The Deck – Charles “Chuck” McGraw (10 of Spades, Indiana)

Podcast: The Deck
Host: Ashley Flowers (audiochuck)
Episode Date: November 26, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the unsolved 1988 murder of Charles “Chuck” McGraw, the food services director at St. Francis Hospital in Beech Grove, Indiana. Known for his charisma and generosity—but also for mysterious sources of income—McGraw's death left investigators with a tangled web of possible motives involving gambling, workplace disputes, and potential organized crime ties. Using interviews, case archives, and rarely-heard audio clips, host Ashley Flowers and guests dissect the complicated life and suspicious death of McGraw, in hopes of stirring memories and encouraging leads from listeners.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Discovery of Charles McGraw’s Body ([01:49] – [04:51])

• Setting: October 7, 1988 – The second floor of the St. Francis Hospital parking garage, Beech Grove, Indiana.
• Nurse Carla Feliciano discovers McGraw slumped in his car, deceased from multiple gunshot wounds: chest, abdomen, and neck. Notably, his car is idling, and his left arm is between his legs, with blood visible.
• Police recognize McGraw immediately due to his popularity at the hospital.

2. Possible Robbery Motive ([05:05] – [07:09])

• Pocket turned out, empty money clip—police suspect robbery.
• McGraw was known never to be without cash ($2,000 withdrawn every Friday). No cash is recovered from the scene, but valuable items (Seiko watch, gold coin ring) are left behind.
• Peculiar that in a noisy garage, no gunshots or struggle were reported.

  “The garage is very noisy, but nothing was heard. No struggle heard, no gunshots reported, anything like that.” —Captain Matt Hickey [07:00]

3. Crime Scene Reconstruction & Ballistics ([07:09] – [08:20])

• Evidence points to the killer shooting McGraw while seated in the passenger seat, then exiting, shooting him again from the driver’s side, and leaving quietly.
• All bullets matched a .38 caliber revolver—a common weapon at the time.

4. Suspicion Falls on Robert Mann ([08:20] – [11:52])

• Robert Mann: Former close friend and “right-hand man,” recently unreliable at work, suspected by colleagues of drug use, and with a prior (dismissed) assault charge.
• Audio is played from Mann’s 1988 police interview:

  “They were sort of in discussions that they were at least going to bring Robert Mann in on Monday to discuss his work-related issues.” —Captain Matt Hickey [09:06]

• Mann had been lent money by McGraw; their relationship was personal and financial.

5. Robert Mann’s Police Interview ([13:12] – [16:14])

• Mann claims to have seen McGraw the morning of the murder in the garage. States he borrowed money from McGraw and did "errands" for him but is vague on specifics.

  “I did a lot of errands and whatever, you know, I might not be saying it right, but that's all I could say.” —Robert Mann [15:53]

• Mann also admits to knowing about McGraw's gambling habits and large weekly cash bets.

6. Gambling and Side Hustles: Motive for Murder? ([16:14] – [22:26])

• McGraw’s children recall lavish spending—indicative of income beyond a hospital director’s salary.

  “We stayed at the Ritz Carlton, and he would give us, I'll say, three to $500 at a time to go shopping.” —Annette McGraw [17:00]

• Investigators find sports betting cards in McGraw’s desk, bet slips, and a phone number traced to a known bookie.
• Mann admits McGraw was making and taking large bets, possibly operating as a bookie himself—handling thousands weekly.

  “You talking about thousands of dollars.” —Detective Schroyer
  “Chicken feed. That's what I'm calling.” —Robert Mann [19:41]

7. Possible Hospital Corruption & Kickbacks ([21:26] – [23:56])

• Allegations arise that McGraw took kickbacks on hospital contracts and was skimming supplies for off-book catering using hospital food. Food service costs dropped by $400,000 after his death.

  “In the year after Charles McGraw's homicide, it was noted that the food service cost for St. Francis Hospital dropped like $400,000.” —Captain Matt Hickey [23:18]

8. A New Witness Emerges: Holly Wilson ([24:14] – [27:36])

• 16-year-old Holly Wilson tells police she saw McGraw with a white male (late 20s/early 30s, sporty “Vegas casual” dress) in the car shortly before his estimated time of death.
  • This casts doubt on Mann (who is Black) as the suspect seen with McGraw.

9. Sketch, Suspects, and Investigative Dead Ends ([27:36] – [35:49])

• Police composite sketch is released; hundreds respond with tips.
• Kimberly Gann recognizes the sketch as her estranged husband, Robert Gann (not to be confused with Robert Mann), a disgraced ex-state trooper rumored to have personal issues, including possible violence and a motive related to a suspected affair between his wife and McGraw.
• Gann cooperates, offers an alibi (working at FedEx during the murder window), and is ultimately dismissed:

  “Detective Schroyer sort of got the feeling that Robert Gann was kind of a young, arrogant police officer, or ex police officer, but not a murderer.” —Captain Matt Hickey [35:26]

10. Case File Issues and Forensic Evidence ([35:49] – [39:59])

• The case file is described as disorganized—leads scattered, follow-ups unclear.
• Prints from the scene were compared with a short list but otherwise languished; none matched national databases; bullets entered in the ballistics system produced no leads.
• Notably, no known direct comparison of prints/DNA to Robert Mann or Robert Gann.
• Recent developments: McGraw’s daughters pushed for DNA testing on preserved clothing, which is being pursued decades later.

11. Family Reflections, Unsolved Status, and Call to Action ([39:59] – [41:02])

• Investigators maintain gambling as the most likely motive, though specifics are elusive due to the secretive, criminal nature of underground betting.
• Family remembers McGraw for his generosity, fun-loving nature, and community ties.

  “Everyone loved him because, yeah, he was fun, he was jovial, he was outgoing… just crazy fun stuff and someone took his life.” —Annette McGraw [40:33]

• Listeners urged to come forward with tips, even if seemingly insignificant.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Robbery Motive:
  “That man never had an empty money clip… No money was found anywhere in the car.” —Ashley Flowers [05:05]

• Robert Mann’s Relationship with Charles:
  “Would you say you were close to him?” —Detective Schroyer [15:37]
  “Very close.” —Robert Mann [15:39]

• Gambling Revelations:
  “He was making bets with thousands of dollars on a weekly basis.” —Ashley Flowers [19:43]

• Food Service Fraud:
  “In the year after Charles McGraw's homicide, it was noted that the food service cost for St. Francis Hospital dropped like $400,000.” —Captain Matt Hickey [23:18]

• Holly’s Eyewitness Description:
  “Holly said that the other man was white like Charles… about 6ft tall with dark hair and a light mustache… dress described as ‘Vegas casual.’” —Ashley Flowers [25:54]

• Family’s Fond Memories:
  “We stayed at the Ritz Carlton, and he would give us, I'll say, three to $500 at a time to go shopping… Liberace comes, like, flaunting through the lobby. It was amazing.” —Annette McGraw [17:00]

• Call to Action:
  “Even if you think it was insignificant and even if you still might feel that way today, we want you to come forward because it might be more important than you think it is. That's the way these cases get solved.” —Captain Matt Hickey [39:59]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Discovery & Crime Scene: [01:49] – [07:09]
• Suspicions Fall on Robert Mann: [08:20] – [13:12]
• Robert Mann’s Police Interview: [13:12] – [16:14]
• Gambling & Finances: [17:00] – [19:43]
• Kickbacks & Hospital Fraud: [21:26] – [23:56]
• Eyewitness Holly Wilson: [24:14] – [27:36]
• Composite Sketch and Robert Gann: [27:36] – [35:49]
• Case File & Forensics: [35:49] – [39:59]
• Family Reflections & Call to Action: [39:59] – [41:02]

Conclusion

The episode paints a vivid, complicated picture of Charles McGraw—a man beloved by many, but entangled in illegal gambling, mysterious money, and possible corruption. While initial suspicion fell on an aggrieved employee, subsequent eyewitness evidence and investigative dead ends have kept the case open and the true motive elusive. The episode closes (with emotional recollections from McGraw’s daughters) on a plea for community information, with the hope that new forensic testing or a fresh lead may finally unlock the truth in this decades-old Indiana cold case.

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