Podcast Summary: The Deep Dish

Episode: Going to Church When It Hurts
Date: October 16, 2025
Host: Melissa Kruger and Courtney Docter
Guest: Megan Hill

Overview

In this heartfelt and honest episode, Melissa Kruger and Courtney Docter are joined by Megan Hill, managing editor at The Gospel Coalition, to address the painful yet essential topic of “church hurt.” The conversation aims to define what church hurt is, explore why it’s so unexpected and painful, examine its biblical precedent, and offer practical, gospel-saturated direction for finding healing and hope—especially when continuing to gather with the church feels impossible. Throughout, the tone remains empathetic, honest, and deeply rooted in Scripture, with an emphasis on both acknowledging pain and pointing to the resilience and beauty of Christ’s Church.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. What Is Church Hurt? Why Does It Cut So Deeply?

• Defining “Church Hurt”
  • Megan: “Times when we have either been sinned against or failed by the people in the church… Sometimes it's really intentional… sometimes… just even human weakness, even. They're not noticing you. They're not including you.” (05:08)
  • The hosts distinguish between “sins of omission and sins of commission.”
• Why It Feels So Personal
  • Melissa: "It's one thing, like, if you were walking down the street and someone attacked you... But, you know, if you said, yeah, I was walking down the street and my dad attacked me, there's something more painful about that..." (06:31)
  • Courtney: "We deep in our souls, know that this is meant to be everything that God's word says about it... it is our family." (07:26)

2. Biblical Precedent for Hurt within God’s People

• Real hurt isn’t a new experience; the Bible is full of examples:
  • Paul deserted: Megan shares (08:48) “…at my last, my first offense, no one came and stood by me. All deserted me.”
  • David betrayed by a worship companion: “It was my friend… that was the person who wounded me.”
  • Hannah misunderstood in her distress by Eli the priest.
  • Warning in Acts 20: Melissa recalls Paul’s warning about “fierce wolves” coming from inside the church (11:21).
  • Disagreement in Philippians 4: Courtney references two women who “could not agree” (13:19).
  • “Once you start looking through the Scriptures, you see examples of how real the Bible is all over the place.” – Megan (09:57)

3. Why Stay in the Church When It Hurts?

• Christ as Example
  • Megan: “Christ came for his people and he suffered so much at their hands... and yet Scripture tells us... Having loved his own, he loved them to the end.” (16:18)
  • She points to Jesus’ vision for his church’s future: “One day the church is going to be better than she is now. And so he's sticking with her with that future vision in mind.” (17:12)
• Corporate Community as Healing
  • Melissa: “Jackie Hill Perry, a friend of all of ours said, ‘Do you know what God used to heal my church hurt? The church.’” (21:03)
  • Corporate worship, prayer, and “holding hope for each other” as powerful means of healing (21:30).

4. Is It Ever Right to Leave a Church Because of Hurt? How Do We Discern That?

• Disagreement Doesn’t Always Mean Wrongdoing
  • Megan references Acts 15 (25:18), describing Paul and Barnabas’ sharp disagreement and parting ways, with no moral judgment made by Scripture.
  • “Sometimes there are really sharp disagreements in the church... the result of it was that they went separate ways...” (25:18)
• Legitimate Reasons to Leave
  • Safety: “If there is sin that is happening there that is not safe for people to be around, you need to leave.”
  • False Teaching: “If your church is. The teaching of your church is on a course that is not biblical, then you need to go somewhere where it is biblical.” (30:01)
  • Conscience and Conviction: Sometimes beliefs change, and “you want to be at a church that... is aligned with your conviction so that you can wholeheartedly participate in that ministry.” (30:10)
• The Importance of Counsel: Seek wisdom from mature Christians outside the immediate circle (27:48).

5. How to Pray When Hurt by Others in the Church

• Praying for the Sanctified Version
  • Megan: “One of my secret things is I envision what people would be like in heaven, and then I pray for them to that end... that sanctified version of the thing that frustrates me." (33:12)
• Praying for Genuine Good
  • Melissa: “So really praying for their good, which is that they would come to a repentance heart on some things… the work of prayer… with humility.” (35:10)

6. What about Deep Wounds—Abuse and Betrayal?

• Biblical Assurance of Justice
  • Megan: “There is no sin ever committed in the history of mankind that is not dealt with. Some… punished in eternity. Some… laid on Christ... I trust that you are going to deal with this and there will be justice for this thing.” (38:10)
• Seek Appropriate Help in Cases of Abuse
  • “If it does reside in the abuse realm, then yes, you absolutely need to seek help outside of this.” (39:57)

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the Church’s Future
  • Megan Hill [01:40] & [17:12]: “One day the church is gonna be better than she is now... hold on, hold on. I’m at work here and it’s gonna get better.”
• On Healing
  • Melissa Krueger [21:03]: "Jackie Hill Perry... said, ‘Do you know what God used to heal my church hurt? The church.’"
• On Praying for Difficult People
  • Megan Hill [33:12]: “I envision what people would be like in heaven, and then I pray for them to that end.”
• On Christ’s Love for the Church
  • Melissa Krueger [18:31]: “He demonstrated this love for his people that did not waver even when their faith did.”
• On Reasons to Leave a Church
  • Megan Hill [30:01]: “If your church is... on a course that is not biblical, then you need to go somewhere where it is biblical.”

Key Scriptural Encouragements

• Psalm 34:18 (Megan Hill) [41:31]: “The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.”
• Isaiah 58:11 (Melissa Krueger) [42:17]: "The Lord will guide you continually and satisfy your desire in scorched places... and you will be like a well-watered garden...”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:08] – Defining “church hurt”, omission vs. commission
• [08:48] – Biblical precedents of church hurt/Examples in Scripture
• [16:18] – Why stay in church? Jesus as example and comfort
• [21:03] – Healing from hurt through the church itself
• [25:18] – Is it ever okay to leave a church? Discernment and Acts 15
• [33:12] – Praying for those who have hurt us
• [38:10] – Justice, vindication, and prayers for the grievously harmed
• [41:31] – Scriptures for healing and comfort

Closing Reflections

The episode’s end is marked by practical encouragement and memorable imagery:

“If you’re experiencing church hurt, it doesn’t mean the church is wrong... it means the people who are in it are sometimes wrong. And so we can still cling to the truth of this is the bride of Christ... She might not be now [beautiful], but... it’s the most hopeful place we can belong.” —Melissa Krueger [42:17]

What Megan looks forward to most at church:

“I most look forward to praying with God’s people... we are all going to come together and... hold the line for our brothers and sisters around the world, and we’re going to beg the Lord for things that he’s promised to do and he says he’s going to hear us. And yeah, the corporate prayers... are my favorite thing.” —Megan Hill [44:28]

For anyone struggling in the aftermath of church hurt, this episode gently validates every shade of pain, grounds hope in Jesus’s own faithfulness to his flawed bride, and extends a gracious challenge to persevere—in hope and in community—until the day every wound is healed and the church is made perfect.

Full episode and resources: See tgc.org/women and subscribe to the Deep Dish newsletter for more.