Alfonso McCoy Jr. & Debra Gomez (Queen of Clubs, Arizona)

Summary

The Deck: Alfonso McCoy Jr. & Debra Gomez (Queen of Clubs, Arizona)

Host: audiochuck

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Deck, host audiochuck delves into the tragic and unsolved murders of Alfonso McCoy Jr. and Debra Gomez, affectionately known as the "Queen of Clubs" from Arizona. Utilizing investigative journalism and collaboration with law enforcement and the victims' families, audiochuck seeks to shed light on one of Phoenix's coldest cases, hoping that new listeners might hold the key to bringing justice to Alfonso and Debra.

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The Murder of Alfonso McCoy Jr. & Debra Gomez

On February 21, 2001, Debra Gomez, a 41-year-old woman, and her 32-year-old boyfriend, Alfonso McCoy Jr., were found murdered in their Phoenix home. The discovery was made by Debra's son, Raymond Navarrete, who arrived at his mother's house to find both cars in the driveway—a rare occurrence since both Debra and Alfonso typically worked during the day.

Detective Mark Nunley describes the initial scene:

“When he approached the door, the door was locked. But he noticed the window, which is right next to the front door, was broken and that a large panel of it was removed so somebody could have easily climbed into the house through the window.” ([02:32])

Inside, the atmosphere was unsettling. Debra's usually outdoor dog was found inside the house, displaying uncharacteristic aggression towards strangers, indicating that the perpetrator was known to the couple.

Debra's niece, Becca, shared her perspective on the dog’s behavior:

“He was a great dog.” ([14:20])

“He was scary, aggressive. If he didn't know you, it was scary. So whoever was in that house, whoever did that, he knew and he loved because no way.” ([14:23])

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Initial Investigation

Upon entering the house, Raymond and his friend Michael noticed unusual signs: legal papers strewn across the hallway and BB guns misplaced around the home. The absence of any signs of struggle suggested a swift and targeted attack.

Detective Nunley elaborates on the evidence found:

“There wasn't any sign of a struggle, that there was any positioning of the bodies. They were in bed or likely when they got shot.” ([06:40])

Autopsy results revealed that both victims were shot in the face, with Alfonso sustaining a gunshot wound to his forehead and Debra having an exit wound at the back of her head. The presence of only two shell casings, yet evidence pointing to three gunshots, raised suspicions about the number of attackers involved.

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Theories Emerged

1. Ex-Boyfriend Henry

The first theory centered around an ex-boyfriend named Henry, who had a history of violent offenses, including aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. Henry’s tumultuous relationship with Debra provided a potential motive. However, Henry denied any involvement, maintaining that he had no recent contact with Debra beyond occasional letters during her custody of Henry in prison. Debbie's sister, Becky, expressed strong disbelief in this theory:

“I knew they can't accuse him of that.” ([06:22])

2. Financial Motives

Another angle considered was a financial dispute related to Debra's late mother's will. There were conflicting accounts about the distribution of the house and inheritance, with suspicions falling on a family friend, Gale, as a potential orchestrator aiming to seize the property. Yet, this theory was quickly debunked by Becky, who clarified:

“There was no money to be had when everything was said and done. I think I got $1,000 when they sold the house and paid for what they needed to pay for. So, yeah, there was nothing.” ([19:08])

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Emerging Gang-Related Theory

A more compelling theory emerged months after the murders, linking the case to gang activity. It was revealed that Debra had possibly provided a tip to law enforcement regarding her son Raymond's involvement with gang associates. This would have made Debra a target for retaliation.

Detective Nunley discusses this development:

“Family had mentioned... Debbie had recently made... received some money from giving this tip to the police. There was suspicion that this was some associates of Raymond.” ([20:47])

Raymond’s own associations with gang-related activities brought another suspect into focus—Victor, a friend involved in prior shootings. Alfonso, unaware of his own peril, was likely an unintended victim caught in the crossfire.

Alfonso's mother, Muriel, warned Alfonso about the dangers:

“He knew, you know, he loved Debbie, but he knew this situation in this environment is not for him. And so he was a week too late, basically.” ([22:59])

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Investigative Impasse and Re-examination

Initial investigations stalled due to conflicting testimonies and insufficient evidence. Raymond Navarrete, who first discovered the bodies, became evasive and uncooperative, particularly after being arrested for unrelated charges. Detective Nunley highlighted inconsistencies in Raymond’s statements, increasing suspicions about his involvement or knowledge of the murders.

Detective Nunley remarked:

“It doesn't seem likely that Raymond would have committed the murders by his own hand. I think they believed that his involvement with gang associates brought the wrong people into the family's lives.” ([25:24])

Advancements in forensic technology years later provided a glimmer of hope. DNA evidence on a wooden dowel and other items from the scene were revisited using modern techniques, potentially unearthing new leads that were previously unattainable.

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The Search for Justice

Despite renewed efforts, breakthroughs have remained elusive. The deckcast team attempted to engage with Debra and Alfonso's children, Jenna and Raymond, but met resistance. Detective Nunley continues to pursue the case, revisiting evidence and seeking any new information that could resolve the mystery.

“We're able to separate some of those profiles depending on this type of sample.” ([28:37])

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Impact on Loved Ones

The heartbreaking loss of Alfonso and Debra has left an indelible mark on their families. Alfonso's relatives carry his ashes with them daily as a solemn reminder of their loss, while Debra's niece, Becca, shares the deep emotional scars left by the tragedy.

Muriel, Alfonso's mother, poignantly describes the perpetual void left by her son's death:

“If you were close to them that you will ever have... It's like somebody cutting off your arm. You always remember you had an arm.” ([30:11])

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Call to Action

The Deck urges anyone with information regarding the murders of Alfonso McCoy Jr. and Debra Gomez to come forward. Anonymous tips can be made through Silent Witness at 480-948-6377 or 1-800-343-TIPS, or via their website silentwitness.org.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Deck not only recounts the tragic and unresolved case of Alfonso and Debra but also underscores the enduring quest for justice by their families and the investigative community. As technology advances and attention is renewed, there remains hope that this cold case will eventually be solved, bringing peace to those left behind.

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Produced by The Deck with Emusic by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about The Deck and its advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com.

Transcript

[Ashley Flowers]

True crime podcasts. There is no shortage to consume. And if you're like me, you've consumed them all. I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday we cover a case in a way that's not like you've heard before, because I have built a one of a kind team of investigative journalists dedicated to conducting original reporting, making sure that you get the inside scoop. Listen to hundreds of Crime Junkie episodes now. Wherever you get your podcasts, our card this week is Alfonso McCoy Jr. And Debra Gomez, the Queen of Clubs from Arizona. And it seems like more than just a coincidence that this couple is on that particular face of cards, because by all accounts, Debbie was Alfonso's queen. They'd only been together a few years or so, but according to both families, Alfonso always took care of his people. When he did choose to settle down, he was loyal to that one person. He was Debbie's protector. But in the darkness of winter more than 20 years ago, not even he could save them. I'm Ashley Flowers and this is the deck. In the late afternoon hours on February 21, 2001, 20 year old Raymundo Navarrete, who went by Raymond, had been out and about running some errands around Phoenix when he decided to swing by his mom Debbie's house. It was something that he did every couple of days or so since he'd recently moved out of her home on West Thomas Road. As he and his buddy Michael pulled up to the One story ranch, Raymond was a bit surprised to see both Debbie and her boyfriend Alfonso's cars in the driveway because they were rarely there at the same time. One of them was usually working, brushing off what didn't quite feel right, though, they started to walk towards the front door. But as they approached the stoop, Raymond stopped dead in his tracks. Here's Phoenix police Detective Mark Nunley.

[Mark Nunley]

So when he approached the door, the door was locked. But he noticed the window, which is right next to the front door, was broken and that a large panel of it was removed so somebody could have easily climbed into the house through the window.

[Ashley Flowers]

The two friends hesitantly made their way through the front door using Raymond's key, and inside was more of the same. Something was off and the first thing that alerted Raymond was the pitter patter of pause amidst the deafening silence. His mom's large dog, typically an outside pet, was inside the house.

[Mark Nunley]

Then he noticed that the back door is now open as well. The sliding glass door was open. Raymond was surprised that his mom hadn't come to greet him by this time, because usually if she's there and it's during the day, if he's walking in the door, she'll be greeting him.

[Ashley Flowers]

Instead of letting that sinking feeling steer him back out of the house, his reluctant curiosity continued to usher him down the hallway towards his mom's bedroom, while apparently, Michael stayed behind, waiting for him in the living room.

[Mark Nunley]

Raymond did mention that right away to officers that when. When he was walking down the hallway towards the bedrooms, he noticed some legal papers on the ground. And he described his mom keeping some of her important papers in a bag in the house. And when he saw these papers on the ground, he recognized those as the important papers that Debbie keeps in the house. But here they are spread out all over the hallway, and the bag is there, like somebody had gone through them.

[Ashley Flowers]

I imagine Raymond was probably calling out to Debbie at this point. But by the time he got to the wide open frame of his mom's bedroom door, the opportunity to try and convince himself that everything was just fine was over.

[Mark Nunley]

That's where he discovered Debbie and Alfonso still laying in bed. And as he's looking closer, he notices what he thinks is blood on her face. He reaches down to touch her in bed, and she feels cold. He takes a closer look at Alfonso and notices that Alfonso had been shot as well. He tried to wake Alfonso up or to get a reaction, but there was no reaction from them.

[Ashley Flowers]

Likely alerted by his friend's panicked screams, Michael urged Raymond not to touch anything else. The two needed to get out, and they needed to call 911. When Phoenix police got that call at about 4:45pm they rushed to respond to the home. Located on what's considered to be a frontage road. The street was lined with houses, but it wasn't like a traditional subdivision or anything. It was actually off a major thoroughfare, the perfect place for intruders to make a quick getaway without being noticed by neighbors. Now, because it had come over dispatch that Alfonso and Debbie were found together in the bed, shot to death, there were some early assumptions from law enforcement that it was possible this could have been a murder suicide. But those initial impressions were soon squashed. I mean, first, the broken window likely indicated forced entry, because though Alfonso didn't technically live with Debbie, he had been sleeping over there all the time. He seemed to have full access to her house. And as more of Debbie's family had gotten word from Raymond and frantically made their way to the scene, investigators learned from them that there was zero history of violence between the two. Quite the Opposite, actually. According to Debbie's family members, who we were able to speak with for this episode, she wasn't normally lucky when it came to love. But even though there was a bit of an age gap between 41 year old Debbie and her younger 32 year old boyfriend, Alfonso, things just seemed to click this time. Here is Debbie's sister Becky, who recalled getting the gut wrenching news that the two had been killed while she was at work.

[Becky]

My boss, who I was good friends with, drove me out there and I remember telling him they better not say that this is a murder suicide because Alfonso would never do that because he was such a nice man, he was such a good person. I just, I knew it at that point, you know, like, I knew they can't accuse him of that.

[Mark Nunley]

They were in Debbie's bedroom, in the bed, together, under the blankets. Initially it looked like those were sort of moved, pulled back. But based on what officers saw and then what the investigators later observed when they were doing their investigation, it looked like they had both been shot right there in the bed. There wasn't any sign of a struggle, that there was any positioning of the bodies. They were in bed or likely when they got shot. As far as the gunshot wounds, initially officers just saw the blood. And when the investigators started looking at the bodies, as a medical examiner's office is showing up with the medical legal investigators to recover the bodies to take them to autopsy, they do notice that Alfonso appears to have a gunshot wound in his forehead and no sign of an exit wound. He also has an injury to his hand and he looks like it had been bleeding for a little while. So the initial thought was maybe he was also shot in the hand or maybe his hand was up when he was shot. Debbie had a gunshot wound to her face and an apparent exit wound to the back of her head. And there was some blood spatter on and behind the bed that was consistent.

[Ashley Flowers]

With that the couple was naked when they were found in bed. But according to detectives, there were no signs of sexual assault on either victim. So you can surmise that maybe they had been intimate before falling asleep. Or perhaps they just slept in the nude. Which factored into building out a timeline of their last movements. Detectives learned that the last person to see Debbie and Alfonso was Debbie's adult daughter, Jenna Gomez. She'd been over the night before with her baby girl and they'd left at around 8:30pm she said when they left, the couple seemed totally fine. Now we know calls to Debbie went unanswered. Between that time she left and 10am the next morning, when Jenna's boyfriend had driven by the house, that's when he noticed that both cars were there, which, again, was weird, considering they both worked. And it was a weekday morning. But police confirmed that Debbie, and most likely Alfonso, too, hadn't actually made it to work the next day. Now, it wasn't a particularly bloody scene, but disturbing nonetheless. Investigators found and collected two shell casings on the floor closer to the door.

[Mark Nunley]

And then later, as they were recovering the bodies, they located a projectile. So it's the expended bullet that comes out that was on the mattress. It appears that it might have gone through a blanket, which is interesting, you know, to theorize where that came from. If we have Alfonso with a gunshot wound to his head, and it appears to have retained a bullet and then a through and through gunshot wound to Debbie, you know, why is there a projectile on the bed? So it sort of raises the thought that there's probably three shots that were fired versus just the two, when they were only able to find two casings.

[Ashley Flowers]

As Raymond mentioned, there were those papers strewn about in the hallway outside of the bedroom, which investigators collected as evidence. There was an open drawer that maybe someone had rifled through. And then there was something else kind of strange. BB guns that were typically tucked away were just kind of left out.

[Mark Nunley]

And about one of them was on a chair in the living room. One of them was on the floor in a bedroom. And these are BB guns, but they look like a revolver or a pistol at first glance. But Raymond mentioned that those were out of place, that they shouldn't have been out, like Debbie or Alfonso. They didn't, like, ever take them out and handle them, really.

[Ashley Flowers]

Debbie and Alfonso weren't known to have any real guns, but investigators collected those BB guns along with the bedding, swabs of blood from the scene, as well as swabs of things around the house for possible DNA. And the clues didn't dry up. As they exited the front door to search around the house, investigators discovered a wooden dowel in the yard on the ground below that broken window. The kind of thing that was used to either keep someone from being able to slide it open or to keep it propped open. They thought that their suspect probably had to mess with it in order to gain entry into the home.

[Mark Nunley]

Officers noticed some tire tracks in the front yard. It looked like a car had pulled in and then pulled right back out. There were no footprints around the dirt, so they weren't sure if this was a suspect car or if this was just somebody who maybe was turning around or what. But they noticed these tire tracks in the front yard and they also noticed the vegetation that's by that front window that was broken. It had been trampled. There were some footprints on that vegetation. It was trampled down. Not enough to get a shoe impression in the dirt or in that vegetation, but clearly somebody had been walking on that recently and those plants were smashed down.

[Ashley Flowers]

Investigators took photos of those tire tracks and they even got shoe impressions from everyone who they knew that had entered the home, just in case they ever found something to compare it to. Although no one could say for sure that anything was actually stolen from the house. Overall, the scene made it feel like whoever did this was likely looking for something. But the killer wasn't going to let Alfonso or Debbie stop them from taking whatever it was that they may have been after. The way these two were attacked, cold blooded, shot in the face, surely that said something. This was likely a targeted attack. Everyone's got a thing, whether it's vinyl records, sneakers, or sports memorabilia. And talking to people about how you found them on ebay can quickly become your whole personality. Even at 2am when you can't get your obsession off your mind, you're on ebay for sure. Scrolling your favorite seller's storefront, setting search alerts, building the watch list of your literal dreams, and making everyone in the group chat jealous. Maybe you've even gotten your bestie onto ebay too. And it's pretty likely that when they found out that they could get their favorite thing and for a good deal too, well, it's game over. And if vinyl records, the newest sneaker drops, and sports memorabilia aren't your thing, the best part about ebay is that it doesn't matter what you're into. Designer watches, car parts, vintage furniture. It's all there. You might just discover your next passion on ebay too. So go find the things that keep you up at night. Ebay Things People love True Crime Podcasts There is no shortage to consume. And if you're like me, you've consumed them all. I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday we cover a case in a way that's not like you've heard before, because I have built a one of a kind team of investigative journalists dedicated to conducting original reporting, making sure that you get the inside scoop. Listen to hundreds of Crime Junkie episodes Now, wherever you get your podcasts, the victims families were able to point out something crucial to detectives that only added to the Narrative that the murders were probably committed by somebody who knew the couple. Debbie's dog, sugar bear, Wasn't quite as sweet and cuddly, at least with strangers, as his name might suggest. Here is Debbie's niece, Becca. I loved him.

[Becca]

He was a great dog.

[Ashley Flowers]

He was scary, aggressive.

[Becca]

If he didn't know you, it was scary. So whoever was in that house, whoever did that, he knew and he loved because no way.

[Ashley Flowers]

As investigators sat down with Debbie and Alfonso's loved ones, Two possible theories emerged right out of the gate. The first involved an ex boyfriend of Debbie's, A guy that we're gonna call Henry. The two had actually met all the way back in high school, and it seemed like they ended up dating sometime after that, then had broken up, but then reconnected later down the line and became more serious before breaking up yet again. And all along, the relationship had been tumultuous, to say the least.

[Mark Nunley]

I think the Henry thing Was the first and foremost for most of the people that we talked to. This ex boyfriend, Henry didn't have a great history. He had some violent history. He had done some prison time for some violent acts. And their relationship wasn't great. They did apparently stay in contact when he was in prison writing letters. And I believe Debbie saved some of those letters. Those were actually collected from the home, but there was no documentation that there was any specific threats Found in those letters when investigators initially collected them.

[Ashley Flowers]

Now, Henry had been in prison for aggravated assault With a deadly weapon not related to debbie at the time of the murders. He'd only been out, like, six months or so. But the relationship between him and Debbie at that moment Was a little confusing because depending on who you talk to, they paint a bit of a different picture. Some people thought maybe they had recently reconnected or at least ran into each other, Possibly at a local spot called the boomerang bar. But others said that it was all one sided. Who was initiating it varied from source to source. But when they went back to speak with this ex, Henry didn't act like a guilty man. He made himself available and fully cooperated. He claimed he'd only found out about the murders from the news.

[Mark Nunley]

Henry corroborates some of the information that detectives initially learned about sending some letters about seeing Debbie at boomerang bar, About Debbie coming over to his house and wanting to find him. He maintained that he actually never made contact with her. They never actually met up. They never actually had any physical contact or got in touch with each other online, the phone.

[Ashley Flowers]

There were also some rumblings that maybe Henry had an issue with Debbie dating Alphonso. But Henry disputed that. Yeah, it was safe to say he assumed the recent communication attempts meant that there was a chance they were on the road to rekindling. But he acted like there was no anger or animosity about her relationship with Alfonso. The second theory that came to light almost immediately had to do with money as a motive. Apparently, Debbie's mother had passed away about two years prior, and there may have been a bit of a dispute regarding her will and the home that Debbie had been living in that had once belonged to her mom.

[Mark Nunley]

Depending on what family member was interviewed, there were different understandings of what was happening with the will. There was the will that initially was supposed to leave the house to Debbie and her sister, and then, as their children became adults, they were to sell the house and give the proceeds to the sisters and then their children and sort of distribute it that way amongst the family. Then there was talk of a second will existing because of an executor that was a family friend.

[Ashley Flowers]

It seemed like Debbie's son Raymond, took those documents all over the floor as a sign that what had happened likely had to do with this dispute over the will in the house. It sounds like both he and Jenna thought that the family friend, who we'll call Gale, was trying to take the house and sell it out from underneath them, leaving them all high and dry. So the theory was that maybe Gail had put a hit out on Debbie. However, others stated that there's no way this was the case. They said Gail was an older woman who had been extremely close with Debbie's mom, even helped care for her. Detectives weren't sure what ever came of the will, the house, or the money. And it didn't look like Gail was ever really even interviewed back then. And this debacle was actually something our reporting team was able to help clear up while we were working on this case. You see, Debbie's sister Becky, was super surprised to hear us say that this will money thing was even considered a real theory. She hadn't seen Gail's actions as malicious at all.

[Becky]

Oh, the will. No, there was no money to be had when everything was said and done. I think I got $1,000 when they sold the house and paid for what they needed to pay for. I got $1,000. So, yeah, there was nothing. Nothing to be had. So, I don't know. It didn't even. I don't even remember that conversation about.

[Ashley Flowers]

Oh, will at the time. Both theories, one regarding love, the other money, sort of Just fizzled out. There was nothing strong to substantiate either claim, so detectives were forced to move on. About a month following the initial investigation, though, something new rose to the surface, something that seemed to be their strongest theory yet. This lasagna was so cheesy, my plate was filled with saucy slices. Then a flimsy store brand plate. No, no, no, no. Ruined it. Next time, get Dixie Ultra plates three times stronger than the leading store brand. 10 inch paper plate. Dixie, make it right. True crime podcasts. There is no shortage to consume. And if you're like me, you've consumed them all. I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast, Crime Junkie. Every Monday we cover a case in a way that's not like you've heard before, because I have built a one of a kind team of investigative journalists dedicated to conducting original reporting, making sure that you get the inside scoop. Listen to hundreds of Crime Junkie episodes now, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mark Nunley]

Family had mentioned, well, I think Debbie had just recently made, I don't know if it was a silent witness tip or just gave information and she maybe had received some money from giving this tip to the police. And there was suspicion that this was some associates of Raymond. He's affiliated with some of these guys that are in gangs. They're into nefarious stuff, whether it's drugs or violence or drive bys or shootings or whatever. And that she learns about these things because she's living at home with him and she has this information and she gives it to police.

[Ashley Flowers]

The story went that back in December, just a few months before Debbie and Alfonso were murdered, Debbie was woken up by someone pounding on the door. She opened it and it was one of her son's friends looking for him. Now, remember, Raymond was living with his mom at that point. And apparently Raymond got up, talked with this friend and then gave him a ride somewhere.

[Mark Nunley]

It turns out that that friend was involved in a shooting and that Debbie learns about this and she gave information to the police about this, about where Raymond's friend was and sort of implementing him in this other crime which ultimately he is charged with and he pleads guilty too.

[Ashley Flowers]

Now, this guy who we'll call Victor, he didn't end up going to prison until after Debbie and Alfonso were killed. But Victor, gang affiliated, would have had the means and the motive to hurt Debbie. And unfortunately, Alfonso was likely just in the wrong place at the wrong time, if that's what happened. Whatever the truth may be, Victor or otherwise, that part Is something that Alfonso's family feels strongly about to this day, that he was never intended to be the target. Now, they'd heard rumblings about Debbie's son Raymond, Being involved with illegal activity. Alfonso had even recently talked to his mom, Muriel, and his sister Relma, about the situation. Here are the two Recounting those conversations.

[Muriel]

When he came over, you know, we talk about everything. And I tried to warn him about her family, because her children, they were gang affiliated, and he had never been around anything like that. You know, we were just talking about this because he was trying to find a way to get out. Yeah, he knew, you know, he loved Debbie, but he knew this situation in this environment is not for him. And so he was a week too late, basically.

[Ashley Flowers]

During the first few days and weeks of the investigation, Raymond had been cooperative. But by the time detectives were hearing chatter about his dealings or associations, Possibly having something to do with the crime, he started evading them and wouldn't come in for another formal interview. But though he wasn't talking, others were. And investigators were starting to pick up on little things here and there that didn't match up with what Raymond had told them in the early days. Like, for one, he had mentioned he didn't have any guns at the time of the murders, but others were saying that he definitely did. And then, and possibly most suspicious, apparently, someone said that he had actually stopped by his mom's house Much earlier that day. And look, from what detective Nunley told us, it doesn't seem likely that Raymond would have committed the murders by his own hand. I think they believed that his involvement with gang associates Brought the wrong people into the family's lives, and someone he knew could have been responsible For a myriad of reasons. Now, it would take about six months, but around August of 2001, investigators finally got their chance to really question Raymond again, this time from behind bars. He'd been arrested for possession of drugs and misconduct with weapons. And during this. Sit down. A detective asked Raymond to recount the day that he stopped by the house and discovered his mom and Alfonso's bodies. And while some of it did match up to what he initially said, There were two big differences this time. Now, he admitted that he did, in fact, have a gun at the time. He said that initially he'd lied because he was on probation and he didn't want to get in trouble. And he also admitted to being at the house earlier, too, but not inside of it.

[Mark Nunley]

He said, I think that they were going over again Everything that he did that day. They were trying to clarify that. And he actually did tell them, look, I wasn't completely honest because I did a drug deal during the day, and I met with somebody right near, like, basically in front of the house. And at that time, yeah, both of those cars were parked in the driveway, But I never went in. I never did anything. I just did this little drug deal and left.

[Ashley Flowers]

As the detective pushed him, he became increasingly frustrated, so much so that he decided to shut the whole conversation down. So that was it. In 2003, detectives did end up trying to talk to Victor, the guy who ended up being responsible for that separate fatal shooting, the one Debbie seemed to have tipped law enforcement off to.

[Mark Nunley]

He was actually in prison on another case on a. I think it was an aggravated assault or some other charge. He was being questioned about that initial homicide and then about knowing Raymond and having anything to do with that. And before they can get in depth with this interview, he says, I'm done with this interview, and I'm not going to tell you anything else. So they don't really get anything good from Victor during that interview.

[Ashley Flowers]

At a standstill and still feeling like they needed more from Raymond, they started going through his recorded phone conversations from jail in 2004, hoping that he might just slip up and drop them, Even the slightest hint. But he didn't say anything that would help them. And so far, they've gotten no hits on anything from the crime scene either that they'd previously submitted for testing. So a detective giving the case files some facetime, resubmitted some of the evidence to see if new technology could shake something loose from their old evidence.

[Mark Nunley]

Some results came back in 2010 from DNA on that wooden stick. But at that time in 2010, the technology wasn't good enough to separate the DNA samples because there was multiple samples, you know, multiple profiles.

[Ashley Flowers]

Other detectives came along over the years and did the same thing, Tried to give the case fresh eyes and attention, tried seeing what could be done. But for 15 more years, there was nothing to push things ahead. Well, flash forward to present day. Our reporting team came along asking about this case because we'd noticed that it was one that hadn't got much media attention in a really long time. Detective Nunley picked up the case to conduct a review of his own. Prior to our trip out to Phoenix, he's already started knocking out things like entering the casings into nibin, Rerunning prints through ngi, and re interviewing several people close to this case. And maybe most importantly, he is going to work on getting some items retested including that wooden dowel from the broken window, which, by the way, seems probative. We don't think it was part of the window that was frequently touched. So to find it that day and on the ground outside of the home really seems promising.

[Mark Nunley]

Definitely looking at, like, mvac, we have new technology that can separate multiple profiles on one item. Just a few years ago, that wasn't a possibility. You'd get multiple profiles and it was like, good luck. This is mixed. Nowadays, we're able to separate some of those profiles depending on this type of sample.

[Ashley Flowers]

Our reporting team tried reaching out to both of Debbie's adult children, Jenna and Raymond. And while they both were responsive at first and seemed open to participating in this podcast, ultimately they stopped responding to us and didn't end up following through. It's hard to imagine that they don't want to be part of helping us figure this thing out, of finding answers these other loved ones won't ever stop searching for. Here is Debbie's niece, Becca again.

[Becca]

She would always tell me, like, I can't wait for you to graduate. I can't wait for you to have babies. So I have four babies. Then I lost my husband and my daughter. But the daughter that I lost, she was my third. And she came out, she was tiny like me, but she was very dark skinned and straight black hair. And we always used to say, like, she had to be apart from Thea. Yeah, and her middle name was. Her name was Amelia Joy, and my Thea was Deborah Joy. So I gave her my Thea's middle name.

[Ashley Flowers]

Alfonso's mom and sister carry the weight of what happened to their son and brother every single day. I mean, literally, they wear Alfonso's ashes on chains around their wrists and neck as a constant reminder.

[Muriel]

We're siblings. You can't. It's not like you can just forget about it. I mean, it's a part of you. It's like somebody cutting off your arm. You always remember you had an arm. No matter what, you learned to live, but you still, you miss it, you know? Sorry for your loss. Anytime I hear that it doesn't mean anything. And I mean nothing. Why? Because there's no words you can possibly say. There's nothing anyone can do. The void from that minute that you hear it is the blackest, darkest, deepest void. If you were close to them that you will ever have.

[Ashley Flowers]

If you know anything about the murders of Alphonso McCoy Jr. And Deborah Debbie Gomez in February 2001 in Phoenix, Arizona, you can anonymously contact Silent Witness at 480-948-6377 or toll free at 1-800-343-TIPS. They also have a website, silentwitness.org and if you're comfortable reaching out to Detective Nunley directly so they know who is coming forward with the information, we're going to have his information in the show. Notes the Deck is an audio Chuck production with Emusic by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about the Deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com so what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? I'm investigative journalist and former Deputy Sheriff Scott Weinberg. And I'm Anna Segan Nicolasi, former New York City homicide prosecutor. Each week on our podcast Anatomy of Murder, we give you the inside perspective as we dissect the layers of each case, the victim, the crime and the investigation. You'll hear from victims, loved ones and those actually involved in the journeys to justice. Because the heart of each of these cases and this podcast is people listen to Anatomy of Murder now wherever you listen to podcasts.