Podcast Summary: The Determined Society with Shawn French

Episode: "Chasing Evil: Voices of the Dead" with John Edward & Bob Hillen

Date: September 8, 2025
Guests: John Edward (psychic medium, author), Bob Hillen (retired FBI agent, co-author)
Host: Shawn French

Episode Overview

This engrossing episode of The Determined Society dives deep into the collaboration between psychic medium John Edward and retired FBI agent Bob Hillen, co-authors of the new book Chasing Evil. Through their three-decade partnership, the pair recounts their work on cold cases, the skepticism and sacrifices behind their alliance, and how grief and determination fuel the pursuit of justice. The conversation is candid and often humorous, but always threaded with heart and vulnerability, offering profound insights on belief, loss, and the search for truth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin Story: How a Skeptic and a Psychic Joined Forces

[02:54] Bob Hillen shares how, as a young New Jersey police officer in the 1990s, he became aware of the John Smith missing persons case—a case accentuated by suspicious repeat disappearances but lacking evidence:

"They couldn't bring the case together. There was no bodies, no physical evidence, and it went cold." — Bob Hillen [02:54]

After years away in the FBI, Bob revisits the cold case and, as part of his renewed investigation, approaches John Edward—a psychic he'd once dismissed as a fraud.
[06:58] Bob deliberately "tests" John with unrelated items mixed among the victim's belongings, and is stunned by John's accuracy in separating them and providing precise information:

"He separated these things out and says, 'I don't know what these things are, but they have nothing to do with the reason you're here.' … It could not be denied." — Bob Hillen [06:58]

2. Skepticism, Belief, and the Unexplainable

[05:59] John reflects on his own initial disbelief in psychic phenomena and how his approach with skeptics mirrors his personal journey:

"I didn't really believe that this world of energy existed in the way that it does… It's up to them. But it's no different than any other client that sits in front of me.” — John Edward [05:59]

[25:39] Bob describes hiding the collaboration from colleagues for years and how even after decades, the “young Bob” inside him is incredulous:

"The young Bob Hillen would be making fun of you two…The world was very black and white to me back then. John has taught me an awful lot…there's more than what we just see." — Bob Hillen [25:39]

3. The Emotional & Personal Toll of Chasing Justice

[16:10] Bob opens up about the strains on family life caused by his dedication:

"There's only so many hours in the day... I'm not a guy that does things by half measure. I'm all in. And that's a strength, but it's also a converse weakness." — Bob Hillen [16:10]

A poignant moment is when his young son throws his pager—symbolizing the intrusive nature of duty in family life [16:32].

[19:18] Bob reveals writing the book is, in part, a tribute to his children, explaining his long absences.

4. Spiritual Guidance Meets Hard-Nosed Investigation

[11:53] John likens the challenge of working with Bob to lifting unexpected spiritual “weights,” realizing he could stretch his abilities further than expected:

"It kind of was like a new discovery of an aspect of something that I didn't think I can do... it became a way that I can stretch." — John Edward [11:53]

[14:31] The episode also spotlights the relentless dedication of law enforcement behind the scenes:

"If I could show people the level of dedication and determination that Bob brought to the individual cases, I think it really shines a light on people who are like the unsung heroes." — John Edward [14:31]

5. Exploring Grief, Growth, and the Lessons Beyond the Cases

[24:39] The conversation expands beyond crime-solving, encouraging listeners to reflect on their own losses and spiritual evolution:

"It’s not just about the cases. It’s about getting people to look at their life. It gives a sense of comfort, right? ... The more introspective we can be…the more impactful.” — Shawn French [24:39]

[29:27] A recurring message: "look at what's right in front of you"—both in investigations and in life.

6. The Credibility Dilemma: Coming Out of the Shadows

[39:13] Bob details the delicate process of revealing his alliance with John to select colleagues, often camouflaged as confidential “sources.” FBI agents interviewed for the book verified the accuracy of John’s tips.

[43:00] John shares how people assumed Bob’s presence indicated security concerns due to death threats, unaware of the true psychic-law enforcement collaboration.

7. Navigating Public Vulnerability

[50:30] Bob shares the discomfort—and hope—of stepping out from behind the scenes and revealing personal vulnerabilities in the book:

"I am the guy that…I grew up…a guy doesn't have feelings, a guy doesn't have emotions. So for me, I feel like I am letting the world into my life, and that's scary…" — Bob Hillen [50:30]

[52:25] The journey has also taught Bob about his own emotional landscape and the value of facing family and personal history.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On skeptical beginnings:
  "If the young Bob Hillen was sitting here, he'd be...saying, what are you guys doing? Why don't you get a Ouija board out..." — Bob Hillen [25:39]

• On bridging skepticism:
  "Chasing evil is a great way to get them to kind of walk through that door without them realizing they're walking through that door." — John Edward [28:19]

• On family sacrifice:
  "My little boy, Connor, picked up the pager and threw it against the wall. Because for him, when he heard the pager go off, he knew that meant dad was going away." — Bob Hillen [16:32]

• On perseverance in the face of adversity:
  "Not saying no to something when somebody in the face of adversity is saying, you can't do that. Finding a different way." — John Edward [55:27]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Bob’s First Meeting with John & Initial Test — [06:58]
• John Reflects on His Own Early Skepticism — [05:59]
• Bob Discusses Family Strains of His Work — [16:10], [16:32]
• Spiritual “Weight Lifting” Analogy & Growth — [11:53]
• On Keeping Their Collaboration Secret — [39:13], [43:00]
• On Vulnerability & Publishing the Book — [50:30]
• Host’s Reflections on Loss & Relatability — [24:39]
• “Look at What’s Right in Front of You” — [29:27]
• Skepticism as a Bridge for Others to Consider the Paranormal — [28:19]
• Memorable Over-the-Top Police Investigative Moment (Glamour Shots Photo) — [34:30]

Overall Tone & Takeaways

The tone is alternately earnest, reflective, humorous, and raw.
Both guests are candid about the personal and professional costs of their journey, but also passionate about the meaning behind their work. They stress that the book Chasing Evil is not about converting skeptics, but about offering a record of reality as they lived it—a blend of empirical persistence, spiritual openness, and personal transformation.

For listeners, the episode delivers not just true crime and the paranormal, but authentic lessons about grief, determination, the unknown dimensions of our experience, and the possibility for unexpected allies to profoundly change our life's course.