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Lines have been crossed and there’s no going back - The David Pakman Show | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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Lines have been crossed and there’s no going back

The David Pakman Show

Tue Feb 03 2026

Summary

The David Pakman Show
Episode: "Lines have been crossed and there’s no going back"
Date: February 3, 2026

Episode Overview

In this powerful episode, David Pakman addresses America’s descent into troubling authoritarian territory under a second Trump administration. He critically examines the consequences of holding former Trump supporters accountable without permanently alienating them, the escalation of repression against journalists and protesters (including the high-profile arrest of Don Lemon), and Trump’s explicit moves to undermine American elections. Pakman ties these developments to Trump’s visible cognitive decline, offering both firsthand analysis and reactions from international leaders who have interacted with Trump recently. Throughout, Pakman pushes his audience to grapple with the urgency and implications of these unprecedented political shifts.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Welcoming Back Former Trump Supporters: Shame or Accountability?

[01:54 – 10:20]

Pakman opens with the dilemma faced by progressives: how to treat people who admit they were wrong about Trump—especially public figures now expressing regret.
Example: Comedian Andrew Schultz, formerly Trump-sympathetic, now publicly denounces recent ICE crackdowns as his "breaking point," acknowledging the administration “justified even the most far-left critiques” ([04:27]).
Pakman cautions against both ignoring these admissions and shaming people too harshly, arguing, “Silence lowers the cost of future mistakes...Shame triggers defensiveness and rationalization.”
- Quote:
  “If our response only goes as far as ‘You stupid, irredeemable monster,’ you are going to trigger the exact psychology that keeps people stuck...People don’t leave a bad belief system because you humiliate them into leaving it. They leave when they are allowed to admit, ‘I made a mistake,’ without losing their sense of self...” ([07:49])
Proposes a balanced approach: acknowledge the mistake, insist it was predictable, but welcome those seeing the light to prevent history from repeating.
- “We did tell you so. But we’re glad for you to join us and choose better next time.” ([09:47])

2. America’s Authoritarian Turn: Crackdown on Press & Protests

[10:21 – 17:38]

Focuses on the arrest of journalist Don Lemon, a friend of the show, while covering a protest—interpreted as a targeted act by the Trump DOJ “to send a message.”
Pakman notes how “authoritarianism doesn’t arrive all at once...It’s selective enforcement and intimidation.”
Raises personal stakes: as someone currently overseas, Pakman worries whether he will be allowed to return safely to the U.S. given the new climate of fear and retaliation.

3. Trump’s Desperation & The Epstein Files Fallout

[19:03 – 27:20]

Donald Trump erupts on Truth Social after the release of Epstein files link him, among others, to the scandal—insisting he was never close to Epstein and denying all wrongdoing.
- Quote from Trump:
  “Not only wasn't I friendly with Jeffrey Epstein...but Epstein and a sleazebag lying author named Michael Wolff conspired in order to damage me and/or my presidency...” ([19:32])
Pakman highlights Trump’s shifting denials—first about flights, now about the island—and how Trump is unraveling under pressure, lashing out at critics and media (notably Grammy host Trevor Noah).

4. The Move to Nationalize U.S. Elections

[27:03 – 31:45]

Trump’s interview on the Dan Bongino podcast proposing, “The Republicans ought to nationalize the voting” ([27:20]), is flagged by Pakman as the “most dangerous thing Trump has ever suggested.”
Pakman explains the constitutional impossibility and dangers of centralizing election control, especially with someone as unstable and vindictive as Trump in power.

5. International Alarm: Trump’s Cognitive and Psychological Decline

[32:52 – 37:44]

Reports from Slovakian Prime Minister Robert Fico (a Trump ally) describe Trump’s "alarming" psychological state after a private Mar-a-Lago meeting.
- “Fico left a meeting...deeply disturbed...told EU leaders that Trump’s psychological state was alarming and said that the president is dangerous.” ([33:13])
Former U.S. officials (e.g., Stephanie Grisham, Ty Cobb) echo concerns about Trump’s cognition.
Pakman: “The closer people get to Trump, the harder it becomes to pretend that everything is fine.” ([37:44])

6. GOP Setbacks and Trump’s Denial

[37:44 – 45:05]

Democrats flip a deep-red Texas State Senate seat (District 9), a 31-point swing from 2024. Trump had vocally endorsed the Republican candidate, but pivots to disavow after her loss.
- Quote from Trump (when confronted):
  “I don’t know. I didn’t hear about it...I’m not involved in that. That’s a local Texas race.” ([40:23])
Pakman eviscerates this strategic denial, showing Trump’s prior endorsements and social media involvement.
- “When Trump backed candidates win, it is proof of Trump’s dominance. When they lose, he’s got nothing to do with it one way or the other.” ([41:15])

7. The Collapse of Trump’s ‘Strongman’ Image

[45:05 – 53:19]

Multiple segments detail Trump’s deteriorating performance in office:
- The 'Kennedy Center' fiasco—rambling about renovations, branding, and legacy ([46:16])
- Pakman analyzes Trump referring to “Jeffrey’s Island,” suggesting unintentional familiarity with Epstein ([50:06])
- Viral video moment: Trump may have soiled himself during a presser ("code brown"), used by Pakman to illustrate the disconnect between Trump’s ‘healthiest president ever’ claims and visible fragility.
Pakman: “He is not the strong man...He is struggling and surrounded by people who seem unable or unwilling to say no.” ([53:19])

8. Personal & Political Repercussions: Is It Safe to Come Home?

[53:19 – 59:50]

Pakman, a naturalized U.S. citizen, openly discusses real fear about reentering the country. He outlines how authoritarian crackdowns often target press and immigrants: “Citizens should not wonder if lawful protest will follow them across borders. Immigrants should not feel that their status makes them vulnerable. But that’s where we are right now.” ([58:09])
He notes he’s arranged with other progressive creators to amplify any issues at the border—an indication of just how much the ‘old rules’ are gone.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Andrew Schultz on disillusionment with Trump:
“Their reaction to this has just justified all of the far left criticisms in one moment.”
([04:36])
Pakman on failed accountability:
“Shame, when it becomes identity-based, makes people defensive, and defensive people rationalize and rationalization puts them back in their same beliefs.”
([07:49])
On Trump’s proposal to nationalize elections:
“This is the most authoritarian move that is available to Donald Trump...the clearest signal yet of where this is going.”
([27:20])
Reporting international leaders’ private concerns:
“Fico left a meeting...deeply disturbed...said that the president is dangerous.”
([33:13])
Pakman’s personal anxiety about returning to the U.S.:
“Today, after the Trump DOJ arrested my friend Don Lemon, and after someone’s global entry was taken away because they were spotted at an ICE protest, this feels kind of like a rational thing to worry about.”
([53:19])

Important Timestamps

01:54 – Main episode begins: "How to treat people who admit they were wrong about Trump"
04:27 – Andrew Schultz’s on-air confession/breaking point
05:45 – Pakman explains his philosophy on accountability and welcoming former Trump supporters
10:21 – Authoritarian crackdowns: Don Lemon arrested
19:03 – Epstein files fallout & Trump’s responses
27:03 – Trump advocates national takeover of U.S. elections
32:52 – Slovakian PM and others sound alarm on Trump’s mental state
37:44 – Texas special election, Trump’s denial examined
45:05 – Trump’s decline illustrated: physical, verbal, and political (“code brown” and the Kennedy Center)
53:19 – Pakman voices fear about his own return to the U.S., closing out the political warning

Summary Flow & Tone

David Pakman sustains a sobering but urgent tone throughout the episode, combining direct, fact-based assessment with personal stakes and occasional sardonic humor. He balances welcoming moments of self-reflection from former Trump supporters with calls for clear-eyed accountability, and interweaves this with increasingly dire warnings about creeping authoritarianism. Throughout, Pakman’s analysis is candid—sometimes blunt, sometimes empathetic, but always anchored by a sense of civic responsibility amidst accelerating political crisis.

For listeners who missed this episode, Pakman’s commentary captures a nation at the precipice: old norms crumbling as a desperate, unstable president and his enablers push the republic into uncharted, dangerous territory.

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Transcript

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David Pakman (1:54)

Today we're going to be dealing with something uncomfortable but also unavoidable. What do you do when people find finally admit they were wrong about the person they voted for? Do you welcome them back quietly or do you hold them accountable without pushing them straight back into maga? That's the question. We're going to talk about why both silence and shaming fail and what to do if the goal is to prevent this from ever happening again. We then have the Trump administration Crossing yet another line, the arrest of Don Lemon, journalists being targeted, protesters being targeted. This is the authoritarian turn that we have been warning about. And it is happening way faster than many people expected, although we warned about it. And then the Epstein dump Trump spiral, spiraling and lashing out wildly. While suggesting that the elections of this country must be nationalized. We're also looking at a report from a foreign leader who says he was extraordinarily disturbed by what happened when he met with Trump. And the deep red Texas district flips and MAGA pretends Trump had nothing to do with it. Plus, will I be welcomed back into the United States when I return, or am I going to have a problem? We will talk about that as well. We start today with the topic of I told you so. To shame or not to shame. That is the question. How should we treat truly horrible people, but also people who maybe were just confused and they're finally figuring out the truth. You probably kind of know what I'm alluding to, but I'm going to explain it. We are seeing more and more voters and more influencers, including people from the manosphere say some version of, okay, Trump did turn out worse than I expected. And immediately there's a split reaction from those of us who expected this all along. One side says, look, growth, introspection, leave them alone, welcome them back, or whatever. And others say, too late, you screwed up. Screw you forever. And I believe that both of these reactions really kind of miss the point. So let's look up, let's look at an example of comedian Andrew Schultz, who has done, at least on some issues, a 180 on Trumpism. Let's hear what he had to say. And then I'm going to give you my take on this.

David Pakman (5:47)

Let me ask you a question. So here's my argument. Saying nothing about how predictable it was that they were going to be wrong, I don't think is enough. But on the other hand, shaming these people so hard that they go, man, the left is just toxic, and they run right back to Trump is also counterproductive. I think we need to think about our goal when we engage with these folks and with people who do a 180. If your goal is your own emotional satisfaction, all right, shame them, say, screw you, whatever. My goal is never again repeating this disaster that has now been more than a decade of Trumpism. So take Joe Rogan, for example, not because Rogan's, like, unique or anything, but because he's very influential. If someone like Rogan now starts saying, this ICE stuff isn't what we signed up for, they're just going after workers and, you know, some elements of Trumpism aren't working out. The response can't just be cool, Joe. Yeah, good. But it also can't be this sort of scorched earth hostility that we are seeing from some, because neither approach is psychologically going to achieve what we need to achieve. Let's start with the mistake people make, kind of in the name of being welcoming when someone says, I guess Trump isn't really what I thought, and we respond with nothing. We don't respond with the clarity that many of us had all along and that some of them failed to see and. And no accountability and none of it. We allow a dangerous lie to stand, which is that no one could have predicted what's going on with Trump, but it was completely predictable. How do I know? Because many of us were predicting it. The authoritarianism and the corruption and the cruelty and the chaos and the fact that the deportation policy was never going to be just serious, violent criminals. We predicted all of it in advance. And so if we pretend otherwise, no worry, man. Nobody could have guessed that this is the way it would turn out. We lower the cost of future mistakes, and that's a bad, bad idea. And it creates this perverse incentive where people can support reckless stuff, watch it blow up, and then reenter polite discourse with zero reckoning. There's no learning there. So I don't think that that's a good approach. But here's where the other side really screws up. If your response to Rogan or Schultz or whoever going, man, this, this is not good. This isn't what, what I signed up for. If our response only goes as far as you, you stupid, irredeemable monster, you are going to trigger the exact psychology that keeps people stuck. Shame, when it becomes identity based, makes people defensive and defensive people rationalize and rationalization puts them back in their same beliefs. We see this in cults. We see it in people who start to think about leaving a cult. And it is basic cult exit psychology. People don't leave a bad belief system because you humiliate them into leaving it. They leave when they are allowed to admit, I made a mistake without losing their sense of self, but only if that's paired with some clarity about what went wrong. So I think the balance really matters here. So the right response to someone like a Schultz or a Rogan is, listen, you weren't just unlucky, you were wrong and it was predictable. A lot of people warned you and you dismissed them. But it's great that you are having this moment of self reflection and you don't have to make this mistake again. And we want you to come join us and let's not make the same mistake again. So it's accountability. It was predictable. We were telling you. But there's an off ramp. There's a reasonable off ramp. And the accountability should be something concrete. It should be okay. Voting for Trump was a mistake. Going on your national podcast and saying Trump's the guy, that was a mistake. And then you can just say, I'm not going to make this mistake again. I've seen the light. I understand the mistake that I made. And we say, that's awesome. It's great that you're able to do that. You don't have to be pure ideologically. You don't have to love the Democratic Party. It doesn't mean that you bow down and, you know, say a seance for AOC or Gavin Newsom or whoever, that doesn't require any of that stuff. It's simply, I made a mistake. I voted the wrong way. Kamala Harris wouldn't have done any of this stuff. I might have had disagreements with her, but she wouldn't have done any of this stuff. That's it. And then that breaks the mental loophole. It forces people to connect cause and effect. There is. There was a cause to what you now say is bad, and you were part of that cause. And crucially, the door is open to you not making that mistake again. We don't hate you forever. We did tell you so. But we're glad for you to join us and choose better next time. And so we don't need to fall into this black white. Do we shame them or don't we? We can do much better than that. Let's invite back in. But let's not pretend it was a completely unpredictable shock that this is what happened. Because people like me and many others not patting myself on the back, millions of us knew that this is exactly where it was going to end up. The Trump administration has done the unimaginable. Except many of us did imagine it. For years, so many of us have been warning a second Trump term would be way more dangerous than the first. It'll be messy, but it be worse than that. It'll be globally embarrassing, but it'll be worse than that. It's going to be dangerous in a concrete and specific way. The Justice Department will be used as a weapon. Journalists are going to be intimidated and maybe worse. Critics will be punished. And power will be used merely to stoke Trump's ego and to push for revenge. And it's happening. The Trump DOJ arrest of Don Lamon. Our friend Don Lemon, who's been a big supporter of this show, and I have strongly supported his path into independent media. Well known Don Lemon arrested with coverage of a protest. Federal agents showing up despite his lawyer trying to coordinate a different approach. None of this is normal. It's not a misunderstanding. This is a message from the Trump administration. And it's a message to people like me. Not me specifically, but to all of us in the independent media space. A lot of the defenders of Trump said this isn't going to happen. Our concerns are exaggerated about authoritarianism. Institutions will hold, and it's all bluster from Donald Trump. And they were wrong. This is what authoritarianism looks like in real life. It doesn't arrive all at once. It doesn't require tanks in the street. It's selective enforcement and intimidation and making examples out of people and teaching others to say, I'm going to stay quiet because of what happened. And to Don Lemon. And there is a factor here that makes this moment even more dangerous. Authoritarian leaders become more dangerous when they start to decline cognitively. History has shown us this. When leaders feel weaker they get more paranoid when they sense that they're losing control. They lash out in even more extreme ways. Everybody becomes an enemy to them, and criticisms are existential to them, and challenges are direct threats to their very survival. Trump is not the same person that he was years ago. The rambling, the repetition, the confusion, the fixation on grievances and punishing others and the talk of revenge, this, combined with cognitive decline, is a very volatile combination. When someone like that is in the White House controlling the Justice Department, federal law enforcement, there's no restraint. Restraint has faded. And so the Don Lemon arrest, which is disgusting and terrifying and toxic, is part of a bigger pattern, which is the crackdowns on protests. Someone reportedly lost their global entry because they were at an ICE protest. By the way, I'm out of the country right now. Will I be able to get back in without a problem? I'm going to address that a little bit later. Trump now is saying elections should be nationalized and states shouldn't be running elections. That is terrifying authoritarianism. If this isn't chilling, whether you are a person of the left, an independent in the middle, a right winger, a social conservative, a constitutional conservative, whatever your politics are, if you care about the rule of law in the Constitution, this should terrify you. And the repression expands like a balloon that you blow up. Starts with the language of law and order, and then it's about security. And, well, we've got to protect the country from internal enemies. And the definition of wrongdoing grows and grows and grows. And if you're doing journalism, well, that's very suspicious. Protesting, that's very dangerous. You're against the president. That's disloyalty, and maybe you should be punished for that. So people warned, and I was one of them, that if Trump returned to power, the guardrails would be weak, if they even existed, and that Trump would surround himself with true loyalists. Unlike the first term, where it was like pseudo loyalists and critics would be targeted and the Justice Department would be used to go after Trump's enemies. Elections would become optional if they were inconvenient. Every single one of those warnings is being confirmed right now. The danger isn't limited to what is in the rearview mirror. The danger is what comes next, what's going to happen to protesters? Who's next, after Don Lemon? What happens with the 2026 election? The thing about authoritarian systems is they don't stop on their own. They don't go well. I think this is. We're good. We don't need to do anymore and when the person at the center feels threatened, diminished and desperate, which Trump does, they accelerate the repression and they say I need to do more. And an election becomes an obstacle that we need to get rid of. And the state will turn inward and target people domestically the way that they are already starting to do. So if you are of the mindset that this has gone as far as it's going to go, you're wrong. You're wrong. As I've said before, when people successfully do what they want to do and then they say, wow, we got away with it. Wow, we got away with it, they rarely say, let's hang it up. I'm happy to do nothing else. So at this point, if you are still denying the seriousness of this, I don't even know if naive is the right word. You are almost. I'm not even going to say almost. You are enabling it and helping more of it to happen. If you still say there isn't concern here. So later on we'll see the spiral over the Epstein dumps. We are going to see what is happening with the 2026 election and I will discuss whether I expect to lose my global entry or worse when I head back to the United States. All of that and more is coming up. And remember that if they take us down on any of our platforms, the only one where we own the data and I'll be able to remain in touch with you is Substack. So if you are as terrified about what's going on as I am and you're worried will the YouTube channels get shut down, what's going to happen with TikTok and TikTok then the place to be is on my newsletter, substack.davidpakman.com if

David Pakman (19:03)

for as long as the Trump administration lets this show continue existing. That would have felt like more of a joke a few years ago and now it feels very serious. For as long as this show continues, it will be an audience supported program as it has been for a long time. The primary, most direct and most efficient way of supporting the work that I do is by becoming a member on my website. Join pacman.com and of course subscribing and following on any platform is a great thing. We are currently pushing towards 8 million total followers across all platforms and everything counts. If you follow on YouTube, start following on Spotify, Apple, podcasts, threads, Instagram. We are getting dangerously close to 8 million total followers, a number that would have been just a fantasy really, just as recently as a few years ago. The Epstein bombshells have Donald Trump spiraling and one of the things that people do when they are desperate to distract is say I don't know anything about it and also I'm innocent and also anyone accusing me as a terrible person. And how about these other two or three things? Why don't you talk about those? Donald Trump taking to truth social after the dump of Epstein files showing that Trump and many others, quite frankly a lot of people wrapped up in this, Peter Attia and I mean just a long list of people. Trump saying, quote, not only wasn't I friendly with Jeffrey Epstein, but based on information that has just been released by the Department of Justice, Epstein and a sleazebag lying author named Michael Wolff conspired in order to damage me and or my presidency. So much for the radical left's hope against hope, some of whom I'll be suing. Additionally, unlike so many people that like to talk trash, I never went to the infested Epstein island. But almost all of these crooked Democrats and their donors did. Of course this is like if somebody asks you, hey, did you slap this person? And you go all of the claims that I kicked them are untrue. Right? But I didn't ask about kicking, I asked about slapping. And I want to point your attention to the fact that Donald Trump numerous times said he never flew on Jeffrey Epstein's plane. We now know that Donald Trump flew on Jeffrey Epstein's plane at least eight times. So now every time that Epstein comes up, Trump goes, I never went to the island. But what about those eight flights, sir? Now the truth is, in a sense, Trump is probably right that they weren't friends. What do I mean by that? Trump doesn't really have what you and I might consider true friendships. But if we put that aside for a second, Epstein appears to have been as much of a friend of Trump's as anyone is. Now you could go Trump doesn't really have friends. Everything's transactional and it's weird and things totally with you on that. But whatever Trump's relationships with people are that others might characterize as friendship or not or Trump might, Epstein absolutely fits the bill and I'm going to have proof of that a little bit later when Trump actually goes Jeffrey, Jeffrey. That's how you you refer to him as Jeffrey. Now, a guy you supposedly barely knew. Trump also wildly triggered by the Grammy Awards posting quote the Grammy Awards are the worst. Virtually unwatchable. CBS is lucky not to have had this garbage litter their airwaves any longer. The host, Trevor Noah, whoever he may be, is almost as bad as Jimmy Kimmel at the low ratings Academy Awards. Noah said incorrectly about me that Donald Trump and Bill Clinton spent time on Epstein Island. Wrong. I can't speak for Bill, but I have never been to Epstein island nor anywhere close and until tonight's false and defamatory statement have never been accused of being there, not even by the fake news media. Noah, a total loser. Better get his facts straight and get him straight fast. It looks like I'll be sending my lawyers to sue this poor pathetic, talentless dope of an MC and suing him for plenty of money. Ask little George Slopadopoulos and others how that all worked out. Also ask cbs. Get ready Noah. I'm going to have some fun with you. Trump hates it when he is made fun of. If you go back One of the most telling videos about everything that became of Trump's political career is if you go back to one of the White House correspondents dinners before Donald Trump was even involved as a presidential candidate. When Barack Obama, former President Barack Obama, now former president, then President Barack Obama kind of made fun of Donald Trump and made fun of Donald Trump with regard to Obama and the birth certificate and made fun of Trump because of the low brow nature of the Apprentice and whatever else. And Trump sits there motionless and he, you can tell, has no self deprecating sense of humor about himself. It infuriates him. He wants to be liked, but above all else, he doesn't want to be the butt of the joke. And again, at the Grammys, Trump was the butt of the joke and it makes him absolutely furious. And he now finds himself in the situation of having to say, I'm going to sue this one and I'm going to sue that one, because that's all Donald Trump knows how to do. Finally, Trump with the distractathon in the midst of collapsing approval disasters abroad, disasters domestically, prices that are going up when he said they would go down the Epstein dump. Trump allegedly pooping his pants the other day. I'm so sorry that it's so low brow, but I'm just giving you the full gamut of the beliefs about what's happening with Trump. Trump posts, quote, the highest poll numbers I have ever received. Obviously, people like a strong and powerful country with the best economy ever. We have a very simple way to debunk the notion that this is the best economy anyone's ever seen. And it is Trump's demand that the Fed dump interest rates right away, where you would only see that kind of movement when the economic situation is terrible. So we all know that this is not the best economy in the world. And I think Trump knows it as well. He's trying to distract. He is desperate. And the one thing he believes is going to save the Republican Party and therefore his presidency, is interfering in the November midterm election. And he has a new idea as to how to do exactly that. I submit to you today that Donald Trump made his most dark move, his most dangerous, serious suggestion just now on the Dan Bongino podcast. You might remember that Dan Bongino was the deputy director of the FBI and he was almost in tears because he couldn't see his wife. And it was just not a good fit for him. So he quit. And with his tail between his legs, he went back to hosting his podcast. And he hosted Donald Trump yesterday. And Trump argued that elections should be nationalized, not secured, not reformed. Take them over. And says the Republican Party should take over the voting and nationalize the entire thing. This is the clearest signal yet of where this is going. Here's the clip.

David Pakman (27:20)

Donald Trump is not talking about canceling elections right now, because he probably has been told he can't do it, the Constitution doesn't allow it. I've explained this before. Elections are run by states. There are essentially 50 different elections on midterm Election Day. Each state administers its own voting systems, its own rules, its own counting, its own schedule, etc. There isn't a federal switch. There's no kill switch federally for elections. If you can't cancel the election, well, you try to take control of it. Trump knows the limits. This is why it matters. He is not saying no election. He's saying federal takeover. He's saying the states are agents, Washington should step in and run the process. And this is the most authoritarian move that is available to Donald Trump as far as he is concerned, There's a reason he's pushing for it. This comes less than a week after the FBI raided in Atlanta Elections office, seized ballots and records from the 2020 election. Now, Trump is tying two things together. He says interesting things are going to come out of Georgia. The implication is we're finally going to get that proof I promised that Joe Biden stole the 2020 election news for you. We're not going to get that because Joe Biden won the 2020 election. That's number one. Number two, Trump continues to insist that there has been illegal voting. And if people are voting illegally in states and states aren't able to get it under control, two assertions Trump makes without evidence, then it would be justified in Trump world for the feds to take over the elections. Now, Trump has spent a very long time laying the groundwork here, and his Justice Department has sued nearly two dozen states to try to get access to voter rolls. He's promised that there will be prosecutions over what happened in 2020, which, by the way, nothing happened in 2020 other than Trump lost. Courts have blocked a lot of these efforts, but it is still extraordinarily dangerous that Trump is going in this direction. So it's not about election security. Dozens of court challenges, failed audits, failed to prove there was any wrongdoing. Recounts failed to change anything. Republicans in Georgia confirmed Trump lost. Biden won. This is about control. If you nationalize elections, you strip states of authority that they have held since the founding of this country. It would mean the federal government comes in and decides how voting works, how ballots are counted, who gets access, all of it. And because Trump is not stable, he's not stable ideologically, physically or cognitively. He's visibly declining his speeches, his repetition, the fixations, the health problems, the talking about Revenge, all of it. He treats the opposition as illegitimate by definition. They don't have to do anything to be illegitimate. They're illegitimate by virtue of being his opposition. This is exactly the kind of person who can't be trusted with centralized power. You want decentralized power. You want 50 states and 50 elections when you have someone like Trump. And this explains why Trump is doing it this way. He can't cancel the elections, even though he has sort of played coy with it and toyed with it. He can't suspend the constitution. There are 50 states in the way. So he's attacking the structure, undermining the authority of states, and saying that he is going to take it over. And if he did, he would put loyalists in charge and it would be the furthest thing from integrity that I can imagine. The goal has always been the same here. Once elections are nationalized, every vote is conditional, every outcome is suspect, and if he loses anywhere, well, we've got to intervene. Clearly, it must have been the wrong thing when he says, I believe I won California. That is not. It is a delusion. But it is not merely a delusion. It's, if I should have won all of these states, I've got to take it over. So I am begging at this point those who continue to say, oh, it's Trump being Trump, it's bluster, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, he's doing all of it. He's trying to do all of it. It's not politics as usual. It is not tough talk. This is the most dangerous thing Trump has ever suggested.

David Pakman (32:52)

There's a recurring pattern that is getting more and more difficult to ignore, which is that when people actually spend time with Donald Trump behind closed doors, off camera, without the sort of MAGA performance theatrics around him, they come away believing something is very wrong. And the latest example comes comes from Robert Fico. He's the prime minister of Slovakia, and notably, he's a Trump ally. Now, according to multiple diplomats, Fico left a meeting on January 17th with Trump at Mar A Lago deeply disturbed. He later told fellow European Union leaders that Trump's psychological state was alarming and said that the president is dangerous. This was not like a cocktail hour. Offhanded comment. It reportedly came up during an emergency EU meeting that was convened after Trump's renewed threats to Greenland. Remember, this was going on right around mid January. This was, of course, an idea so detached from reality that it sent shockwaves through the capitals of Europe. And the key point is that Fico is not a guy who's hostile to Trump and he's going around trying to spread negativity or rumor about Donald Trump. He's an ally of Trump. He has praised Trump publicly. He's defended Trump on Ukraine. He's told conservative audiences that Trump was doing Europe a great service. So this is a guy who wants Trump to be competent, and yet after spending real time with him, he walks away concerned enough to warn other leaders. Now, the White House, of course, denies it. Fico later denied it as well, where he said, quote, I strongly reject the lies of the hateful pro Brussels liberal. Porter Portal, Politico. It is a sad look at the liberal and progressive political and media world. The abuse of criminal law to destroy opponents, the rejection of different opinions, boundless media lies, and attempt to assassinate political leaders in Slovakia. And the US Went on to give more denials of it. Who do you believe? All the people in the room who corroborated it and said, yeah, Fico came in and said this, or do you believe Fico, who stands to lose a lot by these comments being made? Public denials, of course, don't erase the pattern. We have so many people who meet with Trump and then they go, something's wrong with this guy, or people who used to be around Trump and can observe the decline in public. We just had this example of Trump's former press secretary, Stephanie Grisham, who worked with him directly, and she said he needs a mental evaluation after watching his rambling and incoherent Public appearances. She says this is bizarre behavior. People shouldn't dismiss what they're seeing. Trump's former lawyer, Ty Cobb, went further and said Trump's cognitive decline is palpable. It's not a hypothetical, it's palpable now. And the assessments really do line up with what the public sees in real time. Trump recently was talking about how he doesn't have Alzheimer's and he forgot the word Alzheimer's, and he confused Greenland and Iceland many times. And he drifts off mid sentence, up, up and away to who knows when. And each of these incidents gets waved away. This one he was tired, and then that one he misspoke. And this one was out of context. But the tell is that there's a new excuse every day or every week. You are not explaining a one off, you're explaining decline. What I believe makes this moment different is that the concern is no longer limited to critics, pundits, or comedians. It's coming from people who are sitting across the table from Trump in real, substantive meetings, people who have worked for him or who defend him or who are in the room making what could, could be important decisions. And after prolonged exposure, they go, I'm uneasy by Trump's mental. About Trump's mental state. The way that it's supposed to work, by the way, is that we don't necessarily judge presidents only by their rallies. We go, okay, you've got the rally Trump. But then there's like a behind the scenes Trump, how he's performing in rooms where decisions are made, where attention span and memory and impulse control and coherence matter. And he's performing terribly in those situations. The foreign leaders care about stability. Trump isn't stable. They encounter him up close. They don't see strength. They see confusion and volatility and someone who's not anchored to reality. This story really matters. And it's not because any one report is the definitive report. If Trump was generally stable and with it. And there's one report, oh, Fico privately said this. He denies it, but others say, no, he said it.

David Pakman (41:15)

Turns out not only did Trump hear about it, not only did Trump know about it, he posted about it and he tried to throw his weight around proverbially, to impact the results, Trump put up the following truth Social post right before the election. Quote, Today is the day to all voters in Texas's 9th State Senate district get out and vote for a phenomenal candidate, Lee Wambsgans. She is a highly successful entrepreneur and an incredible supporter of our movement to make America great again. My very good friend Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick needs a strong conservative Republican in SD9 to keep Texas red. The radical left Democrats are spending a fortune to beat a true MAGA warrior, Lee Wamsgon. You can win this election for Lee who has my complete and total endorsement Polls close at 7. Get out and vote for Lee Wambs. Guns. Find your closest polling location. Lee will never let Texas or the USA down. When Trump backed candidates win, it is proof of Trump's dominance when they lose. He's got nothing to do with it one way or the other. Understand that this is not just a local race that reversed from the Trump win of 2024, which would be enough that that would already be like wow, 31 point reversal. That's a lot. This is a race that Trump endorsed in and it ended up flipping 31 points from where it was. Trump is distancing himself because this is a radioactive result. Radioactive. A deep red district flipping by well into the double digits says what about 2026? It says they may get destroyed. Dems have now flipped more than 20 state legislative seats over the last year in regular and special elections. In Georgia, they won a district Trump won by 12. So the common thread is places Trump one comfortably. Democrats are winning races. Trump is endorsing a Republican in the Republican is losing. So this is a very important race now as I've said before, ignore it at their own peril. These down ballot elections are reality. Trump can post all he wants. Voters may still tolerate Trump at the top of the ticket. His brand though is connected to these local races and a lot of voters are saying no at the local level. Trump knows it. He's pretending he was never there. Had nothing to do with it. It if this becomes reality for 2026, Trump is going to be sent packing with regard to getting anything done in the final two years of his presidency. He will still be the president as long as he can remain alive. He's not going to be removed. He's not going to be impeached. I just don't have the numbers. But he will get nothing done. And he knows this is a nightmare scenario. It would not be a dramatic collapse. It will have been an erosion that started with the first special elections of 2025 and has continued on and on and on. And Trump's fingerprints are all over it. So his new thing is, has nothing to do with me. But sir, didn't you just endorse in that race? Doesn't want to talk about it.

Donald Trump (46:16)

Probably around $200 million. And you know, it's funny, in real estate and building, I've done so much of it. I've done so well with it. You want to sit with something for a little while before you decide on what you want to do. And you know, we sat with it, we ran it. It's in very bad shape. It's Run down. It's dilapidated, sort of dangerous. Dangerous things fall out, fall out of ceilings. You've seen it. And we had some big events there. We had a lot of great events there over the last year. But you can't do any work because people are coming in and out. And you have the workman. We have a marble man over there the other day. He said, you know, every time I put down a piece of marble, people are stepping on the marble. They don't even have time to dry. And you can't do the same quality job if you close in it. And, you know, we're fully financed. And so we're going to close it and we're going to make it unbelievable, far better than it ever was, and we'll be able to do it properly. I was thinking maybe there's a way of doing it simultaneously, but there really isn't. And we're going to have something that when it opens, it's going to be brand new, beautiful. I'm not ripping it down. I'll be using the steel. So we're using the structure. We're using some of the marble, and some of the marble comes down. But when it's open, it'll be brand new and beautiful. It'll be at the highest level. We can do a much better job, probably in a way, a faster job in terms, you know, because when you do it piecemeal, for instance, they have a play tonight, and you can't do anything. You have to pull out everything, and you can't have stanchions all over the place. So people are walking in to see a play. So we'll be closing it sometime around July 4th. It's like, we'll close it on July 4th in order to do something great for America. And then we're going to build it. We have great contractors. We're going to build it and we'll do it right. We're using the highest grade marbles, the highest grade everything. It'll be brand new.

David Pakman (53:19)

So listen. This is not. This. This is not supposed to be funny. The story here is the contrast to the supposed healthiest president ever. Okay? Put all of it together. Physically unstable verbal slips. Diminished vocabulary confusion. Rambling answers. Obsession with random details. Fixated on grievances. Moments when the room reacts. Acts where you can tell something is wrong. It's not funny and edgy. It's the sitting President of the United States visibly deteriorating in front of the cameras. Now, I don't know if it was a code brown, okay, but this is the same guy who spent years mocking others for their health. This is the guy whose allies insisted and he insisted he's the healthiest president anyone has ever seen. The same movement that treated basic questions about age and fitness as a conspiracy theory. And reality is intruding. And that's why this really does matter. This isn't just about decline. He's tearing down institutions he's threatening to take over elections. He's weaponizing the Justice Department. He went after my friend Don Lemon. He's lashing out and demanding loyalty or facing punish or demanding loyalty, unless you want to face punishment. Punishment. It's a very dangerous combination. And history has shown us that leaders who lose physical and cognitive control become more erratic, paranoid, and aggressive. They double down, they lash out, and they don't delegate. They don't listen. They just act on impulse. And so I don't know that at this point, we can separate Trump's personal problem. Some people, anyway. We can't separate what is arguably a personal problem from a political one anymore. And he, at minimum, couldn't stay composed during the press conference. And the press was rushed out of the room, and people acted like they were smelling sulfur. Okay? It's. It's the myth of Trump collapsing in real time. He is not the strong man who is dominant and in control. He is struggling and surrounded by people who seem unable or unwilling to say no to him. I got through the segment. You be the judge about what happened. Will I be able to get back into the United States when I return in just about a week and a half? This is the question many of you have been asking me. If you've been following my Instagram, you know that I'm currently overseas and I am wondering myself, so here's what's going on. I'm currently in Europe, and I am seriously worried. As a naturalized American citizen born in Argentina, who has lived in the United States since I was five, worked there, pay taxes there, have natural born children born in the United States, I now have people warning me, david, you got to be careful when you come back. Now, even 18 months ago, I would have dismissed this as hyperbolic. Today, after the Trump DOJ arrested my friend Don Lemon, and after someone's global entry was taken away because they were spotted at an ICE protest, this feels kind of like a rational thing to worry about. Don Lemon was arrested, not for he was arrested by federal agents, mind you, for nothing other than doing journalism. And this is really changing the calculation for all of us. And simultaneously, we had the global entry revocation. When dissent, that becomes not only reason for suspicion, but reason for interactions with the state, including at border crossings. You know that we are in trouble. Now, as a naturalized citizen, I am legally equal under the Constitution. But history shows us that equality can be fragile when power and fear take over. I've already told five or six of the biggest progressive content creators if I have a problem when I get back. I'm going to let you know right away. And they agreed. Oh, don't worry, David. We are going to get the word out now. Hopefully nothing happens. But the fact that I am even planning for this is extraordinarily alarming. Authoritarian systems seek pressure points. Immigration status, and whether you went to a protest and whether you criticize the Dear Leader seem to be pressure points right now.