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- [00:00]
David Pakman
Donald Trump's overseas trip has turned into a political nightmare. We are going to look at multiple viral moments, including referring to President Zelensky as Putin, claiming Japan launched 111 missiles and appearing to be guided around by Turkish President Erdogan. This stuff is going giga viral. And this is the stuff that Republicans said, oh, if Biden looks the wrong direction, we've got a problem. We are going to dove into it. I will be speaking with the authors of the new book Regime Change, Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. I think it'll be a very interesting conversation. Plus, the biggest foreign policy victory of this administration, ending the war in Iran 40 times has imploded again as the cease fire is over. The US Is striking and Trump says forget about it. And finally, Fox News suddenly discovers that politicians accused of serious misconduct shouldn't hold office. But if they are saying that about Graham Platner now, where were they when it was Trump with dozens of allegations against him? What a program. Today, Fox News hosts and guests accidentally described describe Donald Trump when saying that Graham Platner has no business being an elected official in the United States. Let's discuss. You know, one of the kind of strangest things about American politics is watching people suddenly discover principles that they spent a decade abandoning. Take a look at this discussion on Fox News between Kellyanne Conway, longtime Trump adviser and supporter, and Republican Senator John Kennedy. Kennedy goes, this guy is a predator. You don't want him anywhere near power. Of course he's talking about Platner, but why doesn't that apply to Trump? And Kellyanne Conway says, look, he's accused of abuse and assault and of disparaging our military. This is not ok. And of course she's talking about Platner, but it could also describe Donald Trump. Let's take a look at this and see if we can parse it.
- [02:16]
Donald Trump
Knows that this, this guy is just, he's a predator. He is a predator and you don't want him anywhere near power.
- [02:27]
Kellyanne Conway
These allegations of abuse and assault and disparaging our military, calling them fat, you deserve to die, said to one of our troops. And the Nazi tattoo just goes on and on. And it never seemed enough for your colleagues across the aisle in the Democratic Party to chuck this guy into the latest rounds of allegations, thereby showing Senator Kennedy that for the Democrats, they don't believe all women. They chuck that to the side when you're talking about a swing state.
- [02:55]
David Pakman
And listen, they don't believe all women. I know that there are some people out there gallivanting on X and TikTok and different platforms going, I don't believe the Platner accusers, even though I believe all the Trump accusers because of some narrow, weird thing. Listen, we believe women, ok? When these two, Conway and Kennedy go, you don't want him anywhere near power. They should chuck this guy. If we're talking about the allegations against Graham Platner, I agree with the principle. I don't think this guy is a good candidate. I think he's got to drop out. I think he will drop out. I don't think he should be anywhere near political power. He has decades of documented poor judgment and disgusting statements and things that he said, and now very serious allegations. I thought he wasn't being honest with me during our interview. That's all true. That's easy to say. Public officials accused of serious abuse deserve serious scrutiny. No argument. But where this becomes impossible to listen to with a straight face is that the people saying this, Senator John Kennedy and Kellyanne Conway, they have spent a decade defending Donald Trump, not despite the allegations against him. After the allegations against him, they go, this is the guy that we want. He's phenomenal. Trump, accused of sexual misconduct by dozens of women over many years, found civilly liable by a jury for sexually abusing Jean Carroll. And a judge later said New York law uses the label sexual abuse rather than rape, but the actions certainly describe rapid rape. Republicans knew all of it, and they nominated him again, and they nominated him again, and tens of millions of Americans voted for him three times, and they defend him and defend him. So I have a little bit of trouble taking lectures from these people about standards. Take a look at this next clip. Here's Congressman Brandon Gill speaking to Kellyanne Conway, going, they didn't seem to have a problem with allegations from multiple women. You guys had no problem with allegations from multiple women about Trump. The difference is, I think Platner is going to be forced out. Trump was made president twice, Congress, and
- [05:14]
Kellyanne Conway
you can take this in so many different directions. I am completely disgusted with the Democratic Party and this candidate, their nominee, but I am worried for the country if we're, if they're going to continue to stand by their men until they can't any longer. We may end up with bad candidates, bad office holders, until it's too late. They'll already be there, kind of like
- [05:35]
David Pakman
with Trump right now.
- [05:37]
Senator John Kennedy
Well, the key is what you just said there, which is they're standing by him until they don't believe that they can any longer. In other words, Democrats, to your point, had no problem with The Nazi tattoo that was on his. On his chest, by the way, I don't have any friends who have Nazi tattoos on their chest. And I don't think that most Americans either. You have to go looking for somebody who. Who has a Nazi tattoo on their chest. They didn't have a problem with that. They didn't have any problem with multiple credible allegations of abuse from multiple women until very recently. Until we find out that the latest woman.
- [06:09]
David Pakman
You guys don't even have a problem with multiple credit. Credible allegations of abuse against Trump.
- [06:14]
Senator John Kennedy
Now, who's made credible allegations is left wing politically. They had no problem before. They have had no problem with that. Really unsavory, just frankly disgusting things that he's written on all kinds of different social media platforms. The messaging apps that he had been on that, that predators tend to frequent. They had no problem with any of that. What they have a problem with now is they've gotten to the point where they don't believe that he's a viable candidate anymore, so they want to jump in and replace him. That's a problem. We need decent people running for office, not people that are so transparently scumbags.
- [06:49]
David Pakman
We do need. I agree with that. We need decent people running for office. We don't want people who are transparently scumbags.
- [06:55]
Donald Trump
We.
- [06:56]
David Pakman
But where was that standard in 2016 and where was that standard in 2020 or 2024 with Donald Trump? Where was the outrage and the speeches where, you know, these predators don't belong anywhere near power and if there's smoke, there's fire. When you've got so many different allegations about Trump, where were the demands that Republicans chuck this guy instead? We heard every excuse imaginable. The allegations are politically motivated. It's fake. It's because Trump is so successful. It's because Trump is. Drain the swamp. Voters don't care. Move on, move on, move on. I've got one more of these. Here's Kevin McCarthy saying, When Republicans have a bad candidate, we don't vote for that person. We walk away. What? You made Trump president twice.
- [07:43]
Donald Trump
The one thing I know about Republicans,
- [07:45]
David Pakman
when we had a very bad candidate
- [07:47]
Donald Trump
and found out we didn't vote for that person, we walked away. For better or for worse.
- [07:51]
David Pakman
When Matt Gates came forward.
- [07:53]
Senator John Kennedy
Yeah, yeah.
- [07:53]
Kellyanne Conway
We got rid of them. Yeah.
- [07:54]
David Pakman
Forget about Matt Gates. What about Trump? Trump is the one who has allegations like the ones against Platner, just way more. And so forgive me if I can't take this seriously. If Republicans had consistently applied this standard, I would respect them. If they had said, listen, when multiple credible allegations against Trump surfaced, we walked away from Trump. And that is what Democrats should already have done, by the way, because a lot of, listen, it's been a long time of this stuff. The Reddit comments that were disgusting were out for a while. And he said, oh, I didn't mean them. I was young. You know, the Nazi tattoo. Oh, I didn't know it was a Nazi tattoo.
- [08:35]
Donald Trump
Ok.
- [08:35]
David Pakman
I don't, I don't know that I really believe that. And then allegations and allegations and asked, is anything else going to come out? No, nothing else is going to come out. And it didn't seem believable. And then more stuff comes out. Okay. But I would respect them if they were actually consistent on this standard. If they had said, whether it's a Democrat or a Republican, serious allegations should disqualify someone from office. I said it about Trump and I say it about Platner. Now, are there still some Democrats and people on the left who are defending Platner? There are. I got a couple emails overnight. There was one who goes, this is a Jewish conspiracy to get rid of Platner, and I'm a, I'm a person who is going to stick by him because this is all the Jews that want to get him out.
- [09:23]
Jonathan Swan
That.
- [09:23]
David Pakman
That's what you're going with. I got another email from someone who, it was a wacky email who was, it was like, David, you know, some of us women really like men like Platner who take charge. I'm sure the women. This is an email I got. I'm sure these women that are now coming out against him had great sex with Platner. What? There's a little bit of that, but there's a reason that there is a 95% belief that Platner drops out. So if you had a coherent position all along, fine. But that is not what happened. The standard has become, when Democrats have someone like this, it's a predator who must be thrown out immediately. If it's Trump, you attack the victims, you, you attack the media, you attack judges, you attack juries, you attack everybody but Donald Trump. So these are not principles. These are teams. Now, in my first book, the Echo Machine, I wrote extensively about how their principles evaporate as soon as they're inconvenient. In my forthcoming book, Pay Attention, I write about how the algorithms make it so that the, these people live in a different reality. And there are tons of Republican voters who have limited knowledge of the allegations against Trump because of what's going on. With the algorithm. So if that topic is interesting to you, and it really should be, if you're following politics, make sure you preorder my book at David pakman.com/attention. There's also a limited number of signed copies available. So listen, the point here, David, is not to deserve to. To defend your jersey no matter what. It's. Let's apply clear standards to everybody. If the allegations against Trump were about a Democrat, I would have had the same position. If the allegations against Platner were about a Republican, I would have the same position. It doesn't seem like these are people who should hold public office, but the people making the argument on Fox News have 000 credibility to deliver it. So let's start by applying these standards to the guy sitting in the Oval Office. Give me a break. We have now seen the fastest collapse of a foreign policy victory that I can remember recall. Just a couple of weeks ago, Trump was everywhere, declaring that he had done what no one else could do. He ended the war with Iran. Again, after 40 announcements that it was almost over or over, Trump announced, we've got a memo. We have a letter of understanding with Iran. We're finally getting peace. We're going to have negotiations. Everyone said it couldn't be done, and I am a peacemaker, and I have done it. And again, there was like, oh, Trump gets the Nobel Peace Prize for what? Ending a war he started. In any case, none of it lasted very long because overnight, the United States has launched another round of military strikes against Iran. According to the Pentagon, they went after Iranian military assets because three commercial ships were attacked in the Strait of Hormuz. At the same time, the Treasury Department revoked the temporary authorization that was allowing Iran to sell oil under that interim agreement. So, in other words, when someone tells you the war has ended and you see this, you realize it really hasn't. And then comes the most remarkable part, which is Trump himself sitting there at the Naito summit, asked about the cease fire. And instead of going, no, the cease fire, yes, negotiations are continuing. It's a temporary setback. He basically says the entire thing is dead. It's dead.
- [13:01]
Donald Trump
It's a very interesting question to me. I think it's over. I don't want to deal with them anymore. They're scum. You know what scum is? There's scum. There's sick people. People. They're led by sick people, and they're vicious, violent people. And if they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. I'll speak to her.
- [13:23]
David Pakman
As far as I'm concerned, the cease fire is over.
- [13:27]
Donald Trump
Negotiators, they want to negotiate. They're good people. Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner. But they have to come back to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a waste of time dealing with, with them. They're liars. We make a deal, and if I make a deal with him, we have a deal, and he goes out, he talks, we make a deal. Everyone's agreed, no nuclear weapon. We make a deal. They go outside, talk to the press, they say, we never even talked about it. There's something wrong with them. They're cuckoo.
- [13:54]
David Pakman
They are cuckoo. Think about how extraordinary this is. The guy who spent days celebrating the agreement goes, it's finished. These people are cuckoo. It's not Democrats going, this isn't really a bona fide cease fire. It's Trump. And then he escalates the rhetoric further with this whole, like, they're sick people, they're a cancer, they've got to be cut out. And he says even more military action could be coming. This is why I have been repeatedly saying one of the defining characteristics of Trump is he declares victory long before the work is done. And he did it with infrastructure week, what, 20 times. He did it with the border, he's done it with trade wars, he's done it with help. Remember health care, July of 2020, he goes, we have a new health care bill. It's going to be signed into law within two weeks. And it never happened with Ukraine. I'll end it within a day of becoming President elect. And then it was, I'll end it within a day of being sworn in. It'll be within a month, within 100 days, and then it's maybe, maybe never. And now we've got it with Iran. You announce the success and have a victory lap and tell everybody the problem's been solved. And listen, when he does it, the stock market does spike, but then this happens. And now, as I look, the dow is down 500 points once again. And then later, we have to kind of figure out, was anything really solved here or was it not that original memo? It's important to remember, a lot of people thought the memo basically was like, ok, the deal is done. The memo said there will be 60 days of negotiations. That does not seem to be going particularly well. And remember that even before those talks really could, could begin, J.D. vance went to Switzerland to supposedly partake in negotiations in under 48 hours. He's like, I got to get home. And then we've got ships taking strikes and Iran is threatening and Bahrain is activating missile warnings. Oil prices are up, markets are down. Now, to be very clear, if Iran attacks commercial shipping, any American president would face pressure to respond. That that's totally legitimate. That's a separate question from whether the agreement was even remotely durable. And so the issue is less that the military was used. The issue is Trump sold to the country again, the idea that he had ended the conflict and he wanted the political credit right away and he wanted gas prices to go down right away and the stock market to go up right away. And for everybody to believe this is another historic Trump deal. And now, less than a month later, he's going, it's over. These people are cuckoo. And the guy who campaigned on endless wars are bad. And I'm the peace president. We're going to get you peace through strength. And his supporters celebrated it. Now has an agreement that has fallen apart before the negotiations really advanced. So obviously the immediate danger is more strikes, but the broader danger is this really may be a war that goes close to the midterms. And if that's the case, that is very, very bad for Republicans, but potentially auspicious if your priority is to get different people in charge or at least in control of the House of Representatives. I hate to make it political, but the politics of it matter. Putting Republicans out of power in the House of Representatives would be a great thing to do. And if Trump's incompetence and incoherence push that along, then we have to accept that. A lot of people carrying debt don't think to themselves, I'm in trouble. They're not necessarily behind on payments. They're working, they're kind of managing. But if you're carrying credit card balances, personal loans, collections, medical bills, the question is whether your current plan is getting you out fast enough or just kind of keeping you busy. That is what our sponsor, PDS Debt, can help you figure out. PDS Debt gives you a free 30 second assessment. You can compare your current path with their customized debt relief options. They will look at your unsecured debt. They'll use financial data to personalize a solution that will work for you and show you what you might qualify for. Before you have to decide anything. The programs really are designed to just reduce what you owe, simplify multiple payments into one lower monthly payment, and work towards being debt free. There is no minimum credit score. Savings start the day you complete the assessment. And PDS Debt is top rated in the Industry with thousands of five star reviews and an A plus rating by the Better Business Bureau. Get Your free free 30 second personalized assessment today at PDS debt.com/pacman. The link is in the description. Donald Trump having the worst cognitive day we have ever seen. Today he referred to Ukrainian President Zelensky as President Putin multiple times. He says Japan shot 111 missiles and referred to for former President Barack Obama as Obama and the JCPOA as the jcpoc. Dementia J. Trump is trending. Here is Donald Trump gesturing to Vladimir Zelensky, the Ukrainian president at the Naito summit and says does anybody have a question for President Putin? Pointing to the Ukrainian president. This man is unwell.
- [19:21]
Donald Trump
A lot of energy. Do you have a question for President Putin?
- [19:25]
David Pakman
What?
- [19:28]
Donald Trump
Do you have a question for President. Not. Not so much. What would you like to ask him? Because I'm going to ask.
- [19:34]
David Pakman
This is the worst that he has ever been. The decline is notable. It is palpable and it is serious. An extraordinarily confused. Donald Trump says that 111 missiles were shot by the Islamic Republic of Japan. Japan. What is wrong with him?
- [20:00]
Donald Trump
Which is one of the most beautiful in the world. It's one of the biggest. Abraham Lincoln and two months ago we had 100. I told this story yesterday. We had 111 missile shot by the Islamic Islamic Republic of Japan.
- [20:15]
David Pakman
Excuse me, sir. 111 missiles by Japan.
- [20:19]
Donald Trump
It was shot at the aircraft carrier over a period of about one hour. 111 missiles going to a very expensive ship.
- [20:27]
David Pakman
This guy can't do it. If this. If Biden did just one of these things ever they would have called for his head. And Trump did three of them in a single day. Here he talks about the Obama nuclear deal. Remember? Obama.
- [20:44]
Donald Trump
Obama.
- [20:45]
David Pakman
Oh dear God. Oh no.
- [20:47]
Donald Trump
Again, that was. That was pretty much the. The Obama nuclear. The Obama deal. Obama the. That was one of the.
- [20:58]
David Pakman
You can tell he's struggling. He's completely lost his train of thought.
- [21:01]
Donald Trump
Worst tragedies that happened. That's what happened in the Middle East. That deal set back that whole situation. They went with. Frankly, they picked the wrong country. They picked the wrong country. JC poc. What a terrible.
- [21:19]
David Pakman
I guess because it was Obama and Obama's black. It's the jcpoc person of color or something like that. Guys. This guy can't do it. This is the worst he has ever done.
- [21:32]
Donald Trump
What a terrible deal. I call it the Obama nuclear waste deal because what he did with that deal is he caused tremendous hardship.
- [21:40]
David Pakman
And the President of the United States in the last few hours referred to President Zelensky as the guy he is at war with Putin. He said that Japan launched 111 missiles at an aircraft carrier of the United States and referred to Barack Obama as Obama and referred to the JCPOA as the jcpoc. Where's Jake Tapper? We need a book about this. As the completely outrageous scene continued, Trump started taking questions from reporters on the behalf of Vladimir Putin. And speaking for Putin with Zelensky sitting right there. It is a circus. Russia, a paper tiger referring that they're not doing.
- [22:31]
Donald Trump
Who did I call?
- [22:32]
David Pakman
I'm from telegraphy. Ukrainian media.
- [22:35]
Donald Trump
No, give us a question. Not for Zelensky. Give us a question for Putin
- [22:41]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
today.
- [22:42]
Donald Trump
Yeah, good hard question.
- [22:47]
David Pakman
When will he end this war?
- [22:49]
Donald Trump
That's a good question. I don't think I've ever answered that question. I've been asking that question.
- [22:54]
David Pakman
Trump speaking for Putin to cover up the fact that he mixed up Zelensky and Putin. And he says he speaks to him all the time, but he's never asked, like, when are we going to end the war? Which Trump has promised hundreds of times to do.
- [23:10]
Brian Tyler Cohen
What's the status, by the way?
- [23:11]
Donald Trump
I will tell you, though, he's going to tell you that he wants it ended as soon as. As he can end it.
- [23:16]
David Pakman
Right.
- [23:17]
Donald Trump
He wants it ended. He wants to end it soon. And I ask him and we talk. I talk to him a lot, I talk to him a little bit less, but the relationship is very good. But I talk to President Putin a lot. He wants to end the war.
- [23:33]
David Pakman
Trump now speaking for the Russian president while sitting there with the Ukrainian president. I'm speechless.
- [23:42]
Jonathan Swan
How.
- [23:43]
David Pakman
How is this? It is time to remove him now. He cannot do this. And just wait until you see how he was having to be helped around by President Erdogan. We'll get to that. Couple other moments. Donald Trump says, you've got young guys walking around, but not really walking around because they don't have any legs.
- [24:02]
Donald Trump
We have young guys around not walking around because they have no legs, but their legs were blown off, their arms were blown off, their face was blown off. And they live because of modern medicine. You can do anything, but they're living. They're living like in hell. Their whole.
- [24:20]
David Pakman
The highest IQ president in American history. Their legs were blown off, their arms were blown off, their face was blown off, but they lived because of American medicine. A more prescient and salient statement from an American president. I truly cannot imagine. Are there any maggots in my audience ready to Say, listen, David, I like Trump's tax policy, I like Trump's ideas on trans sports, but it's very obvious that he can't do this anymore, and he needs to either step down or be removed. Is there a single Maga Potamian or a Magadonian or just a Maga in my audience who is prepared to make that declaration? If so, my level of respect for you would go up because this simply cannot continue. And if you think that Donald Trump was disoriented in his speech during this Naito trip, just look at what happened when he tried to walk around. And again, this is a reminder at home, we have learned that Trump basically is limiting his schedule to 12 to 5. When he tries to operate outside of that schedule, things go pretty wacky. And when it is increasingly notable is when he is on these trips. This happened on the Asia trip, this happened on the Middle east trip. With the time change and the different circumstances, he declines significantly. Let's talk about what happened on the tarmac. Donald Trump cannot afford for these videos to go viral because they take four years of Republican attacks. And every single one of those attacks on Biden is pointed right back at Donald Trump. Trump arrived for meetings overseas on his new gifted Qatari plane, the retrofit of which we are paying for with our taxpayer dollars. He looked very tentative walking down the stairs, walking down extraordinarily gingerly, and then had to be led down the red carpet by President Erdogan as Donald Trump visibly struggled to walk in a straight line. A growing issue. Do his children not care enough about this humiliation to put a stop to it?
- [26:42]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Joint Chiefs, he will be there. And then the man putting this all on, which is the President of Turkey, President Eric Erdogan, will be greeting him. And we are about to. There goes President Erdogan greeting the President of the United States.
- [26:54]
David Pakman
Yeah, the president has a great relationship with him.
- [26:56]
Donald Trump
And look at the hand clap right there.
- [26:59]
David Pakman
Also, the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio is traveling with the President on this
- [27:03]
Senator John Kennedy
trip as well, from what we know. So it's interesting because this relationship doesn't just go.
- [27:08]
Donald Trump
When the president was president, he was building Trump hotels, Trump Tower over in Turkey. So they were dealing a, a business level first. And that's where a lot of these leaders. He got to know some Middle Eastern leaders, too, prior to him becoming a politician, because of stuff he's done in business.
- [27:25]
Brian Tyler Cohen
From here, they'll go to the presidential compound. So we'll watch as that takes place. But, Brian, you're absolutely right. A long relationship and President Erdogan has
- [27:33]
David Pakman
said so this entire time. Trump just seems disoriented and he came down the stairs very gingerly. We get the sense he doesn't really know what's going on. But let's continue.
- [27:42]
Brian Tyler Cohen
One thing that he wants is to be given access to the same security initiatives as other NATO members. Turkey is a NAITO member. His slogan has been from Texas to Ankara. Ankara, of course, being in Turkey, he wants access to those programs and he'll be giving them in a pretty extraordinary way with the re access to that F35 program.
- [28:00]
Donald Trump
They're told people are easy about Turkey, a lot of things with Erdogan. But number two is how.
- [28:05]
David Pakman
And Erdogan is guiding Trump. And Trump starts to struggle to walk in a straight line. Trump's right leg is dragging. And off goes Trump to the right. And off goes Trump to the.
- [28:16]
Donald Trump
Whoa.
- [28:17]
David Pakman
Off to the left. And the problems walking simply will not stop. He then pauses and has to be grabbed by Erdogan who says, no, no, no, sir, please continue this way. And Trump looks confused and disoriented and is being helped around. Listen, a lot of 80 year olds would walk carefully down airplane stairs. It's not the craziest thing. What is really the most important thing here is that Republicans never treated Joe Biden this way. For them, every single careful step was evidence of catastrophic decline. Tape on the floor telling him where to stand, which is very common across all. All sorts of public facing events was evidence that he had no idea what was going on. And with Donald Trump, the standards are just completely different. And Erdogan clutching Trump's arm as Trump wanders around to guide him. All of it is the sort of stuff that with Biden would have been evidence that he had to be removed immediately. Now, one of the things that I think we have to acknowledge is that none of us can know exactly what's happening from any one video. But there are, this is really precisely the point. There are two points. Number one, it's not one video. It's now hundreds of videos. Hours after these videos, Donald Trump claimed that Japan sent 111 missiles at an American aircraft carrier, referred to President Zelensky as President Putin, and called the Obama jcpoa. The Obama jcpoc. When we had one video of Biden waving to someone off camera, it was, he doesn't know where he is, he's demented, he's got to be removed. Republicans never extended any kind of charity or restraint with Biden. There was no benefit of the doubt. There was none of it. And Instead, it was Biden has dementia. He's lost, he doesn't know where he is. Millions of social media posts, Fox News segments, campaign ads, merchandise, a whole political narrative built around clips like this. But it was one. And now suddenly, Trump seems to have a serious problem, physically and mentally. But the standards are completely different. Don't read too much into it. Don't read too much into it. It's just an isolated clip. You don't get to have it both ways. Either these videos are unreliable indicators of someone's overall health, or they are meaningful evidence. Pick one. Because if Republicans insist on applying the same standard they spent four years applying to Biden, then today's videos should be generating wall to wall coverage about Trump's balance, his awareness, his physical fitness, his mental fitness, his cognitive fitness. Now, is this the right way to judge a president? Ideally, no. Ideally, you would have reliable medical disclosures from the White House, but we don't have that because they constantly put out propaganda documents rather than serious medical reports. They created this game, ok? They spent years insisting every single staircase, every single pause, every awkward interaction is proof that Biden is incapacitated. We have hundreds of videos of this kind of Donald Trump. So apply it evenly, my friends. That's my only request. Apply the same standards to Trump that you applied to Biden. He doesn't seem to be able to do it anymore. And it's unfortunately very embarrassing for the United States globally. Identity theft usually does not start with some movie version of how hacking takes place. It's boring details that are easy to find. Your full name, current and former addresses, phone number, date of birth, employment history. If you put a bunch of that stuff together, people can then start to figure out, do I know your security answers to security questions? Can I open accounts in your name? This is why our sponsor, Incogni exists. Incogni works to remove your personal info from the Internet. Places like people search sites, online directories, commercial databases. Incogni starts by removing your info from hundreds of the most well known ones and will follow up until it's done.
- [33:00]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
Done.
- [33:00]
David Pakman
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- [33:29]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
It is great to welcome to the program. Today, New York Times journalist Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan here to discuss their brand new book, Regime Change Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump, which I have just, just very few pages left. I was hoping to finish the entire book, but I got through some incredible stuff.
- [33:50]
David Pakman
And I really appreciate you both being here today.
- [33:53]
Maggie Haberman
Thanks for having us.
- [33:54]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
First question I have is the people you speak to as sources, are these folks who are motivated to talk to you because they are concerned about what they are seeing, are you making the initial contact with some of these sources? Just generally, what is the motivation and circumstances of the people you develop as sources for a book like this?
- [34:17]
Maggie Haberman
Jonathan, you want to take that one or do you want me to start?
- [34:19]
Jonathan Swan
Yeah, I mean, look, we made a practice of not talking about our sourcing for this book beyond a very extensive source note that we have in the book, which outlines the period of reporting, the number of interviews, the standards for what we use as dialogue and what we don't use as direct dialogue. Generally speaking, as journalists, especially with this administration, it's incredibly hard to develop good sources. A lot of people take big risks to talk to us, and we're operating an environment where the President has sued our newspaper, has launched leak investigations on multiple stories that we've been involved in. So we just have a practice of not talking about it. I will say, generally, you can't paint with a broad brush. Everyone has a unique, you know, set of motivations, and they can't often be simple boiled down in a simple way. Um, the only thing I'll say, the last thing I'll say on this is, you know, we have made our reporting very specific in this book. You won't find this is not one of those books where it's sort of like smoke in the air. You know, Trump was thinking this thing, this amorphous thing, our reporting. You can check our work. It's. It's on this day, at this time in this room with these people around the table. This was said. And for very highly specific and sensitive meetings in the Situation Room. Nobody in the meetings so far. We're about three weeks after we published, you know, an excerpt in New York Times about the Epstein meetings. We're about three months after we published very sensitive sit room stories about the lead up to the Iran war. Not one person in those meetings that we have very detailed dialogue has denied saying what we say they said. So I would say, you know, we're on very strong footing with our reporting, and we had to leave out a lot of things because we couldn't be 100% sure that it was accurate.
- [36:23]
David Pakman
I want to get back to the
- [36:24]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
lack of denials as a general statement. Is your sense from all of the research and interviews you did for this book that there is more dissent within the administration than what is generally reported in legacy and corporate media?
- [36:40]
Maggie Haberman
It's a good question. Yeah, it's a good. No, no, no. Jonathan, you take. No, you take one. No, it's a good question. But, yeah, I don't think that there's a ton of this is not people rending garments in these massive meetings where there's. There is still a desire, I think, by a lot of people to put a term, one framework on this administration. And Jonathan and I worked very hard to try to make clear that this is a radically different term on a number of fronts. We. One of which is that you basically have a half dozen people who are making the decisions in this administration in the room with Donald Trump. More often than not. It can contract or grow a little bit depending on the issue. But that is who is in the room, number one. Number two, these are people who want to see him succeed. They were either with him for a very long period of time during the campaign when he was at his lowest, or they very much are on board with the fact that he is the president and this is his program. So you can have some dissent, say, Elon Musk versus Scott Besant. Right. And we get into that in great detail in this sort of extraordinary physical confrontation that they had outside the Oval Office. But that's not ideological. That is about implementing the agenda. All of the debates that you see within this administration really are about implementing what Trump wants. And ultimately, as we show with the Iran reporting in particular, you know, nobody in his administration thought this in the senior ranks thought that going to war with Iran this year was a good idea. The closest you would get would be Pete Hegseth. JD Vance was the only one who did what, you know, you could describe as metaphorically, you know, grabbing him by the lapels in these rooms and saying, I don't agree with this. And it cost him with Trump. Trump got aggravated with him. But at the end of the day, Vance, in the final go no go meeting right before the strikes were launched, says, you know, you know how I feel, and I will support you. When Trump was taking inventory of his team. So it's just we cannot overstate how different this is. And for people who want to understand how different it is and how this term is running, that was the goal of this book.
- [38:56]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
In the book, you describe in some significant detail the discussion around the release of the Epstein files and this allegation regarding Trump and Nipples, which was very salacious and titillating prior to the release of the book. One of the things that's notable is, you know, J.D. vance gives his opinion and says, I think this stuff is going to come out.
- [39:16]
David Pakman
We should just get it out there.
- [39:17]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
Susie Wiles seems to represent Trump's opinion that he does not want that stuff out there. And there's other people in the room did. Was Trump's involvement in the decisions around those files as limited as it seems in the book, or is it that you simply were not able to maybe report on the specifics of Trump's involvement? Like you would think that Trump would be more involved maybe than it seems he was in that decision.
- [39:45]
Jonathan Swan
So in a sense, he was profoundly involved because he had made clear to all of them through private and public comments that he wanted nothing to do with. He wanted this stuff to basically disappear, okay? And he would get very snappy when people would bring it up around him. He would get irritated. He was paying attention to people like Charlie Kirk and Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly who were talking about it. He was getting really pissed off. And so there was this sort of general vibe of treading lightly around Trump when it came to this issue. He was not, as far as we know, in these situation room meetings where they were discussing what to do about the Epstein files. The three meetings that we report on over the summer did not include Donald Trump. They were having these conversations away from him. And as you alluded to in your question question, they were pretty awkward conversations because some of that, you know, some of the AIDS were searching.
- [40:40]
Maggie Haberman
They.
- [40:41]
Jonathan Swan
They built this sort of beta, private version of what was supposed to be a public facing Justice Department website where it was going to be sort of the library of all things Epstein. You know, everything that was in the DOJ files, everything that was in civil cases that, you know, are not covered by the doj. And one of the aides, as we describe in the book, was searching Trump through this. And one of the first things that came up was this claim, secondhand claim, by a woman, young woman, by, again, secondhand uncorroborated, that Trump had abused this young woman's nipples. And so they have this conversation about, is this something that the President would be okay with? It's of course possible that there were conversations involving Trump that were more specific that we're not aware of. As with all things Trump, we're constantly trying to learn more, dig more. We don't pretend to think that we have the final word on Trump and Epstein by any stretch. But we did the best we could to put out what we know in the book and in the newspaper.
- [41:44]
Maggie Haberman
One thing, David, I just want to add one note to that too, in terms of just your description at the top about that particular claim. That claim was public already. That was a claim that had been out for a year and a half. It was made in a, an unrelated civil case related to Ghislaine Maxwell and is sued by Virginia Jufrer, who's one of the most vocal, was one of the most vocal of Epstein's victims. And that was unsealed when a bunch of undocuments, a bunch of documents were unsealed by a federal judge. So the point that was coming up was do we put again, not we. This. I'm not endorsing this. I'm just saying this was their conversation. Does the administration put everything up on this public facing website, Website, civil and doj. The problem is again that if you do, from their perspective, if you do everything, you are going to run into Donald Trump a lot of times in these files. Because what ultimately emerged months later in a New York Times analysis from what was produced under this Epstein transparency law that existed primarily out of frustration by the Congress in a bipartisan fashion with the administration dragging its feet was 38,000 references to Trump or his family or his properties. And so again, some of those, you know, most of those I think are fairly benign. In other cases, it involves him traveling on Epstein's plane more than was known before and so forth. But so as Jonathan said, we don't know what we don't know, but it is. Everything related to the Epstein files is unbelievably complicated, has been one of the discoveries that we have made. And it is, I think, part of what is so frustrating for the victims who are looking for some form of justice.
- [43:27]
David Pakman
I don't know if you can put
- [43:28]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
a number on this, but what, what percentage of the material you considered does the book represent in the sense of you've got the totality 100% and you were able to corroborate or source to your satisfaction? X percent that ends up in the
- [43:47]
Jonathan Swan
book, if the question is clear, maybe 5%.
- [43:50]
Maggie Haberman
Yeah, I was going to say that's high.
- [43:52]
Jonathan Swan
Maybe. Maybe 2%.
- [43:53]
Maggie Haberman
Yeah, 1.5 that we used.
- [43:55]
Jonathan Swan
That we used.
- [43:56]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
So in other words, of all it's one of 20 to one of 50 elements you considered actually made it into the maybe.
- [44:04]
Jonathan Swan
That's generous. I really think it's probably 1%.
- [44:08]
Maggie Haberman
It's very low. It's very low.
- [44:10]
Jonathan Swan
Thousands and thousands of pages were thrown out over three years. I mean, for example, we jettisoned 99% of our reporting from the 20th, 23 through the end of 24 period, which was very painful. We have huge amounts. We didn't believe it either met the bar for relevance for this book, which was a very high bar, didn't help explain or illuminate the events that we're living through during this presidency, or we couldn't corroborate. And there was a ton that we couldn't corroborate from last year as well.
- [44:45]
Maggie Haberman
It was deeply frustrating, but it is, but, but we're. That said, it resulted in a, in a, in a product of work that we, in a body of work that we're confident in.
- [44:55]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
So the political retribution aspects of the first year of the second term. You describe in the book a bunch of different scenes related to this. There's the Laura Loomer visit to the Oval Office, which seems, as you describe it to be sort of the first that Trump is being told about some of these allegations or people. And very quickly he sort of seems to say, hey, we've got to, we've
- [45:18]
David Pakman
got to take action.
- [45:19]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
And quickly here you just describes scenes in the transition phase during which Donald Trump is considering certain appointments. And he sort of offhandedly told, hey, this person said one thing once and like, instantly, that person is not viable for Donald Trump's selection. Can you talk a little bit? Based on what, what, you know, how actively is Trump involved in the DOJ agenda today of the retribution and sort of revenge targeting campaign that's going on? Is it more react, as you describe
- [45:53]
David Pakman
in the book, where people come to
- [45:55]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
him and say, here's some people, and he goes, yes, let's do it. Or is it more proactive, his involvement?
- [46:00]
Maggie Haberman
I think we describe it as actually pretty proactive in the book. I mean, on the one hand, the pieces that you're referring to in terms of the people who he considers to be deep state.
- [46:12]
David Pakman
Right.
- [46:12]
Maggie Haberman
That's what you're talking about with Loomer, which is people in the government who did not pass in one way or another, this litmus test of where were you on January 6, where are you on January 7 of 2021? Who won the 2020 election? And that was a major factor in the transition meetings. And we write about that in terms of the DOJ aspect and charging people who Trump perceives as his political enemies. We have a chapter, and then there's other scenes throughout the book as well. But we have a chapter where Trump is getting very, very frustrated last year about the lack of what he sees as Pam Bondi than the Attorney general doing, quote, unquote, the job. The job in Trump's mind is prosecuting people who he wants to see prosecuted. And there was no subtlety about it. Trump was on the morning of September 24th, as we write in the book, telling an aide that he thought he was going to have to fire the top leadership of the DOJ because they weren't doing what he wanted. Nobody was unclear on what he wanted. And he had been very clear that Letitia James and then later James Comey were his, his, his targets. Letitia James was always a top target. Trump is, is very involved in what he wants to see done at the doj. I don't want to suggest that we know more than we do about every single aspect of that. We don't know whether he, you know, was on the phone with Todd Blanche for, say, the settlement involving his IRS lawsuit. And we have no reporting to suggest he was. But there is nobody in this administration who is unclear of what Trump wants. And that chapter in particular, I think really lays out just exactly how the line between the DOJ and the White House that had existed as a norm, not as a law since Watergate, has just been completely erased.
- [48:03]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
Can you talk a little bit about, to make an analogy, I recently read a book about the Harvey Weinstein case and how as reporters were working the story over a long period of time, all of these roadblocks are placed with handlers, whether it's David Boies or Lanny Davis. And there's attempts to interfere with the reporting and sometimes there's threats.
- [48:30]
David Pakman
And can you talk a little bit
- [48:31]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
about, in your work for a book like that this, is there enough knowledge of what you're up to that people do try to interfere or to suggest that there may be repercussions if you go forward or that sort of intimidation or interference with the reporting?
- [48:49]
Jonathan Swan
Well, it's sort of different in this case because the Harvey Weinstein was very cloak and daggers. You know, prior private investigators, all kinds of shadowy. Yes, you know, whatever. Three days before we had an appointment to see the President of the United States, he posted on Truth Social threatening to sue us.
- [49:12]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
Yes.
- [49:13]
Jonathan Swan
And attacking Maggie in very personal terms, which of course sets a message for the whole administration. We've certainly had stories that we've written, particularly when it deals with sensitive national security material that a bunch of that has was in the book as well that have been under investigation by the government. The President has obviously active lawsuits against the New York Times and many other media companies. So there's many tools that he tries to use, but they're not really a secret. They're very much out in the open. And that's by design. It's, it's to try to create a chilling effect and let people know, you know, there's a cost to doing this type of reporting. We're very lucky. I mean, yes, there's all this talk about, you know, I understand it, but I just disagree with it. There's this sort of reflexive kind of criticism of quote, unquote, legacy media. I, I understand that. I understand there's a lot of valid criticisms, but for us, it's actually essential that we're part of a big infrastructure and a big institution because we have lawyers. New York Times has the, the ability to protect itself and defend itself and by the way, defend all the other media institutions as well when there are First Amendment cases. You know, David McCraw, who's our top lawyer, you know, basically the whole, the whole infrastructure and industry of journalism basically owes him a debt of gratitude. We have security teams, technology, you know, technological security is, is so important in what we do now because of government leak investigations and, you know, the sophistication of the people on the other side of the reporting trying to find our sources. So it's only as part of this giant ship that Maggie and I can do the specific type of work that we do.
- [51:08]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
To the best of your knowledge right now, who has the most influence over the decisions that Donald Trump is making
- [51:14]
Maggie Haberman
day to day, it's not one person and it's, it's issues dependent. Right. I mean, all we can tell you is who is, who are among the powerful people in his orbit. And so when you are, when he's in the middle of a war with Iran, you have. Pete Hegseth is obviously in the room, but Pete Hegseth learned a while ago to bring Dan Kane, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, with him to these meetings with Trump because they're just sort of better as a team. And it becomes there's safety in numbers on issues of immigration, on issues of domestic policy, on issues involving DEI or a number of other focuses of Trump that were campaign promises, the border. That is Stephen Miller. And I don't think that's a surprise to anybody in terms of the doj, It's Todd Blanche, who was Trump's personal lawyer. There's also, you know, And Susie Wiles, the Chief of staff is obviously a major figure there. Scott Besant is currently with Trump, was talking at the NATO alliance and Trump really likes Besant. The Treasury Secretary respects him, turns to him many number of times. He's one of the few people who Trump really has not criticized or undermined in this administration, at least to the best of our reporting. But remember that Trump also has all kinds of inputs from outside the government. So one of the I think under evaluated people in this administration, and we do get into this in the book, is Boris Epstein, who is Trump's personal legal advisor. Top legal advisor, coordinates the law firms, coordinates people who are doing the work for Trump. He is immensely powerful in terms of influencing Trump on a number of issues. He has allies throughout the government in senior positions. It just can't be understated.
- [53:04]
Interviewer (David Pakman or host)
Thanks so much to both of you for talking to me today. The book is Regime Change Inside the Imperial Presidency. Presidency of Donald Trump. We've been speaking with Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan.
- [53:13]
David Pakman
Really appreciate your time. I know you're both busy.
- [53:16]
Maggie Haberman
Thank you so much for having us.
- [53:19]
David Pakman
Some people assume focus is just about willpower. But if you've sat down to work and you're checking your phone, switching tabs in your browser, getting pulled into distraction, you know it's not that simple. I want to tell you about our sponsor, Brain fm. Brain FM is a music app designed to support focus. It's not the random playlists or ambient videos that people often will put on. It's music built from the ground up for cognitive performance. Brain FM works with musicians and neuroscientists to create music that will interact with your brain's natural rhythms. Their patented audio technology is designed designed to influence brain activity related to attention. This is why Brain FM is the only music app funded by the National Science Foundation. The app includes a number of modes depending on what you're doing. Deep work, creative motivation. There's a dedicated ADHD mode for people whose brains may benefit from extra support. There's also been peer reviewed research published showing that their media music increased activity in attentional networks and also improved performance on attention based tasks. Try it yourself with 30 days free at Brain FM. Pacman. The link is in the description. Listen. It's been a terrible 24 hours for Trump. There's no other way to say it. It started with getting off a plane and again being unable to walk in a straight line and having to be helped by President Erdogan. And then it came when Donald Trump started confusedly looking around and having to be redirected by President Erdogan. And then Donald Trump said to President Zelensky, President Putin, and then Trump said that Japan struck an aircraft carrier of ours with 111 missiles. And then he referred to the Obama JCPOA as the Obama JCPOC. It was a damn terrible day. But then Donald Trump fell asleep again. And he didn't fall asleep while Marco Rubio was talking during a Cabinet meeting. He fell asleep while the Turkish President Erdogan was speaking. If Biden so much as blinked during an event, Republicans said that he was asleep. If Biden looked down for a second, they said, he has no idea what's going on and he's non compost mentis. If Biden seemed tired during or after an international trip, it was breaking news for days. Donald Trump is now in the middle of another one of these viral clips, falling asleep right during his meeting with fellow authoritarian Turkish President Erdogan. Take a look at this. Trump leaning desperate to try to stay awake. He should wear those glasses that have eyeballs on the outside. That would help. There he goes, Trying to pop his eye open, realizing that the interpreter is speaking to him, but he just can barely do it. I think you get the picture. It is not normal to fall asleep and to struggle to stay awake so regularly in the seated position, particularly in moments of relative, relative adrenaline, in the sense that these are on camera, meetings, lights, microphones, high stakes world leaders. It's not normal. And there have been people who have talked about sleep apnea. I know a couple doctors who are like, listen, you can tell Trump has sleep apnea when you just consider his age and weight, the daytime sleep sleepiness, the, the breathing noises that he makes when he, like, he just, it's the full picture of sleep apnea. They haven't told us Trump has sleep apnea, but a bunch of doctor friends are like, he obviously has it. His head is tilted downward. He's not visibly engaging with the speech. Here is a sort of more zoomed in clip of it.
- [57:54]
Donald Trump
Is that America?
- [58:00]
David Pakman
This? You can tell he, I love it when he just opens his left eye. He's like, am I supposed to be asleep right now? He's trying to pay attention to the interpreter of, for what President Erdogan is saying, but he can't do it. And of course, this immediately spreads online. And the right wing goes, he's clearly just doing engaged listening and all of that stuff. I care about the political aspects of this. They never applied this level of caution when it was Joe Biden. Like I said, earlier, they didn't say, maybe Biden was just resting his eyes. Maybe Biden was thinking, maybe we can't diagnose someone from one 10 second clip. How about a thousand 10 second clips? Instead they went, case closed, Biden can't stay awake. He's mentally gone. He's unfit. Remove him now. And it wasn't just social media doing it. It was campaign messaging. It was cable news segments and political ads. And, you know, they were sending out fundraising emails making these claims, Sleepy Joe can't do it, he's demented. And they built a whole narrative around these types of moments. So do they believe in that standard? That's all I want to know. If they do, this clip should be dominating conservative media for the next week. The president can't stay awake. And he said, Japan shot us with 111 missiles and he called President Zelensky, President Putin. Now, if they are ready to cop to the fact that they don't really believe this is the same standard, maybe those Biden clips never really proved what they said they proved in the first place. So I don't even know if the larger point is whether Trump fell asleep this particular time. I think he was trying to stay awake and probably was dozing. The larger point is they spent years saying these clips can be used to diagnose presidential incapacity. That's when the camera was on Biden. Now the camera is on Trump. And everybody on the MAGA side is like, oh, no, we need nuance now. That's the hypocrisy that I'm pointing out here. And when this is happening, listen, is it two to three times a week now for months that Donald Trump is falling asleep in public? It's a very humble request. I just want the same standards applied. Am I crazy for wanting that? And as I've said before, when they go, oh, we have a principle of free speech that we always adhere to, and then free speech gets a little bit inconvenient for their political adversaries and then they go suppress their speech. We have a principle of low regulation. We don't get involved. Businesses can do what they want to do. And then Twitter, prior to Elon owning it goes, hey, we're not going to allow you to just post dangerous medical misinformation. And they go, no, regulate Twitter to force them to publish medical misinformation. Give me a break, guys. You don't believe this crap for a second. Don't try to convince us that you do. Donald Trump said the cease fire between the US And Iran is over, which we covered earlier. But he also said a lot of other things during this event in Ankara with the Naito Summit and President Erdogan and also with Mark Rutta. And I want to look at a couple of these moments because they are significantly consequential from the point of politics. Now, just as a reminder, this is the event during which Trump said that the Iranians are scum, vicious, cuckoo, and that the cease fire is dead.
- [61:32]
Donald Trump
It's a very interesting question to me. I think it's over. I don't want to deal with them anymore. They're scum. You know what scum is? Yeah, they're scum. They're sick people. They're led by sick people and they're vicious, violent people. And if they had a nuclear weapon, they'd use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. I'll speak to our negotiators. They want to negotiate. They're good people. Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner, but they have to come back to me. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a waste of time dealing with them. They're liars. We make a deal. And if I make a deal with him, we have a deal, and he goes out, he talks, we make a deal, everyone's agreed, no nuclear weapon. We make a deal, they go outside, talk to the press, they say, we never even talked about it, there's something wrong with them. They're cuckoo. As far as I'm concerned, it's over.
- [62:24]
David Pakman
Their cuckoo. Okay, so we looked at that earlier in our broader discussion of the collapse of the ceasefire and the resumption of the war with Iran. Now, there was another question that was asked as a follow up to this, which I want to look at now. Good question for a reporter, which is, are talks not even going to continue? Like, okay, the cease fire is done, they're bombing, you're bombing, you're calling them cuckoo, you're calling them scum, Fine. But will the negotiation continue? Because we're still in the 60 day period of negotiation because of Trump's beautiful letter. And Trump goes, that's a waste of time. They can talk, but it's pointless. Does this mean that talks with Iran will not resume?
- [62:59]
Donald Trump
I don't care. They can talk, but I think they're wasting their time. They're a bunch of lying guys. I do my whole life, that's all I do is deals. My whole life is, that's how I became president. I guess that's a deal too, right? But I Made a lot of money. I had a lot of great success. Tremendous success. Everything I did, I was successful. And I deal with these guys and I say, this is from a different school. They're liars. They're cheats. They're sick people. They've hurt their own people. They killed 54,000 people as of now that were protesting. You know, when people say, how come they haven't taken over? They can't take over because they're dead. They killed them. Nobody's going to take over. They have no guns, and the other side has machine guns, and they're killing them. The press hasn't reported, but they're bad people. They're bad people. And frankly, I don't want to waste my time with them.
- [63:51]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Them.
- [63:51]
Donald Trump
Now, I'll let our wonderful negotiators keep talking if they want, but I don't see it. I don't like.
- [63:59]
David Pakman
This is not how you end a war. It's if your goal is to end a war, these are not the steps in the path to doing it. And I think it's becoming clear to Donald Trump, Listen, sometimes Trump does actually come to a realization. And Trump was telling us on Ukraine, Russia, within an hour of becoming president elect, it'll be over within an hour of being sworn in, it'll be over within 100 days of being sworn in. And then he's kind of like, yeah, I don't really know that I can end this thing. And he's mostly walked away. Still pays lip service to it, but has mostly walked away. Now Trump is realizing the exact same thing with Iran. It's not quite so easy. This really isn't how you end a war. Now, Donald Trump made a number of other statements, including talking once again about TikTok, falsely claiming that he is number one on TikTok. When Trump gets a talking point he likes, he sticks with.
- [64:47]
Donald Trump
You know, I watched a couple of people critical of the fact that TikTok, TikTok is so bad, it's so dangerous, it's so horrible. They're spreading all these rumors. And the numbers came out yesterday. You know who's number one on TikTok? I am. I'm number one on TikTok. And all I talk about is how bad communism is, right? They say, oh, it's terrible. They're spreading. Put up number one. I listen to Gordon Chang. I like Gordon Chang, but he's always like, negative. Oh, China's so terrible. They're so terrible, and TikTok is so terrible. But I'm number one on TikTok. I have like 4 billion views or something like that. So I don't know. People have to get the priorities, priorities straight.
- [65:26]
David Pakman
There you go. Tic Tac is important. Of course, Trump lying. The David Pakman show actually is bigger than Donald Trump on Tik Tok and on TikTok. But it doesn't matter why. Let the facts get in the way of a good talking point. Trump later mused about getting assassinated. And I've got to tell you, there is a little bit of a darkness that's been creeping in to a lot of Donald Trump's public statements. Remember the whole thing about I don't know that I'm going to be going to heaven, increasingly thinking about his legacy and increasingly thinking about his mortality. And now Trump says he's gotten lucky with avoiding these assassination attempts. But that luck, often, it doesn't last very long. Take a listen to this. Very interesting.
- [66:11]
Donald Trump
We have had a really good day. We're going to have another good half a day.
- [66:16]
David Pakman
Sorry, I think I played the wrong clip. This is the one about Donald Trump's assassination.
- [66:20]
Donald Trump
In trouble for 47 years. And there we took out their first set of leaders. We took out their second set of leaders. They want to take out the US Leader. Me, I'm on every list. I saw things this morning. I'm on every single one of their lists. And so far, I guess I've been a little bit lucky, but that maybe doesn't last very long.
- [66:43]
David Pakman
Oh.
- [66:44]
Donald Trump
Because that's the way it goes. But we have great people, but these are evil, sick people.
- [66:49]
David Pakman
So Trump suggesting that avoiding assassinations, he's been lucky to do a degree. It may not last very long. And I do think that there is a darkness there, as Donald Trump is sort of realizing, hey, there are a lot of people that want me dead and I don't know how long my luck is going to run. I don't know if I'm going to heaven. There's definitely a descending darkness on Trump. And then finally, finally, after Donald Trump's extensive meltdown, this is the clip I wrongly started playing before. Mark Rudda laughs, shakes Trump's hand and reporters are rushed out of the room. No more questions for the orange president, please.
- [67:28]
Donald Trump
We have had a really good day. We're going to have another good half a day and then I'll see you later. We'll talk to you. Thank you very much. Thank you. I also will do a press.
- [67:46]
David Pakman
Thank you.
- [67:48]
Jonathan Swan
Thank you,
- [67:53]
Donald Trump
Thank you, thank you.
- [67:55]
David Pakman
Urgently getting everybody out. Listen, it's time for Donald Trump to come back to the United States. And I don't think he should do any more of these trips. He just can't do it. Think about what the last 24 hours have been. Cease fire blows up in Trump's face and he starts calling his negotiating counterparts on the Iranian side scum and cuckoo and declares that it is over. He says Japan bombed one of our aircraft carriers with 111 missiles. He calls President Zelensky, President Putin. He calls the Obama jcpoa, the Obama jcpoc. He struggles to walk in a straight line after getting off of the plane and he has to be led around by President Erdogan. How can anyone say that this is working? How can anyone say that he's capable of this? It's got to come to a close, folks. It just has to. Now, on today's bonus show, we will talk about Graham Platner's desire before he drops out of the race to choose his replacement. I don't think he's going to be able to do that. I'll explain why. We will talk about another big price hike coming for Obamacare premiums. Obamacare, Obamacare. Hard to remember, but the price hikes are coming and an ICE agent has fatally shot a man in Houston during what is being described as a targeted enforcement operation. What happened and what is going to happen legally? All of that and more. When I'm joined by producer Pat on today's bonus show, make sure that you have preordered my book. Pay attention at David pakman.com/attention. A limited number of signed copies are available. And as I remove my Make Algae Great Again hat, I will remind you that this hat and a whole bunch of other great stuff is available at the David Pakman store. Store.David Pakman.com I'll see you on the bonus show and I'll be back here tomorrow unless someone stops me.