What Your Teenagers Need from You

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Deep Dish – "What Your Teenagers Need from You"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Deep Dish
• Host/Author: The Gospel Coalition
• Description: The Deep Dish, hosted by Melissa Krueger and Courtney Doctor, invites women into profound conversations about God's deep truths. These discussions, often paired with deep-dish pizza, aim to equip women for richer discipleship and deeper relationships within their communities.
• Episode: What Your Teenagers Need from You
• Release Date: April 3, 2025

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Introduction to the Discussion

In the episode titled "What Your Teenagers Need from You," hosts Melissa Krueger, Ruth Cho Simons, and Sandy Taylor delve into the intricacies of parenting teenagers. The conversation is heartfelt, drawing from personal experiences and professional insights to provide listeners with actionable advice and profound reflections on guiding teens through their formative years.

Family Backgrounds and Current Parenting Seasons

The discussion begins with the hosts sharing their family dynamics and current parenting stages, setting the stage for a relatable and authentic conversation.

• Melissa Krueger introduces herself with two teenage children aged 17 and 20, and mentions an upcoming addition to her family through marriage.

  "I have kids who are 23, 20, and 17. And I'm getting ready to enter a new season because this summer I get another kid in my family who I..." [05:30]

• Sandy Taylor shares her experience as a counselor in New York City and her household with three teenage daughters aged 15, 17, and 19.

  "I have three teenage daughters. One is 19, Abby's 19, Hannah is 17, and Margaret is 15." [02:06]

• Ruth Cho Simons describes her life in western Colorado, parenting six boys with the oldest being 22 years old.

  "I have six boys. My oldest is 22, getting his masters in some kind of fancy engineering thing over in University of Wisconsin, Madison." [02:50]

Principles for Parenting Teens

A significant portion of the conversation centers around foundational principles that guide effective parenting of teenagers. The hosts emphasize the importance of parental influence and modeling behavior.

• Ruth Cho Simons highlights the necessity for parents to be the primary influence in their children's lives, especially in imparting spiritual values.

  "We have to go first as parents. If we want our children to understand the gospel, that we have to, like, confess first, we have to model that first." [07:27]

• Melissa Krueger adds that the principle of obedience remains steadfast, though its application evolves with the teen years.

  "The principle of obeying your parents is still happening, but now the practice of that changes where we have a conversation." [14:55]

Adapting Parenting Practices for Teenage Years

Transitioning from early childhood to adolescence requires a shift in parenting strategies. The hosts discuss how rigid rules give way to more conversational and collaborative approaches.

• Melissa Krueger shares her evolution from enforcing strict rules to engaging in dialogues with her teens.

  "We don't have a lot of discussion about that. It was the practice of that was don't run in the street. And it wasn't like a conversation." [14:55]

• Ruth Cho Simons recounts a pivotal moment when her child questioned the purpose behind certain restrictions, leading to deeper conversations about their interests and values.

  "He was like, why can't I become a professional Minecraft player? It was more like, okay, so let's talk about what you love about Minecraft." [15:27]

• Sandy Taylor emphasizes the role of parents as coaches or thought partners, fostering independence while maintaining guidance.

  "You are still making the decisions, but the approach is different and it's really critical in those teen years." [19:08]

Handling Teen Anxiety and Emotional Turbulence

Anxiety is a prevalent theme in adolescent years, and the hosts provide insights into addressing it constructively.

• Sandy Taylor discusses the rise in anxiety among teens, attributing it to various stressors like school, friendships, and future uncertainties.

  "Seeing a lot of worry, a lot of anxiety and worry about school, worry about friends, worry about we're gonna go go to college." [25:28]

• Ruth Cho Simons advises parents not to fear uncomfortable emotions but to help teens cope effectively.

  "Don't be afraid of uncomfortable emotions. God has never said the goal is happiness." [28:50]

• Sandy Taylor further elaborates on modeling emotional resilience, encouraging parents to manage their own anxieties to set a positive example.

  "We model how to manage our own distressing emotions that come and go." [28:50]

Navigating Technology and Social Media

The impact of technology and social media on teenagers is another critical area of focus, with the hosts sharing strategies to manage digital interactions.

• Melissa Krueger raises concerns about the rapid evolution of technology and its effects on youth, likening it to past societal shifts like smoking.

  "I really do think there's one day will be Surgeon General advisories on social media and on some of these things." [36:38]

• Ruth Cho Simons recommends a gradual approach to technology exposure, emphasizing supervision and open conversations.

  "Go slow and maybe be okay with not going with the flow. Be okay with starting that conversation early." [35:10]

• Sandy Taylor suggests providing devices with limited functionalities initially to ensure that teens maintain real-life connections.

  "You can give your child a phone that has no browser, it has no app. It literally only texts and calls." [35:58]

Reflecting on Parenting Regrets and Growth

Acknowledging and learning from past mistakes is vital for personal growth and improving parent-teen relationships.

• Melissa Krueger shares her realization about the power of kind communication over harsh reprimands.

  "I can actually use a mature tone and say, 'I have asked you to pick up your things, I need you to do it and if it doesn't happen again, there's going to be a consequence.'" [42:09]

• Sandy Taylor reflects on her initial attempts to mold her introverted child into an extrovert, eventually understanding and embracing her child's unique personality.

  "I kept trying to make her extroverted... I need to be prayerful. And how do I need to... What's best for her?" [38:03]

• Ruth Cho Simons discusses the importance of presenting a united front with spouses and avoiding in-front-of-kids criticisms.

  "I regret having been less of a team at times and more of like I'm my team." [40:35]

Encouragement and Final Thoughts

The hosts conclude with uplifting messages, emphasizing grace, relationship-building, and the continuous need for divine guidance in parenting.

• Melissa Krueger encourages parents to lead with relationships rather than rules and to embrace imperfection.

  "God is with you in this parenting journey, and you're not alone." [43:46]

• Sandy Taylor reinforces the importance of fostering safe, loving relationships where teens can turn to adults for support.

  "We want them to know and love Jesus and walk with Jesus." [31:40]

Light-Hearted Closing and Community Engagement

The episode wraps up with a fun interaction about personal interests, strengthening the sense of community and camaraderie among the hosts and listeners.

• Sandy Taylor shares her newfound interest in mobile games as a form of brain break.

  "I have gotten into the wordle and the New York Times connections." [44:39]

• Ruth Cho Simons introduces her latest fascination with mushroom coffee, adding a playful conclusion to the deep conversation.

  "I'm really into, like, mushroom coffee right now." [45:11]

Key Takeaways

1. Modeling Behavior: Parents must lead by example, especially in spiritual and emotional matters, as teens highly observe and emulate their actions.

2. Flexible Practices: Transitioning from strict rule enforcement to engaging dialogues fosters trust and mutual respect, essential for guiding teens.

3. Managing Anxiety: Recognizing and addressing teen anxiety with understanding and support helps them navigate emotional challenges effectively.

4. Technology Balance: Implementing gradual and supervised technology use preserves real-life connections and promotes healthy digital habits.

5. Learning from Regret: Acknowledging past mistakes and striving for better communication techniques strengthens parent-teen relationships.

6. Continuous Support: Emphasizing grace, relationship-building, and divine guidance ensures parents remain resilient and effective in their roles.

Notable Quotes

• Ruth Cho Simons:

  "We have to go first as parents. If we want our children to understand the gospel, that we have to, like, confess first, we have to model that first." [07:27]

• Melissa Krueger:

  "Lead with a conversation, not the rule." [19:17]

• Sandy Taylor:

  "We're always messing up in that regard, because I want my children to adapt to my roles, and I want them to look the way I want them to look versus... that's my own brokenness." [13:02]

• Ruth Cho Simons:

  "What they do is more important than what they do. It's keeping primary things primary." [09:03]

• Sandy Taylor:

  "We need to be there because they want to have conversations on their terms." [22:04]

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Conclusion

In "What Your Teenagers Need from You," The Deep Dish provides a nuanced exploration of parenting teenagers through the lenses of faith, emotional intelligence, and adaptive communication. The hosts' blend of personal anecdotes and professional expertise offers listeners invaluable insights into fostering healthy, spiritually grounded relationships with their teens. By embracing principles of modeling behavior, flexible practices, and continuous support, parents are equipped to navigate the complexities of adolescence with grace and effectiveness.

Transcript

[Melissa Krueger]

Hey, friends, we'd love for you to join us for a live recording of the deep dish at TGC25 in Indianapolis, April 22nd through 24th. Meet new friends and join us as we discuss why Bible study in the local church matters. Register [e-mail] TGC25 we can't wait to see you there again. That's tgc.org TGC25 A lot of times.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Our kids are just ready to ask those hard questions.

[Sandy Taylor]

We're distracted.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

So then our answers are, because that's crazy. And then you just want to move on. But they're like, but why? And so the why actually requires the kind of margin, the intentionality that maybe we didn't factor in.

[Melissa Krueger]

I'm Melissa Krueger, and I'm here today with two real life friends, Ruth Cho Simons and Sandy Taylor. And we're going to be talking about parenting teens, which is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. And I have talked with you both a lot individually. Ruth and I shared a dinner, like a wonderful dinner. That was such a good meal. Yes. The top of all the food, talking about this topic of parenting teens and how to do it, hopefully. Sandy was one of my first readers of the book. Sandy is a trained counselor, works with teens specifically, and I wanted her to read it through to make sure I didn't say anything really off.

[Sandy Taylor]

And I had very few edits. It was excellent.

[Melissa Krueger]

It's so helpful to have people. But you are also both people that when I look at what's going on with your families, I just love what I see in your relationship with your kids. What we all know about parenting teens, we cannot control so much. We cannot control how they turn out. We cannot control if they love Jesus. There's a lot we can't control. But what I see with both of you, that I just respect is how you're entering into these years. So to start, can y'all tell us a little bit about where you are location wise, what your family looks like right now? So, Sandy, we'll start with you.

[Sandy Taylor]

Sure, sure, sure. So I live in New York City, as you know, And I have three teachers, teenage daughters. One is 19, Abby's 19, Hannah is 17, and Margaret is 15. And like you said, I work as a counselor and I see teens and their parents. I see women as well. But. But my specialty is with teenagers. So I just love teens. I think we need to do better by our teens to understand them better.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

We need to say that teen years are wonderful. Right? I love them Do a better job advocating for how good it can be so that it's not coming into, like, what do I need to do to prepare?

[Sandy Taylor]

No, Ruth, when I, when people would find out that I had three daughters in the early years, they would go, oh, boy, boy, I just wait till the teen years.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

I get for boys, too.

[Sandy Taylor]

Well, what's so bad? You know? So, yeah, we need to, we need to reframe that for sure.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Yeah, I love it. Well, we live in western Colorado, like in the mountains and. But it makes sense because I have six boys. My oldest is 22, getting his masters in some kind of fancy engineering thing over in University of Wisconsin, Madison. So he's not home right now. And that's actually. Well, he, he's not gonna be home anymore. Like, that's a weird stage.

[Melissa Krueger]

That has been a hard thing for me.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

That could be another conversation too, because, like, that's a changing season thing. Yes. So he moved out. He's 22. Then we have an almost 20 year old, almost 18 year old, almost 16 year old, 13 and 11. So I do have all teen boys. And I get the same thing though, Sandy, that whole, like, oh, my goodness, oh, teens. How do you even survive it? And I, I kind of just love being able to tell stories of this season because I wasn't always given those stories. Right. Stories of how it can be rich or how it can be better than you expect. So anyway, I'm looking forward to this conversation.

[Sandy Taylor]

Me too.

[Melissa Krueger]

I remember hearing, oh, little children, little problems, big people, big problems. And you're like, I'm sorry. Being thrown up today on Today by a toddler felt like a big problem in my life. It was exhausting. You know, say that I'd feel all this fear and I'm with you guys. I love the teen years. And here's the reality. I have friends who are walking through really hard, really, like, hard things. And I do understand that big problem thing. But I, I love that we can also all say there are some really great things about the teen years. And so I'm in.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Oh, that's why I was going to say I love the title of your book, Parenting with Hope. Because that's the issue. The issue is not, not the three of us are not saying, oh, our children are perfect, things are easy, or parenting teens is just so simple. It's that when you shift your mindset about what parenting teens is about and you know that, it's like, there's hope, there's opportunity. I love the word opportunity because when you realize you're not at the end of a journey. You're just beginning a new version of. That's right.

[Sandy Taylor]

That's right.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

And so there's so much opportunity that you can be like, hey, it matters. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna stay diligent. I'm not gonna let off the gas and be like, oh, I guess they're just gonna turn out the way they turn out. We can. We actually still have opportunity, and we can be hopeful during that.

[Melissa Krueger]

Reason. That's such a good point. I just wanted to say. Cause it's. It's not the end of the journey. I think when we.

[Sandy Taylor]

It's a chapter in the journey.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Right.

[Sandy Taylor]

I think that's how we have to see the whole story of their lives. This is the chapter. Let's understand it. Let's. Let's do the best we can.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah. And it could be a chapter. Whereas if you think it's the end, you parent in fear. And then you do a lot of things that make other chapters really hard.

[Sandy Taylor]

Mm.

[Melissa Krueger]

So true. They're like, all in Sandy's office for years after because we were trying so hard to control every decision they made that they're like, I've gotta get out, you know? Well, I'm in a similar season. I have kids who are 23, 20, and 17. And I'm getting ready to enter a new season because this summer I get another kid in my family who I.

[Sandy Taylor]

Love that I didn't have birth notes.

[Melissa Krueger]

He's coming through marriage, and I'm so excited.

[Sandy Taylor]

Just adding to your quiver.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah, it's pretty great. Like, when he's with us, it feels like this. So it's so fun. And I'm like, how to get extra kids in your family without having to raise them. This is great. So, anyway, so that's where we are. One thing I love about this discussion, we've got you in New York, which somebody. Somebody might say you raised teens in New York.

[Sandy Taylor]

So I get it.

[Melissa Krueger]

Whole nother conversation.

[Sandy Taylor]

How conversation. I'm like, well, it's all I ever knew. Yeah. I grew up in the suburbs in the south, but I've never parented anywhere.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's right. And I'm parenting kind of in this Christianese south that sometimes is muddy, you know, and you're out west. Like, we're all in these different locations. So I'm really excited about this conversation.

[Sandy Taylor]

Thank God, though, right? No matter where we are.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes. And same truth.

[Sandy Taylor]

Same truth.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

That's it.

[Melissa Krueger]

And so. But I do think it's nice for even our listeners to know, like, we're all coming from different places. You're all boys, you're all girls. I've got a little bit of both. So it's just kind of fun. I'm excited about this. So my first question for you both is, when we enter this parenting journey, we all know that there are certain princip that have guided us along the way. So even when you go back to the little years, we have principles that kind of remain fixed. We have practices that change. We'll talk about that in a minute. So what principles? If you were talking to a younger mom, would you look and say, hey, these are really important principles that I would want to pass on to you. Why don't we start with you, Ruth? I don't know if you.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

I think I understand the question correctly because I'm like, I don't want to get it wrong. But an overarching principle for us has always been that we have to go first as parents. So if we want our children to understand the gospel, that we have to, like, confess first, we have to model that first. If we want to tell them about how the Bible's worth reading, well, then they need to witness that. And so along with that, the principle has really been that we're the primary influence in their lives. So then that doesn't change as the practices change. It doesn't change as seasons change. Meaning rather than say, hey, I'm going to take my kids to church and let church do all the. The hard work of, like, discipling them at home, we just do homework or, you know, or we send them to Christian school, and that's the primary influence. Or somehow one summer a week, I mean, once week in summer they go to vbs, and that's somehow they're where they're going to get it. We just said, okay, even if they do all those things, we have to be the primary influence. So I don't does that.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's right. Yeah.

[Sandy Taylor]

You're the example. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

That's been a leading principle for us, for sure.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's good. And that's a hard one.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

It's a hard one because they're watching.

[Melissa Krueger]

Let's just export the examples, like, let other people be it. But no, and I. And I actually think that's one that carries out even more importantly in the teen years.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

Because what I will say is you can maybe fake some things with younger.

[Sandy Taylor]

Kids, but teenagers up when they hit the teen years.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Well, it's so easy to want to hand some, even your teen, a book. And say this wise person wrote this book that will help fix all these issues or answer your hard questions, but nothing.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's right.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

The same as you. Really making the time.

[Sandy Taylor]

That's right. Yeah. And I think I had had that as a thought as well, Ruth. But I also think for us it was one of the main things, was what, what matters. What matters to the Lord. Because I think we can get down like what, what matters to God needs to matter in our home. So does it really matter what they're wearing to preschool or to middle school? Right.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Or, or.

[Sandy Taylor]

And so that's, that's God's word. That's loving him, that's loving others. It's who they become is more important than what they do. It's, it's, it's keeping primary things primary. And that can be really hard. I mean, whatever context you're in, I mean, in New York, it's like you've got to have your child signed up for, you know, 17 activities and you got to go to the right school to get into the right college because if you don't do that, then you're going to blow up or something. I don't know.

[Melissa Krueger]

I mean, the right two year old priesthood.

[Sandy Taylor]

The right two year old. Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

Melissa knows the garden's like ancient, you know.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah. And so, and that's, I mean, every, you know, every context has its, its markers. Right. For what, what is going to make a successful child. And I think we go to the scripture and, and keeping him first. And um, you know, a wise mentor of mine one time said, is this gonna matter in five years? Is this gonna matter in 10 years? And that is a question. We'll probably talk more about this in a little bit. Like that has been a big one for me in the team years, like. Cause you have to be really thoughtful about, am I gonna, am I gonna lean in here? Am I gonna take up friction with my child about this? Because is this really gonna matter in the years ahead? And I think there was a lot of wisdom in that. So.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Yeah.

[Sandy Taylor]

So that's been a principle that whether they've been a toddler or a teen, that has stayed the same.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah. And that's really good too, because when you're focusing on what does God care about? Like, every home is going to have extra house rules. Just meaning we all are going to have ways our family works. Whether it's what time you have to come in, that's clearly extra biblical. Like we're all going to have that. But when you step back and say how many of those am I going to add?

[Sandy Taylor]

Right.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's going to become increasingly important in the teen years, because the kids, if they. If we're always. No, if we're always bringing the rules past what God has said, they're going to get. They're going to, I feel like, start filling one in a box and they're going to start. Yeah, that's when they start pushing out of that box.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

And whereas you want to always say, these are God's rules, those are always followed and even understanding, hey, these are mom and Dad's rules, we maybe can have a conversation about it, which is a little different.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Sandy just said, you know, who they become is more important than what they do. I just love that. And I feel like we should really put a pin on that, because I think when we have that as a foundational principle, then we're really modeling what is important to God. Right.

[Sandy Taylor]

Like our sanctification original point.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

So you go back to the whole, I'm modeling for you, that it's not just whether or not you made the right sacrifices, you did the right things, that I'm modeling for you, that you know, in the same way that God's after your heart, like in our home, we're. We're going to come all the way back to. Even if in our. In our sinfulness, sometimes we get off track or whatever, we always come back to, okay, the. The focus here is who are you becoming in this journey? Not just whether or not your grades show that you did great or that you got these awards or accolades or if you got into the right school. And I think for parents, that is an idol we have to die to every. Because it's just so easy. And this is, I think, what you were alluding to, too, where in parenting, especially with teens, when you're controlling things, a lot of times it's because you're, like, vicariously hoping to, like, live through your child's successes and that. That they'll reflect right on your parenting. And you start, like, tallying up all the ways in which you need to feel good about yourself. And I can't think of a more detrimental thing for them, understanding the heart of God, than when we start applying our own rules, our own pharisaical, like.

[Sandy Taylor]

It'S my kingdom versus thy kingdom. And that. That has been a mantra that I learned the hard way. I mean, you're always. We're always messing up in that regard, because I want my children to adapt to my roles, and I want them to look the way I Want them to look versus. And that's my own brokenness. That's my own idolatry. And I. It's okay. What is God after to your point, Ruth? He's after.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

After.

[Sandy Taylor]

They're hard.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah.

[Sandy Taylor]

And. And we have to keep that in front of us.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah. So. Well, as you've gone on this journey, so we have certain principles that we've held to. Like one of my principles was, you know, in general, we want our kids to obey us. Meaning like, we're going to give rules in our family and we need you to obey. Well, now, when there were two that might look like, hey, you're not allowed to run into the street. So that the, the principle was obey mommy's voice, you know, or whatever. And we didn't have a lot of discussion about that. It was. The practice of that was don't run in the street. And it wasn't like a conversation. As we've moved into the teen years, my practice has had to change. I don't. Same way give certain rules. I mean, some things are more discussion oriented. Like, for instance, what time curfew is going to be sure that, you know, that's clearly a Melissa rule. That's not a God rule, you know, about things. But if I give a curfew, I still expect them to obey it. You know, that's right for them to still obey me. The principle of obeying your parents is still happening, but now the practice of that changes where we have a conversation. So one of the big things with my teens, I would be like, well, you know, we'd have a conversation. I might say, Hey, 11pm Seems reasonable. And if they push back, I'm gonna listen. Whereas, like, running into the street, there was no pushback. There was no, can I please play in the street for 30 minutes? Nope, it was just a no or whatever. How have your practices changed a little bit as you've moved into the teen years?

[Ruth Cho Simons]

I was like smirking and laughing over here when you said, you know, like, kind of like that question of when is the right curfew? You know, I was like, oh, or why can't I become a professional minecrafter? Like, that was an actual legitimate question. I mean, I was like, I've never been asked that before by, yeah, why can't he. It was number four of six. He won. But. But it was really a true question. In his, like, early teen years, he was like, but people are making a real living. Like, yeah, being a professional.

[Sandy Taylor]

Somebody's doing it.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Somebody's doing why? Why? There's a lot of entertainment value. There's a lot of skills involved. And so whereas in the little years, you might just say screen time is this much.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

But then when you're older, even if that screen time is. Has been somewhat. There's boundaries. He might be working some stuff in his head that. Going in a direction that you need to have a discussion about. So it's not just that, hey, these rules apply. It's more like, oh, now you're becoming. It's formational. Like, everything is always formational. But in the teen years, it's starting to work itself out in big questions, like, do I have to go to college? Can't I make videos about people playing Minecraft? That's a real job too, apparently, Melissa. And so, you know, I was laughing, thinking, okay, so that really required me not saying no, because, no, you know, like, I mean, I wanted to be like, in this house, we do not sign up to be professional Minecrafters. Like, it was more like, okay, so let's talk about what you love about Minecraft.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's right.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

What. What do you see? What do you see other people doing and having in their lives? What is so rich about their lives that you think you want that excitement in order? Like, what is it that you want from this? Describe to me what you think that person is doing with their lives. What, What's. You know? And so as you're asking these other questions and you're really saying, I'm so fascinated by Minecraft. Tell me all about it. Then it really changes. Rather than me being so fearful, don't get me wrong, I was fearful. I was like, oh, my goodness, we're about to lose somebody to YouTube.

[Sandy Taylor]

But if you had just shut him down and said, that's the crazy thing, seriously, like, you would have lost him. You know, I mean, what that would have said to him is, you know, you're not taking what he loves seriously and you lose that good working relationship that I think is so critical in the teen years.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

And what I learned, what I learned about that because I had. He was number four. And so I had a few that didn't ask those kinds of questions or didn't try to push my buttons quite so much. But what I learned about number four was that right now he's not obsessed about that anymore. Right now that's not his lifelong. And it wasn't because I told him it was a stupid dream. It was because we kept talking and asking questions. And so he started feeling safe to talk to me about his random ideas. Like, the ideas that really don't make sense probably won't make me proud and might be embarrassing. He was like, let me just try it, see what happens. And because I was more interested in knowing why he thinks that, more interested in his happiness, knowing him, what makes him tick, what is it that he's experiencing. The more he was like, okay, so.

[Sandy Taylor]

I just played that out. Now maybe I can move on. Right.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

So now we have actual conversations about what to do with his life, which he still doesn't know, but it's now conversations that are more fruitful because I established the pattern. Like it's okay to talk about.

[Sandy Taylor]

How old was he, Ruth, when you had that conversation?

[Ruth Cho Simons]

I want to say when we had that conversation, he was 13.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah. And your child at 13 is very different than they are at even 15. Right. I mean, I mean, every year, I mean, a 13 year old, that's like the height of emotionality and they're, you know, it's big feelings. And if you had just shut that down, I mean, the wisdom is, okay, this is going to be ever changing. They're ever changing. Whether it's what they do for a living or, you know, I mean, this could be a million things. So just keeping that, I mean, I think that's the big theme is keeping that is the big difference, I think, between how practices play out is, it's, it's. I'm, I'm grand, you know, I'm control central when they're little. And then when it gets to the teen years, it turns into conversation. You're a coach or you're a thought partner. You're still, we all know we're still making the decisions.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Right.

[Sandy Taylor]

But it's, the approach is different and it's really critical in those teen years.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah. I like to say you lead with a conversation, not the rule.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

It doesn't mean you don't have an internal rule.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yes, that's right.

[Melissa Krueger]

You don't have a place you're trying.

[Sandy Taylor]

To, but you don't play it first. Yeah. It's a backdoor.

[Melissa Krueger]

Whereas a toddler, it's fine to lead with the rule.

[Sandy Taylor]

Right.

[Melissa Krueger]

Don't run in the street.

[Sandy Taylor]

We're also trying to coach them and train them and equip them. We're not, they're going to leave us one day. I mean, they're moving toward independence and autonomy. And we want to raise adults who are capable and they trust the Lord and they know who they are and they know how to grow and they know how to deal with change and uncomfortable and all this stuff and to, to walk with them through that. I, I, I always say lead with relationship, not rule. Like, so that's gotta have the alliteration. But it's, it is very different and you have to fight the fear.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Just one really quick thing about practice, too. I feel like when you have little ones, you can choose when you want them to talk to you. You can be like, this is the time. This is, that's now we're gonna have a conversation and you literally can sit them down. And it's like right then and there, that five, ten minutes is when you're gonna talk about something you can' for teens. And so one of the things that I've had to really learn about practice is I can't, I can't assume that I can squeeze in a really important conversation with my teen in the five minutes between two things we have going on. I actually have to make sure that there's some margin where they perceive that there's nothing else competing for my time and energy if I want something to overflow and come out. So that means, and it doesn't mean that my schedule is always like, I'm just sitting there, like, I'm available anytime you want to talk to me. No, no, I don't want out in the kitchen. I don't want to make it sound like that. I just mean in, I need to change my heart to not assume that all those important conversations are going to happen just because I have time now, just because I got done with my emails, now's the time you're going to talk to me. No, rather I need to be willing to say, hey, I'm going to go take a walk a little later. Do you want to join me? Or I've got nothing going on. On Saturday morning. We could go to breakfast or I'm actually home tonight and I'm going to put away my phone so you don't see, you don't think that I'm sitting there really busy because a lot of times our kids are just ready to ask those hard questions or be like, why can't I be a professional Minecraft?

[Sandy Taylor]

And we're distracted and we're distracted and.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

We can't and we seem to never have time. And so then our answers are, because that's crazy. And then you just want to move on. But they're like, but why? And so the why actually requires the kind of margin and the intentionality that maybe we didn't factor in when the kids were little.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's right. So I think one Principle is teenager parenting still takes time.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Yes.

[Melissa Krueger]

It can look like it doesn't.

[Sandy Taylor]

Well, the danger is, oh, gosh, they can get around on their own, and I don't have to have sitters, and I can go back to work and I can go out with. You know, I can have all this extra time. We still need to be there because they. To your point, Ruth, they want to have conversations on their terms.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes, that's right.

[Sandy Taylor]

They've been at meetings all day in school, in class, with the coach or whoever, and they're at the dinner table. That's the meeting they showed up for. That they're not. That they didn't schedule themselves. And they want that autonomy. They want to do things on their terms. We have to be there, and we have to be available, and it's not going to always work. But I think that is a myth. It's like, okay, they don't really need. Because it's funny, in some ways, you think, okay, I'm here and nobody wants to spend time with me, but then all of a sudden they do. And so you just have to be available.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

And it's also a myth to think that if you ask them a question and they grunt or they don't have a real big answer for you, that they're done. Like, they're not interested. Usually it means that you plant a seed and then you go do something and don't multitask and try to talk to your friends while you're doing it, and they'll wander in. And most of the conversations I've had with my teens happen where we have the. The beginning point of a conversation earlier in the day, and they don't say much about it. But then later on, I might be doing folding laundry or I might be packing for a trip. They wander in, they sit on the edge of your bed, and then they're like, you know, I was thinking about what you asked earlier, and then that opens up, right?

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

YouTube always.

[Sandy Taylor]

Right before.

[Melissa Krueger]

Oh, yeah. Especially with boys.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

I don't always. Right before bed.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah. I mean, I just feel like with boys especially, it's a little different. My girls. Just my girls. It could be different with other people's girls. They're ready to talk more.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

More, Right. That's true.

[Melissa Krueger]

More options for them.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

But with my boy, I feel like I really have to be on his terms because I get a lot of the grunting with the first. The first go of questions.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

So we are so grateful for our sponsor, Crossway. They produce such amazing resources for the church. And one of the ones we want to highlight today is New Morning Mercies for Teens, a daily gospel devotional. So this is an updated edition of Paul David Tripp's bestselling book, New Morning Mercies, and it features 366 daily devotions, but adapted for, for teenagers. And so this is a great resource for the teens in your life. Melissa, tell us a little bit more about this.

I actually gave this resource to my daughter Kate, and she has enjoyed it. It's really helpful. I think teens are at such a great age to get a devotional. It helps them get into the habit of being in their Bible every day. And what I love that they've done in this edition, there's some bonus kind of answers and questions about relevant topics, including anxiety, social media, spiritual discipline. So it's a great resource for teens. And I just encourage you, if you've got a teen in your life, there's no better habit to help them form than being in God's word each day. And I think devotionals are just a wonderful way to help get our kids in God's word.

And Paul Tripp just does such a great job of explaining, explaining the depths of the gospel in such accessible ways that it's just ideal for teens. It's ideal for me, but definitely great for our teens too. So pick up a copy of New Morning Mercies for Teens wherever books are sold or visit Crossway.org Sandy, you counsel.

A lot of teens. What are you seeing in your office on a regular basis and how would you encourage parents? So, you know, you're seeing probably some trends and what encouragement can you give to parents about some of the trends that you're seeing?

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah. So seeing a lot of worry, a lot of anxiety and worry about school, worry about friends, worry about we're gonna go go to college. Worry, worry about faith and differing opinions than their, than they have, you know, that differ with their parents, worry about the worry. So there is a lot of anxiety out there. And you know, I think anxiety's gotten a bad rap because anxiety is one of the things I talk to teens and parents about is like, it actually is a God given good system that's telling us something, right? It can protect us. It can, it can warn us about an unhealthy relationship. If my girls would be like, I'm so anxious about this test. I'm like, have you studied yet? And they're like, no. I'm like, well, when you, that's anxiety being your friend telling you those stuff for the test. Ellie. So we have to. So there's a lot we can, we're great at treating anxiety. Like that's the good news for parents. Now there is unhealthy anxiety when you've got the bells going off and the heart rate up and there's no threat or it's really out of proportion. But we're really, really good at helping teens with that. And the thing I would say just encouragement for parents. The two things. One is don't be afraid of uncomfortable emotions. I think that we've really, we're afraid of feeling sad or uncomfortable. We're afraid of being unhappy. And we know the Bible's never said, God has never said the goal is happiness, right? And that's gonna be part of the landscape of life, of adolescence, of adult. I mean life is hard, God is good. And so I think not being afraid of uncomfortable emotions. But you know, are our teens handling them well? Are they coping with them effectively? Because that's just gonna be part of the teen years. You know, they have these, these really, their brain renovates in the teen years. And so the first thing to renovate is that emotional center. And so they've got all the big feels and not a lot of perspective, like a comparatively weak perspective center. And so it can, it can feel really scary, but it's, that's normal. Like, that's typical. And so I think parents can be really afraid of that. So we have to, and we have to embrace them for ourselves as well. You know, you, a lot of anxious teens have anxious parents. You know, to your original point in the conversation, Ruth, it's we model, like how do we, how do we manage our own distressing emotions that come and go? So that I think is a really hopeful encouragement. The other thing I would say is, and this has been the theme of the conversation so far is all of the research, like the, all the psychological research show, shows that the single most important force for good, obviously, aside from the Holy Spirit, we know that it's God that is ultimate, but is one really good working relationship, relationship with a loving or caring adult. And it makes all the sense in the world. How do we grow in our faith? We grow in the context of a safe, loving, grace based relationship with Christ. Right? That's the context where we can fumble and make mistakes and ask for forgiveness and, and take risks and all the like. And so the key is a working relationship. So if we shut our teens down, if we are not there to listen, if, if they feel like we're not safe or they can't trust Us, That's. That's when we worry. So. So protect the relationship. And it doesn't mean you give them everything you want, but you have conversations, you. You treat them like they're the neighbor that they are. And. And yeah, so I would say relationships and not be. Not being afraid of emotions. That makes sense.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Can I throw in there that most of the time, generally speaking, when you're about in the teen years is also when, as mamas, your body's changing too? Yeah, I mean, we keep talking about this, I mean, but, like, I wasn't totally ready for the way I was going to have big emotions and not a lot of this or whatever, you know, like, I'm laughing through, looking at you, like, describe, like, not a lot of processes and a lot of, like, emotions. And I'm going, yeah, I'm kind of returning to a little bit of that. I don't know if I'm thinking with this or back here right now, you know, so there's some big feelings. There's a lot of changing seasons. My kids are 11 years apart, so I'm like, watching the little people still grow up while trying to parent and adult, you know, and. And all that. So I think there's a. There's room to, one give a little grace for yourself, even recognizing, like, you're going through a lot of changes, too. But also to your point being being diligent to, like, preach to your own heart in anxious times. Right. Because we don't want to inadvertently be passing on all this anxiety that really just needs to be processed through meeting with a good counselor or sharing with our spouse or really spending time with the Lord and really going, okay, Lord, I have anxious thoughts, and I'm not going to just put it all on my teen child while they're going through stuff too, you know, So I need to spend some time on that.

[Sandy Taylor]

I think you wrote about this in the book, but there's, you know, when our children were little and they, I don't know, they fell and scraped their knee and they look at you because they're not. I mean, they're probably upset or crying, but they're looking at you for how big of a deal is this? It's the same thing in the teen years. And I talk to parents about having a not shocked face. I'm like, it doesn't matter what comes out of their mouth. Just go, okay.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Y. I love it.

[Sandy Taylor]

Okay.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yep.

[Sandy Taylor]

Okay. And, you know, what we're doing is we're saying, I can handle that.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes.

[Sandy Taylor]

Doesn't matter how bad you. Whatever you tell me, yes, I've got you. And you may get grounded. You might. I mean, who knows what's going to happen? Or we might need to get extra support, but I can handle it, which means I'm going to help you figure out how to handle it. It's so important.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah, but if they see us, like, if. If we hear a friendship problem.

[Sandy Taylor]

Right.

[Melissa Krueger]

And we're now trying to solve it behind the scenes, like, you didn't get invited to the party. I mean, they're going to shut down and never tell you again.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Right?

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah.

[Sandy Taylor]

Because that's losing the good working relationship.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes.

[Sandy Taylor]

And that's why we have to fight to keep that.

[Melissa Krueger]

Because we can't solve their issues.

[Sandy Taylor]

No.

[Melissa Krueger]

We walk through their issues with them.

[Sandy Taylor]

That's right.

[Melissa Krueger]

Like, my goal is not to kind of clear the way so you never have hardship, but to say, I'm going to be with you. Because what we're doing is modeling what God promises us.

[Sandy Taylor]

James 1. It's the testing of our faith that develops perseverance. Perseverance, like, to maturity and completion. And so we don't want to subvert that. We want to foster that. We want to allow our teens to have opportunities to have. To turn to the Lord. Right. To grow in their own. Which is what ultimately we all want. We want them to know and love Jesus and walk with Jesus. And so it's. It's not. It's not easy.

[Melissa Krueger]

It's not easy.

[Sandy Taylor]

You know, that's why we need each other.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes. And that's why we're still walking with the Lord in the midst of all this.

[Sandy Taylor]

That's right.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah. I mean, we don't graduate from our need of God in the parenting years.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

You know how we role play when the kids are really little? We role play. Like, how to reconcile.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

I wonder if the three of us need to role play and, like, practice the no emotion phase. Yeah, say that. Say this craziest thing to me. I'm gonna work on it, you know?

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

It's actually not a bad practice. I. I feel like women's ministry helped me do that. You know when you're sitting across from people and you're like, I'm just gonna act like what she told me was the most normal thing ever, because I don't want to make her feel unsafe telling me this.

[Sandy Taylor]

Oh, I. I had a. Yeah. In my clinical training, I had one of my professors say, you need to be able to say the word suicide the same way you say hamburger. Like, we just need to not. We need not to make suicide or, you know, and just the way that we. And again, it's because whoever the person is before you that's suffering and we're talking about our teens, it's just really utterly critical that we say, all right, I've gotcha. Yeah, we can handle this.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah, that's right. That's right. We don't have a lot of time left, but I do want to. I have two more questions for you. The first is technology. So this is. This is something in our generation that's really different of parenting that we. We don't have 20 years of research on social media and its impact on kids. And so, you know, smartphones and their impacts on kids. It really is a very different world. Our kids are growing up. I mean, like, if we wanted to find out information, we had to go to encyclopedias.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Yeah.

[Melissa Krueger]

Like, those are gone. Right. Because now there's Google. Yeah. I mean, Alexa, you're just finding out your information at the drop of a hat. You get it so quickly. So our kids have access to tons of information. They have access to tons of other people like never before. What wisdom do you have, you know, in a. Yeah. Sound bite that we can give on how do we deal with technology, with what we know today? What's some. What are some guiding principles you would offer about technology?

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Their desire for it will not decrease with more usage. So, like, giving them access to something, it's not like you can put it back in the box. And so it's always served. It's go slow. I think one of the things that we've always just done as a family is, you know, they start with an iPad that they can use at the kitchen table. They're not up in their bedrooms. They're not by themselves. They're not carrying it in their pockets because it's an iPad and it's not social media, and it's. And, hey, mama, can I search on how to build forts? Well, one time I helped them search on it, and it did click over to something really inappropriate. So, like, they are targeting our kids, but then he's right there with us. You know, it's like using laptop. And then when they get old enough to. And for us, it's usually when they're starting to sleep over at somebody's house or start driving or that's when they start having a personal mobile device. And none of our. None of our kids. And I'm not saying this as rules, I'm saying this as testimony. None of our kids are on social media, except when they are an adult and. And even the adult doesn't really want to be on it anymore because I think they're starting to see that it's not bringing them any good and stuff. So I think just go slow. As a principal, go slow and maybe be okay with not going with the flow. Be okay with starting that conversation early and saying, hey, we don't need to do it just like everybody else.

[Sandy Taylor]

That's right. And the other thing you can do because, I mean, the counselor in me kind of when. If I put my counselor hat on. Our teens need friends. And middle school is huge. Right. And what's happening is everybody's getting digital technology in middle school. You can give your child a phone that has no browser, it has no app. It literally only texts and calls, text and talks. So, like, our children are taking mass transit in New York in middle school. So I need to be able to get a hold of Matt a lot different. Right. And they also. I'm not making plans for my seventh grader. They're making it on a text chat. So it's kind of like only as much as they need to stay in touch with their real life friends, because that's. We want the real life friends. That's been something that. Yeah. Wait as long as possible, if not forever, but then also they just need to be able to connect with their real life friends.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's right.

[Sandy Taylor]

So that's worked for us.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah. I think. I think society will move along on this. I have a big belief. The high school I went to had inner courtyards where people used to be allowed in high school to smoke until. What did we find out? Smoking causes cancer. And now, of course, no one was allowed to smoke. By the time I got to high school, it was not allowed for smoking courtyard anymore. And I really do think there one day will be surgeon general advisories on social media and on some of these things. So I think we're in this uncomfortable space where it hasn't caught up to what. What the research is.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah. It's pretty much a mixed bag right now. If you really go out there and read and don't just read one resource. It's. It's mixed for sure.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah. And so it'll be interesting when we get that data in.

[Sandy Taylor]

It's too soon to see.

[Melissa Krueger]

Okay. What impact is this having on people? And so in that, in between, you know, this is where I think one again having the conversations, why do you want a cell phone? Why is it important? Because there could be different reasons. And so, and it could be social. Like, I just want to be able to text with my friends.

[Sandy Taylor]

Right.

[Melissa Krueger]

Then you can get the text and talk.

[Sandy Taylor]

Right then. Then that. That makes sense. And then, you know, also I've talked to my girls about the algorithms. You know, like you just hover. Somebody sent me a golden retriever video the other day. And I mean, all of a sudden all I had and I was like, whoa, you get a, you get a 14 year old who wants to get fit for soccer practice, you know, for soccer tryouts, and next thing. And she searches that the minute you search. Okay, but here's the great thing about teens and this. I know we need to move on. If you talk to like a 13, 14, 15 year old about that and tell them basically how they're being manipulated by the algorithms, it'll make them mad. And it, I mean, there are lots of ways to talk to your teens about this that I think are really good. Coaching and training and equipping for life.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes. So anyway, because I do think this is a season where we can't just restrict because they're getting ready to go into the world. So you need to be helping train their brain.

[Sandy Taylor]

How do you think about this?

[Melissa Krueger]

How do you think about it?

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Sharing those facts in a factual, non emotional face.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah. Like, what do you think about that? Right, yeah.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Versus a mom that's like, like panicky and scared and wanting to like, control everything. Then they turn off, you know, so.

[Sandy Taylor]

They go underground and they do it somebody else's house, like working relationship.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's right. That's right. So all of these. All of these things. Okay, this is kind of a hard question as you look back on parenting. Are there any regrets? None. None. Right. I mean, like, are there.

[Sandy Taylor]

I did it perfectly. Melissa, are there any things you do.

[Melissa Krueger]

Look back though, and say, wow, if I could tell my younger self, hey, just let that go. Or, you know, just don't take that so seriously. Or are there any things.

[Sandy Taylor]

Yeah, I was mentioning this to you before. I have. My first child is very different than me. And you don't really know that. Like in the very. Like you're sort of figuring that out when they're a toddler. She's super introverted. She's such a great kid. I've learned so much from her, but I thought God was gonna give me a child just like me. Right. And so I kept trying to make her extroverted. I would take her to all these social things and. And finally I realized I've got a parent. The child that's in front of me that God is. Which means I need to slow down, I need to be prayerful. And how do I need to. What approach? What does she need? What's best for her? How do I encourage her gifts and her wiring and all of that. And I God love her. I still to this day apologize. I'm so sorry I kept making you go to all these really social things all the time. So I do have regrets. It was again parenting for my kingdom and I don't. I wasn't intending to harm her in any way, but I. It must have been tough for her so that I do have that regret. I wish I'd slowed down and really kind of understood that better.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Gosh, so many regrets. Not, you know, not so many like I can think of exact. It's more like my. I regret having a weak like attitude towards like anger anger when I know that I know lashing out doesn't help. Right. But now that I'm a little older, I'm like, wow, that was not a lot of self control. Right. So I. I can't think of one time where I actually got the actual results I was hoping for because I lashed out. But I think the one that I would want to draw attention to specifically and it's pretty vulnerable, I guess just even share it because you know, we do share a lot of our story on social media and stuff. And I am so great. Troy and I are good parents together, but we are very different. And I think a lot of times husbands and wives are a little different.

[Sandy Taylor]

Such a great point.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

And it's so easy to. I would say, oh, regret that I would have is to. When I've not used the self control to not analyze my husband's parenting or my husband's attitude in front of my kids. I'm not speaking really ill of him. I'm not necessarily pitting them again, not in. Not bad enough like that, but I'm in some way analyzing and critiquing something so that I could ultimately seem like the wise one. And I've never ever. There's no fruit from that. There's no good fruit from that. And so I regret having been less of a teams at times and more of like. Like I'm my team, you know, and so that's. That would be a regret is now I look back and want to tell my younger self, you don't parent alone, you know, and if you're a single parent and you're not, you know, you're not married, then there is somebody in your life that you need to lean on and so you don't need to carry everything by yourself and make yourself to be the strongest and the best, that you can welcome somebody else and somebody else's like healthy contribution in your life and not put them down or not criticize or critique them just because you're struggling, you know. And so yeah, that's a great something.

[Melissa Krueger]

You said at the beginning of that about anger. One thing that this light bulb moment for me was it's his kindness that leads to repentance. But I think sometimes I parented as though my harshness would lead to repentance.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Exactly.

[Melissa Krueger]

So if I was, hey, why are these on the floor? Whereas I can actually use a mature tone and say, hey, I, you know, I have asked you to pick up your things, I need you to do it and if it doesn't happen again, there's going to be a consequence. Like I can say that in a nice way and still mean what I say. But I think sometimes in the teen years it's tempting to use a harsh tone to correct. And I was like, that's on me. Yeah, my tone is on me.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Yes, that's right.

[Melissa Krueger]

You know, and my choice of being impatient or unkind, that's not godly. That's not a godly way to discipline. You know, I need to find right ways to, to kind of help them see the right path versus thinking, oh, if I'm just short tempered with them, then they'll figure out what they're supposed to do. That's not how God parents us. He's kind to us to draw us in. And that was one of those moments was, huh? I can actually really just be kind and still have expectations of my team.

[Sandy Taylor]

Right. Well you talk about that in your book and all the research shows that it's firmness and warmth. Right. It's, it's having high expectations, wanting our, expecting our children to be the best version of themselves, who God's calling them to be while being warm in relationship. Yes. And that's the secret sauce, I think.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes. Well, this has been such a good discussion. We would all say we are not perfect parents.

[Sandy Taylor]

Oh my word.

[Melissa Krueger]

I would say one of the biggest ways to lead is in repentance with our kids. As you mentioned earlier, Ruth, like being good apologizers is a really good example and maybe in the teen years even more so.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Absolutely.

[Melissa Krueger]

And that's, that's a wonderful thing because we are sinners, parenting sinners. And so what we actually one of our jobs is to teach them how to what do we do with the sin problem? And we're all managing that as well. And thankfully, we have a God who gives us so much grace. So I think we would want to say to everyone listening, God is with you in this parenting journey, and you're not alone. You may feel alone. You may feel like your kid is dealing with things that no one else is dealing with. And I think that's really true of the parent parenting in the teen years. But God is with you, and he can give you what you need. Well, one thing. This is the deep dish because of Courtney and I's love of deep dish pizza. So I do want to ask one fun question before we leave. What's something that you're loving right now? Because, like, I'm very excited because tonight we are going to share some deep dish pizza. What's something in your life? Just a fun thing that you're loving.

[Sandy Taylor]

Okay, this is really shallow. I have gotten into, like, the wordle and the New York Times connections. Yes. Okay. I've never done games on my phone ever, but I have a client who's like, you need to do that. Because we talk about brain breaks and restoration and there's a place for that. Just short kind of. And now I'm like. But now I need, like, self control because I'm. No, you've done. You've done your two. No more.

[Melissa Krueger]

Sandy, have you done strands yet? That's. The new ones are all strands.

[Sandy Taylor]

Okay. I'll have to add that to what I love.

[Melissa Krueger]

It's so good.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

I'm really into, like, mushroom coffee right now. I know it's. I don't even.

[Melissa Krueger]

Tell us about this.

[Sandy Taylor]

I have never heard of that. Mushroom coffee.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Like, literally mushroom have, like, powdered mushroom. Like, you have, like, mushroom. It's, like, supposed to be good for you.

[Sandy Taylor]

Does it taste good?

[Ruth Cho Simons]

I kind of like it. I mean, it's got, like, a dark, earthy flavor to it, and I like stuff like that. So I'm kind of into it right now.

[Sandy Taylor]

So where do you get it?

[Ruth Cho Simons]

They. It's. It's like matcha powder almost.

[Sandy Taylor]

Okay, got it, Got it. So you, like, put some in there. Okay. Okay.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Because there's, like, all sorts of, like, mushroom. All sorts of.

[Sandy Taylor]

It's supposed to be good for you. Yeah.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

So, yeah.

[Sandy Taylor]

Oh, that's fun.

[Melissa Krueger]

That's really fun.

[Ruth Cho Simons]

Well, if it makes a difference with anything, keep us posted.

[Melissa Krueger]

Well, thanks for joining us for this episode of the Deep Dish. I've loved talking with you both. And what we always want to encourage is to have deep conversations in your real life. So we're glad you joined us for this one. But I know there are real women out there who would love to sit around a table with you who are listening and join in to have a deep conversation with real friends in real life. But thanks for joining us. Hey, friends, it's Melissa Krueger here, and I'm so excited that you're listening to the Deep Dish. Wanna stay connected and get even more resources for growing in your faith? We've got a new newsletter for you, and we're so excited about it. When you subscribe, you'll get discussion questions for the Deep Dish episodes, memory verses, updates on what's happening with women's initiatives, as well as some of our favorite staff picks. And these are really fun. So head over to tgc.org women and sign up today. We can't wait to connect with you again. That's TGC.org women.