Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Deck
Host: Ashley Flowers (audiochuck)
Episode: Margaret Reimann (Queen of Spades, California)
Date: November 19, 2025

Main Theme / Purpose

This episode centers on the unsolved 1986 murder of 73-year-old Margaret Reimann in Camarillo, California, a beloved family matriarch and trustee embroiled in a contentious inheritance dispute. Ashley Flowers and reporters examine the family dynamics, investigative leads, and recent developments, including breakthrough DNA testing, in hopes that renewed attention might help solve this nearly 40-year-old case.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Day Margaret Disappeared

• Margaret was last seen on November 2, 1986, preparing to leave for church.
• Family members noticed her absence and growing signs of concern (uncollected newspapers, dogs not let out) ([02:04]–[07:22]).
• After searching for hours, Wayne Hoffman spotted Margaret’s hand through the garage window. She was found dead in her garage ([08:00]).

2. Crime Scene Details

• Margaret found fully dressed, with purse and valuables untouched.
• Cause of death: blunt force trauma and a cut to her neck ([09:03]).
• Investigators believed the violence indicated a personal motive, not a robbery ([09:46], [11:13]).

"To beat her and to slice the neck open, that's personal."
— Detective Gerardo Cruz ([09:46])

• The garage had an unfamiliar padlock; the killer brought and used it to delay discovery ([10:18]).
• "Take That" written inside the garage door initially suspected as a message from the killer ([15:08]).

3. Margaret's Life and Family Relationships

• Margaret was unmarried, childless, but deeply connected with cousins, godchildren and her community. She managed family land and was known for her kindness ([13:14], [13:54], [14:31]).
• Extended family played significant roles at the ranch; many describe Margaret as nurturing and generous.

“She was everything to us.”
— Elaine ([13:54])

4. Inheritance Disputes and Suspicions

• Margaret was drawn into a legal feud involving her cousins over a multimillion-dollar tomato field inheritance ([16:30]–[26:11]).
• Cousins Pat, Trudy, and especially Barbara Geisler Kennerly were at odds.
• Barbara and her husband, Paul Kennerly, became the primary suspects due to their legal battles and perceived greed ([21:05], [23:09], [24:36]).
• Barbara and Paul moved onto the property unexpectedly ([28:34]), and relations soured.

“Barbara always seemed to stand a little apart… just eccentric as all get up and you never knew which way you were going with her.”
— Elaine ([18:43])

5. Investigative Stalls & Alleged Messages

• Police discovered "Take That" had likely been scrawled years before the murder, not by the killer ([29:57]).
• Barbara and Paul refused to cooperate with investigators, declined polygraph tests, and invoked their right to counsel ([32:48]).
• Family believed the murder was motivated by the inheritance feud; some speculated about a hired hitman ([35:48], [36:05]).

6. Breakthroughs and New DNA Evidence

• Case went cold until 2022 when Detective Cruz took interest, partly due to similarities with another unsolved murder ([37:22]).
• After reviewing old evidence, forensic scientist Kristin Kanko found a male DNA profile under Margaret’s fingernails in 2024; Y-STR testing allowed for lineage comparisons ([38:42]–[40:36]).
• Comparison with Kennerly male relatives ruled them out, but Paul and Barbara are still considered persons of interest due to lack of cooperation ([44:31], [44:35]):

“I do find them as persons of interest, it’s because of their lack of cooperation, not because I have any physical evidence...”
— Detective Gerardo Cruz ([44:35])

• Cruz now gathering DNA from all male relatives, ranch hands, and tenants to rule out others ([46:49]).

7. Alternate Suspects and Theories

• No credible suspects with motive beyond the Kennerlys and the “hitman” rumors ([45:40]).
• Investigators continuing one-to-one DNA comparisons, including cross-checks with another elderly woman’s murder in the county ([48:14]).
• Land developers seen as a theoretical suspect group—Margaret had declined lucrative offers, and the area was developed after her death ([49:28]).

8. Ongoing Investigation & Hopes for Justice

• New DNA methods and samples may yet find a match; old items (padlock, letters) are being reconsidered for DNA ([54:53], [55:10]).
• Margaret’s family, especially Bill Wise and Elaine, still grieve and hope for closure ([56:33], [58:02]).

“All I know is somebody's had 39 years of freedom. I want that to come to an end. That doesn’t bring her back, but at least that gives you a little peace of mind…”
— Bill Wise ([56:42])

• Detective Cruz expresses optimism due to remaining physical evidence and new investigative techniques ([57:20]).
• Call for listeners with any information to come forward ([58:13]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Personal Nature of the Crime:
  "To beat her and to slice the neck open, that's personal."
  — Detective Cruz ([09:46])

• On Family Discord:
  "Paul had mentioned something about that there was gonna be Cain and Abel in our family... never think it's gonna happen to you.”
  — Bill Wise ([16:46])

• On Margaret’s Generosity:
  “She was everything to us.”
  — Elaine ([13:54])

• Detective’s Frustration with Kennerlys:
  “I do find them as persons of interest, it’s because of their lack of cooperation, not because I have any physical evidence...”
  — Detective Cruz ([44:35])

• On the Lengthy Legal Battle:
  “When this started, it was $450,000 farm, and when it ended, it was $6.3 million. So the longer he held this out, he was making us money and him money, while they were keeping us in misery.”
  — Bill Wise ([52:47])

• On DNA Evidence and the Future:
  “This one still has legs. This one still has testing. This one still has people who need to be contacted. This… is still workable.”
  — Detective Cruz ([57:20])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:04] – Discovery of Margaret’s absence; family starts searching
• [08:00] – Wayne spots Margaret’s hand through garage window
• [09:03] – Crime scene details, evidence suggesting personal motive
• [15:08] – Discovery of “Take That” written on garage door
• [16:30] – Introduction of Barbara Geisler Kennerly as key figure
• [21:05] – Trudy Hall on Barbara’s obsession with money
• [32:48] – Kennerlys invoke right to counsel; refuse to cooperate
• [38:42] – Forensic scientist Kristin Kanko re-investigates evidence
• [40:28] – DNA under Margaret’s fingernails found; Y-STR testing begins
• [44:06] – Kennerly nephews excluded by DNA
• [46:49] – Detective attempts to swab all male suspects and ranch hands
• [48:14] – Potential link to Florence Hackney murder
• [49:28] – Land developer theory discussed
• [56:33] – Emotional toll on family; desire for justice
• [57:20] – Detective Cruz optimistic about ongoing investigation
• [58:13] – Call for tips from the public

Final Takeaways

• The murder of Margaret Reimann exposed deep-seated family rifts and suspicions centered on inheritance and legal disputes.
• Decades later, new DNA technology and dogged investigation are offering fresh hope, though no clear suspect has been definitively linked to the crime.
• Margaret's family still seeks closure; Detective Cruz voices optimism that a breakthrough may yet be possible.
• If you have information, you’re urged to contact Ventura County law enforcement.