Podcast Summary: The Deep Dish – Fighting Materialism in a Materialistic World

Host: Courtney Doctor and Melissa Kruger
Guest: Jen Oshman
Date: February 5, 2026

Overview

In this episode of The Deep Dish, hosts Courtney Doctor and Melissa Kruger are joined by writer and missionary Jen Oshman for an honest, convicting, and practical conversation on the ever-present struggle with materialism. Together, they unpack its deep roots, its subtle manifestations (in both abundance and lack), and how Christian women can pursue generosity, contentment, and a truly heavenly mindset in a culture obsessed with more.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining and Recognizing Materialism

• Materialism Defined:
  Melissa: “We’re going to be talking about materialism, which is kind of just a preoccupation or an overly stressing of material things of this world, which I think we all do … It’s the world we live in.” (03:06)
• Universal Struggle:
  Jen: “None of us thinks that we’re materialistic. I mean, it’s just kind of a given … It takes a minute and maybe some prayers, some self reflection … to ask this question of ourselves and give ourselves the time to respond with truth …” (04:07)
  • The temptation to compare is heightened by constant exposure on social media.
  • The desire for "newer, better, shinier" things can serve both as comfort and as a source of self-worth.
• Two Layers—Shallow vs. Deep:
  • Shallow: Attraction to new or convenient things.
  • Deep: Shame or sense of lacking worth if one does not possess or appear to have what others do.
• Security & Savings:
  Courtney: “It’s future. It’s savings for future, like future security, future financial … I really want to put my security in savings or … to have enough to maintain everything you’re talking about or to get and to have all those things.” (07:58)

2. Materialism & Covetousness: Connection and Distinction

• Overlap and Differences:
  Jen: “Covetous obviously speaks to envy and just wanting the life that God gave somebody else and being discontent with the life that he gave us. While materialism and just a bent towards material things is putting our identity, our hope, our trust in the things that we have. So they are distinct, but they do often overlap.” (08:40) Melissa: “Covetousness is like that big umbrella … materialism … is just one more thing under the umbrella.” (09:35)
• Scriptural Wisdom:
  Melissa: Quoting Hebrews 13:15 – “Keep your life free from the love of money and be content with what you have. For he has said, ‘I will never leave you nor forsake you.’ ... He’s going to provide you with his presence, not the possessions you think you need.” (10:54)

3. Why Do We Want More? (Spiritual Diagnosis)

• Innate Desires for Good, Twisted by Sin:
  Jen: “We tend to covet or desire things that are good gifts ... We seek to fill that eternal whole with temporary things. And it just can never be filled to the brim. And so we seek more and seek more and our souls are like, it's just not enough. It doesn't feel right. I need a little bit more ... we set our sights on the temporary rather than really keeping our vision at the eternal.” (12:55)
• Jesus’s Parable of the Rich Fool:
  Courtney: “Jesus calls the man a fool for storing up his wealth and for just hoarding it ... The foolishness is not actually being wealthy ... But the man's foolish because he puts all of his hope in what he has hoarded.” (15:27–16:21)

4. Storing Up Treasure in Heaven

• How Do We Practically Do This?
  Jen: “It’s a daily discipline ... It’s going to be this minute by minute seeking of God’s help to practice this discipline ... The things aren’t wrong to have, but they cannot become our false gods ... They are means … God’s resources that we might love God and love others.” (18:25)
  • Use possessions as tools for hospitality, service, and generosity rather than self-indulgence.
• Example of Worldly vs Eternal Impact:
  Melissa: “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth ... But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven ... For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” (Matthew 6:19-21) (16:21)

5. Materialism for All: Wealthy, Poor, and the Frugal

• Not Just a Rich Person’s Problem:
  Jen: “...no matter what we have, we can always definitely want more, and we can always misplace our hope ... the health and wealth gospel ... shows the propensity for anybody in any context to go, yeah, I want more.” (21:19)
• Frugality as Materialism:
  Courtney: “So the overly frugal person, the person who really prides herself on her frugality, I think that's a form … a version and a flavor of materialism.” (24:31)
• Generosity as Antidote:
  Courtney: “I think the question has to be where is generosity in my life and what does generosity look like? ... Because I think that's the anecdote to materialism.” (24:31)
• Sacrifice and Suffering:
  Jen: “Jesus says our growth and our Christ likeness is going to come through suffering ... What if we choose inconvenience ... even chose some suffering so that we could be like Christ ... practicing Jesus is better than me having X, Y, or Z.” (27:02)

6. Stewardship vs. Ownership

• Mindset Shift:
  Melissa: “What if we actually viewed our salaries as God's provision in our life and his gift to us, not something we earn ... How do I steward it well rather than, it's my right...” (28:43)
  • Considering radical generosity, not just minimal, “checkbox” giving.

7. Friendships’ Influence on Materialism

• Community & Accountability:
  Jen: “Nothing good happens in the dark. Nothing good grows in secret. And so what if we invited other believers that we trust … Hey, come see.” (32:45)
• Learning from Others’ Generosity:
  Melissa: Shares inspiration from a couple who set a living allowance and gave away the rest. (35:07)
• Transparency and Challenge:
  Courtney: “What if I had invited somebody out and kind of laid out our financials and say, Melissa said, you know, Courtney, what if you deferred that for a year and those payments went towards something else...?” (36:35)
• Not About Guilt or Penitence:
  Jen: “The point isn’t guilt and self loathing … Christ's heart in this is that we would not settle for the lesser gifts … and we need the word of God, the spirit of God and the people of God to help us do that.” (38:56–40:49)

8. Fixing Our Eyes on Eternity

• Airport Analogy:
  Melissa: “If we saw someone in an airport unpacking ... their cappuccino maker ... we'd be like, what are you doing? You're in the airport, you're trying to get home ... that's foolish to bring all this stuff with you and care so much about it in the airport ... It’s our longing, our deep longing for home that makes us think we can make these homes our homes.” (41:30)
• Practical Steps:
  Jen: “What does it look like for me to love my neighbor as myself? ... If we view others and say they deserve what I think I deserve, that can be very, very helpful.” (42:55) Courtney: “I think most of us have such an anemic view of heaven ... Increasing your knowledge base so you can long for this thing ... Randy Alcorn's book on heaven has got to be just life changing.” (44:01)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Deep Root of Materialism:
  “...at a very deep level, subconscious, even, [I’ve] bought the lie that my worth is equal to what I possess or what I can show other people.” — Jen Oshman (06:47)
• On the Futility of Filling Eternity with Temporality:
  “We seek to fill that eternal whole with temporary things. And it just can never be filled to the brim.” — Jen Oshman (12:55)
• On Generosity as the Antidote:
  “No matter what my abundance looks like or lack thereof, is generosity a part of my life? Because I think that’s the anecdote to materialism.” — Courtney Doctor (24:31)
• On Pursuing Sacrifice, Not Comfort:
  “Can I pursue some inconvenience and some lack so that I might bless God and bless others?” — Jen Oshman (27:02)
• On the Power of Community:
  “We do it in everything. I go to the gym with friends because I wanna work out harder. So I should probably go to my bank with my friends so I can give harder.” — Jen Oshman (34:42)
• On Living with Eternity in View:
  “If we saw someone in an airport unpacking ... we'd be like, what are you doing? You're in the airport, you're trying to get home. ... It’s our longing, our deep longing for home that makes us think we can make these homes our homes.” — Melissa Kruger (41:30)
• On What Endures:
  “God invites us to use our resources to be a part of furnishing Heaven. It's all him. But he allows us to play a role in that ... He somehow lets us use what's happening in this life to build things that will last.” — Melissa Kruger (45:37)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:52] Jen Oshman introduced; hosts share apprehension about the topic
• [04:07 – 06:47] Jen gives her shallow vs. deep answer on materialism
• [08:40] Discussion on covetousness vs. materialism
• [12:55] Jen on how eternal longing leads to misplaced hope in material things
• [15:27] Parable of the rich fool and lesson on storing up for eternity
• [18:25] Using what we have for kingdom purposes; discipline of generosity
• [24:31] Courtney and Jen on materialism in both abundance and lack
• [27:02] Suffering, self-sacrifice, and Christ-likeness vs. material comfort
• [32:45] The importance of community and accountability in giving
• [36:35] Openness about financial decisions in friendship
• [41:30] “Airport” analogy and the importance of a heavenly mindset
• [44:01] Growing in longing for heaven and understanding what’s to come

Closing & Reflection

The episode ends with encouragement to pursue radical generosity, transparent community, and to cultivate a robust, hopeful vision of heaven that puts all possessions—and our daily choices about them—in their right, temporary place. Jen closes by sharing:
“One of my favorite things to do is to sit on my back patio around the fire pit with the twinkle lights on … and just enjoy the beauty of the Colorado outdoors and the beauty of the people … It’s such a good gift.” (46:59)

For Listeners

If you’ve ever wondered how and why materialism subtly shapes your heart, this episode will challenge, comfort, and clarify. The hosts’ honesty, practical wisdom, and scriptural grounding will provoke new habits and deeper desires for eternal joy over temporary gain.