INTRODUCING... Chameleon: The Weekly

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Chameleon: The Weekly” - Raffaello Follieri (The Deck, audiochuck x Campside Media)

Episode Aired: November 13, 2025
Host: Josh Dean
Featuring: Christine Hani (now Christine Dare Bryan), Rebecca Pcori
Theme: The Rise, Fall, and Reinventions of Raffaello Follieri, Master Con Artist

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Overview

This episode introduces listeners to the new show, "Chameleon: The Weekly," hosted by journalist Josh Dean in partnership with Campside Media and audiochuck. The series delves into stories of imposters and con artists. In this inaugural episode, the spotlight is on Raffaello Follieri—a charming Italian who seduced Hollywood elite, fooled investors and politicians, and conned his way through the worlds of real estate, high society, and, most recently, rare earth mining.

The story unfolds through interviews, journalistic investigation, and first-hand accounts from those who crossed paths with Follieri, including Wall Street Journal reporter Christine Hani and Italian TV journalist Rebecca Pcori.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Follieri and Anne Hathaway: The Glamorous Beginning

• [03:50] The episode opens with the public breakup of movie star Anne Hathaway and her boyfriend, Follieri. Their high-profile romance drew tabloids and attention.
• Personal Fallout: Hathaway’s emotional responses—her handling of questions on Letterman, an SNL joke:
  • “I broke up with my Italian boyfriend and two weeks later he was sent to prison for fraud. I mean, we’ve all been there. Am I right, ladies?” — Anne Hathaway on SNL ([07:18])
• Public Arrest: Follieri was arrested in 2008 at his Trump Tower apartment.

2. How Did Follieri Pull It Off?

• [09:33-14:00] WSJ reporter Christine Hani recounts her early suspicions after being introduced to Follieri as a “hotshot” real estate developer.
  • Follieri claimed connections to the Vatican (Secretary of State Angelo Sodano's nephew as adviser).
  • He started the “Follieri Group” to buy US Catholic Church properties, exploiting the Church's need to liquidate assets after abuse scandals.
  • Attracted high-profile investors, particularly through connections with celebrities and politicians (Harvey Weinstein, Ron Burkle, Bill Clinton).
• Christine’s Gut Feeling:
  • “He presented himself very well... but there just felt something very off.” — Christine Hani ([11:39])
  • Follieri was evasive about specifics, giving basic answers to basic questions.

3. Red Flags & The Collapse

• [14:00-16:22] Examines Follieri’s Ponzi-like financial behavior:
  • Lavish Lifestyle: Loans intended for real estate transactions fueled apartments, jewelry, and “beautiful actresses.”
  • Legal Reckoning: In 2008, Follieri is arrested and quickly pleads guilty to 14 counts of wire fraud, money laundering, and conspiracy.
  • Media Reaction: Even after his downfall, some admirers (especially women) stood by him.
  • “He pleaded so quickly there was no trial... He was like, I did it, like it was a reporter’s dream.” — Christine Hani ([17:39])
• [18:08] Sentenced to prison, $1.4M fine, then deported back to Italy.

4. Follieri, the Chameleon: Reinventing Himself in Italy

• [20:07-23:44] Host Josh Dean explores Follieri's early ambitions in Italy:
  • Raised in Foggia—a small, Catholic, agricultural town. Early business ventures failed (Beauty Planet).
  • Follieri sold "himself"—charm, style, connections, sometimes more image than substance.
  • “He never drank alcohol, but always offered others the best champagnes and the best wines. He gave this kind of holy impression of a really well-mannered person.” — Rebecca Pcori ([22:53])
• Obsession with Social Status: Leveraged football (soccer) for networking with power brokers.

5. Post-Prison Schemes: Soccer and Rare Earths

• [24:20-27:04]
  • Tried (unsuccessfully) to buy major soccer clubs (Palermo, Foggia, AS Roma)—often making grandiose (and possibly fictitious) offers, falsely citing previous connections.
  • Skillful use of the media and image construction; rebuffed by former investor Ron Burkle (“Follieri is just making this stuff up.”).
• [27:55-29:34]
  • Now claims to control 8% of the world’s rare earth metals market—questionable, with much skepticism from Italian journalists. Social media awash in flashy posts, “PR puff pieces,” and boasts.

6. Why Does Follieri Keep Succeeding?

• [29:34-32:43]
  • Persistent reinvention, leveraging his image—never substance.
  • “I think it's part of creating this image of someone who can be the great manager that leads you to make a huge amount of money in an easy way... investing once in rare earth, once on oil, once on real estate. I think it's part of a strategy on pretending to be someone that I think he has never been.” — Rebecca Pcori ([29:34])
  • Christine Hani reflects on how the real estate industry (unlike Wall Street) is especially permissive and ripe for fraud:
    • “There’s no regulation...All you need is money. Capital is everything.” ([33:53-33:55])
    • “It is the greatest entry point for upward mobility in America. And it’s also a great entry point for criminals because it’s just perceived to be, like, easy money.” ([33:55])

7. Con Artists: American Archetype

• [31:41, 35:55]
  • Christine makes connections between con artists, rugged American mythos, and our fascination with reinvention.
  • “They keep, like, locusts, you know, scarlet fever. Nothing stops them. They're kind of like Raffaello Follieri. They just keep getting up and getting on that wagon and, like, driving further west.” — Christine Hani ([32:19])
  • “There was this interesting magical thinking and optimism that comes with these con artists that is kind of fascinating to watch...They don’t sit home and cry. They just, like, get up and put on another Brioni suit and think up another idea that might get them in a whole world of trouble.” ([35:55])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Public Humiliation & Humor:

  • [07:18] Anne Hathaway on SNL: “I broke up with my Italian boyfriend and two weeks later he was sent to prison for fraud. I mean, we've all been there. Am I right, ladies?”

• On Real Estate Scams:

  • [33:55] Christine Dare Bryan: “You show up with a bag full of cash and you win. It’s not based on, like, where you went to college...It is the greatest entry point for upward mobility in America. And it’s also a great entry point for criminals because it’s just perceived to be, like, easy money.”

• On Conman Resilience:

  • [31:41] Josh Dean: “The ability to change colors, to fall and rise. Isn't that the definition of a chameleon.”

• On Follieri's Persistence:

  • [29:34] Rebecca Pcori: “Given that, I don't think it will change. I hope so. I mean, as far as I know, he has always done the same thing, using different names and different places and different fields and different companies. But the aim is the same.”

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:50 — Anne Hathaway’s public breakup, Letterman and SNL commentary.
• 09:33-12:49 — Christine Hani recalls meeting Follieri and early suspicions.
• 14:00-16:22 — Follieri’s financial house of cards and collapse.
• 17:33-18:20 — Legal consequences: charges, plea, prison, deportation.
• 20:07-23:44 — Follieri’s early years in Italy and first reinventions.
• 24:20-27:47 — Soccer club schemes and media manipulation.
• 27:55-29:34 — Claims of global mining dominance, image management via social media.
• 29:34-32:43 — The psychology, methods, and American archetype of the con artist.
• 33:53-33:55 — Real estate as a fraudster’s playground.
• 35:55 — On the enduring “magical thinking” of people like Follieri.

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Tone & Style

The episode blends investigative journalism with a lively, conversational tone. Josh Dean’s narration is both skeptical and fascinated, probing not just the facts of Follieri’s schemes but the psychology of con artistry itself. Guests Christine Dare Bryan and Rebecca Pcori provide both hard-nosed skepticism and an amused, almost anthropological curiosity about why people like Follieri keep rising anew, no matter how many times they fall.

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Conclusion

This episode paints a vivid portrait of a serial deceiver—his tactics, his allure, and why our societies, from Wall Street to Hollywood to Rome, remain so vulnerable to the likes of Raffaello Follieri. Despite legal and personal ruin, Follieri continues reinventing, proving that for some, the game is never truly over—at least until the next con.

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For more episodes, find Chameleon: The Weekly where you get your podcasts.

Transcript

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[Ashley Flowers]

Hi everyone. Ashley here dropping in your feeds to tell you about the newest weekly show from Audio Chuck called Chameleon. In partnership with Campside Media, we're bringing you stories from a slightly different side of true crime. Stories about people who live by deception. Individuals who don't just tell lies, but become someone else entirely. They build new identities, they hide in plain sight, and they manipulate everyone around them, often for years before the truth finally comes to light. Each week, host and journalist Josh Dean unravels a new case that pushes the limits of human deception. Stories of imposters, shapeshifters, and master con artists who have turned illusion into a way of life. The first episode dives into the unbelievable story of Raffaello Follieri, the charming con artist who fooled Everyone from Hollywood to high society. He swept a famous actress off her feet, claimed ties to powerful politicians, and convinced investors that he was on a mission to save the Catholic Church's finances. But behind the designer suits and the Vatican connections was a master manipulator running a multimillion dollar scam. Chameleon unravels how Follieri built his illusion, who got caught in his web, and how it all came crashing down when the lies finally surfaced. This isn't just a true crime podcast. It's a psychological deep dive into the human capacity for deceit. And it will make you question how well we really know the people around us. I'm going to play the first episode of Chameleon for you right here. And when you're done, you can find episode two right away wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

Campsite media.

[Josh Dean]

Hello?

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[Josh Dean]

What do you want me to say?

[Rebecca Pcori]

Chameleon.

[Josh Dean]

Chameleon. Chameleon Weekly. Back in the fall of 2008, Anne Hathaway was a guest on Late Night with David Letterman, talking about her latest movie, Rachel getting married. It's a thing stars have to do as part of their contracts with studios. But the timing of this one for Hathaway was unfortunate because she was in the middle of a devastating breakup.

[Interviewee / Commentator]

You would think that maybe this happens more to people. You meet somebody, you fall in love, and then it turns out maybe that person wasn't all that great.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

Maybe.

[Interviewee / Commentator]

Yeah.

[Ashley Flowers]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Promotional appearances don't typically get this personal, but this breakup had unfortunately happened in full public view. And, well, as Hathaway said herself to Dave, it's quote, what everyone is thinking about.

[Interviewee / Commentator]

Did you have any hints that there was a problem?

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

You know what? I don't want to go into the specifics, but I will say that you do have to give me credit because as far as relationships crashing and burning goes, come on. I did pretty great. It was actually.

[Interviewee / Commentator]

Yeah, it was.

[Josh Dean]

You know, that's right, Dave. Never afraid of pushing an envelope, pressed on.

[Interviewee / Commentator]

And it was different from what we're accustomed to hearing. You know, it's. This was pretty unusual.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

That's definitely one of the words that.

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That.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

Yeah.

[Interviewee / Commentator]

And. And is this a person? Is he in jail now?

[Josh Dean]

Not a question you typically hear a huge Hollywood star asked after a breakup, but a relevant one in this case, because the answer was yes. Anne Hathaway's ex, the man she nearly married after a whirlwind romance, was in jail. His name was Raffaello Folieri, a swashbuckling Italian with a deep tan, floppy hair and apparently close ties to the Vatican, who'd arrived in New York in 2003, ready to make his fortune and meet some ladies. The two fell in love, and Ann practically screamed from the rooftops, or at least in interviews like the one she gave Newsweek, in which she said the two worshiped each other, or Vanity Fair. It was totally love at first sight, she said. He is so good looking, he looks like a God. It was a real life fairy tale for an actress who was famous in part for playing a princess. Until it wasn't. Because on June 24, 2008, federal agents descended upon the Trump Tower apartment where Folieri was staying and arrested him.

[Interviewee / Commentator]

How long did you know the guy?

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

How long? We dated for four years.

[Josh Dean]

Four years and.

[Interviewee / Commentator]

And was there ever, like, you know, stuff missing out of your purse?

[Josh Dean]

This uncomfortable turn on Letterman came four months after their breakup. Follieri would later say that the last time they spoke, Annie, as he called her, phoned him from LA during a press tour and seemed tense. We were on the phone for 10 minutes talking about when she might come home, he explained to a reporter from the Daily Mail. If I remember, Annie's last words were, I love you forever. And we ended the call. I never spoke to Annie again. Follieri didn't begrudge his ex, at least not publicly. She'd made what he called a business decision, and he understood. I don't think I'm spoiling anything by telling you that Anne Hathaway got over it. She did fall in love again, got married, had kids. She even managed to turn the punchline around and wield it herself during the monologue when she hosted Saturday Night Live that fall.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

I broke up with my Italian boyfriend and two weeks later he was sent to prison for fraud. I mean, we've all been there. Am I right, ladies?

[Josh Dean]

This is Chameleon, the weekly show about people who pretend to be something they aren't. And I'm Josh Dean. This week, Raffaello Foglieri, the charming Italian playboy who fooled an A list movie star star, one of Bill Clinton's closest friends, and a long, long list of investors. That's after the break.

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[Josh Dean]

Chameleon Chameleon Chameleon. This is Chameleon Weekly. Back in January 2006, a Wall Street Journal reporter named Christine Hahni was invited to lunch by a publicist to meet one of their new and flashiest clients. Christine had been hearing about this dynamic young real estate developer for some time and was curious to speak with him.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

He was known as the Italian boyfriend of the movie star Anne Hathaway. And this is, you know, the Devil wears Prada time. We're talking mid 2000s in New York.

[Josh Dean]

Hathaway was a superstar in a time of spectacular wealth and excess, and this was indeed boom time in the lead up to the 2008 global financial collapse. And so, by association with his movie star girlfriend, Raffaello Foglieri was already a fixture of the gossip rags.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

He was portraying himself as a real estate developer with ties to the Catholic Church, and I met him because my beat was real estate finance.

[Josh Dean]

Christine's editor asked her to take a closer look into this buzzy emigre's business dealings.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

This guy is claiming to have ties to the Vatican that is opening doors for him to buy up all of the real estate owned by the Catholic Church.

[Josh Dean]

FOLLIERI had started a company in his name, the Follieri Group, apparently to help the Church unload many of its valuable U.S. real estate holdings. This was of course, a time in which the Catholic Church was still reeling from a series of exposes revealing the COVID up of child sex abuse by priests.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

It needed money, so they were struggling for money. They were selling properties. So in that world it didn't sound that far fetched.

[Josh Dean]

Follieri claimed that he was tight with the longtime number two official at the Vatican, the former Secretary of State Angelo Sedano, whose nephew was a senior advisor to the Follieri Group.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

That was his calling card and he could come in and he could buy this real estate and turn it around for a profit.

[Josh Dean]

Follieri attracted tens of millions in investment from some huge names. This flamboyant Italian seemed to come basically out of nowhere. That was what Christine's editors wanted her to probe. They met at a posh restaurant in.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

Manhattan, presented himself very well there just felt something very off. To me it was a good conversation, but my questions were really about like, what are your transactions? What are you doing? How do you plan to do this? Like, how are you going to make money? Where are you buying these properties? What have you bought so far?

[Josh Dean]

Really just basic journalism 101. Not exactly gotcha questions, but Follieri bobbed.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

And weaved and I just left the whole meeting kind of unsettled.

[Josh Dean]

Christine had been in the game long enough to know when something wasn't right. And in this case, something definitely wasn't right.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

I worked on that story for nearly eight months trying to piece it together. There was plenty to keep me busy besides Raffaello Folleri. But he was always in the back of my head. And then he's popping up like, oh, I'm in the Dominican Republic. Oh, I'm doing stuff with the Clinton Global Initiative. Harvey Weinstein knew him. The Duchess of York was there. Like he was at the heart of this frothy pre crash scene. And he just kept cropping up like the world is just sparkling in this pre crash moment. And he was part of that and he just blended in beautifully. It's right out of like an Edith Wharton novel.

[Josh Dean]

Edith Wharton, the first woman to win the Pulitzer Prize, by the way, in 1921, she documented the lives of the rich and famous throughout the Gilded Age.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

And this is someone who was new to the country, who didn't have all that many family connections. Just showing up and coming from like a poorer part of Italy. People were questioning his education, you know, background like, where was the creation of his wealth? Where did this come from?

[Josh Dean]

But Christine kind of got it. She could see how people were drawn in.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

It was charm, it was looks, it was nice suits, it was a beautiful girlfriend. It was a determination. I remember one of his close friends from the center of circle saying he just would like call and nudge and nudge and nudge, like, get coffee with me, hang out with me. He was always kind of a sponge in a way to this network of, like, in the know, New Yorkers.

[Josh Dean]

But she continued to probe.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

What I found in the reporting is that he, through that time was definitely trying to make a lot of gestures in the United States. I think he sent gift baskets to all these Catholic officials at a major conference. He was trying to make purchases. But my headline was Vatican Ties Just go so far. You know, no matter how many ties and connections you have to the Vatican, it can only get you so far. If you're trying to buy and redevelop a kind of dilapidated and abandoned property in the heart of Philadelphia and trying to do this all over the country is difficult. There's that pyramid scheme that often happens with real estate, especially during booms that you see. You go from, you know, you get a little money, you put it into a property, then you spend it, get another property. So you could see what he was thinking in terms of that pyramid scheme. But he had no experience in these markets. And the contacts with the Vatican don't really help you when you have to deal with remediating a property that needs to be transformed and turned into something profitable. There also just seemed like a lot of leveraging. And as we see in his story, there's a lot of watches, jewelry, red carpets. We know that he had a relationship with Ron Burkle's Yucaipa companies.

[Josh Dean]

Ron Burkle, a very wealthy and successful investor who's probably most famous or infamous for his friends like former President Bill Clinton, who he'd famously flown around in his jet, which former aides reportedly nicknamed Air Fuck One. Burkle was also friends with Jeffrey Epstein, but was never named in any criminal complaints. He purchased Michael Jackson's sprawling Neverland Ranch and most recently found himself closely associated with disgraced rapper Sean Diddy Combs. He's said to have invested $100 million in Combs Sean John clothing label and is reportedly even the godfather of Diddy's Kids. Burkle had been persuaded by Follieri to invest in his business, but he quickly realized that Follieri couldn't deliver on his promises. And in 2007, Burkle took Follieri to court the over 100 million he had invested in the business. Turns out Follieri had apparently been using it to fund his lavish lifestyle. To put it simply, he was in.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

The know enough to get these very significant meetings. He is leveraging loans to have this fabulous apartment and to get this girlfriend.

[Josh Dean]

And as you already know, that girlfriend Anne Hathaway didn't stick around. This is the point at which things really start to fall apart for Raffaello Follieri. And then he was arrested.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

The case went pretty quickly. He was arrested in June of 2008 and he pleaded guilty by September of 2008 and that was 14 counts of wire fraud, money laundering and conspiracy.

[Josh Dean]

Folieri was just 30 years old.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

He was basically using the money that he was getting and loans for his real estate transactions to finance the luxurious lifestyle he had. There's this list of jewelry, like a gold colored ring with light blue green stone, silver earrings with silver clasps and blue and clear stones. A 16 inch 5 strand necklace with pearl bands and a 32 inch gold colored chain with red brownstone. So he liked his jewelry, he liked his beautiful actresses. And all this money that was meant for Catholic church properties was essentially going to that to be fair, there were a lot of people he charmed and swindled from all sectors of society. Whether it was business or religion, whether it real estate, you know, in the world of like the Clinton Global Initiative. Like I just saw it across the board. It wasn't just like in one industry where people were raising concerns or were charmed by him or taken advantage by him. And even you saw that in the end when he was like pleading guilty. I think he had friends, they're typically female, who just were charmed and persuaded by him and stood by him, which was fascinating to watch.

[Josh Dean]

Like at the courthouse, Follieri came quietly. He didn't fight. He accepted the charges.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

He pleaded so quickly there was no trial. He was like, I did it like it was a reporter's dream. It was just like the fastest thing ever. I saw him in court that day and it's so funny. I remember this because his guilty plea was in September. He had actually asked to move up his case because he was having such a difficult time at the Metropolitan Detention Center. So he's like, just get me out of here, I'll plead guilty faster. It's extraordinary how quickly it fell. But it didn't feel like it was.

[Josh Dean]

Going to topple until it's Raffaello Follieri was ordered to pay a fine of $1.4 million.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

Plus, yeah, he goes to federal prison.

[Josh Dean]

And then he's deported back to Italy, to the homeland. And that, you might think, would be the end of our story. You might think Follieri would disappear, maybe go back to his family home, never to be seen in the business world again. But as I've learned while making this show, a Chameleon rarely changes his sp.

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[Josh Dean]

This is Chameleon, the weekly Raffaello Follieri. The more I read, the more I was fascinated and wanted to know who was this guy who had shown up in New York and charmed the pants off some of our most prominent citizens? How does one just become a bon vivant who opens the wallets of very wealthy men?

[Rebecca Pcori]

Okay, I hear you, but your music is better.

[Josh Dean]

So I called Rebecca Pcori. She's a reporter for one of Italy's largest TV broadcasters.

[Rebecca Pcori]

Okay, perfect.

[Josh Dean]

She worked on a special about Follieri which came out last year and she had a lot to say.

[Rebecca Pcori]

He has been able to reinvent himself many times and pretending it's time to be a businessman, but within different fields. I mean at first in Italy, Started in his hometown, which is Sanzua.

[Josh Dean]

Polieri is from Foggia, a small town in the deep south known as the granary of Italy. Primarily agricultural, quiet, conservative, deeply Catholic. The kind of place where if you make a name for yourself, you are not forgotten.

[Rebecca Pcori]

He has always said that it was linked with this little town because it's also the town of Padre Pio. I don't know if you've ever heard about him. It's like a religious Padre Pio.

[Josh Dean]

Actually Saint Pio, since 2002, was a friar who had become a kind of folk hero in Italy in the early 20th century. Stigmata, visions, healing, miracles, the whole package. And you see his image everywhere in Foggia, in homes, shops and on car dashboards. Rebecca told me that Follieri saw Padre Pio as almost a blueprint for fame, a notoriety to aim for.

[Rebecca Pcori]

And I've talked to many sources from also the neighborhood where they have this big house. And they had told me that foyer, when he was really Young, like at 18 years old, he had a big little car, very flashy car.

[Josh Dean]

Even as a teenager, Raffaello wanted to be noticed. He came from money, nothing like the wealth he would later project, but enough to make a splash in a small place like Foggia, and certainly enough to get a leg up when he decided to go into business.

[Rebecca Pcori]

He started his career, let's say, in 1999, with a brand that was called Beauty Planet. And he started producing, like shampoo and conditioners and things like that. So far away from what we have.

[Josh Dean]

Read about him, it didn't go well.

[Rebecca Pcori]

But the venture was disastrous financially and also in terms of public inmates, because in 2001 the company suffered a loss of nearly €32,000.

[Josh Dean]

Still, that didn't stop him. He launched a private finance firm backed with money from his dad. And the key to this business wasn't in selling a product, it was in selling himself. Selling a dream to make people trust him with their money.

[Rebecca Pcori]

The strategy has always been the one of standing out with his parents, with his flattering manners. And there is another attitude, which is weird, is that he never drank alcohol, but he always offered others the best champagnes and the best wines. He gave this kind of holy impression of a really well mannered person, someone.

[Josh Dean]

Important, someone connected, someone who belonged in whatever room he happened to be in.

[Rebecca Pcori]

So it's strange because, you know, this thing that comes again because I think he has always been fascinated by the imaging that he could get to people. So movie stars and cinema, I don't know more the image than the substance of what he was doing as I.

[Josh Dean]

And nowhere is this clearer than Raffaello Fogliare's obsession with soccer.

[Rebecca Pcori]

Because in Italy, football is really crucial aspect of social life. And I mean, for instance, being in the VIP tribune of big stadium, it means to get to know, like, politicians, member of the police, but also managers of big industries or people from the church or from, you know, so that gives you links that are really useful.

[Josh Dean]

A few years after returning to Italy following his adventures in the U.S. folieri made bids for several major Italian clubs, including Palermo and what would be the local club from his childhood home, Foggia Calcio, which He claimed in 2018 to be buying a 50% stake in, with backing in part from a familiar name, Ron Burkle. But here's what one of Burkle's attorneys told the New York Post when they called for comment. Follieri is just making this stuff up. There's absolutely zero chance that Ron would invest with Follieri directly or indirectly. To which Follieri replied also to the Post. My interviews in the Italian press were accurate and precise. It is a shame that after I paid my debt to society, some people still have the need to put me down and don't give a person a second chance. Follieri did not acquire a stake in Palermo or Foggia, but he wasn't done yet. In 2023, he made Italian headlines again by showing interest in a club you might have heard of, even if you don't follow European soccer, the vaunted AS Roma.

[Rebecca Pcori]

F. Roma is the main football club of the capital of Italy and it's a really big football team and it moves a huge amount of money.

[Josh Dean]

Follieri announced that he was submitting a bid of 850 million euros for the club to buy it from its American owners. AS Roma then denied that such an offer was ever made. And Follieri fired back via a statement on his Instagram, which refuted Roma's denial, reasserted his offer, provided the email address where he sent that offer, and called the club's denial quote completely inexplicable and untruthful. It went on, Raffaello Follieri reconfirms his intention to acquire all the shares of AS Roma to relaunch the team on an international level. My lawyers will protect my image and reputation in every competent office. Whether or not these offers were ever real, Follieri surrounded himself with the appearance of power, including a mysterious Arab who had followed him around and was allegedly linked to the Saudi royal family. It reminds me of a story from earlier in his life where Follieri allegedly had someone dressed as a nun following him around to strengthen his perceived ties to the church. Rebecca tells me that buying a soccer team, a storied club, is just about the best thing you can do to plant a flag in the Italian business world. So Foliari was taking the biggest of swings. But the money, it never showed up.

[Rebecca Pcori]

At first they offer like 830 million and the Friedman family said they've never received this offer. This strategy was the same when in the United States money are coming, yes, they're coming, yes, they're coming. And then never.

[Josh Dean]

In Italy he was known, if not exactly famous, as a kind of local celebrity, the stylish young man from Foggia who somehow ended up dating Anne Hathaway.

[Rebecca Pcori]

There was a lot of chit chatting about it. It was like the beautiful Italian type boy who was able to, you know, make Anne Hadaway fall in love with them.

[Josh Dean]

Everything else though, the US scandal, the exaggerated links to the Vatican in Italy, it seemed to just pass people by.

[Rebecca Pcori]

Because it's not such well known story in Italy. The legal issues in the United States, people almost know only about an halfway.

[Josh Dean]

And this which made Follieri's home country the perfect environment for a chameleon to rebuild his empire after he was deported.

[Rebecca Pcori]

Right now he's trying to create a new image, hoping that people don't know about his past.

[Josh Dean]

These days, Raffaello Folieri's interest in controlling a football club seems to have cooled. The game he's interested in now is much bigger. He's been investing in clean energy, shipping, and now his main thing seems to be mining, specifically rare earth metals, the elements essential for batteries in electric cars and smartphones. This is big business, the kind of industry that's usually dominated by entire nations. So I was shocked to see that Foliary claims to control 8% of the world's rare earth market. To put that in perspective, if true, this would put this slippery Italian man somewhere between the whole of the US and a medium sized mining country like Australia or Canada. And he's certainly not shy about it. On his Instagram, the Foliary of today shares a strange mix of images to his 1.9 million followers. The lavish lifestyle of an international jetsetter, Fancy suits, rich looking pals with screenshots of business media profiles touting massive deals with headlines like Raffaello King of Rare Earths or Raffaello Follieri powering the future through rare metals and clean energy. They come from publications like American Daily Post, the American Reporter, and Vogue magazine, which are not publications I'm familiar with. They feel a lot like PR puff pieces placed in friendly outlets to help burnish his reputation, which honestly wouldn't be a bad strategy. Now, I'm no rare earth metals expert. Who am I to say whether his claims are legit? But Italian reporters are skeptical and something about this feels flimsy. Rebecca Pcori agrees. She sees Follieri as someone who just isn't going to change.

[Rebecca Pcori]

In high school, he was one of the most popular guy. He went out with his flashy guards and he was well known from a wealthy family. So this is the only thing that he has to offer. This image of power and of, I don't know, wealthy life. And so given that, I don't think it will change. I hope so. I mean, as far as I know, he has always done the same thing, using different names and different places and different fields and different companies. But the aim is the same. I think it's part of creating this image of someone who can be the great manager that leads you to make a huge amount of money in an easy way, investing once in rare herd, once on oil, once on real estate. I think it's part of a strategy on pretending to be someone that I think he has never been.

[Josh Dean]

Some people are just resilient. They get knocked down and stand right back up. Raffaello Follieri seems to be one of those guys. Christine Hani, the former Wall Street Journal reporter, is married now. She's Christine Dare Bryan. These days she's still a business reporter who loves a good investigation. And after covering Raffaello Follieri's fall from grace in New York way back in 2008, she's never been able to totally get this mysterious Italian man fully out of her head.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

There just seems to be similar patterns. There seems to be a lot of activity with him and buying football club. Having this career now in minerals and energy. I mean, I wouldn't speculate for the.

[Josh Dean]

Record, Christine herself is not back on the beat. She had no interest in reopening this particular file. She just wants to say to anyone who does have that interest, pay very close attention to what he may be claiming.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

I just know all businesses take a lot of work and a lot more work than you would think. So I would just look at those numbers. That's the art of being a con man and being so charming and to construct this world around you.

[Josh Dean]

The ability to change colors, to fall and rise. Isn't that the Definition of a chameleon.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

There's this kind of wave that these criminals ride where they just can kind of emerge and keep coming back and reinventing. And that's what we love also about American stories. We love that reinvention and narrative. We love that, you know, you look at, it's like, this is no Ms. Havisham. This is like, I'm gonna keep emerging and rising again and never give up. And we all kind of love those stories, even though we don't wanna have our money stolen from us. I see that a lot with, like, children's literature.

[Josh Dean]

Like Laura Ingalls, the author of Little House on the Prairie.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

They keep, like locusts, you know, scarlet fever. Nothing stops them. They're kind of like Raffaello Follieri. They just keep getting up and getting on that wagon and like, driving further west. And yeah, he's created this myth and was the boyfriend to the princess of Princess Diaries, who we all grew up with. And it's fascinating to watch.

[Josh Dean]

One of Christine's specialties back then was real estate, a business niche that is actually quite kind to charlatans. Throw a rock at a developer's conference and you'll probably hit a fraud. So it makes sense to Christine why Raffaello Foglieri gravitated toward it.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

There's no regulation. Like, if you want to work on Wall street, you have to take your X and Y exams. There are no certifications like that. I mean, you have to get a broker's license if you want to sell co ops on the Upper east side. But other than that, there is no regulation like there is in Wall Street. So a lot of people who have gotten in trouble on Wall street than can just like, migrate to real estate and be totally fine. Also, you have a lot of generational wealth, so you have people who aren't trained. They've come into it because they inherited 300 apartment buildings from their dad or their grandpa. You have a lot of immigrant wealth and can get into real estate because you buy it and then you have the separate mobility. And as one of my real estate sources said to me, real estate moguls thirst for money like water in the desert. And nothing is going to get in their way for them to. To get that because they're so thirsty. So you have to factor that primal feeling in when you're reporting on them that what their motivation is, really all.

[Josh Dean]

You need is money. Capital is everything.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

You show up with a bag full of cash and you win. It's not based on, like, where you went to College. And not based on the fact that you passed your Series 7. It's not based on the fact that you went to Wharton. You have the most money, so you win. And so it is the greatest entry point for upward mobility in America. And it's also a great entry point for criminals because it's just perceived to be, like, easy money. I had this one source once say to me, who was a victim of Madoff. He said, like, how? Almost like, how dare you to be a journalist? Because your purpose in life is to make as much money as possible so you can give it to your family and for future generations. He thought I was very honestly, like, I was doing a disservice to my family legacy by not devoting my life completely to just amassing millions and billions of dollars like a. You were not a good family member if you were not doing that. There is no chit chat. There is no, like, fake, let's talk about how your garden's going. It's all like, I have a deal. I want press, I gotta make more money. And there's something refreshing about that. And that is hilarious to me, but also, like, I admire it. There's no wasting time.

[Josh Dean]

Looking back on this man decades later, from across an ocean, Christine is skeptical, but really more bemused than anything.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

It's illuminating how he's reinvented himself. And they're asking a lot of the questions that I was asking in the mid 2000s now in Italy, where did the money come from? How do you buy a team? Wow, that's kind of interesting. Yeah, that came up on another show I was reporting recently. It's like, they don't learn. I'd love it if they learned, but they usually don't learn.

[Josh Dean]

Follieri did speak at least once about the idea of a comeback. This was to ABC's Lama Hassan shortly after his release from a federal prison in Pennsylvania back in 2012. You have two choice. One choice is to give up and, you know, be broken psychologically forever, or stay stronger and overcome it. And I choose the second one.

[Christine Hani / Christine Dare Bryan]

There's this interesting magical thinking and optimism that comes with these con artists that is kind of fascinating to watch. In the case of Foliari, there was also that arrogance of, like, I'm part of this world and you gotta love it. They don't sit home and cry. They just, like, get up and put on another Brioni suit and think up another idea that might get them in a whole world of trouble. And women just follow their feet, feet. And they keep going.

[Josh Dean]

Chameleon is a production of Campside Media and Audio Chuck. It's written and hosted by me, Josh Dean. This episode was written by me and Joe Barrett. It was produced by Joe Barrett. Our Associate producer is Emma Siminoff. Sound design and mix by Tiffany Dimac. Theme music by Ewin lytramuin and Mark McAdam. Our production manager is Ashley Warren. Campside's executive producers are Vanessa Gregoriadis, Matt Sher and me, Josh Dean. And finally, if I can ask a few favors before sending you on your way today, please rate, follow and review Chameleon on your favorite podcast platforms to help spread the word. I know everyone says this, but it's true. Ratings and reviews really do help and if you have any feedback, tips or story ideas, you can email [e-mail] or leave us a message at a special number We've set up, 201-743-8368. Dial plus one from outside North America. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.

[Ashley Flowers]

I think Chuck would approve.

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