They've got their 250 plus sites where removal is automated, but if you find your information anywhere else you can custom submit that and they will have it removed manually. This is serious protection. Using Incogni can cut way down on the spam calls and the messages that you get. Fewer risks, more control over your identity. Try it risk free for 30 days and get 60% off an annual plan when you go to incogni.com pacman the link is in the description. Many of us know all too well about the sticking, rubbing and chafing that you can get with traditional underwear. Our sponsor, Sheath Underwear have created unique boxer briefs with multiple ergonomic compartments in the front which prevents skin on skin and that means everything stays separate, comfortable, dry and cool. You will have a boost of confidence when you're out and about. I've known so many people who were skeptical about those compartments. Friends who say I heard that ad for sheath. What about those compartments? And then they try it and then they're amazed at the comfort and breathability when they finally try it. You will thank yourself. Plus Sheath has brand new materials like bamboo and mesh for even more cooling comfort. They will be the most comfortable pair of boxer briefs you ever put on. No more sweatiness and chafing and readjusting, especially at the gym. It's a lifesaver. Give sheath underwear a shot. I've had a great experience. I think you will to head over to sheath underwear.com/pacman and get 20% off with code PACMAN. The link is in the description. I had a phenomenal conversation with my friend and Spanish language content creator Carlos Eduardo Espina on Substack Live recently. The conversation is awesome. It's in English, by the way, and we are going to check it out. You can get all my substack lives live as they [e-mail] pakman.com welcome, everybody.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

David Pakman here. Very special Substack guest, sort of newer to Substack, Carlos Eduardo Espina. We. We had the pleasure of meeting a couple of Times in Washington, D.C. you know, for people in my audience who aren't familiar with you already, I want to tell a little story. Not to embarrass you, but just I think so, so people understand kind of what you're up to. Carlos is like, he, he is an all star to people in a number of different worlds. And a lot of his content is in Spanish. He cannot walk. I've only seen this in D.C. okay.

[David Pakman]

Maybe it happens in other cities.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

He cannot walk down the street in Washington, D.C. without everybody just wants to say hello. Mostly Spanish speakers, I think.

[David Pakman]

Right.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

But you are doing some English language content too. How did you build this, this platform?

Yeah, it's really interesting. So now, now it's all over the country. The other day I went to the Gold cup final, Mexico versus usa and it looked like, you know, Justin bieber back in 2010.

You know, I saw that on your. On your Instagram.

But no, it's a real privilege for me. And I started during the pandemic. So at that point, I had just graduated college. I went to Vassar College in New York, wanted to do nonprofit work. But because of the pandemic, it was very complicated. I was graduating in May of 2020, so I was at home with my parents, taking care of them, trying to figure out what to do with my life. And I got the idea to start doing citizenship classes on social media on Facebook, because I used to do that back in the day in high school and all through college. So I had a lot of experience, teach citizenship classes. And I was doing lives on Facebook and someone's like, oh, you know, you should do it on TikTok too. And I thought it was really silly at that point because to me, TikTok was like, you know, dancing and singing and just kind of ridiculous. But I was like, who's going to want to watch me on TikTok? But I made. My first video was in Spanish, as you mentioned. I said, hey, if you want to become a US Citizen, these are the steps. Let me Know if you want to know more. And it just started blowing up overnight. Got like 100,000 views, went from like 0 followers to like 3,000. And people were like, we want to know more. We want to know more. So I started making more content around citizenship. And then around that time was the election, 2020. So people started asking, hey, what do you think about Trump? What do you think about Biden? I was like, hey, well, you know, I have a degree in political science. Might as well put it to use. This is what I think. And it just kind of blew up from there. And then for the past five years now, I've been making content every single day, mostly like you said in Spanish for Latinos here in the United States about what's going on, current event news, my opinion, all that sort of stuff. And I have been trying to do a little bit more content in English stuff, like substack and opening up my English TikTok page, but I'm still getting the hang of all of that. But, yeah, no, it's just been a wild R for these past five years.

What was there, like, A lot of times people ask me, what was the.

[David Pakman]

Moment that I realized something, something?

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

And I always go, there was no moment. Because it's like day you get a few more followers, and it kind of feels like you're doing the same thing. But you had some big things where you spoke at the dnc. You, you know, you. You've had all of these really big individual things. How did you even get pulled into that where you thought, oh, someone is noticing what I'm doing, who is in a position of power?

Yeah. So, like, the first big moment for me was, keep in mind, I started during the pandemic, so I almost, like, for the hurtful, like, I was at like a million followers, and I had barely left my house. I mean, I was in College Station at that time. So, like, you know, people knew me, but from my activism and work from before social media, so, like, I'd never really been recognized. And then, you know, I remember when the vaccines came out and, you know, my parents got the vaccine, I got the vaccine, so we felt a little bit more comfortable going. I went to Dallas, you know, just to go hang out, and I went to this, like, flea market market and, you know, Latino flea market. And I'm just there and, like, people are looking at me, and I'm like, what are these people looking at me? Like, maybe because I'm not from Dallas or whatever. And then people started to come up to me. They're like, oh, you're the guy on TikTok. You're the guy on TikTok. And, like, keep in mind, at that point, I was at, like, 1.2 million followers. And that's when it clicked in my head. I'm like, oh, like, you know, that number that you see on a screen, Those are real people who, like, listen to you, care about you. Now, having 13 million followers, it's like, tenfold what it was at that point. But that was, like, really the moment I realized, like, there was something special as far as, like, getting recognized politically, you know, like, and at a bigger level, you know, the White House started doing, like, these briefings for content creators about, like, a lot of different topics. This was back in, like, 2021, but for the longest time, I was never invited to any of that, I think, just because I spoke Spanish and people just didn't know I existed until it was another creator who's Latina, but she also does, like, you know, work in English and in Spanish. Started messing mentioning me around, like, you know, these political content creator circles, eventually that got to the White House, and they're like, who the hell is this guy? And how do we not know he existed? And, like, how can we get him here? So I got invited, you know, in early 2024 to go to the White House, and I said I wanted to talk to, like, the immigration team, kind of express some frustrations that me and many people who followed me had. And the conversation went really well from there. I got to meet Tom Perez, who at that point was like, you know, the highest Latino, I guess, around Biden, the Biden administration. You know, I became friends with him, and then it just became this whole thing where I started meeting more and more people at the White House, and where it eventually got to the point where Biden was going to roll out this executive order on immigration. And they invited me to be there. They're like, we want, you know, people who helped kind of shape this policy and who helped work on it and all this and that. And then, like, two days before, they're like, oh, yeah. So Tom Perez was showing the President some of your videos, and, you know, the President wants to make a TikTok with you announcing the policy. And I was like, wow, that's. That's not something I expected, but it's one of those opportunities you can't turn down. So I make the video, it goes super viral, gets like 20, 20 something million views. And then at that point, media is like, wait, who is this guy? How do you get in the White House. How does he have so many followers? You know, how did this all happen? The New York Times does, like, a profile on me. They run it and everything. And that leads to a lot of attention. So when, you know, they're doing the lineup for the dnc, I guess, you know, I get mentioned, like, hey, this guy that did this at the White House, he's really cool. All this and ended up there. And so it just from there, my life has even snowballed even more. It goes, like, from being known within your community to, you know, a bigger, wider audience has just been something really very quick and very crazy all around. But I've enjoyed it.

I wanted to ask you whether you think. And this. If the answer is yes, this doesn't mean we're attacking anybody. This is just, like, a cultural thing. Do you think you were taken less seriously because your initial content was all in Spanish, mostly for the Latino community?

Yeah, I mean, that's like. That's always been. It happens to this day, even. You know, I've seen it in all sorts of. Not just in politics, like, in general. When it comes, like, you know, collaborations with brands and stuff, I meet English content creators who have, you know, a fraction of the reach I have, but they're able to command, you know, bigger pay. When you're working with, like, whatever kind of brand it may be, you know, you see it in all aspects. And I think a lot of times people, I guess, almost diminish the size of your audience or, like, the value of your audience because, you know, they speak a different language or they just don't understand the dynamics of it. But at the end of the day, you know, it is what it is. I'm fully aware of that. I try not to, like, you know, make a big deal out of it, but it is a reality, like you mentioned. That's also one of the reasons I want to get more into, like, English content, because people have told me, you know, like, hey, you know, like, if you had a tenth of the followers you had now, but they were in English, like, unfortunately, like, it's a sad reality, but it would, like, mean a lot more. And I don't take it in a bad way. I just understand, like, that the way, you know, this country works. And, like, you know, the people who watch me are not generally people, like, in positions of power, meaning like, members of Congress and, you know, people in the press and stuff like that. Because, you know, just a dynamic which for me is an honor. I get to speak to people who, in Many ways have felt ignored for so many years, which is why I think I've gotten so much popularity because, like, hey, there's this guy who's like, not trying to cater, you know, to like the usual audience. Like he's actually speaking to us for us. And I think that's really helped me grow. But it is a reality that, that, that I have, you know, accepted.

[David Pakman]

I want to talk a little bit.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

About what we've seen over the last six months in terms of the deportation program. Detentions, people being snatched off the street, people being run over in San Francisco last week. I mean, there's, there's not, there's so many things, we can't possibly squeeze it all in. But I think to get your view on, we are trying to tell a lot of the stories of what's happening. I'll give you some examples. Trump said it would be so called violent criminals, but they're going to Home Depot parking lots and farms and just getting workers. Okay, that's one story. Another story is the conditions of detainment. Another story is law and order being ignored, due process being ignored. There's all these different stories that are being told. Is there something that you think right now even we on the left are either not aware of or not amplifying enough about just like the horror of what is going on?

Yeah, so there's like, you know, it's all around, there's just so overwhelming. But I think one of the things that has been, you know, the most impactful is immigration is one of those issues that once it hits you, it creates like a whole bunch of other like, issues that just kind of snowball. Like a really real example that has happened recently. I've had a lot of like, mothers who reach out to me and they're like, hey, my husband was the sole provider for the household. He got picked up by ice, so now he's detained and we have no one to provide for the house. You know, if I go out and work, well, no one can take care of the kids. So now you're like, it's economic issues, it's childcare issues, it's medical issues, you know, people who the stress of everything that's going on is leading to, you know, heart issues and blood pressure issues. And, you know, like, you see, yeah, there's the issue of the person who actually got detained. But every time someone gets detained, you have children who are suffering, you have wives who are suffering, you have entire households. And now many people are contemplating, well, what can I do? You know, it's also impacted work. So, like, looking for work is not as easy as it used to because, you know, now people are spending less, especially in the Latino community. A lot of Latino businesses, they're getting less clients, so they're having to lay people off. It's like. It's like a snowball effect. Like, the actual immigration enforcement is like the tip of the iceberg, but it, you know, just trickles down and affects almost every single aspect of life. And I think that, like, secondary and tertiary, you know, suffering is not something that's really covered as much. And those are the cases that I'm dealing with every day trying to, how can I help these people? Even we saw the raid yesterday in California. I have, like, kids reaching out to me, like, hey, you know, my dad's the one who was going to pay for my college next semester, and now I don't have a dad because he's detained. Like, all these other issues just kind of, you know, morph into one. And it is just so overwhelming. And how do you even address all of it? It's almost impossible.

I remember when you and I and a number of other creators were at a meeting at the White House with Tom Perez. One of the things that came up was, what is going on in certain Latino communities with more Latino voters thinking about, maybe I like Trump, maybe I voted Trump. We're seeing a kind of shifting sand in the political ecosystem. It used to be the case that it was like, yes, Cubans were more reactionary, yes, some Venezuelans were more reactionary. But for the most part, this is a community that was on the political left to differing degrees. On average, more religious, maybe, than your average American. Leftist, but still religious in the way that people are Catholic in Central and South America, which is often a little more casual, a little more cultural.

Okay.

Something different does seem to be going on now where I would get calls on my show or run into people who go, no, I'm Mexican American, and.

[David Pakman]

I. I just like the way Trump's talking.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

And I just. I don't trust Biden or I don't trust Harris or even Argentinians, right, From Argentina, where I'm from, who go, no, no, no, Harris, No, I'm voting for Trump. Or are. Are you seeing that, number one? Number two, what do you think is driving it?

Yeah, so there's definitely been a major shift, you know, and these are alarms that I was sounding way before the election. That's like, you know, it's called the right word shift, but I always like to say it this Way, you know, Latinos are very unique here in the United States that we don't have a set political identity. And I mean this in a good way. Like, for example, I grew up here in Texas, and I've met a lot, you know, like, white people who say, hey, I vote Republican because my parents vote Republican and my grandparents vote Republican. It's like almost being Republican is part of your identity. And I've seen the same with a lot of black Americans who I'm friends with, I speak with, and they're like, you know, my grandparents were part of the civil rights movement. And, you know, I have this, like, political formation as part of my identity. Whereas a lot of Latinos, especially, you know, people like you and me, were either first or second generation. So I can't say, hey, you know, my grandparents have a legacy of voting Democrat or Republican because my grandparents never even lived in the United States. So we are a new community in the sense that we're still forming our political identity. And that's why you're able to see these, you know, almost insane swings from one way to another. And so when people talk about the right word shift and all this, I don't think it's a permanent shift. I think it's, you know, with the times. But just as, you know, 40 something percent voted Republican this time, that same 40 something percent can then swing back and vote Democrat the next election. And the way of doing that is really messaging on the fact that, yes, a lot of Latinos voted for Donald Trump for separate reasons. I, you know, I'm kind of a hardliner. I don't think there was any valid reason to vote for him. But I do understand that, you know, not everyone sees the world the same way that I see him. But the biggest issues we need to tackle one is Spanish messaging. I've said it a million times, and I'll say it again. I genuinely believe that if Kamala Harris would have spoken Spanish, she would have won the election. Even if she would have had a better Spanish, you know, comms team, you know, putting out messaging in Spanish, I think she would have won the election. Because what we see in Spanish language messaging is just so much misinformation being put out by the right. And I think the Democratic apparatus has not gotten, you know, good enough at combating it. And when the candidate themselves or herself can't combat it directly because she can't speak the language, you need to have a very strong, you know, apparatus behind that candidate to be able to counter these narratives. I mean, before the election, I had people saying, I'm voting for Trump because I saw that Kamala Harris hates God. And I'm like, well, you know, where is this coming from? But these are real things that are influencing real people. And so I think the messaging part is really lacking in the Democratic Party establishment, whatever you want to call it. But then, bigger than that, there's a point you hit on, which is religion, I think, and I've been a big advocate. I've gotten some pushback on this. But I do think there is a way for Democrats to message along the lines of religion in a much more humane way. Like today, I just made a video. The Archbishop of Miami came out and said, hey, what's going on in Alligator? Alcatraz is completely inhumane. And, you know, politicians should be ashamed for supporting this. Why? Because, you know, true Catholics, we read the Bible and we say, hey, the values that are being here are being spoken here are not the values being embodied by the Republican Party. So how can we, as Democrats, at least when it comes to Latinos, not shy away from religion, but lean into religion and say, hey, there is a religious route to take within the party? That means, yeah, taking care of the poor, taking care of immigrants, taking people of care of people who really need it and really embrace, I guess, almost that progressive political messaging. And then there is also the reality that there's so much fragmentation among Latinos between communities. So, you know, it sucks to say, but the majority of Mexicans I know are Mexican Americans who voted for Donald Trump. They did so because they really bought into this idea that Venezuelan migrants are ruining the country and ruining everything, and they voted, hey, I want. I want to get the Venezuelans out. And people are like, you know, you're turning against your own people. But in their mind, it's like, no, it's not my people. Those are Venezuelans, which are not my people, which, to me, like I said, I don't think it's justified. I think it's outrageous to think that way. I think we're all Latinos and we're all persecuted the same way, and I think many people are coming around to seeing that. We saw it a lot with Cubans, too. They'd been protected from immigration enforcement for so many years that they thought they were immune from this. Now you have mothers on Telemundo, Univision, they're crying, oh, my kid got detained by ice. My husband got detained by ice. I mean, the mental gymnastics people did to justify their vote for Trump is, honestly, for me, unjustifiable. But now that they're coming around, how can we capture those people and bring them back into, you know, I guess our side, if you want to call it that.

[David Pakman]

You know, last time I was in.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

Vegas, I had an Uber driver. I get in, and I don't know if. If he was listening to local talk radio or if it was like a podcast or something from a.

[David Pakman]

You know, a radio.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

So I'm not saying this was Vegas Spanish talk radio, but he was listening to Spanish political content. So we got to talking about, tell him I'm from Argentina, sky was from. From Bolivia. We get to talking, and then he realizes he recognizes me, he realizes he's seen my content, and he. I use, like, a different name on my Uber account just in case, like, for safety. Just. I don't want people to be like.

[David Pakman]

Oh, wait, I know.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

Exactly. So I use a different name. And he goes, wait a second, isn't.

[David Pakman]

Your name David Pakman?

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

And I go, yes, it is. And he goes, yeah. And he's like, oh. I'm like, yeah, sometimes, you know, I might get into an Uber with a guy who doesn't like my point of view. And he goes, well, actually, I don't like your point of view.

[David Pakman]

And I go, oh, really?

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

Like what? What don't you like about it? And he goes, I'm just not down with the communism. I. I just know too much about Latin American communism. And I go, perfect. I'm not a communist either. Tell me what you think is communist about. At the time, it was Biden who was still the nominee, and of course, there was nothing about Biden that was communistic. But it was very interesting because I'm hearing what he's listening to, which is the disinformation that you're talking about that's on Spanish language program. And the reason he doesn't support Biden is because of communism. It was like a front and center, like, wow, this is a specific vote for Trump in Nevada because of something he heard on these disinformation platforms.

Yeah, no, I mean, the disinformation. You know, when you really have those conversations, it starts to break down the narrative, because, like you said, a lot of it is based in just false narratives. But, yes, Republicans have gotten very effective at Spanish messaging, you know, infiltrating the Spanish media eco system. I think the real turning point was during the pandemic, a lot of misinformation and conspiracy theories around the vaccine, that if you take the vaccine, that that's the devil's mark and all this stuff. And, you know, I always bring this point up to people. You think misinformation is bad in English, in Spanish, it's a hundred times worse. And the reason why is because a lot of these platforms, they have content moderate, you know, they have teams that moderate the content and all this stuff. But the algorithms are designed in English. They're not there to pick up misinformation in Spanish. So in Spanish, I can go and say, I can go and say the wildest thing. And unless it's something like very, very extreme, it's not going to get picked up by the Audi, the algorithm, it's not going to get flagged, it's not going to get taken down. And so a lot of people have found that. And the reality is, you know, sensationalism and conspiracy theories, they do well on social media. So if I'm making videos saying Kamala Harris hates God and it gets 5 million views, I have no reason to stop making that kind of content. Obviously you would hope people have morals, but a lot of people unfortunately don't. So you've had a lot of these, you know, figures in the Latino. Right? They pop up and they just spew these crazy theories and people buy into them. And I'm not saying we need a spew crazy theories of our own, but we need to be equally as effective in doing the Spanish language messaging. Because I think there's a big misconception that Spanish speakers don't vote because they're immigrants with this and that there's so many people like my parents that they've been citizens for decades now, but they like to consume stuff in Spanish. Why? Because they feel more comfortable. And it's not that they don't know English, they're bilingual. My dad's a university professor. He's been teaching at A and M for 40 years. He knows English perfect, but he just likes, you know, reading things in Spanish in his language and that's normal. So how can we, you know, bake our narratives into that and then at the same time be understanding of the Latino community? Because there are, you know, some narratives that have been very frustrating to see. For example, one that always frustrates me is, oh, you know, Latinos voted for Trump because they hate women. And I'm not going to say there's no problems of sexism in the Latino community, but it's hard to say that when you have Mexico, which is a very socially conservative country with a woman president that has 80 something percent approval rating. So if the idea is that all Latinos hate women and they're never going to vote for women. How many women presidents have there been in Latin America? There's been way more women presidents in Latin America than in the United States. So while that is an issue, I'm not saying, hey, you know, machismo and sexism is not an issue in the Latino community. I've seen a lot of these narratives that try to, oh, Latinos are a lost cause because they're racist, because they're homophobic, because they're, you know, sexist. And yes, those are issues in our community, but those are issues that can be overcome with the right messaging and with the right work and the right, you know, political framework, which I think has just been missing. Many Latinos feel like the Democratic Party has no identity right now, and that's what they went with Donald Trump. They say, I know what Donald Trump stands for, which is, you know, not good stuff, but at least I know what he stands for, whereas, I don't know, you know, the Democrats, one day they'll say one thing, they'll say another. I think we really need to focus our messaging and hit it home, and it'll resonate with the community.

For this next question, I just want to make sure I'm framing it correctly. Remind me, you were born in Uruguay.

Or in the US So it's a complicated situation. I was born in Uruguay, but my dad was a citizen at the time that I was born, so I was.

A citizen of the US Yeah, I.

Was born with, like, a consular birth certificate. Yeah. It's a very long story, but, yeah, my dad came to the US in the 80s, got his master's, got his PhD here, became a university professor, and then he became a US Citizen, and I was born abroad.

So you are considered a natural born citizen, is that correct?

Yeah, something like kind of like Ted Cruz, right?

Like Ted Cruz.

Okay.

Yeah. So the context of that is, I mean, with everything that's going on and this. This talk of denaturalization of people who commit certain crimes. But like, we know with Trump, it's always like, you put an initial line, but then you start kind of coming closer and closer and closer because of your activism, because of your large reach, you're involved directly in helping folks in all sorts of different situations around the country. Are you worried that you could become a target of this administration?

I mean, I'm not really worried in the sense, like, you know, obviously you think there's stuff you think about from time to time, but if you're asking me if I'm scared, I think not really. And the reason why I think being scared in this moment would be a disservice to my community. I think, you know, the real fear is people who have been here for 10, 15, 20 years go to work or go to drop their kids off at school, and they don't know if they're going to come back home at night. You know, that, to me, is real fear. So for me to let myself and my hypothetical fear kind of cloud my ability to do my work, I think right now more than ever, we need people who are brave, people who are afraid to say things that they are. And obviously, you know, you're always cautious about, you know, where you're at. You know, I'm always checking my surroundings. I'm not gonna. You know, what I'm more afraid of is not so much the government. What I'm afraid of is, you know, especially after the pardons in January 6th, is they've almost enabled and empowered, you know, radicals to go and take matters into their own hands. So I'm not worried, you know, so much of Trump coming after me or whatever. I've always been more fearful of someone inspired by this language and by this rhetoric to think, hey, this guy is an enemy. Because, look, when you talk about immigrants being an invasion to the country, the logical conclusion of that is that anyone who is sympathetic to immigrants is therefore an enabler of an invasion. And if I support an invasion to this country, that makes me, by default, a sort of enemy. Right. So that's.

And not only that, by the way, also that anyone who does something about the problem is justified, even if it goes beyond the bounds of law.

So that's what I've always worried about, you know, like I said about the legal whatever. But when we go, like, I've always just been fearful of, like, hey, you know, all it takes is, like, one crazy radical to do something. I think maybe that's something like you mentioned with the Uber stuff, you change your name. Like, there's certain precautions that you take. But obviously, I'm gonna keep doing the work that I do. One, because I think it's right. I think it's based in my values and my principles, in my religious beliefs that, you know, I don't. If I see a brother or sister suffering, I can't just, you know, leave them, especially when I have the capability, whether it's monetarily or, you know, my platform, whatever it may be, to lend a hand, but also that there's just a bigger duty that I genuinely love this country, my parents love this country. I always tell people, you know, there's a reason my family is here. There's a reason my family's not in Russia or China or in Latin America. Because they wanted to be here in the United States, because we believe in the values of this country. And that's something that I'm willing to stand up for and, you know, do what I can to preserve because I want my future generations to grow up in the same country, which, despite having many faults, is, in my opinion, the greatest country on earth, is going down a dark path. But, I mean, it's on our hands to save it.

[David Pakman]

Yeah.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

You know, I will often get nasty emails where, when they're not overtly anti Semitic, often it will be, hey, why don't you just go back to Argentina if you hate what's going on here so much? And to me, it's, it's sort of like the, the silliest thing you could say, because why would I, why wouldn't I advocate for the country where I live to be better? Why does it mean that if I've identified a problem, the solution is I abandon the country and go some.

[David Pakman]

That.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

That doesn't make any sense. We're doing what we do because we have ideas about how to improve circumstances. We're not saying I'm going to abandon it at the first sign of a problem.

Yeah, and that's exactly right. And that's when going back to the messaging, I think that's really the message that resonates with a lot of people. We're doing what we're doing because we love this country. You know, there's been this attempt by, you know, Trumpism and Maga to paint anyone who's not Trump or MAGA as someone who hates the United States. I mean, for example, the other day he said that the senators who are proposing legislation to unmasked ICE agents, they hate this country. And that rhetoric is just so wrong. No, I love this country. I love civil liberties. I love the Constitution. That's why I don't think there should be, you know, these agencies all masked up, wearing sneakers. And I compare that, you know, that resonates with people who are also immigrants as well. I've heard so many, you know, Cuban, Venezuelans and Nicaraguans, particularly, where they'll message me and they'll be like, this is exactly what it looks like in Nicaragua and Venezuela and Cuba, you know, where you have this masked up dude. You don't know who the hell he is. He's wearing a snapback, he's wearing sneakers. He comes up picks you off the street. Next thing you know, no one knows where they're taking you. I mean, these are tactics that are being used in dictatorships. And because I love America so deeply, I don't think that should be happening here. That doesn't mean I hate this country. That doesn't mean I don't think laws shouldn't be respected. But, you know, people are starting to see that it's not about, you know, a left or right issue. It's an authoritarian versus democracy issue. And the route Trump is taking is very scary, especially for those of us who, you know, like my dad, he came from a dictatorship in Uruguay to seek a better life here in the United States. Why does he want to see the United States become what many countries in Latin America once lived, and many continue to live? It just. It doesn't make any sense.

[David Pakman]

Hey, Carlos, last thing I want to.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

Ask you before I let you go. What country has the best empanadas? And how old were you when you figured out that it's Argentina?

No. So, I mean, our area was always really. It's really funny because. So one thing I've been very effective in, you know, is, like, leaning into these different differences, you know, among Latino countries. Obviously, I'm always going to say Uruguay, because that's what I grew up eating, whatever it may be. But it's very interesting to see, you know, like, these regionalities. Like, one thing I thing I've learned to appreciate a lot is, you know, I feel like through food, I've learned a lot about cultures. Like, growing up here in Texas, almost all my friends were either from Mexico or Central American. It wasn't until I was a bit older that I started meeting, like, Venezuelans and Cubans and Colombians. And one of the ways I've been able to connect with those communities, you know, learning about their culture, which many people think, oh, Latino culture. But Latino culture is so different among, you know, throughout the continent. So I encourage people who are watching, you know, to try, hey, there's a difference between empanadas from Uruguay, Argentina, Colombia, Venezuela, wherever it may be, and, you know, really lean in and try to learn about the Latino community in that way, and then you'll start to grasp just how complex it really is and why doing work within the community is so difficult. But, yeah, I mean, I love food all around, so I'll eat whatever. That's my take on it.

An incredibly diplomatic answer, for sure.

[David Pakman]

Listen, it's.

[Carlos Eduardo Espina]

It's so good to see you. Keep on up the awesome work. And let's do this again and hope to see you in person again soon.

No, yeah, we'll be in touch. Let me know. Anything else. And I don't know how substack works, but telling the people subscribe to you. Subscribe to me. I don't know where. There must be a problem.

Subscribe to everybody. If these are my subscribers here, please make sure to subscribe to Carlos vice versa as well. Thanks so much. So good to see you.

Take care.

Okay, ciao.

[David Pakman]

So I learned a while ago that I was clenching and grinding my teeth at night. Not on purpose, not because I was necessarily stressed out by something obvious, but grinding and clenching without even knowing it. And when I talked to my dentist about it, about getting a night guard, it was a whole thing. Appointment, mold, waiting, a bill that seemed very high. And ultimately I found Remy. And Remy is our sponsor. Today, Remy sends a kit right to your door to take an impression of your teeth with super clear, step by step instructions. You send it back to them and they will custom make your night guard right here in the United States, in Las Vegas specifically. No waiting rooms, no overpriced bills. Just a better way to protect your teeth while you sleep. Try Remy Risk free at shop remy.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN to get 50% off your night guard at checkout. The link is in the description. You know that saying power doesn't just corrupt, it reveals. In Donald Trump's second term, we are not just seeing a different man. We're seeing a louder, angrier, more dangerous version of the same person that he has really always been. And if you were trying to explain Donald Trump to someone without using his name, you could just leave. List the seven deadly sins. Pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, gluttony, and sloth. Every sin, one man embodied in the most powerful office in the country and maybe the world. And now, after he clawed his way back into the White House, he's treating the presidency not as a responsibility, but really as a second chance to settle scores, to enrich himself, and to remake the country in his dystopianly authoritarian image. Now, I am not religious. Most people who watch the show know that I don't personally care about the seven deadly Sins as a sort of like a moral doctrine. But Donald Trump does claim to be a Christian, and many of his followers claim to be Christians. And he has wrapped himself in the Bible. He's posed with it upside down. He calls himself the defender of faith. Faith and his supporters treat him like he's a chosen vessel. So if we're going to use Trump's own framework, I say we do it honestly. Because if you actually believe in the values that Trump pretends to defend, you should be the first to be noticing that. Trump doesn't just fall short. He embodies the sins. Pride. Pride has been Trump's foundation. The man who once said, I alone can fix it. He's only doubled down in his second term. He brags about rescinding Biden era executive orders like it's a personal vendetta. He declared birthright citizenship over something courts will almost certainly strike down. But he did it anyway because it makes him feel powerful. He says, I'm a stable genius. He knows more than the experts. He refuses to admit he lost anything. He refuses to admit he lost the 2016 popular vote or the 2020 election. He won't admit it in court. He won't admit it in terms of polling. So Trump sees acknowledging failure as a spiritual death. So he never does it. Number two, greed. Pride alone is not the only driving force for Trump. There's greed and Trump's back to the old game. Using the presidency like a storefront, promoting properties, charging the government to stay at his own clubs doing crypto stuff, selling perfume, selling who the hell knows what gold sneakers and fake coins. AI generated trading cards. His son in law got billions from the Saudis. Trump's allies are cashing in on policy changes. And behind all of it is Trump. Trump and his greed. Number three is wrath. Always simmering under the surface, it is now fully unleashed. Trump doesn't hide it anymore. He doesn't hide it behind dog whistles. He straight up pardoned the January six rioters and he says they are hostages. He's threatening to jail prosecutors purge the civil service wants Tulsi to prosecute Obama, strip federal protection from disloyal people. According to him, he authorized ICE to use whatever means necessary to suppress protests. And he speaks about immigrants like invaders and journalists like enemies. So it's not politics, it's vengeance and it's wrath. Number four is envy. Envy is subtler with Trump. Trump, but it's there. Trump isn't just content to lead. He needs to be worshiped. And when he sees someone else as a better speaker, we know he's very envious of how President Obama was a much better speaker. When he sees other people as better looking and more handsome or whatever, when someone else gets a bigger crowd, it infuriates him. When a celebrity is liked, he says that they're washed up every time. Time magazine puts someone else's face on the COVID He's furious, serious. We then get to lust. For Trump, lust is less about sex right now, and it's more about domination. He still has the track record of bragging about sexual assault and owning teen beauty pageants and going into the dressing room and all of that. But in this term, Trump's lust is for control. He wants to be the center of every story. The Access Hollywood tape showed he believes power lets him do things. And we are seeing what happens when no one stops him. We then get to gluttony. Now, with Trump, I. I know it's like, okay, yeah, gluttony. He's obese. He eats constant fast food. There is the constant Diet Coke and fast food stuff. But the gluttony for attention and for power and for executive orders is more what I mean. He rolls back environmental protections, cancels DEI programs, hardline immigration rules. He's bingeing, in a sense, since he's a glutton for power. And then finally, sloth. It's easy to forget that underneath the chaos is this guy Trump who doesn't really want to do the work. He skips intelligence briefings. His staff still has to use pictures to get him to pay attention. He'd rather watch Fox News and rage post on Truth Social rather than running the government. Delegates everything, takes credit for anything that goes well. If it fails was someone else's fault. So the seven Deadly Sins. This is not a reinvention of Trump. He just removed the guardrails. The pride is louder. There's more greed. The wrath is more violent. The envy is more desperate. He's more consumed by lust. He's shamelessly gluttonous and much more obviously suffering. Suffering from sloth. Trump is the seven Deadly Sins. What do you think? Let me know if you've spent five minutes. In Maga world, you quickly notice one thing. Masculinity is really important to these people, or at least the idea of masculinity. Strength, dominance, alpha male energy. They talk about it all the time. They sell it like it's, you know, a protein powder. But the problem is that the people pushing this image of masculinity, these guys holding up, we are the real men. By their definitions, they are not the alpha males. They're not even close. And in fact, many of them wouldn't last 10 minutes without a private chef and a security detail and someone to tell him, you're doing so great. Now, I want to be really clear in the same way that I'm not religious. So I don't care about the seven deadly sins, but many of Trump's followers claim to be. This is not about my version of masculinity or alpha males. Like, I find the concept very lame, but we're holding them to their own standards. So I want to go down the list of some of these supposed alpha males who are some of the softest, most insecure people in American politics. Now, first of all, it's Trump, right? They worship this guy as a strongman, a dominant force, the apex predator. But Trump's a 79 year old guy, guy who wears makeup, can't walk down a ramp without assistance, is so fragile he needed cognitive tests to prove he could remember five words, doesn't exercise and is obese. He eats fast food, I guess because he thinks it's how he's going to avoid getting poisoned. He won't exercise because he thinks you have a limited amount of energy for your whole life and it just degrades when you exercise. That's not alpha, okay? That's not alpha. Stephen Miller. Miller is the guy behind a bunch of Trump's most authoritarian policies. He tries to project this hardline, icy Persona. You watch him speak, it's like watching a haunted ventriloquist dummy. He's all ideology, no presence. You put him in a gym locker room and he'd ask, how does the bench press work? Okay, but remember their standards. Their standards. J.D. vance. Vance loves to talk like he's had this rugged Appalachian upbringing, but he's a Yale law grad funded by Peter Thiel, who does whatever Peter Thiel tells him to do. And he went from like a memoir writing, memoir writing, hillbilly elegy guy to just being a maga cultist. He supposedly or apparently gave up everything he believed, did a 180 and is, yes, Trump, yes, Trump, whatever you want, want. Not very alpha. You then go to Elon Musk. Musk thinks basically that he's Tony Stark. And in reality, he's like a Reddit reply guy gamer who just has billions of dollars. That's what distinguishes Elon Musk from the average Reddit reply guy. He's constantly online, he's getting into these slap fights with random users, he's begging for likes. He panics when he gets criticized. Strong men don't sue teenagers for making fun of Tesla, ok? They don't livestream brawls from their phone and they don't cry on Twitter. So Elon Musk. No. What about Tucker Carlson? Well, Tucker to some is the voice of masculine outrage. He built an entire brand yelling about how men are being feminized. But Tucker went to boarding school, wore a bow tie half his life, ran away from a guy who challenged him. Him, he is not a man of the people. He's a trust fund kid. And he's in a panic about the fact that real masculinity doesn't look like a guy who hides behind studio lights and does moral panic monologues. Tucker? No. What about Matt Gates? Gates gives off the energy of the alpha frat house president, except he's 40 and he's giving off the energy of the frat house president who never moved out and is hanging out with the 19 year old pledges. And he struts around with the bravado of a guy who never faced a real consequence in his life. He's got the heavily engineered hair, the Botox, the eyebrows, the whole thing. By their standards, this is not the alpha guy. What about Ron DeSantis? DeSantis did try rebranding as this kind of hard nose, don't mess with me culture warrior, don't mess with Florida. But as soon as he had to campaign against Trump, he melted into this socially awkward puddle of putting fingers and sort of trying to tell people, you really should vote for me. But I'm not really going to say anything bad about Trump. And he wears the lifts in his boots to look taller. He smiles like someone off camera was like, smile, smile, Mile. It's not Alpha by their definition. All right, but now we're getting to the real Alphas in this movement. Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate sells masculinity as a product to insecure teens mostly. But the reality is that Tate is currently out of jail, under investigation for human trafficking, known for screaming into a webcam from inside a compound with armed guards. And if your whole brand is, I am the strongest man alive, and as soon as things get real, all of a sudden you shrivel. That's not really alpha. That's like you're a salesman in a bathrobe or something like that. And then finally, just because we're looking everywhere for the Alpha males. What about Eric Trump? I know Eric Trump looks like he was engineered in a lab to be ignored. He tries to act really tough. Every time he opens his mouth, he sounds like the backup weather guy with a sinus infection. And if his last name weren't Trump, he would be. You know, I don't even want to insult anyone by saying what kind of a job he would be doing, but he's the classic MAGA archetype all access, no charisma, silver spoon guy, never really built anything, never had to make it on his own. So these guys, they talk about masculinity nonstop. They say the left is feminized men, but the truth is they're insecure. They perform strength because they don't really have it. And they sell the idea of being alpha to people who are completely powerful, powerless, hoping that they won't notice it. The only thing dominant is they are constantly trying to convince others of how powerful they are and how alpha they are. And most people can see completely through it. So once again, if your standard, standard for masculinity is the one that they have laid out, they themselves completely fail to meet it. Did I miss anyone in my rundown? Let me know. We've got a great bonus show for you today. You can become a member@join pacman.com I'll be back with everybody very soon.