Bonus: Preparing for a Holiday That Will Disappoint

Summary

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The Deep Dish: Bonus Episode

Preparing for a Holiday That Will Disappoint

Host: Melissa Kruger and Courtney Doctor
Date: November 20, 2025
Podcast: The Gospel Coalition’s “The Deep Dish”

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Main Theme & Purpose

This bonus episode, released just before Thanksgiving, dives into how to approach the holidays when reality is likely to fall short of our high hopes and expectations. Melissa Kruger and Courtney Doctor discuss the gap between our idyllic visions for Thanksgiving and Christmas and what actually happens—with special attention to the tender places this season can touch in our hearts. They offer practical, gospel-rooted advice on managing expectations, handling disappointment, and cultivating genuine joy, gratitude, and hospitality.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality Gap: Why Holidays Disappoint

Timestamps: 02:13 – 04:12

• The episode is intentionally titled “Preparing for a Holiday that Will Disappoint” to center on realistic expectations, not pessimism.
• Both hosts acknowledge loving the holidays deeply, but also highlight the consistent gap between expectations (idyllic, social, and spiritual) and reality.
• Melissa shares a personal struggle: her oldest child won’t be home for the first time due to missionary training, pointing out that many women especially feel pressure to create the “perfect” holiday.

  “There's just some reality that we always have higher expectations than will most likely come to pass when it comes to the holidays.” (Melissa, 03:01)

2. High Expectations: Sources and Impact

Timestamps: 06:36 – 08:26

• Pop culture (Hallmark movies!), social media, and nostalgia all stoke unrealistic visions of family harmony and spiritual warmth.
• These expectations are “normally good”—desires for togetherness, celebration, and meaning—but are still, in many ways, unachievable in a fallen world.
• Both openly process how new life stages (kids marrying, moving for jobs, etc.) bring necessary adjustments.

  “It's the lie that you can have it all, and this is what all looks like.” (Courtney, 08:16)

3. Changing Expectations Through Seasons

Timestamps: 09:53 – 13:52

• Courtney reflects on moving from expectations of a “conflict-free” holiday to intentionally letting go:

  “Learning to let go of the fact that I'm expecting it to be conflict free or that I'm going to be the best version of myself for 10 straight days with 20 people in my house…” (Courtney, 10:47)

• Melissa notes how adulthood changes the holidays—less time off, more responsibilities, busier kitchens, and less rest.

  “Someone has to cook the turkey... I've really had to, in some ways, learn to guard my heart from not heavy bitterness, but just like, well, yeah, it'd be nice to be sitting down with the family playing games, but someone has to cook the turkey, you know…” (Melissa, 12:52)

4. Dealing with Disappointment in Ourselves

Timestamps: 13:52 – 18:41

• Holidays also expose disappointment in our own hearts—not just in circumstances or others.
• Cultivating a heart of gratitude is a year-round pursuit, not something that can be whipped up for a holiday.
• Practical tradition: one family keeps a “thankfulness jar” all year, reading its contents together at Thanksgiving as a ritual to enhance gratitude.

5. Holiday Expectations & the Role of Others

Timestamps: 18:41 – 23:58

• Much disappointment stems from expectations of others’ behavior—hoping they’ll show up with gratitude, get along, or be their “best selves.”
• Both hosts emphasize empathy—everyone brings their own burdens and stories to the table.
• Practicing humility: Recognizing we sometimes cause others disappointment, too.

  “I am responsible for some of the disappointment that other people feel…everybody in the room...is experiencing that moment differently.” (Courtney, 21:59)

6. Practical Preparation for Disappointment

Timestamps: 23:58 – 29:47

• Proactive questions: What specific situations may disappoint me this holiday? How can I plan my responses and actions?
• Try listing two or three things you want to be or do (e.g., be intentionally present with grandchildren) and mapping out meaningful conversations in advance.
• Courtney suggests shifting from a reactive mindset to a proactive one—fostering connection, not only avoiding discomfort.

  “How can we foster conversations we really want to have? Because I think sometimes my disappointment is we were all together and did we really connect?” (Melissa, 28:12)

7. The Church’s Role & Broader Welcome

Timestamps: 30:39 – 36:31

• Deep loneliness marks the holidays for many; the church is called to “set the lonely in families.”
• Practical encouragement: look around to invite others in, even if it disrupts tradition.
• If you are lonely, speak up—ask leaders/pastors for connection.
• Melissa and Courtney share family stories of always making room at the holiday table for the “extras.”

  “Our entire table is going to be richer and more beautiful and more delightful, I think…when I can get really protective of my table…instead of being more generous with that space.” (Courtney, 32:33)

8. Balancing Hospitality and Spiritual Focus

Timestamps: 36:31 – 39:41

• Melissa compares herself to Martha: busyness can crowd out “Mary moments” of sitting with Jesus and being present.
• The “logistics” matter but must not eclipse genuine inclusion and spiritual focus.

9. Grounding Ourselves in Scripture

Timestamps: 39:41 – 46:04

• Recommendation: Memorize Psalms to “turn our hearts;” for instance, Psalm 66 for cultivating praise.

• Advent devotionals and intentional reflection anchor the soul amidst holiday busyness.

• Courtney’s go-to is Galatians 5:22—the Fruit of the Spirit—posted visibly as a character check:

  “Am I being loving? Joyful?... Kind...Good to people? Self-controlled?” (Courtney, 44:10)

• Additional resource: TGC’s printable PDF for a “Christ-centered holiday” with prompts for gratitude, worship, and serving others.

• Melissa: “The most important thing I can do is be, you know, spending time in the Word and in prayer and really taking the time to sit still before him and let my soul be transformed.” (Melissa, 42:58)

10. Looking Forward and Ultimate Hope

• Even in disappointment, the season points us to the future feast in Christ’s kingdom—“One day…there will be no sighing, no sadness, no sorrow.” (Melissa, 47:35)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the “Idyllic” Holiday:

“In your mind, you're harmonizing…As if I even know what those are.” (Courtney, 03:31)

On Real-Life Disappointment:

“I was trying not to count how many Christmases and Thanksgivings I will not have all my kids home. And I was just so sad.” (Melissa, 06:00)

On Empathy Around the Table:

“I am someone else's cause for maybe prayer or disappointment…how am I going to deal with her this holiday?” (Melissa, 23:58)

On Hospitality and “Enough”

“If we pull out some paper plates, it's totally okay.” (Melissa, 36:31)

On Spiritual Preparation:

“Consider, think upon these things, prepare your mind for action…and that is just such a great printable.” (Melissa, 46:04)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:31 – Beginning of content episode (Hallmark movie confession)
• 03:01 – Why holidays “will” disappoint, not just “might”
• 05:21 – Emotional stakes and family pressure
• 06:41 – Tenderness when family is absent
• 09:53 – Shifting expectations across life seasons
• 13:52 – Holidays exposing disappointment in ourselves
• 17:08 – Year-round gratitude, “thankful jar” idea
• 19:34 – Holiday expectations depend on “other people”
• 21:59 – Recognizing we disappoint others, too
• 23:58 – Specific, proactive holiday prep questions
• 27:03 – Praying for and planning meaningful conversations
• 30:39 – How the church can welcome the lonely
• 36:31 – Hospitality and balancing “Mary and Martha”
• 39:41 – Scripture as holiday anchor (Psalms, Advent devotionals, Fruit of the Spirit)
• 46:04 – Pointing to the “greater feast” to come

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Tone & Style

True to the signature “Deep Dish” style, the episode is warm, conversational, and sprinkled with laughter and genuine emotion. There’s a spirit of realism, humility, and gospel hope as Melissa and Courtney draw from their lives and Scripture to equip listeners for the tension between our longings for “the perfect holiday” and the beautiful—but always messy—reality of real life, real families, and real faith.

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Final Thoughts

If you’re facing this holiday season with a tender heart, big expectations, or a creeping sense of disappointment, this episode is for you. The hosts gently remind us:

• Disappointment is normal—holidays never measure up to our most cherished visions.
• But each gap, each unmet expectation, is an invitation to humility, gratitude, relationship, and longing for our true and future Home.
• Scripture, prayer, and simple, intentional acts of presence and inclusion can transform even “imperfect” celebrations into times of deep blessing and Christ-centered joy.

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Resource Highlights

• “The Gift of All Gifts” (Melissa’s new kids’ book)
• TGC’s printables for Christ-centered holidays
• Year-long jars of gratitude for Thanksgiving
• Galatians 5:22—Fruit of the Spirit as a daily/festive anchor
• Psalms & Advent devotionals for reflection

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Standout Moment

“This feast will disappoint. But one day, one day we're gonna be in the new heavens and the new earth and we are gonna feast. And there will be no sighing, no sadness, no sorrow. And our hearts are rightly longing for that.”
—Melissa Kruger (47:35)

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For deeper connection, subscribe to TGC’s Women’s newsletter for questions, memory verses, and resources. Visit tgc.org/women.

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Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Melissa Krueger]

Can I tell you a Kruger family secret?

[Courtney Docter]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

Guess which Kruger member watches the Hallmark movies?

[Courtney Docter]

Oh, I totally know, but it's only because I know it's the big burly Mike Kruger, the New Testament sculpt scholar who knows better.

[Melissa Krueger]

Hi friends. Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast from the Gospel Coalition where we love having deep conversations about deep truths. I'm Melissa Krueger and I am here with my friend and co host Courtney Docter. Hey friend.

[Courtney Docter]

Melissa hey friend. Well, we're excited because we have a special bonus episode for you today. Actually going to release this episode a week before Thanksgiving. And the reason we're doing it is because we all know that the next six weeks can just demand a lot of us. We have so much we're looking forward to. We have things that our hearts are hoping for, longing for. We have these really high expectations and so we want to talk about those things and how, how to manage these expectations and how to manage our hopes for the holidays. So Melissa, I want you to tell the listeners why called this episode Preparing for a Holiday that Will Disappoint rather than calling it Preparing for a Holiday that Might Disappoint.

[Melissa Krueger]

Well, you know, we were just dealing with reality. There's just some reality that we always have higher expectations than will most likely come to pass when it comes to the holidays. And I think we have visuals in our mind of the family singing hymns around Christmas, carols around the Christmas tree. I mean, my family can't even sing. And I still. I mean, there's no way it's gonna sound good.

[Courtney Docter]

But in your mind, you're harmonizing. You know, everybody takes a. Like a vocal part. As if I even know what those are.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah, yeah. And we don't have a piano, but somehow in my image we do. And you know, it's just this. And it's also this visual of. I just feel all the spiritual feels I'm supposed to feel. That's a lot of feelings, right? But you know, it's this. It's not just supposed to be fun and friends are around and these warm emotions. I'm also deeply engaged in worship. Like those are like. I want, you know, we want all of these things.

[Courtney Docter]

We want all of it. And reality is never going to match the. These expectations. And we're gonna dive into all of that a little bit more. But just on the front end, we just wanna be super clear that we love Thanksgiving and Christmas. We love the holidays. We are not haters of this. We're not trying to be like Debbie Downers that you know it's gonna be bad. No, it's gonna be glorious. But there's always a gap between our expectations and reality. And before we even get going, just to prove that you are not a Christmas hater, I wanna call out the fact that you have a new kids book coming out. And I just got it this last weekend, got my hands on it, read through it. I'm actually hopping on an airplane in a couple hours taking it to my grandchildren in Nebraska. It is called the gift of all gifts. And what it does is it actually holds these things intention of the beauty of the season, the hopes that we have, but really anchors us in Christ. So I know that's a little bit of a commercial, but you're my friend and I have the. I have the prerogative to do that. It's beautiful and I'm excited about it. And we love Christmas, but we do, we do.

[Melissa Krueger]

And, and, and you know, and my, my mom just always made Christmas so fun. So I don't know, I think sometimes as women we feel really like we're the holder of the holiday. You know, whether we're making cookies for our neighbors or our co workers at work or whatever. I think, you know, we come into this just with A lot of expectations, even on ourselves.

[Courtney Docter]

Absolutely.

[Melissa Krueger]

Of giving the right gift to our friends. All the things are just in our minds as we come into this. And I have to admit, can I say this is a little bit of a tender topic for me. This morning I was crying about this. This morning I forgot that this was the episode we were going to do. But yesterday I found out that my oldest will not be at Christmas or Thanksgiving because of. Of some. She's at missionary training and then she's leaving. And so it will be multiple. I was trying not to count how many Christmases and Thanksgiving I will not have all my kids home. And I was just so sad. And I. Yeah, I was like, okay, how am I going to battle this? How am I going to battle my expectations of what I think I even have a right to on Christmas?

[Courtney Docter]

Like, yeah. Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

Like, well, I'm okay. I knew when they got married I'd give up one.

[Courtney Docter]

Yeah, but you're giving all of them both.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah. I mean, so it's a. Yeah, we're all coming into this from tender spaces. And it might be that you feel tender because you're like, I haven't had a good Christmas in 10 years. Melissa, do you like a listener? Yeah. I mean, somebody might say it's lonely.

[Courtney Docter]

Every year, or maybe it's the first Christmas or holiday without a parent. There's so many reasons why. Or maybe you just moved. I mean, that's where we are. And. Yeah, it's so hard. My kids, my boys, my oldest two got married six weeks apart. And so that first Christmas I was. It was. Half of my children were not there that first Christmas after they were married. And it's just. It's change and it's. It feels like loss, doesn't it? And so, yeah, as we head into this, first of all, y' all need to be praying for Melissa this Christmas and Thanksgiving because it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be sad. But there are so many things that. And you started kind of talking about this and alluding to it. The things that really feed maybe. Maybe erroneous expectations. I think that our. Our own hearts can create expectations. But, I mean, I just wanna be like. Raise your hand if you watch too many Hallmark movies, because there. That. Where it creates this, you know, idyllic. The snow is falling. Well, what if you don't live where it snows and you cut down your own fresh Christmas tree and, you know, everybody loves the gifts you gave and the turkey turns out right. And the cookies are delicious and decorated and it's just. It's like, it's. It's the lie that you can have it all. And this is what all looks like.

[Melissa Krueger]

Can I tell you a Kruger family secret?

[Courtney Docter]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

Guess which Kruger member watches the Hallmark movies.

[Courtney Docter]

Oh, I totally know, but it's only because I know it's the big burly Mike Krueger, the New Testament scholar who knows better.

[Melissa Krueger]

He cracks me up. He's just like, it's just always so happy. I'm like, oh, my gosh, you're killing me. I can't watch them. And he loves them. It kills me.

[Courtney Docter]

Amazing.

[Melissa Krueger]

That is the picture that I think we all have kind of coming into the holidays, we have really high expectations. We come in and let's just say they're high, but they're normally good. You know, it's. It's a right thing to want, you know, friends and family nearby and to see them and celebrate together. I mean, those are. Those are all. All really good things. So let me ask you this question. How have your expectations for the holidays changed over your adult life? You just mentioned that with, oh, the first year, your kids weren't there and you lost. Lost. Didn't mean it that way. Two of them in one year weren't there. And so that was kind of a, oh, you know, that's a hit. But how have your expectations changed through the years?

[Courtney Docter]

Well, I think it's a battle to kind of navigate my own expectations because like you said, most of these longings are good and right. It is a deep longing in most of us to have a full table of people sitting around. It is a good and right expectation to want to feel feast and laugh and have it be rich in relationship and joy and all of the things. And so navigating our own hearts to say these are good and right expectations and then know where we live in the story of redemption that we live in the already and not yet. And so already we will experience some of the joys and the blessings, but we are not yet there. We are not yet at the feast, end all feasts. And it is actually the thing that our. That our souls long for. And so I think even becoming a parent of adult children or being a woman who has adult children, I think you have to shift some of those expectations. And it's an intentional pursuit in me because I really do long for this idyllic thing, and my kids would testify to this. But learning to let go of the fact that I'm expecting it to be conflict free or, or that I'm going to be the best version of myself for 10 straight days with 20 people in my house, you know, I'm just not. And yet, in my mind, that's what I go in, wanting and expecting and so. Or this expectation that everybody, you know, no friends, are going to cancel, you know, and not show up, even though I've already set the table or whatever the expectations are. It's just learning to say, oh, those are expectations. And it's actually okay if those don't come to fruition, but to see the joy that's actually there. What about you?

[Melissa Krueger]

You know, I'm gonna even go back earlier where my expectations had to start changing. I think when you move from.

[Courtney Docter]

An.

[Melissa Krueger]

Academic calendar and you get two weeks off at Christmas and, you know, many days off at Thanksgiving to just the working world, right? And all of a sudden you get two days off and you're like, I'm supposed to have this luxurious time, even with. With my, you know, before I was married, just with my family, to relax and reset. And that really changes when you move into the working world. I mean, I felt that when I now I went into teaching, so I still had a good break. So. So I. So it was actually, as I moved into different seasons, I was like, oh, it's. It's not quite the same. And I think there's this deep desire for even rest at the holidays. And that changed as I suddenly became in charge of the cooking. I was like, right, that's nice that everybody's enjoying a puzzle while I'm chopping up the celery for the stuffing or whatever. And I've really had to, in some ways, learn to guard my heart from not heavy bitterness, but just like, well, yeah, it'd be nice to be sitting down with the family playing games, but someone has to cook the turkey, you know, kind of that thing that can rise up. And so I think one of my expectations has had to change. From it's just going to be restful to, oh, it might be really busy, and that's okay, and enjoy the busyness, enjoy the mess in my kitchen. Enjoy that there are shoes all over the place, and that's a beautiful sign of fullness. But it's changing what I'm thankful for. Whereas I think I'm longing, you know, a little bit to rest and just be able to be still. And I have had to change that expectations, you know. Yeah, for sure.

[Courtney Docter]

As.

[Melissa Krueger]

As I've grown. Now, the other thing I think we want, okay, we've got Thanksgiving, and then we've got Christmas, so Thanksgiving, it, you know, we are supposed to come into with truly grateful hearts and focusing on the Lord and who he is and what he's provided. And then we move right into Christmas and we're supposed to have this. You know, I picture these moments. These are the moments I want. I want reading my Bible, staring at the lights on the tree, overwhelmed with gratitude that God of all the world chose to become man and dwell among us. And then I'm invaded by. Did you remember to get that gift for so and so? Did you. You know, it feels like the busyness, you know, seems to invade that. So how. How can we deal with our frustrations and our disappointments, even with ourselves during this season, when we. And maybe how can we create space for those moments in the. In the next six weeks? Do you have any advice or wisdom?

[Courtney Docter]

Well, I do think that there is this desire in us, and we feel the tension of our hearts aren't all of a sudden miraculously full of gratitude at Thanksgiving or in an abundant way or in a, you know, higher, more intense way, or the same thing at Christmas. We want to just rejoice in the incarnation and experience God in a new way. But I would just say that we need to be cultivating hearts of gratitude all year long. We need to be praising God for the incarnation of all year long. It just this idea that we can maybe even neglect those things and then want them to fall fresh on us in the holidays is. It's not helpful. It's actually not the life of a Christian. So this idea that we would be curating grateful, worshipful hearts all year and not try to have this hyper experience of it and at the same time recognize that it is good for us to have rhythms where we say, oh, I'm really going to focus on this and I'm really going to prioritize this. And so I do think, like, the disappointment is not just in, you know, we didn't get the invitation to the party or so and so canceled or, you know, the kids can't show up or we can't travel or whatever it is. It's also in this. My own heart is not what I want it to be. And so it's actually a great opportunity to step into this moment where we actually can be sanctified in our disappointments. And I know we're going to talk a little bit more about that, but it's not so much just giving ourselves a break. It's not just. It's not so much just saying, I need to be easier on myself sometimes. I need to be a little bit harder and say, stop and think about what are you. What are you actually desiring? And then what are you actually trusting God to do and to provide and to curate and. And cultivate? And so that's this idea of, like, dealing with our own hearts. But so often we're thinking like our expectations hinge on other people. Right.

[Melissa Krueger]

Let me piggyback on that really quickly because I love what you were saying about cultivating it through the year. I never did this, so I'm going to go ahead and claim that I maybe should start doing this. I had a good friend, they kept a jar on their table, and every time something throughout the year happened that they were really thankful for, they would put it in the jar. And then at Thanksgiving, what they would do is open the jar up and remember the whole year. And I love that idea because sometimes, you know, we just want practical ideas. But then along the way. So you can start it in January. Okay, so just dream about January. If we're. We're already just getting set for that, that's not that far away to just set a jar and start saying we're going to put things we're grateful for, whatever it might be. Because I think then it allows you to come to the end of the year and it's the cultivating of the thankfulness rather than in the midst of the flurry and cooking and doing people coming in trying to create it. You've been creating it all year, and then, you know, you can really celebrate it because you've been working on it all year. And I think it helps us to do that. It helps, you know, if you've got kids, it helps them to learn to do that. If you've got roommates, it's a good thing to even do with your roommates and just say, hey, let's do this, and do your friendsgiving or whatever that you're doing. But I think it's a. It's a helpful way. I can't remember who told me that, but I was like, that's a great idea. And then I never followed up on it. And that sometimes happens, but it is.

[Courtney Docter]

It's just a practical way of doing this thing that we're talking about that we're. But then I love that it actually comes to fruition or culmination at Thanksgiving. Like, that's. That's a beautiful kind of both and of a way that Thanksgiving can be a little bit more intense. Well, I want to look at two sides of the same coin. I'll Start with the first one. And I think so often the expectations that we have for the holidays really hinge on other people. We want them to show up. We want them to be thankful. We want them to give a good present. We want them to, you know, be the best version of themselves, whatever it is. And so how do we. How does that impact, in very negative ways, our own ability to navigate the holidays when we're looking to other people to make it what we want it to be. So that's the first side of the.

[Melissa Krueger]

Question that's hard, Courtney, because other people were just perfect. We'd have a perfect holiday. Right. I mean, if they could just get it together and everybody be so thankful for every gift that we painstakingly picked, it would all be right. And if no one was selfish or taking the last cookie or whatever might happen in our homes, and if I didn't revert back to my teenage self when I go home. Yeah, I mean, like, all the things. Right. There's just a lot. I mean, I think we love people, all of us, you know, I mean, we love our families, and so we. We hope that they bring their best selves to the table.

[Courtney Docter]

But the.

[Melissa Krueger]

The reality is sometimes I think we bring our. Our worst selves to the table. We do revert back to old behaviors and I think maybe even just setting our expectations and, and being understanding and tender hearted toward one another. Not as an excuse to have short tempers or be unkind. Not in any way. I mean, but also just to be understanding that everyone coming into that gathering is dealing with something maybe their expectations weren't met. And here's what I've realized. The more I've aged. I don't know if you feel this way. The more I have come to realize what bothers me is not what bothers someone else, and what bothers someone else is not what bothers me. Yeah. And so I might be doing something very annoying or hurtful to someone else that I really don't mean to be. And the same is true of others. And so just giving a lot of patience and kindness to one another that. Oh, that what I just said was not meant to be a poke at you, but I think there's just a lot of feelings, too. I mean, I think that one of the best ways to prepare is to prepare to put our apologies on and be quick to say, oh, okay. I think my comment really hurt you, and I did not. Can you tell me why?

[Courtney Docter]

And I'm sorry.

[Melissa Krueger]

Now, let's be clear. Sometimes our comments are jabs and we just need to own those and say, sorry, I mean, we know the difference between the two.

[Courtney Docter]

Yes. And so even back to that question you asked early on about how I've changed, as you know, through the years, like, how have my expectations changed? I think part of that is it's a huge part of accounting for the fact that I am responsible for some of the disappointment that other people feel. And just holding that, like, very loosely and saying, because I was probably way too old when this thought crossed my mind, but it's. Well, not just that thought. That's probably definitely way too old for that, but also the idea that everybody in the room, whoever it is in the room at the moment, is experiencing that moment differently. And to give people the freedom to say, you're bringing your own story to the table here. And you. I know there's one person who is around our table a lot at the holidays, and this particular person, just even the slightest hint of conflict is very rattling to this person. Well, I am, like, all conflict and challenge and discuss and debate all day long. It doesn't even cross my mind that that's happening. And I love those kind of vibrant conversations, and a lot of people around my table love those kind of conversations. And I've had to really account for the fact that not everybody at the table feels that way. And so just even this idea of, like, holding it loosely, of just everything you said, everybody's experiencing their own thing. Everybody's experiencing this moment differently. And I'm the disappointment. I'm the struggle. I'm the problem that some people are wondering how they're going to overcome in the holidays. It's so humbling.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Right?

[Courtney Docter]

But it's actually good to get there. It's really good to get there. It's freeing to get there.

[Melissa Krueger]

So. So that is such a good point. And it's a humbling point. You're really right. Like, I am someone else's cause for maybe prayer or disappointment, like, dealing. How am I going to deal with her this holiday? Patiently and kindly. And it does create in us a sense of patience with others when we do that. So practically, okay, we're getting ready to go into these holidays. Practically. We can believe in our mind, okay. It's probably going to be disappointing in some way, but I do think it's even good to say it and maybe even in your own head, say, what am I prepared? Might be disappointing, you know. You know, for me and to own it, like, okay, it's going to be disappointing to me if Aunt Betty, mysterious Aunt Betty, Brings up politics again and everybody gets into a big fight about it, you know, or whatever. Like so, so almost maybe thinking through what are the disappointments we may see or we may know in our family situation and how do we prepare for them?

[Courtney Docter]

Oh, that's really good. And thinking through, right, like what is my response going to be? That's actually helpful. Not just helpful for me, but helpful for everybody. And like what are those moments that my anxiety always rises and what can I do to navigate even that so that I'm just a non anxious presence? I've started actually ahead of time just identifying two or three things that I know not just I want to do, but that I want to be in the settings and like one of them for me, because I have grandchildren, I want to be intentionally present where I'm listening to them, where I stop long enough to really like attune to them and listen to what they're saying because it can get a little crazy or chaotic. And so that's something that I just ahead of time intentionally think that's, that's important to me. I want to do that no matter what else is going on, no matter what else I'm feeling. I really want to be present for that person. And I think that can be whether that's grandchildren or whether that's, like you said, roommates or friends that we have at our table, people from church. I want to be present and listening because that's hard for me. I just kind of the whole thing can pass and I will just think, oh, that was so fun. But I don't know that I really feel like I was present in that moment. Does that make sense? I don't even know if that makes sense. But I just can get so busy and so caught up in the fact of, you know, I love like we had a whole big group from our church here, it was actually this summer. But you know, I love having women from my church over at Christmas. And I can just get so busy and having so much fun with the whole thing that I don't stop and really intentionally have these conversations with people. And so just those little things that mean something to us that's even a.

[Melissa Krueger]

Good here that this is making me think if I don't do this, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. Like what are the three conversations proactively I want to make sure to have with people, you know, because I was thinking reaction, but that made me think, huh, maybe I need to take some time to pray before people come home and just think about their lives for a moment slow down and say, oh, I want to make sure to follow up with so and so on that diagnosis and ask how their hips doing or whatever. Or I want to make sure. And I want to make sure with my dad to ask him this. And maybe I want to have a time where we ask them to tell the whole family, when did y' all meet? How did y'. All. Yeah. Or some fun story. Like, I'm not good about proactively thinking. And. And that's making me think, oh, I should. I should think not just how can I avoid uncomfortable discomfort or maybe conversations I don't want to have, but how can we foster conversations we really want to have? Because I think sometimes my disappointment is we were all together and did we really connect?

[Courtney Docter]

Yes.

[Melissa Krueger]

And, you know, yes.

[Courtney Docter]

That's what I'm trying to say. Yes.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

How do I do that? Well, and I think for me, one practical way is to do food prep ahead of time, if I can, because I do, in my mind, get busied with all these people. People have to eat. And so I'm like, I. I feel like that starts. The practical things start taking over that ability to sit and listen that you were talking about. But I also really want to think through. Hmm. What are the conversations I want to have, like, of activities? What are the three things I want to make sure I make time for? Is it just sitting around doing a puzzle? But I like to really do that with them, you know, I don't know, trying to think through what are not. What's everything I want to do, but what's the top two things I want to do?

[Courtney Docter]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

And that. That would help me.

[Courtney Docter]

Well, and even just as you, I know when your youngest went to college this year, you gave her three questions to ask everybody that she, like, you proactively thought of these three questions. And I'm thinking, yeah, what if I proactively think through just. Even the fact that. Even if I don't have specific questions because everybody's different, what if I just proactively think through the fact that instead of. Instead of talking about myself so much, maybe ask. Starting every conversation with a question about somebody else, like, what a novel idea that would be. So I. Yeah, I love that. Proactive versus reactive. Well, let's take a break for a word from our sponsor quickly. And when we come back, we're going to actually talk about how God's word speaks to our holiday expectations.

[Narrator/Announcer]

There is something powerful about walking through the Bible at the same time, when everyone is reading the same Scripture. Each day, conversations change, hearts open, people feel connected not just to God, but to each other. One Year Bibles are designed to guide readers through the entire Bible in 365 days. It is one reading a day. And by the end of the year, you will have gone through the entire Bible together. One body moving in one direction through one story. It is more than a reading plan. It is a way to build unity, deepen discipleship, and create shared momentum to know God and each other more. Find a one year Bible for your community at the1yearbible.com.

[Melissa Krueger]

Welcome back. We're talking about the difficulties of, you know, holidays that can, will, might probably are going to disappoint. And, and so let me ask this question. How can the church help in the season? Look, we know just from studies that are out there that for a lot of people the holidays are really lonely. I mean, there's a deep, deep loneliness. I mean, this is, this is a hard season for a lot of people. So how can we as believers look beyond maybe our, you know, families of origin, you know, to the church family? And if, if we're lonely, how can we look there to find family? And if, if our, if our families maybe feel full and robust, how can we look to bring people in? I love, you know, there's a verse that says he sets the lonely and families. I think that's the picture of the church. So how can the church really be a help in the midst of holidays that disappoint?

[Courtney Docter]

Man, It's a heavy question because I know that probably every single person listening has some place in the holidays that's very lonely for them. And so as the church, how are we looking around and seeing our brothers and sisters, seeing the one who, this is her first Christmas without her mom or without her husband, or this is someone's Christmas where maybe she has children but they are estranged or they just live too far away or they don't prioritize being together. I mean, there are so many ways that we are lonely. Maybe, maybe it's somebody who's in grad school and you just don't have time. You have this one day off like you were talking about, Melissa, and you have this one day off and you want it to be something special, but you can't travel. And so what do you do? How do you. Well, the church, if the church would just look around and make sure that we see people and just invite them in, our entire table is going to be richer and more beautiful and more delightful, I think. And I am speaking about Myself and to myself here, when I can get really protective of my table, whoever's there, especially these big holidays, you know, well, this is the time that I'm just going to have my closest friend group or this is the time I'm just going to have my family or this is the time, you know, that I'm just going to. Instead of being more generous with that space and saying who does the Lord want to bring? And realizing and recognizing that it's going to be a more beautiful, richer time because of who is there. And I would say that if you are the one who is dreading the holidays this year because you are so worried and so sad that it is going to be a lonely holiday for you, speak up, reach out, be proactive in this. Because it is. As much as I want to say church, look around, do this, we don't always do it. And so I also want to say, man, say something and say, could I be there? I mean it's a humbling thing to say. I'm going to be lonely if I'm not. But I will be better off for being there too. Like we really need each other. And so for whoever we are, can we move towards this idea of the beauty of the fellowship that can be ours?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

I even think, you know, one ask the Lord to find a place for you to be. But I think if you ask your, your pastor or your elder even to say, hey, you may not know. I, I can't go home for a variety of reasons or maybe there's no home to go to or whatever. Just tell them your story and say will you pray for me? Because I'm, I'm really worried about being lonely. I think just that willingness to share. Sometimes people just don't know.

[Courtney Docter]

They just don't know.

[Melissa Krueger]

Here's what I'm going to say. My sister in law does this so well. She, I tell you every Christmas Eve, we've done Christmas Eve together. I don't even know how many years there are. There are extra people at our table. She may have, she may have asked him the week before but she also may have just seen him at Christmas Eve service and said, hey, do you have anywhere to go to for dinner tonight? Just brings them over and I can tell you it is richer because of it. And let me also say everyone acts a little bit. They're better on the family, is better behaved when guests are around. And so it's not actually a bad thing because everybody's like, oh.

[Courtney Docter]

That'S amazing.

[Melissa Krueger]

Really show up because there are, there Are other people here, But I'll just say, and, you know, and even my mom did this. Everyone was always welcome, and I just really appreciate it. Looking back, I knew I could just invite extra people. This stuff, and it. It was okay. And I think having that view of family where it's that, hey, y', all, come in. Like, we. Yeah, we've created. There were. Yeah, we've created this space. I'm making a turkey. Bring it. Brought one more person. They're gonna be enough. We'll just make a little pack of gravy if we have to or whatever. Yeah, I mean, we. We'll. We'll do what we need. But I do think that openness can be such a blessing, not just to the church family, but to your own family.

[Narrator/Announcer]

And.

[Melissa Krueger]

And I. I just. I. I love having the eyes to see, and I want to do better at that. But I've really learned it from both of them, just their willingness. Because I can be a little bit too much. A little bit too concerned. Like, do I have enough plates? Do I have enough. You know what? Like, adding. People can feel I can get too logistically minded rather than relationally minded. And I just need to be like, if we pull out some paper plates, it's totally okay.

[Courtney Docter]

Yes. You know, the most ridiculous thing that I get kind of weird about so many of them, but one I'll share right now is, like, how many people, how many chairs I have, you know, and, like. Like, are they all full? Or what if I don't have enough? Like, I mean, so we sit on the couch or the. A chair. And, I mean, it's so funny. I'm like, no, I only have so many chairs. And I think the Lord's like. But even as you were talking, I was thinking about Mary and Martha in Luke 10. And, you know, so often we kind of overplay that story a little bit. Like, oh, Martha was in. Right? Martha's over doing all the cooking and all that. And the reality is we have to do the cooking. Like, we kind of are like, oh, Martha, silly you. But the reality is, like you said, you're chopping celery while they're doing puzzles. And Jesus commends Mary for the better thing, for sitting and listening and being with him and. And at Christmas, I think we really need both. We need to have. We need to still prioritize kind of some alone time with Jesus so that we're just remembering to ask him to do these things in us and through us and for us. And then we have to chop the Celery or clean the kitchen or whatever the dishes have to be done, whatever it is. But I liked how you were talking about just even in that planning, how we can kind of push into almost more of like the Mary mindset, you know, of. Of, yes, these things have to be done and yes, I will need enough dishes, but they may not all match and some of them may be paper. And what, you know, whatever it is we have to let go of, I guess, is what. And kind of pushing towards is like we just sometimes have to let go of things in order to do this thing that you're holding out to us, which is a beautiful inclusion of neighbors and friends and co workers and church members and, you know, including them in the feast that the Lord has provided and the beautiful thing that he's doing, hopefully in us and through us. Okay, so we said we were going to talk about this, and I think it's really important that we do. So what scripture passage is. Is there anything that would be helpful as all of you all. And we're heading into these next six weeks. Are there some good places to go in Scripture specifically? Stick with your same reading plan. I'm not saying just jump out of that, stay in your same reading plan, but is there something that maybe you could memorize or that you could really meditate on over the next six weeks that would help? Just keep it before you. This thing that we're talking about.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's a great question. I'm always big or I've become big on memorizing psalms because I just think they turn our hearts, which is kind of a promo for the conference. I did not mean that to be.

[Courtney Docter]

They turn our eyes, Melissa. They turn our.

[Melissa Krueger]

Turning our eyes. So it can prepare you for coming to TGCW 26 this summer, which is June 11th through 13th.

[Courtney Docter]

Look at you, girl.

[Melissa Krueger]

Look at you. Look at me. I've been around you long enough to remember that was not meant to be. But we would love you there. But I've been. I've been memorizing Psalm 66. You know, it just starts with the shout to joy. Yeah, shout with joy to God, all the earth. I mean, it, it raises your heart just to start saying it to yourself over and over and over again, and it reminds you of truth. But also, I do love Advent devotionals. There are some great ones out there, and they do help me. And I know we should be celebrating the Incarnation all year round and all of that, but I think it is, it's great, you know, at Easter to really think about the resurrection and what happened. And it's great at Christmas to think you became a baby. I loved it. All my babies were born in fall. And there was this. I can just remember holding a little baby and just thinking, Jesus did this.

[Courtney Docter]

Like God, you know, so helpless, so needy. It's like, what, you can't even wrap your mind around it.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes, yes. And so it's just the wonder of that should be wondrous. And I think it's good to have resources that will help our minds. I know TGC's put together a few devotionals. We had the Weary World rejoices. And then I think it's unto us. We have two of those. And I just. They're. They're set out. You read a passage, there's a reflection. Read, reflect. There was another R. Rehearse, maybe. Rehearse, yeah, rehearse. And something like that. Yeah, there was something. And I. I think those are genuinely helpful for our hearts to just help us engage. And I think taking the time to do that and praying through our attitudes, praying through our fears, praying through our worry, praying through our fretfulness. I mean, the Lord says, cast all your anxiety on me because I care for you. And he invites us not to be anxious, but. But to bring our anxieties to Him. And he promises the peace that transcends understanding, will guard our hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. And so I think there's. That prep work is the most important prep work. As we go in, I tend to think of it as I need to get my veggies chopped so that I can make the stuffing, or I need to, you know, get three meals prepared. But the most important thing I can do is be, you know, spending time in the Word and in prayer and really taking the time to sit still before him and let my soul be transformed. Because it's in those moments most often that I realize I need to apologize for what I said. I need to go to that person and say, hey, I didn't respond well to that. Will you please forgive me? And that. That is where relationships are going to actually be strengthened in our, you know, whoever's in our home. But I think we need to, if I could say, prioritize anything as we prepare, that would be bound. What about you? Do you have any passages of Scripture that you love to meditate on as you go in?

[Courtney Docter]

Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about that. But before I share it, can I just say I'm astounded at how many times you've mentioned chopping veggies. I feel like, you have a lot of veggies in your stuffing, and that is not true. I put sausage and bacon and pecans. I'm like, I just don't. But anyway, you just. You have a lot of veggies in your end. You just talked about chopping veggies, and I just. Just. That's just too many veggies. It's Thanksgiving and Christmas, so put a note in the comments if you're with me. It has boycott veggies.

[Melissa Krueger]

No, no, no. But these veggies have two sticks of butter.

[Courtney Docter]

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I can do that. Okay.

[Melissa Krueger]

And it's really just like, onions and celeries. I'm making it a big deal because the chocolate chopping time.

[Courtney Docter]

It's a lot of chopping. It's a lot of chopping. I don't know if anybody else noticed how much chopping Melissa was doing, but I'm probably stirring because I'm making cookies. Okay. But I would say that, you know, what I really do keep before me through the holidays is Galatians 5. 22. And I go through it slowly, so it's the fruit of the spirit. But it's like, okay, love. Am I being loving? Joy. Is there joy? Peace. Patience. That's a hard one. Patience. Kindness. That word alone is so powerful to me. Just to ask myself, am I being kind? You know, faithful? No, I think I skipped one. Right. Faithfulness. Gentleness.

[Melissa Krueger]

I always forget, like, goodness.

[Courtney Docter]

For me.

[Melissa Krueger]

Goodness. Yes, Goodness.

[Narrator/Announcer]

It's.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's what I forget.

[Courtney Docter]

Just be good to people. Do good to people. And self control. Am I right?

[Melissa Krueger]

I was gonna say you forgot self control. Is that because we were talking about stuffing and cookies. Stuffing and cookies.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Cookies.

[Courtney Docter]

And then I say self control in moderation during the holiday.

[Melissa Krueger]

Because the cookies need to be apart.

[Courtney Docter]

The cookies need to. Oh. Talking about expectations. So last year, my youngest daughter had set out to make Christmas cookies with her five or her four nephews and her one niece, who are still pretty little. And so she made, I don't know, like, tripled or quadrupled the recipe. And I mean, before those things were even, like, going in the oven. So the decoration hasn't even happened yet. She's like, can anybody come help me with this? Because the expectation was it was just gonna be idyllic, and the five little kids were gonna just be participatory, and it was going to be this wonderful thing. And she was exhausted at the end of it. I mean, exhausted. She's like, I am never doing that again. I'm like, I know It's a lot. But her expectations in reality were very, very, very different.

[Melissa Krueger]

So, Courtney, I love. I think Galatians 5. 22 would be great for anyone. You know, if you want to print out something to put on your fridge or to put wherever in your house, maybe by your sink, wherever you're going to be, that might just be a good reminder. We also have something I'm really excited about. Our team helped us with this. It's just a printable PDF that I think it's. It's so well done. It asks some questions, it gives some. It says feast with. On the word, draw near in prayer, express gratitude, offer worship, serve others. It actually gives some helpful tips to set your mind on things above. Yeah. And I'm always struck by how many scriptures talk about our mind. Right. Consider, think upon these things, prepare your mind for action. And I think that this is just such a great printable that you can print out. Maybe do it in the next week to just prepare your minds as you. As you head into a holiday that will in some ways disappoint at some point and hopefully that will allow. Even when it disappoints, this is what I even think sometimes about my own struggles with sin and things like that. It does turn our eyes back to Jesus and say thank you. That, yeah, this feast will disappoint. But one day, one day we're gonna be in the new heavens and the new earth and we are gonna feast. And there will be no sighing, no sadness, no sorrow. And our hearts are rightly longing for that. And so that's what we're looking forward to. Okay, well, so we always end on a fun. On a fun question or something. And I love this one because the gift of all gifts is about gift giving and why we give gifts at Christmas. So let me ask you this. What's your favorite memory of giving someone else a gift on Christmas? What did you love giving?

[Courtney Docter]

I just love giving gifts. Like, I can hardly wait. And I love the ones that were not on their list, but I know they're gonna kind of be like a hit, so. But last Christmas, my four little grandsons are completely into Spider man, all of them. So I saw on Instagram these blankets that you can buy that puts their face on a different, like, Spidey pose, you know? So I did. I did different ones for each of them where they're like, flying through the air, but it's their face and Spider Man's body. I mean, I could hardly wait for them to open them. But I'm Also the one that I'm one daughter and I are the first ones up 5:30 on Christmas morning. We are like, when is everybody else going to get up? I mean, I like, I love it so much. I love getting gifts as much as I love giving gifts. So I'm still like, the whole thing is still very, very fun for me. What about you?

[Melissa Krueger]

Okay, I'm actually going to share. Not I love gift giving and I really love giving good gifts, but the one I remember that was like the winner gift one year was one that Emma, my daughter, got for John. And it was one of those times I was like, that was just the best gift. So my son, he loves building rockets. He's an aerospace major. You know, he, this, all. This all started when he watched Apollo 13 and October sky, both movies. I recommend they're so fun to watch, you know, together over the holidays if you're looking for something to watch. They're both really fun. And she wrote Jim Lovell, I think. Was he on Apollo 13? I think so. I may have my facts wrong. She wrote his wife and said, could you get him to sign this letter for my brother? And he has this letter that he wrote talking about, you know, his love of space and all of this stuff. And it's signed by him and it was just like the winner gift. And I was like, that was a great idea. That's so cool.

[Courtney Docter]

That's so cool.

[Melissa Krueger]

And to see your kids. Like, she was so excited to give it to him. She couldn't wait to give him. So anyway, it was just really fun. Okay, friends, we hope that you have enjoyed this bonus episode of the Deep Dish from the Gospel Coalition. One thing, if you want to give us a gift this Christmas, one of the things you can do is actually go over to Apple Podcast and give us a review. It helps other people find this podcast when you do that. And so it just people who maybe have never listened to even a Christian podcast, it might draw them in. So that is a big help for us if you would go and do that. But we just hope that whatever you're going into this holidays, that Jesus will be the focus, that he will be what makes your heart thankful. And we wish you all very happy Thanksgiving and a Merry Christmas. Hey, friends, it's Melissa Krueger here and I'm so excited that you're listening to the Deep Dish. Want to stay connected and get even more resources for growing in your faith. We've got a new newsletter for you and we're so excited about it. When you subscribe you'll get discussion questions for the Deep Dish episodes, memory Verses, updates on what's happening with women's initiatives, as well as some of our favorite staff picks. And these are really fun. So head over to tgc.org women and sign up today. We can't wait to connect with you again. That's TGC.org women.