Rachel Myers (3:20)

Thank you so much for having us.

Amanda Bible Williams (3:22)

It's so fun.

Courtney Docter (3:23)

This is so fun.

Rachel Myers (3:24)

And it's a first time. I love a first time. This is so exciting.

Amanda Bible Williams (3:28)

I know, I know. And it's also fun to have two other, like, real life friends and ministry partners and join us. Like, this is like, oh, we could form a little club of, you know, people who love, like, doing ministry together. Okay. Melissa, you already said that. Rachel and Amanda co founded this online community called she Reads Truth, which I'm sure all of our listeners are familiar with, but they have this passion for compelling women to actually read your Bible. Read your Bible. And so you offer lots of different daily reading plans. These beautiful. I think that that's one thing that's really distinctive about your ministry is the aesthetic beauty of it. These beautiful devotions. And you also have platforms to help us connect with what we're learning from God's Word. So you don't just throw us out there and leave us on our own, but you actually help us study it. And so today, the reason the four of us are gathered to talk about this is we wanna talk about Bible engagement, which by that we mean reading your Bible, knowing your Bible, studying your Bible, but ultimately loving your Bible. Loving God's Word. So Rachel and Amanda, at what point in your life did you really, did you start to love God's Word?

Rachel Myers (4:38)

I'll go first. And Amanda and I both, like, we grew up as little girls in the church with the ruffle socks and like, the like, good memories of like, taking naps in the pews, like.

Rachel Myers (4:54)

And that's, I think, a common experience for many. But I like your question, which isn't like, did you grow up in the pew? But, like, when did you start to like, love, love, love God's Word? And I did. I attended a Christian school, first grade through 12th grade, and then also a Christian college and so forth. Most of my formative life, my GPA was attached to Bible memorization, like theology, understanding, like all of these things. So that's like an added layer for me of like, that grammar level learning was like, we're Learning the Bible. And we're so. I have that beautiful foundation that, like, is probably one of the most priceless things to me. But I would say I probably, around middle school, you know, started to pick up that, like, that understanding of, like, oh, I need to decide what I believe about this for myself. And then it was when I got married, and I got married at 20. So it was younger, but it was when I got married and I got my first copy of. And I still have it. My Reformation Study Bible. Yes. And it's so dear to me. And I just started reading through it and then, of course, and I think probably a lot of people have this common experience as well, like that. That first hard, hard life experience hits. And for some people, that's very young. For me, it was around 26 when we. And I've shared this story publicly a lot of times when we lost our daughter. She was stillborn. And that was the moment for me when it went from I know what it says to I know what I believe about what it says to. Like, how does this inform how I live, respond to crisis? Do I cling to Christ, or do I just give up and walk away? And so that was the moment for me in. I guess that was 2008. And it was honestly one of the things that, like, really cemented in my whole being, this love for Scripture. And Amanda and I wrote about this in our very first trade book. The subtitle was Holding Tight to Permanent in a World that's Passing Away. And it was just like this moment of realizing everything around me is gonna go away, even my family, even the things that look to be true forever. And it was that moment for me of just like, but this isn't going anywhere. It promises. It's not going anywhere. Christ and his promises remain.

Amanda Bible Williams (7:21)

Oh, makes me think. I think it's Deuteronomy 32:27, where Moses is ending, you know, his time with the Israelites. And he says that he's written everything down. And he says, these are no mere words for you or no idle words for you. They are your life. And it's like. It's so true. It's so true. Amanda, what about you? Just this love of God's word.

Courtney Docter (7:41)

I love that Rachel went first because I was kind of tracking as she's talking. I'm, like, thinking about my own journey, which, you know, very similar, because we have that common start of being growing up in the church.

Courtney Docter (7:59)

And I think that I fell in love with Jesus before I fell in love with Scripture. In fact, I Know that I did. And so for me in my younger years and in high school, college, in college I was really in love with theology, which was kind of problematic because that's different than being in love with scripture or in love with Jesus. And so for me, I think that kind of my intentional like relationship with scripture.

Courtney Docter (8:35)

Started to. I like the word cement that you used, Rachel, cement for me between like college and marriage, like kind of in that window, which for me was about five years time. And that is when you know, some other, some friends of mine, I just love that season of life. Like I have such fond memories of that season. And we would gather together and do, do like self directed Bible studies. We would just pick a resource and a book that we wanted to read through in the Bible and our group of like 10 or 12, just really good, like in real life, friends, we would just get together. We all went to different churches, but that's something that we did. And it really formed in a lot of those friendships. But I think that is where I first felt like I could kind of start to swim in the pages of scripture on my own. You know, like, I was like, okay, I've had. Or, or maybe like, if I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with this analogy. Let's just see. I've never done this before, but let's think about it. Like, I think until then I was always only in God's word or primarily when I. With somebody else right there with me. Right. Like you think of like a parent holding a child in the pool. And then I feel like in, in like college and I'm like, got my floaties on. I'm like, oh, well, I can maybe do this on my own. But it was in that kind of early 20s space that I started kind of exploring on my own and then honestly doing. Laughs yeah. And then the diving board for me was SHE READS Truth like because I had that affection for God's wor. I think that's part of what he used to, you know, in me to sort of knit my heart together with this mission of women in the word of God every day. But then, you know, there's this moment where Rachel and I are looking at each other going, okay, we're doing this. And, and we dove in at that moment and we have been swimming laps ever since. You know, like we live in the pool and it's.

Rachel Myers (10:51)

I don't know if that works.

Courtney Docter (10:52)

I'm not sure.

Rachel Myers (10:54)

I'm not sure.

Melissa Krueger (10:55)

Yeah, the food analogy, I was like, you know, it's kind of like, you start on milk. You know that. Yeah. And then you move to meat. But then when you start preparing it for others, you really start understanding flavor. Like when you were saying that.

Rachel Myers (11:08)

I love that.

Courtney Docter (11:09)

Yeah.

Melissa Krueger (11:09)

You know, I would know, oh, I like that food. But it wasn't until I started cooking that I understood what in that food I liked.

Courtney Docter (11:17)

Yes.

Melissa Krueger (11:18)

And. And so it's, like, so different when you start preparing it for others. That's when you really start learning some.

Amanda Bible Williams (11:24)

Food is delicious and some is just good for you, and you gotta eat them both.

Courtney Docter (11:29)

That's right. Okay.

Rachel Myers (11:30)

I'm into this.

Courtney Docter (11:31)

I am, too. I am, too. But I really do think that it. She reads. Truth is what the Lord used to like. I. The Bible feels like one of the great loves of my life. And. And I think that. Is that. That level, like, that experience came through, this experience that Rachel and I've had together of stewarding this. This mission.

Melissa Krueger (11:55)

That's so beautiful. I love that. That love affair. I. I had a. I was Marco Polo with a friend yesterday about something I was actually really sad about and how scripture had just met me, and it was just this daily light, little devotional. That's all scripture. And I said it was just the tenderness of the Lord. He knew what passage I needed for that day, and it was. It was just kindness. And, you know, I was tearing up as I was telling her about it, and I was like, scripture does that in a way, and I think it's based on what both of you are saying, because it's foundational. It's an anchor reminding you of this God we serve. But it is this. This way he loves us and reminds us. I'm. I'm with you in. In all these things. Well, I think we all share that, and we think, oh, yeah, we love and, you know, we could probably all list off the stories in the Old Testament we love and the passages that have ministered to us through the years. But, you know, a lot of women come to scripture and they open it up and they are like, what are you people talking about?

Courtney Docter (12:59)

Yeah.

Melissa Krueger (12:59)

I mean, who is that guy? And why is he hitting a rock? And why is matter and have anything to do with my life? And they shut it and they're like, I don't get it. I don't get it. Like, what would you say to a woman? I mean, you know, because a lot of people have never been to church. They don't. They. They feel completely intimidated to open up the Bible. The things we like, will rattle off so quickly and, you know, oh, yeah. Moses, when he did this, and then Joseph, you know, we. They're like, I don't know what you're talking about. With the code of many colors. I don't know who these people are. What would you say to a woman who might come and feel so discouraged, even when she opens and she's like, what's happening?

Rachel Myers (13:42)

I don't know if this is the right answer, but the first thing that comes to mind, Melissa, is the Ethiopian eunuch. Like, I think about Philip, like, seeing him, the spirit, leading Philip along to him and just kind of asking, like, because he's reading the scroll of Isaiah, like, do you understand what you're reading? He's like, how can I understand if no one explains it to me? And so my immediate thought is like, oh, if you feel overwhelmed, first of all, you're not alone. You're actually probably in the majority, especially if you're, like, new to Scripture.

Courtney Docter (14:12)

Yeah.

Rachel Myers (14:13)

Go ask somebody who isn't like, oh, my word. Like, the joy of somebody. Like, I mean, I have, you know, some of my kids. Friends will reach out to me. Like, Mrs. Myers, will you have coffee with me? Like, absolutely. I would love the honor of getting to unpack what's confusing to you? So my encouragement would be to not do it alone. Like, right off the bat. Like, I mean, with the swimming analogy, don't just jump in and feel like you have to figure. Teach yourself how to.

Amanda Bible Williams (14:40)

Only there was an online community that could help you do that. Wow.

Rachel Myers (14:45)

We have. I know a girl who.

Amanda Bible Williams (14:48)

She reads Truth.

Courtney Docter (14:49)

Have we got a website for you.

Rachel Myers (14:52)

Yes. We read the Bible in community, and it's perfect for the girl who's been reading scripture all her life. And it's perfect for. For the girl who wakes up today and says, I want to read the Bible. I'm so intimidated. Where do I read? Can I read it with somebody who can help me? That's what we made. We made that. She readstruth.com I love that.

Amanda Bible Williams (15:12)

Amanda, did you want to add anything to that?

Courtney Docter (15:14)

Yeah, I think I would just add that, you know, you're definitely not alone. I can vividly remember those feelings and sometimes still have some of those moments where I'm like, what is happening here? And I also want to encourage you that just as you would with any other historical text, like ancient text, to remember that the reason that when you open it and you have a hard time doing a direct, like, correlation or direct, you're like, what? This is happening? They're in Egypt, and then I'm in Nashville, and there's two, you know, 3,000 years between us. What, what, what do I do is to remember that these are real people. This is a real God, and he is engaging with his people in real time and space. And we have. We have a record of it. And that is such a gift. But you do have to kind of enter into the space in which it was written for it to start to make sense. That doesn't mean that you have to fully understand context in order for God to use scripture in your heart and your life. We all know that's not true because the Lord, we can each testify. Rachel and I, as little girls, right? Like, I can testify to you of, like, scripture, the Holy Spirit, using God's word in my life and to transform me when I did not understand what I was reading. But it is living and active, and the Holy Spirit is living and active. And so I just would encourage. I would encourage that. That you may feel like you're starting from a deficit. That's not true. You're just starting, and that's okay. That's a great place to be. I'm actually a little bit not. I don't know if jealous is the right word, but, like, I have such fond memories of the first times that I read scripture for myself and started to feel some dots connecting.

Rachel Myers (17:26)

Yeah.

Courtney Docter (17:27)

And that is such a beautiful experience.

Rachel Myers (17:29)

Here's what I love that is true.

Rachel Myers (17:33)

When you want to learn something, you want to be. You want to become good at it. You, like, you want to become a really good singer, you hire a vocal coach. I wanted to become a really good gardener, so I hired a garden coach. Like, I was like, no shame. Like, please teach me. Like, come shoulder to shoulder, plant with me. And that was true. Like, that was good to just go, like, I'm going to actually invite somebody who's better than me at this to do it with me shoulder to shoulder, and I'll learn from them. So that's true. And also the number of, like, surprise things that I have succeeded with in my garden just by putting my hands to the soil and just, like, discovering for myself. Like, both of those things are true. Like, go to the person who knows more than you and ask them to do it with you and go at it. And like, the spirit, like, the, like, the word of God is living and active, and you have the Holy Spirit at the ready to enlighten and illuminate those words for you to change your life.

Amanda Bible Williams (18:34)

Well, and Amanda, what you were talking about this, the way we view the Bible, you know, the word we could use for it is the hermeneutic that we come to the Bible with. The what? Like, what's our interpretive grid? What are we. What are we thinking about the Bible? And you were really hinting at it. But I remember in seminary, a professor said to me, the Bible was not written to you. It was written for you, but not to you. And I was like, wait a minute. You know, put on the brakes here. I had been taught this was like God's love letter directly underneath. And I was to read it as if this was God speaking directly to Courtney. And what he was saying was, you know, Moses was. Moses don't know you. Like, Moses did not write this to Courtney. Paul did not write this to Courtney. And so there's this original audience aspect, but he said, but the Bible is absolutely written for you. But that also means if it wasn't written to me, it's actually ultimately. Right. Not about me.

Courtney Docter (19:25)

Yeah.

Amanda Bible Williams (19:25)

And so if somebody's listening and they're like, okay, they're talking about how I approach the Bible matters. Right. And understanding, like, what it is.

Rachel Myers (19:34)

How.

Amanda Bible Williams (19:34)

What would you say? Like, what is the Bible ultimately about? Because that's going to be a primary question for how we come to the Bible.

Courtney Docter (19:42)

Yeah.

Amanda Bible Williams (19:43)

So what's. What's the Bible about?

Courtney Docter (19:44)

You know, it can feel rude. Like, the answer can be like, it's not about you, but it's. It's not rude. It's freeing because the Bible is about God. Rachel, I interrupted you. What were you going to say?

Rachel Myers (19:56)

No, I just like, the answer. Like, the Bible is the story of the Gospel. It is a story of like.

Rachel Myers (20:04)

Like creation is man's need and like, the. The redemption of creation. Garden to garden. The Bible is about what God has done to create and rescue a people for himself, for his glory.

Amanda Bible Williams (20:18)

Yeah.

Rachel Myers (20:18)

I don't know what the Westminster Confession of Faith says. I've learned a lot of those, but I don't remember that one off the top of my head. But that, like, that's what the Bible's about. That's what I would tell a girl across the table from me.

Amanda Bible Williams (20:29)

I love that. Or I would probably say From Garden to Glory instead of from garden to Garden. But it's like understanding what it's about, that it is a progressive revelation. It's a story of how God is redeeming all things. And so I think, like, even the title of your latest resource, that the Bible is for you. But again, understanding that it's not about me or written directly to me, but it's absolutely For I love that.

Courtney Docter (20:55)

Yeah, well, what Rachel just said, that's actually, it's really personal.

Courtney Docter (21:03)

Because, you know, when you describe it that way, you can, you can still say, well, okay, what? But where am I in that? But the thing is, is that is also. That is for you. And so in that story of garden to garden, garden to glory garden is, you know, the God who, if I'm looking you in the eye directly and I'm saying, Courtney, this is the God who created you and created you to live free and fully loved in his presence. And the Bible is the story of how to use Sandra Richter's like, that's his intent. Right. For you to have a people living in. She puts it really simply. And I love this, that it's God, God's intent to have God's people dwelling in God's place in God's presence. And that. So we have that in creation in the beginning. And then the Bible is the story of how that that presence or that relationship was broken. But then God pursues his people through the entire arc of scripture with his presence.

Courtney Docter (22:17)

Back to all the way to revelation, where in the new creation, in the new heavens and the new earth, we will be back in God's place in his presence as his people forever. And so in that story is related to every single moment of your life right here and now.

Amanda Bible Williams (22:36)

Yep.

Courtney Docter (22:37)

And then all that, that means we could, we need a infinity long podcast to talk about because we're still learning, right? It just keeps going.

Melissa Krueger (22:48)

Yeah. And I always like to think too. I like to say to the, to people because sometimes, you know, they come to the Bible and they don't. It's just another opinion. I, I also like to say, you know, it's about God's work, but it's revealed truth, not someone's, not men's opinion through the ages. And I think this is, I like to think about it this way because it's so different because, you know, you're a dot, you're a dot, you're a dot. We all have opinions about what this world's about, but we're actually saying when we get into scripture is that the infinite God of all the universe chose through his spirit to reveal truth through these stories, through narratives, through, you know, people who were chosen by the Holy Spirit to record it. So it's actually different than any other book out there. And yeah, it's thousands of years old, isn't it? Amazing that it's still relevant. You know, I don't, I don't read Oedipus Rex quite the same way. Like, I'm like, what is going on with these?

Rachel Myers (23:52)

You know, it's. It's.

Amanda Bible Williams (23:53)

I don't read Oedipus Rex actually.

Melissa Krueger (23:55)

Yeah, not since high school. That's. That's a good point. Give it to Melissa. And so, you know, and so that's why we think of this as different than any other book. You know, that when. When we get into it, because it's been re. It's truth revealed. And. And in a lot of ways, I don't know who it was who said it. It's revealing us. He says, you know, I went in scriptures and realized as I was reading it, it was reading me. And that's actually one of the ways we know it's true. And that's not circular. It's. It's. It's speaking. It's doing exactly what it says it does. It's living and active.

Courtney Docter (24:30)

Yeah, it's relationship. I mean, it's. To me, the Bible is proof that we have a God who wants to be known. And that it. That in itself is astounding.

Amanda Bible Williams (24:48)

It is.

Courtney Docter (24:49)

And then, I mean, in one sense, you could say the Bible is the story of the links that God goes to to be known and by his people. It's so beautiful.

Melissa Krueger (25:03)

And I think this actually leads to my next question, because I think this should.

Rachel Myers (25:06)

We're.

Melissa Krueger (25:07)

We're talking about the beauty of it. Some people, especially performance types, can think, okay, I need to be in the Bible so that I get approval from God. And, you know, or they might. They might say, hey, y' all a bunch of legalists over there. Why do you. God loves me no matter what. He doesn't care if I read my Bible every day. Yeah, I think we can fall on both sides, you know, in both ditches sometimes. Like, I'm either worthy because, you know, I read it every day for an hour and I know every theological point, or we can think it doesn't really matter that much. How do you speak to women? Where's the middle ground there? Like, what. What's a healthy understanding of our relationship with scripture?

Rachel Myers (25:58)

A lot of times we talk to women just from the framework of, you gotta know what it says, knowing your Bible. Like, it is one whole thing to say, like, I love the Lord and I see his word as faithful, true, my authority, and that's good and done. But then just kind of digging into. But do you know your Bible? Like, do you know what it says? And I've been reading my Bible for decades, and I'm still seeing and learning what it says. Like, I talk about, like, if you've been reading. If you read your Bible every day this week and haven't yet been taught, corrected, or trained in righteousness, it's possible that, like, go back, like, ask the Spirit to help. Because what, like that point, like what Paul says is the point of Bible reading or one of the ways, one of. I'm going to rephrase that. Not the point of Bible reading, but one of the most important efficacies of Bible reading would be to be changed to not just walk away, you know, encouraged, but to be changed to know what it says and then get to let that change you.

Amanda Bible Williams (27:07)

Hmm.

Courtney Docter (27:07)

Absolutely. I mean, you look at the Gospels, the Pharisees knew the law, they knew the Torah. They spent time in.

Rachel Myers (27:17)

You know, he was like the chief knower of the scripture.

Courtney Docter (27:21)

Yeah. Like, Paul's like, dude, I knew all the things. And. But it is, you know, you think about just Jesus teachings about the kingdom of God and how it's just, it's. It's about the heart. It's a heart posture and how, like, you can actually, you can do. You can do so many things, right? And you, you know, in. In your marriage, you can be faithful and not commit adultery. But have you ever had just like a fleeting thought about someone who wasn't your spouse? Well, that's actually still missing the mark. Right. So it. That. It is about our hearts. And so that's one of the things I think that's so beautiful about Bible reading and the way that God uses His Word in our hearts and in our lives. And is that it? There are seasons. We know that life is full of seasons. And so when people hear us say we want to be women in the word of God every day, I'm sure sometimes that falls on ears where they're like. Like that, like another thing for me to do every day. But the. The posture there is like, that's how often we need it. We need it all the time. We need it every day. But some days there is a verse that I'm just going to read and meditate on and cling to, and the Lord is going to use that verse to convict me, to comfort me. Whatever it is that's going on in me, he knows. And he can use. He can use a verse of Scripture in that way, in a powerful way. And also.

Courtney Docter (28:57)

We read through Paul's letters in one sitting. Right. Like, I'm going to sit and I'm going to read all of Ephesians because it's going to take me 15 minutes, and I'm going to see what's happening in this letter. And that too, will. Will. Just till up what's in us. And so I just. I think that, like, the. The temptation to legalism is so real, just like it is with every other thing in our faith and in our life. Like, we just want a formula and a list to check off. But as we know, with anything else that's important to us in our lives, it is important to have discipline, because that shows commitment and devotion and faithfulness. And also.

Courtney Docter (29:43)

It just requires us to keep coming back and to take the ebbs and flows as it comes, because that's what we do in every other important relationship in our life. Right.

Amanda Bible Williams (29:52)

Well, and it's so vast. I mean, the word of God is so vast. The fact that we think we can just come and grab, you know, that. That the point of our daily Bible reading is to make our day go better. Right. Occasionally it. Occasionally it does that, right? The comfort, the instruction, the teaching, the rebuke, the correction, the training and righteousness. Like, those things happen. But the reality is it's a lifetime where we're just building this. We're letting the word of God dwell in us richly by spending time in it day after day after day. R.C. sproul, and I'll botch it, but he said that I became a Christian. I mean, my heart changed immediately, like, overnight, but I did not overnight learn all of the things that I needed to know about God. That was a lifetime pursuit for him and for all of us. And so this idea of building each day just tucking a little bit more away and maybe chewing on it and thinking, I have no idea what I just read. I actually had that experience this morning. And back to your point at the beginning, Rachel. I texted a friend who is actually a scholar in this particular area, and I said, when you're back, when you come back to our house in two weeks, he and his wife are spending the night. I have a question about this one verse. Like, I really. It really kind of rattled me, and I'm like, I need to talk about it. And so, like, I'm looking forward to that. But it's that daily just building, building, building, building, and the love of it actually comes, which is what we kind of all are marveling that the Lord's done in our hearts and our minds. Rachel.

Rachel Myers (31:24)

It's another one of those. I'm so glad many things are true here it is as it relates to this. Because, like, I think about, I shared with you guys at the beginning, like, I grew up, I had to memorize a chapter of Scripture a month, right? And so. And that was like, my goodness, hand motions. We did whatever it took, but those little soft brains were wrinkling with Scripture blessing, right? But that meant that at 26, when we got just horrible news that the daughter that we were carrying would probably not survive or not be born living, I didn't have to open my Bible for the first time. In fact, Scripture carried us out of that hospital. It just came forth from our mouths to each other, and we. We didn't have a Bible open. It was just in us, right? And even, like, as we were, like, asleep at night, like, I remember I've shared this story before. Like, one night, dead asleep, woke up to the sound of my own voice being too loud, quoting from John. Like, the thief comes to kill, steal and destroy. But I've come that you have life, and you'll have it in abundance. Like, it was so deep in me. And memorizing it as a little kid, as a high schooler, as a college student, those were important times. And the scripture impacted me significantly then. It's not like it was meaningless at that point, but now, then knowing it and it just being in me, being a part of me, the Spirit used the living and active Word to minister to me when I didn't even have a Bible open in front of me.

Amanda Bible Williams (32:54)

I hope any mother, grandmother, aunt, Sunday school teacher who's listening is just deeply both encouraged and convicted to keep doing this thing like poor. It will not return void. It will not return void. And I think out of the four of us, I'm the one that doesn't have that testimony of. Of being raised knowing Scripture. And so, you know, it's like there is. There is hope for those, you know, of us who grew up without that being a part of our foundation.

Rachel Myers (33:24)

But.

Amanda Bible Williams (33:25)

But, man, what. What a blessing.

Rachel Myers (33:29)

And the beauty is that is true. And, Courtney, like you just said, you didn't grow up that way. And, like, scripture met you right where you are when it did. And, like, had I had that foundation and had I still, you know, had that experience and that negative ultrasound and all of these things, and I had to open Scripture for the first time that very day. It would have ministered to me.

Amanda Bible Williams (33:52)

Right?

Courtney Docter (33:54)

That's right.

Melissa Krueger (33:54)

True.

Rachel Myers (33:55)

And I feel like it's important to say that part out loud so it's not like, well, if you missed the boat at age 6, you've missed out.

Amanda Bible Williams (34:03)

But your foundation there is. I mean, that is the parable of the sand and the rock foundation. I mean, there is a foundation that has to be built over time that have. We will withstand the storms and that. That's truth. Now, is the Lord limited? Absolutely not. But is it better to have that foundation built?

Rachel Myers (34:25)

Read the Bible on the plains so that it's with you in the valleys and it's with you on the mountaintops, like.

Courtney Docter (34:30)

Right. That's right. It's deposits into. And that's what I wanted to encourage those who are either, you know, right at the beginning of their Bible reading journey, or maybe they've kind of, you know, it's kind of fallen off of their daily rhythm or regular rhythm. And I would just say, like, it is, it is always the right time to come back to Scripture, and there's no shame in that. I mean, there is, it is an end. If you read and you're like, huh? I don't feel different after having read what I read today. That doesn't mean you did it wrong. That doesn't mean it's not working in you, that God's not working in you. You are making deposits into this account. Right. Of that and what you just said, Courtney, that he does not, does not return void. And so we all, I think, can speak to that, of just how grateful we are for our own. Like, grateful to our past selves for having read scripture when we didn't feel like it.

Rachel Myers (35:44)

It is never time that you regret spending it. Just. There are a lot of things you can regret spending time on. It's never that.

Melissa Krueger (35:50)

Sometimes, though, I think we do think of Bible reading a little bit like exercise and, you know, like, you lifted weights like, once, and you're like, why are my arms not toned yet?

Courtney Docter (35:59)

Yes. Court. Listen, Melissa, this is, this is the thing that I, because I, and I feel it toward myself, I get frustrated with myself because I, I, it's like when it comes to matters of faith and, and, and in Bible reading specifically, too, I just, it's. Sometimes I just suspend all logic. And I'm like, why is this, why is this not work? Like, why is my not developing in this way? I'm like, well.

Courtney Docter (36:29)

You know, and then you start to just apply, like, basic logic. And I'm like, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, I'm back. Back. Yeah. But it is hard. It's like any relationship, it's tough. I was thinking about how, you know, you come to Jesus and, like, you become a believer. But was it you, Martin Luther, the quote that you said, Courtney, where it's like he had that bit, that experience and then. But he didn't know everything he needed to know.

Amanda Bible Williams (36:57)

Yeah. RC Sproul. But he was probably.

Courtney Docter (36:59)

RC Sproul.

Amanda Bible Williams (37:00)

Probably riffing off of Luther.

Courtney Docter (37:01)

Write it down. Not exactly contemporary, so that's okay. But that is. It's like when you commit, you know, And I think about, like, when I married my husband, like, my. My love and commitment, that covenant was real. And also, I am still learning 22 years later, I am still learning this man about this man that I married. M. And how to be in, like, relationship with him. And so it just. It's. Yeah, it's like, it's different. And also, it's not fully different.

Amanda Bible Williams (37:35)

Yeah.

Courtney Docter (37:36)

Yeah.

Melissa Krueger (37:36)

Okay.

Amanda Bible Williams (37:37)

Well, I want to.

Rachel Myers (37:38)

Okay.

Amanda Bible Williams (37:39)

We've been talking about, like, how we individually so desperately need this. And part of what you all founded with she Reads Truth is a community of people reading the Word. But we want to talk about the local church. And so a lot of Bible studies that we do are done in the context of the local church in that particular community. And we. We say, yes, that's a great place to be doing that. But how does. I love. I love talking about this because for so long, I thought even the Bible study that I was showing up to at my local church, I was doing my individual study each day for me, and then I was showing up to Bible study to learn. Right. That those were. Those were my categories. And it really, like, expanded my heart and my mind and gave me even more of a desire to be in God's Word when I started understanding. Oh, there's a community aspect to this that has nothing to do with me. And yet my time in the Word matters to that community. So talk about the communal aspect of growing in God's Word together and how. How your knowledge of the Bible, your growing knowledge and your growing love of the Word impacts those around you. Your family, your friends, your community, neighbors.

Courtney Docter (38:54)

I mean, it absolutely does. And we see. We see evidence of that in Scripture itself. Right. I mean, acts, like, will blow your mind as you're reading. And I think sometimes, like, I think about that, like, acts community. And I. And I. I think sometimes we can say, yeah, but that was then. That was this thing that. That God did. And, yes, it was a big thing that God did and what he is still doing. And so we, too. I mean, I. I could not. I think a lot about the low points of life and how difficult it would be to get through them without the Lord and without Scripture and without my people. And those are not separate to me. You know, like, I see God's kindness and God's provision and care for me through other people. But also, you know, apart from that particular application where you're like, oh, you're like in the valley, just in everyday life and in learning.

Courtney Docter (40:11)

I can learn, yes. But I can also, when I learn alongside and with and from others in whom the Holy Spirit lives and is. Is active and they are. They have their own relationship with God and with scripture. And we get to all lean on that. Like, we get to all be transformed from the inside out ourselves, but also as a community of believers. And something I think we also don't usually like, gets missed when we read Scripture. Especially, like we think about in the New Testament and in the letters and like Paul's letters, the general letters, where we think that most of the instruction is for us as individuals, most of the instruction is for the community.

Courtney Docter (41:10)

And we just take it and make it individualistic. But it's really. It's not written that way.

Courtney Docter (41:17)

And so I just. I don't think we lean on what this. I love the premise of this question because I think it's something that we often miss. And you kind of connect that to our conversation at the beginning of this episode. That, of course, you have people opening scripture and thinking, this is so much, how do I do this? How do I navigate this? But that was never the design. The design was never that we navigated alone.

Amanda Bible Williams (41:47)

Yeah, that's good.

Rachel Myers (41:48)

I mean, one of the most, like, precious times of my week is sitting in the pew with my family, like, with my kids next to me. And I understand that's not exactly the premise of your question because you were, you know, asking more about, like, community and Bible study and that kind of thing. But, like, there's something about that, like, home community for me, especially of getting to my kids sit in under instruction, under biblical instruction, five days a week at school. And I, the same personally, my husband, the same personally. But it is our time to come together as a family and receive the same instruction and to drive home and go into our weeks having that common instruction together. Like, that's so meaningful to me. And I. We're recording this before it releases. But this Sunday is. I mean, I've been building to this all of the last year. I, like, make my son sit next to me in church because I'm just like, there will come a time next year at this time where you won't be next to me. And this Sunday is the last Sunday that he'll be next to me before he moves away. And it's Just like, I'm just already picturing the white knuckles of, like, thinking about not having that, like, the four of us under that shared instruction. I'll also add, and this is unrelated but related to your question, Amanda and I have this benefit weekly of reading our Bibles and having an intentional discussion with somebody, even if it's just each other. But usually, I guess, like, as we host our podcast and so we get this benefit, like, I don't know how to read the Bible and not talk about it.

Amanda Bible Williams (43:24)

Yeah.

Rachel Myers (43:25)

Like, my. My M.O. is like, read the scriptures, like, pour over them, make notes, have that personal study time, and just wait with anticipation for the moment where a guest comes on or Amanda and I are together and we get to go. Did you see that?

Amanda Bible Williams (43:42)

Yes. Because you then see what she saw and she sees what you saw, and you're having these Gospel conversations and even your family sitting together. It gives you the shared language to talk about that week of how the preacher presented that particular text. And it's just. It's so beautiful.

Rachel Myers (44:00)

And we say at the end of every episode or nearly every episode, some version of do not outsource your Bible reading to us. Like, now you go read your Bibles and pretend you're having a mini podcast. Like, grab some friends and, like, talk about it. Like, that response time is done so well in community. It's such a good opportunity. And, like, you think about Amanda, you, like, we're talking about acts. People weren't just, like, alone, like, reading scrolls and then, like, closing them up and, like, going about their day. They were reading, they were learning, they were discussing. They were even contending in community.

Melissa Krueger (44:36)

And I think, too, for a long time, I thought of my Bible, my Bible reading as me time.

Rachel Myers (44:42)

Yeah.

Melissa Krueger (44:43)

And I've actually changed that now to say this is actually how I'm best serving that my neighbor, how I'm serving my community, how I'm serving the world. Because being transformed is the best thing I can do.

Courtney Docter (44:58)

Yes.

Melissa Krueger (44:59)

You know, because it's going to take. It's going to change me in every interaction with. With people around me. And who knows, maybe that passage you read this morning that you're like, what was that about? Maybe I'm going to have a conversation with Courtney in two hours. And that exact verse is what I, the Lord gave me so I could encourage her.

Rachel Myers (45:20)

I don't.

Amanda Bible Williams (45:21)

So many times.

Rachel Myers (45:22)

I love that.

Courtney Docter (45:23)

Yes.

Amanda Bible Williams (45:24)

It's happened so many times.

Melissa Krueger (45:25)

Yeah. We don't think about it communally enough. Like, I'm not eating just for me. I'm eating so I'm equipped to serve others.

Amanda Bible Williams (45:34)

Yeah. Isaiah said in Isaiah 50, it's one of my favorite passages. Verse four, he said, the Lord God has given me the tongue of those who are taught. Or the NIV says, an instructed tongue. And he says, so that I may know how to sustain the weary with a word. So like he. And then he goes on. He's like, morning. By morning, he awakens me. He awakens my ear to hear as those who are taught. The Lord God has opened my ear, and I was not rebellious. I turned, not backwards. And I think about that all the time. When my alarm goes off, I'm like, I don't want to be rebellious. I don't want to turn backward because I actually want an instructed tongue. Because I need to be able to preach the gospel back to my own soul, and I need to be able to share it with the weary who are around me. And sometimes I'm the weary, and sometimes, you know, Melissa's the weary. And. But. But I benefit from the fact that all three of you have spent time in the Word and that you love his Word. It has sanctified me, it has strengthened me, it has edified me. And so there's just this. It's not just for us and for our suffering. It's for. And for our growth. It's for the growth and the circumstances of those around us, too. Amen.

Courtney Docter (46:38)

So good.

Melissa Krueger (46:38)

So good, so good. Well, we just want to say one, thank you for the work you do. I mean, let's just praise God for families who won. I can't believe you're memorizing whole books of the Bible as a child to praise the Lord.

Courtney Docter (46:54)

Yeah.

Melissa Krueger (46:54)

I mean, because he was doing that, right? To prepare you, I mean, you know, for the works of service that he would give you to do in a lot of ways. And so praise the Lord. I just love getting to talk with all three of you because we're all in love with the same person in some ways in this book that, that we all love. And it really is a joy. Yeah, I think we. Oh, we talk about lesser joys all the time. Like, let me tell you about this restaurant and this food. And like, we get to share a meal together over God's word that we can all say has been life giving and fulfilling. And I think all of our heart, for anyone listening is, come taste and see with us.

Rachel Myers (47:35)

Amen.

Melissa Krueger (47:36)

It's so good. He's so good. So thank you for being here. Thank you for the work you continue to do, for the resources that I Think you're providing that just point people back to God's word. So, so thank you. And so this is our, our fun final question for today, which this will be interesting to hear from you guys. I know if you could snap your fingers and have one book of the Bible completely memorized, which one would it be?

Rachel Myers (48:02)

Here's what I'll say. I think I was on vacation last week. We were at the beach and I was alone in my hotel room when I woke up. And so I just like opened up the book of Matthew and I was listening to it and just kept listening and kept listening and listened to almost the entire, like I got to chapter 26 of 28, just several hours. But it was just like I didn't want to stop because hearing it and that consistency consecutive, like hearing the story of Jesus was so moving that I didn't want to move. And so if I could have that fully hidden in my heart, the whole book of Matthew, I would tell it to myself all the time.

Courtney Docter (48:40)

Mine would be John. If I could just start in the beginning was the Lord and the words with like I would and just keep going and getting hit. Like, oh man. You think about like chapters 14 and 15 and 16. And then I think, and I love John 20 so much with Mary Magdalene. And oh, I just love it so much. I, I, you ask what you're doing.

Amanda Bible Williams (49:04)

Amanda, like you're feeding his sheep. Like, I'm just, I'm like, go all the way to John 21 because that's what you're doing.

Melissa Krueger (49:11)

I love it.

Courtney Docter (49:11)

All of it, all of it. And I want you asking that question. It makes me want to do that. Like, I wonder if I started now, by the end of my life, would the Lord gives me enough time? Like, can I have the whole way? Is that possible?

Rachel Myers (49:27)

I remember growing up, my stepdad was memorizing the book of James at the time. And he had it on note cards and he had like, just like downtime. Cause he worked in a factory and so he would just like work his way through. Or maybe it was the book of Hebrews. Now I can't remember. I'm going to ask him.

Courtney Docter (49:43)

Oh, big.

Amanda Bible Williams (49:44)

It's a big difference.

Melissa Krueger (49:45)

It was a big difference.

Rachel Myers (49:46)

But I actually think it may have been Hebrews. I'm going to ask him.

Courtney Docter (49:50)

Wow.

Rachel Myers (49:50)

In any event, he just like, that was just important to him. Like he wanted whole books of the Bible memorized. And I just think that's so cool. I think about the, like the girls that are listening right now or guys, maybe guys too. But, like, some of them may also be being like, why is no one saying psalms? Because, like, there you got your whole prayer book, your songbook. Like, you've got your prayer language. It's all there. So I could also.

Courtney Docter (50:10)

That's true. That would be handy. And why isn't able to, like, Rolodex a song?

Melissa Krueger (50:14)

Can we get a whole testament out of it? That might be. Oh, that'd be tricky, though. Would you go for the newer.

Courtney Docter (50:21)

I know. That's true.

Melissa Krueger (50:24)

Well, thank you guys for being here with us. We really, really appreciate it. It's just been a delight. And thank you, everyone, for listening. We hope you've enjoyed this episode. The Deep Dish from the Gospel Coalition. We hope that this will just make you a little hungrier to go and feast on God's word and do it with a friend, because it's better to feast together.

Melissa Krueger (50:50)

Hey, friends, it's Melissa Krueger here, and I'm so excited that you're listening to the Deep Dish. Wanna stay connected and get even more resources for growing in your faith? We've got a new newsletter for you, and we're so excited about it. When you subscribe, you'll get discussion questions for the Deep Dish episodes, memory verses, updates on what's happening with women's initiatives, as well as some of our favorite staff picks. And these are really fun. So head over to tgc.org women and sign up today. We can't wait to connect with you again. That's TGC.org women.