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- [00:00]
A
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- [01:30]
B
Hey everybody, David here. What you're about to hear is an episode of the bonus show. We do a bonus show every day for our members and for a limited time, we will release one of the week's bonus shows on Saturdays exclusively for our audio podcast listeners. If you'd like to get access to all of the bonus shows, simply sign up@join pacman.com and here is that bonus show episode. Welcome to the Bonus show. Let's discuss a little bit of the behind the scenes of getting the Kamala Harris interview. So I think this might be interesting for people. Pat, I don't know, but at my intuition is just seeing, you know, how the sausage is made, as people like to say. So basically we were offered an interview with Kamala just days before her weekend book event. And that is a really first of all, that's really common and it is so common that I will get messages like, hey, do you want to come to D.C. the day after tomorrow and do a creator row? And it's like, I wish I could. I have kids, I need child care. It's not as easy as maybe it once was to just kind of like go down there. We sometimes have to Move guests around. Okay. So they give us the offer with the Kamala thing. And initially the offer actually was we can get you in the meet and greet line with her and you can get a picture. And I said, listen, I appreciate that. I've met her in an actual structured setting at the White House. That off the record thing that we did with creators, I really appreciate it, but it's. My life is so complicated right now, between kids and travel and all these different things. I think if there was a content opportunity, I would do it. So then they said, all right, we'll come back to you. So then they came back and said, listen, here's what we can do. Much like when Don Lamon, Don Lemon went in at the end of the photo line, and I believe it was Chicago, you can hop in the photo line and do an interview, five to 10 minutes with her at the end of the photo line. I said, cool, sounds good. So we mobilize producer Pat and he makes a number of different technical determinations and smoke signals, consults with lawyers and accountants and does a seance. And finally Pat determines we're going to do the thing. Cool. So far, am I telling the story correctly?
- [03:50]
C
That all sounds accurate to me. Absolutely.
- [03:52]
B
Exactly. So the gist of this was the event is at 2. She does the meet and greet line with people who pay extra to have her sign their books and take a picture before the event. It's been taking an hour max. So the events at 2. She's going to do meet and greet at 12:30. She'll be done with the meet and greet by 130. Maybe she'll just freshen up. 1 3,145. You get your five, ten minutes. Her event starts at 2:05. Everything's good. Now, we all know, Pat, that things never happen as planned. Like, we go in knowing it's unlikely that that is exactly the way it's going to go. At least that was my approach.
- [04:32]
C
Right. I mean, I've never done anything like this before. But we were able to see the line get longer and longer and longer. So it became more and more obvious as it got closer to 2 o' clock that she wasn't going to be able to get through that entire meet and greet line by 2 o'. Clock. And of course we have to wait until the meet and greets over. And we know that the event is supposed to start at 2. Maybe they would start at 2 or 5 to 10, but yeah, certainly not much after that. So we were getting a little bit.
- [04:56]
B
Nervous there we're doing the math, because I know the first thing that will be cut is not people who paid, however much they paid to have a picture with Kamala. It's going to be the creators who showed up to do an interview. So I keep texting my contacts. Pat and I are sitting there now. In the meantime, a dozen different viewers of the show came to say hello. We met a bunch of interesting people. Dan Ko was there, who is, you know, occasional guest host on the show who's now running for Congress. And so we had things to do. But as we get closer and closer to two, and there's still this massive line where they were like, just hop in at the end of the line. So we're waiting, and the line gets longer and longer and longer. I'm getting worried. But they tell us, you're going to get the interview. You're going to get the interview at about. What was it? Right about two, when the event was supposed to actually have started and general admission was starting to get there. Someone comes over and goes, david. I say, yes. And they go, follow me. So, great. So Pat turns on the camera. He's following me. We make it to the front of one line. We make it down a bunch of stairs. There's another line. We make it around a room where people are leaving their coats, and there's another line. So we didn't even realize, like, we were so far from the actual front of this line the entire time. We had no idea.
- [06:08]
C
It's just like when you're at the airport and you're going through the gate, and you assume, okay, I'm just going to go right through the tunnel and then onto the plane. But actually, you have to go down a staircase and then through another line and then back up a staircase. And then eventually you get to the.
- [06:20]
B
Tunnel to get on, sometimes onto a bus, which takes you out to the tarmac. Yeah. So we finally get to the front, and someone goes, David, Yes. Cool. You're going in, right? In a second. And we're scrambling to get. Now. Now we're like, we have no time. We got to get the camera rolling. Let's make sure the audio is going. And then all of a sudden, something weird happens where one of the staffers goes, because Pat had a camera on a stick, essentially. Stick is not a technical term. But they go, did they okay the GoPro? And I go, yeah, of course. Yeah, We're. I mean, I said, we're. I'm bringing a producer. We're doing the thing. And they go, wait a Second, are you David? And they gave a different last name. I'm not going to say the last name because I don't even know who this person is, but it must have been some other influencer or creator. They go, are you David X? And I go, no, I'm David Pakman. And they go, oh, please step to the side. And now it's just everybody streaming through. And I'm like, oh, my God, it's like 215 to 20. At that point I thought, this is just not going to happen.
- [07:21]
C
I was starting to think that more and more. And you weren't able to stick around for after the event too. I thought there was a possibility that they would tell us, well, she can do it after, afterwards. But of course you had to go back to taking care of your daughter, so that wasn't going to be a possibility for you.
- [07:34]
B
So then it all. We're almost there. Okay, they're at the last person in the photo line. The event should have started 20 minutes earlier. And someone comes down and goes, listen, we're running so behind. I think we're going to have to do the interview after the event. Now in my head, I'm going, it's going to be a half hour till the event starts. The event's going to go long. I'm going to be here till 5pm and even then they might. Now, they had already warned me, she has to get to the next speaking gig and she's leaving directly. So I was, I was also skeptical that that would even happen. So I said, to be totally frank and, you know, I stood up for myself instead of saying, yes, yes, please, I could I have a little more gruel. I said, we've been here for two hours. Which, by the way, was. I didn't say this, but there was no reason to get there. So there was no reason we could have gotten there five minutes before. We would have been fine. We've been here for two hours. I've arranged for childcare for the first part of the day. And I was assured this would happen before the event. And then they just went, hold on a second. And within 45 seconds we were interviewing her. I mean, I think that in a sense that saved it.
- [08:41]
C
Yeah, I mean, yeah, that goes to show the power of negotiation because you were at first offered just to be able to be in the meet and greet line, get a picture with her, say a few words with her. You turn that down, get that got us the five to ten minute interview. So if you hadn't pushed back, we wouldn't have gotten that interview. And then if you had said, okay, that's fine, well, we can try to reschedule it, do it another day via zoom. Or, you know, maybe I'll try to stick around and find a way to sit through the event and then do the interview after. Like, that could have been a thing that you responded with, but the fact that you put your foot down and said, no, we've been here for a while. This is how it's going to happen. Yeah, it made them make it so they found time to do it.
- [09:20]
B
So the interview, I think, you know, it was short. We knew it would be a short interview. It's not like we went in depth on any particular issue, but I think it was good to do. I sort of. I both felt bad and agitated by the fact that it was very obvious that she was exhausted. You know, this photo line was supposed to be 55 to 60 minutes. She had been doing the photo line for two hours. Picture after picture after picture. I would be exhausted. And then to be told, now you're doing an interview. Like, I both sympathized with her. Like, I think that they're overbooking her here. And then she was going right to the next event. The event started so late, which we'll get to. I felt bad and also like this was sort of predictable where it might have made more sense to do the interview at the very beginning.
- [10:04]
C
Yeah, I mean, we did feel a little bit bad for her, but at the same time, to show up there, to be there for two hours when promised the interview and then not to get it would have been such a bummer that. That would have been unfair to us also.
- [10:18]
B
Yes.
- [10:18]
C
So, you know, I understand that that may have been a little bit stressful for her, but that just goes down to scheduling and preparation before the events more than anything else.
- [10:27]
B
Now, here's the really interesting thing. After the interview, the event is already a half hour late. So it was a two o' clock event. The interview is done at 230. Pat says he's going to stick around. I got to get. I got to get out of there. When I leave the line to get through security was four blocks long. So when I saw that the event was supposed to have started a half hour early and the line is four blocks long, I said, I don't think this event is starting anytime soon. And indeed, Pat, they said, people can't get through security. The event's going to be delayed. When did it ultimately start?
- [11:03]
C
Closer to 3 o'. Clock. They had to make an announcement saying that they were unable to get people through security fast enough because, of course, everyone has to go through the metal detectors. They had good security there with her being a former vice president and a recent presidential candidate. So people were a little bummed, but understanding. But you're right. The time that the interview ended, I walked into the auditorium, and I don't even think it was half full by that time.
- [11:27]
B
Yeah. So needless to say, there actually was plenty of time for her to take a beat.
- [11:32]
C
That's true.
- [11:32]
B
Have a sip of water, you know, and then we could have calmly done a full 10 minutes instead of five. Like, she still would have been tired from the two hours. But there was no rush to start the show is the first funny thing.
- [11:43]
C
Yeah. As it turns out. And why do you think they had us show up so early? Is it just because they want to keep tabs on any everyone? They want to make sure that they.
- [11:51]
B
Don'T want them waiting for anybody. They want us to be. This is a classic thing, you know, Friday I did MSNBC. My hit was scheduled for 635. It got delayed to 645. They had me sit on Zoom starting at 6:05. I just sat here twiddling my thumbs. You know, this is the way they do it.
- [12:08]
C
Yeah. It's a. It's a serious power move. But at the very least, they got us a little bit of time to bond together. We had a little quality hangout time.
- [12:15]
B
Exactly. Yep. So now I wasn't there for the event, Pat, but I saw on social mediums, including TikTok, that there were just protesters every five minutes.
- [12:26]
C
Yeah, I guess that's been going on at a number of her events. There were protesters every five, 10 minutes. And I got to say, at first, I didn't know what the protests were about. I assumed they were either Trump supporters or maybe it was Gaza protesting. Because what would happen is they would stand up and yell something at the stage. They'll usually start with saying something like Kamala Harris, and then start getting into what they wanted to say.
- [12:50]
B
Yeah.
- [12:51]
C
But by the time they started getting into what they wanted to say, everyone realized what was going on and they started booing that person. So you couldn't hear what they were saying over the booing. And of course, there's the strategy of waiting every 5, 10 minutes until the next protester in a different part of the auditorium gets up and they do the same thing. So, you know, you think you got every one of the protesters out, but they keep coming. And this happened Maybe four or five times. And it actually had me on edge a little bit because they were pretty rough with how they were escorting out the protesters. And he didn't know where the next protester was going to be. Right. So I'm sitting at the end of an aisle, and I'm, like, looking at the people in my aisle wondering, is anyone else going to, like, stand up and be one of the people protesting here? Because then the security is going to have to drag your body over me. It's going to get me involved. So I was actually sitting there for a few seconds, like, I wonder what the next thing is that's going to happen. But eventually, after maybe the fifth or sixth protester, Kamala Harris spoke about the issue of Gaza for about five minutes, comparing her stance on it to Joe Biden's, comparing her stance on it to Donald Trump's. And I believe that was the end of the protesters because I did have to leave a little bit early, so I didn't stay for the entire event. But, yeah, that was a notable thing from it, for sure.
- [14:02]
B
In order to leave without being noticed, did you basically just get down on hands and knees on the middle aisle and crawl out the back?
- [14:09]
C
Well, I wondered, like, the second I stand up, are people going to think that I, too, am one of these protesters? So I had to keep a low profile. I kept my voice low. I tried to hunch over and be on the sides as much as possible.
- [14:21]
B
Now, the protesters, were they all about Gaza?
- [14:24]
C
From what I could tell, yeah. The first few. I honestly couldn't hear what the message was because, as I said, like, they were booed down so quickly, but the last two were, like, closer to me, and they got to the point a lot quicker. And I guess it was about how, you know, Kamala Harris, according to them, didn't do enough to tackle the issue there.
- [14:41]
B
So it was retrospective. In other words, it wasn't about. They were angry with her for something she's doing today, but they felt that as vp, she didn't do enough to handle the situation the way they wanted.
- [14:53]
C
That was my sense. I mean, do you think that's. That's fair for them to do in the sense that she's not currently in power? Of course, like, it's not the most effective, active means of protest now, because if you view it as an active issue, then you'd want to go after Trump and the Republicans who are in charge of government right now. But, you know, if they feel as though the last administration deserves some blame, I understand protesting for that cause as well.
- [15:15]
B
Listen, I. If they. If individuals have decided I am going to buy a ticket and then I'm going to get myself thrown out and I'm going to have about a 5 to 7 second window to try to make a point and that's worth it, then they get to use their speech and then there are consequences to that speech, which in this case mean being carried out. Where is it? Would there be like four people carrying out one protester? Like, everybody takes a limb.
- [15:41]
C
Yeah, it was. It was rough. It was. It was.
- [15:45]
B
If they believe that, that is. Who am I going to say? Don't speak out in that way.
- [15:49]
C
Right.
- [15:49]
B
This might be their only opportunity to get a message to Kamala Harris. Do I think it's going to make any difference?
- [15:56]
C
No.
- [15:57]
B
I mean, she was the VP anyway. VPs don't set policy. Well, she should have convinced Biden. Okay. That applies to every vp. Anytime a president does something you don't want and she's not currently the president, so I'm kind of like, if it was worth it for them, then cool. I mean, they did it and then they got kicked out. Maybe. Maybe the message is getting to Harris, I guess. I don't know.
- [16:16]
C
Oh, I totally agree with the right to protest. I understand the issue that they're protesting for. I just wonder if Kamala Harris is the right target to go after because. Yeah, I'm not about, you know, you know, people who would be worthy of protesting. When it comes to this issue. Kamala Harris doesn't rank very highly on my list.
- [16:31]
B
Right. No, I don't. I don't disagree with that. At the end of the day, an interesting event, would you say?
- [16:37]
C
Oh, yeah, certainly worthwhile. I mean, I'm. I'm OK with it. I didn't have anything better to do that day. I didn't have any kids to take care of that day, luckily. So it didn't matter to me that I was there an extra few hours. And it was great to see how the sausage is made to some degree. It was great to speak to Dan Koh and the people that came up to us who were fans of the show. So overall, excellent experience for me.
- [16:56]
B
Did they have a Q and a, an actual formal Q and A where people were allowed to ask questions?
- [17:01]
C
Well, I left early, so I didn't.
- [17:02]
B
Oh, you left before. If that took place, you left before. Yeah. All right, all right. Well, listen, it was a very interesting experience. I do. Afterwards, when I talked to some of my contacts about the chaos, they said, this is so common. They said it's a combination of limited staff on book tour combined with overbooking, combined with inevitable security and law enforcement delays combined with during the meet and greet, everybody has something they want to say to her and it just takes longer and longer and longer. So they said this is par for the course. What most people said was you're lucky you even got the interview.
- [17:34]
C
Yeah, well, so that makes me wonder, if it was so predictable, then why do they continue to do it in this way?
- [17:40]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [17:41]
C
They try to get as much done as possible and then if there are time restraints, they're not going to have any reservations about canceling stuff.
- [17:48]
B
Let us know your thoughts. You can only do so much in five minutes, but it was good to chat with her and we'll have a new show and a full bonus show for you tomorrow. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first 3 months only. Speed slow 135 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. Cmnobile.com.