Norris Evans (Jack of Spades, New York)

Summary

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The Deck — "Norris Evans (Jack of Spades, New York)"

Podcast: The Deck
Host: Ashley Flowers
Episode Date: November 12, 2025

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Overview

This episode of The Deck investigates the 1975 unsolved murder of Norris "Snooki" Evans in Rochester, New York—a brutal crime that left four young children motherless and has haunted the surviving family for fifty years. Ashley Flowers and her team partner with law enforcement, survivors, and family members to dig into a case that has grown cold, yet remains filled with unanswered questions and family secrets. Through interviews, case file reviews, and new insights from Detective Seth Carr, the team hopes to inspire someone with knowledge to come forward and finally deliver justice for Norris.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Crime Scene and Initial Response

• Timeline of Events ([03:09]–[05:23])

  • At 11:24pm on May 23, 1975, an anonymous call reported "family trouble" at 5 Crone Street.
  • When police first arrived, the house seemed quiet and dark; they left after a brief check.
  • Less than an hour later, another call, this time from neighbor Tom, prompted a return. Officers found Lewis Evans, Norris’s husband, distraught outside the home.

• Grisly Discovery ([05:28]–[06:26])

  • Inside, Norris Evans, 27, was found nearly decapitated, stabbed multiple times, naked from the waist down with ankles tied, and her house in chaos.
  • Four young children (two from Lewis's previous marriage, two with Norris) were present but unharmed. Conflicting reports placed them upstairs or in the living room.

• Evidence of Staged Robbery? ([08:14]–[08:31])

  • Lewis claimed $1,100 was stolen, suggesting burglary, but detectives remained skeptical, noting details that suggested possible staging.

Early Investigation & Family Dynamics

• Lewis Evans as a Suspect ([08:31]–[09:08])

  • Norris, called "Snooki," was viewed as a loving and non-confrontational person.
  • Rumors and some family statements indicated Norris wanted out of the marriage due to control and fear.

• Alibis and Discrepancies ([10:27]–[12:07])

  • Lewis claimed to be at work during the murder (confirmed by employer and coworkers), but had the opportunity to leave during breaks.
  • Girlfriend Gail attempted to alibi Lewis but provided a false timeline.

• Close Associates Under Scrutiny ([14:18]–[17:54])

  • Lewis’s half-brother Leroy and cousin Jesse were regular visitors, dubbed the "three amigos."
  • Friends like Napoleon also came under suspicion due to timeline discrepancies and physical evidence (bruises/scratches), but alibis appeared to check out.

• Widening the Net ([17:54]–[19:14])

  • Police also scrutinized neighbor Tom, a known burglar in the area (Calvin Burtz), and local teen George Johnson without result; none matched prints at the scene.

Motives, Money, and Life Insurance

• Life Insurance Clues ([19:40]–[21:40])

  • Disputed claims on Norris’s life insurance leading to allegations of forgery.
  • Lewis received two payouts: one from a pre-existing policy (after Norris’s mother was removed as beneficiary), and another taken out just eight days before the murder with a suspiciously "decreasing" benefit for Norris.

• Forged Signatures ([23:50]–[24:25])

  • Gail admitted to forging Norris's signature, first claiming it was for a medical record, then later admitting confusion about the policy.
  • A handwriting expert confirmed some signatures weren’t Norris’s.

• Lewis’s Ambiguous Statements ([24:38]–[24:44])

  • In a moment of sarcasm or rage, Lewis blurted:
    "I killed my wife. I shot her." — Lewis Evans ([24:38])
  • This did not match the actual cause of death (stabbing), further muddying the waters.

Trauma and Aftermath for Norris’s Children

• Growing Up Motherless ([25:21]–[26:43])

  • Darryl and Tamara share memories of a distant, unhappy childhood with Lewis and Gail.
  • Contradictory feelings: Tamara viewed her dad as a hero in her youngest years; Darryl had a more reserved, ambiguous relationship.

• Endless Doubt and Family Secrets ([27:11]–[29:08])

  • Family whispers and suspicions consistently pointed toward Lewis’s involvement or orchestration of the murder, possibly with Leroy and Jesse.

• Confronting the Past ([29:50]–[30:09])

  • As adults, Darryl and Tamara obtained the police report—confirmation of their suspicions about Lewis, Leroy, and Jesse potentially sharing in life insurance money.

New & Renewed Investigation

• Family Testimonies & New Tips ([31:32]–[32:53])

  • A relative claimed Leroy at one point confessed, stating Lewis made him and Jesse kill Norris, but he later retracted.

• Detective Seth Carr’s Fresh Perspective ([32:03]–[34:31])

  • Detective Carr was motivated to re-examine the case after Tamara reached out in 2020.
  • He disputes the official estimated window for time of death (11:30–12:30), suggesting it may have occurred earlier—compromising the suspects’ alibis.

• Unhelpful Interviews ([35:21]–[37:10])

  • Both Jesse and Lewis refuse to offer insight. Lewis uses the phrase: "I have nothing to add and nothing to take away." — Lewis Evans ([35:37]–[37:09]), repeatedly stonewalling investigators and reporters.

Present-Day Roadblocks and Reflection

• Lingering Doubt and Unidentified Evidence ([41:10]–[42:53])

  • Some fingerprints from the scene remain unaccounted for, but DNA was not properly stored.
  • Detective Carr is convinced the scene was staged: "I think she's murdered and it's staged to look like a robbery." — Seth Carr ([40:58]) "From looking at the photos, I think there's a strong possibility that the binding around her ankles or her legs is put on postmortem." — Seth Carr ([41:23])

• Family’s Certainty vs. Legal Proof ([41:57]–[42:10])

  • Darryl Evans expresses total conviction about Lewis’s involvement: "No. There's no way in the world." — Darryl Evans ([42:03])
  • Despite belief and circumstantial evidence, the case remains cold.

• Call to Action ([42:53]–end)

  • Detective Carr appeals to anyone with knowledge:
    "We need either a confession from the perpetrator or cooperation from people that have firsthand knowledge... it's never too late to come forward and share the information you have." — Seth Carr ([42:53])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Crime Scene Assessment:
  “I would walk into that crime scene... and think, man, she might be a victim of sexual assault.”
  — Seth Carr ([06:26])

• Skepticism Toward Alibi:
  “She's telling police, he came to my house at this time.”
  “Right. She’s trying to alibi him. Yeah.”
  — Nina Schulzman & Seth Carr ([10:27])

• On Family Motive:
  “She wasn't living a lifestyle that put herself at a high risk for being victimized.”
  — Seth Carr ([08:50])

• Staged Scene Theory:
  “It's staged to look like a robbery.”
  — Seth Carr ([40:58])

• The Relentless Wall:
  “I have nothing to add and nothing to take away.”
  — Lewis Evans (multiple instances, notably [35:37], [36:03], [36:48])

• Family's Closing Sentiment:
  “No. There’s no way in the world.”
  — Darryl Evans on whether Lewis and his circle are innocent ([42:03])

• Investigator’s Plea:
  “...it's never too late to come forward and share the information you have.”
  — Seth Carr ([43:32])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:09] — Officer Seth Carr describes the initial police response and conditions at 5 Crone Street.
• [05:23] — Discussion about the whereabouts and safety of the Evans children.
• [08:14] — Lewis claims robbery; Detective Carr's skepticism.
• [10:27]–[11:02] — Interview details concerning Lewis’s alibi and the girlfriend’s false statements.
• [17:47] — Discussion about suspecting and clearing neighbor Tom and teens across the street.
• [19:40]–[21:40] — Life insurance changes and questions about policy forgery.
• [24:38] — Lewis's ambiguous, sarcastic seeming admission.
• [25:21]–[26:43] — Darryl and Tamara reflect on their childhood.
• [31:32] — New investigation started by Tamara’s outreach in 2020.
• [35:37]–[37:09] — Investigator Carr and others try to interview Lewis Evans; stonewalled responses.
• [40:58]–[41:23] — Detective Carr explains why he believes the crime scene was staged.
• [42:53] — Detective Carr’s closing appeal for new information.

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Conclusion

Despite decades of investigation, substantial circumstantial evidence, family suspicions, and repeated police efforts, the 1975 murder of Norris Evans remains unsolved. The episode highlights profound familial trauma, a pattern of silence and stonewalling among key witnesses, and law enforcement's suspicion of a staged crime scene covering familial motives—particularly life insurance and the desire for a new life after the murder. The case now hinges on the hope that aging secrets or a long-held confession may finally deliver justice for Norris.

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If you knew Norris or have any information regarding her murder, you can contact the Rochester Police Department’s Major Crime Unit at 585-428-7157 or email [e-mail]. Tips can be submitted anonymously through Crime Stoppers at 585-423-9300.

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Transcript

[Ashley Flowers]

Some cases fade from headlines, some never made it there to begin with. I'm Ashley Flowers and on my podcast the Deck, I tell you the stories of cold cases featured on playing cards distributed in prisons designed to spark new leads and bring long overdue justice. Because these stories deserve to be heard and the loved ones of these victims still deserve answers, are you ready to be dealt in? Listen to the Deck now. Wherever you get your podcasts want evidence? It's time to earn your degree. Southern New Hampshire University has it. SNHU offers over 200 online programs so you can dig into what really drives you. No Set class times means that you can do it all on your own schedule and with low online tuition, cost doesn't have to stand in the way. When the facts line up, you follow them. Visit SNHU.edu dec to get started. That's SNHU Edu Dec VRBO's last minute deals make chasing fresh mountain powder incredibly easy. With thousands of homes close to the slopes, you can get epic pow freshies, first tracks and more. Find Last minute deals with the Last Minute filter on the app. Book a private vacation rental [e-mail] they say if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together. At Amica Insurance, we're built for our customers and prioritize your needs. Amica empathy is our best policy. Visit ameca.com and get a quote today. Our card this week is Norris Evans, the jack of spades from New York. In the spring of 1975, Norris was living in Rochester, raising four young kids. But one night someone entered her home and brutally attacked her, nearly decapitating her while her children were upstairs. Now, more than 50 years later, those same children are reopening old wounds, hoping that her killer or killers will be brought to justice. I'm Ashley Flowers and this is the deck. It was 11:24pm on a Friday night, May 23, 1975, when a man who refused to give his name called Rochester, New York police dispatch to tell them that there was some kind of family trouble at 5 Crone Street. Then he hung up. Quickly without saying much else. Rochester investigator Seth Carr shared reports with us which show that within 16 minutes an officer was pulling up at the corner duplex.

[Seth Carr]

When he got to the location, he notes that it's dark, there's no activity, knocks on the door, doesn't get a response. He made a mental note or recalled that there were people on a porch across the street, but everything seemed in order. He didn't find a complainant or any victim.

[Ashley Flowers]

The officer stayed for a few minutes, even shined his flashlight in the windows. But he didn't see or hear anything alarming. So he got back in his patrol car and left. But less than an hour later, police got a second call about the same address. This caller wasn't anonymous, though. It was a man named Tom who lived in the other half of the duplex. He said that his neighbor, 26 year old Lewis Evans, had just shown up and asked him to make the call because his wife was next door and she'd been hurt. The same officer who had originally been dispatched to 5 Crone street returned. And this time it wasn't quiet and dark. Lewis was outside, visibly distraught, standing with neighbors. And when the officer walked in the front door, he saw what all the commotion was about. The house was a mess, like it had been ransacked. Drawers rifled through, belongings scattered. Bones in the kitchen and living room were ripped from their wall connections. And in the middle of it all, in the living room, was Lewis's wife, 27 year old Nora Sevens. She was lying face down in a pool of blood next to the couch, with her arms stretched overhead. And clearly beyond saving, she was naked from the waist down, wearing only a blouse, and her ankles were tied with what looked like a white rag, maybe a cloth diaper. As horrific as this scene was, there was some relief because four children lived in the house too. Lewis's two sons from a previous marriage and the two that he and Norris shared. But they were all safe. Although there is some confusion today about where it is they were. One report from the medical examiner said that Norris, nearly two and a half year old son Darryl and her three month old daughter Tamara were downstairs in the living room. But Detective Carr told our reporter Nina Schulzman that he believes the children were upstairs when officers arrived.

[Seth Carr]

The way I'm reading it is that the kids are all upstairs. At least when the police get there, they're upstairs.

[Nina Schulzman]

Are they asleep?

[Seth Carr]

Dead? I can't answer. I don't know.

[Ashley Flowers]

That's kind of a running theme in this case. A lot has been lost to time. Records have gaps and memories have gotten fuzzier. But one thing was clear early on, this attack on Norris was brutal. When the medical examiner turned her over, he saw that her throat had been slashed so deeply she was nearly decapitated. And she had two stab wounds in her abdomen, two in her chest and another in her back. And in addition to the injuries on her upper body, they also noticed a groove on her thigh, like something had Been tied tight around her leg, apparently made by a rag and steel wire, both found at the scene. There were actually a bunch of rags bloodied and scattered near her body. By her head was a long tooth, metal comb. And the likely murder weapon, an 8 inch kitchen knife, was near her feet. So were her underwear.

[Seth Carr]

I would walk into that crime scene, from what I'm looking at and think, man, she might be a victim of a sexual assault.

[Ashley Flowers]

That's actually what Lewis told police. His first thought was when he found his wife. But in a later autopsy report, the medical examiner didn't document any injuries consistent with a sexual assault. She also didn't have any defensive wounds. And that may help explain why even with everything that happened inside that unit, no one heard anything. Not the teenagers who were hanging out across the street. The same ones that the officer said he saw when he stopped by around 1140. Ones who told police that they'd been out there since 9:30. And even Tom, the neighbor that Lewis went to for help, who shared a wall with the Evans, hadn't heard a thing.

[Seth Carr]

They basically said they didn't hear anything. Eventually they were alerted because Mr. Evans is knocking on the door. So he answers the door and he's just, you know, hysterical about what he saw.

[Ashley Flowers]

Lewis had still been emotional when police got there. He was upset. And when they asked him to sit in the back of a patrol car to give a statement, he got combative, even threatened to slap them. So they had to end up cuffing him. His story was that he had just come home from his shift at a local plant, and he walked in and found Norris there on the floor, already dead. He said when he saw the phone line had been ripped from the wall, he ran next door to get help. Lewis was able to confirm for them that the knife used in the attack was theirs. He recognized it from a chip on the blade. So whoever did this didn't bring, or at least didn't use their own weapon. And according to Lewis, they didn't leave empty handed. He said that the $1,100 in cash that he kept in a metal lockbox in the living room was gone.

[Seth Carr]

That would indicate that it could be a burglary, but it also could just be staged. You have to look at the possibility that the suspect and the victim are known to each other or even close to each other. You have to kind of keep all options on the table, especially from the beginning.

[Ashley Flowers]

And when looking at those closest to Norris and who may have had motive to harm her, they needn't look any further than the man they had in the back of their patrol car. To those who knew her, Norris, affectionately known as Snooki, did not have enemies.

[Seth Carr]

She wasn't living a lifestyle that put herself at a high risk for being victimized. So she's a housewife who is brutally murdered in her home with her four kids upstairs. That is a really shocking and disturbing crime.

[Ashley Flowers]

But the home where she was a housewife may have been where the danger lay. See, family told police Norris wanted out of the marriage, that Lewis was controlling and Norris seemed afraid of him and depressed.

[Seth Carr]

I don't recall if he was aware or not that she was considering leaving.

[Ashley Flowers]

Him, aware or not. Police learned that Lewis already had a girlfriend on the side, a 19 year old named Gail, who he'd been seeing since November of 1960. Gail told investigators that he used to talk about leaving his wife, but that had kind of stopped recently. She said they normally saw each other a few times a week, sometimes at his place, but usually at hers after work. And they spoke even more frequently. In fact, the very night Norris was murdered, Gail said Lewis called her three times from the plant. Once at around 6, at 8, and then again at 10. She remembered hearing machines in the background and that's how she knew where he was. And he stopped by her house after he got off at around 12:30 Saturday morning. Seems like a great alibi, except at least part of it. The part about him coming by is impossible, as our reporter Nina pointed out, because that was the exact time he had found his wife's body.

[Nina Schulzman]

She's telling police, he came to my house at this time.

[Seth Carr]

Right. She's trying to alibi him. Yeah.

[Nina Schulzman]

And he's not even trying to alibi himself in that matter for that time period. He's like, no, I left work, I came home.

[Seth Carr]

Right.

[Ashley Flowers]

The part about him being at work, though, that was true. Police verified it through his employer, Rochester Products. He was there from 3:45pm Friday to 12:08am Saturday, which his time card confirmed. Coworkers even remembered crossing paths with him. And some said that he was playing cards at around 11:30.

[Seth Carr]

So technically he's on the clock during these hours, minus his lunch break. And then they went through and they interviewed all these different people at the place that he worked. And they had all these different sightings of him at different times and different locations of the plant.

[Ashley Flowers]

As police interviewed people close to the couple, that Friday began to take shape. That afternoon before Lewis left for work, his half brother Leroy Barnes, and his cousin Jesse Martin came over to help him work on his car until he had to leave for work. Family said that the three of them were inseparable, so it wasn't unusual for them to be at the house, I mean all the time. From there, detectives were able to track much of Norris evening with the kids. Lewis friend Napoleon, known as Mississippi, said that he and his girlfriend stopped by at around 5pm so Norris could co sign a car loan for him. They stayed about a half an hour and then after that Norris spoke to her sister on the phone and hung out with a friend. A passerby last saw Norris at around 7:45pm sitting on her porch while the kids played outside.

[Seth Carr]

That eliminates anything occurring before husband went to work, right?

[Ashley Flowers]

But there was wiggle room. Employees said someone could slip away for up to an hour without being missed. Rochester Products was less than a 15 minute drive from where the house was, and Norris had told a friend that Lewis sometimes came home during breaks to grab a meal. And while he was there on Friday, his foreman noticed something odd. He actually thought Lewis went out of his way to be seen, like during that card game at 11:30, which just so happened to be about the exact time that the medical examiner estimated Norris had died. He put her time of death between 11:30pm Friday and 12:30am Saturday, also the same time that someone was calling police anonymously trying to get them to the duplex, presumably to find Norris's body. It was all feeling just a bit too contrived. Even if Lewis didn't do it, that didn't mean he wasn't involved. And if he was going to get help murdering his wife, police felt pretty sure they knew who would help him.

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[Ashley Flowers]

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[Seth Carr]

I mean, he's going to work, but then he's coming home and he's not at work and he's like. Because it's slow, and then he's back at work.

[Ashley Flowers]

Tom and his wife had even lived in the Evans unit before Lewis and Norris, so he knew the layout well. Still, he fully cooperated with the investigation, gave police his fingerprints, took a polygraph, and passed it. So then detectives also explored whether this could have started as a break in. Burglaries weren't unusual in this area, though none had been this violent. One early lead was a guy named Calvin Burtz. He was 19 and suspected of at least a dozen burglaries or robberies across the city. His MO Was mostly targeting women, usually late at night. But his fingerprints, already on file from previous arrests, didn't match any in the Evans house. And there wasn't anything tying him to the scene or to Norris. And then there was George Johnson, one of the teens on the porch across the street. He said he was there from 8:30 to a little after 11pm and his friends back him up. But no one could say where he went after. And George had a troubling history. Drug use, robbery, confessions, and a role in an assault where a man was stabbed. One friend said that the voice on the anonymous call could have been his. However, another didn't think so. Plus, George ended up agreeing to take a polygraph, though it's unclear if he actually went through with that. But his prints didn't match either.

[Seth Carr]

I think they were covering all their bases. I think that they were definitely interested in it being a family member, whether it's Lewis or another family member of his. But they also weren't tunnel visioned. There was some burglaries in the area. They Were, you know, going and interviewing suspects in those burglaries to trying to figure out if they could be involved or not involved in this.

[Ashley Flowers]

Investigators tried interviewing the Evans kids, but they were so little. Lewis's sons were only five and six, and they couldn't offer any details, although some relatives told police that Darryl the toddler blamed his daddy, Lewis and Uncle Leroy for hurting his mom. The two men shared a lawyer, and when police circled back to them and to Jesse, all of them refused polygraphs. Try as they might to look for alternate suspects, all roads kept leading them back to Lewis. Even when they attempted to focus on the cash that Lewis claimed was missing, they were chasing smoke because some of Norris loved ones doubted it was even real. They said that Lewis didn't keep that much money laying around. And if Norris had known about the cash, which he claimed was just sitting in plain sight, they believe that she would have taken it and left him. Money was one of the only things that was stopping her. But now she was dead, and Lewis wasn't out money he was about to gain. Some detectives learned Norris had taken out a life insurance policy in 1971 before even marrying Lewis. Her mother was a beneficiary until 1973 when it changed to Lewis, though mom didn't know that because after the murder, both Lewis and Norris mother tried to collect the policy proceeds, about $17,000. And this is when her mom found out about the change, and she alleged that the beneficiary change was forged. Now, the insurance company eventually punted that to the courts, but in the meantime, Lewis was doing a okay because he got $12,000 from a policy he'd taken out just eight days before Norris was killed. Now, technically, this policy ensured his own life, but it heavily covered Norris with a decreasing term benefit that paid the most if she died soon and then dropped to nothing. Over time, it also covered the kids, even though there was no trouble getting this one paid out. Investigators thought Norris mother was onto something. They spent the next year digging into the paperwork because even though the new policy was on Lewis, Norris had to sign off on it, and they weren't convinced she had. So in January 1977, they brought Gail back in. By then, she and Lewis were living together, and this time, she admitted the obvious. She'd lied about Lewis stopping by the morning Norris was found, although it's not clear if he asked her to do that or she just took it upon herself. But then, in this interview, she dropped the real she had forged Norris signature. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends. Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language Progress. For over 30 years, Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language on desktop or mobile, whenever and wherever it fits your schedule. Honestly, it's the perfect companion for kids in language classes. I mean, do you know how much tutors cost? With Rosetta Stone you can get a lifetime membership for 50% off. I'm learning Portuguese, no lie. It is hard, but I have a friend who is also learning it at in person classes once a week and I am running laps around him because I can take my lessons with me wherever I go. So don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. The Deck listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com deck to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to Rosetta Stone.com deck and start learning today. Gail says she forged the signature months before the murder in March of 1975 to use Norris's health insurance to get treated for, let's call it, a sensitive medical issue. She said Lewis had her practice signing Norris's name to make sure she got it right.

[Seth Carr]

She pretended to be Lewis wife so that she could get that taken care of with insurance.

[Ashley Flowers]

A handwriting expert concluded the signature on the second policy was Gayle's, not Norris's.

[Seth Carr]

They confronted her with that and then she conceded. Well, maybe she did do that. She stated that she believes that she may have forged Norris name on the policy, but does not recall doing so.

[Ashley Flowers]

Memory loss aside, at least Gail was talking. Lewis, who was also at the station angrily waiting for Gale to finish, wouldn't answer any questions. But he did make some statements.

[Seth Carr]

I think he's saying it sarcastically, but Mr. Evans then shouted, I killed my wife. I shot her.

[Ashley Flowers]

Of course, Norris hadn't been shot, so whatever that was a bad joke, a burst of rage. It wasn't a confession, but it was strange.

[Seth Carr]

They advised them, we're just trying to figure out who killed your wife.

[Ashley Flowers]

Lewis basically told them not to bother, and while they didn't listen, leads did dry up and the investigation stalled out for decades. All the while Norris's kids, Daryl and Tamara, were growing up without her. Their mother was a mystery. I mean, practically a ghost. Here's Daryl Evans.

[Darryl Evans]

Nobody ever told me they never sat me down and told me, this is your mom. This is what she did.

[Ashley Flowers]

What little Darrell did know came from his older half brothers.

[Darryl Evans]

They'll say that best mom I ever had. They've stated that like, she's the only mom that'll take us bike riding or take us for walks. And yeah, they share that. That's the best mom he ever had. Very good woman.

[Ashley Flowers]

At first, Tamara lived with her paternal grandmother. But eventually both she and Darryl ended up with Lewis and Gayle, along with Gayle's son, Lewis's other kids, and a daughter that the couple shared. It was a full house, but not the happiest. Lewis was gone a lot, and Gayle pitted the kids against each other. Darryl said there wasn't much affection for him or Tamara.

[Darryl Evans]

I didn't get any hugs or kisses growing up. She didn't either. Nobody done that for her.

[Ashley Flowers]

Still, Tamara told our reporter Nina that when she was little, Lewis was her hero. Although that ultimately changed for reasons she didn't want to get into. Darryl's relationship with Lewis wasn't exactly warm and fuzzy, but it wasn't bad either.

[Darryl Evans]

I was his earpiece. We didn't spend too much time together, but the time we did spend together was just me and him. And he would tell me stories about his life and things that he did.

[Nina Schulzman]

Did any of those stories include your mom?

[Darryl Evans]

No, Very, very few.

[Ashley Flowers]

Lewis never talked about how Norris died. Tamara heard that story elsewhere. Whispers from both sides of the family. And they all said the same thing, that at Lewis request, people close to him killed their mother. Tamara calls it the worst kept secret in her family. Once Darrell asked Lewis about it point blank.

[Darryl Evans]

He said, I don't know what happened. And we both teared up. And so at that point I thought maybe, you know, this dude had nothing to do with it.

[Nina Schulzman]

Did he seem offended when you asked him that?

[Darryl Evans]

No, not at all.

[Nina Schulzman]

Did he seem surprised?

[Darryl Evans]

No. And I believe I asked him, did he have any idea who could have did it. And that's when he told me she had a cousin that was on drugs real bad.

[Nina Schulzman]

That was the theory he gave you? He didn't say. I think it was like a robber or random. His specific thing, cousin who was on drugs.

[Darryl Evans]

And I think, like, he's not a dummy. I think he know that there was no forced entry, so it had to be somebody that she let in. But then, you know, later on, I'm thinking, man, you control your woman. They have to do everything you say. How you say when you say, she's not gonna open the door. For anybody. I don't care if it was her mama. She's not gonna open the door unless you okay it. So that went through my head, too. She's not opening the door for her cousin, Especially on drugs.

[Ashley Flowers]

Darryl tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. Still, it always bothered him and Tamara. They wanted answers and justice for their mom, but they didn't know how to get it. And then one day, Tamara turned to social media.

[Darryl Evans]

My sister Tamara went online and they had this Facebook group in Rochester. Do you remember when. And she stated about the situation with my mom, and she said. A couple of people said, yeah, I remember that. And then this Arthur crime writer reached out to her, and then eventually to me. And then he said, I'll get the Republic police report. He got the police report and sent it to us.

[Ashley Flowers]

Finally, they could read about the investigation themselves.

[Darryl Evans]

It's too simple. I mean, a fifth grader can read this and tell you this. The conclusion, Things just add up, and then one plus one is two all day.

[Ashley Flowers]

Something else also clicked Once they had all the facts. Lewis had always explained away some money that he and Leroy and Jesse came into by saying it was a settlement from a car accident. But now Darryl believes that the money actually came from Norris life insurance. And if that's true, well, why share your wife's life insurance money with your half brother and your cousin? It didn't make a lot of sense to them. So adults now. And with questions compounding, Darryl and Tamara confronted Lewis and Gail. Gail eventually admitted to them that she'd forged Norris signature, but only on that medical record. And no one confessed to murder.

[Darryl Evans]

I was asking him questions about what I read in the police report. I told him I had the police report, and this is what I see. And then I was asking him questions, and he would, of course, deny him. And then I would insult him like you lying to me. And that was the end of our communication.

[Ashley Flowers]

Lewis never confessed to Daryl or Tamara. But you probably know the old adage, three can keep a secret if two of them are dead. But there were still two other people alive and well right after Norris's murder. And according to one relative, Leroy had done some talking over the years.

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[Ashley Flowers]

As the siblings kept digging, a relative told Tamara something that she had never told anyone. That at some point leroy had confessed to her. Said Lewis made him and Jesse kill Norris. But later Leroy recanted. Now, unfortunately, by the time Tamara heard this, it was too late to go ask Leroy because he had died years earlier. But it wasn't too late for Rochester police and investigator Carr to take a fresh look.

[Seth Carr]

February 2020 Tamara reaches out to our office. She's looking for an update. I basically become her point of contact. Then we go from there. The case was not active at the time of her call, but her call prompted me to look at it. It's one of the most interesting cases I've investigated because of the theories surrounding it and because of the family dynamics and and having like certain family members that are suspicious of Lewis, investigating a.

[Ashley Flowers]

Decades old murder isn't easy. But Carr added a few new pieces to the case file, like a vague memory from Lewis oldest son who recalled Uncle Leroy possibly telling him to go upstairs into the attic that night. Carr also spoke to that relative that Leroy allegedly confessed to.

[Seth Carr]

When I talked to her, she confirmed that story. She said that Leroy made a comment to her years ago that Lewis made him and Jesse do that to Norris. She said this disturbed her, said why would you do such a thing like that? And then Leroy eventually recanted and said he made it up.

[Ashley Flowers]

In January 2022, Carr and a colleague paid Jesse a visit. He invited them in, but he wouldn't go to the station with him them.

[Seth Carr]

We interviewed him on his terms, which was standing there basically in his foyer with his wife standing there next to us.

[Ashley Flowers]

This wasn't the same woman who'd backed up his alibi in 1975. She had passed away by that point. But it's worth noting that one of the differences in Carr's investigation is that he doesn't think the alibis hold much weight anymore. Because in his mind the 11:30 to 12:30 estimate for Norris's death is almost certainly wrong. I mean, we know that the house was quiet when the officers stopped by Friday night from 11:40 to 11:45, and Norris was dead by the time police were called back on Saturday at 12:33am.

[Seth Carr]

More importantly, that's just, like, not really something that I would think the medical examiner could scientifically say. So I feel like that might have been influenced by the information that they had, that there was a 911 call at 11:30. So I sort of feel like maybe there was a lot of weight put into that, that, hey, this must have happened around 11:30 because we had this 911 call. There's not a single soul that indicates that there was a problem at 11:30 other than this mysterious 911 call.

[Ashley Flowers]

So he thinks the murder likely happened earlier at a time when the men's alibis weren't as solid, and he was excited to get in front of the two who were still living, Jesse and Lewis. And while Jesse was willing to talk, his story was odd.

[Seth Carr]

He allegedly never even had conversations with Lewis about, hey, what happened to your wife? Who killed her? Then later he says, well, Louis and him were always trying to figure out what happened, but they never could. It's like, in one breath he's saying, like, I never even had conversations with Lewis about this. And then in another breath, he's saying, well, Lewis and I always tried to figure out what happened, but we never could figure it out.

[Ashley Flowers]

That conversation with Jesse was confusing and unhelpful. In the end, police still thought Lewis was their best shot at getting answers, and he was their next stop.

[Nina Schulzman]

You go to his house, and he does invite you in, right? He's like, come in.

[Seth Carr]

Yep.

[Nina Schulzman]

And then what happens?

[Seth Carr]

He answers every question with, I have nothing to add, nothing to take away.

[Ashley Flowers]

And Carr is not exaggerating. Here is part of that interview.

[Seth Carr]

What do you remember from that guy?

[Lewis Evans]

I have nothing to add, and I have nothing to take away.

[Interviewer]

So if I could say something, the guys that investigated this, it was 45 years ago. So we were kids at that time, and we don't have the information. Sometimes it's good to have a conversation with somebody that was actually there instead of just reading a report. So kind of get a flavor or feel for what you remember at the time that that occurred.

[Darryl Evans]

You know what I mean?

[Lewis Evans]

Does that mean I have nothing to add, nothing to take away? And like you said, it's 40 some years. I can't tell you what I did last week.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, okay.

[Darryl Evans]

All right.

[Seth Carr]

Well, do you Support the fact that the police department's investigating the death of your ex wife?

[Lewis Evans]

I'd have nothing to add.

[Seth Carr]

Okay.

[Lewis Evans]

Nothing to take away.

[Interviewer]

Do you want the person that killed your ex wife to come to justice, or do you want an arrest to be made?

[Lewis Evans]

I have nothing to add and nothing to take away.

[Interviewer]

That's a very interesting remark to what I just asked you. I don't know what your relationship was like with her, but she got killed, and. And you think that for somebody in her life, we wanted to see that the person that did it was prosecuted, you know, for doing rail. You don't agree with that?

[Lewis Evans]

I have nothing to add and nothing to take away. Some people said, I have nothing to add and nothing. So you don't deny that I have nothing to add or nothing to take away?

[Interviewer]

So the people that say you did it, they're right.

[Lewis Evans]

I have nothing to add and nothing to take away.

[Darryl Evans]

Okay.

[Ashley Flowers]

So overall, attempts to talk to Louis were unproductive.

[Seth Carr]

I've never seen anything like it, to be honest with you. I've seen people say, I want a lawyer, or I don't want to answer your questions. That's fine. I've never had anybody say like, yeah, you can ask me anything you want. You can come over and interview me and then proceed to have this recited. Answer to every question that's asked, by the way.

[Ashley Flowers]

At some point, Lewis changed his name. He goes by his middle name now, Andrew. And when Nina spoke with him, he claimed that his name was never Lewis, which doesn't line up with his old yearbook or the police reports or any official paperwork from back then. So for consistency's sake, we're gonna keep calling him Lewis. Anyway, Lewis is still in Rochester, married to Gayle. He wasn't home when Nina stopped by, but he called her back after she left her card and a note, and he gave her pretty much the same treatment he gave police.

[Nina Schulzman (phone interview)]

I was hoping to talk with you about the murder of Norris Evans.

[Lewis Evans]

No, I don't have nothing to add to that.

[Nina Schulzman (phone interview)]

Nothing to add to to what? I mean, it's a new conversation. You and I haven't spoken before.

[Lewis Evans]

Yeah, I don't have nothing to add to that.

[Nina Schulzman (phone interview)]

Can I come back over to your house and talk to you for just a few minutes?

[Lewis Evans]

Heck, no. No.

[Nina Schulzman (phone interview)]

Can I ask you a few questions over the phone?

[Lewis Evans]

No. You can ask. I won't answer.

[Nina Schulzman (phone interview)]

Well, I have a whole list of questions that I'd love to ask, but seeing as I don't think I have much time with you here, I'll Just jump to the most important one. Did you orchestrate her murder?

[Lewis Evans]

Okay. Anything else?

[Nina Schulzman (phone interview)]

What else again? I have an entire list of questions. I have a lot of questions for you.

[Lewis Evans]

Yeah, not for me. You barking up the wrong tree, man.

[Nina Schulzman (phone interview)]

You were married to her, weren't you?

[Lewis Evans]

I will not talk to you again. Have a good day.

[Ashley Flowers]

Nina left her card at Jesse's house, too, and he got back to her about a week later, but he just said that he couldn't remember much from that time. And he claimed to know nothing about the murder. Eventually, his wife got on the phone and blamed Jesse's memory issues on illness and said that they'd been harassed online about the case. We weren't able to reach Napoleon Louis friend who was at their house earlier that day, but Carr interviewed him, and he doesn't believe that Napoleon was involved. Norris children, though, they kind of have lingering doubts. In family conversations, his name kept coming up. Like that account he gave police in 1975. Just never sat right with them. And it's not clear if investigators ever verified it. Norris was a stay at home mom with no income, so why would anyone ask her to co sign alone? So if that wasn't why Napoleon stopped by, they wondered, well, then why did he? Darryl and Tamara also said that Lewis would have never let that happen.

[Darryl Evans]

He don't allow that. He wouldn't allow that his wife to do something like that for a friend.

[Ashley Flowers]

Carr says that he isn't locked on a single theory.

[Seth Carr]

The suspect could be among all this paperwork. In all likelihood, it probably is. But you know, there could be a suspect out there that's just not even documented in any of this, that we just never linked to this.

[Nina Schulzman]

Which theory do you think is most likely?

[Seth Carr]

If I was to had to gamble, that's the more probable scenario. That there's some sort of family secret here and somebody in that circle knows what happened. That's where I'm at. I mean, you have the insurance policy and you have the girlfriend on the side, and that becomes your new wife and you collect the money.

[Ashley Flowers]

But it's not just about who had motive. It's about what the crime scene says.

[Seth Carr]

I think she's murdered and it's staged to look like a robbery.

[Ashley Flowers]

Carr believes that Norris was killed before the anonymous phone call was placed. The fact that no one nearby reported hearing a commotion suggests that she was caught off guard and killed. Crash quickly. And he noticed something interesting in the crime scene photos. The binding around Norris's ankles looks loose, like she could have wriggled out of it.

[Seth Carr]

From looking at the photos, I think there's a strong possibility that the binding around her ankles or her legs is put on postmortem, that she's dead already and they put that on.

[Ashley Flowers]

If that's true, the bindings weren't to restrain. They were to sell a certain story. And if the scene was staged after the fact, a random robbery isn't very likely. All of this is what led many to believe that the answers lie close to home, including some of Lewis's own family, none more firmly than his and Norris's children, who no longer speak to him.

[Nina Schulzman]

I have to ask this. Is there a world in which they're not responsible for this? They didn't do it.

[Darryl Evans]

No. There's no way in the world.

[Nina Schulzman]

There's no world for him.

[Darryl Evans]

No way in this world.

[Ashley Flowers]

But belief and proof are not the same thing. And this brutal murder is still unsolved more than 50 years later. Those fingerprints lifted from the scene have been run through modern databases. Some still have not been identified. Those could be nothing. It was a duplex that others had lived in before, and a lot of people had legitimate reasons to be in that house, including some of the main suspects. As for DNA testing, evidence just wasn't stored in a manner that gives police the opportunity to conduct additional testing. Now, future advances in forensic science might change that, but investigators don't think that this case is going to be solved in a lab.

[Seth Carr]

We need either a confession from the perpetrator or cooperation from the people that have firsthand knowledge. And I think there are people that have first hand knowledge. I think there's people that have real knowledge of what occurred that weren't directly involved and could provide us with that information. If that information was provided to us, that could tilt the scales. In this case, the person that committed this crime could actually be held accountable and they should be held accountable. And it's unfortunate and sad that they've gotten away with it for 50 years, but it's never too late to come forward and share the information you have.

[Ashley Flowers]

If you know anything about the murder of Norris Evans, please call the Rochester Police Department's Major crime unit at 585-428-7157 or you can email them at majorcrimesityofrochester.gov if you want to remain anonymous, you can also call Crime Stoppers at 585-423-9300 or submit a tip online. The Deck is an Audio Chuck production with theme music by Ryan Lewis. To learn more about the Deck and our advocacy work, visit thedeckpodcast.com I think Chuck would approve.

[Seth Carr]

America, America, you used to be so fun but now you go to bed at night scrolling on your phone. Well listen up America, Carnival is here with world class crew and ropes course too. And comedy and snorkeling and dining like everything from sea to shining sea. Find your fun [e-mail] Carnival is calling ships registry the Bahamas in Panama.

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