Anne Paetz (7 of Clubs, Michigan)

Summary

The Deck: Episode Summary – Anne Pates (7 of Clubs, Michigan)

Release Date: October 16, 2024

In this compelling episode of The Deck, host audiochuck delves into the haunting cold case of Anne Pates, also known as the 7 of Clubs from Michigan. This detailed summary encapsulates the key points, discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn from the investigation surrounding Anne's tragic disappearance and murder.

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Introduction to Anne Pates

Anne Pates was a vibrant 23-year-old college student living with her family in Saginaw, Michigan. Known for her high energy and carefree spirit, Anne was a recent college graduate working as a saleswoman at a local car dealership. Her life took a tragic turn on July 2, 1999, when she disappeared under mysterious circumstances, leading to her eventual discovery as a victim of a brutal crime.

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The Night of July 2, 1999

Anne's last known movements paint a picture of a typical evening that turned sinister. After work, Anne called her boyfriend, John, intending to discuss car troubles but only managed to make two unsuccessful calls at 1:27 AM and 1:33 AM. Shortly after, she informed her brother, Adam, that she was going out to get cigarettes—a decision that would cost her life.

Notable Quote:

"That's the worst day of my life." – Jason Pates, Anne's brother [10:14]

Anne was last seen leaving her home in her mother's 1995 Ford Contour late at night, a behavior not uncommon for her. However, this night was different, marking the last time anyone saw her alive.

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Discovery of the Abandoned Car and Anne’s Body

Early the next morning, Anne's mother, Janet, received a call from a police officer about her abandoned car on the highway in Genesee County—20 miles from their home. Concerned, Janet went to retrieve the car, only to realize that Anne was missing.

Subsequently, the body of a young woman was found less than 10 miles from where Anne's car was discovered. The woman was severely injured, with multiple stab wounds, and was unable to provide any identification. This discovery prompted immediate police involvement, linking the abandoned car to Anne's disappearance.

Notable Quote:

"If something were to come about, it would mean the world to my mom and dad and my brother... It would mean closure." – Jason Pates [40:30]

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Initial Investigation and Suspect: Jack Hall

The initial investigation focused on Anne's boyfriend, John, and her friend Max, both of whom provided alibis and passed polygraph tests. As detectives sought other leads, attention turned to Jack Hall, a local man with a history of sexual assault and a penchant for impersonating police officers.

Hall became a prime suspect after:

• Inconsistent DNA Evidence: While Hall's DNA matched previous assaults, it did not match the trace DNA found on Anne's ring. Detectives speculated this might be due to a first responder's involvement or pre-existing DNA at the scene.

• Impeccable Alibi: Despite his alibi initially holding, Hall's suspicious behavior during the investigation, including fleeing and attempting to hide, raised further suspicions.

Notable Quote:

"When you get stabbed in the face, it's typically personal." – Detective [19:17]

Ultimately, Hall was convicted for unrelated sexual assaults but could not be conclusively linked to Anne's murder due to insufficient evidence.

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Cold Case Efforts and Ongoing Investigation

Despite the initial dead-end, the Michigan State Police maintained their commitment to solving Anne's case. Over the years, advancements in technology and the formation of a cold case team in 2022 renewed efforts to uncover new leads.

Key initiatives included:

• Reprocessing Evidence: Utilizing modern forensic techniques to re-examine existing evidence, though no new DNA matches emerged.

• Interviewing Jack Hall: Multiple attempts to interrogate Hall in prison yielded no cooperation, further complicating the case.

• Exploring Alternate Theories: Investigators considered the possibility of additional victims, hinted at by the discovery of multiple IDs in Hall's possession during his youth.

Notable Quote:

"We don't stop investigating homicide cases. We don't quit." – Sergeant Mark Reeves [32:49]

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Current Status and Call for Closure

Twenty-three years after Anne's murder, the case remains unsolved, leaving her family without the closure they desperately seek. The cold case team continues to explore every possible lead, including potential familial DNA matches once technology permits.

Community Involvement: The episode emphasizes the importance of community participation in solving cold cases. Listeners are encouraged to provide any information that could aid the investigation, as even the smallest clue might be pivotal.

Notable Quote:

"Any little thing could be pieced together to help this go in a direction that we don't know that it needs to get taken." – Jason Pates [40:30]

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Conclusion

Anne Pates' case is a sobering reminder of the enduring pain caused by unsolved crimes. The Deck presents a thorough examination of the investigative efforts, challenges faced, and the unwavering dedication of law enforcement to bring justice to Anne and her family. The episode serves as both a tribute to Anne and a call to action for the community to assist in uncovering the truth behind her untimely death.

If you possess any information related to Anne Pates' case or the criminal activities of Jack Duane Hall, you are encouraged to contact Crime Stoppers of Flint and Genesee County at 1-800-422-5245 or visit their website for anonymous reporting.

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The Deck continues to shed light on some of the coldest cases across the nation, collaborating with investigators and families to seek justice for the victims.

Transcript

[Narrator]

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[Jason Pates]

Ma came into my bedroom and she's like, you gotta come with me, something's wrong. I said, all right, what do you mean? She's like, ann never came home last night.

[Narrator]

That's Ann's brother, Jason. He said he could tell his mom was nervous that morning, and he knew the situation was a bit strange, but honestly, he didn't think that much of it. Ann was an adult. She was often out doing her own thing, and she didn't always tell her family exactly where she was. Here's Jason again, talking with his sister Laura. Annie knew how to have great fun. You know, she liked to have fun.

[Jason Pates]

And yeah, she liked to party.

[Narrator]

She just had a free spirit. Jason also knew that even though Ann's car was at home, she was having trouble with it the day before. So he figured that she probably borrowed their mom's car to run to the store or maybe visit her boyfriend who lived a few towns over. In fact, it sounded like the car was actually parked just outside of the trailer park where Ann's boyfriend lived on Vienna Road.

[Jason Pates]

Borrowing Ma's car was normal, but she had to get to work in the morning. So for the car to still not be there in the morning. Like, that's absolutely unacceptable. Like, how's mom going to get to work?

[Narrator]

Jason and Janet met police on the side of the highway at around 6am Police explained to them that they'd found the empty car parked in an acceleration lane. It was off, but the doors were unlocked and the key was still in the ignition. So police actually had gotten into the car, started it up, and moved it off the road so it wouldn't cause a hazard. Officers also said that the driver's side window was rolled halfway down and there was a small dent in the back quarter panel, which Janet said wasn't there the day before. None of this information was doing anything to reassure Janet. She still had thoughts about Ann racing in the back of her mind, but for one reason or another, she didn't think to bring it up with the officers just yet. She was probably trying to reassure herself that she was just overthinking this, like her aunt had to be just fine. Here's Michigan State Police Detective Sergeant Bill Arndt.

[Advertiser]

Nobody thought at that time when the car was found anything was wrong.

[Narrator]

Now, this part is a little fuzzy for the family to try and recount, but the detectives were able to fill in some of the blanks based on old reports. So according to what they have, it seems like Janet and Jason took the car and headed home, but not before stopping at a mechanic to check out what they thought might have been a bad tire. Apparently, like Ann's car, Janet's car had been having issues too. So they probably figured why not just take care of it while it was fresh on the mind. The issue they thought they had with the tire actually ended up being mechanical. So they left the car at the shop and then made it home at around 7:45 in the morning. Now, we can't be sure, but we can assume Janet likely got ready and headed to work, hoping that Ann would show up later and explain the whole car debacle. And about that same time, a woman named Karen was heading out for her morning jog on none other than Vienna Road. Everything was going as usual for her until Karen passed by what she thought, or perhaps hoped was a mannequin lying face down in the grass. But my crime junkies listening know it's never a mannequin. Now, Karen wasn't really up for investigating the situation further on her own, but she did find it odd enough to relay the information to her husband when she got home.

[Detective]

The husband then drives up to the scene, observes it, realizes that it is a person, and goes To a local residency to have them call 911 to report the body.

[Narrator]

That's Michigan State Police Detective Sergeant Dave Revard, our reporter, interviewed him and Detective Sergeant Arndt together, so you'll hear both of their voices throughout this episode. Anyway, about half an hour after the 911 call, police arrived at the scene. And keep in mind, it's only about 10 miles from where Janet's abandoned car was found earlier that morning.

[Detective]

It's not like a rural country road. This is something that receives a lot of traffic 24 hours a day, just.

[Advertiser]

A couple of feet off the road. So, you know, during the daylight hours, it's probably everyone would see it. It wasn't like somebody tried to hide the body. They didn't drag it off the road. Somebody very quickly stopped, pushed the body. And, you know, it wasn't a ditch. It was simply just a. Just off the road.

[Narrator]

The sight so many people had probably passed by that morning without even knowing was gruesome. They reported that the woman's clothes and she was fully clothed were soaked in blood, and it all seemed to be coming from her face and her neck. Her shirt was pulled up ever so slightly, but police said it looked like it could have come from being dragged onto the grass. Police also found what looked like ligature marks around the woman's wrists. What they didn't find, though, was anything that could help them identify her.

[Detective]

She didn't have her driver's license or anything with her. So first responders have a young female with unknown identity, which they now have to research, so it's reported as a Jane Doe. At the same time, you have the parents now calling in a missing person, saying, we got our car back, but we're missing our daughter.

[Narrator]

After Janet had made that call, it didn't take long for police to put two and two together. Our aunt Sandra was the detective in saginaw at the time, and I know she went and identified her from my parents.

[Jason Pates]

I remember it was a beautiful day. It was about the perfect summer day. That's one thing I remember sitting out on the back deck thinking, how can this be such a beautiful day? And this is the worst day of my life.

[Narrator]

Now police had to do some backtracking. They needed to process the abandoned car scene for evidence. They also needed to process the car, which they had willingly handed over to Janet just hours earlier. Everyone's got a thing, whether it's vinyl records, sneakers, or sports memorabilia. And talking to people about how you found them on ebay can quickly become your whole personality, even at 2am when you can't get your obsession off your mind, you're on ebay for sure. Scrolling your favorite seller's storefront, setting search alerts, building the watch list of your literal dreams, and making everyone in the group chat jealous. Maybe you've even gotten your bestie onto ebay too. And it's pretty likely that when they found out that they could get their favorite thing and for a good deal too, well, it's game over. And if vinyl records, the newest sneaker drops, and sports memorabilia aren't your thing, the best part about ebay is that it doesn't matter what you're into. Designer watches, car parts, vintage furniture. It's all there. You might just discover your next passion on ebay too. So go find the things that keep you up at night. Ebay. Things people love For a gift that is always on time and lasts a lifetime, you can't do better than Masterclass. Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200 plus of the world's best instructors. Learn from any Masterclass instructor anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart tv, or even in audio mode. With Masterclass, your loved ones can learn from the best to become their best. And listen, you're clearly a crime junkie. I bet you have crime junkies in your life. They have masterclasses from people like John Douglas, one of the fathers of the bau. I mean, take it from me, in another life, I wanted to be a profiler. Well, welcome to Masterclass. In this life, I. I can be. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com deck for the current offer. That's up to 50% [e-mail] deck masterclass.com deck with two separate sites to analyze and a 10 mile stretch of highway to cover, responding detectives realized that they needed to call for some backup.

[Advertiser]

Our agency is quite large, so there were multiple detectives, multiple troops. They canvassed the two blocks that encompassed where her body was found. They went to all the trailers at the local trailer park and all those houses, probably 100 different residences that they attempted to contact. So they did quite a bit of work in those initial hours of trying.

[Narrator]

To come up with anything right off the bat. They received tons of tips. It turned out several people in the area saw Janet's car parked on the highway that morning. One woman reported that she also saw a separate vehicle, one she described as a blue pickup truck with cab lights parked behind it. She even thought she Might have seen two people standing between the vehicles. But she said she didn't pay much attention, probably not thinking anything was seriously wrong at the time. Another person who lived in the area near where Ann's body was found told detectives that she was woken up by her dog's barking at something like 7:30 in the morning. And when she went to go see what it was, she saw a vehicle driving very slowly down the road. She also described that vehicle as a pickup truck with cab lights, but in her recollection, it was red and white, not blue. As for Janet's car, it was kind of a bust. When investigators combed through it, they found Ann's wallet and a fresh pack of cigarettes inside, but no id. In fact, to this day, Ann's ID has never been recovered. And the only unidentified print that they found on the car turned out to belong to the mechanic, the one that Janet confirmed she had taken the car to directly from the scene that morning. The only potential clue that they gathered on the car car was from some fresh grass and mud around the tires, which didn't really add up because the area on the highway that they found it on was completely paved. Actually, the whole way from Saginaw to Genesee county is all paved highway. Detectives also said that there were some partial tire impressions in the road where Ann's body was found, which they looked into. But because it was such a public road, there wasn't much they could do to definitively connect them to this case. So the next logical step in their investigation became clear.

[Detective]

Due to where her body was in the vehicle, it left a lot of unanswered questions right away. So now the investigation begins with trying to figure out where Ann was going, the timeframe, why, and what happened to her.

[Narrator]

According to her siblings, Ann's last day alive was fairly typical. She went to work at a local car dealership where she was a saleswoman. And everyone close to Ann said she was outgoing, beautiful, and very easy to like, which sounds like a winning formula for a sales job. After work, Ann called her boyfriend, who we'll call John. She wanted to tell him she was having car trouble, but she'd maybe see him later. Then around 9pm she went out to a bar with a friend who will call Max. Newspapers at the time reported that this meetup was a date, but we actually know from our reporting that the pair seemed to be just friends that night. They drank, they shot some pool, danced, and at 1am Max dropped Ann back home. That timeline was verified by Ann's brother Adam, who was up when she got back. The pair spoke for a bit before Ann went to her room, where she made two phone calls to her boyfriend John. One at 1:27 in the morning and another at 1:33. He didn't pick up either call. He was apparently busy playing video games and watching movies with a friend. But a few minutes after that second call, Ann came out of her room and told Adam that she was going to go get some smokes. And those were the last words he'd ever hear her say before Ann drove off in her mom's car. Investigators did find a fresh pack of cigarettes in Janet's car when they processed it, so they knew Ann must have picked some up that night, but they didn't know exactly where. So they started canvassing practically every place in between. And they got lucky in two spots or maybe two spots.

[Advertiser]

So they think they see her at the 711 close to her house. They also find some video at Conley's, which is a gas station convenience store on 57, and eventually determine that there is also a lookalike there that could be Ann. But again, the video is terrible, so they can't 100% verify that it was her.

[Narrator]

Those sightings of Ann on video at the two convenience stores are murky, and statements from employees at the stores couldn't confirm that either sighting was definitely Ann. So police were basically forced to move on. And because of the calls that Ann made to John and the location of the abandoned car near his trailer park, most arrows were pointing directly to him.

[Advertiser]

Of course, he became suspect number one originally, and our detectives went and spoke with him almost immediately once they learned about him.

[Narrator]

John said he was home all night with his mom, dad, and a friend who could all corroborate his story. He also agreed to sit for a polygraph test. And though that ended up being inconclusive because his alibi checked out, he was ruled out fairly quickly. Same for Max, who passed a polygraph and had an alibi that checked out, too. So just as quick as the investigation got started, it was feeling like maybe they were going to hit a wall with John and Max. Pretty much ruled out. Police didn't know who else to look at. Like I mentioned, Ann was a likable person, in her brother's words. Nobody hated Ann, quote, not a single person. She would just go make friends with everybody. End quote. So investigators turned their attention to the autopsy, which came back the next day, and it actually brought a few important things to light. First, the cause of death was extremely violent. Multiple stab wounds to the Head, face and neck, which led to significant blood loss.

[Advertiser]

When you get stabbed in the face, it's typically personal. If I stab you in the back, eh, we didn't even know each other, right? But if I stab you in the face, it's typically personal.

[Narrator]

Secondly, the autopsy revealed that Ann had defensive wounds on her forearms, wrists, and hands. She also had a BAC of 15 at the time of autopsy, which was almost double the legal driving limit. And for a 5 2, 110 pound petite girl like Ann, that indicated that she was likely a bit intoxicated when she was attacked, but clearly not too drunk to fight back.

[Detective]

So if she realized that she was in a bad situation, she wasn't just going to submit to it. She'd most likely put up a fight.

[Narrator]

Depending on the ultimate motive, that fight could have warded off a potential sexual assault, because the autopsy confirmed what detectives at the scene predicted, that Ann didn't appear to have been sexually assaulted. Everything she'd been wearing was collected and analyzed, but most of it was saturated in her blood. And I say most, but not all. There was one spot on a ring that Ann was wearing where her blood was not present, but someone else's was. Now, there were only trace amounts, but it was enough to pull a profile from and enter into codis, which they did immediately. But unfortunately and unsurprisingly, or we wouldn't be here, they didn't get a hit. Though I will say I don't think that carries the same heft as it might today. CODIS was only officially implemented a year before Ann's murder, so it wasn't necessarily shocking that the blood on her ring didn't come up with a match. Then, on July 6, four days after Ann's murder, investigators decided to really step things up. Along with putting out a Crime Stoppers Alert, they assembled a task force with 15 detectives from a bunch of different agencies to look into nearby crimes that could be connected. And they hugely expanded the scope of the investigation.

[Advertiser]

They then started looking at friends and friends of friends and people she met at the bar that night and her past history. Were there other people that could have become suspects in this crime? They just didn't sit on their heels. And this wasn't just something sitting on the shelf. They really did a really concerted effort of locating anybody that had any connection with Ann or any of her friends at all.

[Narrator]

They even went as far as to track down Ann's high school friends and people she'd recently sold cars to.

[Advertiser]

So as part of the task force, they came up with a tip line, and we have a binder with who knows if this is all of them, but 2000 tips, maybe. I mean, that's all tips. And they're probably. I know how detectives are, so they're probably not all in there, but that is all just a tips that came in. And so not only are they investigating any evidence or people from the crime scene, they're also got tips flowing in from all the media attention that it got, and they're running every single one of these tips down.

[Narrator]

In a weird twist of fate, on the same day that the task force was assembled, another young woman from Saginaw county was forced off a highway at night and sexually assaulted. So, given the timing and the location of the incidents, investigators linked the two cases and began to build a theory about an opportunistic predator who was targeting random women alone on highways at night. And their theory seemed legit when just a few weeks after that, another brutal crime was committed less than 10 miles from where Ann's body was found. It happened in a little city called Clio. This time, the victims were sisters, only 9 and 13 years old.

[Advertiser]

So he kidnaps them from a bike path, takes them just off the bike path, brutally rapes them, strangles them with their shoelaces until they're unconscious, and then he leaves them for dead. Then one of the girls wakes up, thank God, gets the other one up, and they, of course, start another investigation.

[Narrator]

Not only did both girls survive that assault, but they were also able to give a fairly detailed description of their attacker, which went out on TV and allowed detectives to zero in on a man who the Detroit Free Press reported at the time as being Jack Hall. He was a local man that owned a floor resurfacing business and happened to live in the same apartment complex as the sisters. Now, I want to make it abundantly clear Arndt and Ravard were not the ones to give us the name Jack Hall. They would only refer to him by a pseudonym of James during our interview. However, based on our research and previous reporting that was done, we were able to figure out that Jack hall had to be the person they were referring to. So police wanted to track down Jack hall asap, not only to see if he was responsible for the brutal attack on those young sisters, but also Ann's murder and that other similar case. But it wasn't going to be that easy.

[Detective]

When they go knock on the door, they say, hey, we'd like to talk to you regarding your vehicle, because the.

[Advertiser]

Vehicle had a bad plate on it.

[Detective]

Or something like that. So he's like, oh no, something's up. So instead of talking to the police about a bad plate, he flees, jumps out the window, runs and hides, goes several miles to his parents house and.

[Narrator]

Then a manhunt ensued. When Joe was little, Eric and I used to hate the saying that every parent told us the days are long but the years are short. But now Jo is about to turn three and it's so true. I am so grateful for every moment we have captured. Which is why this is my psa. To those with or expecting babies, Nanit Baby Monitor is an absolute must have baby product. The high def camera captures every precious moment and allows you to see your baby from anywhere, anytime, all on the Nanit app. Nanit allows you to track your baby's breathing, sleep patterns and developmental milestones, and even gives you personalized insights. This adds up to more sleep for your baby and more rest for you. In fact, Nanit parents get an extra 36 nights of sleep a year, and Nanit babies sleep 10% longer than average. The Nanit Baby Monitor won over 25 awards in 2024 alone from sources like Wirecutter, Parents Magazine, and more. The Nanit Baby Monitor is the MVP of baby gear. It's the one baby item you won't be able to live without. And of course, we have a special offer just for our listeners. Get 20% off your first order with code DREAM20. That's D R E A M20 at Nanit now that's D R E A [e-mail] now N A N I T.com everyone's got a thing, whether it's vinyl records, sneakers, or sports memorabilia. And talking to people about how you found them on ebay can quickly become your whole personality. Even at 2am when you can't get your obsession off your mind, you're on ebay for sure. Scrolling your favorite seller's storefront, setting search alerts, building the watch list of your literal dreams, and making everyone in the group chat jealous. Maybe you've even gotten your bestie onto ebay too. And it's pretty likely that when they found out that they could get their favorite thing and for a good deal too, well, it's game over. And if vinyl records, the newest sneaker drops, and sports memorabilia aren't your thing, the best part about ebay is that it doesn't matter what you're into. Designer watches, car parts, vintage furniture. It's all there. You might just discover your next passion on ebay too. So go find the Things that keep you up at night. Ebay. Things people love. When police finally caught up with hall later that night, he was hiding out in his parents attic. And when they approached him there, he actually ended up disarming a deputy, taking her gun and. And firing off some shots. Thankfully, no one was hit, but he was able to get away. And for almost two more days, police had no idea where this guy was. But on that second day, out of the blue, hall just turned himself in. And what's even weirder is he had cut his hair and shaved like he was trying to change his appearance, which is usually what someone does when they're trying to avoid being caught, not in preparation to turn themselves in.

[Detective]

The explanation is that he wanted to look good for the media because they knew they were looking for him. So he cuts his hair in, shaves, puts on clean clothes for their appearance.

[Narrator]

When police charged hall with the attempted murder and sexual assault of the sisters, based on their testimony, they took his DNA and put it into codis. And lo and behold, there was a match. It wasn't a match for Ann's case, though, or the other Saginaw woman. It was actually DNA taken from a crime committed six years prior, when hall abducted a woman named Heidi as she was leaving work, pulled her into the woods, tied her up, sexually assaulted her, and left her for dead. But little did he know, she survived and was able to tell her story. Now, just because Hall's DNA didn't match the trace amounts of DNA on Ann's ring doesn't mean they were ready to write him off. Especially because they'd been direct comparing everyone in the case to that ring by this point, like 70 people. But nothing had popped up. Which made them start to wonder if it really was the killer's DNA at all.

[Detective]

When you read the report, it's like, oh, gee, we got the killer's DNA on the ring, and what we've learned is, no, we have a person's DNA. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be our killer.

[Narrator]

Detectives began to theorize that the blood could have come from a first responder who maybe had been cut while moving Ann's body. Or it could have been there before the incident. But none of that meant that hall was off the hook. There were too many other consistencies, or maybe you want to call them coincidences. If they were going to rule him out, it needed to be, because they could prove he didn't do it.

[Detective]

And this is where the tip comes in. That they now realize that he has two vehicles One being a white Pontiac and the other one being a blue vehicle that matches what a witness said was parked behind her car. And now the state police are like, wait a minute. There's too many consistencies of, could he be responsible? So now he's a target for Ann.

[Narrator]

So they zeroed in on his vehicles, getting a warrant to search both of Hall's cars, A white Pontiac and a blue pickup truck. At that point, it had been about a month since Ann's murder. But the idea was, if detectives could find any evidence that Ann had been in his truck at all, they'd have enough to make a case against Hall. But when they brought Hall's truck to the lab, they found out that while the outside of it was rough and dirty, the inside was immaculately clean, like, spotless. Of course, that looked a bit suspicious to detectives, but you can't charge someone for cleaning their car. So they got a warrant to search Hall's home. It's there that they found Heidi's computer and ID but nothing belonging to Ann or the Clio girls, for that matter. At that point, they didn't feel like there was much else they could do to try and connect Jack hall to Ann. Pay nothing except for waiting for a new tip or lead. About a year later, In June of 2000, Jack hall was convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the assaults of Heidi and the young girls. According to detectives, Ann's case sort of started to stall out after that. I mean, they were convinced that hall was responsible, but there just wasn't enough evidence to charge him. Still, even with no new leads, Michigan State Police refused to give up. Quoted in the Battle Creek Inquirer In 2000, Sergeant Mark Reeves, a state detective from the Flint Post, said, quote, if anybody is looking over their shoulder, they better continue to do that. We don't stop investigating homicide cases. We don't quit. They've been investigated by people here before me, by me, by the guys who someday will replace me, end quote. And actually, the Michigan State Police have a policy where if a case is inactive, it still has to be reviewed every six months by detectives just to make sure nothing ever slips through the cracks. And, like, just putting it out there. Could every department please enact that policy?

[Detective]

So somebody's always reading it, looking at it, seeing did somebody miss something. So throughout the years, it wasn't just put on a shelf. It was continuously reviewed to see if anything could be done.

[Narrator]

With technology changing, Ann's case was reviewed and re reviewed and re reviewed again nearly 50 times over the course of 20 years with no real breakthroughs. But things were about to be taken up a notch, because in 2022, nearly 23 years after Ann's murder, the saginaw district formed an official cold case team with the sole purpose of doubling down on the district's 93 inactive cases. And they started with Ann's.

[Detective]

But I think bill and I looked at it, we took it on as approach. We'll just start right from scratch, Interview family, including the victims, Do a victimology, do our own. Not just rely on what was in the report, but let's do our own and come up with our own conclusion. So I started again. It was like, nobody's a suspect. Let's develop our own.

[Advertiser]

So we literally took the evidence from this case down to our lab, and we had our lab and us go through every piece of evidence. So literally hundreds of man hours to reprocess the evidence of this case.

[Narrator]

Reprocessing all of the evidence didn't result in any new DNA, though. They just had that same profile that was still unidentified Some 20 years on. So the detectives decided to go interview Jack hall in prison Three times. They said they wanted to try and build some sort of rapport before they asked him about Ann.

[Advertiser]

We went back a third time, and at that point, we were going to confront him with the evidence that we had and see what he said. And that lasted five minutes. And he threw us out. Well, he tried to throw us out, but it's a prison, so he couldn't really throw us out, but he didn't want to talk to us anymore, so we haven't been back since.

[Narrator]

That only made detectives more motivated to dig into hall. They wanted to start from scratch with him. That meant re interviewing his neighbors, his family, Anyone close, close to him. And things only got more disturbing from there. First, there were hall's neighbors who said they found what the detectives referred to as a sexual predator kit in the woods by his property. It was essentially a backpack with handcuffs, restraints, lube, and sex toys. And then there was hall's brother, who let detectives know about hall's side job as a security guard, which came with a pseudo law enforcement uniform, Including a belt, a baton, and handcuffs.

[Detective]

So you could look like a policeman. Pretty easy. And he was doing that as well.

[Narrator]

There were no official reports of hall pretending to be a police officer, but there were other witness accounts from around the same time Ann was killed, where women described some man matching the physical description of Jack hall Impersonating an officer in an attempt to pull them over at night. Do I need to refer to yet another crime junkie life rule? It is okay to keep going and pull over somewhere public where you feel safe if you question the legitimacy of who is trying to pull you over. Not something everyone could do in the 90s, but if you have a cell phone now, you also have the power to protect yourself from these guys and call 911. Make sure it is actually police pulling you over anyway. Hall's brother also told detectives that back in the early 90s when he and Jack were living at their parents house, the same house that Jack hall fled to. When police confronted him, he said there was this cubby hole in a little room above the garage where they would stash their weed.

[Detective]

As he was looking for the stash, he came across the four IDs, women's driver's license, which he didn't recognize, didn't know what to do cause he's younger at that time, gave him to his mother and then they disappeared. And then his mother's deceased now too. So we can't interview to find out what happened to those.

[Narrator]

If you recall, Ann's ID was never found. So it seemed very plausible to investigators that one of these licenses could have been hers. But there wasn't really any way to find out. Detectives even went back to that house, which Hall's parents no longer lived in, and searched it to try and find this cubby. But it turned out that the new owners were remodeling and the inside of the house was all torn down. So once again, the case sort of stalled out. As for Jack hall now, well, he's currently serving a life sentence at the Thumb Correctional Facility in Michigan for those other crimes that we talked about unrelated to Ann's. And P.S. our reporter got her hands on some documents that show hall tried appealing the charges related to the little sisters, Ann, Heidi, but nothing ever stuck. He is still behind bars. So we tried sending him a letter asking about his possible involvement in Ann's murder and if he'd be willing to write back and talk to us. But as of this recording, that hasn't happened. He hasn't responded. Now, given that Hall's brother mentioned finding the IDs of four women, detectives think that there could also be other victims out there, ones that Hull has never officially been connected to. And so these detectives are staying the course.

[Detective]

We've looked at every possible piece of evidence that's available to us today with today's technology to cross reference to see if we can develop something new. And we've utilized everything that we Can.

[Advertiser]

For years, we have tried to get the DNA that was on ansring tested with familial genealogy. We know that that DNA can be sent to an outside lab like Othram, be processed, and come back with a genealogy which may be able to get us to a family. However, the DNA that was found on Ann's ring was not a lot of DNA. And unfortunately, technology at this point in time doesn't allow the exam us to get genealogy or a good enough sample to then send to Othram. So Othram and our lab have advised us we need to wait more time because if we take that sample now, it's done. It will only happen this time, and if we don't get anything, there's no more of it. And so they've had told us that in the future, when technology becomes better for DNA, that they may be able to process that. So we will wait for that and eventually that will get processed, but we don't know what that timeline will be.

[Narrator]

In the meantime, detectives partnered with students in Western Michigan University's Cold Case program to analyze unfollowed leads, map possible routes Ann took the evening she was killed, and digitize her entire case file. They're still holding out, though, for someone, something really anything, to rise to the surface.

[Advertiser]

Somebody knows something, right? I would like to think that somebody, whoever the suspect is, told somebody something. And I'd like to think that eventually we'll get a tip and be able to close it for the family.

[Narrator]

Ann's family wants that more than anything. Here's her brother Jason again.

[Jason Pates]

If something were to come about, I think that would mean the world to my mom and dad and my brother, because they are still seeking closure, and that can only be found in police work. You know, this still affects us every single day. It will always be there in an underlying way that will affect me still for the rest of my life. And if it affects me, I know that it affects my family, how it affects my mom and dad and brother, who they're still working through it, it would mean the world to them to have some kind of closure, because I made peace with it. But it's taken a lot of work to get there. And so to have some kind of closure, if you have any kind of information, any little bit, no matter how small, like if you were there at the bar with her that night, you might know, you may have heard her say something. Any little thing could be pieced together to help this go in a direction that we don't know that it needs to get taken. So no matter how little, something would be immensely helpful to get some closure.

[Narrator]

If you know anything about the 1999 murder of Ann Pates in Michigan, or if you have any information regarding possible criminal activity relating to Jack Duane hall, you can anonymously report information to Crime Stoppers of Flint and Genesee county at 1-800-422-5245 or on their website, which I'll put in the Show Notes. Now. Crime Stoppers keeps everyone anonymous whether you want to be or not. So if you don't mind revealing your identity or you want to speak directly to a detective and get some follow up, you can email msp-coldcaseichigan.gov to get in touch with the investigators. Again, all that information will be in the Show Notes. The Deck is an Audio Chuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about the Deck and our advocacy work, visit the deck podcast.com so what do you think Chuck? Do you approve with the five dollar meal deal at McDonald's? You pick a McDouble or a McChicken, then get a small fry, a small drink and a four piece McNuggets. That's a lot of McDonald's for nothing.

[Detective]

A lot of money.

[Narrator]

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