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The Deep Dish
Choosing Contentment
00:41:06
Courtney Doctor talks with Melissa Kruger and Elizabeth Woodson about the true meaning of contentment and how to find it.
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- [00:00]
Melissa Krueger
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- [01:49]
Elizabeth Woodson
Has some layers to it. God is good and it all work out. It's like some stuff is just really hard and sad. Part of our processing sometimes is a grieving of what we thought things would be. And so to me, choosing contentment is first choosing to acknowledge what the situation really is.
- [02:11]
Unknown Host
Welcome to the Deep Dish, a podcast where we love having deep conversations about deep truths. I am again joined by my co host Melissa Krueger and we are delighted to be joined by our friend and partner in ministry, Elizabeth Woodson and the whole conversation today. Contentment is really something that both of you have thought about, you've written about.
- [02:34]
Unknown Guest
So Elizabeth, we've been meaning to talk.
- [02:36]
Unknown Host
To you about because we're not sure if you understand.
- [02:40]
Unknown Guest
I'm here to learn right it is.
- [02:42]
Elizabeth Woodson
It is.
- [02:44]
Unknown Host
I am here to learn. Disciple me for the next 30 to 40 minutes. Well, Elizabeth is the founder of the Woodson Institute. She is also the author of Embrace youe Life, how to Find Joy when the Life youe have is not the Life you Hoped for, which is exactly on topic, but among other books. One we love to talk about is From Beginning to Forever a Bible study on the meta narrative of Scripture. And it's beautiful, but we really are glad you're here. And I'm glad that both of you have thought long and hard and I really am here. Disciple me. Disciple me. Friends, in this, I want to grow in contentment. I mean, it are you.
- [03:22]
Unknown Guest
Is content about.
- [03:24]
Unknown Host
I'm discontent about my contentment.
- [03:26]
Unknown Guest
I feel that way too.
- [03:27]
Unknown Host
Exactly. It's like, you know, if you ever are actually humble, then you're proud of your humility. Well, this is kind of that same thing. I'm like, discontent in my lack, in my discontentment. I want to be more content. But it's such a beautiful contentment. I actually have always thought that contentment is in some ways the pinnacle of kind of Christian virtue, because so much is wrapped up in it. Right. Trust and faith. Anyway, so let's just start by defining what do we even mean when we say contentment? What does it mean and what doesn't it mean?
- [04:00]
Elizabeth Woodson
I would say I like to keep things simple. And because our contentment is rooted in God, it's a belief that what God has given me is enough. It doesn't mean that. Cause sometimes contentment can. It ranges from just simple things versus man. I'm holding a season that's just really hard. So it doesn't mean that everything's okay or that the bad things aren't bad or the hard things aren't hard. But if I have God, what he's given me in this moment is enough. And there's goodness and there's joy and blessing that can be found here. But that can be different, difficult. Now we're gonna talk about that. Yeah. But that's probably what I would say.
- [04:34]
Unknown Guest
That's good. That's good. I always like to say it's an inward trust, not because of external circumstances. It's an inward trust that works externally in the ability to bear fruit. Love, joy, peace, pace, Pace. That's not one of them. Patience, kindness, all of them, whatever. But it's that it's an inward disposition that works out. Whereas I think we tend to flip it. We tend to think it's outward.
- [05:07]
Unknown Host
When the circumstances all align, then and off we go inward. This thing that is contentment that we. And Paul is so clear, right. That the external circumstances. I mean, his list of when he says, I have learned to be content in all things, it's not like he.
- [05:24]
Unknown Guest
Was on the beach.
- [05:25]
Unknown Host
I learned to be content. Yeah. On. On vacation. I learned to be content when I get my new car, when I, you know, it's not. It's through really hard. Through really hard things. And so what. What role does. You know, like, we talk about choosing joy or choose, but I think choosing contentment. So how do you choose contentment? I mean, the subtitle of your book, Elizabeth, is that sort of that whole thing, like, how to be content when the circumstances are not what you were hoping for?
- [05:55]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yeah, I think choosing contentment really is. Has some layers to it, because first you have to deal with what you don't have. And I think sometimes we can just, like, stuff it down or feel like I just have to, like, kind of just gloss it over or God is good and it all worked out. It's like some stuff is just really hard and sad. And so, like, I believe part of our processing sometimes is a grieving of what we thought things would be. And I think that that's honest to our humanity, honest to the emotions God had given us. And so to me, choosing contentment is first choosing to acknowledge what the situation really is.
- [06:30]
Unknown Host
Okay, so it's not denial.
- [06:31]
Elizabeth Woodson
It's not denial.
- [06:32]
Unknown Guest
Got it.
- [06:33]
Elizabeth Woodson
But it also is, who is God in the midst of my situation? And so to me, there is an aspect of remembrance that comes with contentment. Because my ability to move forward in this situation, in kind of this settled place, is based upon who God has been in the past to me, and like, seasons of disappointment, we can be really quick to forget that this one thing does not characterize the entirety of my life. Like, this one thing does not prevent God from doing things that are beyond my imagination. But we can just kind of get into that really isolated place in our hearts and minds. And so it's like, who is God? What has he done? What will he do? And it is this perspective of, like, for us to be believers is to acknowledge that things in this world will not always be easy, but we have the Lord. And so I think it is a wrestling because you have to really deal with, oh, maybe I don't believe that God is enough.
- [07:30]
Unknown Host
Right?
- [07:31]
Elizabeth Woodson
And maybe I don't love him as much as I thought I did. And maybe I don't just take joy and intimacy with him, but I believe it's like as you walk down the pathway and through that door, you come to a really beautiful place. But it takes to me work to get there. You just don't wake up content.
- [07:45]
Unknown Guest
That's right. Well, I like that Paul says when he learned it.
- [07:48]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yeah.
- [07:48]
Unknown Guest
So that's very hopeful.
- [07:50]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yeah.
- [07:50]
Unknown Guest
It didn't descend one day. But I always. I like what you were saying because I always say present contentment is rooted in a past certainty and a future hope. Yeah. Because the past certainty is.
- [08:02]
Unknown Host
Say that again.
- [08:03]
Unknown Guest
So present contentment is turning my mind and rooting it in a past certainty and a future hope, which that past certainty is. Christ rescued and redeemed my soul. And that can never be taken.
- [08:17]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yeah.
- [08:17]
Unknown Guest
No matter what, you know, everything else can go away. So even when, you know, always think about Jesus, the disciples come back rejoicing. The 72 go out, they're doing all these amazing things. The demons are submitting to them. All this stuff's happening. And he's like, don't rejoice in this. Rejoice that your names are written in the book of life. That's the one thing that can never be taken from us. And then the future hope is actually a new world's coming. So like you were saying, we don't get it all here. And I think that's just hard to keep remembering because I want it all here.
- [08:50]
Elizabeth Woodson
Oh, yes.
- [08:50]
Unknown Guest
You know, and it's like, it looks like all these other people are getting it all here and it's just a false.
- [08:56]
Unknown Host
Well, we're gonna get there because that's that. That's that comparison. But before we go there, I really do wanna go back because, Elizabeth, you've said two things. You've said, it's the. It's the realization that God is enough. But you started off by saying it's the realization that what God has given is enough. And I think that for a lot of live in that place of being like, well, I know God is enough. Right. I know God is enough. But is what he's given enough? Is it. I think that can be that. You know, that place of real wrestling. And I'd love to really put some feet on this and talk about specific things that both what he's given and what he's withheld. And I've shared this so many times, but when I wrote the Bible study on Romans I, it was Romans 8, 32. I'd never thought much about it before, but where, you know, Paul says that he who gave us his own son, how will he not also withhold him graciously give us all things. And it's that idea of if we need it, he will give it. And so that to me, becomes the place of present contentment rooted in the nature and character of God. But I do think it's that wrestling through that. I know God is enough. Most of our listeners probably know that God is enough. But it's then bringing it down to. And what he's given and what he's withheld are enough. So let's talk about some places in life that we've actually had to, like, press into that. I mean, there are things that I have prayed for for a long time that it does not seem like the Lord is doing. And so how do I find contentment in those places?
- [10:32]
Elizabeth Woodson
I think the easiest one for me to tag onto is just my singleness. So I tell people I'm a joyful single. I believe God has given me a lot. But I know for a lot of people that's a pain that I prayed. I did all the things the church told me to do. I served in every ministry. You know, I saved myself. You know, I didn't do all the crazy things that the people are doing. And they got married, and I didn't get married. So I think it's also like I checked all the boxes, and people who didn't check the boxes got what I wanted, and I still don't have it. And so to me, it is like, how do I wrestle with what the Lord has withheld, that his good plan for me does not include this thing? And so I think that there's some intentionality around, like, how do I view the goodness that's present in my single season, the things I'm able to do that I wouldn't be able to do if I was married and had children. I'm single, never married, with no children. And so there's this aspect of gratitude, but there also is aspect of wrestling with God's sovereignty. So I think about. I think it's Psalm 16, 6, that the boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places. And I have a delightful inheritance. And so it is that that we truly believe the Scriptures. Cause I think we might believe, we think God is enough and have this belief that what he's given me isn't enough. But I think you can't have that separation.
- [11:54]
Unknown Guest
Yes.
- [11:54]
Elizabeth Woodson
Like if you don't think what he's giving you is enough, then He Himself is not enough for you.
- [11:59]
Unknown Host
Exactly. That whole, that Psalm 16 where the boundary lines have fallen for me. What I realized was David was saying in that when, you know, if you've ever been to Israel, the land is not the same. Northern Israel is lush, it is green, There are rivers, there are waterfalls, there are. And southern Israel is dry and arid, and it is a desert. And David was in southern Israel. But his boundary line, he's talking about the boundary lines of the land, right? Those are the boundary lines. And yet he's saying, I am content in that. And so I look at the boundary lines in my life and I remember thinking, you know, I have boundary lines of my intellect. I hit against it, right. I like, like, oh, I'm not smart enough to do that. Or I have boundary lines of finances or energy or health or time or whatever it is. And so to. To press into that like these. Whatever the boundary line is. And I loved how you talked specifically about, you know, you were hoping for a spouse. And I know our listeners there are. I mean, they. Maybe they're hoping for a spouse, maybe they're hoping for a child, maybe they're hoping for more children, maybe they're hoping for more followers. Yeah, I mean, but like, you know, maybe they're hoping for a book contract, maybe they're hoping for a career, maybe they're. Who knows? But there are. All of us go through that most of our lives, that there is a thing that we want, that God. But the other thing I was struck with is there are ways we can make those happen. So what's the difference between resting and trusting, holding all the emotions that you all have talked about and still choosing the contentment?
- [13:38]
Elizabeth Woodson
I mean, I think it is like, you can. You can go out and I'll go back to the singleness example because it just is so clear, I think, for people. You can go out and find somebody. Exactly, you can find somebody. But it is. You get into that place, and I think anybody who's dated and you've just been with someone, you know, you don't need to be with them. It's all the things that are attached to that. And so what we do is we see kind of the good side of having what we want, and we don't see the shadow side of it. And so now you're in this place, you're not supposed to be here. You're with someone you don't need to be with. And how does that relationship affect you, affect your relationship with the Lord? You know, it's just all of these consequences for stepping outside the boundary line. And it is. It's like, I don't want the stuff that comes with sometimes walking in disobedience to what God has for me, and that I would stay within the place. But it is. I think you have to wrestle with your sadness.
- [14:33]
Unknown Guest
Yes.
- [14:33]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yes, you have to.
- [14:35]
Unknown Guest
Because I would say, here's the reality. The discontentment follows you to the next season.
- [14:39]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yes.
- [14:40]
Unknown Guest
Because how I was going to answer your question was actually, I found myself getting what I desperately wanted. I had wanted a husband and the children, and I got good ones.
- [14:50]
Unknown Host
Yes, you did.
- [14:51]
Unknown Guest
Yes, you did. And. But then I can remember those little years with kids, looking at my girlfriends and being like, this was the dream.
- [15:00]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yeah.
- [15:00]
Unknown Guest
What is this?
- [15:01]
Unknown Host
That's what I was going to ask you next is like, what about when you get it? And then all of a sudden you don't value it anymore?
- [15:07]
Unknown Guest
So discontentment is ultimately a state of our hearts, not our outward circumstances. So I'm gonna. Yeah, we've all experienced this, right? What did you want at 16? Maybe the car, maybe the license. Guess what? You probably got them. And then you. Oh, then if I can just get into a good college. You get into the college or whatever. You go to college. Oh, if I can just get a good job. Okay, you get the job.
- [15:29]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [15:30]
Unknown Guest
They're like, this job is terrible. I want to go back to college or whatever. You know, we spend our life. So for me, it was recognizing I have a heart problem, not a circumstance problem, that made me have this battle with contentment. Because it was just like, I'm living the life I thought I wanted, and it's not enough. And I think that's why we see people who maybe get to the pinnacle of success. They turn to drugs and alcohol and all things because they get it and it wasn't enough.
- [16:01]
Elizabeth Woodson
And I think what we are looking for is perfection. Like, we're like, oh, this will be perfect. Like, there'll be nothing wrong in this place. And so I'm trying to get here and get here and get here. And you're like, oh, it doesn't do it. Oh, it doesn't do it. Oh, there's always something missing. And I think it's like, once you get your head wrapped around, no matter what the season is, there will always be something missing. Then it begins this perspective shift of like, oh, well, how can I have eyes to see what's here and be better appreciative because it will never be enough. That's the hustle you think? Yeah, it'll bring that.
- [16:33]
Unknown Host
What does that teach us about where we are in redemptive history? Right?
- [16:36]
Unknown Guest
What.
- [16:37]
Unknown Host
What does that mean? I mean, I think C.S. lewis says something about, you know, if our hearts are longing for something else. Right. If we're longing for another world, maybe it's because that's what we were created for. So how does that. How do we know that one day everything we long for.
- [16:49]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yeah.
- [16:49]
Unknown Host
Where you were talking about the future hope, you've written about this.
- [16:52]
Elizabeth Woodson
But.
- [16:53]
Unknown Host
But how do we help our listeners understand this discrepancy between their longings now lack of joy and satisfaction when they get them, and then what we are ultimately where we are setting our future hope.
- [17:10]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yeah. I mean, the word I love to use is shalom, because I think it encompasses so much. It's like. It's beyond just our English understanding of peace. Like, it's this wholeness. Like, everything is right with the world. Everything's right with me, the people around me. It's this really beautiful reality I think we see present in the Genesis 1 and 2 narrative. And then through Scripture, we see how sin, like, tries to destroy and corrupt and pull away from that. But what we see in revelation is that he recreates the paradise that he created in the beginning. And so the shalom that we have in part because of Christ, that we get it because we have fellowship with him, we do not have it in full. Like our. You're meant to be the. Already not yet, I think is a phrase, the real churchy seminarian phrase I think of. But it is. It's like. Like there's a shalom that's coming where this hole that I feel will be filled because all that's wrong with the world will be made right when God comes and he dwells with humanity. And so this longing I have for perfection is really a longing for what is coming. And so it's like, put the longing in the right place.
- [18:18]
Unknown Host
I love that.
- [18:19]
Unknown Guest
And I think that's important to say, because having desires is not wrong. Yes, desires can source.
- [18:27]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [18:27]
Unknown Guest
And those are wrong. But having desires is a normal part of living in a broken world. Like, we are in the. We're in the. In that place where it hasn't yet been changed. So the fact that we have desires, you know, even for our own life. I should be. There are. Right. Even discontents. But my lack of holiness is a place to be discontent. Like I shouldn't be. Okay. You know, it's not. It's not saying, oh, just be totally okay with who you are. No, I've got stuff that I really want.
- [18:57]
Unknown Host
You should desire.
- [18:58]
Unknown Guest
Yes.
- [18:58]
Unknown Host
And they need to be rightly oriented. Okay, well, speaking of desire, so what does Psalm 37 have to say about that? How does this play into it? So trust in the Lord and do good, dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness. Delight yourself in the Lord, and if you do this, you delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your hearts. I mean, what is God promising there? What's happening in that? Because have you delighted yourself in the Lord? Yeah. Has he given you every desire of your heart? No. So what is that, what is that verse? Promising, telling?
- [19:32]
Unknown Guest
I mean, is your beach vacation or is your beach house waiting for you right now? Yeah, I mean, that's what I think. That's how it can be really misapplied. Whereas I do think there's something about when we're delighting in the Lord, there is this. Something changes in us and our desires do change. And I don't even mean that. And that, that sounds like, oh, you're just going to lower your desires. I actually think they get bigger. Yeah. There's a bigger desire I'm longing for. So I never want to say in this contentment game, we're squelching desire.
- [20:07]
Unknown Host
Right.
- [20:08]
Unknown Guest
I'm just saying we're learning to put it on the right and better things. I think we're like kids, you know, if you put before kids, if you went, you remember those bubble machines with a big plastic, you know, ring pops, you know, that they could get out of the little machines. I'm not explaining this well.
- [20:24]
Elizabeth Woodson
We understand. We're with you.
- [20:26]
Unknown Host
I'm with you. I'm not picturing it, but I'm with you.
- [20:28]
Unknown Guest
Ring pops, you know, like a lollipop, a ring cob. You used to put a quarter in and get them out of the gumball machine thing.
- [20:35]
Unknown Host
I didn't know that.
- [20:36]
Unknown Guest
I didn't know that. Fake ones, whatever.
- [20:38]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [20:38]
Unknown Guest
And you put a real diamond, what's it. What's a five year old gonna pick?
- [20:41]
Unknown Host
The ring pop.
- [20:43]
Unknown Guest
The ring pop. They're gonna be like, that diamond's not worth anything.
- [20:46]
Unknown Host
Right.
- [20:47]
Unknown Guest
Because they don't even know what they don't know.
- [20:49]
Unknown Host
Right.
- [20:50]
Unknown Guest
And I think as we start delighting in the Lord, we start desiring the real gem, you know, not the fake stuff.
- [20:58]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yeah. I think this is probably one of the reasons I love biblical theology so much, is because it gives you a comprehensive understanding of what God is doing throughout the text. And so it's like, how is God transforming his people of how sin has deformed us and we're being reformed. And so like when you say, my Desires are being formed ultimately to reflect the desires of the Lord. That's the better place for me to rest in. And so it is. It's like that. And it is that, oh, we would. Delighting in God means what to me, that's the connection point, that whatever you would want from me in this world is what I want. And so you are going to give that to me because I'm aligning myself to you. And again, that's a process because I think there's just a reality and humanity to the lack and the comparison. And we see other like all those things. But it is that the better thing is to be like Christ. That's the goal. That's the better thing. That's the place. And that is what God is doing. And so I think, I mean, I've just heard some really wonky. My favorite word.
- [22:01]
Unknown Guest
I love.
- [22:01]
Unknown Host
That's one of my favorite words too. Wonky all the time.
- [22:04]
Elizabeth Woodson
Wonky interpretations of that text.
- [22:06]
Unknown Host
Wonky theology.
- [22:07]
Elizabeth Woodson
It's a wonky theology and it just is. Man, we make God transactions.
- [22:12]
Melissa Krueger
Yes.
- [22:12]
Elizabeth Woodson
That if I just do this, you'll give me what I want. And God is not transactional like there. The guarantee we have is that we have him. And I think what I will say, contentment requires maturity in your faith.
- [22:26]
Unknown Guest
Yeah. He loves us too much to be transactional.
- [22:28]
Elizabeth Woodson
Right.
- [22:29]
Unknown Guest
I mean, because he actually knows what the better portion is. And I always like to say too, it's going to be different for you and for me and for you. Because I think. You think I'll have. Have her portion. Yeah, exactly. But you know what? You're a completely different set of clay than I am. Yeah. And so the way he's molding and shaping you and it's totally different. Like what my clay needs is what he's giving.
- [22:55]
Unknown Host
Right. Well, right in Psalm 16, right before he says, the lines have fallen for me in pleasant places, he says, the Lord is my portion. We are so grateful for our sponsor, Crossway. They produce such incredible resources for the church. And one of the ones that I have so greatly enjoyed has been New Morning Mercies, which is a daily gospel devotional written by Paul Tripp. And now they have come out with a large print edition, which, truth be told, is becoming more and more precious to me. Now, I will say I gave the regular print edition to my son for Christmas this year because it is so. It's just so typical Paul Tripp. It's so engaging. It's so gospel centered. Every day is. Is just inviting you to understand how the gospel applies to your life.
- [23:43]
Unknown Guest
This devotional really is great. We've used it in our family. We've used it even for family devotion sometimes. There are over a million copies sold. It's a very just, well received devotional and it really will encourage your heart. Paul's words are just always encouraging, always Bible saturated. And it's a great devotional.
- [24:04]
Unknown Host
So whether you need the large print edition or the regular print edition, you can pick up your copy of New Morning Mercies, a daily gospel devotional, wherever books are sold or visit Crossway.org now. If you want 30% off, you can go to Crossway.org/ and sign up for a Crossway+ account. So the idea that our portion, right. And a portion is like, it's not all of it. It's just part of what's given. It's not the whole thing. You know, if I'm serving mashed potatoes and that Thanksgiving, I have a whole bowl of them. But I give you a portion, right? No, that's not my portion. My portion is part of that.
- [24:38]
Elizabeth Woodson
Right.
- [24:38]
Unknown Host
But what David's saying is like, the Lord is my portion and that's enough. And then the lines have fallen for me, like, I can be content in that and the desires. I think what you were saying, Elizabeth, is so helpful because it's, it's that. And, and you were saying, like, we don't desire enough, they're not big enough. And I think that's so true because what is easier for the Lord, like to give us the thing we think we want or to conform us to the image of Christ? I mean, he could do any of the things I, you know, I used to say when I was young, all I want is a washer and dryer in my house and a garage, you know, well, when did I start wanting so much more? You know, because he's like those, those things are easy for me. But conforming you to the image of my son, that's going to take some time, like. And it is sometimes in the things that he doesn't give. But both of you just mentioned comparison. And so there's a saying that comparison is the thief of joy, certainly the thief of the enemy of contentment. And so in what ways do does comparison really threaten contentment, peace, joy, shalom? I mean, it threatens all of it. In what ways and how do we do it?
- [25:50]
Elizabeth Woodson
Yeah, I mean, we, we live in a moment where you can see what other people have regularly. Yeah. What is hard about our moment is that what people. You think they have.
- [26:02]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [26:03]
Elizabeth Woodson
Is not always Real.
- [26:05]
Unknown Guest
You see the corner of their kitchen.
- [26:06]
Elizabeth Woodson
Corner of the kitchen. You don't see all the trash behind the camera.
- [26:09]
Unknown Host
All good stuff on Instagram. And how much time does it take to even set up the shot? And I'm not trying to curate a false image. It just, it just takes off, you know, it's. There's some thought. I mean, it's not real life. It's not like you actually just walked into my house.
- [26:24]
Elizabeth Woodson
Exactly.
- [26:24]
Unknown Guest
Yeah.
- [26:25]
Elizabeth Woodson
And so we project this. Oh, your life will be happy and perfect, my well curated family. And we don't know that y'all were just arguing. You're not. The husband and wife aren't sleeping in the same house. Like, you know, we don't know any of the details.
- [26:38]
Unknown Host
You don't know that I have on pajama pants under my cute sweater because you're only seeing your waist down. Exactly.
- [26:43]
Elizabeth Woodson
You don't know. And so I think, I think the element of comparison is heightened because we now get standards for reality that aren't reality. But to me, it's like we get. Our eyes are so taken in by what everybody else has, we become blind to what we have. And again, I think it is the standard becomes, let me achieve this thing instead of let me achieve maturity in Christ, or not even achieve, let me allow God to transform me, because that's the better thing. Our eyes are turned away to lesser things. And as we consume lesser things more, we start to believe those lesser things are the better thing.
- [27:20]
Unknown Guest
Yeah. One day we had all the kids at the park. I was with some mom friends. We're all at the park and the moms are sitting over on the park benches trying to have a conversation. The kids, it's a fenced in park. That's why we liked it. There's a big field outside the fence, but it was right by a big road. So the little kids are fine playing. The bigger kids, you know, maybe eight, nine, come and say, hey, can we play outside of the fence? Well, the moms don't look at each other. We know if we left the 8 and 9 year olds, the 2 and 3 year olds gonna lose their minds. So we were like. And we truthfully wanted to have a conversation. So we were like, no, you have to stay inside the fence. And the inside, the sense. Let me just say there are slides, there are monkey bars, there's a sandbox, there's all the stuff. Stuff. Well, I looked up about five minutes later, five of those older kids are standing by the fence staring at the field.
- [28:11]
Unknown Host
Because you just told Them. No. Yeah.
- [28:13]
Unknown Guest
And so they were looking at what they couldn't have rather than just enjoy what they've been given. And so there is always this, like, I think comparison blinds us to what we have because we're so busy at looking at what we don't have. And. And here. Here's one. I mean, the cure is obviously to root ourselves in Christ and really. But I think another cure is actually to live in real community with real people. We've all done women's ministry in the local church. That changed my vision dramatically. I can remember walking into church, and this is when social media became a bomb for me. I'm like, well, I'm glad her life looks okay because everyone else in this congregation has fallen apart, and I'm exhausted. I'm crying for her over that circumstance. I'd walk into church and I'd feel this huge burden because I knew people's real stories, and I. I didn't want her life or her life or her, you know, and then everybody else's. I was like, well, who knows what's going on there? It gave me eyes to see when I lived in real community. And being friends on an app is not real community.
- [29:20]
Unknown Host
No. Well, and. And you don't see it all. Just back to that. That original point. You just don't know what's actually going on. And so we are comparing ourselves, we're comparing our whole lives to a very truncated version of someone else's, and it's never, never going to match up.
- [29:38]
Unknown Guest
Or.
- [29:39]
Unknown Host
I know at one point my daughter, when she was younger, said she was kind of bemoaning the fact that she said, you know, I'm not. I don't have this gift that the oldest has. I don't have this gift that the second has, and I don't have this gift that the youngest has. And I said, well, first of all, you are highlighting their longest gifts, you know, and so. Right. And nobody's going to have all the gifts. And so even that idea that wrestling with our places of discontentment pushes us into our need for each other and our places in the local body. And so, you know, we've talked about this before. I think all of us have, where our friends who don't have children, how the body of Christ becomes the. You know, they're given children. Right? And we. Those that don't have a mother are given mothers. Those who don't have siblings are given siblings. But it's in the context of the local church. And so sometimes we want something, we desire something, and we don't realize that actually the Lord has already provided some of those things in the context of community. It's just receiving that his answer looks a little bit different than the way we wanted him to answer.
- [30:47]
Unknown Guest
And I like what you just said about your child. You know, looking at the other ones, it really is that picture of the body where the hand says to the foot, maybe I'm not needed.
- [30:56]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [30:56]
Unknown Guest
Because we can actually become so discontent, we tend to think about what we might gain in the world. I think a lot of people just think it's money, possessions, maybe situational things, but it can even be in the church, giftedness and things like, why can't I sing like her? Because I. I sure enough cannot sing like her, you know? Well, I mean, you can probably sing.
- [31:17]
Unknown Host
You can probably sing like me, and nobody wants to sing like me.
- [31:22]
Unknown Guest
Exactly, exactly. It's like I can look at other people's callings or giftedness or even their capacity.
- [31:30]
Unknown Host
Yes.
- [31:30]
Unknown Guest
And I could be like, how are they doing all that?
- [31:32]
Unknown Host
We literally can envy anything.
- [31:35]
Unknown Guest
Yes.
- [31:35]
Unknown Host
I mean, we really can.
- [31:37]
Elizabeth Woodson
And I do. I just think we. You never see the full story. So, like, even if you see someone producing so much, what's that costing their family? What's that costing their mental health? You know, that you see someone who has this amazing gift that feels like all of what it takes for them to get up on that stage and do what they do. Like, I just think about people, celebrity culture that we have, and we're like, oh, that's the goal. And you learn about people's lives who have the highest level of celebrity, and they're miserable.
- [32:05]
Unknown Host
They're miserable.
- [32:06]
Elizabeth Woodson
And so just. It's like there's always this cost and benefit, and we never look at the cost, we always look at the benefits. And it's like they always go together and just perspective about God being enough. Like, he's gonna give me what I can handle. He's gonna give me what I can thrive in and let me trust him to be the one that dishes it out and not me to go get something that then I get there. Because sometimes we get there and we're like, oh, this isn't. This isn't what I thought. Like, oh, oh. And I miss out on the benefits I had in the previous season in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [32:36]
Unknown Guest
One. One quote that I can't remember who I think it was. Thomas Watson. So old. Old guy, been gone a long time. But he said, discontentment is the echo of unbelief. And I picture standing on a mountain. Yeah. Like the echo back, it's just the echo of unbelief in my life. It's not about my circumstances. And I think for me, owning that has been the, the first step in finding it. Like just owning, okay, I have a heart circumstantial problem that needs changing, not an outward. Because I think, and I still am tempted to do this a lot of my life was, if I can just get the outward sorted, I'm going to fight there. Whereas now I actually know the battle is between my unbelieving heart. Will I believe that he has ordained all my days and that he means good for me?
- [33:33]
Unknown Host
Yeah, it's always an issue of belief. We either don't believe that God is good or we don't believe that he is able. He either can't do it or he won't do it. He is not for me. And so I need to go do this for myself or I need to manifest this. I've got to make it happen. Right. I mean, it's a lack of true belief in God, but okay, back to the comparison thing. And then we're going to move on off of that. But I was just reminded of even Jesus talking to Peter at the end of John's gospel when you know, Peter is like, turns around, sees John, he's like, well, what about him? Well, what about him? Right? Why, what are you gonna do with him? Are you gonna do anything really great and fun with him? Like, why, are you, are you gonna bless him? Like, you know, wait a minute, you know, and, and Jesus is like, you know, if I want him to, and then fill in the blank if I want him to write a ton of books, if I want him to have this incredible family, if I, if I want him to suffer, like what, whatever it is, he's like, what is that to you? As for you, Peter, follow me. Like that is the call. And so you were even saying like, our stories are all different. He writes them perfectly according to what we need. Our suffering is different, our sin struggles are different, our joys are different. Our gifts are like all of it. And so, so contentment is ultimately rooted in the belief that God is good, wise, able, sovereign. He's working these. And that his word is true.
- [35:06]
Unknown Guest
Yeah.
- [35:07]
Unknown Host
That he is actually working all these things together.
- [35:09]
Unknown Guest
Those passages are always the things that make me believe the word is true.
- [35:13]
Unknown Host
Right. They're so real. They're so.
- [35:15]
Elizabeth Woodson
What does that to do with you?
- [35:16]
Unknown Guest
Right?
- [35:18]
Unknown Host
And John's so funny. He's like, I got there first, first. And then he's like, and then Peter said this really stupid thing I'm gonna put, oh, he is. John is funny with Peter, he's like, I'm just gonna kind of subtly throw you under the bus just a little.
- [35:28]
Unknown Guest
Bit and be the disciple to Jesus loves.
- [35:30]
Unknown Host
And then I'm gonna tell you, just.
- [35:32]
Elizabeth Woodson
In case you wonder, it is me.
- [35:33]
Unknown Host
I am the one that Jesus loved. And by the way, I got to the gym, I'm the fastest, youngest, cutest. And. And then Peter's kind of, you know. No, it's fantastic, though. I mean, it's that. But we see comparison. We see how Jesus deals with it. Like, why are you worried about that person? This is between the two of us. And I am doing work. So what are some ways if. I mean, we've just sort of keep saying in different ways that contentment is this beautiful mark of spiritual maturity. It's rooted in deep faith and trust in God and what he's done and what he's going to do and what he's doing. So how do we grow in that? How do we grow in this? I think really key aspect of our spiritual maturity.
- [36:21]
Elizabeth Woodson
I would say. And it's everybody's. Like, the phrase I use is it's the gap between the life you have and the life you want. Everybody's gap isn't something sad and heavy, but some people, it really is. And so I think you have to. To me, the. The. The. The model we see in Scripture is you need to be a person who limits. Like, you need to grieve. You need to cry out to the Lord. How long, O Lord? Psalm, I love Jesus, but I can't remember that Bible.
- [36:51]
Unknown Host
It's in the Psalms.
- [36:52]
Elizabeth Woodson
It's in the psalms, maybe Psalm 13, I don't know. But I love Jesus. And really, you see this example? 40% of the Psalms are Psalms of lament. That is the model for us. Life does not go the way we want it to. And we're crying out to God. Not because I'm just venting, because I actually believe we can do something. And so I believe it's this. If the Holy Spirit meets us there and he does something. But you cannot believe that God is enough and that what he's gonna give me is where I need to be. If you don't deal with what you really feel. And I think that that place opens you up for this journey of healing and entering into, okay, God, I'm trusting you, and I'm gonna walk in this place of contentment. But for me, the first step is how do I call A thing. A thing. And do it before the Lord and watch him change my heart.
- [37:38]
Unknown Host
So let me ask you, do you think those are sequential things or do you think they happen, they coexist? Like, do we have to, you know, can we lament at the same time? Can we be angry and content at the same time? Or do we have to. Are we working towards contentment as we work through these emotions? And maybe it's both. And I would say it's both.
- [37:58]
Elizabeth Woodson
And I mean, I think it really just depends on you and your situation. For some people, you can, like, you are crying and walking at the same time. For other people, it is a wall.
- [38:06]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [38:06]
Elizabeth Woodson
And you have to, like, you can't get past it. You really have to wrestle with the Lord. But I do. I think it is a dynamic process where the Lord does multiple things and sometimes you come back to things. Like, it's not like it's a straight line. It is this journey that the Holy Spirit takes us on. I think it's that I'm willing to acknowledge the need and do what the Lord tells me to do in order to kind of grow up in my faith.
- [38:28]
Unknown Guest
Yeah. And I think it's a daily battle. I don't think you get. I mean, Paul does say, I've learned the secret of being content. I can plenty. And, you know, I can have plenty and in want, but I take a lot of.
- [38:44]
Unknown Host
Comfort.
- [38:45]
Unknown Guest
Yeah, comfort or encouragement.
- [38:47]
Unknown Host
Encouragement.
- [38:47]
Unknown Guest
Encouragement from the learning process. Because here's the thing. I mean, it's hard as adults because I think we really get out of the habit of learning. So we're really uncomfortable learning. You know, I mean, and I'm talking about, you know, kids are used to learning things. You know, every day they're like, yeah, I can't do that yet. Yeah, I can't do that yet. I learned to tie my shoes. I learned to brush my teeth. You know, we get real out of the habit. It. And when I've woken up and said, okay, today's circumstances will be my schoolroom for contentment. Whatever comes, this is my schoolroom to say, lord, help me be content. And that doesn't mean I won't cry. It doesn't mean I might not get upset about things. But will I believe that inner belief that it's ordained by God so I can trust him with it? Like, this is what he gave me to hold for today. Will I trust him with it? And that's a learning process. So guess what? Some days I fall off. Yeah, I'm. Yeah, like, I fall off the Bike. I'm actually not very good at it.
- [39:46]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [39:47]
Unknown Guest
Tomorrow is another day. You know, maybe tomorrow I'll trust him more. Maybe the next day after that I'm going to be a mess. And thinking my life is worse than everybody who ever lived on the planet Earth.
- [39:58]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [39:59]
Unknown Guest
And he'll rein me in. And it's this constant conversation. I think that's what you see in the Psalms, is this conversation between God's people wrestling with God over these things. Because, you know, why so downcast? All my soul. Why so down? I will put my hope in God.
- [40:15]
Unknown Host
I gotta work at it. Yeah.
- [40:17]
Unknown Guest
And that. That's holy wrestling.
- [40:19]
Unknown Host
It is.
- [40:20]
Unknown Guest
I mean, it's one thing to complain about God. It's a different thing to complain to God.
- [40:25]
Elizabeth Woodson
Right.
- [40:26]
Unknown Guest
You know, and those are totally different. You know, totally different places to be.
- [40:31]
Unknown Host
Yeah. I love this conversation because I think we can think that contentment is optional and we can maybe even prioritize some of our other feelings over this pursuit of contentment that. That, you know, I mean, because lament is good. It is good to express our anger before the Lord. Is good to express our grief and our sadness. But what we're saying is contentment is an essential part of maturity in Christ. And so it's worth wrestling out. It's worth pursuing, it's worth seeking and praying for.
- [41:04]
Unknown Guest
Here's one other thing. I think we often think about contentment. It's just for us. So we're in our purp. Personal, like, happiness. But one thing that's really convicted me is that my contentment is a witness to the watching world. Like when they say, always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that is in you. We as Christians should be the most hopeful people in the world, because we aren't. Yeah. There can be wars and rumors of wars, geopolitical things going on all over the world. Our own lives can be falling apart. But I remember Joni Eareckson taught it. I've heard her speak on this so much. She says. She calls. Calls Christians who suffer and suffer before the Lord differently.
- [41:45]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [41:45]
Unknown Guest
Yeah. And she has. She has been a witness to this. She calls them spectacles of glory. And they make the watching world pause and say, what is the hope that is in you? So, yes, I want contentment for me. I do.
- [42:01]
Unknown Host
Yeah.
- [42:01]
Unknown Guest
But I realize, oh, it actually glorifies God and speaks to the watching world about what he is doing in our lives. So that's really hopeful to me.
- [42:11]
Unknown Host
It is wonderful. Yeah. We had a woman in our church in her 80s, and you would always say, you know, how are you doing today? And she'd say, content. That was her answer. It was always her answer. And it was discipleship. Just that single answer of, so I want to grow into that woman.
- [42:25]
Unknown Guest
That's how we want to age.
- [42:27]
Unknown Host
I'm content, yeah. Content with what the Lord has given and what the Lord has withheld. I'm content. So we want to end with just a question of kind of getting to know you a little bit better. So we have said that contentment is not dependent on our circumstances. Circumstances. And yet there are places that we can go that may be geographical locations or spaces where it's just a little bit easier. I've shared that there is a lake in Missouri that I just find very peaceful. And contentment comes a little bit easier there for me. But Elizabeth, what about you? Is there a place that you find shalom? You find joy, you find content?
- [43:07]
Elizabeth Woodson
I would say it is my parents basement. It's like TVs there. It's where our family room and dining room is. It's. My parents are there. They got their two recliners. They're retired, living their best lives. And it just is like everything is right with the world. Like, I stand in a lot of places and speak before a lot of people, but there, I'm just Elizabeth there. Whatever I need. Loved unconditionally. Good seasons, hard seasons. And so it's like. Like I will find myself saying, you need to go home because you are in a place where you just need to rest in unconditional love and peace. And so that's my place of contentment.
- [43:43]
Unknown Host
Oh, that is so beautiful. And a little foretaste of glory, isn't it? Yeah, all those things. Home. We are. We are on our way home, aren't we? Well, thank you for joining us for this conversation. If this episode was encouraging or helpful to you, we would add, ask that you consider sharing it with a friend that you would like it. And leave comments. Let us know how you are pursuing contentment in all things. But join us for the next episode of the Deep Dish.
- [44:17]
Unknown Guest
Hey, friends, it's Melissa Krueger here, and I'm so excited that you're listening to the Deep Dish. Want to stay connected and get even more resources for growing in your faith? We've got a new newsletter for you, and we're so excited about it. When you subscribe, you'll get discussion questions for the Deep Dish episodes, memory verses, updates on what's happening with women's initiatives, as well as some of our favorite staff picks. And these are really fun. So head over to tgc.org women and sign up today. We can't wait to connect with you again. That's TGC.org women.