The David Pakman Show – "Trump Confidant Caught Spilling the Beans"
Date: December 17, 2025
Host: David Pakman
Guest: Sarah Matthews, former Trump Deputy Press Secretary
Episode Overview
This episode of The David Pakman Show centers on a bombshell Vanity Fair exposé featuring Susie Wiles, Donald Trump’s chief of staff. The show breaks down Wiles' candid (and damning) remarks about Trump's impulsivity and leadership, the resulting Republican fallout, attempts to manage the narrative, and questions about Trump's health and cognitive state. Through commentary, clips, and an illuminating interview with Sarah Matthews, the episode paints a picture of growing cracks within Trumpworld.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Susie Wiles Vanity Fair Bombshell
- Summary: Trump’s chief of staff, Susie Wiles, participated in 11 recorded interviews with Vanity Fair, the first two of which have been published. Her comments reveal wide-ranging concerns about Trump’s decision-making, management style, and inner circle dysfunction.
- Major Revelations from Wiles:
- Trump has an “alcoholic’s personality” and acts on impulse, believing there’s "nothing he can’t do." (06:00)
- She is often the only "force" guiding Trump’s whims—though Pakman questions her effectiveness.
- Tariffs and internal disagreements: Advisors "adapt to Trump" rather than challenge him; tariff decisions were "more painful than expected."
- Trump’s pardons for January 6 defendants: Wiles was initially skeptical but "got on board" (citing easily disprovable rationales about time served).
- On Elon Musk: Describes him as an "avowed ketamine user" and "odd duck," living chaotically, even sleeping in federal buildings.
- Trump’s ignorance about agencies: Trump "doesn’t know and never will understand" key agencies like USAID.
- On US citizen child deportations (including a cancer patient): Wiles "can't understand" how such mistakes happen.
- On Trump’s behavior in cabinet meetings: "He’s not asleep, just has his eyes closed, head leaned back."
- Confirms Trump’s presence in the Epstein file, but minimizes implications.
- Admits Trump lied about Clinton’s Epstein Island visits.
- Trump’s relationship with Putin: There was "a real sort of friendship... at least an admiration."
- Key Theme: Even Trump loyalists admit to alarming dysfunction and chaos, while still somehow remaining personally loyal.
Quote:
"Donald Trump has an alcoholic's personality and operates with the belief that there's nothing he can't do. Nothing, zero, nothing."
— David Pakman recapping Susie Wiles (05:35)
2. Republican Clean-Up & Narrative Management
- GOP Response: Attempts are made to spin the Vanity Fair story as “words out of context.” Wiles herself, and key spokesperson Caroline Levitt, allege bias and “disingenuous reporting,” but do not dispute the accuracy or substance of the quotes.
- Caroline Levitt's Defense: Both in press briefings and on Fox News, Levitt accuses the media of bias, omitting positive statements, and taking words out of context, but fails to explain what context would materially change the revelations' meaning.
Quotes:
"This is unfortunately another example of disingenuous reporting where you have a reporter who took the chief of staff's words wildly out of context..."
— Caroline Levitt (10:38)
"They don't say the reporting is wrong... They just argue that context is missing. This is a really common trend in authoritarian regimes..."
— David Pakman (13:56)
Memorable Moment:
Pakman lampoons the defense by asking rhetorically:
"What context would change whether or not Elon Musk is using ketamine? What context would change whether Trump is making major consequential decisions on a whim?" (17:16)
3. Signs of Trump's Decline & GOP Fractures
a. Trump's Reaction to Death
- Pakman analyzes Trump’s changing social-emotional responses:
- 2020 (upon learning of Ruth Bader Ginsburg's death): Expressed empathy, restraint.
- 2025 (on Rob Reiner’s and his wife's murder): Posts a cruel, mocking Truth Social message, later defends it without embarrassment, calling Reiner deranged.
- Insight: Pakman links this to classic cognitive decline symptoms – loss of inhibition, emotional flattening, inability to course-correct.
Quote:
"Cognitive decline first shows up as a loss of social judgment and emotional regulation... That’s what we’re seeing here."
— David Pakman (30:56)
b. Republican Pushback
- Growing Republican discomfort: Rep. Don Bacon calls Trump’s post on Rob Reiner "ugly" and "behavior beneath the presidency."
Quote:
"This comments on Mr. Reiner, they were just ugly... Not the president of the United States."
— Rep. Don Bacon (64:30)
- Growing permission for Republicans to openly criticize Trump: Conservative forums and Republican electeds increasingly acknowledge problems with Trump's judgment.
4. War Crime Cover-Up Allegations
- Context: Trump's Pentagon refuses to release video of a controversial "double tap" boat strike, which could constitute a war crime if it targeted survivors.
- Pakman’s Analysis: The administration claims “classified information,” despite regularly declassifying similar content — clearly withholding the "only" footage that would clarify if laws were broken.
Quote:
"This is not standard. This is selective and unusual. This is how you hide misconduct. If it was clean, justified, and lawful, prove it by releasing the footage."
— David Pakman (24:26)
5. Sarah Matthews Interview: The Insider Perspective
a. Trump Health Secrecy
- Matthews: Trump's White House lied, even to insiders, about health issues (e.g., COVID-19). She describes desperate press shop attempts to spin or conceal, and the extreme secrecy around Trump’s current visible ailments (e.g., bruised, bandaged hands).
- On the current situation:
"I know firsthand the White House is willing to lie about his health… There’s definitely more to the story here. There is some sort of cover-up going on, for sure."
— Sarah Matthews (38:30)
b. On Wiles/Vanity Fair & Loyalty
- Matthews: Wiles' quotes are so well documented, there’s no denying them; the GOP’s focus on “context” signals helplessness.
- Publicly, the White House backs Wiles and blames Vanity Fair. Privately, some are likely wondering "what was she thinking?"
"It’s all on tape. There’s no way she can deny the authenticity of the quotes..."
— Sarah Matthews (48:09)
c. Fracturing Republican Loyalty
- Matthews notes: Failures to deliver on campaign promises are eroding the “hold your nose and vote for Trump” logic.
"When you’re failing to deliver on those things, it becomes a lot harder for Republicans to ignore the obvious character flaws..."
— Sarah Matthews (55:00)
d. 2028 GOP Prospects
- Matthews gives her take on future GOP stars, expressing doubts about J.D. Vance and hope for figures like Utah Gov. Spencer Cox as a more civil, moderate alternative.
6. Fox News Disarmed by Economic Reality
- Jessica Tarlov destroys Fox’s attempts to tout Trump’s economy: She cites jobs data showing an anemic 17,000 jobs per month, high youth unemployment, and 700,000 more Americans out of work year over year.
- Pakman explains: These numbers signal a weakening economy, directly contradicting the "job creator" narrative.
Quote:
"You need 100,000 jobs a month to keep up with population growth... and we’re adding 17,000."
— David Pakman (70:16)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Highlight | |-----------|-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:35 | Pakman | “Donald Trump has an alcoholic's personality and operates with the belief that there's nothing he can't do…” | | 10:38 | Levitt | "[This is] disingenuous reporting... took the chief of staff's words wildly out of context..." | | 13:56 | Pakman | "They just argue context is missing. This is common in authoritarian regimes..." | | 18:52 | Pakman | “What context would change whether Elon Musk is using ketamine?” | | 24:26 | Pakman | "This is how you hide misconduct. If the second strike was clean, justified, and lawful, prove it...” | | 30:56 | Pakman | "Cognitive decline… loss of social judgment and emotional regulation... that’s what we’re seeing here." | | 38:30 | Matthews | “I know firsthand the White House is willing to lie about his health… There’s definitely more to the story.” | | 48:09 | Matthews | “It’s all on tape. There’s no way she can deny the authenticity of the quotes...” | | 55:00 | Matthews | "When you’re failing to deliver, it becomes harder for Republicans to ignore the character flaws..." | | 64:30 | Don Bacon | "This comments on Mr. Reiner they were just ugly... Not the president of the United States." | | 70:16 | Pakman | “You need around 100,000 jobs a month to keep up with population growth... [now] 17,000... that's disastrous”|
Important Segments & Timestamps
- Susie Wiles Vanity Fair Bombshell Analysis: 03:00–10:30
- Caroline Levitt’s Narrative Spin & Fox News Appearance: 10:30–19:30
- Trump’s Change in Death Reactions & Cognitive Decline: 27:35–31:00
- Discussion of War Crime Video Withholding: 23:50–27:30
- Sarah Matthews Interview (White House Secrecy, Susie Wiles, GOP Future): 34:43–62:31
- Don Bacon (GOP Critiques Trump Over Rob Reiner Comments): 64:30–66:30
- Fox News Panel Economically Debunked by Tarlov: 69:48–71:30
Overall Tone and Style
- Pakman’s tone: Analytical, relentless, occasionally sardonic, with sharp fact-based takedowns.
- Guest tone (Matthews): Honest, reflective, and critical; expresses a sense of regret over her tenure but hope for party reform.
Summary for New Listeners
This episode offers a comprehensive look into the unraveling facade of Trumpworld. Internal leaks, growing Republican dissent, and exposed dysfunction reveal a party in disarray. The host and his guest, leveraging both public reporting and insider knowledge, show that not only are Trump and loyalists struggling to manage damaging revelations—but the party’s machinery is increasingly unable to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Key themes include the dangers of impulsivity in leadership, the perils of unchecked loyalty, the ease with which narrative defenses collapse when faced with facts, and growing calls—even from within the GOP—for accountability and reform.