Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Deck – Episode: Gwendel Greenblatt (6 of Diamonds, Florida)
Host: audiochuck
Release Date: April 9, 2025

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of The Deck, host Ashley Flowers delves into the tragic and mysterious case of Gwendel Greenblatt, a 35-year-old massage therapist from West Palm Beach, Florida. As the "6 of Diamonds" on the deck symbolizes, Gwen's case has remained unsolved for years, leaving her family and friends yearning for justice.

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The Victim and Her Background

Gwendel Greenblatt, affectionately known as Gwen, was a dedicated massage therapist working at the luxurious Breakers Resort in Palm Beach. Separated from her husband, Matthew Greenblatt, Gwen had developed a close bond with her friends Christina and Sarah, who became her pillars of support during her tumultuous marriage.

Notable Quotes:

• Chad (Gwen's Brother) [25:55]: "You know, she was just like a super cool person. Everybody loved her. You know, she was just nice to everybody. A kind soul, funny, charismatic."
• Christina [04:10]: "I'm going to be in the same boat as you. I'm going to be going through a divorce and we'll just, we'll make it together, we'll make it on our own together and we'll be here for each other."

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The Day of the Murder

On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, around 3:30 PM, Gwen was driving home from work when she engaged in a conversation with her friend Christina. They were discussing Gwen's impending divorce, a conversation that highlighted the strained relationship with her husband, Matt.

Key Events:

• Phone Call Interruptions: Christina recounted how Gwen was emotionally distraught, discussing her therapist's advice about the divorce ([04:34]).

• Sudden Silence: Their conversation was abruptly cut short when Christina heard a loud scream and her dog, Shaquille, barking ([05:05]). Initially, Christina feared Gwen had fallen down the steep stairs of her apartment complex but soon realized something was terribly wrong when Gwen failed to return her calls.

Notable Quotes:

• Christina [05:05]: "So she let out this huge scream and I heard her dog barking so I knew she was home."
• Sarah [06:39]: "And the cop started to say to me, well, I don't think she's going to know."

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Initial Investigation

Upon witnessing Gwen's lifeless body with two gunshot wounds (one to the face and another to the top of her head), Detective Aaron Sam and Investigator William Frazier from the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office began piecing together the evidence.

Findings:

• Lack of Signs of Forced Entry: Gwen was found in her closet, suggesting she was ambushed.
• Dog's Behavior: Gwen's dog, Shaquille, was unharmed, leading detectives to believe the dog was familiar with the attacker.
• Bullet Casings: Found from a .380 caliber gun, indicating a probable firearm used in the attack.
• Cigarette Butts: Two butts were found outside Gwen's apartment—one still burning and another extinguished nearby.

Notable Quotes:

• William Frazier [08:45]: "Assassinated."
• Frazier [09:15]: "When they did it, like Detective Sam stated, there was personal items belonging to her, the most significant being the sweater on the floor."

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The Prime Suspect: Her Husband, Matt Greenblatt

Matthew "Matt" Greenblatt, Gwen's separated husband, emerged as the primary suspect due to multiple factors surrounding their strained relationship.

Motivations:

• Financial Stakes: The couple had a prenup wherein Matt would owe Gwen $70,000 in the event of a divorce. However, Gwen's untimely death meant Matt stood to gain financially ([21:05]).
• Controlling Behavior: Matt was known to be emotionally abusive and jealous, maintaining control over Gwen even after their separation.
• Affairs: Investigations revealed Matt was involved in multiple affairs, adding to the suspicion.

Evidence Against Matt:

• Gunshot Residue: Matt tested positive for gunpowder residue, though this evidence was deemed unreliable in court ([16:56]).
• DNA on Sweater and Cigarettes: Matt's DNA was found on Gwen's sweater and one of the cigarette butts found outside her apartment ([21:32]).

Notable Quotes:

• William Frazier [21:05]: "It's always three things. Sex, drugs, money. This murder here falls into that category. What's the answer out of the 3? Money."
• Frazier [22:36]: "Matt never, ever, ever became emotional regarding the death of his wife."

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Additional Suspects and Evidence

As the investigation progressed, another individual, Richard Engel, became a person of interest due to DNA evidence found on one of the cigarette butts. Engel, serving time in a South Carolina prison for federal fraud and with a history of violent offenses, was interrogated in 2013. However, concrete connections between Matt and Richard remained elusive.

Investigative Theories:

• Collusion Between Matt and Richard: Detectives theorized that Matt and Richard might have conspired to murder Gwen, using Richard as the gunman.
• Unresolved DNA Evidence: While Matt's DNA was linked to one cigarette butt, Richard's DNA matched another, suggesting the possibility of an accomplice or a hired gun ([31:56]).

Challenges:

• Lack of Concrete Evidence: Despite the theories, no direct evidence linked Richard to the murder, and Matt denied any involvement ([32:10]).
• Alibi Verification: Matt's alibis, such as visiting a pizza place or getting a haircut, could not be corroborated ([16:30]).

Notable Quotes:

• William Frazier [32:54]: "It looks like your DNA on that cigarette right now."
• Aaron Sam [30:06]: "This is a murder investigation."

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Current Status and Call for Information

Years of investigation have not yielded a definitive resolution to Gwen's murder. Despite the accumulation of circumstantial evidence pointing towards Matt Greenblatt, the case remains unsolved due to the lack of concrete proof and reliable alibis.

Ongoing Efforts:

• Retesting Evidence: Detectives continue to retest evidence as forensic technology advances.
• Public Assistance: The Deck urges listeners to come forward with any information that might shed light on Gwen's death.

Notable Quotes:

• Chad [41:06]: "If you really didn't have anything to do with this, why don't you give us a call?"
• Ashley Flowers [42:35]: "If you know anything about the murder of Gwendell Gwen Greenblatt... please come forward."

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Conclusion

The tragic case of Gwendel Greenblatt remains a haunting mystery within Florida's cold cases. As The Deck continues to shed light on Gwen's story, the hope is that someone listening might hold the key to finally solving this heartbreaking case and delivering the justice Gwen so desperately deserves.

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Call to Action

If you have any information regarding the murder of Gwendel Greenblatt, you can remain anonymous by calling Crime Stoppers of Palm Beach County at 1-800-458-8477. Your assistance could be pivotal in bringing closure to this enduring mystery.

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Produced by: audiochuck
Theme Music by: Ryan Lewis
Learn More: thedeckpodcast.com

Transcript

[Ashley Flowers]

Hi everyone, Ashley Flowers here. If you love diving into mysteries and exploring the unexplained, but sometimes wonder if the answers lie just beyond the edge of what we know, your next listen should be so Supernatural Every week I handpick the most bizarre, mind bending mysteries for my friends Rasha and Yvette to look into. From eerie disappearances to encounters that defy exploitation, Rasha and Yvette dive deep into every possibility paranormal, scientific and everything in between. So if you're ready to explore the unknown, then join us on so supernatural. Over 100 episodes are available now and new stories are explored every Friday. Listen to so Supernatural now Wherever you listen to podcasts, what if you could turn your curiosity for true crime into a degree at Southern New Hampshire University? You can Southern New Hampshire University offers over 200 degrees you can earn completely online, including subjects like forensic psychology, criminology and crime analysis. And with low online tuition, Southern New Hampshire University makes earning your degree affordable, flexible and achievable. Find your degree at SNHU.edu decline. That's SNHU edu dec.

[William Frazier]

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[Aaron Sam]

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[Ashley Flowers]

There's a lot to say when buying a new home or car, but only one thing to say that can help you protect them. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. And just like that, a State Farm agent will be there to help you choose the coverage you need. No matter where you are in life. When you need coverage options, your State Farm agent is there to help. On the phone or in person. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Our card this week is Gwendell Greenblatt, the 6 of diamonds from Florida. If you've ever been alone and felt like you may be in trouble, maybe you called someone, made it known that you were on the phone, made it clear that someone else was listening. But chatting on her cell while walking up to her apartment in sunny South Florida during broad daylight, Gwen couldn't have sensed that her life was in danger. And even the friend on the other end of the line had no way of stopping the evil that was lurking just behind Gwen's front door. I'm Ashley Flowers and this is the deck. It was close to 3:30 in the afternoon on Wednesday, February 5, 2003, when a woman named Christina was talking on the phone with her friend, 35 year old guy Gwendel Greenblatt. The two were catching up as Gwen was in the car making the about 20 minute drive home to West Palm beach from her job as a massage therapist at the luxurious Breakers Resort in Palm Beach. Christina and Gwen had met through their jobs at the spa, but had become increasingly close as both women's marriages unraveled. Here's Christina, she said, I'm going to.

[Christina]

Be in the same boat as you. I'm going to be going through a divorce and we'll just, we'll make it together, we'll make it on our own together and we'll be here for each other.

[Ashley Flowers]

Impending divorce was actually the topic of conversation that very day as Gwen arrived at the Royal St George apartment complex and approached unit 8312 where she lived alone, talking to Kristina along the way.

[Christina]

She knew that I had had a therapist appointment that day. So she was checking in on me, knowing that I was going through my possible divorce separation and I was very emotional and so being supportive. She was calling, checking in on me to see how my appointment was. And I was just going on and on telling her about what I had discussed with the therapist and what the therapist was telling me.

[Ashley Flowers]

And then their conversation came to a sudden and chilling halt.

[Christina]

So she let out a huge scream and I heard her dog barking so I knew she was home. She lived on the top floor and the third floor had outside stairs, very, very, very steep stairs. So immediately when I heard her let out this scream and heard her dog barking, I thought, okay, she had gotten home, she grabbed the leash, was gonna take the dog out for a walk and fell down the stairs. That's what I thought and I thought she hurt herself. And so I'm waiting on the phone and I keep saying go ahead and pick up, go and pick up and nothing. I didn't hear the dog barking anymore, I didn't hear her making any noises. I heard nothing. But I knew the phone was still connected. I got on my cell phone and called her home phone. So now I had all our lines linked up and her old style answering machine picked up and I could hear myself through the phone talking and leaving the message. And I was saying Gwen, pick up the phone now. You're scaring. I'm super worried. Pick up the phone. If you don't pick up the phone, I'm going to call the police. Pick up the phone now. And nothing.

[Ashley Flowers]

Christina wasn't making empty threats. Hearing nothing on the other end of the line, she immediately called 911 and gave them Gwen's address as she waited by the phone at home, some 30 to 40 minutes away for an update. But the waiting was torture. Knowing first responders were on their way, Christina called their other friend Sarah, who lived even closer, and asked her to go to Gwen's and find out what was going on. Here's Sarah.

[Sarah]

I just was closing up my house, and I threw the kids in the car and drove down there. And by the time I got there, the police, everybody was there. And they're like, you can't come in. It's the crime scene. I'm like, that's one of my best friends. So they're questioning me, and I think I must have said, what did he do to her? Or something like that. And they're like, who are you talking about?

[Ashley Flowers]

Who are you?

[Sarah]

I'm like, oh, my God, calm down. You know, I'm traumatized at this point already. And I said, her husband. And they all look at me. They're like, she's married. And I'm like, she's separated. And then I saw them bring her out, and they were still. They were working on her. And all I could see was the side of her head, like, almost gone. And so I'm like, cover her up. You know, they're trying to save her life. And I'm like, she was such a private person, very modest, you know. And here I'm thinking, oh, my God, we're going to laugh about this in a couple hours when you get back to your room at the hospital. Even after seeing her, you know, you still think now, I'll talk to you in a little. In a little while. And I said to the cop, tell her I'm here. Tell her I'm here. And the cop started to say to me, well, I don't think she's going to know.

[Ashley Flowers]

As you probably know, we wouldn't be here if Gwen had just suffered an accidental fall down her apartment building stairs. And that much was clear to the trained eyes of the West Palm beach police. As soon as they arrived and found Gwen, they knew that she had actually been shot. Here's the detective on the case today, Aaron Sam, describing how and where in the apartment they found Gwen once The.

[Aaron Sam]

Officers get there, they discover the door slightly ajar, and immediately see when you walk in, stuff on the floor. Sweater, a shoe, keys, and a cell phone. They call her name, they call out. They don't hear too much. They're walking around, and it's a very small apartment. And two officers eventually find her, hear her moaning in the closet. She's collapsed. But first, I guess she's sitting down in a laundry basket. She's got two gunshot wounds, shot in.

[William Frazier]

The face and shot through the top of her head. Assassinated.

[Ashley Flowers]

That was investigator William Frazier interjecting there. He's currently with the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office, but he used to work closely with Detective Sam on Gwen's case. There was no sign that Gwen had been sexually assaulted, and nothing appeared to have been taken from her apartment. So whoever had shot Gwen, it appeared their sole goal was to take her out. And by the looks of it, she was chased down and cornered at the back of her apartment with nowhere else to go.

[William Frazier]

When they did it, like Detective Sam stated, there was personal items belonging to her, the most significant being the sweater on the floor. Well, she ran out of her sweater because when the police recovered her sweater, it was turned inside out. So just picture yourself running, and I grab you by the back of the sweater and you run out of it, and the sleeves turn inside out. Thinking about the case thousands of times over and over. At the end of the day, she ran the wrong way because she ran into a dead end. I don't fault her for that, but it's a fact. If she had gone the other way outside the apartment, maybe we would never know her name.

[Ashley Flowers]

The shooting took place in the back closet where Gwen was found. She had dropped her cell phone right at the front door. And that might explain why Christina didn't hear anything else but the dog barking. That dog was Gwen's Jack Russell terrier, Shaquille, who police found unharmed wandering the apartment with his leash on. Detectives surmise that Gwen likely put his leash on right as she got home in the few moments she had before she was ambushed, which tells her friends something important. That dog was likely familiar with whoever had been laying in wait for Gwen.

[Christina]

It was not a friendly dog. So that was another thing that we always thought about is this dog was not like, let me just lick you and everything's going to be ok. Anytime I even would come over, the dog would bark. And honestly, I kept my hands up because I was afraid the dog was maybe going to snap at me. Very protective dog.

[Ashley Flowers]

The only thing in the way of evidence they found around Gwen in the closet were bullet casings from a.380. While the proverbial smoking gun itself wasn't left behind, there was another piece of evidence outside the apartment that was still letting off smoke. Literally.

[William Frazier]

The police officer said when they were bringing Gwen out on the gurney to take her to the hospital, he said, look, the killer left his cigarette butt on the thing. It's still burning. I mean, come on.

[Ashley Flowers]

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[Sarah]

We were on the phone, she was getting more upset and more upset and normally she could just handle her calm. And finally I could tell she was really upset and then she started crying. And I said, what happened? And she said, I just, I can't take it anymore. And she said, I just. I told him I was going to go to the attorney and I said, what did he say? And he said, I'll kill you if you do. And she was dead at 3:30 the next day.

[Ashley Flowers]

It's a bit unclear who ended up reaching Matt to notify him about the incident, but Gwen's friends estimate that sometime within about two hours or so of the shooting, Matt showed up at the hospital, seemingly oblivious as to what was going on. Investigators were already clued in on the couple's tumultuous relationship by that point, so they were curious to see how Matt would respond when they broke the news to him that Gwen had been murdered.

[William Frazier]

Matt never, ever, ever became emotional regarding the death of his wife. He accepted the fact that she'd been shot and killed. He initially cooperated with us 100% and the communications didn't begin to become acrimonious until he sat in this very room that we're sitting in right now. And Detective Dawn Eyman figured out quite rapidly that the several accounts that he gave regarding his whereabouts, first he was getting a pizza, then he was getting a haircut, then he was getting a video. We'll take your pick. We never were able to verify and vet his alibis. They just didn't work. But he never began sobbing or crying hysterically or anything else like that. He accepted the fact that she was dead. I believe he already knew she was dead.

[Ashley Flowers]

Detectives have Never been able to speak to anyone who could vouch for Matt's whereabouts during the time Gwen was killed. And at least some versions of his story were simply unverifiable. He told police he was getting a haircut, but when they checked the books at the place he mentioned, there was no record of him signing in. He also told police he went to hungry Howie's to pick up some food, but they couldn't verify that either.

[William Frazier]

This could only happen to Aaron and I. Hungry Howie's is a national restaurant chain. It's all over the place. The only place they don't keep records.

[Ashley Flowers]

Florida authorities were able to execute a search warrant at Matt's place within the first week, but nothing connecting him to the crime was discovered. But nothing not connecting him to the crime was either. Like his phone activity, for example. When investigators analyzed his phone and computer data, it revealed Matt was on them pretty consistently, except, interestingly, for a window right around the time of the homicide when there was a stark period of inactivity through his electronics. Detectives said that they discovered Matt was having multiple, multiple affairs with exotic dancers, Something he wasn't open about when they first asked him about the state of his marriage. And not all of these affairs were casual hookups, either. Matt seemed to be someone who was living completely separate lives, having ongoing relationships with at least four other women. Detectives had discussions with several of them, all of whom declared they had no idea that they'd been dating a married man. Married, but separated, but married nonetheless. And while they all painted a pretty bad picture of Matt, describing him as emotionally abusive, controlling, jealous, even keeping constant tabs on them, none of them claimed to have any insight into the murder of his wife. The more detectives learned about Matt and Gwen's relationship, the more suspicious they became. Gwen's younger brother, Chad, was aware of the troubles in his sister's marriage almost from the get go.

[Chad]

I remember very clearly, like, right after they got married, it wasn't too much longer that she had found out that Matt was cheating on her. And I remember she called my mom, like, frantic. And I remember all this. And my mom flew down to Florida and, you know, was there to console my sister. And from there, they pretty much split. Not permanently. They were living separately, but trying to work things out. And I had a lot of conversations with my sister. She would. I was like, hey, when are you going to give this up? Like, you know, isn't enough enough already? And, you know, I'm the little brother. Like, in hindsight's 20 20, you know, I. I wish I would have pushed harder for that, but I was a 23 year old kid.

[Ashley Flowers]

While her family heard about Gwen's difficulties with Matt over the phone and through sporadic visits, Gwen's Florida friends had a front row seat to the drama that ensued. Despite all the affairs, it seemed like Matt still wanted to keep Gwen on his roster. Now, she wasn't allowed to move on, but he had free rein to do whatever he wanted and his own key to get in and out of her apartment when he wanted.

[Sarah]

Yeah, he made his own key and he would sit there in the dark and wait for her to come home. She'd turn the lights on when he'd be sitting there.

[Christina]

Every time we were together, she's getting phone call after phone call. Like he would blow up her phone. Just call, call, call, call. Sometimes she's like, I'm not going to answer. And then sometimes she would answer and I would hear him yelling.

[Ashley Flowers]

Even though they were separated, investigators told us Gwen and Matt were still seeing each other. Sometimes Matt himself told them that they'd been intimate just a few days before the homicide. Though apparently that last part comes only from Matt. But as you heard Sarah say before, any ambivalence Gwen had been feeling about Matt and the marriage seemed to be over. Gwen was adamant with Sarah. No more back and forth with Matt. She wanted out, which feels like real motive. Even more so when investigators learned about the money side of things. You see, Matt and Gwen had a prenup in place. Detectives told us that Matt claimed the agreement was his family's idea. Apparently, they were pretty well off. But detectives said Matt also stood to lose in the event of a divorce. Gwen had brought in around 70 grand to the marriage. And so if she and Matt ever got divorced, she would get that 70 grand back. And that meant that Matt would have to pay up.

[William Frazier]

A very wise detective said to me, Billy, it's always three things. Sex, drugs, money. This murder here falls into that category. What's the answer out of the 3? Money. 70,000 reasons why Greenblatt was murdered. That's my belief. Matt didn't want to pay that $70,000.

[Ashley Flowers]

Now, with Gwen dead and still legally his wife, when she died, instead of losing money in a divorce, Matt actually stood to make money off her death.

[William Frazier]

And there was an insurance policy on Gwen. Not a lot. It wasn't a big one. When we found out there was an insurance policy, we got excited. But it was like $10,000, something like that. And he collected on that insurance policy.

[Ashley Flowers]

That wasn't the only money at stake, apparently. Detectives said There was also something with real estate. The house he and Gwen previously lived in together before they separated. Like, maybe he needed Gwen's signature to officially sell it. And perhaps he'd been frustrated that she'd been holding out. None of this was a good look for Matt, but none of it was enough to put a warrant out for his arrest either.

[William Frazier]

Everything that I've just told you is entirely supposition on my part. It's not evidence, it's theory. And theory in three bucks will get you a cup of coffee. You know, you gotta be able to prove what you say.

[Ashley Flowers]

So how could they prove it? Well, investigators had at least one idea. Hi, crime junkies. Are you looking for more ways to get your true crime fix? I have an option for you that will cost you nothing, but give you everything. You can watch all your favorite true crime shows for free on Pluto tv. Follow along as mysteries are unlocked and secrets are revealed on 48 hours, Dateline 24. 7 and forensic files. Still feel like there are things left unsolved? Check out their crime dramas like Tracker and csi. Pluto TV is available on all your favorite devices, so you can stay on top of every case from anywhere. Pluto TV Stream now pay never. While questioning Matt for a second time on February 7, detectives tested his hands for gunpowder residue, and the results came back positive. Matt didn't have a history of owning guns, and no one police spoke with had any knowledge of him using or trying to get access to a gun. Feels like a slam dunk, right? Wrong. To Investigator Fraser and Detective Sam, gunshot residue testing is considered unreliable, with experts claiming that there can be other factors at play that can cause inaccurate results. It's not the type of testing that holds up in court. But what does have a better chance of holding up in court? Good old DNA. Matt had consented to DNA swabs when he was first questioned, and detectives found that it matched DNA on the sweater. Investigators believed the attacker likely yanked off as Gwen was trying to get away. But knowing that Gwen and Matt had been together recently and that he had spent time at the apartment, the presence of his DNA ended up being a moot point. So investigators turned their sights to the cigarette butts found just outside Gwen's door. Matt's story was that he wasn't anywhere near Gwen's apartment when she was killed. If a still burning cigarette had his DNA on it, it would prove that he was lying and would put him at her apartment at the time she was killed. This seemed to be kind of their last hope in the way of physical evidence. But they were feeling good about it. I mean, even the brand Marlboro Menthol was the same type that Matt was known to smoke. Hopes had to have been soaring when they got the results back. The extinguished cigarette on the ground. Yep, that matched Matt's DNA. But here's your the higher you let your hopes go, the harder it hurts when they come crashing down. That other smoldering cigarette had a single source. DNA from an unknown male. Detectives didn't know what to think or what this might mean. Was it possible that Matt had an accomplice? Or could this have been a murder for hire? Matt didn't offer up any names of any people he thought might be responsible. And outside of Matt, Gwen's loved ones couldn't come up with anyone else who they thought would want to hurt her.

[Chad]

You know, she was just like a super cool person. Everybody loved her. You know, she was just nice to everybody. A kind soul, funny, charismatic.

[Christina]

She was an angel. She was not into anything. She didn't do drugs. She barely even would have a glass of wine. She didn't know any people like that. She was just working and taking care of herself and completely straight and narrow. And it's like, why would somebody want to do that to her? She lived so modestly because she was paying her own bills. This one little, tiny one bedroom apartment in West Palm Beach.

[William Frazier]

Gwen Greenblatt was an innocent victim. Totally innocent. Clean as the driven snow. She was. She was a lady that all she wanted was a husband who was good to her, faithful to her. She wanted to have children. She wanted a family. That's what she wanted. She's a good, good, good person. And that, for me, makes it a personal matter.

[Ashley Flowers]

Investigators confronted Matt with the fact that his DNA was found on Gwen's sweater and the one cigarette butt found on the ground outside. And even though it wasn't the thing that was going to do him in, surely at this point, it was enough to make him realize that he was police's prime suspect. Detectives said he denied it all and became agitated, ultimately leaving the West Palm beach police station never to return again.

[William Frazier]

Matt never once, ever. From the first week In February of 2003 to present day, he's never once contacted any police officer, particularly my colleague, Detective Sam, who's walked up on Mr. Greenblatt on more than one occasion and had conversations with him. But he never once inquired about what happened to Gwen, not once. Not against the law. But it tells you something about Mr. Greenblatt.

[Ashley Flowers]

Despite the circumstantial evidence, point pointing to Matt Detectives had hit a dead end. Throughout the following years, they continued to investigate Matt and his associates to see if they could find the person whose DNA was on that smoking cigarette butt. While it's clear police had Matt square in their sights, I don't want you to get the impression that they didn't run down other possibilities, too. I mean, they spoke with Gwen's co workers. They looked into the possibility of surveillance footage. They canvassed Gwen's apartment complex. One tip even took them all the way to Jamaica in pursuit of a teenager, this neighbor, who'd apparently moved abruptly after Gwen's murder. But Investigator Frazier told us that turned out to be nothing. Evidently, he'd come to the US to live with his brother and simply missed home and wanted to go back.

[William Frazier]

I feel that we as detectives had gone down every rabbit hole we could go down. And, you know, I made the comment on many occasions when Gwen's death would come up. I says, real simple. Tell me who owns the cigarette butt on the pull box, and we'll solve the case. Just give me a name. And then one day, someone comes in and says, I got a name.

[Ashley Flowers]

It was a name no one recognized. Richard Engel. His DNA was put into CODIS about a decade after Gwen's murder when he was arrested on federal fraud charges. But according to investigator Frazier, he did also have a violent history. Arrests from 2001, including for domestic battery and domestic aggravated assault with a firearm. Richard was serving his time in a South Carolina prison on those other federal fraud charges. So in 2013, Detective Sam and investigator Frazier traveled out of state to meet with him. At first, it sounds like he assumed the detectives were there for something related to the fraud stuff, but they cleared up their reason for being there pretty quickly.

[Aaron Sam]

It's a murder investigation. Oh.

[Ashley Flowers]

Our reporting team obtained audio from the detectives meeting with Richard that you'll hear throughout this section.

[Aaron Sam]

Your name has come up in a murder investigation. That's why the state is here. That's why we have fed help to help speak to us. And as he said, at any time, you're free to leave, but we would like to speak to you and answer our questions, if you don't mind.

[William Frazier]

Well, I mean, I would like to, because I have no idea. I mean, but I also know that I have to.

[Aaron Sam]

I've never been in a situation like this, and I have no idea who.

[William Frazier]

This is, how my name can come up in this.

[Ashley Flowers]

Detectives proceeded to show Richard pictures of Gwen's apartment. And while he claimed he didn't recall ever being there, there he did mention that he had lived close by and used to deliver pizzas in that area, but that all those apartment complexes looked the same to him. Richard also said that he wasn't a smoker back in 2003. Said he didn't pick up the habit until later. But even then, Investigator Frazier posed a hypothetical. Well, if you were going to smoke, what type would you go for?

[Aaron Sam]

What kind of cigarette would I be?

[William Frazier]

Yeah, Probably Marble Menthol light. Marlboro Menthol Light. Right.

[Ashley Flowers]

Next, they showed Richard a photo lineup of some men, including Matt, and asked him if he recognized any of them. Richard said no. He denied knowing Matt or Gwen when they showed him pictures. Said they didn't even look familiar. So they moved on to the most damning piece of evidence they had, the reason they were there in the first. First place.

[William Frazier]

I want to show you this right here. All right. That's a color photograph, right? What do you think that is? What's that look like?

[Aaron Sam]

Cigarette.

[William Frazier]

Yep. What kind is it? It looks like a marble cigarette on the outside. Guess whose DNA is on that cigarette. Yours. I wouldn't know how.

[Aaron Sam]

The only way I could think is that you've got to be wrong, because.

[William Frazier]

I was never in that area. Well. Or would do anything like that. It's never happened to me once in my life where a person have said, after being advised that scientists have identified you through DNA examination and investigation, that your DNA is present. I've never had anyone other than Richard Engel tell me I was wrong. That's the same. The question we always ask when we sit down with someone. Hey, tell me about your family. Got any brothers and sisters? Any twins? No. Okay, it's you.

[Ashley Flowers]

But back in the interrogation room in 2013, Richard wasn't giving in. He didn't even seem to try and come up with a reasonable explanation as to why his DNA would have been at the scene. He was more so denying the science, adamant he was never there.

[William Frazier]

So now, if you will play detective with me for a moment. You be the detective. You be the detective. Sit on my side of the table right now, and you tell me what the hell am I supposed to do with this right now? Because I'm telling you, sir, that's your DNA on that cigarette right now. I'm telling you that I know I didn't kill somebody. Okay? Could you possibly have gone with someone that killed somebody? Never.

[Ashley Flowers]

Now, detectives had a new theory that Matt Greenblatt and Richard Engel worked together, and they had a hunch as to how it may have played out.

[William Frazier]

Aaron and I have theorized that Mr. Greenblatt and possibly his accomplice waited on that third floor landing and were looking out into the parking lot waiting for Gwen. Matt Greenblatt definitively stated that Gwen would be home. You could set your watch by it. That Gwen would be pulling into the parking lot at a specific time because she had to get to the dock. So think about it. They have a key to the apartment. Mr. Engel is smoking a cigarette. Matt says, here comes Gwen Engel. Me being a prior smoker. One more hit subconsciously sets it on the fire. Pull box. They go in, the murder is committed. They leave. And he forgets the cigarette butt. And there's another cigarette butt on the ground. And Matt stated he never smoked cigarettes at the front of the apartment. He always smoked him in the back and flicked him off the railing into the yard. And guess what we found down there when we looked? All the Marlboro menthol cigarette butts that he had flipped off into the ground.

[Ashley Flowers]

They confronted Richard, but he continued to deny it all.

[Aaron Sam]

You don't believe me.

[William Frazier]

Absolutely not. You're lying like a. You're lying. You're lying.

[Ashley Flowers]

Not a murderer.

[William Frazier]

Dude, I don't know what to tell you. I gotta get help.

[Aaron Sam]

And not a murderer.

[William Frazier]

Okay, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, now what you've done now is now you have created a scenario. Now you've created the heart. And you know who I am. I'm the lion. And you know who you are? You're the bunny rabbit.

[Aaron Sam]

Welcome back to Listen to youo Heart.

[Ashley Flowers]

I'm Jerry and I'm Jerry's heart.

[Aaron Sam]

Today's topic, Repatha Evolokimab Heart. Why'd you pick this one?

[Ashley Flowers]

Well, Jerry, for people who have had a heart attack like us, diet and exercise might not be enough to lower the risk of another one.

[Aaron Sam]

Okay.

[Ashley Flowers]

To help know if we're at risk, we should be getting our LDL C, our bad cholesterol checked, and talking to our doctor.

[Aaron Sam]

I'm listening.

[Ashley Flowers]

And if it's still too high, Repatha can be added to a statin to lower our LDL C and our heart attack risk. Hmm.

[Aaron Sam]

Guess it's time to ask about Repatha.

[Ashley Flowers]

Do not take Repatha if you are allergic to it. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing or swallowing, swelling of the face, lips, tongue, throat or arms. Common side effects include runny nose, sore throat, common cold symptoms, flu or flu like symptoms, back pain, high blood sugar, and redness, pain, or bruising at the injection site.

[Aaron Sam]

Listen to your heart.

[Ashley Flowers]

Ask your doctor about repatha. Learn [e-mail] or call 1-844-repatha the investigators left Richard in prison that day, Convinced he wasn't telling them the truth. So then a new effort began trying to find a connection between Richard and Matt to bolster their theory that they were accomplices. But, spoiler alert, we're over a decade out now from that confrontation in that South Carolina prison, and that has proved to be difficult. No phone records revealed any communication between the two, and financial accounts disclosed no payments from Matt to Richard. Detectives couldn't find any witnesses who could say that the two had ever had any contact with each other either. It sounds like the prevailing assumption was that the two would have just been casual acquaintances, like maybe they'd met somehow, some somewhere, and then Matt hired Richard to help him commit the murder. Outside of the fact that richard lived nearby at the time, Investigators tried to pinpoint other commonalities between them, and they had some loose ideas as to where they could have crossed paths.

[William Frazier]

We know that Mr. Greenblatt is a strip club affectionato. He likes strip clubs. He did at the time. He patronized them. Did engel patronize strip clubs? I don't know. I don't know.

[Ashley Flowers]

They also looked into the idea that Richard really could have just been at the scene because he was delivering a pizza. Although at the end of the day, he'd still been steadfast that he'd never been to Gwen's apartment. But employment histories show that the last time he worked for a pizza place was fall of 2002, at least a couple of months before the murder. And if you can recall, Gwen's neighbors really hadn't been around at the time of the murder. I mean, no one investigators ever interviewed thought that they even ordered a pizza that day. So, so far, investigators haven't been able to find any evidence from inside Gwen's apartment that is also a match for Richard's DNA. Though as technology improves, they do plan to continue retesting items to see if anything new pops up. Investigators have also kept tabs on Matt. In 2015, Detective Sam traveled out west to take another crack at talking to him.

[Aaron Sam]

We had tracked Matt down, I mean, because he's a fisherman, and he was doing a tournament in Arizona. So loaded up, the plane, went out there, and we figured out where it was being held, and it was like a little hotel or something like that where they checked in. So basically, me and I Think it was another detective waited in the lobby, found out that he had come in, and then as he was walking back out is when I met him right there in the lobby. We go back to the car because that's where all our stuff is. He agreed to talk to us. Asked him to, as we're speaking, just tell the truth, nothing but the truth. We get into it, and he goes into. Their marriage was fine. They weren't going to get divorced. We were in love, that type of thing. We talked about the cheating, and that's when he basically said, yeah, I did. We talked about the real estate. He said that really wasn't a problem, which was kind of confusing because when you're getting conflicting statements from people, her friends were saying that it was a problem, you know, and then we got to the fact of. Towards the end, because he was getting a little antsy in regards to Richard Engel and do you know this person? Do you know that name? And he said, no. Showing her a picture. No, I don't know him at all.

[Ashley Flowers]

Towards the end of their conversation, Matt shut down and said if they had any more questions, they could talk to his lawyer. In Detective Sam's opinion, Matt came across as a liar because he was contradicting things he'd originally told investigators as well as things other reliable witnesses had told them. When asked about Engel, Detective Sam told us that Matt appeared unfazed, and that's where investigators need your help to step in. Is there anyone out there with information that can help detectives establish a connection between Matt Greenblatt and Richard Engel? Our reporter, Madison, tried reaching both of them, hoping to push them on this subject. But as of this recording, neither of them have gotten back to her. Gwen's brother Chad, thinks that Matt Hope holds the answers he's looking for.

[Chad]

What I would say to Matt is, you know, if you really didn't have anything to do with this, why don't you give us a call? You know, why don't you help us solve this? If it really wasn't you, maybe we can sit down and talk about it and put our heads together and come up with something maybe we haven't thought about before, you know, other than that, I don't have anything to say. I've often envisioned sitting in a courtroom watching a trial, and seeing somebody pay for what they did would be fair. But at the end of the day, I just want to know what happened. I just want to know. Not knowing is, you know, it's tough.

[Ashley Flowers]

Rather than imagining Gwen's fear during those final moments. Her loved ones like to remember her at her happiest. They picture the former dance instructor who had a passion for performing jazz, captivating a room, grinning from ear to earth, gliding gracefully across the floor. Investigator Frazier and Detective Sam want their suspects to envision something too. A time when it'll be their turn to encounter someone on the other side.

[William Frazier]

Of their front door, listen for the footsteps. And I'm not kidding, it's not going away.

[Aaron Sam]

As a detective for a victim who's no longer here, you actually become the speaker for them. You know, you gotta speak for them. So we continue to speak for them. Cause somebody has to bring somebody to justice.

[Ashley Flowers]

If you know anything about the murder of Gwendell Gwen Greenblatt in West Palm Beach, Florida at the Royal St. George Apartments on February 5, 2003, please come forward. You can remain anonymous by calling Crime Stoppers of Palm Beach county at 1-800-458-8477. We'll have all the ways that you can contact the West Palm beach police directly in the show notes and the blog post for this episode. The Deck is an audio Chuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about the Deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com so what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? Are you an oblivious person hogging the sidewalk like a large dying snail? Do people stuck behind you ask, how do you sleep at night? Then you should go to Mattress Firm. They have tons of quality beds at every price. So anyone, even people like you, can sleep. Get matched at Mattress Firm. Sleep at night. Restrictions apply. See store or website for details.

[William Frazier]

Here's what people are saying about our true crime podcast, Anatomy of Murder.

[Sarah]

Instead of just telling a story, they're actually helping someone else to live the story.

[Ashley Flowers]

Each week we dissect a homicide using our expertise as a New York City homicide prosecutor and a sheriff's deputy and journalist.

[William Frazier]

I want to thank you all for what you've done.

[Ashley Flowers]

And now Rolling Stone magazine has named Anatomy of Murder one of the top 25 true crime podcasts of all time.

[Sarah]

Anybody who listens is going to be hooked right away.