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- [00:00]
David Pakman
Today, we're going to examine the conspiracy theory that can never be disproven because according to its believers, the lack of evidence is the evidence. This is a common one that's been building lately and I want to take a dive into it. We're also going to consider whether Donald Trump's bizarre meltdown with Kristen Welker is actually more than just an interview meltdown because there's a growing number of commentators asking whether what happened on Sunday was not really a tantrum, but potentially a health event. And then 20,000 people, really more actually were inconvenienced in Manhattan for Donald Trump to go to Game 3 of the NBA Finals. He showed up, he got brutally booed, and then he fell asleep. Was it worth it for those 20,000 plus fans? And then we go from the president to the Vice President. J.D. vance goes on Fox News and somehow argues that legally counting all ballots in accordance with the law is shady. It's suspicious. While claiming that Republicans are the party of normal people. And we will also look at a flesh eating parasite that has reappeared in the United States after cuts to monitoring programs. All of that and more. Today, A flesh eating parasite has been found in the United States. And I am not talking about J.D. vance. There is a, there's a flesh eating parasite that can burrow into cows and other livestock and even your dog called screw worm, New World Screwworm. Multiple cases have been confirmed in Texas and New Mexico within the last week. Three calves and a goat in Texas have it. There's a case of a dog in New Mexico. According to the usda. There are questions as to whether the dog was in Mexico. Did it cross legally? Is it authorized to work in the United States? Did the dog take anyone's job? A lot. A lot of questions have not yet been answered, some of them about screwworm. It is important. All joking aside, it's important if you have livestock or pets to watch for maggots. And to be clear, I'm talking about real maggots, not maggots. In other words, Trump supporters. We're talking about real, the little worm like things. And I don't think it will surprise a lot of people in my audience to hear that. We've heard this story before. Screw worm was eradicated in the United states in the 1960s. The Trump administration came in. They cut $250 million in funding for projects under the Global Health Security Program. One of those programs that was cut, monitors and contains New World Screwworm. Now there is a panic over New World Screwworm. That program is Gone. But rest assured that the Trump administration has found somebody to blame. That person is named Joe Biden. I don't think that that's a huge surprise to you. And by the way, Obama, maybe they'll even go back and blame Obama. Here is Senator Roger Marshall, a Republican, saying it's another thing that we can thank Joe Biden for.
- [03:32]
Ron DeSantis
I want to switch over because I know you're on the Senate Agriculture Committee and beef prices are at an all time high. There's new concern about the beef supply now with the disruption, discovery of that flesh eating screw worm among cattle there in Texas. But what's being done to try to contain this new threat and, and really overall to, to keep these prices down?
- [03:53]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yes, well, we, we got this. We've been through this before. We eradicated the screwworm in 1966 and we'll talk about this.
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J.D. Vance
But this is another thing.
- [04:02]
Brian Tyler Cohen
We can thank Joe Biden for that.
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J.D. Vance
When millions of people came out of
- [04:07]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Central America, they brought this screw worm with them.
- [04:10]
J.D. Vance
It was on their pets, maybe on their flesh as well.
- [04:13]
Ron DeSantis
Ron, I want to switch over because I know you're on the.
- [04:17]
David Pakman
I know that for a lot of people in my audience, I don't have to clarify this, but I will anyway, just to put it on the record. There is zero evidence, zero evidence linking screwworm in four animals in Texas and New Mexico to human migrants crossing the US Border would screw worms on their body nor on their pets. There's just, there's zero evidence of it. Now I know that in this new world, and we're going to talk about this, no evidence is sometimes used to prove the conspiracy. They covered it up so well that they didn't leave any evidence which proves that this is exactly where we should be looking. That's nonsense. We're going to get to that later. But there's zero evidence that that is what took place. It is not just Senator Marshall. Here is Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins, who loves any opportunity to blame a Democrat. She says this is Biden's fault. They didn't push back against screwworm enough during the last administration. Dear God, Brooke, give me a break.
- [05:22]
Ron DeSantis
Eradicated it. Pushed it all the way back past the Darien Gap into South America where it was contained for decades, I guess almost 50, 60 years. I do think it's important to note that under the last administration, with a massive movement under the open border, the last administration policy, the cartels, etc. Border security, that's when it began to make its way back up toward America, hitting Mexico in early 2023, moving its way up through Mexico in 2024. And when we walked in the door last year, I was sworn in on February 13th of March of 2025, a
- [06:01]
David Pakman
fateful day for America.
- [06:03]
Ron DeSantis
It they laid this all out for me and I said, well, where the sterile flies, right? I mean, this is we.
- [06:08]
David Pakman
Exactly. It was the prior administration, et cetera. Listen, so there's two layers here. Layer one, Biden didn't cut funding for programs to monitor exactly. For this type of thing, specifically Screwworm. Biden didn't do any cuts to the funding. Trump did. That's the most important thing. But that's only the top layer. I think in a sense the real story is not whether this specific outbreak can be tied to one specific budget cut. The story is that Trump simultaneously cuts disease surveillance and then blames everybody else when surveillance systems start detecting problems. This is the formula of maga. Cut a prevention program, declare the that government is useless, and then blame the previous administration when the completely predictable consequences start to show up. And notice how quickly, I mean, there's not even like a how do we stop this kind of situation. It's who can we blame? Public health and agricultural protection just become part of the culture war content. It's not about governance. Screwworm eradication was a great success of government intervention. Thanks to government, screwworm was eliminated. It's not, oh, the free market solved the problem. The government got in the way. Taxpayer funded science monitoring and coordinated action solved screwworm. And then now Trump cuts a program and screw worms here and they go, let's blame Joe Biden. The the sort of sick irony is that right wingers have spent years celebrating the elimination of screwworm as proof that the United States can do big things. Look, we got rid of Screwworm and now the exact same people are treating the monitoring programs that kept it eliminated as wasteful spending. And then it's back and they go, let's blame Joe Biden. Even though Biden didn't cut the monitoring program, Trump did. This is maga. This is Republican ism. It's the RFK stuff. Exact same sort of stuff that RFK pushes. By the way, new reports that rfk, he's, he's gone. This dude is gone. He's just not working. It's a whole mess in every single one of these departments. But now screw worm. So watch for the maggots. Maggots of all kinds. Importantly, one of the most fascinating things about the 2020 election Conspiracy theories is that they accidentally created a completely new definition of evidence. We are seeing More and more conspiracy theories presented with zero evidence. Sometimes we would see almost no evidence. We would have like motive or something. We are now seeing conspiracy theories presented with no evidence. And the lack of evidence is used to say we're right. It has been six years since Donald Trump lost to Joe Biden in the 2020 election. A few months shy of six years. We have been very close to all the evidence coming out according to Trump and MAGA for six years and they still have found no evidence. You might think that's a problem. Dear God, after six years, no evidence that really puts it puts a dent in our conspiracy theory. No, they covered it up so well that there's no evidence. For most of human history, evidence was the thing you used to prove a claim. Here's my claim, here's the evidence for it. In election conspiracy world within the Trump universe, the absence of evidence is now proof. The argument starts with certainty that the election was stolen. It's not. It might have been stolen. It's Trump straight up says it and it comes down like a waterfall to everybody else in maga. The election was, was rigged. Biden didn't win. Trump won every state. If California had counted their ballots fairly in 2020, Trump would have won California. And then we get to the obvious question, well, what is the evidence that would support the largest election fraud in probably global history, short of just authoritarian dictatorships, where it's, where it's an overt fraud, fraud. And this is where the logic takes this incredible 180 degree turn. The fact that they still have found no evidence and that Trump insists it's going to come out soon is the proof according to them. If courts say there's no merit to these claims, the courts are compromised. And the fact that the courts keep saying no and have been saying no for six years is proof that the courts are in on it. If you do a recount and it essentially matches the original results, it proves that the recounters were in on the fraud, they worked to hide the fraud successfully. If you then do a forensic audit, which they can't even define, but imagine that they do it in order to find the widespread fraud and the forensic audit finds nothing. It's proof that the fraudsters covered their tracks so that the forensic audit wouldn't turn anything up. If even Republican elected officials go, there's no cause for concern here. We're going to certify these results. There are some rhinos. They're Republicans in name only, they hate the President, they're in on it. If a Trump appointed or Republican appointed judge dismisses a lawsuit. The judges are compromised. If specifically when it's a Trump appointed judge, they go. That's how deep the conspiracy goes. Even the Trump appointed judges have been co opted. So notice what's happening here because it's really the defining characteristic of conspiracy thinking. Every outcome confirms the original belief. We claim a conspiracy and, and we find evidence we were right. We claim a conspiracy and we find no evidence. We were also right because they covered up the evidence. Evidence would prove the conspiracy and no evidence also proves the conspiracy. Contradictory evidence also proves the conspiracy. This. Look, you've got one piece of evidence that says A and another piece of evidence that, that says the opposite of a must be a conspiracy. Because of these conflicts. They didn't, they didn't. They tried to cover it up, but didn't cover it up well enough. When this is the environment, and I write about this to a degree in the Echo Machine, my first book, when, when that's the scenario, you aren't testing a theory against reality, which is what we like to do. We have, we have a theory or a hypothesis. I believe this is how the world works. Let's look for the evidence around it. What you're doing is you're protecting your beliefs from, from reality, impinging on them. And the reason that this matters is that conspiracy theories survive differently than ordinary claims. Ordinary claims rise or fall based on evidence. The vaccine conspiracy stuff is a good example. We go back to disgraced former doctor, formerly licensed Dr. Andrew Wakefield who said there is a link here between the MMR vaccine and autism in kids. And then we start looking into it and it turns out that this was not a randomized controlled trial. This was based on a dozen or so kids that were specifically brought to Andrew Wakefield. There was really no study done. And then it turns out that Andrew Wakefield had a financial interest in a measles only vaccine as an alternative to the mmr. And the paper was thrown out and he lost his medical license. And yet there are still people who go, that was all part of the COVID up. Andrew Wakefield found the truth that vaccines cause autism. And so the Lancet retracted the paper under pressure from vaccine activists and then he lost his medical license because of pressure on the medical board. Doesn't matter what information you present, their claim resists all of it because no matter what happens, it's all evidence of the conspiracy. The, the theory becomes self sealing. There's another phrase for this, doxastic closure where there is no way to interrupt this circle of beliefs. Nothing can get in. It's like. It's like an egg that is blocking all sperm from getting into it. It's just they're bouncing off or something like that. I don't know. Come up with some kind of visual or metaphor. But the conclusion is always the. The same. Now step back for a second. If we go back to the 2020 election fraud claims, think about how extraordinary the claim really is. And this goes back to extraordinary claims require maybe not extraordinary evidence, but solid evidence at least. We are talking about a conspiracy, especially in Trump's version where he claims he won every state. It would have required cooperation across multiple states and jurisdictions in a completely undetectable way. Undetectable in the undetectable way. You would need election workers, state officials, local officials, federal officials, judges, lawyers, observers, administrators. Everybody would need to say nothing and also be in on it or at least be willing to remain silent. And this would be, you know, not just Democrats, Republicans, blue states, red states, liberal officials, conservative officials, Democratically appointed judges, Republican appointed judges. And six years in, after investigations, lawsuits, audits, recounts and reviews, everybody who could actually present real evidence has stayed quiet and endless investigations have found zero. Think about how convenient that is. If nothing is found, they hit it. If claims collapse in court, the courts are corrupt. If audits failed, the audits were compromised. This is why conspiracy theories can be so difficult to dislodge. And this is also why many cult members are so difficult to get out of cults, because it's the same thing. It's, hey, didn't you notice that the cult leader said X and that conflicts with Y. No, no, no. The cult leader works in mysterious ways and has special knowledge that we are not privy to and blah, blah, blah, the theory will adapt to reality instead of reality testing the theory. So if there's any major takeaway from the 2020 election conspiracy movement, I don't think it's just that a lot of people believed something that wasn't supported by evidence. That's actually kind of common. People often believe things not supported by evidence. The takeaway is a huge number of people adopted a framework where no evidence proves the conspiracy. In their minds, they cheated so well that there's no proof. They covered it up so perfectly that nobody can find a shred of evidence that it actually took place. Once you accept that, it's very dangerous, because you can convince yourself of almost anything, because no amount of missing evidence will change your mind. The missing evidence is part of it. That's why we are six years in and you go to a Trump rally and you've still got people who believe. Yeah, it was rigged, it was stolen and that is part of why we need independent media. Today is the one day membership drive. The White House put us on a list. I am considered a media offender. The White House is working to try to shut down this and other independent media shows. If you did not get on my newsletter in time, if you did not get the email today with the code and you want to take advantage of this one day membership drive, fueling up for what may be a long legal battle for the show, just email in info@david pakman.com and say, David, I missed the code. I want the code. Give me that code David, and we'll email you back with the information. The frustrating part about debt is that even if you're doing everything right, the system is stacked against you. Interest compounds, the fees pile up and you end up paying just to stay in the exact same place while the bank collects. That's why I want to talk to you about PDS debt, which works with people dealing with unsecured debt. That means credit cards, personal loans, medical bills. There's no one size fits all approach. They will evaluate your specific situation and make a plan that works for you. There is no minimum credit score required. PDS debt is A plus rated by the Better Business Bureau. 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They're also easy to use throughout the day and in places where smoking or vaping isn't allowed or it would require you to step out conspicuously for a cigarette, which can cause other problems. Zipix also offers caffeine and B12 toothpicks if you're reducing nicotine altogether or don't even use it at all. If you're tired of cigarettes or vaping? Try Zipix Nicotine TOOTHPICKS and get 10% off your first order with code PACMAN@ZIPPIXTOOTHPICKS.COM the link is in the description. You must be 21 or older to order. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. President Donald Trump inconvenienced tens of thousands of people in order to go to Game 3 of the NBA Finals last night, showed up and was brutally booed despite the attempt to cover up the booing, and then fell asleep during the game. Come on, guys, please get me the hell out of this timeline. Take a look at this. After shutting down much of the area around Madison Square Garden in Manhattan, inconveniencing the workers at Madison Square Garden, the attendees at Madison Square Garden, the National. The game is finally set to start. They're singing the national anthem. Donald Trump was booed brutally. Now I'm going to play the first clip, which is from the TV broadcast. And you might notice that in this clip, it's not as obvious that there is a brutal, resounding boo in the stadium. In this clip, you might almost say to yourself, are they cheering or are they booing? Take a look.
- [21:28]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
Night.
- [21:38]
David Pakman
All right, so you listen to that and you go, yeah, I definitely heard some boos, but not that many. Well, it appears as though, without making any conspiratorial allegations, it appears as though the audio track on the broadcast did not match what was taking place inside of Madison Square Square Garden. We have alternative audio and video. And this is from a live audio source in the room, not from a TV broadcast that has a selected mix of audio sources. And as you will hear, it's not sounding so good. So you'll hear first there's, there's cheering. And then when Trump goes up on the big screen, the booing will start.
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Brian Tyler Cohen
Sorry.
- [22:26]
David Pakman
And I'm realizing it takes, it's about 45 seconds for that to start. Here we go. As you can see, those don't exactly sound like cheers. And then another video from a live source in the room. And it is even worse, Almost unanimous booing of Donald Trump. They don't want him there. And by the way, the Knicks lost. And there's a bunch of Knicks fans going, hey, this guy might be jinxing us if you believe in that sort of thing. And then after all of this, after inconveniencing everybody, after requiring attendees and workers to show up hours early to get through TSA style security security, Donald Trump falls asleep. Here he is. Night, night. As the game goes on. Trump is out. As Joe Rogan would say, say, imagine inconveniencing everybody to go to this game and then just falling asleep. Now, I do want to remind you, as we consider and explore the health situation of the President of the United states, who in five days will be turning 80 and is. Listen, it's not a criticism. He's the oldest president ever. It's just a reality. He wants to deny the reality, but it's the reality. He specifically has said many times Biden can fall asleep anywhere. Trump doesn't fall asleep. Remember this one from the Andrew Schultz show?
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Donald Trump
He has one ability I don't have. Yeah, he sleeps. He can sleep. This guy goes on a beach and he lays down on one of those, you know, six ounce. They weigh six ounces and you can't lift it. No, they're meant. They're meant for. Were they meant for children?
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David Pakman
Yeah.
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Donald Trump
Young people and old people to lift? Yeah, they. Aluminum. You know, aluminum. They weigh very little. And he can't lift. And somebody convinced him he looks. A bathing suit. And when you're 82, typically bathing suits aren't going to make you look great. You're not going to be enhanced. Yeah.
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David Pakman
Isn't Trump so funny?
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Donald Trump
It's just one of those things. I can't be sure about that. But typically, you know, when he's packing, he could. I don't know what the hell. He's back in. But I don't want. And I don't want to know. I don't know. But. But he has an ability to fall asleep while on camera. He can lie down on one of those things. Yeah. And in minutes, he's stone cold out. And he's got cameras because he's the president. So they have cameras on him. Yeah, yeah. And then they show him sleeping on the beach. Yeah.
- [25:31]
David Pakman
Trump has fallen asleep like this dozens of times now. And I know that for a lot of us, the hypocrisy is kind of the big deal, but the hypocrisy doesn't really seem to make a difference anymore, especially to Republicans. They don't care about double standard. They. It's the furthest thing from what they are concerned with. I think the bigger story is Trump is sleeping through a really difficult time for the country. Literally sleeping through. Trump is going to sporting events at great taxpayer expense and inconveniencing tens of thousands of Americans when we are in an optional war, when gas prices are through the roof, grocery prices are up rather than down, oil and energy prices are up rather than down. And the Standing and respect level of the United States around the world is in the toilet. That to me is the bigger story and I would love it if more magas came forward and just said, you guys are right on this issue. I thought that Trump aligned better with my views. I voted for him because of men and women's sports or whatever. But I've been completely wrong. I was bamboozled by Trump. I got, I yesterday I invited Trump supporters who are ready to kind of, you know, do their mea culpa right to me. I'll respect it. One person wrote to me and said, you know, David, I did vote for the guy three times that I'm sick of it. This guy doesn't give a damn about me. He's parading around there spending millions in taxpayer dollars to play golf and go to sporting events. And meanwhile, so many broken promises. One guy wrote to me, okay, come on guys, this is not what you were promised. Admit it. Admit he's screwing up day to day life for the average American and then I will respect you much more. Not that you want my respect necessarily, but you would have it whether you want it or not. After leaving his nap at Madison Square Garden, Donald Trump got on a plane to go back to Washington D.C. and he spoke to reporters when doing so. And Donald Trump is going with. They were saying boo. Urns, who remembers the Simpsons episode Smithers? Are they booing me? No, sir. They're saying boom. Booms. Trump says, I think the reception I got was pretty good. They were very enthusiastic for. Did you see Mayor Mamdani at the game?
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Donald Trump
I did not know. What did you think of the reception you got from the Knicks fans? I thought great. I mean, I thought it was amazing, actually. You mean when they had the camera on me? I thought it was very good. Yeah, it was certainly amazing. It was, it was, I think mostly cheers. It was, it was loud and it was very enthusiastic.
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David Pakman
Yeah, it was mostly cheers. Just a reminder, this is what it sounded like when Donald Trump popped up on screen. So anyway, are we hearing mostly cheers in that? Let's get to some of the more substance, substantive elements of Donald Trump's discussion with reporters. And a sort of stunning moment. You know how a bird, a bird will sometimes be distracted if a shiny piece of tinsel blows by in the background and the bird, bang, loses the attention on whatever it's paying attention to and now is focused in on the tinsel. Donald Trump was distraught, distracted by Air Force One. And in the middle of talking to reporters, he goes, look at that plane. And how polished it is. His brain is mush. And a lot of discussion that Trump was fully sundowning at this point in
- [29:27]
Donald Trump
time and in respect for all that's gone before us.
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David Pakman
But it's inspiration for the future.
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Donald Trump
People come and see what America can be. You know, it's a little bit just sitting here talking or standing here and talking to you. And we have a lot of respect for a lot of the people before me. I know some of you very well. But take a look at that plane. See that plane? That's in perfect mint condition. Take a look at that. Look at that. Isn't that amazing? And everything should look that way. We work with the military. We do a real job. If you look at the polish, look at everything is, you know, beautiful. And that's the way we want DC
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David Pakman
the plane is so shiny. You think Sleepy Joe could shine up a plane like that? God know what, is he going to use a clay bar on the thing? Trump then shifted into one of his most common refrains, which is black person critical of Trump. They have a low iq. Why is it always the non white people where Trump goes, low iq, it's aoc, it's Jasmine Crockett, it's Maxine Waters, it's whoever. And here Trump is confronted with the reality that Stephen A. Smith, the sports journalist who is increasingly dipping his toes into political commentary, said, if the Knicks lose, Trump's getting blamed. And Trump goes, that's a low IQ guy.
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Donald Trump
It was, I think, mostly cheers. It was, it was loud and it was very enthusiastic.
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David Pakman
Mr. President, ESPN commentator Stephen A. Smith was, was talking about running for president,
- [30:56]
Brian Tyler Cohen
said he would blame you if the
- [30:58]
David Pakman
Knicks lost the game. How do you respond to that?
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Donald Trump
I think he's a nice guy, but you need a certain aptitude to run for president. You need a high iq. I'm not sure that Stephen has that. I don't think he does, actually.
- [31:12]
David Pakman
Low iq. He reflexively, you know, a lot of right wingers love to say, oh, you liberals, everything's racist and sexist to you guys. This show is different in the sense that we don't really hurl allegations of racism and sexism haphazardly on this program. It's just not a big part of the political analysis that I tend to do. But I don't really have any other explanation for why Donald Trump's reflexive attack on black women, Hispanic women, black men, is that they have a low iq. And he rarely applies that to just white men. And so is it overt racism? Is it implicit, illicit racism? I don't know, but it definitely seems that it is something that Donald Trump goes to. Donald Trump also complaining that the NBA has gotten a little bit left wing for him, but he still enjoyed the
- [32:03]
Donald Trump
game and he knows a lot about basketball. But it's, it's good, it's good for the game. It's a tougher game.
- [32:10]
David Pakman
The left wing stuff that they were getting criticized for.
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Donald Trump
Watch a little left wing, I think so it tends to be a little bit left wing wing. But it was, it's great entertainment. Great.
- [32:21]
David Pakman
It's left wing, but it's still fun. Then we get to hardcore politics. To the extent that Donald Trump is able to talk about politics and the issue of gas prices comes up. Now, I'll kind of frame this by reminding you that gas prices from 273A gallon, which is where they were in mid January, they went all the way up to 456 a gallon thanks to Trump's Iran war. And they've come off of that. We're at like 415 right now. So we are nowhere near the highs of a few weeks ago, but we're still over $4 a gallon. Massively blown up prices by Trump's standards, based on his commentary on gas prices while Joe Biden was president. But Trump goes the prices aren't really very high right now. Gas prices are kind of okay. Is there an oil or gasoline pricer in this conflict that prompt you to release more from the Strategic Petroleum?
- [33:19]
Donald Trump
Well, we are and we are releasing more from a lot of, a lot of oils coming out of the hormone strait. A lot of it is coming almost and if you notice, the price is not very high, relatively speaking. I mean, it's lower than during the Biden administration.
- [33:35]
David Pakman
So let's talk about that. And Trump loves to say this, gas prices really aren't that high. Here is a 10 year chart of gas prices. And of course it is true that during this global supply constraint, there was a very brief period during Biden's presidency where gas prices hit 5 bucks a gallon on average, 501 to be exact. That did not have anything to do with an optional war started by Joe Biden. And as you will see for the vast majority of Biden's presidency, gas prices were lower than than where they are right now in the 10 years that we're looking at on the screen. Other than that, Covid supply constraint peak, which was a global issue. Gas prices were highest a few weeks ago under Donald Trump because of his choice to start a war with Iran. But he's insisting to Americans gas prices really aren't that high right now. Run on that. I would love to see that turned into a campaign commercial. And if they don't want to run on it, Democrats should. Trump saying, I don't think about the financial situation of Americans when I make foreign policy decisions. Gas prices aren't really that high. It's peanuts. It doesn't matter. And then finally, you will be glad to know if you're worried about the fact that we're in week 15 of a three week war. TRUMP says we're only a couple days from a deal with Iran. He has said this more than a dozen times since March. Two or three days or two or three weeks.
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Donald Trump
Two or three days.
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David Pakman
You'll be signing a peace agreement.
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Donald Trump
No, we have a good chance of doing it. We should be able to do it in one hour. If you want to know the truth. I don't think there are any sticking points. I think we're very, we're, we're very close to having a very, very good, strong, powerful deal. If we go and bomb, which we can do very easily if we want, and we spend another two or three weeks bombing, they'll have nothing left whatsoever. Whatsoever. But you won't have the straight open for months. If we do the bombing, you know a lot of people are going to be killed. Who wants to do that? I don't. And we'll get, we'll have a signed document that's actually stronger than doing the bombing.
- [35:48]
David Pakman
There you go. We the most ended war in American history. The Iran war has ended eight or nine times now and it's two to three days from ending again. Week 15 by the way of the three week war. Most VPN companies sell privacy the way that diet pills sell confidence. A lot of marketing, not much proof. But the thing is that your data is constantly being tracked. That is why I like our sponsor, private Internet access. It is a VPN that is different because they've proven multiple times in court they are not logging your activity. When authorities have said turn over the logs, they don't have them because they don't keep them. And you can verify that for yourself. Because of their open source software, they will hide your IP address, encrypt your connection, protect your data, let you access content not always available in your region. It's easy to use. You turn it on with one click and that's it. You forget about it. Use it on unlimited devices with a single account, phone, tablet, TV, gaming console. Choose from servers you in more than 91 countries and it is optimized for lightning fast streaming and downloads. Right now you can get 83% off. That's just 203amonth plus four extra months for free at PIA. VPN.com/PACMAN the link is in the description Most scams do not feel random. Scammers may know your name, your city, a relative, where you work and suddenly the message you get sounds a lot more believable. And a lot of that information is found online and it's just sitting there waiting for bad actors to use it against you. This is why our sponsor Incogni works to remove all of that information from hundreds of websites and databases that have it so that scammers have nothing to work with. Incogni automatically sends removal requests to hundreds of sites that have your personal info. They will follow up again and again until it's gone. My favorite feature is custom removals. With the unlimited plan you find your info anywhere strange directory, obscure website, not on their master list of databases. You submit it a link in a screenshot and they will work to get it removed for you. Scammers and spammers can't bother you if they can't find you. And I am getting no spam calls anymore and I've always been using Incogni. I would recommend it to anybody. Go to incogni.com/pacman use the code PACMAN for 60% off the annual plan. The link is in the description I'm not the only person who's been put on this list of left wing lunatic media offenders by the Trump White House. My friend Brian Tyler Cohen is also on the list and he joined me to talk about this on a substack live. One of the most inspiring things about this entire fiasco is that it's proof that we are making a difference at the end of the day. And today we're going to get to the conversation in a moment. Today is our one day membership drive in order to bolster support for what may be a big legal battle with the Trump White House. If you didn't get the coupon code in your email today, or you just didn't get on my newsletter or for whatever reason you missed it and you want it, send me an email info@david pakman.com say David, give me that code. Listen to the conversation I had with Brian Tyler Cohen. Independent media is as targeted as it has ever been, but it is also as important as it has ever been. Let's take a look.
- [39:28]
Brian Tyler Cohen
David Pakman David, how was your weekend in the immediate aftermath of finding out that you were on this list.
- [39:37]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
You know, a lot of people know that this is a big deal, but not everybody is totally keyed in to exactly what it means. So I got a lot of very concerned messages from different people who were understand, they know that there's a problem here. They know this is an attack on the First Amendment. They know this is something to be very worried about. But they didn't know if this means, like, am I going to jail tomorrow? Do I immediately need a lawyer? Might the police show up? So it was. I mean, I think the good thing is there are a lot of people that understand that this is a direct attack on the only profession that is mentioned in the Constitution. And I think that even if. If the MAGA people have kind of said we don't care about that anymore, there are a lot of people that do.
- [40:20]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I think. I think this feels different from a lot of the other attacks that we've seen Trump make. And he's kind of gone one by one, right? We've seen him attack law firms, we've seen him attack universities, we've seen him attack legacy media outlets, tech CEOs. I mean, just the list goes on and on and on. Comedians have been the latest target of his Ireland. But something that I noticed pretty quickly with his attacks on content creators was the extent to which folks in this space really wore it as a badge of honor. I cannot tell you how many people have approached me, messaged me, called me, texted me, and told me that they wish they can get on this list. How do they get on this list? That would be the best thing for them. And I think if we're able to neutralize these attacks and show him, and show everybody in this White House that this is not something that's going to. That's going to chill speech or kind of suppress our voices or allow him to, you know, quell us into submission, that if we're instead able to capitalize off of this and grow our platforms off of this and redouble our efforts off of this and make our voices even louder, then this shows that, like, okay, maybe this isn't. Is not something I'm going to be able to deploy with any effectiveness. And that's kind of different from the rest of this whole ecosystem, because we have seen a lot of the rest of the ecosystem with the rest of the people that he's attacked because we did see so much capitulation. And all that did, in my opinion, was sent a message to Trump himself that, oh, this is how easy it is to get law firms to bend over backwards. For me, this is how easy it is to get major media conglomerates to pay me millions and millions of dollars. Shit, I'm gonna do it all day, I'm gonna do it tomorrow, and I'll go after the same people again and again and again, because they didn't buy themselves any goodwill with Trump. All they did was show him how weak they are. And so my goal here is to make this the complete opposite, to make it so that every time you put another content creator on that list, it is just the best thing that could have happened to that person. And it grows their platform, elevates their voice, and makes the same people that Trump was looking to quiet all the louder in their efforts to oppose this administration. I don't know if you've seen the same thing from your vantage.
- [42:34]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
I have. And it is, you know, there's one thing about this. And listen, we can talk about. I've already had some lawyers, First Amendment lawyers talk to me and say, listen, if they were going to take a next step, here's what it would be. And here's sort of like what you might incur as far as legal expenses, but depending on jurisdiction, we have a way to kind of that side of it. But step away from that for a second. There is an incredible change. Even if you go back to the last year of the Trump administration, the first Trump administration, where the proof that independent media is doing something is that this list exists. Because even as hostile as this administration was at the end of Trump's first term, and we saw what happened to Jim Acosta and we saw other examples, there was no real thought that then we were going to be on any list. And when Trump was, when Trump won and when he was being sworn in, I remember talking to you, and I did a substack live with Aaron Parnas and so many other people, and everybody had a feeling something is going to touch independent media, and we just didn't know exactly when or how. And I see it as proof of concept that we are making a difference, because it's, you know, if someone with no followers on Twitter responds to you, you don't put them on alist@whitehouse.gov Right. And so the fact that the list exists, to me, is proof that we're making a difference here.
- [43:55]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, look, I think that if nothing else, the fact that Trump is starting to compile an enemy's list of content creators is a testament to his weakness. His overall. We, um, this is not something that you're. That you do if you're acting from a position of strength. It's not something that you do if you think that you're effective, if you're being effective. When you start to target these people, us included, I think the goal here is to try and chill us into submission, is to show us, like, oh, now you're on this official list. Now maybe you'll think twice about the next time that you speak out. You don't need to do that if your presidency is going well. But obviously, we've seen the extent to which, you know, he's been flailing, and it's all an unforced error. It's all owed entirely to him. It's this guy's decision to have come into office after having promised that he would focus on lowering costs and. And lowering rent and housing and food. Groceries. That it. Grocery. It's an old word. You probably don't remember it, but it's.
- [44:51]
David Pakman
It's.
- [44:51]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
I didn't know it, actually. I was Newton.
- [44:53]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. I usually put them on the davenport, but. Yeah, we can talk about that later. And instead, this guy comes into office, immediately launches a trade war that raises the cost of everything, immediately cuts healthcare that obviously doesn't help people with their costs, cuts food assistance, starts a war that he promised he would never start, which raises the cost of gas to nearly its highest point ever. Doubles down on covering up the Epstein files. This is all owed entirely to his own actions. And so that's the bizarre part of all of this. It's like we're effective because we're calling out what's happening. But at the same time, instead of spending all of this energy and expending these resources trying to quell us into submission, there is another avenue, and that's just to do the things that he promised to do on the campaign trail. But he's just so fucking incapable of holding true to his own promises. And so instead, he's gonna act solely in the benefit of himself and his family and crusty Oval Office in gold. Build himself an arch and a ballroom and retrofit a Qatari jet to the tune of a billion dollars and raise his own net worth, $4 billion. He'll do all of those things because he can't help but not do them, and instead sic his underlings on people like us, because that's the only other option. Like, God forbid, actually governs in a way that he campaigned on. He's just not capable.
- [46:06]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
I think One other aspect to this is that, you know, he's done a fair bit of going after corporate and legacy media to some extent successfully when you think about the capitulation on, like the Stephanopoulos 16 million in these examples. But one of the things I think is interesting is trust in legacy and corporate media, for better or worse, is pretty low. There are a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum that don't really have the trust in corporate media that they used to. I think one of the things that scares the administration about the independent space
- [46:41]
David Pakman
is that we have a different sort
- [46:42]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
of relationship with our audiences. We're not whichever guy or gal is on the expensive set today. And they're kind of all interchangeable. There's a relationship that implies a different level of trust. And I think that that's something that they are cognizant of, because why else would this list exist?
- [47:00]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, it's also the one institution, and I'll call independent media an institution just for ease of discussing it, where we can't be leveraged by the federal government. Like Trump is able to exercise power over the Washington Post because its owner, Amazon, has, you know, Jeff Bezos has contract, you know, the government has contracts with aws. Amazon Web Services also needs approvals for, you know, his, his rocket ship company, I mean, Elon owns Twitter, has relationships with the federal government. CNN is. All of these news outlets are owned by these major media conglomerates because we've seen so much consolidation. But it allows the government to exercise its influence because otherwise they're not gonna get mergers approved. They're not gonna get the FCC approval that they need for, you know, Tegna and nexstar to merge. And ABC relies on that to get their local broadcasting across the country. And so the federal government is always able to at putting its thumb on the scale by virtue of the sheer size. And so it's, it's, it's this interesting paradox where you think that these institutions, these legacy media institutions are so big that they can actually withstand pressure from the federal government. But it is, it is expressly because they are so big that they're so susceptible to pressure by the federal government. And like, we don't have to deal with that. I'm owned by Nobody. I'm 100% reader and viewer supported. And so if I want to say something, I'm solely accountable to the people who subscribe, and that's it. And so there's no pressure that the federal government can exert over what I do and what I say. And you're in the exact same boat. And I think that that is a difficult position because the Trump administration has made such a. Has made such a concerted effort to
- [48:52]
Donald Trump
use
- [48:55]
Brian Tyler Cohen
the tools at their disposal to influence and pressure all of these major conglomerates to do whatever they want. And even worse, these conglomerates have been so willing to capitulate at every turn, but this is the one place where they just don't have the ability to do that. And so they only can lean on us with, like, with these, with these attacks on the First Amendment or just trying to scare us or chill us into submission.
- [49:20]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
And one of the things that's kind of interesting is we. If I got sued for a billion dollars and was given the opportunity to settle for 16 million, that's not something that we can go, yeah, let's do that.
- [49:32]
David Pakman
That sounds good.
- [49:33]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Totally.
- [49:33]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
So to, to the. For the better or worse of it, and not only to mention because our reputations ride on these circumstances differently than someone like a Paramount or whoever who's thinking, well, we've got a multibillion dollar merger and the 16 million is small potatoes compared to, for us, it would just be like, no, no, no, this is constitutionally protected speech. It is not defamatory. This is quite literally protected. The only choice we would have is to fight this thing to the very end. And that, I think, is also very different.
- [50:04]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, I mean, it's. You don't realize how dangerous it is to have all that funding. Like, if you are a CBS or an ABC News or a Meta or a Washington Post, any of these institutions that have settled with Trump in the past, having that kind of cash disposable not only shows Trump that you have it and so he can go for it, but when you inevitably settle because you have the ability to do so, it sends the message to him, like, again, look how easy this is. We don't have that option. And so the only option is to fight. And frankly, thank God, because these are easy battles to win. Like, there is no world in which ABC should have settled with Trump. There's no world in which CBS should have settled with Trump. The ABC lawsuit was over George Stephanopoulos discussing the fact that a judge had said that technically, by virtue of the definition of rape in New York, that Donald Trump was an adjudicated rapist by virtue of the words that the judge said. Now, he said it clumsily, and I think he said that the judge found Trump liable for sexual assault or for rape. I'm not sure. But in any case, it was certainly There was no malice intended. It was just a misreading of a pretty technical definition, something that would have gotten thrown out of court in a New York minute if this thing was actually challenged. But ABC viewed this as a way to just kind of curry some favor with Trump, to buy some favor with him, and so they just paid it. And that's a crazy thing to do. Not just because. Because it's such. It's such a laughable case, but again, because it emboldens Trump to think, oh, look how easy it is to. To dominate all of my enemies. And by the way, it's not like Trump stopped attacking ABC News after that. It's not like he said, okay, now we're buds. Now it's you and me versus the world. He was like, look how. Look how weak these people are. Look how easy it is for me to own these people. All I have to do is say I'm gonna sue them, and boom, I got 16 million bucks in my pocket. Let's do it again and again and again. And you're right, we don't have that. And so it's not as easy as for us to say it, but it also sends a message to Trump that, okay, this is a fight that we're gonna have to engage in because we have no choice. And. And this is a fight you're going to lose because these are just direct attacks on the First Amendment. They're so frivolous, and. And no judge would allow this to stand.
- [52:23]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
One of the things that is a little bit scary has been some of the reaction from some of the magazines I've been hearing from. And the context for this is, I've said for a long time, I don't want to engage in these debates about theoretical principles with a lot of these people, because as soon as it's inconvenient, they abandon the principles. We are against business regulation. We are for liberty. We are for this. That. The other thing. And right now, if you are genuinely a conservative First Amendment, whatever you should be saying. David, Brian, I may disagree with what you guys say, but there's no question that this is an attack. It's the government saying, hey, we don't like the speech of these people. Just this is one message that I got, David, from a right winger. David, how do you feel that yourself and your lover, Brian Tyler Cohen have been added to the White House list, et cetera, et cetera, where is like, hey, I disagree with what you say, but you have every single right to say it. And the government going after you is A direct violation of your free speech. I would respect some of these magas if they said that.
- [53:27]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, I mean, look, this was their rally cry for years and years and years. They had a whole subcommittee on the weaponization of government. They wanted to talk about censorship and freedom of speech for as long as I can remember that the Democrats were just trying to quell our ability. Quell your ability to be able to say what you want. And look, Joe Biden never made an enemies list of content creators. Joe Biden never sued a bunch of media outlets. Joe Biden never went after and tried to cancel. Comedians. Like, the things that Donald Trump has done really put on full display the extent to which all of these purported principles by these right wingers were window dressing. It was just something for them to complain about. But once their abstract principles were actually challenged, it became clear that they didn't care about this stuff. It was just. It was just something for them to say. It was just a bumper sticker that looked nice, but. But that they didn't actually have any intention of adhering to once push came to shove.
- [54:21]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
One of the things that has been kind of floated as a hidden way, like, if one of us gets sued for defamation, that's very clear, right? Like, this is a lawsuit. Here's what's in the lawsuit. We come to our audience as we tell them one of the scarier possibilities, and I hope that the platforms wouldn't. Wouldn't budge on this, is that pressure is applied to some of the platforms we're on, which, as I've said before, we're kind of publishing on rented ground in a sense, that it's platforms that are. That are putting our content on there, allowing it algorithmically, distributing it to a degree. Have you thought at all about how likely you think that is a tactic that the Trump administration might employ to quietly try to kneecap us?
- [55:03]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yes. I mean, I've always tried to diversify because I know that I'm on rented ground anyway. And I've seen the fluctuations, and I'm
- [55:12]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
sure you have, too.
- [55:13]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I mean, we've spoken about them. We've seen viewership go up and down on YouTube, certainly I've watched it go up and down on Facebook. I've watched pretty meteoric growth on Twitter until the day that Elon bought it. And I'm still at the exact same number of followers as the day Elon bought it. So, like, he stopped growth completely. And so. And so I know that I don't own any of these platforms. I think what's great about having our newsletter and being on substack is that we have the ability to reach people directly if and perhaps when Trump is effective at getting these social media platforms to suppress our voices. And so I would just ask for anybody who is not yet subscribe to my and David's channels and our substacks. If you do that, that's a great way for us to be able to reach you directly in the event that we're not able to reach you on any other platform. This is the most direct way of being able to talk to folks. I know that we're going to post this far and wide, but we'll include in the post description our links to our substacks, because, again, that's the best way to be able to. For us to reach you directly in the event that that happens. But, yeah, I mean, look, that's the nature of the beast, and it's certainly the nature of the beast during an administration where they have been shown, where they've been proven to apply pressure to any of these companies to get what they want. And I'm sure that, you know, Google has some business in front of the federal government where they can say, hey, we have a list of media offenders. And be a real shame if you lost out on xyz, because these people are able to still proliferate on your platform. And just something to think about, you know, I mean, these are the mob tactics that the Trump administration employs. And so I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if, if that's the. If that's the route they go. But, you know, I'm actually. I think. I think I'm actually not especially worried that that will happen. Perhaps naively, I'm using this opportunity as a moment to do again what I think so few of the other institutions that have been attacked have done, which is to, you know, make sure that I'm twice as lo. I remember when Paul Weiss, which was one of the law firms that capitulated, first decided to do so in deference to the Trump administration. And I was so mad. And it's not like I don't understand why they did it. It's certainly easier. It's certainly more financially beneficial for them to do it. And your job is your job. Their job is not to think about the safety of the broader ecosystem, the safety of other lawyers and other law firms. And so I get all of that logically, but I was still so mad. In effect, they make everybody less safe when they capitulate because, again, it sends a message to Trump that he can do whatever he wants with impunity, and all of these other major entities will capitulate. And so I just want to use this opportunity right now while the administration is going after us, to just say, like, great, go after us, I'll use my 15 minutes that I have right now to just show that it is a badge of honor again, to get other people interested in getting on this same list and to show him like, this is a space where your pressure, your attempts to pressure us are not going to work. And I want him to put other content creators on that list. And frankly, other content creators want to be put on that list. And, you know, that's my goal. Could bad things happen? Could the Googles of the world lean on us a little bit or suppress our voices in deference to this administration? Of course. But I think we have a rare opportunity where as we're in the spotlight right now, to send a message to this administration that, like, while that might have worked with these law firms and universities and tech CEOs, all of whom need something from Trump, we don't need anything from him, and it's not gonna work here. And he continues to amplify the profiles of people in this space at his own peril.
- [59:14]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
The other thing that I think is tangentially related but is part of the bigger picture is that for all of the talk about how big and strong an alpha, like we all talk about it, you know, they claim to be, the last four days have really been an exercise in snowflake dumb in the sense that they create this list going after people with disproportionately little power compared to the federal government. But the Kristen Welker interview, I'm thinking, I mean, follow up questions got him to step on a microphone and walk out of an interview. And we have a completely warped sense of what, what journalism really should be. And I was telling my audience, you know, in our, I watch a lot of Argentinian news in politics, this sort of tough questioning of elected officials is expected. If, if you don't do what Kristen Welker attempted to do before Trump ran away, there's like a, what are you doing? Are you do, are you even doing your job? But here's the key difference also. The elected officials expect it and they're ready for it. So many elected officials, and I don't want to make it partisan like Trump did it, sometimes Democratic elected officials will do it with me where we hear like, hey, they didn't like some of your questions. Some. The elected officials also expect that there is going to be serious journalism done. And there isn't an expectation that you go on and you get a softball interview. All of this reeks of what they call beta behavior, not terms that I use, but what they would call it.
- [60:35]
David Pakman
And this is a bigger problem.
- [60:36]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I think it really puts the hypocrisy on fold to play. I mean, I was just speaking a few minutes ago about, like, you know, this, this idea of when their principles are challenged, they're not actually gonna stand behind any of them. But you're exactly right. I mean, I mean, his whole thing is that he's a tough guy, a strong man, right? And you see these instances where any pushback, like the mildest pushback, hey, what's the proof of this election fraud that you keep talking about? Will send him into a tailspin. And so again, this is more. It's window dressing, it's the veneer of toughness, when in reality, this guy is as fragile a person as we've ever seen. And again, him putting us on this list is a testament to that. I think it was a miscalculation because all it's doing is drawing more attention to the work that we do. But I do think that there's a sense even among, like, these tough guy manosphere podcasters, that when you see that, and, you know, you see Kristen Welker questioning him and him, he is so incapable of being able to just answer a simple question. I mean, it's embarrassing. And if your whole reason for being on the Trump train was, like, this guy's strong compared to Democrats collective weakness, and like, this is what it looks like in the rare instance that he actually has to face challenging questions. I don't know how your entire worldview, especially as it pertains to Trump and Maga, doesn't immediately collapse. Because what's the foundation of it? That guy, the guy who can't give a single modicum of proof about the election fraud that he keeps claiming is occurring. Which, by the way, just as a quick aside, like the notion that there is election fraud because Spencer Pratt is not winning the LA mayoral race, like, this is.
- [62:18]
Donald Trump
This is.
- [62:19]
Brian Tyler Cohen
It's like the, the most liberal. It's like the liberal bastion of America. And you're upset that Spencer Pratt is not going to be the mayor of this city, like it is. It is not only completely baseless as it relates to the, to the election, theft, lies. It's also just devoid of any semblance of common sense. Why pick this city, Los Angeles, again, the cradle of progressivism. In America as. As the Hill to die on where. Because Spencer Pratt is not going to win the mayor or advance to the runoff for the mayor's race.
- [62:51]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
Not to mention he overperformed the polls like it. It's not even a situation where they could go, well, we thought he was polling 25 and he got 6. He overperformed the polls because some of those lower candidates who were polling three, four essentially got zero. And so he actually did better than was expected. It just wasn't enough to win, obviously. Listen, Brian, it is a new. It's. It's a whole new era, I believe at this point for independent media. We've got important elections coming up. As you mentioned, we really only own our data on substack. And so I do encourage people we don't know what will happen with other platforms. Hopefully nothing. But we'll be able to communicate with people if they are subscribers on substack. So I encourage everybody to do that. Subscribe to Brian and I won't take up more of your time from a very busy day. I'm sure it's busy every day like it is with me.
- [63:38]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I have. I have a lot of media offending to do.
- [63:43]
Donald Trump
Exactly.
- [63:43]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I'm sure you do as well. Just want to thank everybody here, not just for tuning in and taking some time out of your day, but also supporting the work that we do as independent creators. You know, we don't have like a major media conglomerate behind us if bad things happen or if we're threatened by a federal government that has no shortage of resources. So really, I mean, it is everybody here's support, whether financial or just your eyeballs, that really makes what we do possible. So just wanted to just give a shout out to everybody here for, especially in this moment, backing, backing the work that we do and showing some support for, for this space that I think is especially important, 100%.
- [64:24]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
Brian, I'll talk to you soon.
- [64:26]
Brian Tyler Cohen
David, thanks so much. See you, man.
- [64:27]
Guest or Co-host (possibly Aaron Parnas)
All right, take care. Bye.
- [64:29]
David Pakman
A lot of people put on music while they work, assuming it helps them concentrate. But in practice, familiar songs, lyrics or constantly changing tracks often will take attention away from what you're working on, rather than supporting attention. And that's where Brain FM comes in. Our sponsor, Brain fm, is a music app designed to support focus, relaxation or sleep with music. Created by human musicians working alongside neuroscientists. Instead of generic playlists, Brain FM offers task specific modes like deep work, creative and motivation, depending on what you're trying to do. What makes Brain FM different is the science behind it because it's the only music app funded by the National Science foundation based on their unique audio technology designed to influence brain activity associated with Focus. Brain FM also has published peer reviewed research showing their technology supports attentional performance. They even have an optional ADHD mode for people who benefit from additional stimulation. But the app really is built for anybody looking to reduce distractions and stay engaged with their work. You can try Brain FM totally free for 30 days by going to Brain FM Pacman. 30 days is a long free trial. Go check it out. The link is in the description Was Donald Trump's meltdown during his interview with Kristen Welker a medical event more than it was just a tantrum? This is a story that's now growing. The Bulwark has a piece suggesting it and others are talking about it. There is an argument that when you look at this interview that took place on Sunday during which Donald Trump stormed out, he looked ill, he was swollen, he was sweaty, that it was not simply Trump angry at another female reporter for follow up questions, he was angry at her for that, but that there is also a potential medical layer to this. Now let me remind you what happened. It was a full interview. We did a big review yesterday and here is Trump storming out.
- [66:38]
Donald Trump
I won an election in a landslide And I got 94% bad press. But Mr. President, you know why I got that present? Because you have no credibility.
- [66:46]
David Pakman
But you've never presented evidence that it was rigged. Let's keep talking about. I want to talk about Todd, you
- [66:50]
Donald Trump
have more evidence, there's more evidence than ever presented. Let's talk your elections in this country. We're like a third world country. Your elections are crooked and you're crooked and Meet the Press is crooked and so is crooked ABC And CBS and CNN, Mr. President, one sided crooked network. So let's call it quits because I've had enough. Thank you darling. Have a good time.
- [67:14]
Ron DeSantis
Mr. President, let's please. I can traveled all the way to Wisconsin. I've traveled all I know.
- [67:20]
Donald Trump
I'm an hour on and off in the rain and I've given you enough time. You ought to straighten out your press because you know what? A country can never be great travel with a dishonest.
- [67:31]
Ron DeSantis
We travel all the way to Wisconsin for this interview.
- [67:36]
David Pakman
Then the stepping on the microphone and a loud sploink. So the argument basically goes like this. This up Trump's the oldest president ever turns 80 in a few days. We have a growing list of unexplained medical phenomena. We've got the Bruising on both hands. No believable explanation has been put forward. We've got visible swelling in his legs. We've got a neck rash with an unexplained treatment that we were told, don't worry about it. It's no big deal. We've got multiple medical visits. We've got multiple dental visits. We've got this bizarre episode where last year, the press, rather the press secretary, talked to us for months about an MRI that Trump got. And it turns out, turns out he didn't have an mri. He actually had a CT scan. And it still wasn't really clear why he had it and what doctors were looking for. So we've got this complete and total lack of transparency, very little information from the White House. So we're left to figure it out. And then in comes this interview, and Donald Trump got angry. Oh, that's all that this was. Well, hold on a second. Second here. Trump walking out in a tantrum is only a part of the entire thing, but it does make sense to consider the entirety of the interview. And if you look at the whole interview, Trump was extraordinarily confused about the subject matter. His answers were rambling and incoherent. His answers were often not responsive to the questions that were being asked past. Trump was struggling to connect his words as they came out of his mouth to the subject matter of the questions. He was disinhibited. He was irritable. Now, I am not interested in pursuing unfounded conspiracy theories. I wasn't even really going to talk about this angle because we've kind of addressed it before. Generally, the general concept would be, listen, we don't know exactly what Trump is dealing with. There seems to be some kind of decline, certainly as measured objectively by his diminished vocabulary and repetition of phrases and words relative to two years ago, five years ago, 10 years ago. The decline in Trump's vocabulary exceeds the changes we've seen even in Biden's vocabulary while he was president. Kamala Harris is comparing during the campaign to prior. Okay, so we've got these objective measures, measures. And so the general assessment would be something like, without knowing exactly what's up with Trump, there seems to be a disinhibition, which can be a symptom of some types, types of cognitive decline, dementia, Alzheimer's. We have a quickness to anger and blaming others and a frustrated demeanor that sometimes can be associated with those conditions. It also could just be Trump's personality. The lack of transparency means we don't totally know, but we suspect something. Bigger is going on. And so one interpretation of this interview, if you look only at Trump getting mad and walking out, would be he just, you know, he gets angry with female reporters, the follow up questions. He expects everybody to be friendly. He got mad. He's an arrogant egomaniac and he left. All right, and that may be it. But it is interesting to see that the Bulwark wrote a piece about it and many others are speculating and talking about. Is the entire episode in context, including its culmination with Trump walking out, more indicative of the disinhibition, tendency to irritation, etc. That has been a growing problem for Trump combined with his inability to effectively express himself? I don't know the answer and I wouldn't even be talking about it today were it not for the fact that a lot of people noticed this exact same thing. Tell me what you think. Do you see this as the result of Trump just resenting serious questions from female reporters, or do you see the entire bizarre episode as actually part of the symptomatic framework of whatever it is Trump is suffering from, which they continue not to be upfront with us about. J.D. vance glitched out on Fox News. I think this Fox News interview is an example of why Donald Trump suspects J.D. vance can't do it. This J.D. vance interview with Jesse Watters on Fox News, yes, it's an embarrassment to JD Himself. It's a reminder of his total lack of charisma and gravitas and ability to communicate effectively. But if you're Trump and you're thinking of your heir, apparently who's going to replace you once you're gone? You don't like to see this. Here is JD Saying why can't Democrats just find normal candidates? And listen for the completely disingenuous laugh from JD he's genuinely terrible at this.
- [72:20]
J.D. Vance
So offensive. Because some of these guys are riding around in Bentleys and Maseratis and the American taxpayer, you got to take it from me, they, they are livid about this kind of stuff. The midterm elections right around the corner. The Democrats have nominated Talarico and Platner to win back men. Mr. Vice President, is that going to work?
- [72:49]
David Pakman
I got to get. I should start laughing like that. What a disingenuous.
- [72:56]
J.D. Vance
Is that going to work? I'm probably the worst person to ask how the Democrats can win votes, Jesse. But look what I my free political advice to Democrats is very simple. It's just elect, nominate normal human beings. Don't run on men playing in women's sports, don't run on letting illegal immigrants flood our country.
- [73:21]
David Pakman
And by the way, who's running on that? I don't know anybody.
- [73:24]
J.D. Vance
And don't let run on letting fraudsters in Minnesota take advantage of the American taxpayer pair. And you guys would do a lot better. I don't know why Democrats can't just find normal, well adjusted candidates, whether men or women. I think they would do a lot better. But I'm not complaining, Jesse, because I do think it puts our party, my party, in a much better position.
- [73:45]
David Pakman
Yeah, Democrats should find normal candidates coming from a guy who works for Donald Trump and whose administration includes, includes RFK Jr potentially was going to include Matt Gaetz. Trump nominated Matt Gaetz to be ag crashed and burned, Stephen Miller and a cabinet that is generating headlines every single day. That sounds like satire. So Trump spends a decade insulting judges, prosecutors, military leaders, election workers, former staff, sometimes even current staff, allies, enemies, and occasionally even his own supporters. And JD goes, we need someone. Rather, Democrats need someone who's well adjusted. Using an extraordinarily weird definition, I guess, of what it means to be well adjusted. You can only take seriously JD's argument if you completely ignore who leads JD Vance's party right now. Imagine saying, why can't Democrats nominate normal people while standing under a proverbial image of Donald Trump. What on earth is he talking about? He then gets into election stuff and jd, who again, he's just terrible at this. He goes, it's really shady what California is doing with the votes. California is counting all legal ballots. That's what they're doing. That's shady now. I thought that's what you guys wanted.
- [75:11]
J.D. Vance
Not sure how closely you've been following this. They are still counting the votes.
- [75:16]
David Pakman
Votes.
- [75:17]
J.D. Vance
Do you trust this election? Fundamentally. The problem here with this whole thing is how is it that you had, you know, Karen Bass was in first place, Spencer Pratt was in second place, and then this other woman was in third place. You would expect these mail in ballots to kind of meet that same basic pattern where, you know, number one would get the most votes, number two would get the second most votes and so on. But somehow we find ourselves in a situation where, number one, they're still receiving ballots. Not just counting ballots, Jesse, they're still receiving ballots. And number two, the way that they're coming in just so happens to work out such that the Republican is getting kicked out of the final two. So it's a Democrat versus Democrat runoff. That seems pretty shady to me, especially when you add on top of the fact that in California, you are prohibited from asking for somebody's identification before they vote.
- [76:11]
David Pakman
Okay, so listen, the situation that they're describing in California, they're upset about because their right wing candidates aren't doing well in California. This is not unique to when there is a Republican candidate. What I mean is this time they had some Republican candidates, Steve Hilton for governor and Spencer Pratt for mayor, that got more attention than Republicans in California tend to get. And so now they're going, look, this is what's happening in California. It's so sketchy and it's meant to target these Republicans. This is the way it always is in California. Should it be changed? Maybe. Do we have evidence of fraud? We don't. Is this the way it's been for every election cycle for a really long time? Yes, it is. And what's remarkable is that JD doesn't explain why counting legally cast ballots is shady. JD Vance doesn't present any evidence that illegal ballots are being counted. California counts ballots after election Day because California law allows ballots to arrive later if they were legally cast by the deadline. Those are their rules. Those are their rules whether Spencer Pratt is on the ballot or not. Those are the rules whether Steve Hilton is on the ballot or not. And the complaint always seems to be Democrats gain votes when the counting continues. That's because different groups of voters are counted at different times, not because votes are being invented. And by the way, Republicans have spent six years now telling their voters voting by mail is less reliable. Voting by mail is not the ideal way to do it, even though Trump votes by mail. And so they are part of the reason why the votes by mail in an incredibly blue state, lean bluer than the totality of the electorate. That's it. And they never apply this standard consistently. Nobody complain. By the way, there are times when late arriving ballots help Republicans. There are races in other states where that's the case case. They never complain in those scenarios. And so the logic is we thought this election was legitimate when it looked like our candidates were doing better. When they started to do worse, all of a sudden we said something shady is going on. Democracy requires counting votes. If you have evidence that invalid or illegal votes are being counted presented, they never have that evidence. And final thought before we go to the last clip of JP Mandela, at the end of the day, both the gubernatorial results and the mayoral results are very much in line with what the polling was. In fact, Spencer Pratt in L. A Mayor, as I spoke about with Brian Tyler Cohen in our in our chat, overperformed the polling. Pratt did better than he was expected to do. And they still want you to believe that there is some kind of fraud going on. All right, last clip from JD he says Trump has delivered on so many of his promises that Republicans have a really good shot in November. Oh boy.
- [78:54]
J.D. Vance
If you go back historically, even when the country's been doing very well, midterms are pretty bad for the country, for the party that's, that's in power. But I think we have a great chance, number one, because the president has delivered on so many of his core campaign promises. But number two, it's because the Democrats can't seem to nominate normal people to ask for the American people's vote.
- [79:16]
Donald Trump
Maybe.
- [79:16]
David Pakman
There you go. I am thinking to myself, which promises are those? Let's see. Well, no. Trump delivered on the promise of no new wars. Whoops, he didn't. Trump delivered on the promise of energy prices will be down 50% very quickly. Nope. Trump delivered on the promise of he will end the Ukraine, Russia war within minutes, hours, days. No, he's been in office 500 days. Which promises has Donald Trump actually kept to every administration claims accomplishments. That's not unusual. The question isn't do accomplishments exist? It's why is Vance switching to these broad slogans instead of providing specific examples? Because he has none. If the accomplishments were so obvious and so overwhelming, it should be easy to name them. And it's notable how often this messaging style relies on 100% confidence, 0% details. I would love to see some details, but we get nothing run. And all three of these clips of JD Depend on the same thing. Declare that your side is the normal side and everybody else is kind of weird to declare that your opponents are suspicious. The people counting the votes are suspicious. The people running in November are suspicious. The the people that Democrats are nominating are suspicious. And then third, say that you've won. We have the normal candidates, so we've won on that. That we don't cheat when it comes to counting ballots. So really Spencer Pratt and Steve Hilton won. And we're also going to win in November because we've got the right candidates. The audience is expected to accept this crap without spending time on the details because they don't have any details. And JD Is just not good at this. We have a phenomenal bonus show for you today. Today is our one day membership drive that we've been talking about. The White House is coming after me. We're doing a membership drive. 5 half price memberships today only. If you miss the coupon code, if you miss the email, if you miss the special and you want it, just email me infoavidpakman.com say David, I'd love that code. I missed the code. Send me the code and we will get it to you.