What happens to Trump voters when Trump is gone?

Summary

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The David Pakman Show — Episode Summary

Episode: "What happens to Trump voters when Trump is gone?"

Date: April 24, 2026
Host: David Pakman

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Overview

This episode tackles the critical but often avoided question: What becomes of Trump’s voters when Donald Trump is no longer politically relevant? David Pakman explores the societal, ethical, and political consequences facing the tens of millions who steadfastly supported Trump over potentially 14 years. The episode also examines recent glaring examples of nepotism and corruption, pitfalls of narrative-building in a troubled economy, and features biting moments from media appearances that showcase cracks within the MAGA base and failures in right-wing argumentation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Happens to Trump Voters? Forgiveness, Exile, or Reintegration?

[00:00–07:57]

• Major Question: What should society do with tens of millions of Trump voters once Trump is out of the picture?

  • Not referring to officials or media figures: Focus is on ordinary voters—neighbors, relatives, coworkers.

• Views on Reintegrating Trump Voters:

  • Hardline: Some equate them to “the modern KKK”—no road back.
  • Leniency: Others believe they were duped and should be welcomed if they change.
  • Pakman’s Middle Ground:
    • Exiling 30% of the country is unworkable and bad for democracy.
    • Ignoring or absolving their support risks history repeating with a smarter, more effective authoritarian figure.

• Analogy to Smoking and Cults:

  • Leaving the “cult” is always a positive, but you can't erase the damage.
  • Quote:
    “It’s never too late to stop being part of something destructive. It’s never too late to try to become a force for good, pro-democracy, reject corruption, reject authoritarianism. And people who are willing to do that should be welcomed. But we don’t erase the past. We learn from it.” (David Pakman, 05:49)

• Conditions for Reintegration:

  • Must acknowledge what happened—no rewriting history, no “I always had doubts” unless true.
  • Intellectual honesty and some form of accountability required, even if informal.
  • The real risk is repetition, but with a more polished future demagogue.

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2. Eric Trump & Open Nepotism in Pentagon Contracts

[07:57–12:57]

• News Item: Eric Trump secures a $24 million Pentagon contract in robotics despite zero experience.

  • Maria Bartiromo interviews Eric Trump—his justifications involve buzzwords but little substance.
  • Pakman’s take: This is textbook nepotism and corruption.
    • Eric got involved only after his father’s presidency and leverages the Trump name for profit.
    • Republicans, who claim to care about fraud and waste, are silent.

• National Security Angle:
  “When contracts for the Pentagon are influenced by connections instead of capability and competence, that is a national security issue. Trump is a national security issue. Eric Trump is a national security issue.” (David Pakman, 11:42)

• Larger Solution:
  A serious anti-corruption platform could peel support from MAGA voters. Corruption transcends party, and Americans are motivated to stop it.

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3. Trump’s Collapsing Approval & Eroding Base

[15:26–21:18]

• Polling Data:

  • Trump’s approval at a historic low of 32% (down from 43% a year prior); 63% disapprove.
  • Economic confidence is dismal even among Trump’s own supporters:
    • Only 18% of his supporters believe the economy will improve in the next year.
    • 52% of supporters expect it to worsen.
    • “Among Trump’s supporters, fewer than one in five expect the economy to be better a year from now.” (David Pakman, 18:39)
  • 79% say economy is “bad, very bad or terrible”; 60% wrongly think we’re in a recession.

• Political Consequences:

  • Democrats favored to take the House, Senate is a toss-up.
  • “Collapsing economic confidence, pessimism about the future—presidencies end up in big trouble when these are the parameters.” (David Pakman, 20:40)

• Call to Action:

  • Emotional dissatisfaction needs to be translated into votes for real change.

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4. Debunking Hate Preachers: Tim Miller & Wahaja Ali’s Media Showdown

[21:16–28:12]

• Segment: Tim Miller (former Republican operative) confronts a “hate pastor” on the Piers Morgan show.

  • Miller refuses to recognize the pastor, citing his rhetoric as antithetical to Christian teachings.
    • Quote:
      “You hate everybody. You attack black people, gay people, immigrants…your book...talking about how much you love bad words.” (Tim Miller, 22:48)
  • Wahaja Ali joins, reinforces the point by listing the pastor’s regressive positions and lack of true Christian compassion.

• David’s Commentary:

  • Religious titles should not shield people from criticism when their actions are harmful.
  • Miller and Ali’s forthrightness prevents rhetorical obfuscation.

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5. The “Golden Age” of the Economy?

[30:08–36:44]

• Right-wing Narrative:

  • Kevin Hassett (Trump’s economic adviser) attempts to declare the current economy a “golden age,” citing falling prices on volatile grocery items.
  • Pakman picks apart the cherry-picked data.
    • “He’s trying to declare a golden age into existence by repeating that it’s a golden age before anybody feels one.” (David Pakman, 34:31)

• Truth Social and Gaslighting:

  • Hassett claims Trump’s Truth Social posts offer “clear guidance”—Pakman calls this gaslighting, pointing to the erratic, self-contradictory nature of Trump’s posts.

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6. Republican Deflection: Mike Lawlor’s MSNBC Meltdown

[36:44–43:10]

• Moment:

  • Congressman Mike Lawlor, faced with questions about Trump’s Iran war on MS Now, pivots repeatedly to Obama and Libya, avoiding the actual issue at hand.
  • Katie Tur (anchor) insists on focusing on the present and refuses the detour.

• Pakman’s Analysis:

  • “Whenever the question is Iran now… they go, what about Obama and Libya? What about it? How about Trump?” (David Pakman, 41:50)
  • Highlights the failure of right-wing whataboutism and importance of journalistic persistence.

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7. Listener Feedback: On Opinion, Decline, and Media Literacy

[43:45–54:56]

• Feedback Segment:

  • David responds to audience messages, some supportive, some critical.
    • Example: A listener discovers the show is an opinion show, not news. David praises this as basic but important media literacy.
    • Others critique foreign policy stances or claim show is “circling the drain”—David responds with humor and facts.

• On “Deprogramming” MAGA Voters:

  • Story from a former Republican who credits Pakman’s show for shifting perspective—used as proof that independent media can reach across ideological divides.

• Truth vs. Talking Points:

  • Debunking common right-wing tropes (e.g., gas prices under Trump vs. Biden).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Trump Voters’ Future:
  “I don’t think we can build a functioning society where 30% of the country is exiled from polite society. But… we also can’t pretend that nothing happened.” (David Pakman, 04:36)

• On Accountability:
  “It’s never too late to stop being part of something destructive. …But we don’t erase the past. We learn from it.” (David Pakman, 05:43)

• On Nepotism:
  “When contracts for the Pentagon are influenced by connections instead of capability and competence, that is a national security issue.” (David Pakman, 11:42)

• On Narrative-Building:
  “He’s trying to declare a golden age into existence by repeating that it’s a golden age before anybody feels one.” (David Pakman, 34:31)

• On Religious Titles as Shields:
  “The title pastor is being used as a shield by a lot of these hate preachers…Miller and Ali ignore the shield.” (David Pakman, 25:57)

• On Listener Media Literacy:
  “We should praise that! A lot of people can't tell the difference [between news and opinion].” (David Pakman, 44:14)

• On Deprogramming:
  “Common Sense Tony is proof in the pudding that this sort of content does help to deprogram people.” (David Pakman, 52:53)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–07:57 — Main monologue: What to do about Trump voters post-Trump.
• 07:57–12:57 — Eric Trump’s Pentagon contract and analysis of nepotism.
• 15:26–21:18 — Trump’s approval collapse and implications for 2026/2028.
• 21:16–28:12 — Media confrontation with a hate pastor: Tim Miller & Wahaja Ali.
• 30:08–36:44 — Economic narrative battles: “Golden Age” claims dissected.
• 36:44–43:10 — Republican whataboutism on Iran war (Mike Lawlor/Katie Tur clip).
• 43:45–54:56 — Listener feedback, defense of show’s mission, and “deprogramming” stories.

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Tone & Language

Consistently sharp, fact-based, and direct, with a mix of biting sarcasm and earnest political analysis. Personal stories, analogies, and pop culture references keep the commentary lively and relatable, with moments of both humor and gravitas.

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Conclusion

This episode is a thoughtful but unsparing look at the collective reckoning ahead for American society as the Trump era wanes. It pushes for accountability without alienation, calls out corruption regardless of party, and provides both hope and caution about the long arc of political influence.

A must-listen for anyone curious about the real opportunities and dangers embedded in post-Trump America.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Today we are asking a question that a lot of people do not want to touch, but I believe we have to touch it. What happens to the Trump voters when Trump is over? Do we forgive? Do we forget? Do we draw a line? We will talk about it. We will also look at a stunning example of obvious corruption and nepotism right out in the open. Eric Trump, with no background in robotics whatsoever, has landed a $24 million Pentagon contract. Republicans say nothing. Also today, Trump's approval hits a historic low. The numbers underneath are even worse, including cracks within his base. And we're going to look at a brutal takedown of a so called pastor who just spreads hate. And the moment a Republican fell apart when asked a simple question. Also, would you consider this the golden age of the economy? Are things as good right now as they have ever been? I'm going to show you the mental gymnastics behind that claim. What a show. Today I say we record this one rather than immediately deleting it like we sometimes do. What on earth do we do with this? The Trump supporters, once Donald Trump is gone? We have to figure it out now, at some point, whether it's sooner or

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

later or kind of soon or, you

[David Pakman]

know, whenever the Trump era is going to end, Trumpism may continue. We don't know yet. The damage from Trump will last last beyond Donald Trump's presidency, but at some point Trump will be gone. And when that happens, there is a question that it doesn't seem a lot of people are thrilled to be dealing with, but we're going to have to deal with it, which is what do we do with the tens of millions of people who voted for Donald Trump? Sometimes, not once, not twice, but three times. Now, I am not talking about the elected officials. What do we do with Lindsey Graham? Well, that'll get it figured out at some point. What do we do with the media figures, Mark Levin and whoever is still on Trump's side in the media? I don't even know that's going to get figured out. I don't have the answer. That's a different category. I'm talking about regular voters. Your neighbor, your cousin, the guy at the gym, the parent at your kid's school. Do we treat them like they simply made a political mistake or do we treat them like they participated in something so corrosive to democracy that we can no longer see them in a normal way anymore? I think we have to first acknowledge we're not going to be able to hand wave away the people who between 2015 and 2029, a 14 year, period, by the time it's all said and done, supported Trump the entire way. These are people that they are significant in number, and their damaging effect on this country has been significant. Now, there are people who look at Trump voters and say, this is the modern version of the kkk. They knew what they were supporting. There's no coming back from that. That's one perspective. I'm not in that camp. There are others who say, you know, people get misled, people get manipulated. They fell for a charismatic fraud. Welcome them back if they're willing to change. The uncomfortable truth is that there's going to have to be elements of both. And I'll explain what I mean. I don't think we can build a functioning society where 30% of the country is exiled from polite society. I just don't think it works. I don't think it's realistic. I don't think, arguably it's not even desirable if our goal is stability and democracy. But on the other hand, we also can't pretend that nothing happened. We can't say, once Trump is gone, you know, you supported authoritarian rhetoric, you supported a guy who crushed the media, you supported election denial, you supported attacks on institutions, maybe you even supported the Jan6 riots. But it's no big deal. Let's be friends, let's move on. I think that's how you guarantee that it happens again. And this is where I believe the analogy to the manosphere and these influencer pipelines matters a lot. I've said before that people who got pulled into that world are always welcome to come out of it. You're always welcome out of the cult. But there are conditions. We have to acknowledge what happened and how. You have to say, I was wrong, I bought into something that wasn't real, I contributed to something harmful. We don't need a public shaming ritual. They don't need to get flogged in town square. But there has to be an acknowledgment, because without the acknowledgment, there's not going to be change, there's going to be silence. And then the same pattern will repeat itself again. And it might be smoother next time. They might be smarter next time. There is going to be another figure at some point, like a Trump. They might be more polished, they might be less chaotic, they might be more effective, they might be smarter, they might be able to read better. Which, by the way, you know, imagine if Trump were able and did read regularly. He would probably be far more dangerous. And if we don't Honestly, deal with what just happened, People are going to fall for it again. I like to analogize to smoking. We all understand something very basic about smoking. If you've been smoking 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, and you quit today, that's still a good thing. It's always better to stop. You can stop the damage and maybe there's an opportunity for repair. The point is, it's never too late to make a change. Even if you participated in what from 2015 to 2029 will be 14 years of damaging this country, that damage has been done regardless. It's still better for you to stop. We don't pretend the smoking never happened. We don't say you quit. So there were no consequences to smoking 10, 20 or 30 years, no risks, no harm. But both can be true at the same time. And I think that that's how this works. It's never too late to stop being part of something destructive. It's never too late to try to become a force for good pro democracy, reject corruption, reject authoritarianism. And people who are willing to do that should be welcomed. But we don't erase the past. We learn from it. So I don't believe that the Trump supporters should be exiled like amnesia after Trump is gone. I think that, that it is reintegration with some very basic conditions. You're welcome back into the pro democracy movement to the anti corruption coalition. In fact, we should be clear. We need you, we need more people. But you don't get to rewrite history. You don't get to say, I always had some doubts if you didn't. And you don't get to excuse potentially 14 years of supporting this insanity by just going, well, I had a few doubts, but I didn't like Hillary or Biden or Harris or. There has to be some level of accountability, even if it's just, I'm going to be intellectually honest about what happened. Otherwise, we are fixing nothing. We are just waiting for the next version of the exact same problem. And I think that's the real risk here. It's not Trump comes back, it's the next. Trump is smarter, more charismatic, more articulate. And if people don't remember what happened, we end up in even bigger trouble. Eric Trump's company won a bid for a military contract. What? How did that happen? They must just be the best, right? Well, take a listen to this.

[Maria Bartiromo]

And the company's chief strategy adviser, Eric Trump, President Trump's son. Congratulations to you both. Thank you so much for being here.

[David Pakman]

Thanks for having us, Maria. Wow, $24 million. Pentagon contract for Eric Trump in a field where he has zero experience. That sounds really kind of weird. How did he get that contract? I'm sure it was just on the merits, right? Here is a little more discussion of this. Tell me if you're falling for any of this crap.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Eric, I know this is a lot about national security, but sad katz, talking to us about other use cases. Tell us about that. And how did you get involved? What attracted you to this company?

[Eric Trump]

Well, think it's been a friend of mine, and I walked into his factory and I couldn't believe what I saw. You know, coming from hospitality, the uses are unlimited. But, you know, Maria, you're just talking about China. You know, we are America first. We have to win this race. We had to win a lot of races, right? You know, I got involved with crypto in a very big way because we had to win that digital revolution. We have to win Robotics in the United States of America. You had a great segment two days ago, Maria, about the robot in Beijing that was literally running marathons and beating the fastest marathoners by what, seven, eight minutes for. For a full marathon? I mean, you know, these are. These are in the very early days. We better be winning this race in the United States of America. We're the greatest economy in the world, and that's exactly what's doing. And I'm telling you, he's doing a phenomenal job. When you go up and you interact with these robots and they fist bump you, they high five you, they follow your commands, you bring in AI autonomy, it's going to change industry, it's going to change military application, it's going to change hospitality. The uses are unlimited, and I think it's a very beautiful thing, but we must win this race.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

All right, so I know a lot

[David Pakman]

of you are probably wondering, how did Eric's new company win the bid for this contract?

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

There are a lot of robotics companies. There are many that can do Pentagon,

[David Pakman]

military, defense type work. But it's Eric's company. The company Eric is involved in that won the bid while daddy is president. Consider that Eric has zero experience in this industry. Zero. This is exactly what corruption, nepotism, and cronyism look like. This is not a guy who built expertise about robotics over time. He entered the space after his dad became president, and now that company has a $24 million Pentagon contract. Does anyone believe that if his last name weren't Trump, they would have this contract? Does anybody in my audience believe that? Because there are so many qualified robotics companies. Just, you Know, the business people I know from Boston alone are involved in a bunch of those companies. But Eric Trump's company is the one that gets the bid. It is textbook nepotism and cronyism where connections are what matter, competence doesn't matter. It is a totally slanted field of play. And you know, you've got Republicans in Congress who say, oh, we care about waste, we care about fraud, we care about abuse. They say nothing. And, and they do no oversight. Now, I would argue that this is about more than just money or like what's at stake is more than just money. Yes. Giving 24 million to this company because Eric Trump's name is attached to it, that's corrupt. That's bad. But we're talking about military contracts here. And believe what you want about the military industrial complex, at a certain point we have to acknowledge these contracts do relate to national security. And when contracts for the Pentagon are influenced by connections instead of capability and competence, that is a national security issue. Trump is a national security issue. Eric Trump is a national security issue. Now, as I've been screaming for, for months now, I believe that one of the greatest opportunities to bring MAGA people over politically is a serious anti corruption platform. Serious where we say, this is it, we don't care about political party, we have to stop the nepotism, the cronyism, we've got to stop the lobbying. Elected official, revolving door, it's time to stop all of it. And this is exactly what I'm talking about, this sort of thing. I believe the American people are smart enough to understand what's going on and also motivated to stop it. If anybody in my audience believes that Eric Trump's company won the bid fair and square, I got a bridge to sell you. But I want to hear from you info@david pakman.com if you deal with PDFs,

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[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

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[David Pakman]

Trump experiencing historically bad polling approval bottoming out very hard at 32% the number is a disaster. I think what's sort of underneath it is what is even worse for Trump because we're now seeing signs that even Trump's own supporters are losing confidence and this can start to become a spiral that kind of consumes itself. Now let's talk about what's going on. American Research Group poll this is not a left wing poll. If anything, it's a right wing poll finds that 32% of Americans approve of the job that Donald Trump is doing. 63% disapprove. It's not a blip. You can see the trend line Disapproval up since Trump was sworn in. Approval down since Trump was sworn in. This is the trajectory. April of last year Trump was at 43% approval. He is now at 32% approval. That is a loss of roughly a quarter of the approval that he had. Now what about the underlying issue polls? And I think that this is what's extraordinarily illuminating. You look at the economy. Trump's approval on the economy is 31%. 31% approval on the economy for a Republican president. Republicans widely and wrongly but widely believed to be better stewards of the economy. If you're a Republican and the big thing was going to be the economy and you have 31% approval on the economy, if you're losing people on the economy this badly, you're in major political trouble. It goes beyond just approval. It's, do people expect things to get better or for things to get worse? Right now, 67% of Americans say the economy is worsening. Nine percent of Americans say the economy is improving. I'm going to take you back to the Biden presidency. One of the accurate criticisms of the Biden presidency and the MAGA people made this criticism to their credit was just telling people the economy's great doesn't make it great. What people believe about the economy is what matters right now. And that's true. It hurt Kamala Harris. Nine percent of Americans believe the economy is getting better. Not a mild dissatisfaction on the fringes. That is a broad belief and feeling that things are moving in the wrong direction. When people are asked, about a year from now, where do you believe the economy will be in a year? 67%, two thirds say the economy will be worse a year from now. Only 10% believe that the economy will be better a year from now. So you could say, oh, people are frustrated with high gas prices because of the Iran war.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

No, no, no.

[David Pakman]

People expect things to get even worse now. The part that really stands out about this new polling to me is that if you look only at the subset of people who approve of the job Trump is doing, right? So out of everybody, only 32% approve of Trump. Let's only look at that group. Of that group, only 18% believe the economy will be better a year from now.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

So let me.

[David Pakman]

Let me put it a different way. Among Trump's supporters, fewer than one in five expect the economy to be better a year from now. 52% of Trump's own supporters think the economy is going to be worse. So that is a problem Trump has not with Democrats, not with socialists and communists and far left, whatever. Trump's own base does not believe that the economy is going to get better. You see the same pattern when people are asked about their own finances. 5% say that their own household situations are getting better. 63% say their household situation is getting worse. You look a year out, 60% say that they expect to be in a worse place financially. So people are feeling it directly. And you can also see really how widespread this perception is when people rate the overall economy. 79% say the economy is currently bad, very bad or terrible. 79% bad, very bad or terrible. 17% say the economy is good or better. 60% think we're in a recession right now. So we can kind of like zoom out a little bit here. Democrats overwhelmingly disapprove of what's going on. Independents disapprove of what's going on. And many Republicans aren't happy with what's going on. You can't win a midterm in that scenario now because of the map. You know, we've got 100 senators. A third of them are up for election every two years. The third that is up for election this year in the Senate is favorable to Republicans. So while it's possible that Democrats could take the Senate, it's an uphill battle. It's about 5050 right now. The House is likely to fall and be snatched from Republican hands by Democrats. And you look at the circumstances, declining approval, collapsing economic confidence, pessimism about the future, presidencies end up in big trouble. When these are the parameters, if people don't believe things are going to turn around, they're not going to be useful voters to the administration, really tough to reverse. So at the very top level, if you paid attention only to the headline, 32% approval for the, for the president. That's bad, that's low, that's a disaster. The real story, I believe is, is the direction overwhelmingly Americans believe things will

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

be worse in a year.

[David Pakman]

That actually starts to go beyond just the midterms and starts to make us think about, wow, what are Republicans even going to be able to do to justify support for their 2028 candidate? Like, we're starting to be mid-27 when Americans still believe things will be worse off. This is a disaster for Republicans. We with the normal caveat that I like to include, you have to convert feeling into voting, otherwise it is all for nothing. So I will be voting. I hope you will be voting. We need to convert this energy into electoral victories, which is how at the end of the day, you get power. Our friend Tim Miller eviscerated one of these hate pastors. And I've got to tell you, you know, as a Jewish person, I'm not the best suited to go out there and attack pastors. Like, all right, the Jewish guy is attacking Christian pastors. Tim Miller is very well positioned with his background in Republican politics. And the look on this so called pastor's face when Tim explained to him, I'm not going to call you a Pastor, you hate everybody. You're not supporting the teachings of Jesus. This from the Piers Morgan show is really something.

[Tim Miller]

Then last thing. I've been a quote unquote pastor for just shy of 50 years and so I'd like to know how much longer I have to go before I become a real pastor.

[Doug (the so-called pastor)]

Well, you have to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ probably. If you want to be a real pastor. I mean, you can call yourself how you want, Doug. I'm just going it call to call you Doug. I'm kind of tired of you being called pastor. But, you know, I think we could afford him. Look, you're out there, we can afford him. You hate everybody. You, you attack black people, gay people, immigrants. Like all you do is spread hate. Your book that you've got behind there is is, you know, talking about how much you love bad words. I. Look, if you want to teach like this kind of, kind of fake Christianity, that's fine. If you want. No, no, I've not read your book. Very happy to have not read your book. But if you want to do this kind of signaling, you should probably stop

[Tim Miller]

commenting on what it's about.

[Doug (the so-called pastor)]

Well, I don't. I've seen enough of your material on social media that it doesn't really require any more. I mean, it doesn't. It's not like there's a ton of deep thought that's going behind it that requires further study.

[Tim Miller]

As the show started out, I thought we were supposed to refrain from attacking religious leaders.

[David Pakman]

I would argue this guy's not a religious leader.

[Wahaja Ali]

Well, I have no problem. Listen real quick, Pastor, I have no problem. Attack.

[David Pakman]

This is now Wahaja Ali.

[Wahaja Ali]

Wolves in sheep's clothing. I have no problem attacking a man who wrote that American slavery was mutually harmonious between the slave master and the slave. That's you. I have no problem attacking a man who proudly says he. He wants to do away with the 19th amendment which gave women the right to vote. I have no problem attacking a man like yourself who sits here incoherently supporting an incoherent, unwinnable illegal war in Iran. I have no problem attacking you, a man who is the religious leader of Pete Hegseth. A man who's a cosplay crusader who's leading some type of crusade. Probably you put him on as a secretary of defense, getting Americans and innocent civilians killed. I wish you would be a better Christian. I wish you would open up the Bible. I wish you would meet the Jesus that I met when I went to an all boy Jesuit Catholic high school. The Jesus that took care of the sick, that took care of the poor, that welcomed the immigrant, that welcomed the marginalized, that helped them. But instead you've used Jesus as a.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

I think you get the picture.

[David Pakman]

I think you get the picture. I think it's great to speak in this clear way to these people. You know, calling yourself a pastor doesn't confer anything of value or reverence unless you actually think about what they are putting forward. And I understand and listen, the entire system is meant to make you go, oh, it's a pastor. I've got to defer to the pastor, the great pastor. The title pastor is being used as a shield by a lot of these hate preachers. And I love that Miller and Ali ignore the shield. They're like, we're not going to be intimidated by that shield. If your public record is attacking entire groups of people, the label pastor doesn't override that. And there's this tendency to treat religious titles as automatically deserving of our respect. That only works if the behavior matches it. And what is so critical about this is not allowing yourself to be manipulated by those titles. Here's. Here's one more clip.

[Doug (the so-called pastor)]

Yeah, I think that the people that think that the Pope has crossed a line, you know, have, you know, no memory or didn't start paying attention to the news or to the Pope before Donald Trump was around. Pope Leo's comments are in line, line with what we've heard from popes going all the way back to Pope John Paul and Pope John Paul ii opposed both Iraq wars, did so vocally. And, you know, I don't recall George H.W. bush or George W. Bush getting into a fight with the Pope. Multiple popes have criticized Democratic leaders for their stances on abortion and other issues. I don't remember Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi telling the Pope to shut his piehole in when he weighed in on case in point.

[David Pakman]

Popes have a long history of anti war messaging.

[Doug (the so-called pastor)]

You know, the Catholic teaching on abortion. Donald Trump wants to make everything about himself. He wants to pick this fight because that's the only thing he knows how to do, is bully people and pick fights. So it's kind of what we'd expect for Donald Trump. It's a little confusing for JD Vance, who converted to Catholicism two seconds ago and then decided to write a book about his conversion to now come out and say that the Pope needs to be careful when he speaks about theology. As if J.D. vance, who's been a Catholic for two minutes, knows more about Catholic doctrine and just war theory than the Pope. I think probably he would benefit from listening to the Pope. And, yeah, I just. I don't know who is really buying that from him, from the vice President, like, why, you know, it's not as if he comments about how Donald Trump should be careful with his language ever. J.D. vance never criticizes Donald Trump, but now all of a sudden, he simultaneously went through this conversion to maga hood where he's a Donald Trump acolyte, and he went. And he went through a conversion to Catholicism at the same time as this

[David Pakman]

is really good stuff. And I think that the importance of what you know, as many of you know, I've stopped going on the Piers Morgan show a while ago because I found it to be just an exercise in frustration. Tim is really well suited for this, and he's using direct language that's really effective. It forces the conversation onto the substance. Here's all these other popes. Their messaging on war is very similar

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

to the current Pope.

[David Pakman]

And it's important not to allow these conversations to be softened, to be abstracted from the words of a supposed pastor. Strip it down, get to the specifics, don't hide behind rhetoric, don't overcomplicate it, and look at what is being said. And Tim, as a former Republican operative, has become one of the most effective voices at not allowing the rhetoric to become a shield for the real conversations that need to take place. So awesome, awesome job by Tim. And you know, this supposed pastor like a deer in the headlights, quite frankly. And just an absolute and complete drubbing there, there. Really nice job by Tim Miller.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

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[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

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[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

Does this feel like the golden age for you? Would you say that this is as good as the economy has ever done? Are you just rolling in it because of everything that Donald Trump has done? Well, I think the answer is probably not based on macroeconomic statistics, but this is what Kevin Hassett wants you to believe. At some point we have to look around and say, do you think any of us are going to fall for this crap? Kevin, here is Kevin Hassett, top economic adviser to Donald Trump on cnbc. And he says, listen, eggs are down, beef is down. This is all great. And he's building towards a declaration that things are as good as they've ever been anywhere of all time for the United States. Let's take a look and then discuss.

[Joe (Economic Analyst)]

But three, three is definitely above what the Fed wants. That was the last number, even if you use the core was too point 6. Obviously that's still too high. So the President had, when he did this, he knew affordability was on everyone's minds and midterms are coming up. This is a tough sell at this point when everybody's talking about affordability, especially if you don't think that it was an imminent threat, which we're hearing now from, from certain people.

[Kevin Hassett]

I could give the other side of it, Joe, that I don't think it's a tough sell to say that. We just have had a point two at core which rounded up 2.2 from the ones. 2.6 is the lowest that core inflation has been since before Biden inflation started. And so we've made a huge amount of progress. And then you remember core excludes food and energy. But one of the things that was the best news of the CPI report is all the work that we've done to reduce the price of food. And so when I came in, the only thing everybody was talking about was the high price of eggs. Now egg prices are still so low that farmers are actually complaining about it. Beef prices came down enormously because we opened up imports to beef and so on. Even drug prices have come down because of Trump rx. And so we've made a huge amount of progress on the individual items that affect inflation. And then we're also, of course, addressing the macroeconomic issue of how you get inflation down. And that's by being a supply chain side. So you got increased supply that puts downward pressure.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

All right, so he's mentioning a lot of stuff in there and we're going to build to this golden age claim. Now, it is true that egg prices are down. And as I said, when they were up, a lot of this has nothing to do with who's president. Now, you can be unprepared for a bird flu epidemic, which Trump was unprepared for. Unfortunately, it didn't come to pass. But presidents can do relatively little on egg prices. They were up under Trump, now they're down under Trump. That's true. But on some level, they're also lying. He said. Kevin Hassett said beef prices are down, but as you can see here, they are very much not down. This is a one year chart of beef prices. This is a five year chart of beef prices. They are not down. In fact, they're at their highest point in five years. What he's doing is he's trying to cherry pick some volatile grocery items which are sometimes up and sometimes down, eggs and beef. And he's trying to point to short term fluctuations as proof that Trump has done something. But not only is that not really fair or honest, he's also wrong because beef prices are up, not down. What's happening is there's volatility. Some items might drop temporarily or be up temporarily, but the promise was the price level will come down and the price level has gone up. It's not really even an argument about the economy. This is just like, what do we call progress and who can we give credit or blame to? We found two things that went down, even though I don't believe that they did. He's claiming that they did, but it

[David Pakman]

doesn't actually seem that they did.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

And it's about, it's about that simple. Now then we get to this is the golden age. Here is Kevin Hassett telling you everything is awesome.

[Kevin Hassett]

Well, as you know, that we've had two earnings seasons in a row where basically everything surprising on the upside, that's happening because the golden age that President Trump promised is starting to be very visible in the profit data, but also more importantly, in the wage.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

The golden age that Trump promised is now visible. Sometimes it's just sort of like you got to slap this guy in the face with a trout to try to get him to wake up and go, what the hell did I just say? Was like a fugue state. You know, it's an interesting strategy which failed for Biden Harris to go, this is the golden age. Everything's great. Gas is four bucks a gallon. It's coming down. Hopefully it'll come down more. Food prices are up instead of down. Housing is as high as ever relative to incomes and job creation is in the toilet. And he's going, it's a golden era. This is the golden era that Donald Trump promised and it's here. So you have to understand that this is not economic communication. This is narrative building. He's trying to declare a golden age into existence by repeating that it's a golden age before anybody feels one. And what's really happening is that a golden age is something people intuitively feel without being told. People feel things aren't so good and they're being told by the Trump administration that it's a golden age. Not going to work. Not going to work. And if people don't feel it, they're not going to believe that it's happening just because you told them that. And this is time and again, time and again, we are continuing to see this attempted declaration that things are great. Now, finally, Kevin Hassett. This is almost like beyond parody. Hassett says that Trump's truths, untruth, social. Where's my truth button here? Dear God, Truth central. There it is. Trump's truths give clear guidance to journalists about what's happening in Iran and also to the American people.

[David Pakman]

What?

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

Every two seconds Trump's reversing himself.

[Kevin Hassett]

But the fact is that the President, Trump's truths, you go back, look one after another, have given a very clear guide to the journalists of the country and American people about the progress that we're making.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

What he wants you to believe is that when you go on truth social and Trump goes, we've got a deal. And then he goes, I'm bombing Iran. And then he says the Strait of Vermouth is open. And then it's closed. They've closed it, we've closed that. We're bombing, we're not bombing. He wants you to believe that those erratic, self contradictory posts that staff have to clean up afterwards are illuminating and informative to the American people and to journalists, calling it clear guidance is straight up gaslighting. And that's what you're expected to do in this administration.

[David Pakman]

But you know what?

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

I don't even really feel the need to have to argue against it because I get your emails. I know what you all are telling me. You, you're not feeling that there's people canceling $3 a month memberships to my show because of what they are experiencing economically when things are good. I don't hear that from people in the audience. So that is where they want to leave it. Believe us, everything is great. And it went even worse for Mike Lawlor, when the topic turned to Iran. Let's talk about that next. Congressman Mike Lawlor was not ready for simple questions from ms.ms, Ms. Now. I'm sorry, almost at MSNBC, Ms. Now reporter anchor Katie Tour. It seems as though he has mayonnaise in his cranium. And the look on his face when Katie Tour goes, but wait a second, what are you talking about? And you know why? It's because Mike Lawlor wanted to talk

[David Pakman]

about one person, Obama. Right.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

He did not want to talk about Donald Trump. He wanted to talk about Barack Obama and he wanted to talk about Libya. Now you might be saying, why would you talk about Obama and Libya when we are in a war with Iran under Donald Trump? Shouldn't you be talking about Iran and Donald Trump? Yes, you should. But Mike Lawler didn't want to do that and Katie Tour wasn't going to let him off the hook.

[Katie Tour]

The discussion I was just having showed that the Iranians are picking the U.S. negotiators, demanding vice President Vance. And you may say they're backed into a corner. But that corner includes leverage over the Strait of Hormuz which fuels the global economy and has put everybody under strain. And they don't seem all that unwilling to use it and to continue to use it for quite some time. So they may be backed into a corner, but that corner is well stocked. And it seems, it appears, appears the President is the one who is more desperate in this moment. Do you not agree?

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

Well, let's look back.

[Mike Lawlor]

Barack Obama engaged in a seven month conflict in Libya that resulted in a Barack Obama. No, no, no, we do, we do.

[Eric Trump]

Excuse me, Katie.

[Katie Tour]

No, we don't.

[Kevin Hassett]

Excuse me, Katie.

[Mike Lawlor]

Yes, we do.

[Katie Tour]

I want to live in the moment and I don't want to do a 10 minute detour for President Obama.

[Mike Lawlor]

It's not a detour. It's not a detour. It's a relevant fact.

[Eric Trump]

Okay.

[Mike Lawlor]

We were in a seven month war in Libya that resulted in a civil war. Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi fully endorsed it, fully embraced it, said everything was great and the President was making this authority better. Excuse me.

[Katie Tour]

We have to justify what happened then in order to ensure. Now, I'm talking about.

[Mike Lawlor]

I know, I know, I know you just want to spew out. I know you just want to spew out the talking points for the left here.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

She's actually trying to do journalism, which is if I ask a question about a and you talk to me about tiddly winks or HR puffin stuff from 22 years ago. I'm going to try to redirect you. It's called basic journalism that doesn't work for these folks.

[Mike Lawlor]

But the fact is this, this was a just war that the president engaged in to stop this regime from possessing a nuclear weapon. And ultimately, okay, you can say that over the past eight weeks, in your opinion, seemingly nothing has been done.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

But the fact is, in the opinion of the American people, by the way, the polling is very clear on this.

[Mike Lawlor]

Their leadership is gone. The Ayatollah is dead. The clerics are dead. The leadership of the IRGC is dead. The remnants are what we are dealing with right now. And yes, if you think they're using the Straits of Hormuz as leverage is a pretty problem. What do you think it would have been if they actually had a nuclear weapon? What do you think they would have done using a nuclear weapon to extort the rest of the world? The president made a very difficult decision, but it was a necessary one.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

Yeah, listen, the question, the hypothetical about nukes would be a fair question if they were close to nukes or had nukes, but they didn't. And, and in fact, that's part of what this is all about. They don't have anything. But what about ism here? What about Obama? The truth is, I wouldn't be bringing up Obama in the context of Iran because Obama got a deal done in 2015 that Trump now is trying to reconstruct. Remember that when Trump in 2018 got us out of the Iran nuclear deal, he said that the deal wasn't good enough. The deal wasn't preventing Iran from doing anything, even though by all indications, it was. And there is now reporting that the Trump administration is trying but failing to negotiate something that is almost identical to the Iran nuclear deal. They would love to be able to put the Iran nuclear deal back in place as long as it didn't have Obama's name on it. Because that they don't want this is what do they want? At the end of the day, Mike Lawlor would love to be able to say to Katie Tour, hey, Katie, good question about Trump and Iran. The answer has something to do with Obama and Libya and he wants Katie Tour to go. You're right, Congressman. Trump is absolved of everything. You're right. Trump is great because of Obama and Libya. And here's another Nobel Peace Prize to boot. Thank you, sir. May I have another? That's what they want Katie Tour or other journalists to do and say when you give them a red herring and pull in the what about ism it's the responsibility of the journalists and the anchors and the interviewers not to do it. And I'm often critical of MSNBC as sort of being kind of like, you know, Fox News light on the center left. And there's many criticisms of MSNBC, Ms. now, as it's currently called. But Katie Tour does a good job there of going. This doesn't make any sense. On no level does it make sense for you to be talking to me about Obama when the question is Trump and Iran. And this is because Trump's approval is now 32%. This is because Republicans are facing historic defeat in November. This is why, when the question is Iran now we're in a war now under the peace president, they go, what about Obama and Libya? What about it? How about Trump? Let's keep the focus on that. The David Pakman show is an audience supported program.

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[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

support support the show is by becoming

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[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

pacman.com Sometimes people write things to me and they are horrible, disgusting, sick people sending me horrible screeds and insults. And sometimes people write in and they go, hey, David, I kind of like the show. I hope you keep doing it. Uh, we're going to look at a sampling of both today.

[David Pakman]

It is Friday Feedback.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

You can always email info@david pakman.com we will sometimes include comments from all over the Internet and our various platforms. Tracy wrote in and Tracy thought she had me up against the wall. She thought she figured out the show. Tracy said, I just listened to part of this podcast episode. Like many, he sounds bias. The speaker definitely does not like Trump and expresses his disappointment. This is not news. This is opinion. You know what? Trace me, Tracy. You got me. You got me. This is an opinion show. That is absolutely true. Now, the word Tracy was looking for is not bias, it's biased. And I hate to break it to you, but everybody has their biases. They may be political, they may be ideological, they may be related to advertiser bias or platform bias or everybody's got their biases. But it is important to be able to determine, am I watching an opinion show or am I watching a news show? And this is an opinion show. I've never denied that. And it is a reminder when somebody goes, I think I figured out what this is. I don't think this is a news show. I think it's an opinion show. This is. It's easy to laugh at Tracy and go, duh, of course. No, no, no, we should praise that. A lot of people can't tell the difference. A lot of people turn on Fox News and it's Hannity's face and they go, I don't know, there's like the lower thirds and then there's a thing that's spinning that says live and it says Fox News. But it is an opinion show. And in my book, the Echo Machine, I write a lot about basic media literacy and being able to figure out am I watching news or am I watching opinion. So as funny as it is, Tracy, it's a great thing that you figured out that this is an opinion show. Thank you. Itinerant Degenerate wrote on our subreddit, what if Iran doesn't open the strait? Even if Trump just declares victory and leaves? I have heard a number of commentators claim Trump will just decide he has won and all the troops will leave and everything will be back to normal except destroyed infrastructure. But what makes these people think Iran will just open the strait? If US Troops leave, they may continue to hold it hostage to get things they want 100%. And in fact, I've been warning about that for weeks now. Remember that we are now into week eight. Eight, or is it nine? No, I guess it's eight. It's almost week nine. Over the weekend I think we will be done. We will have a full eight weeks and then it will. We will enter week nine of this three to four week war. And as I've said before, I don't believe this is, I don't think this is Trump's war to end anymore because Iran also has a say. Iran can do whatever it wants, much like Trump can do whatever I want. So can Iran. And the idea that the second Trump decides this war is over, Iran is going to agree and is going to go great. Let's all go back to normal. I don't think so. I don't think so. And that is exactly why one of the reasons why this entire idea was harebrained from the beginning, Galisi wrote on Instagram. David, make up your mind. You can either be disappointed that Iran, the most dangerous terror supporting state in the world with the blood of American service member on its hands and countless innocent civilians worldwide, is getting clobbered, or you can bitch about a cease fire. You can't do both. Well, first of all, I've not been doing either. Secondly, cease fire or being thrilled with

[David Pakman]

the war are not the only options.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

And this actually requires doing a little bit of the work and thinking beyond just talk radio or right wing influencer talking points. There are a lot of regimes around the world that I find deplorable. There are a lot of regimes around the world that would love to see Americans die or their neighbors die. I mean, listen, I think Putin's Russia is a disastrous regime. Kim Jong Un's North Korea. I don't like the Cuban regime. I have never liked the Chavez Maduro Venezuelan regime. And yes, the theocratic extremist regime under the Ayatollah of Iran has also been on my top list of horrible regimes. What China's doing in to the Uyghurs is an abomination and I would like to see all of it end. But that's different from saying this is the US's war to fight. Now, I am not an isolationist for the sake of isolation, but I am of the mind that American leaders should prioritize doing what's best for Americans as the number one question. And it is very hard to understand how this Iran war, this three to four week war that is almost fully eight weeks in, is to the benefit of the average American. Well, they, they were going to nuke us. Well, they didn't have nukes. Okay. Well, they're ballistic missiles. Well, the ballistic missiles. Ballistic missiles couldn't reach the United States. Well, what about the regime? The regime's terrible, but American involvement in regime change rarely goes swimmingly. And the son of the Ayatollah is in power. So on what level is that regime change? So it's not about bitching about a cease fire or saying that it's awesome what Trump is doing. We can be a little more thoughtful and we can actually think for ourselves a little bit. Admiral DeWitt. Admiral Wit De with wrote, David, only eight viewers thinks are in a downfall. Boy, I think what Admiral Wit the With meant is that things are in a downfall. And as you can see, they made this comment seconds after a video was posted. Listen. Much like Trump says, someday the stories about his health will be accurate. Someday stories about the demise of this show might be accurate. Maybe not. Maybe I'll go out on top like Michael Jordan. I don't know. Okay? But for 50, 15 years, hundreds of comments a week, the show is circling the drain. David, it's almost done. You don't have viewers anymore. The YouTube channel's dying, the Facebooks are dying, the Tiktoks are dying. And yet we grow every single year. So if you're waiting around holding your breath for this show to finally be sucked down the drain in a spiral of horror. You can keep waiting, but not today, Admiral. Not today. Ange Cruz said. How many protests did Republicans do when Geriatric Joe was in office? Democrats are such sore losers, it's beyond pathetic. You know what's pathetic, Ange? Can I speak like we know each other, Ange? Because you're sending me crap. You're sending me trash. If you claim to be on the right, you, I guess, support the Constitution, right? Well, the First Amendment to the Constitution talks about the right of the people to peaceably assemble. And that is exactly what has happened three times during no Kings. And it's funny and kind of pathetic, to use your word, Ange, to say that engaging in constitutionally protected activities, that exercising one's rights is evidence of being a pathetic sore loser. And it makes me think, Ange, God forbid, it makes me think you might not really be the supporter of the Constitution that you and your ilk claim to be. Here's a nice message from YouTube. Common Sense Tony wrote, I've been watching you since I was a Republican a long time ago, bro. I came to your channel to get a laugh and a different perspective. I definitely have a different perspective. Thank you, Common Sense Tony. I don't want to take all the credit. I'm sure Common Sense Tony watched other stuff, too. Common Sense Tony is proof in the pudding that this sort of content does help to deprogram people. People who come in and they go, let's see what this left wing crap. Oh.

[David Pakman]

Huh.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

Maybe Republicans aren't actually offering me policies

[David Pakman]

that are good for me.

[David Pakman (continued or co-host)]

Maybe I would do better under a Democratic administration. This is why independent media matters so much. And. And it has never mattered more than now. So we are going to do everything we can to keep building. Remember that there are forces out there that want us to fail. Don Jr recently retweeted attacks on me. Caroline Levitz recently retweeted attacks on me. Make sure you're subscribed on YouTube. Help us get to that 4 million. Make sure you're on my free substack newsletter. It's the only platform where we own our data, and if they shut us down, I can reach you. It's often very popular to come in and pretend. Hey, we don't need anybody's help for anything. No, I mean, listen, this is a joint effort with all of you. And so if there's a platform you can follow us on, if you can share a segment, whatever. We have the proof that we are deprogramming people and that is a great thing. Epstein's Depot says Trump's worst gas prices are are cheaper than Biden's best. That's a fact. Well, that happens not to be true. Just don't let a good talking point get in the way of facts. Because as you can see, there are numerous periods of time, in fact more than half of Biden's presidency during which gas prices were lower than they are now. I know it might sound really good and fun. Trump's worst gas prices are cheaper than Biden's best. But it's not true. And if you care about truth, which I know a lot of these people don't, then it would be important, important to try to stick to what the facts are. We've got a great bonus show for you today. You can sign up and get instant Access@join pacman.com I will see you then. I will see you Monday. New show, new bonus show.

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