Work Well with All Types of People

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Deep Dish – Episode: "Work Well with All Types of People"

Introduction In the April 17, 2025 episode of The Deep Dish, hosted by Melissa Krueger and Courtney Docter of The Gospel Coalition (TGC), the discussion centers around fostering effective teamwork through understanding individual working styles. Joined by their colleague Ann from West Rate, the hosts delve into the concept of the Working Genius assessment—a tool designed to identify personal strengths and frustrations in a work environment. This episode, rich with personal anecdotes and biblical insights, offers listeners practical strategies for enhancing collaboration in various facets of life, including professional settings, church activities, and family dynamics.

Understanding the Working Genius Assessment

Introduction to the Assessment Ann opens the conversation by introducing the Working Genius assessment, emphasizing its distinction from traditional personality tests. “[...] it’s explaining, hey, this is how you work. So it’s not really a personality assessment. It’s explaining, hey, this when it comes to the work you do” ([04:26]). The assessment categorizes individuals into six types of genius—Wonder, Invention, Discernment, Galvanizing, Enablement, and Tenacity—collectively forming the acronym WIDGET.

Breakdown of the WIDGET Model Courtney elaborates on the two primary categories within the model:

• WIDGET Origins (W, I, D):

  • Wonder (W): Individuals who question the status quo, seeking understanding and improvement.
  • Invention (I): Creative thinkers who generate innovative ideas and solutions.
  • Discernment (D): Those who evaluate ideas for their viability and alignment with goals.

• WIDGET Executors (G, E, T):

  • Galvanizing (G): Motivators who energize and rally others around ideas.
  • Enablement (E): Supporters who provide the necessary structure and assistance to implement ideas.
  • Tenacity (T): Perfectionists who ensure tasks are completed thoroughly and efficiently.

Ann adds, “We all have two, what they call geniuses, which I love that [...] two competencies and then two frustrations” ([08:16]). This dual recognition of strengths and frustrations allows for a balanced understanding of team dynamics.

Personal Reflections and Team Dynamics

Identifying Strengths and Frustrations Ann shares her insights into how recognizing frustrations—rather than labeling them as weaknesses—can foster a more supportive environment. She reflects, “Working frustrations are galvanizing and tenacity. Well, here’s the reality. To write a book or to do a project like that, you have to have a lot of tenacity” ([09:02]). This perspective encourages embracing one’s limitations while leveraging strengths effectively.

Biblical Integration The hosts integrate biblical principles, referencing Paul’s teachings in Romans 12 about the diversity of gifts within the body of Christ. Ann states, “We all have gifts, but none of us have all the gifts” ([19:45]). This theological framework underscores the necessity of varied talents working in harmony to fulfill a collective mission.

Application in Various Life Contexts

Professional Environment Courtney discusses how the assessment has transformed their approach to teamwork at TGC. By understanding each member’s strengths, they can delegate tasks more effectively, enhancing both productivity and job satisfaction. For instance, Melissa’s inventive spirit complements Courtney’s ability to galvanize, creating a balanced workflow.

Family and Parenting Ann relates the Working Genius model to motherhood, highlighting how different seasons of parenting require different strengths. “The young years of parenting require a lot of galvanizing and a lot of tenacity” ([15:29]). This insight helps in appreciating the diverse roles that contribute to a harmonious family life.

Church and Community Involvement The conversation emphasizes the importance of stewarding one’s gifts within the church community. Courtney remarks, “If we’re not using our gifts in our local church, like, that’s where they’re for” ([33:10]). This dedication ensures that the church functions effectively as a unified body, each member contributing their unique talents.

Stewardship of Gifts

Active Stewardship Ann poses a critical question on how to steward one’s gifts: “What has it looked like in your life to steward the gifts that God’s given?” ([32:35]). The discussion highlights that stewardship is an active, ongoing process that involves both personal commitment and collective encouragement.

Encouraging Others Courtney emphasizes the role of recognizing and affirming others’ gifts: “Recognizing others gifts and pointing that out and telling them that and saying that to them” ([22:19]). This practice not only strengthens individual members but also fortifies the entire community.

Biblical Foundation

Romans 12: Diverse Yet Unified Ann refers to Romans 12:4-5, reinforcing the idea that “we are one body in Christ,” with each member playing a distinct role. This scriptural backing provides a profound theological basis for appreciating and utilizing diverse gifts within the community.

Practical Takeaways

1. Identify Your Genius: Utilize the Working Genius assessment to understand your strengths and frustrations.
2. Embrace Diversity: Appreciate and leverage the varied talents within your team, family, or church.
3. Encourage and Affirm: Actively recognize and affirm the gifts of others to foster a supportive environment.
4. Biblical Integration: Anchor your understanding of teamwork and stewardship in biblical principles to enhance spiritual growth and community cohesion.

Notable Quotes

• Courtney Docter [06:13]: “W is for Wonder... and I is for Invention. [...] We call them kind of the originators.”
• Ann [09:02]: “Working frustrations are galvanizing and tenacity. Well, here’s the reality. To write a book or to do a project like that, you have to have a lot of tenacity.”
• Courtney Docter [22:19]: “Recognizing others gifts and pointing that out and telling them that and saying that to them.”
• Ann [19:45]: “We all have gifts, but none of us have all the gifts.”

Conclusion

The episode "Work Well with All Types of People" of The Deep Dish offers a comprehensive exploration of the Working Genius assessment as a tool for enhancing teamwork and personal growth. By acknowledging and embracing individual strengths and frustrations, listeners are encouraged to foster environments—be it in professional settings, family, or church—where diverse gifts are recognized and effectively utilized. Anchored in biblical teachings, the discussion underscores the importance of collective effort and mutual support in fulfilling God’s purpose. As Melissa aptly concludes, “He will get you there. And he. You have gifts. The church needs you. And what a wonderful thing.” ([35:56])

Additional Resources For those interested in exploring the Working Genius assessment or subscribing to The Deep Dish, visit tgc.org/women for more information and resources.

Transcript

[Melissa Krueger]

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[Courtney Docter]

Like owning and recognizing your gifts, but recognizing others gifts and pointing that out and telling them that and saying that to them. Because that's an encouragement and it's showing a humility of I need you. Not like so focused on you need me.

[Ann]

Hey friends.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Hey, we're here.

[Ann]

It's the deep dish where we like having deep conversations about deep truths. Preferably over deep dish pizza.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Every time.

[Ann]

Every time. I'm here. I'm Melissa Krueger. I'm here with Courtney Docter and today we are with our colleague and West Rate and we're going to be talking about the working genius and how we work together because everyone wants to understand that how we all work together. Exactly because it's a little bit of a miracle. But before we jump into work, Ann, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do for TGC, and what it's like to work with us?

[Courtney Docter]

Oh, I can tell that, actually. Well, I'm married to my husband Ben. We have three sweet little boys, so that's a big part of my life. But for tgc, I get to technically am the director of events, so I get to oversee the conferences and help make sure those happens. But in reality, what my job looks like is keeping you two on task. Because so often we just get talking with all these great ideas and things. I'm like, hey, hey, hey. Like, we have to do something with these ideas, like, bring it back in. But that's what's so fun about it is, you know, just working with you, too.

[Unnamed Colleague]

They don't pay you enough.

[Courtney Docter]

That is true.

[Ann]

She has to bring all of her mothering skills to basically.

[Courtney Docter]

I do sometimes feel like you're my.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Teacher and like, I feel like you're raising okay.

[Courtney Docter]

Like, do you see the time?

[Unnamed Colleague]

I know, maybe. Yeah, I know. It's true. It's true. You're the most mature of the best. Sad.

[Ann]

There's still hope for us. We can change and grow.

[Unnamed Colleague]

And helping us grow. She's helping us.

[Ann]

Well, today, what we're going to talk about is a working genius assessment. Now, people may have never heard of that. That's totally fine. We're going to kind of go through it. But this is something that was pretty revolutionary for our team. We all took this test so you can go online and actually take this assessment. It's really quick. Didn't take long. I don't think it took long. And what was so helpful about it was we started, you know, you get your report back and it tells you this is how you work. So it's not really a personality assessment. It's explaining, hey, this when it comes to the work you do. And this isn't just professional work.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Exactly.

[Ann]

I mean this because I've realized it actually really applied to my motherhood too. It totally applies to our work together, but it also applies to, like, your volunteer work at the church or your volunteer work and wherever you're doing it. So it applies in all these spaces, even. I've seen it a little bit in my marriage.

[Courtney Docter]

Oh, I've definitely seen it in my life.

[Ann]

You're that way, you know, and so it's one of those things that's a helpful tool. It's not to com constrain us to say you can only be this way. But what I really love is what it added to our team, even as we learn to appreciate what each other brings to the table and how we work. And so let's just take five minutes to kind of discuss what. What the categories are. So it's basically this word widget. These are the letters we go by is widget. So we'll be talking about W, I, D, G, E, T. Nice.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Very well done. Very well done.

[Ann]

Yo, that was the hardest part of this podcast. We're done. You're genuinely proud of me. Okay. Okay, thanks.

[Courtney Docter]

I wrote it down just in case.

[Ann]

So the first half, the wids tend to be the. Where ideas originate in work. So we call them kind of the originators. This is. This is Melissa's labeling. Not. Not the people who run Working Genius. And then the second half, the. What is it?

[Courtney Docter]

The executor.

[Unnamed Colleague]

G. G. Yeah.

[Ann]

I can't separate it and still spell it. So whatever. The last half of the word, those tend to be the executors of the ideas. So there's two sides. Can you start us with the originators, the WIDs? Who are they? What do they do? Tell us about them.

[Courtney Docter]

Yeah. So the first one is W. That stands for wonder and wonder. They're the people who look at the world and say, why is it like this? They're very curious. They want to understand. Understand, like, how things work. And is that really the right way it should work? I. Then we get to the inventors. They're the ones whom. I think Melissa's doing the happy dance. That's one of hers. They come up with all the ideas and they're just like, oh, I know how this could be better. You could do this. You could do this. You could do this, or you could do this. We definitely get that from Melissa a lot.

[Ann]

I drive them crazy.

[Courtney Docter]

It's great. And then D is the discerner. They're the ones who, okay, the Wanderer came up with this, like, problem to solve. The. The ideator, the inventor came up with the idea. And then the discerner's like, is that a good idea? Is that the right thing to do? Because there's all these ideas. We can't do them all. They see patterns, they're more intuitive. And so that's kind of.

[Ann]

They.

[Courtney Docter]

They go back and forth a lot and just figure out, what do we want to do? What is the idea that we're originating.

[Ann]

Yep.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah. And then the last three or so, what did you call them? Not the implementers, but the.

[Ann]

Executors. Well, that sounds like you're killing something.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Oh, that's true. You' it says, okay, implementers. So those three are going to be the last three letters, which are G, E, T. So G is galvanizer. They're the ones who are like, okay, that was a good idea. Like, it was, it was an idea. It was a good idea. Let's go. We're going to get excited about this. We're going to rally the troops. It's really one of the best to have. Everybody needs a galvanizer. And then the enablers are the ones not like the bad kind of enabling. It's the good kind of enabling and enabling.

[Ann]

The.

[Unnamed Colleague]

An enabling where it's like, hey, I'm going to provide the structure that you need to get this thing done. And then tenacity is the last one. And they're the ones who are like, I'm going to see this all the way through. And the greatest thing that can happen in my life is to check it off. Like, it's. I'm done with it. So that's tenacity. The people that just want to get it done.

[Courtney Docter]

I'm going to write something I already did on the list so I can.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Cross back and cross it off. And so in these six things, everybody has two, what they call geniuses, which I love that. Right, right. We all have two geniuses, two competencies and then two frustrations. And it just, like you said, it's just a tool. It is one way of helping understand where you what your part is in a team or in producing something or really in working together in any way. And it was, it was so helpful because one of my frustrations was invention ideating. And I didn't know why. Like a blank page just drove me, you know, I felt dumb. And then anyway, so it was super, super helpful. So two geniuses, two competencies, and two frustrations.

[Ann]

Yeah. And what I loved I what was most helpful for me was actually learning about the frustrations. And I like that they call it frustration, not weakness. And that's not just like everyone gets a trophy. We don't want to say anything hard to anyone because my working frustrations are galvanizing in tenacity. Well, here's the reality. To write a book or to do a project like that, you have to have a lot of tenacity. But by the time I get to the end of that project, I'm worn out, I'm exhausted. It's where the wheels on the track are going slowly. It doesn't mean we don't do those things.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right. So we all have an idea every now and then.

[Ann]

But we all kind of have to do everything in our life. It doesn't. It's not saying, oh, you're not tenacious, so we'll see. You don't have to take the trash.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Out at night, right?

[Ann]

No, but the difference.

[Unnamed Colleague]

I think you said it so well, is because, like, when I get to the end of a project, I'm energized. Like, this thing is done, and I get to check it off. And I am so excited about that. I'm not worn out by that.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Anyway.

[Ann]

And I'm, like, worn out by brushing my teeth. I'm like, I gotta do this again.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Please do it again every day.

[Ann]

It's my tenacity to do this.

[Courtney Docter]

So then, Courtney, what's the difference between having a working frustration versus having a weakness?

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah. Well, I think it's kind of what she's saying. Like, we all have to do them, and they're just places of frustrations where. So my frustrations, I. My working genius is really interesting because I'm my. The first two are frustrations, the middle two are my geniuses, and the last two are my competencies. So I kind of go in these blocks, and that's not what everybody does. But so wonder and ideation, or what's it called, invention, are. Are my frustrations. And it just gave. I think I had for so long felt like whether in the different jobs that I've done, coming up with ideas is just never been something I'm good at. And I felt like, man, that's a huge weakness in my life. But to. To frame it as a frustration is not everybody gets a trophy. It's to say, I'm not going to thrive there. And ultimately, and this is kind of what we really talk about a lot is ultimately, it drives us to the fact that what the Bible says is so true. If the foot should say, because I am not a hand, I don't belong to the body. And then if the ear should say, because I'm not an eye, I don't belong to the body. And so this whole idea that, yeah, we are gifted differently for a reason. And so that's been one of the beautiful things. Like, we knew the three of us worked really well together. We knew that in the process, the workflow process, that for some reason, for the three of us, it really worked. And so the.

[Ann]

But we didn't know why.

[Courtney Docter]

We didn't know how to explain it when people asked us.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Exactly.

[Ann]

But let me step back on that. Let me ask A question. Why do we. And I don't know if this is just a female thing, why do we, when we see a gifting in someone else, immediately go to, well, I'm not needed. I mean, it's clear scripture. Paul's writing that. But I do think that's what we do. We say, oh, I'm just a foot.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Or, why am I so bad at this?

[Ann]

Yes.

[Unnamed Colleague]

So even, like, me not being able to ideate, and you always have all these great ideas, and it was like, why can't I come up with it? Right.

[Ann]

Yes, Right.

[Unnamed Colleague]

And then, I mean, we were just grateful that Melissa was telling us what book to write or what thing to, you know, and. But it put that in. In context of, oh, I can take the idea and go do something with it.

[Courtney Docter]

It gave me so much freedom just to say, oh, like, this is a strength of Melissa's. It doesn't mean I never have to come up with an idea. But this is a strength, and I can help her by supporting her in that. Because she doesn't know how to do what I know how to do. And I don't see how. What I'm doing, like, bringing the structure, like, it's so easy to me. I'm like, of course you guys know how to do that. That's the thing you don't realize.

[Ann]

I think when we're in our strength, we don't even think of it as serving. So I remember I felt badly giving the implementation tasks to someone because I was like, who wants to do tenacity?

[Unnamed Colleague]

Who wants to do that?

[Ann]

It's fun to think of ideas. Let's just sit around the room all day. But, like, y'all are actually getting the work done.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Well. And I felt bad going to you and being like, can you help ideate on this until we have the. You know, the language for it. I know. And then you're like, yes, great, but.

[Ann]

I don't want to do the spreadsheet.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right. Well, I don't really want to do this.

[Courtney Docter]

I want to do a spreadsheet.

[Unnamed Colleague]

I want to galvanize everybody.

[Ann]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Colleague]

And as a spreadsheet for life, so. Yes, exactly.

[Courtney Docter]

Yeah.

[Ann]

And it's. So I think it's. It's that acceptance that, yes, I'm either a hand or a foot or an eye or an ear. I. I can't be everything, but I need to be the something God's made me to be.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah.

[Ann]

And it was this. Oh, it's okay. And it's okay to just call them a frustration. Not a. Not a Hiding. Oh, I don't do that. I don't do spreadsheets.

[Courtney Docter]

It's not an excuse. Yes. I don't have to do that because I'm not good at that. You can actually, especially your compet. You can actually be really good at something. Like, I think before we took the working genius, we thought I might have tenacity as a genius because I could just get things done.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right.

[Courtney Docter]

But it's actually competency of mine. And there's seasons in my, like, personal life and in my work life where I had to be doing the tenacity work. I was exhausted. I was so burnt out. But if I need to do it for a little bit, I'm okay. And so I think that that is, like, important to consider as well.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Well, and even, like, you kind of mentioned early on how it plays into, you know, family life or church life. But even that was where it really helped me, because what I think my top is it. My top genius is galvanizing. And I think it is. And yes, yes. Everybody's like, yes, she galvanizes all the time. But it was as a grandmother when you were like. Because I took all five grandkids to a Bear World, you know, it's this like, theme park thing, and I had to get them all in the car and, you know, they're all pretty little and. And. But you were saying, oh, it's your g. Galvanizing. You're like, sit down, put your shoes on, get in the car. We're doing this. Like, it's, you know.

[Ann]

Yes.

[Unnamed Colleague]

But actually, the idea to go to Bear World was my husband's. Oh, it wasn't mine. Isn't that fascinating?

[Courtney Docter]

That's interesting.

[Unnamed Colleague]

But I'm like.

[Courtney Docter]

Because he's.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's go.

[Courtney Docter]

Yeah. Because he's an inventor.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Exactly. And so the idea was his. And then I was like, on it and got it done.

[Ann]

So can we talk a little bit about the motherhood thing? Which is great work. And we've, you know, we. We. Even though we tend to think of this in a professional environment, it hit me of, oh, because I'm a di. Discerning ideator or id. I don't know which one. Or Inventive discerner. I'm not sure. I realize the young years of parenting require a lot of galvanizing and a lot of tenacity, because guess what? Children need their teeth brushed every day. Every day. And it's rough.

[Unnamed Colleague]

How's your kids dental?

[Ann]

Right. Is it a funny story?

[Courtney Docter]

Yes. Yes.

[Ann]

Poor Kate, I think she'll let me tell this story. Poor Kate got to school. It's elementary school. At chapel, they ask, stand up if you brushed your teeth this morning. She was like, I thought you were only supposed to brush your teeth at night. This is what happens to third children with it lacking tenacious. I forgot to teach her that.

[Unnamed Colleague]

The other kids knew if she had only had the language to stand up and say, my mom's an ideator, an inventor, not a tenacious person.

[Ann]

She had the idea to brush teeth with the first child, but the third.

[Courtney Docter]

Child, it got boring.

[Ann]

By the third child, it wasn't get that done. So tenacity, those daily tasks, the tying the shoes, the dressing the kids, the doing the laundry, that was a really exhausting season of motherhood for me. But then when we got to the teen years and it was more ideas and how to talk through that problem with them and how to discern, hey, what should you do about your friendship? I was in my wheelhouse, and I found it so hopeful, you know, if you're a mom listening right now, to think through. Well, maybe one reason this season is particularly hard on me. And again, I didn't get to escape this task. I still had to do them. But it's actually helpful to know this is why I'm so tired and Courtney's not.

[Melissa Krueger]

Right.

[Ann]

Because we tend to compare and think, what's wrong with me that I'm not flying in the season to bear world.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right, Right.

[Ann]

Because I'm probably not going to be that grandma.

[Unnamed Colleague]

You probably aren't going to be. But even whether you're a mom listening or even if you work at your church, when I was on staff at a church, again, I look back on that season, and it was. I was frustrated with the ideas I could implement all day long. I could get people rallied all day long. But I had a hard time kind of with the new initiative piece of it. And so it's just fascinating. It kind of plays out in all of life. And I think what it did for us is it gave us that language for, like, the. The landing of the plane of the first Corinthians verse that I read. And, you know, Paul says the same thing. Melissa, do you want to read that in Romans 12? Yeah, read Romans 12 because it gives us this. You know, it's not like the working genius is the end all and be all. There are a ton of different tools. It's just the reality of how do you land the plane in ways that you can really understand to make this biblical truth A. A tangible reality in your lives for the fact that the way the Lord has wired each of us, and the way the Lord has wired his body, the church, is in this exact way that we all have gifts, but none of us have all the gifts, and we really need each other.

[Ann]

Say that again.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It's.

[Ann]

We all have gifts.

[Unnamed Colleague]

We all have gifts.

[Ann]

Yep.

[Unnamed Colleague]

And. But none of us have all the gifts. And so even just putting them in these six categories makes it so, because a lot of times when we look at the spiritual gifts assessments and we look at the spiritual gift tests, then it gets a little bit more. You know, they're kind of broad categories like teaching or leadership or hospitality or mercy. But I think the. This particular tool, the working genius, which you can use any of them, but this one really gave us the language for understanding how the Lord had gifted us to do a particular job, but we cannot do it alone. And how then the three of us together, it's. It's one reason it's not just, I think, effective by God's grace, but joyful by God's grace. And so, yeah, read Paul in Romans 12.

[Ann]

Yes. Yes. Paul has things to say.

[Courtney Docter]

Yes.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Paul had a lot. I wonder what his working genius was.

[Courtney Docter]

I wonder.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Definitely discernment, maybe galvanized.

[Ann]

I think he was a galvanized. He's like you. This is Romans 12, three through maybe eight. For by the grace given to me, I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly. This is really relevant, actually. Yeah.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Paul. And I want you to not think more highly of yourself, Alyssa, but to.

[Ann]

Think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. For as in one body, we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function. So we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another, having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them. And then he goes through the list. So let me park on that for a minute. I think we tend to think about what we're good at as being for us.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yes.

[Ann]

So this is what verse five says. So we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. And then it goes on, you know, we have the grace given to us, yet us, let us use them. And so it's not to use them so that I get ahead or I glorify myself. It's because we're one body and we're actually needed. What a beautiful thing. We're needed, but it's not up to us.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right? Right.

[Ann]

You know, and so how can we in the church serve in that way that, oh, I bring my gifts to the table not to show that I'm great or hey, y'all really need me.

[Unnamed Colleague]

But which we do though?

[Ann]

Yeah, so it's both.

[Unnamed Colleague]

But that's, that's right.

[Ann]

But, but to have that servant attitude with our gifts that these were given to, they have been received to be.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Given and all of them, right? Because like, it's so easy to look at Ann's gifts and think, okay, those are so clearly serving others. Right? But even looking at Melissa's as an ideator, she is giving us. And I am serving you both by galvanizing you.

[Courtney Docter]

I think one of the ways we can do that is by recognizing others gifts and saying them. So like, Melissa, I am so thankful you gave me that idea. And so I'm gonna, like, help you implement that. So it's not only like owning and recognizing, recognizing your gifts, but recognizing others gifts and pointing that out and telling them that and saying that to them. Because that's an encouragement and it's showing a humility of, I need you, not like so focused on, you need me.

[Unnamed Colleague]

That's so good.

[Ann]

Because I am not here to manage your pride. Scripture doesn't tell me to manage, to make sure Courtney's humble. So I'm not going to pray, actually. What scripture says encourage one another as long as it's called today. And I think sometimes in the church where we can be like, she already knows that. He already knows. I mean, he preaches every week. Why should I tell the pastor he did a good job this week.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right?

[Ann]

You don't know. We don't know that somebody might be on the edge of quitting every day. We all feel that. And for someone to look at you and say, I think we could probably go back. And in our minds, remember when someone looked at you and said, hey, you're really gifted at that? And that probably spurred on so much love and good deeds because someone saw and affirmed your giftedness. And we need to be doing that collectively. And we don't.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It's actually how we discern our gifts. I tell people all the time that thing that people ask you to do over and over again, like, nobody has ever. And even if they had asked me to sing, they're not going to ask me a second time. Right? Because it's not a gifting. And so. But if people are like, would you, Would you organize this event? Or would you. There's a woman in the hospital who needs care. Would you be the one to go. So we see as the body. So if we're not. Back to your point, Anne. If we're not affirming each other's gifts, we're actually. We're depriving the body and that person of helping discern their own giftedness in that. So it's really important.

[Courtney Docter]

And the whole body suffers, then the whole body suffers.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yes.

[Courtney Docter]

It's not just the person who is in front. You know, like, even, like, being here at tgc, right? There's a lot of people in front. And it was, like, easy for me to be like, oh, I want to teach. Like, I'm trained in this. I love this. I want to do this. Like, I should just sacrifice using my gifts so I can pursue my own dream. And I quickly realized with a lot of your. Both of your helps, that that's not necessarily the right thing to do and that I bring so much to the table to support you all in doing your gifts. And I still. To learn, and I still get to use my gifts. And you know what? I'm a lot less exhausted.

[Ann]

Wow. Huh. So sometimes there's a temptation of, oh, serving the kingdom is best when it's really hard.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right? Right.

[Courtney Docter]

Yeah.

[Ann]

Like, it must be if it feels like if I'm enjoying it. I remember you saying this about speaking like you felt like it was almost wrong to enjoy what God had gifted you to do. Right. Rather than just say, no, I do enjoy it. This is what he's called me to. And let me. Let me run in the path of your commands because you have set my heart free, like, to do that with joy.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah.

[Ann]

Okay. Now, one thing we. I think we can sometimes fall into is we especially, like, some people maybe are in charge of hiring people, or maybe you hire out your friends or whatever.

[Courtney Docter]

I don't know.

[Ann]

Some people like me have to pay great sums to keep them around. It's tempting to want to look for people like you, whether it's in hiring positions or even honestly in friendships or people in your same season. Because, see, that's a whole nother part of this.

[Unnamed Colleague]

I know.

[Ann]

You know, what's the danger of that? And how can we make sure to put a check on ourselves that, oh, I don't actually need everyone who's like me?

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right. Well, I mean, diversity of all kinds. Yes, diversity of all kinds benefits each one of us. Because when we see things through someone else's eyes, maybe they were raised in a country different than ours. Maybe they were raised in a subculture different than ours. Maybe they've Experienced life in a body that is either a different color than ours or a different gender than ours, or, you know, they've experienced life differently or they have different giftings. Right. We benefit as we grow together and we learn from each other. And so diversity of all kinds is. Is vital, I think, even for our Christian growth, because we. We actually really need each other. But diversity of giftings plays into that. That's part of that.

[Courtney Docter]

Because I think it's not only how we see the world why that diversity is so important, but how we see God. You know, like, God is so big. I cannot fully. I mean, none of us will ever fully understand him. Right. He's so great. But I cannot, like, worship him in the same way as someone else would worship him. And so, as I say, see someone else worshiping him or serving him with their gifts. I'm learning even more about my Lord. And I love getting to see that.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Oh, I love that. I never thought about that. I think wonder might be the only. The only thing that God doesn't have. He doesn't have to wonder about anything, but he certainly has amazing ideas. Creative, right? Discerning, wise, beyond all. Beyond all measure. I mean, you just. It's like, yep, loves his people, calls us, enables us to call. And then all the way through, right? I mean, yes, exactly, like all the way through. I never thought about that.

[Ann]

But also, he's so great and incomprehensible that no one person other than the person of Jesus Christ who is God in himself, can rightly reflect him. Like, we were created in the image of God. And so as the earth was going to be filled with people, this is pre fall. His glory would go out through all the earth. And in some sense it shows the greatness of God that we need so many giftings to rightly show forth his character and so that he is using all of us. And what I love sometimes. I don't know if you ever feel this. I'm watching the news or I'm seeing the state of the world and I feel all this. Well, I can't, you know, live in a rural context and live in an urban context. I can't live on mission in Charlotte and live overseas on mission. You know, like, you. You feel like there's so much work to be done. And I know for me it's been a sweet kind of check. And to be like, the church will do it, though.

[Melissa Krueger]

Yeah.

[Ann]

Melissa doesn't have to do it.

[Melissa Krueger]

Right.

[Ann]

The church has got. God's going to work through the church.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right.

[Ann]

And to Realize, and this sets up everything differently, right? Because then let's say Courtney does something amazing or even like writes an amazing book and it goes out to all these women or whatever. I'm not in competition with you. I'm like, Jesus just went out, right? Like his. His people, like collectively. So we're cheering each other on rather than comparing.

[Unnamed Colleague]

You're so good at that, though. Your kingdom mindedness, it has. It's so. So you always look to say, like, what. You know, what Bible study needs to be written next? And you'll say, oh, that one's already out there. It doesn't matter, right? How it got out there. You're like, okay, we don't need to do that because the kingdom already has that. And that is such an important mindset in all of this. Right? The kingdom already has that we can do. You know, what would the Lord call us to do?

[Courtney Docter]

And you're good at noticing other people's gifts too. And so you'll say, you can do that. Sometimes I wonder if you're just tired, right?

[Ann]

But a lot. Are we really just seeing? Melissa's lazy and she tells everyone else what to do because that's kind of where my happy place is.

[Unnamed Colleague]

You. You do like to pass your ideas off. She shares her giftedness with us in so many ways.

[Ann]

Generous. Look at what the kingdom needs.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Go do it someone else.

[Courtney Docter]

Go and do it someone else.

[Ann]

But we can cheer each other on. And I think sometimes in. In his skin, it's a right viewing of our guests. We're part of a body. I don't. It's not just about me. So I even think about this, even how we grow our gifts, how we spend time with the Lord, how we root ourselves in the Word. It's not. So I'm a better Bible teacher, so I'm better at something. All of those things are actually collective. You know, my prayer time isn't just about me. My time in the Word isn't just about me. I'm a member of a body. So me being strengthened by abiding in the vine and being fueled by Jesus makes the whole body stronger.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right. My sanctification is not for me alone.

[Ann]

Yes.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It's not my holiness, my pursuit of holiness, my growth in righteousness by God's grace. None of those things are just for me because I benefit. As you two grow in the Lord, right? And continue, then it. It causes me to. In fact, there's a really good book called Growing Together, and it sort of. It sort of pictures that. Who wrote that idea? She had the idea and she did it herself. Oh, my word. She did all the gifts.

[Ann]

It was a moment of grace.

[Unnamed Colleague]

But it's that idea that all of those things. I say it all the time. In the context of Bible studies. Don't just do your homework each week for yourself. Because when you do your homework in Bible study and then you show up, your whole small group benefits from the fact that you spent time in the Word. But so it was. Yeah, it's the same thing. Like, we just need each other. We just need each other.

[Ann]

Yeah. And. And what a beautiful thing.

[Unnamed Colleague]

I know.

[Ann]

To belong.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah.

[Ann]

You know, we belong to one another and that. So then we start thinking of. Think of gifting in a different way. It's a stewardship issue, not a self like, oh, who am I? I mean. Yeah, that's all important to try to.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Figure this out yourself. A sober judgment.

[Ann]

Yeah. But it becomes a real stewardship. So let me ask one final question, and then we'll. We'll close up. How do we steward our gifts? Well, because scripture has examples where it says, you know, you were given five, right. Whatever piece of talents, you know, and you were given 10. And different people did different things with those talents and were rewarded for it or were, you know, told, hey, you were. You went and dug a hole and didn't steward your gifts. And it basically says a really interesting thing. He who has will be given more.

[Unnamed Colleague]

More work. It is. It's more work.

[Ann]

Go dig a hole.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It's because we were actually created for that. Love is going to go bury your gift.

[Courtney Docter]

I got enough work.

[Ann]

Yeah, exactly. So what has it looked like in your life to steward the gifts that God's given? Because it does. It. It is an active thing. It doesn't just happen.

[Unnamed Colleague]

It doesn't just happen.

[Courtney Docter]

Trying to think. I think sometimes it involves sacrifice of what I thought my life would look like or what I thought I wanted to do, or even like a dream in some case. But it always turns out so much better, like, because it's. It's recognizing this is what the Lord has made me to do. And I might not have seen it at first, but as I do that, I feel his joy in a whole nother way.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah.

[Courtney Docter]

And so it. It first primarily, you know, it plays out in my marriage and my family, with my kids, making sure that I'm using my gifts to bless them. And then my local church, like, if I'm not using my gifts in my local church, like, that's where they're for in a big. That's why God gave us a local church to be together and to go out and to spread the gospel together. And like you were saying earlier, we can get so overwhelmed by all the work that needs to be done out there, but we can't do it all. And so we can see though this place that God gave us is the church, and we can serve and use our gifts there. And so I think that's another big place we should be using our gifts.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah, I love that. And so definitely in the local church and in the, you know, place he has put you to live and move and have your being. But I also think it's the idea of creating space at the table for other people to come in and use their gifts. I think that that's a huge part of stewarding our gifts, is that we're not just focused on how am I stewarding my gifts, but it's this corporate how am I helping others steward their gifts? Either making space for them, inviting their them in, like you said, affirming them, recognizing them, telling them, and then. And then rejoicing, rejoicing with them as.

[Courtney Docter]

They use their gifts and not. Not putting them down when they're not. When they're using their weakness, you know, like when they do something because they have to and it doesn't go well. Still being grateful, you know, and not just being so frustrated.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Right, right.

[Ann]

So do you all remember the movie Karate Kid? You remember when he had to do wax on and wax off and he had no idea why he was learning those skills? I think one way we can steward our gift. And I'll just close with this because you, you may be listening, you may be like, I don't know what my gift is. God each day is giving us a classroom, and he is faithful to grow us. And we may be doing things and we don't know why we're doing them. I don't know if you ever felt like that I was doing certain things, and I'm like, why is this relevant to my life? What I've loved watching over, I guess it's now been 36 years of following Jesus is how he's woven things from one part of my story with other parts to finally say, this is why you needed to do that. And so wherever you are in your story, I think you can trust that the Lord is developing your gifts. Because if he called you to Himself, he has a purpose for you and you are so needed. I think the saddest thing any of us who have the Holy Spirit indwelling in us can listen to the lie of Satan that you don't matter.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Yeah.

[Ann]

He gave his blood for you. He put his spirit in you. He will work through you. So you might feel like you're in the wax on, wax off, and you're like, what is my life? But he will get you there. And he. You have gifts. The church needs you. And what a wonderful thing. I think of Dave when he says, I'd rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. Whatever we're doing, it's for the king.

[Courtney Docter]

Right.

[Ann]

So it has value and it matters. And. And that's the grace. Well, this is so fun talking about this with you guys. And one thing we like to end on, we obviously share with everyone that we like deep dish pizza, but we also want to hear what other people love and what's. What they enjoy. And so one thing the three of us love deeply is talking about food and eating. That's.

[Courtney Docter]

That's often what we get sidetracked on.

[Ann]

Yes.

[Courtney Docter]

Talking about.

[Ann]

Yes. We all use our discernment to find where do we want to go to eat? So, Ann, can you tell us one favorite recipe you're loving right now?

[Courtney Docter]

One of my favorite recipes, it's been in our family, gosh, I don't even know how many years. It's called steak soup, which it's not actually steak. It's ground hamburger.

[Unnamed Colleague]

Is it actually soup?

[Courtney Docter]

It is actually soup. It is actually soup. It's ground hamburger and then just all these veggies and like, it's a thicker sauce. And especially in the fall and winter, I just like, I'll make a huge batch and then just put it in my freezer because I love to heat it up. And it's just been. It reminds me of my grandma. It reminds me of my mom, you know, so it just like has that emotional, like, oh, I feel like warm eating this, not only because it's soup, but because it just reminds me of so many great memories that home. So it's one of my favorites.

[Unnamed Colleague]

We'll come over and you can make it for us.

[Courtney Docter]

Fantastic.

[Ann]

We'll make sure to link to it in the show notes.

[Courtney Docter]

Oh, yeah.

[Ann]

But an, thank you for being with us. Thanks for having me. Thanks for keeping us on track regularly in our life as we work together. But we do just encourage you find a place where you can serve. Serve in your church, serve in your neighborhood, but just know that you're needed and that God is at work in you. Thanks for listening. We're so glad you've been here for this episode of the Deep Dish, and we'll see you next time. Hey, friends, it's Melissa Krueger here, and I'm so excited that you're listening to the Deep Dish. Wanna stay connected and get even more resources for growing in your faith? We've got a new newsletter for you, and we're so excited about it. When you subscribe, you'll get discussion questions for the Deep Dish episodes, memory verses, updates on what's happening with women's initiatives, as well as some of our favorite staff picks. And these are really fun. So head over to tgc.org women and sign up today. We can't wait to connect with you again. That's TGC.org women.