The Deep Dish Podcast: “Making Decisions with Our Limits in Mind”

Date: August 21, 2025
Host: Melissa Kruger & Courtney Doctor
Guest: Jen Wilkin
Podcast: The Gospel Coalition

Overview

In this warm and candid episode, hosts Melissa Kruger and Courtney Doctor are joined by Bible teacher and author Jen Wilkin to explore the wisdom of quitting—specifically, how Christians, and women in particular, can make faithful decisions while recognizing and honoring their God-given limits. The conversation covers discerning endings and beginnings, learning healthy “no’s,” navigating transitions, and fostering fruitfulness, all woven with honest personal stories and practical wisdom.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Our Identity and Seasons of Saying "No"

• Jen shares about leaving her full-time church role after a season of immense responsibility, loss, and family change.
• Insight: Ministry/calling can define us for a season, but discerning when a season is ending is a real and sometimes painful part of Christian life.
  • “It was weird to be not that old and realize I think this is coming to an end.” – Jen Wilkin (04:06)

2. Loss, Grief, and Identity in Transition

• Recognizing grief in quitting: Letting go of roles or ministries—especially beloved ones—brings a real sense of loss.
• Challenge: Not tying our identity too closely to our work, while acknowledging it naturally marks certain seasons.

3. Knowing When to Quit: Discernment Practices

• Community wisdom matters—involve church leaders, mentors, and trusted friends in decision-making (08:05–09:27).
  • “Look for the confirmation of the body in our decisions.” – Courtney Doctor (08:38)
• Tools: Pro/con lists, but submit them to wise outside review to avoid personal bias (09:27–10:17).
• Regular check-ins: Revisit decisions with mentors or loved ones, asking, “Is the situation better or worse than last time?” (10:17–11:34).

4. People-Pleasing, Too Many Good Things, and Prioritizing

• Discussing the difficulty of discerning between good and best: Many “yeses” can crowd out what's most important.
• Concentric circles exercise: Check health of your relationship with God, then family, then church—work outward in priorities (12:43–13:54).
  • “Is my relationship with the Lord characterized by health, by intimacy, by flourishing?” – Courtney Doctor (13:05)

5. Sacrificial Yeses, Healthy Boundaries, and the Wisdom of Others

• Sacrificial yeses have a place, but “not all yeses are good, and sometimes our healthiest choices are strategic no’s.”
• Mentorship is crucial: Seek out those ahead of you for perspective, especially on when to say “no” (16:00–17:32).

6. Letting Go Creates Space for Others

• Passing the baton: Stepping back allows for the growth and sanctification of others.
  • “Sometimes our no to do something good creates space for someone else to say yes.” – Melissa Kruger (20:32)
• Testimony: Giving younger women opportunities to teach led to their growth and flourishing (22:21–23:13).

7. Personal “No’s” and Family

• Real-life trade-offs: Sometimes saying no to “good” things (like teaching every week, keeping a perfect house, or making elaborate lunches) is an act of wisdom, not failure (25:06–29:16).
  • “Sometimes we can't do everything even with our kids.” – Melissa Kruger (25:59)

8. Recognizing Fruitfulness vs. Busyness

• If love, joy, peace, patience, etc. (the fruit of the Spirit) are absent, it’s a sign of overcommitment—something needs to go (29:52–31:16).

9. Social Media’s Role in Decision-making and Comparison

• Temptation to live up to filtered highlight reels: Social media can lure us into unwise yeses and comparison-based decisions (32:18–35:05).
  • “What are they saying no to in order to perpetuate that particular narrative?” – Courtney Doctor (32:09)

10. Time as a Non-renewable Resource

• Reframing time: Treat it more like a budget than an endlessly renewable asset (35:18–35:46).

11. Scripture Grounding for Discernment

• Ecclesiastes 3: “There is a time to tear down and a time to build.” There’s a season for every yes and no (36:50–37:27).
• Ephesians 5:16: “Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.” Steward your days wisely, but trust that God redeems even less-than-optimal decisions (37:27–38:58).
  • “Bad decision making as a believer is never a deal breaker. It can sometimes be the very means by which our sanctification occurs.” – Jen Wilkin (38:41)

12. God’s Will: Freedom and Faith over Fear

• God’s will is “a circle, not a dot.” Not every decision has only one “right” choice (19:34–20:24).
• Emphasis on growth and trust: Even involuntary “no’s” can bear fruit in unexpected seasons.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On healthy endings:
  “There were aspects…that only I could do as the person in that role, but it was not a role that could only be done by me.” – Jen Wilkin (04:38)

• On disappointment as a leader:
  “Leadership is learning to disappoint people at a rate they can absorb.” – Courtney Doctor (18:07)

• On fear-based decision making:
  “If the Lord has it for you, it will find you.” – Jen Wilkin (17:32)

• On capacity and comparison:
  “We tend to be really hard on ourselves for the one or two things that we…left undone or over-committed to or said no to.” – Jen Wilkin (29:16)

• On family and real impact:
  “I'm actually not disappointing them. I'm disappointing my own version of the mother I think I should be.” – Melissa Kruger (25:13)

• On sanctification via decisions:
  “Good decision making doesn't always yield good fruit. It can yield self-righteousness.” – Jen Wilkin (38:54)

• On aging and priorities:
  “If you were told you only have a year to live, you would know exactly how to clear your calendar. Exactly.” – Jen Wilkin (41:37)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Quitting and Loss in Ministry: 03:06–06:14
• Discernment Practices & Community: 08:04–10:17
• Prioritizing “Concentric Circles”: 12:43–13:54
• Mentorship, Affirming No’s: 16:00–17:32
• Allowing Others to Serve: 20:28–23:13
• Saying No in Family Life: 25:02–29:16
• Fruitfulness Over Busyness: 29:52–31:16
• Social Media & Comparison: 32:09–35:05
• Time Budgeting: 35:18–35:46
• Scripture & Wisdom: 36:50–38:58
• Redefining God’s Will: 19:34–20:24
• Aging and Priorities: 41:34–43:04
• Encouragement for Mentorship: 43:32–44:31

Final Reflections

• Discuss in-person wisdom-seeking (“Who do you wish you had said no to?”) and the value of mentors, parents, and friends a step ahead (44:12–45:02).
• Gentle humor and vulnerability thread throughout the discussion, making these truths accessible and deeply relatable.
• Ending with a reminder: Leave space for rest and renewal—saying yes to restful moments is just as important as productive ones.

This episode is an affirmation that Christian maturity involves humility, intentionality, and trust: knowing that in God’s sovereignty, our limits are gifts for us and for others—and sometimes, the “no’s” we wrestle with are just as faith-filled as our “yeses.”