Ashley Flowers (3:41)

According to John, the last time he saw his fiance was pretty early in the morning on Monday, March 29, as he was leaving for work. John didn't have a typical 9 to 5. He did different types of handyman or construction jobs, from what we've been able to tell. So he was back home at noon that day. But he says that by then, Lindsay was just gone. And based on what his mother, Donna, told police Back in 1999, Lindsay was gone even earlier than that.

Detective Chris Lamb (4:08)

John and Lindsey would usually hold their home cordless phone in their room. They would keep it in their room, and so she went that morning to retrieve it, to put it back on the charger. It was a usual thing that she would do. So at about 7:45, she went up to the room, retrieved the cordless phone. Lindsay was still in the room sleeping, and then she returned back home. I believe it was shortly after 11 that morning. And at that point, Lindsey had gone. So this was kind of narrowing the time period a little bit from the 7:45 to about 11:00 clock, I believe.

Ashley Flowers (4:42)

It doesn't seem like John or Donna was overly concerned that first afternoon, because Lindsay's wallet and keys to the house were also gone, Though they noted that her ID was left behind along with her engagement ring. But John speculated that she took it off because of her swollen fingers. Though Donna and John said nothing else was out of place, Detective Parks went by their house to see for himself.

Detective Chris Lamb (5:05)

I think he was looking for anything that would suggest that this was anything more than a missing person. So I think that was an important step, is to go to the house where she was last seen and to see if there was anything there that kind of would raise suspicion that this was something apart from a missing person's case.

Ashley Flowers (5:24)

That could be physical signs, furniture move damage, blood, or signs of a cleanup. When police do this, they're paying attention to other things, too.

Detective Chris Lamb (5:35)

When you're able to search a residence and they're compliant, that's kind of a way to judge, to see if there's anything not just physically out of place, but also emotionally with family members, to see how cooperative they are with the investigation itself.

Ashley Flowers (5:50)

Detective Parks didn't make note of any odd behavior, and there definitely wasn't anything amiss from physically in the house. But as Detective Parks asked around, he did learn about a fight between John and Lindsay days before she went missing.

Detective Chris Lamb (6:06)

Some of the concerns there were John was working too much, and Lindsey was very pregnant, and so she kind of felt neglected. By that Sunday, the next day, Donna had said that everything seemed to be back to normal.

Ashley Flowers (6:19)

This argument Donna tells police about appeared to be minor, but it's also worth noting that it wasn't an isolated incident. One of Lindsay's close friends, Melanie Flowers. No relation to me, in case you were wondering, was in touch with detectives, too. And she did an interview on the Dead Life podcast with Alison dubois back in 2025. She said she remembered that there was friction between Lindsay and John's mom, Donna. Apparently, the two would fight, and then that would make John and Lindsay fight. It doesn't seem like Detective park spent much time on John. His notes indicate that he was cooperative. He was, after all, the one who reported Lindsay missing, and he had his mom to back him up. What's unclear to me, and even to Detective Lamb, is why John wasn't more concerned sooner about his pregnant fiance's absence, because Melanie sure was. She was actually the one who was supposed to pick Lindsay up for her doctor's appointment on the 30th. That day, Melanie called Lindsay over and over, first on her cell, then on the home phone, but no one picked up. So finally, she just drove over. When Melanie pulled up, she saw a bunch of concrete and plaster equipment in the front yard, stuff that John used for work. And she noticed that the door to the garage, which was used as kind of this makeshift den, was partially opened. She could tell that John was inside. So she went to peek down and ask him where Lindsay was.

Melanie Flowers (7:44)

And he was sitting on a couch where the couch is in the garage. And then there's a pool table, and there was two legs dangling, and I kind of bent down underneath, and I said, hey, where's Lindsay? And he, like, freaked out. He had this weird look on his face.

Ashley Flowers (7:58)

And he goes, she's not here.

Melanie Flowers (7:59)

He's all, get out of here. And I kind of just was like, oh, okay. And I left because. Scared me sometimes. But the interesting thing to me was there was a rug underneath the pool table. The rug was missing. When I started really thinking about things,

Ashley Flowers (8:19)

it's hard to know what exactly Melanie is saying here to Allison Dubois when she was interviewed. She doesn't go into more detail. Our team reached out to her, but she told us she didn't want to do another interview. She expressed how hard that first one with Alison had been for her and that she didn't want to rehash an emotional subject. Which is all to say, it's not totally clear if she was trying to say that she thought the legs she saw were Lindsay's or if she could even tell, since she'd got such a brief glimpse. She did say that after that, she went back to her own house, and she didn't stop trying to get in touch with Lindsay. She never heard anything back except for one text message that she says came to her cell phone from Lindsay's number about a week after she'd been missing.

Melanie Flowers (9:05)

And it said, number four. No lettuce, cherry coke. And that's what we would. She would always order from Del Taco, her chicken soft tacos. She couldn't get lettuce because of her braces, which gave me hope because I believed, oh, my gosh, she's okay. But they never looked into it. They never got back to me. Nothing.

Ashley Flowers (9:24)

None of this is in the reports Detective Lam has, but Melanie's seems to indicate that she told police about this at the time. So it's not clear if those records were lost or if they were never complete to begin with. And if Lindsay had a cell phone, that's not even part of the record anymore. So I doubt that they pulled records and tried to triangulate who sent that text and from where. According to police records, we do know that Lindsay had a personal voicemail that was part of a phone number she maintained at her grandpa's house. The report says there were numerous messages there, but none that were pertinent to the case. So who called who the messages were from, or if they were relevant. In hindsight, we've lost that opportunity to know. It's hard not to look at what was done or really what wasn't done and not walk away with the opinion that Police back in 99 seemed to write Lindsay off. We heard that Lindsay had a history with drugs, but stopped using when she got pregnant again. A friend told us that her pregnancy represented something different. A new chapter, a chance to get it right. But Melanie thinks that Lindsay's past may have shaped how police approached this case. Maybe that they were more inclined to believe that she had left on her own for some reason related to drugs. And maybe that was also the reason they were so quick to take John and his mom at their word. And while John was never a suspect and has never been charged with anything related to Lindsay's disappearance, some of those around Lindsay seemed to cast suspicion on him. According to police reports. In Lindsay's case file, people raised their concerns about John. Some days he came off as nonchalant after Lindsay disappeared, buying a new motorcycle and later getting together with a new woman. And while we would love to get John's take on this, as of this recording, he hasn't responded to our interview requests. Beyond that cursory look at the house Lindsay shared with John and Donna, it doesn't appear any formal searches were ever done. It's possible that they didn't have a warrant to look at the house, but it also seems like they never even asked because Melanie says the one thing that was supposed to go to Lindsay's mom, also named Donna, never made it to her.

Melanie Flowers (11:40)

And I always told them that there was a. It was kind of like one of those pirate chests from the pirate ship back in the day. But it was at the foot of their bed and it had a lot of her personal belongings and some new baby things that we had just gotten for the baby. And she. I remember her telling me probably about two months before all this happened, if I ever go missing, make sure this gets to my mom. And I remember asking Donna, have you gotten any of Lindsay's thing? And she had a diary that she would write in about John.

David Sheehan (12:13)

Mm.

Melanie Flowers (12:14)

Never got anything. Nothing.

Ashley Flowers (12:17)

This idea that Lindsay just walked away may have been bolstered by a couple of tips that came in early on, including one that came directly to police from Assimi Valley Metrolink transit station worker. They said a woman, maybe Lindsay, came in with a man on March 29 and they bought tickets to Los Angeles to transfer to Oceanside, California. They were apparently talking about going to Tijuana.

Detective Chris Lamb (12:43)

Yeah. On the date she went missing. And the 8:38 time frame is within the window she disappeared. Right. So last being seen by Donna at 7:45. And now we have potentially her being seen at the Metrolink station at 8:38 before she's discovered to being missing at 11:00', clock, 11:30 by the Tates. So this is a potential. It falls within a probable timeline of her being able to get to the train station and catch a train in that timeframe.

Ashley Flowers (13:16)

Contradicting that tip, though, was one that John passed along to police from a woman named Gloria McKinley. She was certain that she'd seen Lindsay at a 711 near Lindsay's house on March 31, the same day that she'd been reported missing. Gloria remembered it specifically because she noticed what the woman was wearing.

Detective Chris Lamb (13:37)

A woman in line at the store caught her attention because it was quite cold and the woman was Just wearing a short sleeve T shirt, which she thought was strange because of the it being so cold outside.

Ashley Flowers (13:50)

It was chilly in the, like, 40s or 50s. But Gloria figured that maybe because the woman was pregnant, she was running a little warm and didn't need a sweater. But even if this was 100% Lindsey, Gloria had no idea where the pregnant woman went or with whom. Without that, this was a lead that led nowhere.

Detective Chris Lamb (14:12)

Seven elevens tend to have really good surveillance systems now. So, you know, today's day and age, we would be able to really follow up on that and see if we can capture any individuals that might match that description on camera. Maybe getting into a car, maybe walking a certain direction back in 99.

Ashley Flowers (14:29)

Not so easy with these types of tips coming in. Maybe you'd be willing to forgive early investigators for thinking that Lindsay walked away. If that's what every tip is pointing to, maybe there's some truth to that. But here's the thing. I'm not convinced these were the only kinds of tips. These were just the only ones making it to police. Because in addition to media broadcasts and Simi Valley's missing person flyer, John Tate had helped put flyers up all over town. But instead of putting the number for police on them, he put his number again. I would love to ask John why he did this, but he never responded to a request for an interview. Maybe there's a good explanation. Maybe he wanted to do this because he felt like police weren't taking Lindsay's case seriously enough. Whatever the reason, this casts a shadow over the investigation that haunts Detective Lamb.

Detective Chris Lamb (15:26)

Is it a concern if this case takes a turn and becomes more nefarious than just a missing person? Absolutely. I think if John had any involvement in Lindsay's disappearance, he becomes a filter for that information. Now, you know, we only receive the responses that he wants to provide to us.

Ashley Flowers (15:46)

The idea that this was more than just a missing persons case was becoming a concern with the more time that passed. Because after canvassing her street in Simi Valley, calling around to jails and hospitals, and looking through Lindsay's voicemail and credit card, there was nothing. And when her due date came and went and there was no sign that she had used a medical card to pay for the birth of her baby, they had to start considering alternative theories.

Detective Chris Lamb (16:13)

I think everybody comes up with, okay, she left voluntarily. I think that was the first concern. Like, did she leave on her own? And then when she doesn't return or we have no leads and nobody's heard from her, people start to. The concern starts to increase. And then I think people start to formulate, well, what happened to her and who could have been involved. I think that's when the pool of potential suspects tends to increase, and so everyone starts to look at everybody.

Ashley Flowers (16:40)

Detective Lamb might consider everybody, but based on records, it really looks like back in the day, at least, Simi Valley PD really only looked hard at one person. And it's probably not who you think.

Lowes Announcer (17:01)

If you've got spring fever, Lowes has the cure. During Springfest, make your landscape stand out with three free bags of Miracle Gro 3/4 cubic foot garden soil. When you buy three plus, get up to 40% off, select major appliances to keep clothes, food and dishes fresh all season long. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's, valid through 422, while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See lowe's.com for details. Soil offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii.

Ashley Flowers (17:33)

When Lindsay went missing, she wasn't carrying her first pregnancy. She had an older daughter with her ex, David Sheehan. And one of Lindsay's friends, a woman named Karen Vermarsh, made a point to tell police that the relationship between Lindsay and David had been volatile.

Detective Chris Lamb (17:52)

Karen recalled that about six months prior to this conversation that she'd spoke to Lindsey about her relationship with David Sheehan. And during that conversation, Lindsay had told Karen that during the relationship with David, David had been abusive towards her. She thought that this was important, and then passed that information on to Detective Parks.

Ashley Flowers (18:14)

In his report, Detective Parks didn't go into detail about the abuse that Karen reported to them, not what kind of abuse, not about how long it supposedly went on or if anything continued after they separated.

David Sheehan (18:28)

Even though I wasn't with her like she was, we were like a big part of each other's lives at the time. Like kind of, you know, maybe not in relationship wise at the point that this happened, but like, I still like, it's hard for me to imagine that something happened to her.

Ashley Flowers (18:40)

That, of course, is David Sheehan.

David Sheehan (18:44)

She was real iffy, kind of like, and just like easygoing, fun, loving. She didn't like, sit there and talk bad about people very often.

Ashley Flowers (18:52)

David, for his part, didn't deny any abuse. When we asked him about it, he said he remembered when things got physical back when they were together. Both times were over another guy.

David Sheehan (19:03)

I'm not gonna say that nothing's ever happened physically between people, but I. I was a young boy, a young man or whatever, and she was a like and like. So we would have like, little, like, like fights, not. Not so much always physically, but like you know, I mean, yeah, she had that bad temperature. That's what I'm saying. Like, she was crazy. Like, I'm not crazy. She's awesome. But, like, she was a young, feisty little mama dude. And, like, I don't remember what I did, but I pissed her off. And so when I was walking away, she punched me in the back of the head. And then, like, I. She tried to, like, swing again and grab her hand and, like, bend her wrist a little bit.

Ashley Flowers (19:38)

As is the pattern with many volatile relationships, David says they always worked it out, but there were complicating factors in both of their lives that set the relationship up to be doomed, namely, drugs. Based on our interviews, both David and Lindsay had histories with drug use. The way David remembers it, neither he nor Lindsay actually had custody of their daughter. David's parents likely did. So he says that he didn't have much contact with Lindsay in the time leading up to her going missing, which maybe is one reason why Detective Lamb told our reporter Kate Mishkin that there doesn't seem to be any record of David being interviewed ever.

Detective Chris Lamb (20:20)

I mean, documentation seems to be. There's nothing that suggests that he wasn't interviewed, but there's no documentation of him being interviewed in the reports that we have access to. So could they have recorded it and just not typed it? Possibly, yeah.

Ashley Flowers (20:38)

What if they didn't talk to him at all?

Detective Chris Lamb (20:40)

I can't. I can't see why they wouldn't have interviewed him. But, yeah, we don't have that. I think that that would be. That would be a foundational interview. That would be when you're talking to family and friends. I think that that would be included. Considering they share a child in common. It's hard to get a temperature on the initial approach to this investigation because there was no evidence of foul play that led them to believe that this was anything but a missing person. So whether these were just, hey, have you heard from Lindsay? Let us know? Kind of conversations, and not really delving into a full investigative interview because you think something suspicious occurred. So the approach to the investigation originally, from what I can tell, is as a missing person's case. And so how hard do you press people for information if you have no foundation that something occurred apart from Lindsay voluntarily leaving, if that makes sense.

Ashley Flowers (21:46)

David actually has an explanation for why they probably didn't come talk to him in person, at least in the very beginning. He says that he was in a residential rehab in Tarzana, about 20 minutes from Simi Valley, closer to LA. If there's any way Detective Lamb could verify this. Now, this would give David a pretty rock solid alibi. David says that because he was in rehab, he actually didn't even know Lindsay had gone missing until his mom called to tell him.

David Sheehan (22:16)

So the first time that it came out on the news, I guess like. Or that we knew about it, like, I was in rehab because I missed it and I couldn't find it. But my mom knew about it. She's the one that initiated that call. Wow. But they. But police did not go to you that like in 1999 in rehab? Hell no. No, I didn't talk to them for a long time.

Ashley Flowers (22:39)

But a few weeks after Lindsay went missing, the Sheehans took on a project that caught the eye of Simi Valley detectives.

Detective Chris Lamb (22:47)

I think that there is concern that the Sheehans in at their residence at the time, had built a shed on their property. And the timing was quite suspicious. I don't exactly know when it was was. I think it was a couple weeks after Lindsay's disappearance. But again, as an investigator, I think they're looking at all options. And could that be a place where you can conceal a body? Sure. So I think that was something on the radar of the investigators at the time. To see if they could access that concrete pad. I think they built a shed on their property which was on top of the concrete pad. And could there be some potential that Lindsay could be buried there? Possibly.

Ashley Flowers (23:34)

This was, of course, something Kate made sure to ask David about.

David Sheehan (23:38)

The detective said something about like, you guys had a concrete shed at your house after Lindsey went missing? Do you? Does that? But see, the thing is. Oh, it rings more than a bell because the day that we were pouring a concrete slab because we were building the house was only a one bedroom house. And it was me, my mom, my daughters, and my dad was staying down in a little bungalow garage thing. So we were trying to put up a 10 by 12 room addition thing because that's the biggest shed you could build without getting permits. And so like, we were gonna put one together and that's what we were doing.

Ashley Flowers (24:12)

David remembers this interaction with police being more like a raid about drugs, not about Lindsay's disappearance. And David's open about his drug use and what he calls non people crimes. And honestly, I don't know how far off his interpretation is, because whatever they were suspicious of in 1999, it's not like they tore up the concrete or anything like that. Now, by the one year mark, there was very little progress in Lindsay's case. But June of 2000 brought a significant milestone for Lindsay's mom, Donna Ben Best. Lindsay's daughter had just turned five, and Donna believed Lindsay would never miss her daughter's fifth birthday. So more than anything before that, it was this date that made Donna believe her daughter wasn't coming back. She called police and told them as much, and in a vulnerable moment, she shared with them that she was losing hope. Unfortunately, we couldn't speak to Donna ourselves because she's since passed away. And though Lindsay has a younger brother, we weren't able to get in touch with him for this episode. Nothing changed for the rest of 2000, even into 2001. Except for a changing of the guard. 2001 is when the case changed hands from Detective Parks to Simi Valley Detective Jay Carrot. And Detective Carrot was the first, at least from what I can tell, to really look at the possibility of foul play. Seemingly prompted by a new tip, they received information that a potential witness, Miles Henley, heard that David Sheehan was talking about getting rid of a dead pregnant woman. And since Miles and David both happened to be in jail at the time for totally unrelated crimes, it gave police an opportunity.

Detective Chris Lamb (26:00)

Miles Henley had been put into a cell with David Sheehan in order to try and elicit information regarding the statement that Miles Henley had made.

Ashley Flowers (26:14)

The cops had Miles wear a wire, and then they sent him in to chat David up. David told us he knew Miles. Distantly, Miles had, like, dated a cousin of his, but he was surprised when he ran into Miles in jail. The conversation started casually enough. Miles was asking about when he was getting out, and then he's like, well,

David Sheehan (26:35)

what about your other case? And I'm like, what other case? He's all, the one with your kid's mom that's missing. And I go, what are you talking about, dude? Well, I let him get away with that, like, one or two times as he, like, time goes on in there. And I finally couldn't take it, and I told him, look, dude, I'm gonna tell you right now, like, that was it. Don't bring her up again. Because the thing is, that's a sensitive subject for me, bro. And that's like, if your mom just died, and I sit there and keep telling you, so how do you feel about your mom dying, dude? Like, to me, it's like, you're like, I didn't know what the deal was, but I just got fed up with it. And I told him, look, if you bring it up again, either you wait out in the showers for me when it's child time, or I'll Wait for you. But we're fighting, dude, if you bring it up again. And so then he brought it up again. And I go, all right, dude, you know what's up, bro? I said, I'll be in the showers waiting for you. He's like, no, dude, listen, dude. He's like, the reason I bring it up is because. Remember the other night when I got taken out for a stomachache? And I do remember because I was on the top tier, and I seen the whole thing, and I thought, that's weird for a stomachache. They take you out. There was two homicide detectives, just a district attorney, some other cops. And you're asking me if I'd wear a wire on you? And I just remember feeling, like, cold, thinking, what the, dude? And then all of a sudden, he goes. But I told him that. That every time that I bring it up to you, you get mad at me. And so now I don't want to wear a wire because I think that they're. That they're tripping. And I don't know what the truth of it in the matter is. All I know is that. So I ended up going to prison that time and getting out. Right. Well, in the morning. Okay, I'll tell you this in the morning after he told me, like. But by, like, three in the morning, he was moved out of the section, and I'd never seen him again.

Ashley Flowers (28:09)

Detective Lamb isn't quite sure what to make of Miles's story so many years later. Was it completely made up? Was he trying to redirect attention from someone else on to David? David, to be clear, denies any involvement in Lindsay's disappearance. And although he doesn't have a firm idea why Miles would agree to be an informant and seem to back out, David did tell us something interesting. The same way that he wasn't close to Miles, but kind of knew him. So did John. But that's really where the trail ended. And there's not much documented in the case for the rest of 2001, or really any of the years that followed. There's just one blip in 2009 when a film crew, two dogs, a medium, and a famous movie ranch gave them a new idea.

Melanie Flowers (29:06)

Oh, no, My coffee.

Detective Chris Lamb (29:08)

Brawny here, New Brawny.

Ashley Flowers (29:12)

Three ply is now more absorbed. Wow. Got a clean shirt.

Lowes Announcer (29:16)

Do you wear plaid, Ronnie? Some of the strongest.

Ashley Flowers (29:24)

In June 2009, Detective Carrot was still working the case when he heard from a show called Soul Evidence. If you haven't heard of Soul Evidence, that's because the pilot that they filmed never aired. But the premise was that psychic medium Alison dubois would team up with retired detective D. John Perkins and a forensic scientist who specialized in crime scene reconstruction to solve cold cases. The production team had picked Lindsay's case to investigate, which led them to a conversation with David and then to Miles, who told his story to the crew that he heard. David got rid of Lindsay at Whiteface Mountains next to Big Sky Ranch in Simi Valley. That, in addition to a second psychic medium's vision of a canyon and loose dirt, took them to an area of Big Sky Ranch recognizable from Little House on the Prairie and Twin Peaks. So the show brought two cadaver dogs to see if they might be able to detect some human remains. The first certified dog showed an indication at Big Sky Ranch, and the handler said a second dog, a not certified dog, had indicated in the same area as the first. So Simi Valley got LA county sheriffs to send over two cadaver dogs to of their own. They all met at the north end of Taupo Canyon Road, a windy road that cuts through Simi Valley's mountains, surrounded by wildflowers and rolling hills. The dog Kazaam, gave what is called a full alert, meaning the dog found something within a 50 foot square. Then the handler repeated the process twice more for safety. Kazaam alerted both times. Then a second uncertified dog named Flash went out. Flash also gave a full alert.

Detective Chris Lamb (31:13)

But the question does arise, like was it human remains? Was it cattle remains? I know they had received information from the owners of that area, that land, that a lot of cattle is buried out there. And so could that be providing a false positive?

Ashley Flowers (31:30)

Possibly false positives happen, sure. But with four alerts by four different dogs, it feels as good an indication as any that maybe we should get the shovels out, no?

Detective Chris Lamb (31:44)

Do they dig up the whole area? Do they take core samples? Do they utilize other technology that's available to them? I don't know. So I think at the moment in that time, they didn't do anything with with it. Also taking into consideration the original source of like out of all the other theories and possibilities and follow up that needs to be done, where is this on the priority list? And so I don't know. I don't know why no additional follow up was taken at that point in time.

Ashley Flowers (32:17)

When we followed up with Detective Lam, he confirmed some additional info. In June 2009, the police actually did take 15 soil samples from the site all over the area. That soil still exists and apparently is still with the private company that they used back in 2009 to test it. The problem is there aren't any records of what the test results were, whether there was or wasn't an indication of human decomp there or if it was inconclusive.

Detective Chris Lamb (32:49)

I think there's a lot of considerations to take in regards to how to approach embodiment. Right? Like, like I said with the big skyer, do you just dig it all up or do you use technology? Do you probe? Do we take new dogs out there now and see if they provide the same hits as the dogs that did back in 2009? So there's different ways to approach it, but ultimately, I think that's it. Right. There's leads that need to be followed up on. And again, I know we've talked, but even if they result in dead ends, at least we can close them out.

Ashley Flowers (33:24)

It seems like Detective Lamb might have a lot of the right pieces to be able to get a warrant to get on to Big sky where those dogs hit all those years ago. If nothing else, maybe he can go to the property owners and get permission. If remains ever are found there or anywhere else, police could try to match them against DNA they collected from Lindsay's mom and brother, which has been entered into NAMUS in case any unidentified remains turn up anywhere nationwide. Detective Lamb has his work cut out for him. He says he imagines his role like that of a football player picking up the ball and carrying it down the field a little farther. He might not make the touchdown, but if he does his job right, he

Detective Chris Lamb (34:07)

should make progress rather than going back. And not necessarily crazy criticizing how the investigation was done, but knowing what we know now and applying them to the situation back then, what would we have done different if we knew that Lindsay was going to be missing for the next 30 years? How would we approach this investigation off the, from the, you know, the jump off point, the initiating point? And would it have been much different? Probably somebody out there knows something that we don't know yet and that can kind of propel this case forward beyond anything that we currently have. And I think that that's, that's our hope in doing this, is that that person will come forward, provide us that information that we need, and can kind of bring some closure to this case.

Ashley Flowers (34:58)

If you're that person, you can email Detective Lamb at clamor@simevalley.org or you can call the department's tip line for the case. 805-583-6911.

Detective Chris Lamb (35:14)

And so it takes things like the deck of cards to kind of spur interest either in jails or podcasts like this to get it out to the public, to stir it and bring it back to life. And so hopefully it won't be a cold case for long. So we'll see. We'll see. Fingers crossed.

Ashley Flowers (35:47)

The Deck is an audio Chuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about the Deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com I think Chuck would approve.