Global humiliation spreads like wildfire as dementia goes mainstream

Summary

The David Pakman Show

Episode Title: Global humiliation spreads like wildfire as dementia goes mainstream
Date: January 22, 2026
Host: David Pakman

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on a series of recent incidents that, as David Pakman frames it, have brought “global shame and humiliation” onto the United States, particularly focusing on the actions and public performances of President Donald Trump. The discussion covers immigration enforcement abuses, failed foreign policy theatrics (notably the Greenland acquisition gambit), bizarre and concerning appearances by Trump at international forums, and escalating mainstream acknowledgment of Trump’s cognitive decline. Pakman brings together commentary, media clips, and lawmakers’ reactions to expose the damaging consequences of the current administration.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. ICE Detains a 5-Year-Old – Immigration Policy's Cruelty Unveiled

Timestamps: 01:31 – 09:44

• Incident: ICE agents in Minnesota detained a 5-year-old boy named Liam Ramos, allegedly using him as bait to lure adults out of a house.
  • "This happened in Columbia Heights, Minnesota. School officials say that at least four kids from the same district have been detained this month." (03:31)
• Human cost: The boy’s brother found the house empty, with both father and brother taken into custody.
• Pakman’s argument: Even those supportive of strict immigration enforcement should be outraged by such tactics.
  • Quote: "Does the detention of a five year old qualify or count as the law and order that we were told Donald Trump would bring to the table? Or is this what happens when you just build a policy on fear and spectacle?" (06:15)
• Broader Context: This reflects the escalation from targeting “dangerous” criminals to families and young children in pursuit of unrealistically large deportation numbers.

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2. Greenland & the 'Taco Trade': Trump Tariff Threats Fizzle

Timestamps: 09:45 – 17:48

• Background: Trump threatened broad tariffs on European countries unless the US could buy Greenland.
• Reversal: Suddenly called off the tariffs after markets tanked and even Republicans and allies balked.
  • “The markets loved it. ... And analysts said this is the taco trade. Remember, taco stands for Trump Always Chickens Out.” (11:15)
• Trump’s Framing: Claimed a “framework” deal was reached, but provided no details—in fact, European leaders confirm that Greenland wasn’t even discussed.
• Financial Impact: This erratic approach sees markets yo-yoing based on Trump’s mood swings; it breeds global uncertainty.
  • Quote: “Markets are rallying because we got through another day without Trump lighting the house on fire. It is such a pathetically low bar, and this is why people call it the taco trade.” (13:40)
• Global Credibility: The repeated threats and retreats erode US standing; allies can’t distinguish “what is real versus what is in Trump’s imagination.”

Notable exchange

• Caroline Levitt (on Fox News): Praises Trump’s Davos speech, claiming “it has rave reviews because the president just tells it like it is.” (22:44)
• Pakman's rebuttal: “No, no, no, it doesn't have rave reviews. Trump was a raving lunatic during the speech. The room was alternating between aghast silence and laughing at Trump.” (22:57)

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3. The 'Greenland' Farce & Trump’s Fabrications

Timestamps: 14:54 – 17:48

• Q&A with Trump: Repeatedly dodges direct questions about whether a deal for Greenland exists; offers vague, often incoherent answers.
  • Trump: “It's a long term deal. It's the ultimate long term deal.” (15:03)
  • “Infinite.” (15:32)
• European response: Mark Ruda (NATO Secretary General) states: “Greenland never came up. It just, it wasn't even a topic.” (17:19)
• Analysis: Pakman ridicules the charade: “Trump threatened tariffs unless he gets to buy Greenland. ... They go into negotiations, no more tariffs. And NATO goes, Greenland never came up.” (17:48)

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4. Caroline Levitt’s Media Spin & the Davos Disaster

Timestamps: 22:36 – 25:00

• Levitt on Fox: Claims global leaders were “inspired” by Trump’s Davos speech.
  • Levitt: “He came here with his America first vision on full display... really inspiring a lot of leaders in Europe to take that same approach.” (23:10)
• Pakman’s Rebuttal: Points out that reaction was “alternating between aghast silence and laughing at Trump.”
  • Quote: “They were terrified by it. And every speech Trump gives to world leaders leads to more trade deals that do not involve the United States.” (23:35)
• Levitt’s further spin: Asserts Trump “solved eight wars” and doubts about Trump come from "not paying attention."
• Pakman: Counters: “Actually, anyone who doubts President Trump has been paying attention.” (25:00)

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5. Trump’s Cognitive Decline Goes Mainstream

Timestamps: 27:07 – 36:31

• Davos Speech: Trump repeatedly confuses Greenland with Iceland.
  • Trump: “They're not there for us on Iceland, that I can tell you… because of Iceland. So Iceland's already cost us a lot of money.” (27:07)
• Levitt Tries to Deflect: Claims “Greenland was referred to as a piece of ice,” denying Trump’s confusion.
• Pakman: Methodically rebuts, pointing out the public, repeated mistakes and the absurdity of Levitt’s defense.
• Main Point: The “Trump dementia” theme is now open and mainstream, not just a progressive talking point—members of Congress and media are confronting it openly.

Congressional Reactions

Timestamps: 32:28 – 36:31

• Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC):
  • “The president has been acting in increasingly erratic ways. ... We are seeing behavior from Donald Trump that is increasingly erratic and alarming.” (32:33)
• Rep. Jasmine Crockett:
  • “This is not about partisanship... based upon what some actual doctors were telling me were signs. ... We have tried to investigate this.” (34:09)
• Rep. Ramirez:
  • “We have a physically unstable, mentally ill man running the White House in this country.” (34:57)
• Rep. Beyer:
  • “Cognitive decline doesn't get better. It's only going to get worse.” (35:36)
• Rep. Ryan:
  • “He couldn't even get the country right that he is saying he wants to invade. It's incredibly dangerous.” (35:51)
• Pakman: “The cat is out of the bag. This is now going to be a story about Trump for as long as he remains president, which, if he survives, is going to be about three more years.” (36:31)

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6. Gavin Newsom Skewers Trump

Timestamps: 39:18 – 43:24

• Newsom Reacts to Trump:
  • On Trump’s speech: “It was remarkably boring. It was remarkably insignificant. It was never going to invade Greenland. It was never real. ... Fire and fury, signifying absolutely nothing, even by Trump standards.” (39:26)
• Pakman: Points out Newsom’s reaction targets Trump’s core insecurities — being ignored and considered insignificant.
• On Trump’s Sanctuary Cities talking points:
  • Pakman mocks the irrelevance of Trump's standard domestic stump speech in a global context: “Nobody is impressed by that.”
• Newsom on Trump’s mix-up:
  • “None of this is normalized. There's a normalization of deviancy and consciousness and, you know, comments and commentary. ... For the European audience, that may have been a new speech. My god, there wasn't anything new about that speech.” (42:33)

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7. Trump's Unstable TV Appearances: Policy, Ego, and Gibberish

Timestamps: 46:30 – 59:15

• Maria Bartiromo Interview:
  • Trump claims to have “fixed” affordability, though also calls it a hoax created by Democrats. (46:51)
  • Rambling, out-of-breath, and at times incoherent — draws attention to possible health issues (“Why can he not open that right eye?”)
  • On Greenland, insists US will get “total access,” despite diplomatic denials and lack of any deal. (49:52)
  • On capping credit card rates: floats a one-year 10% cap, with little follow-through on feasibility or structural fixes. (51:23)
  • Bartiromo presses Trump on “free market” moves, including US government buying stakes in Intel and defense contractors. Trump claims, “It's very free market,” despite using command-style interventions. (54:56)
• On NATO:
  • Trump questions if allies would “really be there” for the US, ignoring sacrifices made in Afghanistan and Iraq. (57:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the ICE raid:
  • “If you see this and you shrug, you are part of the moral rot and indifference that made this possible.” (05:28)
• On Trump’s tariff flip-flop:
  • “Markets are rallying because we got through another day without Trump lighting the house on fire.” (13:40)
• Trump on Greenland ‘deal’:
  • “It’s a long term deal. It’s the ultimate long term deal… Infinite… There's no time limit. It's forever.” (15:03, 15:32, 15:37)
• On the press managing Trump’s mess:
  • “Now, Mark Ruda says that the status of Greenland did not even come up during the negotiations. This is the most brilliant but also simultaneously pathetic thing.” (17:48)
• On Trump’s cognitive state:
  • “This Trump dementia thing... has gone completely mainstream with members of Congress saying, yeah, it seems like that’s what’s going on.” (31:55)
• AOC:
  • “It is really damning when we think about the degree to which mass media outlets reported on Joe Biden... yet we are seeing behavior from Donald Trump that is increasingly erratic and alarming. And everyone’s pretending that this is normal.” (32:36)
• Congresswoman Ramirez:
  • “We have a physically unstable, mentally ill man running the White House in this country.” (34:57)
• Gavin Newsom on Trump’s Davos speech:
  • “It was remarkably boring. It was remarkably insignificant... So it had fire and fury, signifying absolutely nothing, even by Trump standards.” (39:26, 39:55)
• Pakman on Trump’s economic policy:
  • “Maria, what could possibly be more free market than the government buying pieces of businesses and telling them whether they can do dividends?... That’s the total free market.” (55:00)

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Structure and Flow

• The episode follows a logical progression: starting with a hard-hitting look at border policy abuses, moving into Trump’s international blunders and policy reversals, then deeply exploring his public appearances and mental fitness.
• Throughout, Pakman’s tone combines righteous indignation, cutting sarcasm, and fact-based analysis.
• Key segments are punctuated with direct audio or transcripts from Trump, Caroline Levitt, and various lawmakers to reinforce arguments and expose the White House’s spin efforts.

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Conclusion

In this episode, David Pakman paints a picture of US leadership in crisis, marked by escalating cruelty at home, bumbling showmanship abroad, global embarrassment, and deepening concerns about the president’s mental fitness. What might have been fringe worries or partisan jabs have now, Pakman argues, become mainstream conversations—voiced not just by progressive media, but by members of Congress, global markets, and foreign leaders. The repeated inability or unwillingness of Trump and his team to speak truthfully, admit errors, or govern coherently is costing the US dearly in credibility, security, and global standing.

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Major Segments/Quotes by Timestamp:

• ICE detains 5-year-old: 01:31–09:44
• Trump tariff threats/Greenland debacle: 09:45–17:48
• Caroline Levitt & Davos spin: 22:36–25:00
• Trump’s cognitive decline goes mainstream (lawmakers weigh in): 27:07–36:31
• Gavin Newsom’s take: 39:18–43:24
• Maria Bartiromo interview (Trump’s rambling): 46:30–59:15

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Transcript

[David Pakman]

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[David Pakman]

ICE has hit a new low as federal agents detained a five year old in Minnesota. School officials say that the kid was used as bait to lure people out of a home. Is this what deporting only dangerous criminals has turned into? We are going to break down exactly what happened and why everybody in this country should be outraged. Plus, Trump chickens out on his own tariffs after hyping them for months. He backs down after allies and Republicans and the stock market freaked out. And Greenland. It's not happening, my friends. There's no plan, there's no details. And Naito says it didn't even come up during their meeting with Trump. Then Caroline Levitt has a historic meltdown and historic I would even say trying to clean up Donald Trump's cognitive mess and dementia has gone mainstream. AOC and other Members of the House straight up saying something's wrong with his brain. Gavin Newsom going not only there, but at Trump's ego, saying Trump's Davos speech was boring and insignificant. It was. And so we are covering all of it today as global shame and humiliation rain down upon the United States. And that sounds pretty bad, but we'll have some positive stuff as well. Glad you're with us. Let's do a show today. I was five years old when I came to the United States from Argentina. I knew two words in English. They were blue and stop. And now we learned that a five year old boy has been detained by by Trump's ICE goons this week in a Minneapolis suburb. This is the little boy. He was coming home from preschool. And if you don't see this as a disgusting national level crisis, you are part of the problem. This is Liam Ramos. Agents stopped him and his father in their driveway. The father ran, agents stayed with the kid. They had the kid knock on the door of the house to see who else was inside. And the school district now says he was used as bait. That is not activist rhetoric. He was, he was literally used as bait to lure people out of the house. This happened in Columbia Heights, Minnesota. School officials say that at least four kids from the same district have been detained this month. A 10 year old, a 17 year old pulled up, pulled out of a car on the way to school. Another 17 year old and a mom detained in an apartment. Armed, masked agents taking kids out of their lives in the middle of the day. And the Trump administration's line is still the same. They told us this was about violent criminals. Remember that sales pitch that we got which many of us never believed? First it was, we're going to go after the dangerous ones, the worst of the worst, murderers who are undocumented, gang members, etc. And then it shifted. It became, we are going to deport all undocumented immigrants. And now we are here detaining little kids. Preschool, kindergarten, using kids as leverage. I guess it would be preschool, actually, because if the kid is five now, we'd be starting kindergarten in the fall. And according to the district, another adult begged the agents, don't take Liam. And they refused. His older brother came home 20 minutes later, found the house empty. Dad gone, little brother gone, five year old gone. They are now in federal custody in Texas. The family's lawyer says that they've been following the asylum process. They presented themselves at the border, they applied, they waited, they did what they were told to do. You don't Just come in, you go to the border and you say, asylum is why I'm here. They did everything right and this is the result. Every single person in the country should be outraged by this. Even if you want deportations of adults who have committed crimes, even if you want deportations of adults who have committed no crime but have committed the civil infraction of being here undocumented, if you think the border is out of control, if you think, if you voted for Trump, you still should be outraged here. If you see this and you shrug, you are part of the moral rot and indifference that made this possible. Even some media outlets aren't ringing the alarm on this. Every single media outlet should be blasting this story nonstop. Every politician should be asked about this. Every so called law and order pundit should be forced to explain, why is a preschooler being treated like a fugitive. This is cruelty becoming policy. Trump promised mass deportations. He did. He promised millions and he promised speed. But the problem is that to hit those numbers, you can't just go after the violent criminal illegals because there just aren't that many. And so they lower the bar again and again and again from violent criminals to anyone undocumented to. And now we're detaining kids in preschool. This is an administration that have poured massive amounts of money into enforcement. More agents, even One guy, nearly 500 pounds, wasn't even medically cleared to work. They're like, sure, come train. We're desperate for people. More raids, more detention beds. Agencies told you got to ramp it up. But when you set quotas like that, you don't get the worst of the worst. You start getting whoever you can grab. It's families, it's kids, it's communities that are living in fear. One school board chair said they have whistles, meaning the people trying to, to protect individuals and the agents have guns. And you have to ask yourself a basic question. Does the detention of a five year old qualify or count as the law and order that we were told Donald Trump would bring to the table? Or is this what happens when you just build a policy on fear and spectacle, make unrealistic demands about deportation numbers, and then you have to start treating people as disposable and going really, really far with the cruelty. Are there any lines this administration is not willing to cross? And if you've got a preschooler detained, doesn't that cross the line? And if that doesn't cross the line for you, we are in deeper trouble than people want to admit. I would respect these magazines way more if they said, I want every undocumented person out, but what they're doing to these kids is unacceptable and it is a sign of the very moral rot that should terrify us. Disgusting stuff. And there are people I haven't seen cheering yet, but I haven't looked. There are people defending this as an appropriate way to, to get the dad who ran Donald Trump just chickened out again. It happened on a Wednesday, not a Tuesday. But Donald Trump has chickened out again. After weeks of threatening Europe with sweeping tariffs, Trump suddenly announces not going to do it. No tariffs on Germany, France, the UK, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands, Norway, Finland, nothing on February 1st. Just never mind. And you know what? The markets loved it. European stocks jumped. The footsie hit record highs. Germany's DAX and France's CAC surged. Wall street was set to open higher and it did. And analysts said this is the taco trade. Remember, taco stands for Trump always chickens out. Not a left wing insult. It's what Wall street analysts and markets are calling it. Trump posting quote Based upon a very productive meeting that I have had with the Secretary General of Naito, Mark Ruda, we have formed the framework of a future deal with respect to Greenland and in fact, the entire Arctic region. This solution, if consummated, will be a great one for the United States of America and all Naito nations. Based upon this understanding, I will not be imposing the tariffs that were scheduled to go into effect on February 1st. Additional discussions are being held concerning the Golden Dome as it pertains to Greenland. Further information will be made available as discussions Progress. Vice President J.D. vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, special envoy Steve Witkoff and others will be responsible for negotiations. They will report to me. So let me translate this into what really happened. Trump had been threatening tariffs on eight European countries unless the US could buy Greenland. He was floating tariffs and even hinting at military force to acquire Greenland. The markets panicked, stocks fell, the dollar weakened. Investors said, we're going to go to gold instead. Instead, which by the way, gold is near record highs. Foreign countries said we got to get out of this abusive relationship with the United States. And even many Republicans started to say, we're not going to do that. We're not going to let Trump do that. It's not going to happen. And suddenly Trump reverses course. He posts to social media that he had a very productive meeting. He's looking to save face for this about face. And based on that, he says tariffs will not be imposed. He says he's got a team that's going to deal with it. And instantly the markets rallied strong day yesterday, markets opening higher today. And in fact, just I hope that, that this is still accurate. Yeah, the Dow still up nearly 300 points today. The outcome, as often is the case, is Trump talks big, scares people because he is so belligerent. But. But then he folds because he realizes it's another harebrained, poorly thought out fiasco. That's the theme and we have seen it many, many times before. Notice the framing of how Trump explains it. He doesn't say the tariffs are a bad idea. He doesn't admit that it was a bad approach. He says, we've got a framework deal and it might be consummated. By the way, there's no actual deal right now and therefore he's backing off. It's like fan fiction. He can't just admit he was wrong. He can't just admit that this was a bad idea. And analysts who are thinking, wait a second, Trump is saying this, but there's not actually a deal. Analysts are reminding us, since Trump is backing off based on a deal that hasn't happened, there might not be a deal. And that might lead to this all coming back again. And this is sort of the fundamental problem. Tariffs are meant to be an economic tool deployed carefully and strategically. They are not a toy. They're not supposed to be a negotiating tactic that you can bluff on every other week. And when the president of the US Threatens massive tariffs and military force over Greenland, markets don't treat it as a joke, they treat it as a risk and they react. And then when he backs down, investigators, investors rather cheer. Not because it's good leadership, but because it was the worst case scenario that we were able to step away from at least a little bit. That that's why we are where we are. Markets are rallying because we got through another day without Trump lighting the house on fire. It is such a pathetically low bar, and this is why people call it the taco trade. Trump always chickens out, he bluffs, people panic and he retreats and claims that it's a huge win. That's with the tariffs. Trump did not bluster and then back out. With the kidnapping of Maduro or bombing Iran or whatever else, it's not always the case. It seems that with the tariffs, it's the way it goes. The damage is still real. Because even if you threaten tariffs or even put them in place and then back them off, confidence in the United States as a policymaker or steady trading partner is eroding because allies don't know what to expect. Corporations don't know what to expect, investors don't know what to expect. And so you've got this whiplash of the global markets. And so it's good the trade war didn't start this week. A new trade war, but it's insane that we celebrate it as a win under any normal president. Threatening tariffs on half of Europe to buy Greenland and then backing off is completely bonkers. And it never would have started in the first place. For Trump, it's another, you know, Wednesday now into Thursday. And the wild reality is that when actually pressed about, wait a second, does the deal include Greenland the way you said it would? Trump struggles to answer, because of course it doesn't. I want to talk about that next. Trump is lost on Greenland, or to put it a different way, Trump lost Greenland and now he is cowering in fear and his pathetic lies are being exposed. He has no plan, just shame. Let me explain what's going on. Donald Trump threatened a bunch of European countries with tariffs if he wasn't going to be allowed to buy Greenland. As I told you in the last segment, Trump then posted the Truth Social. I'm not doing the tariffs because we have struck a great deal. Certainly we would assume, well, that must be a deal to get Greenland, right? Wrong. Trump was asked by Kaitlan Collins, does the deal that got you to pause the tariffs include the United States getting Greenland like you've said all along? And Trump goes, well, it's a very long term deal. The answer is no, folks, he's not getting Greenland.

[Caroline Levitt]

Still include you? Does it still include, does it still include the United States having ownership of Greenland like you've said you wanted?

[Donald Trump]

It's a long term deal. It's the ultimate long term deal.

[David Pakman]

Translation, it does not. We are not getting Greenland.

[Donald Trump]

And I think it puts everybody in a really good position, especially as it pertains to security and minerals and everything else.

[Caroline Levitt]

How long, how long is it, Mr. President?

[David Pakman]

Have you really spoken to other European leaders?

[Donald Trump]

Yes, I have.

[Weight Watchers Representative]

How long, how long would the deal be, Mr. President?

[Donald Trump]

Infinite.

[David Pakman]

It's an infinite deal.

[Donald Trump]

There's no time limit. It's forever.

[Caroline Levitt]

And how would you ratify the deal?

[Donald Trump]

It's signed forever.

[Caroline Levitt]

You haven't signed anything yet, right?

[Donald Trump]

It's a deal that's forever. Will there be anyway, will there be an aspect. But people are people. What happens is people are out there and they're working it right now. They're working the details of the deal.

[David Pakman]

But all the deals are going to. All the details of the deal are going to be worked out. So direct question, yes or no. Does the deal include you getting to buy Greenland because you said you needed to get to buy it or you were going to do tariffs? You're not doing the tariffs. So is it because you get to buy Greenland? Trump doesn't answer it. He instead gives this filler phrase, it's a long term deal, which means nothing. Either the deal includes you getting to buy Greenland or it doesn't. And of course it doesn't. It just doesn't. We all know that Trump's not buying Greenland. He sold all of this as this important political geopolitical move for national security. We got to prevent Russia and China from getting Greenland and it's all got to happen. But he's giving it up. Compare it to the concept of a plan. Same kind of pattern. Now, Mark Ruda says that the status of Greenland did not even come up during the negotiations. This is, this is the most brilliant but also simultaneously pathetic thing. Trump threatened tariffs unless he gets to buy Greenland. Then he goes, we had a great negotiation, so I don't need to do the tariffs, so do you get to buy Greenland? Trump goes, well, it's a long term deal. Mark Rota says Greenland didn't even come up. It's not even a topic of discussion.

[Donald Trump]

During this Speaker 1 spending, maybe US military presence. But what I don't hear is Greenland still.

[David Pakman]

Is it still under the Kingdom of.

[Donald Trump]

Denmark in this framework deal?

[David Pakman]

That issue did not come up anymore.

[Donald Trump]

In my conversations tonight, Mr. President. He's very much focused on what do.

[David Pakman]

We need to do to make sure.

[Donald Trump]

That that huge Arctic region where change is taking place at the moment, where the Chinese and Russians are more and.

[David Pakman]

More active, how we can protect that.

[Donald Trump]

That was really the focus of our discussions with.

[Libsyn Ads Narrator]

Right.

[Donald Trump]

And obviously there's the.

[David Pakman]

Nothing says serious negotiation like the reason for the negotiation never coming up.

[Donald Trump]

Never came up.

[David Pakman]

They never even talked about it. Greenland's status and ownership was never even discussed. Trump either overstated or invented the scope of the deal. Trump announced. We had a great conversation about the Greenland stuff and the Arctic and now I don't need to do tariffs anymore. So what's the status of Greenland? It's a long term deal. Greenland never came up. It simply did not get mentioned. The level to which this pathetically and humiliatingly undermines American credibility with allies and with markets. Trump announces world shaking policy. Either we get Greenland or we tariff. Eight European nations, they go into negotiations, no more tariffs. And Naito goes, Greenland never came up. It just, it wasn't even a topic. Trump declares victory and allies go. This is, this is fake. So now markets are in the position of having to guess what is real versus what is in Trump's imagination. Is there even a deal? Because, remember, Trump is saying there's a framework. Nothing's been signed. And, and Rudder is saying, yeah, I mean, we had a discussion and we have a framework, but the topic of Greenland didn't even come up. Does Trump know that Greenland's not part of the deal? Is Trump going to go in a week when they present him with the actual paperwork of the deal? If that will happen, will Trump go, wait a second. The Greenland stuff's not in here. The tariffs are back on. We have no idea. And what this has now positioned the administration to have to do is to clean up Trump's mess and Trump's lies. And that is exactly what Caroline Levitt attempted to do but failed to do. We'll look at that after the break. Most scammers rely on information that's already public. Your name, address, phone number, family connections. A lot of that is online and available to be scraped and abused. Our sponsor, Incogni, reduces the risk by removing you from the Internet wherever that personal data appears. It works across many types of websites, not just one category. So scammers have fewer ways to piece things together. About you. Incogni automatically submits removal requests to hundreds of sites on your behalf. But the standout feature is custom removals, where you find your information on any website, even one not in their database. You paste the link and Incogni's team will get to work to remove it. I can tell you I've personally been getting way fewer scam and spam calls and messages ever since I started using Incogni. You can accomplish a lot quickly with Incogni. Protect yourself before your data is used against you. Get 60% off when you go to incogni.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN. The link is in the description. The David Pakman show remains an independent audience supported program into 2026. I want to say thank you to all of our newest supporters through the website membership program. Those are Liam Coulter and Melissa Drucker. Thank you to both of you. You can sign up@join pacman.com and if you missed the membership drive on Tuesday with the massive, ungodly, unethical, immoral membership discount and you want to take advantage of that, we'll make it available to you. Send me an email info@david pakman.com say David, give me that coupon code we we have not yet gotten back to the last 18 people to write in. We'll get you the code. We will. We're just a little backed up. Glad for you to join at that discounted rate. And remember to get my free substack newsletter@substack. David pakman.com you know, there's a phrase, when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. But if life gives you rotten lemons, you probably bear bury them in the backyard and hope it'll help your plants grow or something, I don't know. That's the situation that White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt finds herself in now. Because after Donald Trump was completely humiliated and globally shamed during his various Davos declarations and then announced that he doesn't have to tariff Europe because they made a deal on Greenland and it turns out there's no deal on Greenland as part of that framework of a deal. Caroline Levitt went on Fox News and said Trump's speech was unbelievable. Everybody loved it. It was inspirational. Now, we reviewed a number of clips of Trump's speech. What I propose we do is listen to what Caroline Levitt said about the speech and think to ourselves, is this an accurate representation of how Trump's speech was received? I don't know. Let's take a listen.

[Caroline Levitt]

Meeting with today and discussing with and I know they were all very pleased with his speech. I was in the room, John, and it has rave reviews because the president just tells it like it is.

[David Pakman]

And no, no, no, it doesn't have rave reviews. Trump was a raving lunatic during the speech. The room was alternating between aghast silence and laughing at Trump. That is what the reaction was in the room. But Caroline Levitt's been handed some rotten lemons and you can't come up empty handed when you've been handed anything by Donald Trump.

[Caroline Levitt]

He came here with his America first vision on full display, talking about how the American economy is booming once again through massive deregulation, an energy boom, the president fulfilling his promise to drill, baby, drill. You look at the tax cuts he signed into law. All of these things coming together to put together a really exceptional American economy. And I think he's really inspiring a lot of leaders in Europe to take that same approach.

[David Pakman]

She thinks that European leaders were inspired by Trump's speech. They were terrified by it. And every speech Trump gives to world leaders leads to more trade deals that do not involve the United States. As world leaders go, this guy's nuts. Let's make our own deals and cut.

[Caroline Levitt]

Them out green new scam, energy, failed policies of Europe and mass migration are failing these great countries. And so I think the President really struck an inspirational tone with all of them today. But, of course, that has yet to be seen.

[David Pakman]

If they, you know, I have to tell you, I think that that's true. The speech was extremely inspirational in that it inspired many of our allies to say, we're not doing business with this demented lunatic. In that sense, it was inspirational. I have to hand it to her. She's probably right. Caroline Levitt continuing to just, you know, drivel was dribbling out of her mouth during this interview.

[Caroline Levitt]

So we'll see how these negotiations continue. But I would again just point out that to everyone who thinks this is a very ambitious and perhaps crazy idea as it's being spun up in the media, this is something presidents have talked about for a long time. And look at the deals President Trump has been able to broker over the past year. The release of the Israeli hostages, eight wars solved because of his negotiating skills. Anyone who doubts President Trump clearly has not been paying attention.

[David Pakman]

Actually, anyone who doubts President Trump has been paying attention. The only people who would be confident in Donald Trump at this point would be those who have not been paying attention. This is an impossible situation. Caroline Levitt is in. I don't feel bad for her. She's choosing it. She's a horrible person. She's dishonest, She's a liar. The more she lies, the bigger cross she hangs from her neck, I guess in some kind of penance, subconsciously. But she is in an impossible situation. Trump is failing on every level. Trump is underwater domestically among voters on every single issue, even his signature issues of bringing prices down, immigration and bringing crime down. There is not a single issue Trump has a positive polling indicator on. And she now has to go on TV and go, it's awesome. Everybody's so impressed with Trump. The world leaders are impressed. Everybody's impressed. But above all else, there is one particular issue that Caroline Levitt is increasingly in the position of having to clean up and defend, and she can't do it. And it is Donald Trump's cognitive state, and that was front and center over the last 24 hours. The White House and Caroline Levitt are cornered now in a position, as Trump declines daily, of having to explain how he is completely and totally fine. We're going to look at one vignette now, of course, we could delve more deeply into the fact that Trump said he had an MRI when he didn't, and then Caroline Levitt Spent two months talking about the MRI when there was no mri. We later found out it was a CAT scan. Trump still doesn't know why he got it, and he didn't even know what he had gotten. So we could talk about that. We could talk about Donald Trump visibly disoriented in different scenarios, including easy interviews. We're not going to do any of that. Let's just do one vignette. Yesterday, Donald Trump, during his speech in Davos, when talking about Greenland, numerous times referred to it as Iceland. I'm going to play the clip for you. This is an example.

[Donald Trump]

Know that they'd be there for us. They're not there for us on Iceland, that I can tell you. I mean, our stock market took the first dip yesterday because of Iceland. So Iceland's already cost us a lot of money.

[David Pakman]

Three times, Trump says Iceland, three times. He's talking about, or hoping to talk about Greenland, but his brain isn't working. Remember, Greenland's covered in ice, Iceland's covered in green much of the year, not all of the year. So that's a real cognitive mess. That, that, that is an abortive cognitive fiasco. So Libby Dean, a NewsNation White House correspondent, takes to X and puts out an excretion where she says, during his World Economic Forum remarks, Trump appeared to mix up Greenland and Iceland around three times. And in jumps Caroline Levitt. And she says, no, he didn't, Libby. His written remarks referred to Greenland as a piece of ice because that's what it is. You're the only one mixing anything up here. Well, let's look at the clip one more time and evaluate.

[Donald Trump]

Know that they'd be there for us. They're not there for us on Iceland, that I can tell you. I mean, our stock market took the first dip yesterday because of Iceland. So Iceland's already cost us a lot of money.

[David Pakman]

That's three times, Three times that Trump said Iceland. Now, if what happened is that Trump's script said a piece of ice, which is an idiotic explanation, then Trump doesn't know how to read. In other words, the only way to defend this as, oh, no, Trump script is said Greenland is a piece of ice. Well, Trump called it Iceland three times. So is it that Trump is confused between Greenland and Iceland, or is it that Trump doesn't know how to read? And by the way, it seems that Donald Trump is of limited reading ability. Trump seems to have nominal, limited literacy. And that is sadly, sadly, it's increasingly common in the United States as people are graduating college and high school in Some cases barely able to read and write. But that's a different story. So who do you believe? I mean, quite simply, did Trump not get it wrong or did Trump mix up Iceland and Greenland three times at least during the speech? And Caroline Levitt comes out and she attacks reporters and she says, no, he didn't. How dare you even suggest that? But there is a sea change happening right now. I put my finger to the wind yesterday and I felt something run down my arm. And what that is, is that this Trump dementia thing, this Trump cognitive decline thing, there was a time when it was only shows like ours talking about it. That was it. It was only shows like ours bringing on neurologists and mental health professionals and psychiatrists and psychologists. We, we. And other shows like ours were the only one talking about it. Eventually we started seeing little pieces of it. Msnbc, Ali Velshi the hell is wrong with Trump? Gavin Newscomb would say, this guy's declining this. He is exhibiting symptoms of dementia. But now it has gone completely mainstream with members of Congress saying, yeah, it seems like that's what's going on. Let's talk about that next. Many VPNs claim they don't track you. Only one can prove it, and that's our sponsor, Private Internet access. Private Internet access is the only VPN with multiple real world court cases showing that when law enforcement requests user logs, they don't have them because they don't log anything. Their software is open source. Anyone can inspect the code and confirm that there's transparency that you do not normally see in the VPN industry. You can use one account on unlimited devices, phone, laptop, tablet, even your router. Works with Netflix and YouTube and streaming services worldwide. It is like a secure tunnel between you and the Internet that nobody can see into. I've been using PIA for years. It's one of the few privacy or security tools I truly trust. Get 83% off just 203amonth plus 4 extra months free at PIA. VPN.com PACMAN the link is in the description. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez and a whole bunch of other members of the House are no longer playing coy about Trump dementia. They are straight up saying something is going on with Trump. And how could you not come to that conclusion after 24:36 hours that include Trump's various speeches and press conferences in Davos, Switzerland as well, of course, as Donald Trump's completely deranged and feeble press conference that he gave at the White House before leaving for Switzerland, they're all now going, yeah, that something's going on. We start. By the way, this is really good stuff from Pablo Reports, AKA Pablo Manriquez from Midas Touch. He was on Capitol Hill yesterday and he interviewed a bunch of members of the House, starting with aoc. And here's what she had to say real quick.

[Congresswoman/Jasmine Crockett or other Congress members]

How big of a factor is Donald Trump's cognitive decline, given what we're seeing at Davos?

[Weight Watchers Representative]

I think that the president has been acting in increasingly erratic ways. I think it is really damning when we think think about the degree to which mass media outlets reported on Joe Biden and yet, and you know, that resulted in the Democratic Party changing its nominee, etc. Yet we are seeing behavior from Donald Trump that is increasingly erratic and alarming. And everyone's pretending that this is normal.

[David Pakman]

Right.

[Weight Watchers Representative]

I don't really understand why that is. It is very bizarre. But then importantly, I think that for our European partners and for our global.

[Donald Trump]

Partners.

[Weight Watchers Representative]

I think what they also see is the result of not just one man. Right. But also the entire government apparatus and a party that is willing to watch someone decompensate.

[David Pakman]

Yep. Is our allies are wondering, is Trump non compost mentis, and are the people around him just allowing it to get worse and worse and doing nothing about it? Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett was asked about.

[Congresswoman/Jasmine Crockett or other Congress members]

Congresswoman, given what we've seen at Davos and throughout his presidency, what do you make of Donald Trump's cognitive decline? People are saying it's only going to get worse. Like, what does Congress need to do about it?

[Weight Watchers Representative]

Yeah, I honestly don't think that he was equipped to actually swear into office in the first place. But I did have serious concerns. And this is not about partisanship. This is not about how he and I spar. This is literally based upon what some actual doctors were telling me were signs. And so we have tried to investigate this. As a member of the Oversight Committee, I launched an investigation request requiring and asking that we get answers about not only his mental fitness, but also his physical fitness. And they've yet to respond.

[David Pakman]

Congresswoman, you're not going to get that information from this administration, that's for sure. Congresswoman Ramirez asked about it. She straight up says Trump's mentally ill. Like we have a mentally ill president. Straight up.

[Congresswoman/Jasmine Crockett or other Congress members]

Congresswoman, real quick, how big of a factor is Donald Trump's cognitive decline, given what we're seeing in Davos right now?

[Weight Watchers Representative]

We have a physically unstable, mentally ill man running the White House in this country.

[Caroline Levitt]

It is extremely serious. And you certainly see the consequences of it every single day, the American people are hurting. Everything is more expensive, people are dying in the streets. He is becoming richer and he doesn't even know what he's talking about. It's dangerous and he should resign.

[David Pakman]

Congressman Beyer straight up says this is progressive. He says cognitive decline doesn't get better and that that is the direction this is going to go.

[Congresswoman/Jasmine Crockett or other Congress members]

Congressman, real quick, how big of a factor is Donald Trump's cognitive decline after what we've been seeing him say in Davos this week?

[Donald Trump]

It's very significant.

[Gavin Newsom]

And sadly, cognitive decline doesn't get better. It's only going to get worse in.

[Donald Trump]

The weeks to come.

[David Pakman]

And finally, Congressman Ryan also saying Trump's not getting even right, the names of the countries he wants to invade.

[Congresswoman/Jasmine Crockett or other Congress members]

And just on another topic, Donald Trump's cogn, we saw him say some really crazy things at Davos. What does that mean for the future, for the rest of this term? Well, we've been seeing this, and the fact that he couldn't even get the country right, that he is saying he wants to invade, it's incredibly dangerous. I think what's important for people to know, I served 27 months in combat. When you're out there making threats of our allies, the American people are now less safe. And that's at the end of the day, that's our her job. His cognitive decline is well documented, but that can't be at the expense of my constituents and especially the people in uniform. I mean, this makes them less safe.

[David Pakman]

Listen, this is, this, the cat is out of the bag. This, this is now going to plague Donald Trump as it should for the rest of his presidency. And if I played some small part in bringing this topic to the forefront, along with our friends and allies in independent media, than it is a service to the country, I believe. And as I've said before, unless Trump dies, he's serving out the rest of his term. There are not going to be votes enough or people on Trump's cabinet. If we think about the 25th amendment, it is not going to happen. But a final three years of Trump's presidency, two of which hopefully after 2026, will include Trump not having control of the House. And these last three years, with this issue of Trump's cognitive decline front and center, this is hopefully going to function to maybe limit the damage that Donald Trump is able to do. Although on the other hand, the cognitive decline itself might foment more damage, and that would be terrifying and scary and something we have to deal with as well. The notice that none of Those members of the House said, not really comfortable commenting about that. You know, I'm just not sure about cognitive decline, not sure about dementia. No, no, no. They all weighed in. They all realize it's happening. And this is now going to be a story about Trump for as long as he remains president, which, if he survives, is going to be about three more years. California Governor Gavin Newsom was also in Davos, Switzerland, for the World Economic Forum. And he really hit Donald Trump where it hurts. You know, there are a couple of things that really hurt Donald Trump, and one of them is when people aren't impressed by him, when people don't like him, when people find his speeches boring, when people don't care, when people find him inconsequential. And Gavin Newsom, when interviewed by Kaitlan Collins after Trump's speech, during which he talked about Gavin Newsom, and Gavin Newsom was sitting there in the room, said it was a remarkably boring speech and it was a remarkably insignificant speech. These criticisms go to Trump's most important insecurities. He wants to be liked. He wants to be seen as strong and powerful. He wants to feel that he is possessing gravitas to a great degree. And Gavin Newsom denied him all of that. And we know from how much time Trump spent attacking Newsom during his speech that Trump is paying attention to Gavin Newsom. Trump probably, quite frankly, is enamored with Gavin Newsom, and much like Trump, is jealous of Obama and wants to be Obama, and Obama is so much of what Trump isn't Obama. I think it's increasingly the same thing with Gavin Newsom.

[Caroline Levitt]

Trump, during that speech, what was your reaction to what he had to say about you?

[David Pakman]

None.

[Gavin Newsom]

I think he said something very different last night. I didn't hear new scum. I heard new green scam. But I mean, come on, that's, it's, it was remarkably boring. It was remarkably insignificant. It was never going to invade Greenland. It was never real. So that was always a fade. And so he says, you what? We should negotiate. Well, everybody here has been willing to.

[Donald Trump]

Negotiate for a year.

[Gavin Newsom]

So it had fire and fury, signifying absolutely nothing, even by Trump standards. I was rather curious and there was boorish parts of it, but those were not even that consequential, including name checking people he likes, people he didn't like. So, you know, I, I, I just, I was not. Honestly, it was just, I was a little disappointed. It was anomplus.

[David Pakman]

What Trump hates the most is people who go, I don't give a shit what Trump said. It was so boring and stupid and insignificant. Trump's ego cannot handle that. Here is just a little bit of when Trump started talking about Gavin Newsom. And hilariously, you will see the camera look around and actually find Newsom, who seems to be experiencing a moment of pure joy, quite frankly, as this is taking place as Trump humiliates himself.

[Donald Trump]

We're going to help the people in California. We want to have no crime. I know Gavin was here. I used to get along so great with Gavin when I was president. Gavin's a good guy.

[David Pakman]

And by the way, when I was president, you're president now.

[Donald Trump]

If he needed it, I would do it in a heartbeat. I'd love to see. We did help them a lot in Los Angeles, a lot with the early. Early in my term when they had some problems. Problems. But we would love to do. I would say this, if I were Democrat, governor or whatever, I would call up Trump. I say, come on in.

[David Pakman]

If you're not watching and just listening, the camera is on Newsom in the audience, and he just seems so entertained by this look.

[Donald Trump]

Good. Because we're cutting crime down to nothing and we're taking people out, career criminals who are only going to do bad things, and we're bringing them back to their countries. But where we've done it has been amazing and we have a capacity to do it at much greater levels. We're cutting illegal aliens off welfare and other government benefits. And I've directed that starting immediately, there will be no more payments to sanctuary cities, because they are really just sanctuaries for criminals. They're really protecting criminals. And those are the ones we have to get out of the curtain. Murderers, drug dealers, the mentally insane. They emptied their mental institutions into the United States. And despite that, we have the lowest crime numbers that we've ever had in the history of the country. Just came out.

[David Pakman]

But anyway, Newsom seemingly not particularly threatened by this. Kaitlan Collins also asking Gavin Newsom, what about that weird shit? My word, not her. Where Trump mixed up Iceland and Greenland multiple times.

[Caroline Levitt]

Did it stand out to you that he said Iceland multiple times when he.

[Gavin Newsom]

Was talking about Greenland, you know, and that every time a windmill turns, it costs $1,000? A lot of stuff stands out. None of this is normalized. There's a normalization of deviancy and consciousness and, you know, comments and commentary. No other president. He's held to the curve. He's graded on a curve. I mean, it's a really some jaw dropping and remarkable statements that just, you know, fly in the face of facts and evidence and Common sense. So, but they're so. You've heard them over and over and over again again. For the European audience, that may have.

[Donald Trump]

Been a new speech.

[Gavin Newsom]

My God, there wasn't anything new about that speech. For the American audience, the only thing that was new is he said he's willing to, to negotiate. But wait a sec, that's not new either because he's been saying we've wanted to negotiate for over a year.

[Caroline Levitt]

You criticize.

[David Pakman]

You know what's really funny? Trump, as Gavin Newsom points out, gives the same damn speech no matter where he is, and he thinks people are interested by it. Do you think that dignitaries and leaders from Switzerland and France and the UK and all these different countries, do you think they're interested when Trump comes in and goes Democrats with sanctuary cities and blah, blah, blah, and do you think they give a damn about that stuff? Trump sounds nuts. Trump is not able to conceive of the fact that what these, what would make him look much better, quite frankly, is if he showed up and he said, you know, it's so great to be here to bring the good news of how we are moving the country of the United States, States to the future. By the way, Trump's not doing any of this stuff. But imagine if you were. This is what would impress our allies. We, as such a wealthy country have committed to ending hunger in the next five years, which we could do. And why hasn't anybody done it? We've got the money and we're going to do it. And we are going to do completely new train infrastructure. And our train system is going to be the envy of the world. No longer will you have to look to Europe or to the Eastern Hemisphere. We are going to show you what a country like the United States can do on public transit and on housing. Every single veteran is going. The point is that's the way that Trump would actually impress the people in that room complaining about Gavin Newsom. We used to get along so well when I was president, sir. You're president now, and sanctuary cities and blah, blah, it's. Nobody is impressed by that. And Gavin Newsom understands that and seems to have picked up on that. And so after all of this stuff, Trump gets to be interviewed by Maria Bartiromo. Finally. It's going to be easy, right? Right. Wrong. The David Pakman show is an audience supported program. And the best, most direct way to support support the show is by becoming a member@join pacman.com you'll get the daily bonus show, the daily commercial free show, and plenty of other great membership perks. Get the full experience by signing up@join pacman.com a sickly, swollen, disheveled orange Trump with a right eye almost completely swollen shut has gone viral for this interview with Maria Bartiromo. Maria Bartiromo is one of the biggest Trump suck ups that there is. And she asked him easy questions. And Trump couldn't keep it together. He couldn't seem like a normal Campos Mentis person bragging about affordability. We fixed affordability, but actually the whole thing was a Democratic hoax. Wait, so did you fix it or was it a hoax?

[Maria Bartiromo]

Let me talk about affordability because just in the last 100 days you announced a list of things that you want to be putting in place, bringing down the cost on a number of things. A 10% cap on credit cards. $200 billion in purchases of mortgage backed securities, banning institutions from owning single family homes. How soon would you expect those policies to actually move the needle on cost?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I think they're going to kick in pretty quickly. But we're doing great on affordability. You know, that's a word that the Democrats made up. They're the ones that caused the problem. When I inherited this, when I came into office I had eggs that were five times higher than they ever were. And the people were screaming at me. Remember the famous like two days after I come in, what about eggs? What about eggs?

[Maria Bartiromo]

I just got to office.

[Donald Trump]

I said do we have a problem with eggs? I just got here. Right, but. And we have that down now. Lower. But food prices are coming down. Look at gas station gasoline. A dollar 99 in a lot of places. We're down to a dollar 99 in a lot of places with 230 overall. But we're.

[David Pakman]

I fixed the problem that didn't exist which Democrats caused to a dollar.

[Donald Trump]

It was 4,5500. I mean think of it. It was for you. You were spending in a lot of places over $5. We have it at A$99. That's better.

[David Pakman]

You go. So this is not a problem. It's a Democratic hoax problem which was caused by Joe Biden. And I fixed it. But there was never any problem at all. Donald Trump is putting forward a budget. We've already reported to you that despite being the anti war president who is also going to be fiscally conservative, Trump is asking for a 55 or 60% increase to the military budget, wants to push it from 960 billion to 1.5 trillion. Maria Bartiromo says, what is in your budget? And Trump goes it's way too early to know. I mean, I've got a couple of weeks still, as we know. If Trump has a couple of weeks to do something, he's not starting until the night before. He's the one who would wait until the last day for the assignments.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Are you going to release a budget next month and do you want to see another reconciliation?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I think we have a problem because I think we're going to probably end up in another Democrat shutdown because that's the only way. You know, when we came out with the numbers over five, everyone was shocked. But remember, we would have been up a point and a half more. We would have been.

[David Pakman]

And by the way, do not adjust your screens or your devices. Trump is out of breath just standing there. That is not an audio glitch.

[Donald Trump]

Six and a half, maybe more than that. Except for the shutdown. The shutdown costs us a lot and I think they'll probably do it again. That's my feeling. Well, we'll see what happens.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Will you release a budget?

[Donald Trump]

We're going to have a budget.

[Maria Bartiromo]

What's in the budget?

[Donald Trump]

What's too early? I mean, you know, we have a long way. You know, that's an eternity. When you talk about a couple of weeks in this world, that's an eternity. But we're negotiating the budget right now. We're negotiating health care. I don't want the insurance companies to get the money. I want the money to be paid directly back to the people.

[David Pakman]

Barely coherent. I mean, barely coherent. And why can he not open that right eye? The medical science should really study what is going on with that. The question of Greenland came up. Now understand that this was after Donald Trump gave up on Greenland. He already said, hey, we're not doing any of the tariffs I threatened because we figured out Greenland. And then Mark Rudda from the, from Naito said the topic of Greenland didn't even come up. Trump goes, well, I, I don't know. He hedges, let me tell you right now, the United States will not be acquiring Greenland because the GDP of Greenland.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Is like $3.3 billion. But people are valuing Greenland of between 50 billion and almost a trillion. So what are you willing to pay for Greenland?

[Donald Trump]

Well, I'm not going to have to pay anything. We're going to have total access to Greenland. We're going to have all, we're going.

[David Pakman]

To have total access, AKA we are.

[Donald Trump]

Not going to get access that we want. We're going to be able to put what we need on Greenland because we want it. We're talking about national security and international security. So we're going to not have to pay anything other than the fact that we are building the, the Golden Dome. And the Golden Dome is going to be some, something that's going to be very amazing. It'll be Israel Times, probably 100. And we need it. I think we need it. And it's all going to be made in the United States. We have the best weapons in the world. We have the best companies in the world. We want them to produce faster.

[David Pakman]

And so this is where a narrator would come in if this was a documentary and would say the United States did not ultimately acquire Greenland. Now Trump has to pretend to be a big boy here. He can't just go, you know what, Maria? After spending three months saying the US Must acquire Greenland, it is imperative, it is non negotiable. He can't just go, we're not going to get it. He can't do it. His ego won't let him and he just can't do it. So instead, after markets crashed and allies bailed and even some Republicans said no way, Trump has to save face by saying, well, we're still negotiating. We're going to figure this out. The United States is not going to acquire Greenland. The Greenland farce is dead. Trump asked about his idea of cutting credit card rates. Interest rates for a year, just for a year wouldn't change any of the rules about how credit cards can be predatory or any of it. And the whole plan doesn't really make.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Sense on the cap on credit card rates. And of course, they were up to 28, 30% in some cases. But one analyst, how can you do that?

[Donald Trump]

Look, I'm all fair free enterprise and everything else, but you have a guy goes out and he's a little bit late on his payment and he ends up filing for bankruptcy. Right? 28%. Whatever happened to usury? Whatever happened? You know, these have laws that you can't charge too much, but 28%, 30%.

[David Pakman]

Listen, credit card interest rates are a problem. The entire world of credit cards is extraordinarily predatory. And if I really want to be charitable, I mean, listen, if you put a temporary cap on interest rates, so for a year, interest rates on credit cards are 10% instead of 19 or 23 or whatever, you're going to lower minimum payments for people, less interest is going to accrue. I mean, that is real. I don't want to pretend that that's not anything. It's also easy to understand. Whereas other ideas maybe are more complicated. The real issue with this is that, like much of what Trump does, which, you know, some of the bad provisions of Trump's tax, tax bill don't start until after the midterms. And this idea of limiting interest rates for a year would go until just after the midterms. It's a temporary thing. It doesn't fix the structural issue. It'll delay the pain. But then the cap expires, rates snap back, balances remain, minimum payments go up. And if people actually paid less during the year that interest rates were lower, they end up in a worse situation. The other thing is that banks can respond to this. If you tell banks you can't charge more than 10% interest for the next year, they will tighten credit approval so fewer people will qualify, and it'll leave people without credit, which you could say, well, that's good, then they can't get into trouble. Yeah, but they might also not be able to afford things that they need. They will lower credit limits, which in the aggregate is arguably bad for the economy. They can raise fees, they can put annual fees, they can raise late fees, fees, balance transfer fees. There's a whole bunch of other ways that banks can figure out how to get their money. And they can also push people to even riskier products. Because if you all of a sudden have a lower limit on your credit card or you can't get approved and you need money, maybe you go and you get a payday loan, maybe you go and you get a subprime personal loan or something like that. And maybe most importantly, it's not going to reduce the principal debt unless people keep making larger payments. And that is maybe the biggest problem. So it's treating a symptom, it's not treating the cause. But Trump is like, no, it's great. It's going to be very awesome. Maria Bartiromo also asked Trump about this sort of like, state capitalism idea of the government taking stakes in private companies, including the government taking a 10% stake in Intel. And Trump says that this is actually free market. The government owning businesses is free market. What the hell does Trump not know what free market means?

[Maria Bartiromo]

Economy, Mr. President. Because when I first interviewed you, when you first came back, it was about a month after the inauguration for your second term. I asked you, Mr. President, what do you want the economy to look like in four years? And you were very clear. You said, I want the private sector to rule the day. And since then, in the last year, you've taken a 10% stake in Intel. You've taken a stake, taken MP Mountain Pass, you told the defense companies two weeks ago, don't pay any dividends, don't do buybacks until you produce the weapons that we need. So please explain to our audience how is that free market capitalism?

[Donald Trump]

Well, it's very free market.

[David Pakman]

It's. Maria, what. What could possibly be more free market than the government buying pieces of businesses and telling them whether they can do dividends or whether they can do buybacks? That's the total free market.

[Donald Trump]

Defense companies that were making a fortune, they were buying back stock with all their money, and then they come to us for money. If they want to, you know, we want to buy something or we want to have plants built. And they'd say, could you loan us the money? And they'd be doing tens of billions of dollars of stock buybacks. I'm not letting them do it. I want them to put money into, you know, we.

[David Pakman]

I'm not letting them do it. Wow. Free market.

[Donald Trump]

The best equipment in the world. The Patriots, Tomahawks, F35. All of our equipment's the best. Other countries want it and we want it. We need more. It takes too long to get it. I said, we're not going to do that anymore. So also, they're making tremendous amounts of money. I mean, 25, 50, $37 million a year. That's a lot of money. That's almost as much as you make. You work harder than them. No, but, you know, they were making. I asked one of the gentlemen, what are you making, Sir, I make $24 million. You have to come. It takes me five years to get your particular thing that they make right. So I put a cap on that for a period of time. For a period of time. I said, you have to build more plants. When we order, when we need Tomahawks, I want them within 24 hours.

[David Pakman]

Does this sound like deregulation, guys? Does this sound like the free market?

[Donald Trump]

When we need any kind of a patriot or whatever I want, I want to have it quickly. I don't want to be waiting three years for it. What kind of a thing is that? That and you make all this money and I'm prohibiting from doing stock buyback. And, you know, they haven't even complained about it.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Well, so. So free market capitalism, unless it's a national security issue, look, it's.

[David Pakman]

No, Maria, it's free market capitalism, except it never really has been. And also, Trump decides everything, and that is basically all of it. Free market capitalism. All right, a couple. Just one more terrifying clip and then the suck up wrap up, which I think you'll like. The topic of Naito came up, and we have long covered Trump's suspicion of international agreements, treaties, shared defense organizations, and Naito's. Specifically, Trump says, you know, I'm just not sure about Naito. If we needed Naito's help, would they help us? Why do we have to help everybody else? I don't know that Naito would really help us. And this tells you so much, so much of what you need to know, I think.

[Donald Trump]

But I've always said, will they be there if we ever needed them? And that's really the ultimate test. And I'm not sure of that. I know that we would would have been there or we would be there, but will they be there? And let's hope that that never happens. We've never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them. You know, they'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan or this or that, and they did. They stayed a little back, little off the front lines. But we, we've been very good to Europe and to many other countries. And, you know, now under my administration, that began because we had a very successful first term that began then, but it has to be a two way street.

[David Pakman]

Yeah, well, you know what it kind of is? This is so delusional. Trump's like, well, whenever they ever really helped us, would they come and help us? You know, you go back to the Afghanistan war and you see that there were 2400 lost in Afghanistan by the US military and something like 1200 lost by Naito allies. So they lost half of what we lost. And we were leading the thing and saying, this is a good idea. You look at the Iraq War, the US lost 4,500 troops in Iraq and there were several hundred coalition military deaths. Now you would go, oh, that's not really that much. It was our war that we insanely started on bad intelligence. And we let our decision led to Naito joining and Naito countries losing over 300 troops. For what? For what reason? And you can go and look at the entire list. Trump does not respect these deals and it's very clear that he has no interest in sticking to them. All right, finally, this little suck up clip will tell you a lot about what you need to know about these interviews.

[Maria Bartiromo]

You have limited time and we so appreciate you stopping by and talking with us.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you so much. Thank you very much.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Congratulations, Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

You've done a great job. Thank you.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Thank you. So have you.

[David Pakman]

Congratulations, Mr. President. About what? About what? So an easy interview that still goes wrong. We've got a great bonus show for you today. For the first time in 50 years, the United States had negative net migration. More people left than came in. If you believe birth rates are too low and we need more people, this isn't good. We'll talk about what happened to Governor Gavin Newsom when he tried to go into USA House at Davos. And finally, a jury has acquitted the former Uvalde School officer in the first criminal trial tied to the elementary school shooting there. All of those stories and more on today's bonus show. Sign up@join pacman.com.

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[David Pakman]

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