Doug Bopst: Breaking Norms Through Transformation

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Doug Bopst Went to Jail and Came Back Unrecognizable"

Podcast: The Determined Society with Shawn French
Host: Shawn French
Guest: Doug Bopst
Date: March 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode is a raw, inspiring conversation with Doug Bopst—a once-addicted, out-of-shape felon who turned his darkest days into a powerful story of redemption, fitness, and purpose. Doug shares how a jail stint at 21 forced him to confront his demons, develop discipline, and commit to self-transformation—emerging, quite literally, unrecognizable. Host Shawn French and Doug delve deep into identity, adversity, the pitfalls of comfort-seeking, and the real path to confidence and impact.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lowest Point: Addiction, Arrest, and Jail

• Doug’s Background: At age 20, Doug was addicted to opiates, cocaine, weed, severely overweight (40% body fat), and selling drugs.
• Arrest Story ([20:32]):
  • Pulled over on Cinco de Mayo 2008 with weed, cash, and drug paraphernalia in his car.
  • Doug reflects on his own self-sabotage, fear, and inability to face discomfort:
    “It came down to my inability to deal with discomfort and stress and anxiety and to stand up for myself and confidence.” ([21:18])
• Sentencing: 90 days in jail, 5 years’ probation, community service, with eventual opportunity for record expungement.

2. Jail—Rock Bottom as a Turning Point

• First Days in Jail ([23:00]-[26:00]):

  • Doug’s detox from opiates; describes weeks of agony as “the worst case of the flu for weeks.”
  • Meets his cellmate Eric, a jacked “Brad Pitt from Fight Club”-type, who challenges Doug’s mindset:

    Eric: “You have two choices. Be a man, look yourself in the mirror and say that you got yourself here, or be a bitch, go cry in the corner and say, ‘woe is me.’” ([26:07])

• Embracing Discomfort:

  • Eric trains Doug in jail—starting with holding planks from his knees, progressing slowly to push-ups and running.
  • Doug’s physical progress mirrors emotional growth, learning to regulate emotions and build intrinsic discipline:

    “It changed me because it taught me to get comfortable being uncomfortable.” ([29:25]) “I was forced to take accountability again. I was forced to self-regulate. I was forced to change my habits.” ([02:00] & [13:03])

• Transformation:

  • By release, Doug is in better shape and mental health than ever before.
  • Emotional moment on departure: “The day I left jail, I actually cried because I didn’t want to leave.” ([01:32], [29:00])

3. The Core of Transformation: Identity, Labels, and Confidence

• Identity Pitfalls:

  • Discussion about the dangers of permanently labeling oneself as an “addict”:

    “There’s a difference between ‘I am a failure’ and ‘I failed.’ … If you make that your identity, you’re screwed.” ([05:30])

  • Critique of AA/12-step model for its lifelong “addict” label:

    “I don’t think everybody needs to identify as being an addict for the rest of their life because of the negative weight…” ([05:55])

• Reinvention & Cognitive Dissonance:

  • Doug shares about the challenge of self-perception after transformation—still seeing “fat Doug” or “felon Doug” in the mirror after losing weight and reshaping his life ([09:10]).
  • Therapy is necessary to align internal identity with external change.

• Confidence Building:

  • Both Shawn and Doug stress confidence comes from small, consistent wins and honoring commitments to oneself:

    Shawn: “That’s a vote for you. It is a vote for that person that gets up and says, I’m going to do something, then they go freaking do it.” ([40:19]) Doug: “Part of building confidence is surviving those storms… can I survive hard times? Can I conquer things that scare me and can I commit to doing the things I want to do when it doesn’t make sense to?” ([39:10])

4. Pain into Purpose: Fitness, Service, and Platform-Building

• Fitness as Catalyst:

  • Fitness helped Doug convert pain into positive momentum, offering not just physical transformation but mental resilience.
  • Cautions that fitness pursued solely for vanity (“when I get six-pack abs, my problems will go away”) leads to new traps; real fulfillment comes from internal growth ([42:14]).

• Service and Giving Back:

  • Post-release, Doug became a trainer, speaker, podcast host, and author ([61:12]).
  • Overcame shame and stigma by honestly sharing his past, realizing:

    “If people are going to judge you for something that happened and that you’ve already worked through, then they’re not meant to be in your life.” ([61:44])

  • Today, he targets helping young men facing loneliness, addiction, self-esteem issues:
    “I'm trying to step into that space, you know, delicately, because I know sometimes you get looped into the manosphere and everything else, which I don't [want].” ([65:08])

5. The Perils of Chasing External Validation

• Vanity Metrics (Subscribers, Plaques, Big Guests):

  • Discussion of how chasing subscriber counts, downloads, or celebrity guests leads to emptiness if not grounded in purpose:

    Doug: “If you're just chasing numbers, eventually that gets old.” ([45:34]) Shawn: “The win is not in the attainment of that number. It is who you become in the process of it, right?” ([46:00])

  • Doug frames his YouTube 100k subscriber plaque to remind himself of real progress ([30:28]).

• Consistency Over Trends:

  • Advice from Andrew Huberman to Doug: “Be consistent… don't chase trends for quick wins.” ([56:45])
  • Authenticity and meaningful conversations valued over trend-chasing or hollow successes ([59:00]).

6. Podcasting, Growth & Purpose

• The Realities of Creating Content:
  • Discusses the grind, expense, and difficulty of podcasting and content creation:

    “Launching a podcast is the most down and dirty and gritty thing I've ever done … When people come up to me and they overcomplicate these level 5 problems… just start…” ([77:48])

    • Most podcasts quit after a few episodes—it’s about longevity and consistency.
• Advice to New Creators:
  • Don’t overinvest; start simple, focus on your “why,” and fulfill a purpose beyond money or numbers ([77:48], [82:22]).
  • “Lean on purpose. Don’t do it for the money.” ([81:24])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Doug (on transformation in jail):
  “I cried when I left jail because I didn’t want to leave… It changed me because it taught me to get comfortable being uncomfortable.” ([01:32], [29:25])

• Eric (cellmate, as quoted by Doug):
  “You have two choices … Be a man, look yourself in the mirror and say you got yourself here, or go cry in the corner and say, ‘woe is me.’” ([26:07])

• Doug (on labels):
  “There’s a difference between ‘I am a failure’ and ‘I failed.’ … If you make that your identity, you’re screwed.” ([05:30])

• Shawn (on building confidence):
  “That’s a vote for you. … Too many people think confidence comes from getting in great shape, but it never sticks. You have to build the confidence by doing the damn work and staying in a frickin standard.” ([40:19])

• Doug (on what determination means):
  “Determination … is making forward progress and effort even when it doesn’t make sense to do so. Even when the validation isn’t there, even when the money’s not there … you just keep going.” ([88:42])

• Doug (on purpose and identity):
  “If people are going to judge you for something you’ve already worked through, they’re not meant to be in your life.” ([61:44])

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Timestamps of Major Segments

• Doug’s Arrest and Background - [20:32]
• Jail, Detox, and Eric’s Tough Love - [23:00] to [26:30]
• Transformation and Fitness Routine in Jail - [27:58] to [30:33]
• The Importance of Identity and Not Self-Labeling - [05:30] to [08:55]
• Cognitive Dissonance and Therapy - [08:55] to [11:28]
• Building Real Confidence - [38:00] to [42:14]
• Chasing Validation, Trophies and the False Idol of Growth Metrics - [45:34] to [48:07]
• Podcasting and the Trap of Trends - [49:32], [56:45], [58:59]
• Current Purpose: Mentoring Young Men, Legacy - [61:12] to [65:35]
• Advice to New Content Creators/Consistency - [77:22] to [82:22]
• Doug’s Definition of Determination - [88:42]

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Themes and Takeaways

• Transformation is Possible—But Only Through Accountability & Discomfort

  • Real change demands radical honesty about the role you play in your own problems, willingness to be uncomfortable, and consistent action.

• Purpose Outweighs Metrics

  • Sustainable growth—in fitness, recovery, or content creation—comes from finding meaning and service, not from chasing numbers or surface validation.

• Confidence is Built in the Smallest Moments

  • Incremental, daily follow-through is what fills the “confidence reservoir,” not sudden external change.

• Embrace the Slow, Messy Process

  • Progress is not linear; setbacks are part of the growth cycle. Whether in jail, recovery, fitness, business, or podcasts—start with tiny steps, stick with them, and accept that discomfort is the soil of transformation.

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Final Reflections

Doug’s story is a testament to the possibility of profound change—starting from total rock bottom. His life now, as an author, trainer, and mentor, is built not on erasing the past, but alchemizing it into fuel for purpose, service, and a new identity. For anyone struggling with their own setbacks, this conversation is a powerful reminder:

“It doesn't matter where you've been, you can always come back.” ([03:35])

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Find Doug Bopst:

• Show: The Adversity Advantage
• Social & Books: [Links in episode show notes]

Memorable Outro:

“Determination is making forward progress and effort even when it doesn’t make sense to do so. … When you’re determined, you just keep going, no matter what.” ([88:42])

Transcript

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

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[Doug Bobs]

A curve in the road, a change in plans. Well, what do you say with the all new Audi Q3? The answer's always yes. Yes to adventure, yes to escape, yes to performance, yes to comfort. Yes to right now. Because saying yes without hesitation, that's real luxury. The all new Audi Q3 made for the yes life. When I went to jail on felony drug charges, I cried because I didn't want to go in because of all the fears that we know with what jail looks like. And every fear I had in my mind I thought was gonna happen, all of them. The day I left jail, I actually cried because I didn't want to leave. I felt sorry for myself for so long and I compounded so many bad habits on top of that that I took my own power away and I took accountability away. I was so scared, dude. When I got to jail, I was a zombie. Like I was a nervous wreck. It taught me to get comfortable being uncomfortable. I was forced to take accountability again. I was forced to self regulate. I was forced to change my habits because otherwise if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be talking to you today. I'd be dead.

[Sean]

If you want an easy life and you want to be fruitful, then choose the hard path. Be uncomfortable in the moment you make that switch mentally is the moment you take off. You're so conditioned to do the hard thing that you don't even think about it anymore. You just do what's right.

[Doug Bobs]

Got out in the rest is history.

[Sean]

Man, that's badass. What's up everybody? Welcome back, man. I got one for you today. It's a true story of reforming, transformation and really taking something bad in this human being's life, and it's setting him up for massive success later on. I can't wait to share his story with you. I got Doug Bobs here with me today, and he's going to blow your mind with his story. And, dude, it has turned into such an incredible comeback story, man. So without further ado, welcome to the show, buddy.

[Doug Bobs]

Sean, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's been amazing that I've been able to, like, monetize and build a brand out of my shortcomings.

[Sean]

I mean, hey, it's America, right? I mean, holy, dude, it's like you the ones, the things that. And it's so funny because we're already getting into it. It's like the one thing I've always wanted the audience to understand is that it doesn't matter the shortcomings in the past or what you've been through. It's about where you're going. And no matter what, you can always come back. You truly can.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter where you've been, and you can always come back. And I totally agree with that. I think where people get tripped up is when you're in the thick of it. It's hard to focus on anything else but that problem because your nervous system just goes into fight orf flight mode and you get tunnel vision. You're like, oh, my gosh, I'm so stressed out. I'm so anxious. How am I going to pay my bills? How am I going to beat addiction? How am I going to find another spouse or whatever the example is. And then if you're not careful, you don't create separation. What happens is you react quickly and you create more problems for your life. And that. That's one of the biggest mistakes I see is because. Is that, you know, we'll get into my story and we'll talk about all the mistakes I made and why that lended me. It landed me behind bars on felony drug charges. But, you know, one of the biggest mistakes people make is that everyone goes through hard times. You know, I guarantee you, in the last month, there's something in your life, Sean, that you're like, dang, like, that sucked, dude. Right? Or something that in. In the coming months. But if you didn't create separation and you didn't have tools, you could have easily been like, you know what, like, effort. I'm going to drink a bottle of vodka tonight. I'm going to go cheat on my wife. I'm going to Go do all these things that, you know, long term will create way more problems. So that's like, the biggest thing I will say about how do you make your shortcomings a success is it starts with creating separation so that you're able to create some forward momentum through that separation.

[Sean]

You know, that's a good point, Doug.

[Doug Bobs]

But what I've.

[Sean]

What I've also seen, and I'm sure you can echo this, is when people go through something, whether it's, you know, an addiction, jail time, or something really embarrassing, you know, adultery, and their marriage ends, whatever. Whatever that is, people like to attach that to their identity. And to your point, you have to have some type of separation because just because it's something you did and you've gone through and you're paying the price for it doesn't necessarily mean that is who you are.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, there's a difference between I am a failure and I failed. Right. I think two things can be true. I think that if you do something horrible in your life, you know, I think you got to take accountability. You got to apologize where you need to, and you got to move forward. But if you make that your identity, you are screwed, because now you're like, oh, my God, I'm a failure. So that means that everything I do in the future is not going to go well, or I'm going to be like, not. Not as good as I could have been, or whatever the case may be, because your identity is so wrapped up in that and, like, hot take. That's. That's one of the things I have an issue with, with like, AA and the 12 step community, to be transparent. I think it's a great thing for. For a lot of people. The one thing that I would disagree with is that I don't think everybody needs to identify as being an addict for the rest of their life because of the negative weight that that term can carry with people with their identity. Now there's people that wear it as a badge of honor and that are great and that thrive, and they're open about it and they don't let it get to them. But a lot of people, it becomes like, that Achilles heel. Like, I'm an addict, so just staying sober is, like, the only thing I need to do. Or I'm an addict, so maybe I'm not wired to do this thing. I'm an addict, so I'm not going to be good at X, Y, and Z. So. Totally agree, man. Like, identity plays a huge role in transformation.

[Sean]

Do you think? And this could be a Hot take too. I think it's an interesting question is, do you think taking on that label of an addict leaves the door open for relapse later on down the road?

[Doug Bobs]

I think it does, because I think when you are trying to recover from addiction, I think what you must do is you got to create a different version of yourself. You have to reinvent yourself somehow. And so if your only thing that you want to accomplish is just to stay sober in recovery or whatever you see as being in recovery, then that's a pretty low bar long term. It's a great high bar in the short term because of course you want to be able to abstain for those things. But long term, you want to make more for your life, more out of yourself. You want to have purpose and you want to have meaning. And frankly, I think one of the biggest gifts for people who have gone through addiction is turning that pain into purpose. And it's using that pain in ways to help other people. It's creating a brand, creating a business, or, you know, giving back. And it's hard to do that if the only thing you're focused on is just like identifying as an addict and letting that limit you for the rest of your life. I mean, you have to find other things to attach yourself to.

[Sean]

That's a great point. And as you're, as you're talking, I'm thinking like, is it, was it. I don't want to say it was easy for you, but in, in the attempt to create that separation by creating that new identity, I would imagine moving on from the old you is super important in order to do so. Right. And I think a lot of people tried to hide their past, but if you just speak about it and say, this is what I've done, this is who I am, then you're able to create that separation, build the business, become a trainer, become a three time author. Like you have a show host and, and, and get to be in rooms with great people like Patrick, Bet, David, and all these things that you've done. You know, I guess my question is, is like when you, when you create that new identity, does it, did it help you separate from what happened?

[Doug Bobs]

It did, sort of. I think that it took some time. Why? The, the reason why is because it helped me in the short term. Because at the beginning all I needed to do was be like, all right, I need to take this day by day and I need to focus on what I can control and become closer to that person that I wanted to become. I had this vision of being a Guy that was jacked and being a guy that was successful and all the things that as guys you want when you're younger. And it worked because every day I focused on that, every day I was able to just abstain from the drugs that I was abusing, et cetera, et cetera. And then months later, I became a different version of myself, created a new identity. I think where it can get trippy for people is when there's a level of cognitive, level of cognitive dissonance, meaning that when you get to that place where you've transformed your life so much, you don't recognize yourself, you can become unrecognizable. But there's still a certain version of the old you that's still there. And if you don't work on it through therapy, through whatever form of self help tool you use, it will hold you back. And for me, that looked like I would look myself in the mirror and be like, I would still see the fat Doug, I would still see the felon Doug or the addict Doug, because my body and my life had changed so much. But I didn't do any inner work to validate that. And. And so it took me going to therapy and working through a lot of that to have the way that I saw myself match the identity that I created from my transformation. I mean, to give you the most perfect idea. And I don't say this to brag. I say this because it was the most, like, it's the most kind of crazy thing to look at is when I started to really change my life and I got fit. And I would say I probably got, like, more attractive as a guy. People would come up to me and they'd say, oh, my God, you look like Mark Wahlberg. And I would be like, I would think to myself, is that an insult? Is that an insult? Like, I thought it was an insult because as a kid, I was not the most attractive kid. I was 40% body fat. I was out of shape. And I got called names that reflected that. And those names stayed with me for years. And so my identity of who I actually saw didn't match up to the external life that I created.

[Sean]

Yeah, dude, that's powerful, because I can relate to this. You know, I mean, I always struggled with weight. And at one point, you know, back in 2024, I was up to 31 body fat, you know, and I had to completely revamp my life. I had to completely figure out, you know, what was sustainable for me and how I can get this done. And I got. I got Lean. But there are still times where I'll look in the mirror and I'll still see the same person, you know? And that is. That is a. A wiring issue. That's something that I am working through. But I can relate to that, man. Because hell, dude, when I was growing up, my. My buddies nicknamed me Squishy because I was so fat, you know, and. And it's a funny nickname looking at it now, but I surely. I sure didn't like being called that on the baseball field. Who wants to hear. Come on, Squish, Huh? Squish. Like no one wants to hear that. It's just you're constantly programming like you're not good enough. You're fat, you're fat, you're disgusting, unattractive, not worthy.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, I mean, I. Dude, I'm sorry. I understand, like how that shapes you and you. You begin to believe your own stuff, right? I think you. Your perception of yourself and the way you see yourself can become hijacked based on what you believe about what other people say about you. Like, people called me down syndrome Doug when I was a kid because. Water brain. Yeah, it was. It was bad. And I never stood up for myself. I was not like a fighter, you know, like so like, it was hard to repel that. But I will say when, you know, like when I got. When I went to jail on felony drug charges, it was. It was all there and I had to deal with it in the most raw way possible. And I felt sorry for myself. Because the story feels good to you as I'm explaining what kids said to me. And I could tell you other things, you'd be like, oh my God, Doug, that's terrible. It's so bad. And parts of it certainly were. But I felt sorry for myself for so long and I compounded so many bad habits on top of that that I took my own power away and I took accountability away. And when I was in jail, I was forced to take accountability again. I was forced to self regulate. I was forced to change my habits because otherwise if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be talking. I wouldn't be talking to you today. I'd be dead. Hey guys, we're gonna take a quick

[Sean]

break and we're gonna slide into our recovery segment brought to you by therabody. What an amazing technology that therabody has. And it was founded on a really cool story by Dr. Jason Worsland. It was founded on pain. He got into an accident and had this extreme pain in his arm and found that percussive therapy really helped. So he created the very first version of the Theragun with a makita drill just to pilot and test to see if his pain could be relieved by percussive therapy overall. And surely it was. So now birth to the theragun and now therabody was who has a multitude of products to help you recover emotionally and physically. And some of the products even help with stress, meditation and better sleep and just overall better wellness. And when I had Dr. J on the show earlier in 2025, it really spoke to me because his platform was founded out of out of physical pain and the determined society was founded out of emotional pain. And so it felt natural for us to partner up. So here are an official partnership with therabody and I want to talk to you about some of their products today that I've been enjoying that I think you need to understand and know more about so you could potentially implement them into your life. And I'm not going to get into a big deep dive of the actual science and everything like that. I'm just going to give you some anecdotal information based on the products that I'm using and that my wife is actually using too, that is helping us out a great deal at home. Because the great thing about these products, guys, is you can use them anywhere. You can use them in the gym, you can use them at home, in your bed, in your living room. Hell, you can even drive with a Thera Theragun Pro plus in your car and use it on your quads, use it on your arms, whatever that is. The first thing I want to talk about is the Theragun Pro plus. I bring that in my gym bag every day to the gym. And when I'm warming up, I use it to warm up. I put it on my arms. Whatever body part I'm using that day, I activate those muscles. And what I find is I'm able to move my body a lot quicker and I'm a lot stronger on those days that I do actually bring it and utilize it. I just think it's a great way to understand your body and the connection between your strength and your muscles and being warm and being able to perform because it's one thing to go work out, but it's another thing to perform while you're doing it. And the Theragun Pro plus helps me do that. Another thing that I really truly enjoy is the jet boots Pro plus. These things are wire free. There's no hassle, there's no cords, there's infrared LED light, there's that compression therapy. And I've been having bad pains in my ankles, both of them, actually, for about a year. And I don't understand where it's coming from. But when I started using the boots religiously after a leg day or after a cardio session, I throw those boots on and I find myself a lot looser. Afterwards, I find myself lighter, and then the next day there's no pain in my lower extremity like my feet. The other thing that I really enjoy is that product really helps me recover a lot quicker. And let's face it, that's the most important thing when we're trying to move our bodies or we're trying to succeed in life, is we want quick recovery emotionally and physically. And these products help me do that, and they can help you do that as well. One of the other things that I really want to go into, because it's helping my wife out a ton with headaches and being able to distract from the noise in her mind, and honestly, it helps me with that too, is the Smart Goggles. Whenever we feel a slight headache coming on or, or things are getting really heavy just in our minds, just thinking about all the stressors, all the things out there that we can't control, we throw the goggles on, get in a quiet place, and there's. There's different cycles on there and different intensities of vibrations and massaging that you can either turn it up or turn it down. And what I really enjoy is it allows me to focus on what's going on with just me. And I think about things and the massaging with the Smart goggles relieves either headaches and it relaxes me and relaxes my wife to a point where we can fall asleep better. We are preparing to kind of downshift and shut down and slow down for the evening. So I heavily recommend them. The other thing it's really good for is just creating a peaceful time in your day. And what I found since using the Smart Goggles and then the other products is it works for me, it works for my family, and I know it can work for you, too. So I want you guys to think about things that you are struggling with. If it's lower back pain or you wake up in the morning, your neck is tight, I'm going to tell you, the Theragun Pro plus will help that out. They have cold therapy on it, hot therapy. I mean, think about that. When I open that box and realize that I could have heat therapy and cold therapy and a. Theragun changed everything for me and also really made the thing that I hate doing the most is warmup. Made that very easy for me just by applying it to the muscle group that I'm going to use before I do it and in between sets, which promotes quicker recovery between sets. So if you're looking to go high volume or to lift heavy weights, I strongly consider that all these products are there to help you move along in your day with less pain and recover quicker. So go check it out, because now, like I said, the official partnership has begun. And from now until the end of March, in your first order, you get 15% off your first order, not every order. So if you're gonna buy some stuff, load up there in that cart for that first time, and you get 15% off, go to therabody.com and at checkout, the code is determined. So let me know how you guys like it. Until then, stay determined. Yeah, so let's get into that, man. You know, let's go back to cinco de Mayo 2008. You know, you're. You've got a ton of cash in the car. You know, you've got a ton of weed in your trunk, right? And you're going with your friends to pick up some oxycontin. What happened?

[Doug Bobs]

So that was, like, the biggest setback in my life that turned into the biggest blessing. So at this time, I'm 20 years old, I'm 40% body fat, I'm addicted to opiates, cocaine, weed, everything, and I'm selling drugs on top of that. And so nothing else mattered in my life but those things, but doing and selling drugs. And I say that because I had a busted headlight that I had been told to fix forever. But I was like, man, it would take too much time away from my ability to do or sell drugs. So I didn't worry about it. So, Cinco de Mayo, 2008. I'm riding with a few of my friends to make a drug deal. There's a cop running radar, and I thought it would be a great idea to flash my high beams at the cop to hide the fact that I had a busted headlight. Of course, it gave me. Gave him a reason to pull me over because he's like, why is this moron high beaming me? You know what I mean? And then I see the sirens go on. My heart starts racing. I just feel like butterflies in the pit of my stomach. I mean, I knew that my life was over in that moment. At least I thought pulls me over, he starts questioning me. I struggle to get my license and registration out, and pulls me out of the car, puts me in handcuffs and finds a half pound of pot that was in my trunk, finds $2,000 in cash in my glove box, a scale, a couple other things, and I'm in handcuffs, and I'm in the back of this cop car. And I remember this vividly. And I remember sitting in the back of the cop car and just sitting and saying to myself, like, how did I get here? Like, how did I get to this place where I'm now arrested on felony drug charges, not understanding what's going on, not understanding if I'm going to live to see my 25th birthday, all these things. And it came down to my inability to deal with discomfort and stress and anxiety and to stand up for myself and confidence. And so I get taken to jail that night, and I'm charged with a felony possession with the intent to distribute marijuana. And then shortly after that, I go to court in September of 2008, and the judge, in my opinion at that time, had thrown the book at me, meaning he gave me the worst possible sentence, the worst possible sentence, and that I was going to jail. He looked at me, he said, doug, you know, you're 20 years old. This is really bad. You're clearly guilty. You know, they had to scale money in a bunch of pot. Like there was nothing else they needed to prove that I was selling drugs, Right? Exactly.

[Sean]

Dead in the water, baby.

[Doug Bobs]

He said, but I'm going to give you a deal. And I'm thinking to myself, like, where's the deal going to be? Because I know I'm going to jail. He's like, I'm sentencing you to five years, but everything's going to be suspended. But 90 days. But 90 days. So for the people who are listening or watching, who aren't familiar with it, that means that I go to jail for 90 days, and if I. If I violate probation, if I commit another crime, I could go back before him and he could give me the full five years if I mess up again. Then he gave me five years of probation, which, when you're on probation, you got to pee in a cup regularly, got to meet with an officer, you got to do classes, you got to do all that stuff. 200 hours of community service, all kinds of fines and drug classes. But he looked at me and he said, doug, you're young. You're 20 years old. This felony conviction is going to haunt you for the rest of your life. He said, I'm going to give you a break. If you complete everything, every single thing, without messing up, no missed probation appointments, you do the jail time, everything, I will take away your guilty conviction and give you probation before judgment at the end of the five years. So that essentially means a free pass. It's still on the record, but I'm not a guilty conviction anymore. And so I thought to myself, I'm like, well, I'm high in court. I'm going to get high when I leave. You know, I'd already been to friends funerals at this point in my life. I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to live to see my 25th birthday, but what other choice do I have? I'll take the deal. And so he gives me a few weeks to gather my belongings, and I end up being able to celebrate my 21st birthday with my friends. And about a week after, I reported the jail, and the first thing I had to do was detox, cold turkey from OxyContin. And when I went into jail, I cried because I didn't want to go in because of all the fears that we know with what jail looks like. And every fear I had in my mind, I thought was going to happen. All of them. But the day I left jail, I actually cried because I didn't want to leave. And the reason is this. When I first reported the jail, I had this horrible opiate detox to go through for weeks. And it felt like having the worst case of the flu for weeks straight. And then my soon to be cellmate Eric, who looked like a more jacked version of Brad Pitt from Fight Club, he looked at me and he's like, you're gonna start working out with me when you get through your detox. I remember saying, I went, man, there's no way I'm gonna be able to work out with you. Like, I could be a model for Pillsbury right now. That's how like Doughy I was, right? And he was just like, he's got, man, whatever. And so shortly after that, we have a conversation in the cell that changed my life. He looked me in the face, and he's talking to me just like any. Just like, if you and I were, like, having a conversation as friends and I was going through something, you would probably ask me some questions. Same what I would do with you. So he starts asking me some questions. He says, doug, like, why are you in jail? What happened? And I start blaming my friends, I start blaming my parents. I start blaming everything else but myself. And instead of him coddling me, which I was used to. He looked at me and he said, quit being a. And I was like, man, what did he just call? Because you don't want to. I mean, it's bad enough you get called a in jail in real life, but you don't want to be ever be called that in in jail, right? Like, it's not, not, not a good thing to be called.

[Sean]

Not a term of endearment, that's for sure.

[Doug Bobs]

And so I said, what do you mean? Like, why, Why'd you say that to me? He's like, you're blaming everybody else for your problems but yourself. He said, there's plenty of people that grew up just like you did had the same experiences that aren't in jail. Right, Doug? I said, yep. He said, you have two choices. Be a man, look yourself in the mirror and say that you got yourself here, or be a bitch, go cry in the corner and say, woe is me, and feel sorry for yourself. He's like, most people will take that route because it's easy and it feels a lot better in the moment. And at that time, a lot of the drugs come out of my system. This guy came into my life with no real skin in the game. He wasn't a good friend of mine at the time. He wasn't a relative. And I just said, all right, he's right. What else do I have to lose? And so, all right, man, I'll try to work out with you. And bro, as a guy that was insecure, not confident, fat, like all the things, my biggest fear was I'm going to get out in front of all these men and try to do a push up, and I'm going to collapse and they're going to laugh at me. And so I get down to a push up from my feet, I could collapse immediately. Then I get down and try to do one for my knees collapse. No one laughed at me, which was very rewarding. So I was like, man, okay, it's not that bad. But I was like, man, Eric, like, why can't I do a push up? He's like, you're fat. He's like, well, he's like, I'm not going to sheer code it. He's like, your core is weak. You got a bunch of body fat. You have no upper body strength. You're completely deconditioned and you can't hold yourself up to do a push up. So for the next few months while I was in jail, he committed to training me every single day during my sentence. And he. He had obviously done This a time or two before, because he knew the prescription. It wasn't like, all right, let's do a set of 10 push ups. He's like, all right, man, we're going to start with holding yourself up in a plank position from your knees. Can we do that?

[Sean]

Cool.

[Doug Bobs]

Then I master that from the feet or from your. Without your knees.

[Sean]

Cool.

[Doug Bobs]

Then it was like, can you hold yourself up, you know, in a push up position from your knees.

[Sean]

Cool.

[Doug Bobs]

Let's go down and try to do a pushup. And so we worked our way up through that process of going from not being able to hold myself up from my knees to being able to do a set of 10 pushups by the time I left my jail sentence. And the same thing happened with running. Like, I was fat. And so deconditioned when I entered jail, I could barely walk up and down the steps because I was also smoking cigarettes. And in jail, there's no, like, treadmills, at least where I was. No treadmills, no ellipticals. There's no formal quote unquote gym. But we had a perimeter around the common area and we had a deck of cards. And so every time I would, I would finish a lap, I would pass a card from my left hand to my right hand so I could track the distance by that. And then so one thing leads to the next with that. And I went from barely being able to walk to being able to run a mile by the time my sentence was over. And all of that changed me. Why? It changed me because it taught me to get comfortable being uncomfortable. Like, I was so scared, dude, when I got to jail, I was a zombie. Like, I mean, people called me a zombie. I was going through opiate detox. I was a nervous wreck. But it changed me. It got me comfortable, embracing discomfort. It taught me how to manage my emotions effectively because there was times where I was anxious, I was stressed, I was sleepless, all the things. But I couldn't act out because I would have either gotten my butt kicked, sent to a different area that I didn't want to be, or gotten more time. It also taught me the importance of just showing up even when I didn't feel like it. There was times I didn't want to to work out. There was times I didn't want to do the thing, but I had to because this guy held me accountable. And the other thing was, it really taught me that, you know, it's never too late to change your life. Like, I wanted more for myself. I just didn't. I didn't have the blueprint on how to do it. And with him helping me and giving me these tools along the way, and it really shaped my outlook on where I was headed to. And it got so, like, I guess, sunny for me towards the end of my sentence that I cried the day I left jail because this transformation had happened so intensely that I didn't know how I was going to survive without being behind bars, as crazy as that sounds. And he gave me a workout plan that's framed right here. So behind me on that shelf. So you can never. So I never forget where I came from.

[Sean]

And that's badass.

[Doug Bobs]

Got out in the rest is history, man.

[Sean]

Dude, you know, one thing that I want to highlight as listening to you anytime I have up in my life, right, it doesn't have to be a massive, you know, jail sentence for anybody. It could just be. There's a moment where you just up, right? When you see people doing things that aren't great decisions, it all points back to one thing. We're seeking comfort in that moment. You know, if you're an addict, it's. It's comforting to be high because that's how you're escaping, right? Because you're not taking any accountability. So my thing is, like, listening to this. And for the audience, guys, like, really listen. And if you need to rewind back and listen to what he's saying is like. Like, the comfort is really what brought you there. And you had to get super comfortable with being uncomfortable. And it's something that this show, in the conversations that we have here, always land on. It's like, you wanna. You. You want a hard life, you better choose the comfortable route. If you want an easy life and you want to be fruitful, then choose the hard path. Be uncomfortable in the moment. You make that switch mentally is the moment you take off. Because every single day, if I'm comfortable, bro, I. I freak the out. Like, I. I don't like feeling comfortable, man. Like, so if I'm in the gym, I'll try something different. Oh, it's a leg day. Cool. I'm gonna try something different. I hate Bulgarian split squats, but you know what? I think they're the devil. But if I don't do them, I'm seeking comfort, right? So I'll play games with myself. And then the next thing that I have to do, right, Maybe a hard conversation with a. With a colleague or my wife or my children. It's like you're so conditioned to do the hard thing that you don't even think about it anymore. You just do what's right.

[Doug Bobs]

And what makes it harder is that when you're in these intense moments, like you just want to feel like things are going to be okay.

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

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[Doug Bobs]

when people use drugs in that moment, it feels like things are going to be okay because you're checked out. So you're not thinking about the stress, you're not thinking about the relationship issues. You're not thinking about what happened yesterday because you're numb. And then you wake up the next day. Crap, that feeling's back. So now I need more and more. It's a tough, it's a tough battle. But you're right, like we're so afraid of discomfort and without discomfort there would be no change, right? Like if I, if, if I were doing the drugs and I was younger and life was good, I probably wouldn't have changed my life. I wouldn't have needed to. And that's why you see so many people that are functioning addicts because I mean, they can make a million dollars a year and drink a bottle of wine a night. And to be honest, there's a Good chance they might not have the same problems that a lot of other people have because they're going to have financial stability. Maybe they can buy their way into certain relationships. Maybe they can buy things for their kids that buy them some time or to take away from the pain where people be like, well, you know, it's not. He's not that bad at home. He buys me a new car every year. He pays the bills or whatever. Because I think that's. That's a thing that happens so much. And it's like, what's the thing that there's a funny. A really funny. I think a. I don't know if a comedian said this or not, but it's like, what's something that's really cool for rich people to do but frowned upon for broke people to do is day drinking, you know,

[Sean]

that's so true. So true.

[Doug Bobs]

Oh, and I don't think that either of it's okay. Like, I think if you have a problem and you're drinking during the day, you should definitely get help. But we look at people like, on the side of the street who were drinking as problems, but then we don't address the same problem with people that, you know, do it in privately. And again, I don't want to get into, like, the politics of it. I understand that people who are, like, out on the street, like, have a lot of them have mental health issues. And I'm not talking about. I'm just saying if you look at, like, the action, the behavior, I think we tend to view things a little bit differently sometimes.

[Sean]

Well, there's a double standard there for sure, right? I mean, certainly there is, man. I mean, like, it's irrefutable. I mean, you. You look at somebody that. That is poor, maybe even homeless, like, oh, you're drinking during the day, that's why. But if you're rich and you're a multi millionaire, it's like, well, you're clearly taking care of your. It's fine. You're a millionaire. It doesn't necessarily make it right, but people justify it because they look at that. That metric of income as the ultimate measurement. And really, even though that multi millionaire is functional in their career, making a ton of money, the alcohol may not be the. The. That mean the alcohol may not be affecting that part of their life. But what about their children? What about their marriage? What about their friendships? Like, those parts of their lives can be completely blown up and we don't know. So I just think that, hey, look, you want to go out there and Day drink. You want to drink, Period. I don't drink anymore, period. Not because I'm super against it or anything like that. It's just I don't feel good on it. Like, so what's the point, right? Like, if I do it right, I used to say, well, I only do it during college football season, right, because it's where I found my comfort on game days, right? I would get drunk, I would escape from the week, I'm stressed out. And I was like, wait a second, no, no, we're not doing that any longer. It was uncomfortable for me to make that switch, right, because people judged me and they still do, you know. Oh, where's the fun, Sean? I'm like, I'm a blast. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling great, dude. Like, I can have an intelligible conversation with you today and not forget what the, we talked about yesterday, you know, and then I can wake up. And the most important and the, the best part is, Doug, I can wake up and actually be a present father.

[Doug Bobs]

Well, you bring up a really good point because you asked me earlier. Is the identity part is that what makes or breaks people from surviving addiction and changing their life? I would say a close number two or even up there with that is confidence. And the reason I say that is not because you have to feel like you're on top of the world all the time, but if you're not a confident person, you will not believe in your ability to change your life. If you're not a confident person, you're going to get the, the stuff like people say to you, like, oh my God, don't be a wuss. Like, come on, where's the fun, Sean? And you're not going to stand up for yourself and you're going to drink and you're going to destroy your, continue to destroy your life if you're not confident, your energy is just going to be off putting for people. So I think you have to go through it to build that confidence. I think part of building confidence is surviving those storms. People think that building immense amounts of confidence comes from getting from 0 to 100. It comes from 0 to 3, in my opinion. It's like there's initial steps of surviving the suck and believing you that you can get through difficult moments in your life because that's what shapes you, is can I survive hard times? Can I conquer things that scare me and can I commit to doing the things I want to do when it doesn't make sense to? It's easy for you to go to the gym now. And it's easy for you to show up on podcasts with me when you've been doing it for so long. What's tough is like when you weren't in shape and then figuring out a way to find the motivation to go to the gym or to podcasts when you had just your parents and your wife listening. You know what I mean? It's like those are the moments that when you show up and you still continue to do it, that's what builds confidence because you're creating some level of validation within yourself.

[Sean]

This is where I want the audience to really latch on. Right. We're talking about building confidence. And that recipe looks different for every individual. But I think there's only one real viable way to build confidence. Do the hard. Do the stuff that you said you

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

were going to do.

[Sean]

You know, even when the emotion of it wears off, you say you're gonna wake up at 6 and get to the gym. Then wake up in 6 and get to the gym. Because if you do that, it's a vote for you. It is a vote for that person that gets up and says, I'm going to do something, then they go freaking do it. Too many people are looking at it this way, though. I can have confidence if I just get in great shape and they make it about the vanity and the aesthetic portion of that confidence building. And that never sticks. It never sticks, man. It has to be you building the confidence by doing the damn work and staying in a frickin standard. And to me, that will give you an unbreakable amount of confidence. And when my wife started noticing the shift in me because of the nutrition, because of the lifting and you know, aesthetically what I look like, it's a lot different. You know, she said like that you used to have this thing and she always told me this, you have this. Everybody has confidence, like this confidence of reservoir. You have none in the reservoir. Like none. And it could be from your childhood, your upbringing, whatever it was. But for me, once I started building me from the inside out and changing that, that reservoir filled up. So you, you could literally two years ago tell me that my show is the worst show ever and you never come on my show and that would hurt me. Now it's like, okay, dude, whatever the you say, like that's fine, that's your opinion, but. And it's not an arrogant thing, is I built confidence up through doing the hard things and sticking with everything I said I was going to do. That built a Confidence level to me that it just, it can't be broken unless I break it myself by not doing the things I said I was going to do.

[Doug Bobs]

I'm really glad that you brought up this, this point because like, I remember when I was getting into shape, I was like, when I get this, my problems will go away. And for me that was like, I want six pack abs, I want 5% body fat, I want veins going through my arms. And I got that stuff. And I also got a lot of attention from women. Like, I got everything that I thought I wanted, but because I didn't build that myself because that the well was being filled from all that other stuff and not for myself, it didn't feel right. Like it reinforced that cognitive dissonance I referred to earlier where I didn't feel validated properly. And I could say the same thing about like what I do now in the content creation space. Like, you know, I remember I was like, man, I can't wait to like get the silver plaque from YouTube from hitting 100,000 subscribers. I'm going to be so happy. And then you get it. It's like, yeah, I mean, I love it. And thank props to YouTube. I love YouTube. But I, I remember getting it. I'm like, man, it doesn't feel as good, it doesn't feel as sweet as I thought it would. I still have to do the thing, I still have to show up, I still have to like create more stuff. And it got me to think like, man, like that whole, I don't know who, who coined it, but that whole, like, when I get there complex, like, when I get this, I'll be happy. When I get this, I'll be happy. It just shows how true it can be. And if you're not careful, it'll really hold you back. And it's not to say that you can't set goals and you can't be proud of doing the stuff that we do. It's more like, where is that leading you? Is it leading you to pursue more just for the sake of pursuing more? Or is it leading you to do things because you actually in your heart want to do them? And it's like me getting that plaque, it was great because it had just shown how hard I've worked. But if I, if I wasn't careful, I could have been like, oh my God, like, I'm the man this is the end all be all for. Why I do what I do is these trophies, right? And so that's something that I, I wouldn't say. I Struggle with it. Like, it limits me. But I think about it a lot. I think because especially in our world where our level of success from the outside, it's. People see it. We have a scorecard, right? Like, people can see how many followers you have, how many followers I have, how many subscribers I have. You have reviews, comments. People see that if you're an accountant, if you're like a financial planner, I mean, unless you really piss someone off and you get a really bad Google review or something, people aren't seeing the scorecard. So if you're not careful, it can be a trap that you fall into, which I'm really. Which is why I'm really thankful that I've done a lot of work on myself before getting into this space. Because otherwise, I mean, if I had been the Doug of the younger me, I'd be a freaking nightmare, dude.

[Sean]

I know that. Sean, back in the day. I don't. I don't. I didn't like him.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah.

[Sean]

You know, he. He doesn't need to come out and play, like, ever. Like, ever. He needs to stay in the past. He can stay where he's at. Really, really funny thing. Like, dude, how did you get your plaque? I. I never got one.

[Doug Bobs]

Really? Did you, like, fill out the form?

[Sean]

What form?

[Doug Bobs]

I think they. They send you. I forget how it went down, but they sent me like, a. A thing. Like an email. I think that was a congratulations, I think. Or maybe you. I forget if I had to submit something. But then, like, they validate Interesting. Like the channel and everything. And then, yeah, I got the plaque, like, not too long after that.

[Sean]

I'm gonna have to figure that out. That'll be a cool thing to have.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, Definitely look interesting. I mean, I. Yeah, I mean, I know, but I do know for me, I was like, I can't wait to get 100,000 subscribers. And then it was like, I can't wait to get 150. And then you have to say to yourself, like, what's the bigger picture here? Because if you're just chasing numbers, eventually that. That gets old. So I had to be like, all right, I want to create, like, it's

[Sean]

such a dangerous game, bro. Like, and like, dude, like, what you're saying right here, like, I'm loving this portion of the conversation because I'm the same way. I remember sitting there waiting for us to hit a million listens in a year. And in 2024, we finally did it. We hit it in November. Okay. And I thought it was going to be this massive moment where everybody just bowed down. Dude, that ain't like. That wasn't. I look back now, I'm like, that wasn't anything. And once I got there, I had, like, two days of, like, just in the. Like, just destroyed, like, what now? Oh, my God, I feel so empty. And so for the audience is, I want you to picture this. If you sit there and say, and you're chasing something, you're chasing a number for us, you know, in the content creation and the artwork of actually having a show and crafting meaningful conversations, like, our scorecard's wide open for everybody. Like, if you have the software, you can look, right? You can literally find everything you need to know about me, about Doug, and everything that we do. It's on display. But the win is not in the attainment of that number. It is who you become in the process of it, Right? Everybody talks about it's become cliche, but it's true. It's like, literally who you are becoming while you're chasing that number. That's the gift. Kobe Bryant talked about it all the time. Like, those moments in the buildup that. That is the moment. The attainment's the attainment. So now we fast forward, right? And it's like, we did what we were doing in a year, in a month now. And now I'm like, I need to get to 4 million a month. I need to get to 5 million a month. You're always going to be searching for that next level, and it's okay. If you are becoming something so strong and focusing on that portion of it, then I think you can afford to be a little bit, okay, what's next? But if you let it control you, it can take away every ounce of your freaking joy.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah. One of the things that I think people assume, at least I thought that when I get, like, this amount of subscribers or views or whatever, that I'll be able to get, like, all the A list guest everybody wants on their show, right? The issue is everybody wants them. And frankly, they don't need your channel. They don't need the exposure. They have their own. And so it becomes this kind of crazy game, I guess, in our space, that if you're not careful, you end up spending so much time and effort to lock in a huge guest, and then either that guest isn't aligned with your audience, or maybe they aren't as good as you thought they were, whatever. And then it takes away from your ability to hit, like, the consistent singles and doubles, which is what I try to do with my show is like, hey, like, is it cool to get. Is it amazing to get somebody like Patrick Bet David, of course. Amazing guest, awesome combo. Like, one of the best episodes I've ever done. But those don't always happen, you know, and if I were to like, chase that every single time, I would miss out on these opportunities of just hitting singles and doubles, like, every episode, like, all right, like, good, solid guests for the show. Just keep it in bounds, you know what I mean? Like, instead of like grand slam after grand slam. I mean, the reason a grand slam is so impressive is because it's very rare that it happens, right? If it happened all the time, people wouldn't. It wouldn't be as interesting.

[Sean]

You know, it's so funny because it's like, I think in terms of the same. Same as you. I was talking to production earlier and we're going through a bunch of different things that, you know, we had. I had coming and, you know, you know, potential travel for. For guests and things of that nature. Some home runs, right? And I started thinking about the manufacturing runs because I'm a baseball guy, right? I'm gonna walk bun somebody over, drive them in, and then we're gonna get a base hit and we're gonna hit and run. And so, like, I just feel like if every single time you record, if you're staying, like you said, inbounds with your show on brand and you're having meaningful conversation, you can take what you think is a single, and that could be a marquee interview.

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

Are you a trailblazer, A risk taker? Someone with countless tales of epic adventure? Well, I'm not quite there yet, but

[Sean]

I'm working on it.

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

Even the boldest among us start off small, daring themselves to reach greater goals each day. If you're looking to take on a challenge like that, the Defender is too. It's a vehicle built for drivers capable of great things, whether they're head towards an uncharted territory or. Or just a weekend getaway. A vehicle that, like you, is capable of great things. Defender was engineered to meet challenges head on, so you can explore with confidence. Has a tough, rigid body design that's been tested to the extreme. Luxury appointments throughout ensure your adventure is in comfort. 3D surround cameras with clear sight ground view let you see underneath the vehicle and anticipate obstacles in rough terrain. The Defender event is on now. Explore enhanced offers at land Rover USA.com

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Sean]

you don't know the energy and the conversation that's going to come out of that guest with you. I have been so surprised at certain guests that I've had on that were local people. I'm like, all right, cool, I'll do it. And it turns out to be a banger episode because they were so open and it was on brand and then people were inspired by it because they could relate to them. So sometimes the singles or the hit by pitch turn into a home run and you just don't know. So you just have to stay in line and on brand and execute everything you can because that's the only thing you can control, dude.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, it is. And you just never know. It's like, you know, you see a lot of people, they'll have these huge names on, they have massive followings. And I guess the theory is, which logically it makes sense, but once you've been in the game long enough, you know, it doesn't, is that this person has 50 million followers on social media. I'm just throwing that number out as an arbitrary, as an easy number. That means that 50 million people are going to listen to my podcast if I have that person on. Right?

[Sean]

That's funny. That's funny.

[Doug Bobs]

And it doesn't work that way. And on top of that, like, odds are like, if you host a show like mine and yours where you're like trying to reach people that are on the come up or people that are trying to inspire themselves and that are normal, average people, so to speak. Like somebody who, you know, who's worth $50 million, they're not going to relate to as much as somebody like listening to you or other people that are more in their sphere. Like, it's like it's, it's harder to be, like, it's harder to relate to, relate to somebody's problems like that because, like, oh, they got $50 million, they got all these f. They can just buy their way out of anything. Like, I can't, you know, I'm kind of screwed right now. So how does that relate to me?

[Sean]

Well, you're right, though. You're right. Because we Went on a long run where we were having celebrity after celebrity after celebrity, you know, bestselling author after best. I mean, New York Times bestselling authors, right? And I thought it was cool. But then I saw, like, a disconnect. You know, there was the audience going, what happened to the stories? And it turned into a PR tour. Instead of giving value to the audience, so quickly shifted on a dime. 180, I go, I'm not doing this anymore. Because I was starting to feel disconnected. And if I feel disconnected, my audience is going to sleep, right? So we. We changed it. And to your point, though, the feedback was, we love a big guest because we love to see you do well, right? We love seeing you in rooms with Jay Leno and William H. Macy and those big names. But that's not necessarily what gets a platform to go. What gets a platform to go is the ethos around it is the. Is the very, very foundation of what you are trying to help people with, what you're trying to exude. And that is a fine line for people like us to kind of toe and dance on. It's like, all right, is this going to do well? And a lot of times I have to sit there and I don't know what your process is. When I'm pitched, a guest, right? Or someone, you know, slides into my DMs, like, hey, I'd love to be on your show. Like, it happens a lot, right? And those people typically, honestly don't get on because there's a process. You know, you either get introduced to me from a good friend like Kwame, right. Or, you know, pr or somebody else's pr. Or I'm, like, very interested in what you're doing, because I can see it, right? But I just think it's super important when you're vetting these guests out in these conversations is like, what's the message? I don't care if they have 200 followers. I don't care if they've got 200 million. What's the story? What can my audience get out of it? Can my audience relate? And if they can relate, I do it because it's my job to be the gatekeeper for them. I gotta bring him. Good.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, I. I have a similar. I have a similar process. I mean, I get hit up a lot, too, and I get tons of pitches that I think most of them at this point are AI. Like an AI, probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or these mass emails. That's like, I really enjoyed your episode with so and so. And they pitched me a Guest that has nothing to do with that topic. You know what I mean? And so reminds me of my guest

[Sean]

that I want to pitch you.

[Doug Bobs]

But you're right, it's either through like friends, it's through relationships with PR people I've built in the past. It's also like, what are the core themes of my show that I want to hit on? Like, you know, it's mental health, addiction, it's wellness, it's mindset. And where can I find the people that fit into that? In topics that interest me. And it's been, it's evolved over the. There was a point where I would be like, all right, I'll have that person on. They have a cool story or. But then, then there was times where I'm like, man, like, I got to be 100% dialed, like you said into the conversation. Or I'm like, I'm like tapped out because I get kind of bored, you know, if I'm not interested in, in the conversation. But, you know, you look at somebody like Andrew Huberman, who I've known for a long time before he had the podcast, he's got an amazing show and content he has on like scientists that have zero platform a lot of times, you know what I mean? And the episodes do well. And it's because he's a really effective communicator. He stays on brand with what he says he's going to talk about. And he's incredibly smart and engaging in these conversations. And that's a take home message for me because, you know, I remember I had coffee with him a few years ago and we were just talking shop and he's like, he said to me, he's like, hey, man, like, just remember it's going to be easy to chase trends and to try to hit the home run, but just like, be consistent, be consistent. And it was at a time where I needed to hear that message because, you know, I. It's easy to like, get caught up in what's popping off or people that you want to have on that are famous and, and stuff. But you're right, like, if you don't make the call for yourself, you're kind of. You're screwed long term because then the audience will disengage.

[Sean]

Just great advice from Huberman, man, because that right there is a real dude, right? Because to your point and to his point, like, chasing trends, bro. People chase that in our industry all the time. I mean, hell, Candace Owen's still going.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, she is, isn't she?

[Sean]

On one topic, right? And I Mean, like, look, man, it's, it's a trend. It's something that's not going to die down for a very long time because people want answers, they're not going to get answers. And she's just going to keep cashing in those analytics, dude. But she jumped on a trend. I refuse to do that. You know, I want to have, like you were saying, and like Andrew was saying, have meaningful conversations. Your audience is coming to you for a reason. Give them what they want. You know, and for Andrew, I mean, his audience wants information, you know, they, they want to learn. So having a scientist on is going to make much more sense for him than maybe somebody massively, massively famous because the audience isn't going to connect with it because they're not going to get the value. It's unrelatable.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, but I mean, these, these shows, like, we, that we really, I think, admire early or inspire us or like, oh my God, their, their show is awesome. We like them, I think, because they're authentic and because they stay true to their own selves and their brand and not chasing after trends. I remember when the politics became the thing to chase after in the self help space. Like, oh my God, now I got to talk about politics because that's what the algorithm wants. I refused. I said, I'm not going to do it. I know I would probably make more money, I would get more reach. My business will probably suffer if I don't, but it's just not what I want to do.

[Sean]

You got to stay in line, man.

[Doug Bobs]

You know, and I know, I know nothing about it.

[Sean]

Yeah, seriously, me neither. It's like, what am I, what am I going to talk about? It's just going to be me regurgitating, regurgitating some other person's information or learning about it on a fly. And that's not authentic, man. You can't, you can't create great content that way. You need to fully be behind it or else, like you said, like, you'll tune out, it'll be gone. Like, we've, I think we've all had those interviews, right? We're sitting there, it's like, like we're almost at an hour right now and it's been like, it feels like five minutes. We've all been on a conversation that's been 50 minutes long and it feels like a eternity. Those, those are moments where you have to evaluate did I do the right thing or was it just the energy from the guests? Right. Like, sometimes it just doesn't work, man. It is, it Just doesn't, you know, let's fast forward a little bit because we're coming down to towards the back part of the show and, and I want you to, you know, go back to the day, you know, you said you cried when you got out, you know, because that's where you built yourself. You had this unshakable amount of determination, discipline and accountability. Right? But now we fast forward and now you're this award winning certified trainer. You're a three time author, you're. You have a podcast, you work with people and building their confidence and their bodies up. Walk the audience through what you are doing now.

[Doug Bobs]

So it's been a long journey. You know, I was never the confident person I am now. I was never a speaker like this outgoing and all this was built through adversity. And I share that because I think everybody assumes or they think, I think they know that this isn't true. That it's just like you go from like 0 to 100 super quick. It's like, no, you go from 0 to 1, from 1 to 1.2 to 1.3. Maybe you jump to 1.7 and then like over time you're like back down to 0.5. Exactly. And, and so when I got out of jail, you know, I was still like a mess. You know, even though I had my life changed, I had to work on myself and dealing with cravings and, you know, getting into fitness really helped change my life and change my mindset. But then when I became a trainer because I wanted to help other people, like use the gift of fitness, that gave me an easy platform to share my story. And it took a while because at first I was so ashamed of, of that. You know, it was like, oh my God, are these people who are paying me a lot of money, are they going to still trust me if I'm a felon, if I was in jail, do they think I'm going to steal from them? You know, like stigma exists with people that were incarcerated. It's just a real thing, right? And so I hid it for a while. I never lied, but I kind of just danced around the question when people would ask me. But anyway, one day one of my clients asked me, so what happened? Can you just tell me? And I'd shared my story, like, you know, the highlight reel. And she's like, oh my God, like I thought the world of you already. And now I really think the world of you. Congrats. I was like, man, like, that's cool. Like they're not going to judge me. And so I really started to think about. I started to think about this idea that if the people. The people that are going to judge you for something that happened and that you've already worked through, then they're not meant to be in your life and you shouldn't listen to them. I mean, if you're still, like, doing the thing, I can understand people judging you because it's, like, very easy to do so. Right. And then I realized that it's not that scary to just be honest. And so I started to share my story more with people. And then I did local media and would talk about fitness, and then people were interested in my story and did a lot of local press. And then that led to, like, other national media opportunities from the Today show and Men's Health. It didn't impact theory of Tom Bilyeu and Rich Roll's podcast. Like, all these cool things that have helped me build the credibility and the platform that I have today. And also it helped that I have stayed on the straightened arrow as far as my recovery. And the felony came off my record. I followed through with what I told the judge I would do, and in 2014, he took the felony conviction off my record and gave me that pbj. And now my record is completely expunged. I mean, I still have the docs, the receipts to prove it in case anyone's like, you're lying. You didn't go to jail. Like, I have the receipts to prove that I did actually. I was actually sentenced to jail. And. And so all of that being a trainer, speaking, like, starting with local media and then moving on to national media and building relationships, like, help prepare me for the podcast to, like, get on shows and see how they interview and be like, oh, I like that. What didn't I like? What? Man, that guy does a lot of research, and it made me feel special. Like, that kind of stuff to. To where I, you know, I have the show now that's called the Adversity Advantage, where, you know, I love having interesting conversations and helping people through hard times. Being a trainer is. Is still. It's still part of my business. It's not as big as it used to be because the show has grown so much and I've evolved into. To doing other things. But my big passion, like, right now, if you're like, hey, like, what is it that you want to be doing? And like doing, it's helping young men. There's a lot. There's a young men crisis that exists right now. You have a lot of young men that are lonely, they don't have girlfriends, they're addicted to weed, porn, vaping, like, everything, and they feel lost. And so, you know, I'm trying to kind of step into that space, you know, delicately, because I know that sometimes you get looped into the manosphere and everything else, which I don't.

[Sean]

Oh, my God. Here.

[Doug Bobs]

We don't want to be part of that.

[Sean]

No.

[Doug Bobs]

But I think, you know, I think I have some cool things to say, and I. I've mentored a lot of young men over the years, and I understand what their struggles are. So what I'm sharing here with you isn't like, me regurgitating headlines. It's like, no, I've worked with a lot of guys that have never had girlfriends or that, like, are afraid to ask a girl out where that vape all the time and smoke a bunch of weed. And they have mental health issues because of all that.

[Sean]

And.

[Doug Bobs]

And so it's really trying to tap into that as the next phase of my purpose in life is. Is trying to fill that void for them.

[Sean]

You know what's crazy is, like, I'm listening to your story, right? And it's so easy from the outside looking in, like, wow. That day, a cinco de Mayo, 2020, 20 2008. That's the moment your life started.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Like, literally the build from that point on, it was like the Lord said, hey, dude, you're not getting it. I'mma hit you with this. You're going to go rehabilitate. You're going to become stronger, and you're going to lead and help people. Did you ever think in a million years on that day that it would turn into something like this?

[Doug Bobs]

Nah, man. No way. Like, I went to so many funerals as a kid for friends of mine. And not just people that like, oh, my God, like, we were on, like, a sports team, like, five years. Like, people like that I saw the night before dead. And having to go to funerals when you're that age does two things to you. One, it numbs you out to pain into what death actually is because you mess up the circle of life. And then it also convinces you that maybe you're next. And because you convince yourself that maybe you're next, maybe you do things that just sabotage that for yourself. And the other thing that I will say is when I was in jail and when I was detoxing from opiates, you're going to probably want to clip this. When I was detoxing from opiates, there was a lot of Horrible symptoms that I went through. The vomiting, the bowel movements, the anxiety, the stress. But the thing that was hardest to deal with that now was the biggest blessing was this feeling of crawling out of my own skin where it felt like an old version of me was leaving. And as I look back now, years later, I can confidently say that I believe it was the old version of me leaving so that the new me can become born and healed was that symptom. And for anyone who's gone through detox, that feeling where you feel like your body is like trying to leave itself, but it can't because that would be kind of trippy. It's weird. And you're like, oh my gosh, like, I'm so restless. And it just feels like my, like my. I know you're a big theragun guy. Like, it just feels like the. That your legs are like a theragun and it's on all the time. You know what I mean?

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Doug Bobs]

Like a low level vibration.

[Sean]

Oh, man, that's intense, dude. That's intense because I don't have a frame of reference. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, like, I love hearing these stories because, you know, like, it's funny because, like, you know, I'm 47, dude. I got a lot of aches and pains, bro. I'm always throwing that thera gun on my ass. Like my, my elbows, my. My neck. And it'll rattle you, man. It's strong. And so when you made that reference between, like, hey, when you're going through detox and you're vibrating and you're like wanting to rush out of your skin, it's a lot like having a thera gun on you. Like, I can imagine, you know, that coupled with emotion of knowing what you're actually going through is super hard to handle, right? I mean, that, that to me sounds like the ultimate discomfort, dude.

[Doug Bobs]

It was the worst. I mean, those first few weeks in jail, I would never wish on anyone just because of all the emotional pain that I had to like, unravel through that process.

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[Sean]

You hold on to a coupon, hoping to cash it in at the store, but then you forget about it and suddenly you've got a mountain of useless expired coupons.

[Doug Bobs]

Do you think this one's still good? Free milk?

[Sean]

Oh, mate, that expired in 1993.

[Doug Bobs]

Dang it.

[Sean]

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[Doug Bobs]

Ooh, how about this one? Half off floppy disks.

[Sean]

Now you should try a bit of spring cleaning.

[Doug Bobs]

It feels good to save big. It feels good to Geico.

[Sean]

Do you ever ask yourself when you're in jail, detoxing? I got arrested, I got sentenced and I waited until I was about to go in to stop using opiates.

[Doug Bobs]

Did I ever ask myself, like, why I did that?

[Sean]

Like, what, what am I doing? Like, now I'm detoxing and pretty prison here. Like, this is crazy, you know?

[Doug Bobs]

Well, I kind of fooled myself because I had gotten a prescription of Suboxone which I you can only get prescribed if you fail a drug test for opiates. And Suboxone is like a modern day methadone where it helps you detox, helps you with cravings and stuff like that. So I, I snorted a bunch of oxycontin before I went in the jail thinking, all right, I'll be good tomorrow, I can take the Suboxone, help me through detox. But obviously I wasn't thinking clearly because it's a type of a narcotic that even though it's prescribed to me, I can't just take it in jail. So I was able to take it with me or whatever when I left. But yeah, I mean, I had this moment where you just start to cry and you lose it emotionally because you're like, why did I get here? How does the kid that, you know, just wanted to fit in had the kid who just wanted to be loved or good at sports or fill in the blank of all the stuff I wanted that I didn't have when I was younger, how did he end up behind bars and not Just behind bars. But now I'm a convicted FELON and I'm 21 years old. And the, the way that the path forward from that was so challenging because I had no, I had, I hadn't had. I didn't have any establishment in my life. I had 21 jobs by the time I was 21. I kid you not. I worked at every place imaginable where I live. Damaged relationships, fat and 40% body fat. You know, stuff with my family, mental health issues. And now on top of that, I'm in jail for a felon. So the weight that was on my back to be able to like walk from that moment was suffocating. It was suffocating. I think I saw a clip of yours where you talked about the backpack or something, and it's so true. I felt like I was carrying a 300,000 pound backpack at all times because of all that weight. And what helped it get lighter was every time I did another pushup, it was like confidence boost. Some of the weight came off. Every time I talked to myself in a different way. Every time I showed up for myself or didn't let certain things get to me, that weight started to feel lighter. But I mean, that backpack still isn't fully empty. I'd be lying. I think. I think people are like, oh my God. Like, I never struggle with anything. I typically don't spend time with them because there's a lack of awareness and security there.

[Sean]

Yeah, not my kind of person.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah. And obviously the backpack is way lighter than it used to be. And it doesn't like, weigh me down or whatever. But it took me a long time for that weight to come out because I had all these other problems that went away. Because fitness was. Is a great tool. And I think that if you're not careful, it can be the only tool you use. And then vanity creeps in and then you're like, oh my God, like, I gained a pound, so maybe I'm a loser. And then if you're not careful, you're kind of in the same trap you were before.

[Sean]

Yeah. Except the opposite. Right now you have this weird perfectionist complex where you think you have to look a certain way. I think the thing about fitness, man, you know, it changes lives, it changes mindsets, it changes discipline. You know, it changed your life. I really wish more people would get out of their own way. And this is kind of the plea to the audience now is if you're sitting there and, and, and you know, you need to move your body and you have been so Confused because of all the information coming at you on Instagram or the Internet. Just walk. Just. Just go for a damn walk and then do it again tomorrow. And then as you build your resilience and exercising, add more things. You know, go to the gym and lift two days a week. Because a lot of people, they go in there, you know, Doug, they're like, okay, I got to go five days a week. And they, they spent zero days a week in there in the last five years. Well, that's going to burn out pretty quickly. But the thing that I love fitness so much is not because of the way I way I feel physically or starting to look physically. It's because how it changed my life, how it changed my business, how it changed my show, how it changed how I perceive myself, how it changed how people perceive me. Like, it's not just a vanity or an aesthetic play. It is full on development. It is hard.

[Doug Bobs]

Well, 100%. And I'm going to go to a place where I think you'll appreciate one is with the fitness aspect. It's like, there's all this content and I'm, you know, I'm guilty of putting out content around this. So I am a little bit of like, how do you transform your body in a certain amount of time? Or how do you, like, master the best level of fitness possible? But I will say there's a lot of content within that content or outside of it that shows you the simple steps on how to go from that 0 to 5 in the fitness space. It's not, you know, couch to 5K, it's couch to, like, put your shoes on. Then from your shoes on, you're going outside. Then you're walking for five minutes. You're like, oh, okay, cool, this feels good. Let's do another minute. And then like, few weeks later, you're now like walking 10 minutes a day. And but you see this in other areas of life. I, I'm sure, like yourself, I get asked a bunch, hey, man, I'm starting a podcast. Like, what is your advice? Like, what kind of mic should I get? What kind of cameras? I'm like, bro, like, why don't you just start with recording an episode? Like, just start with recording an episode. And people are like, oh, my God. Well, what? I'm like, dude, like, I'm telling you, like, you're going to waste money. And I say that because obviously, unless you're coming into it with a lot of capital and a huge platform already, which 99% of the people who do it, I mean, don't come into it like that. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of time. It's not just your passion project, especially if you're going to dump a bunch of money into it that you don't necessarily have up front. There's going to reach a point where you're like, oh, this is a lot of work. And so it's easier to persevere and get through it when you're, like, already kind of mastering the art and the conversation. You don't have the best camera, you don't have the best, you know, setup necessarily, but you have the consistency of, like, starting from zero. You know what I mean? Like, and I think that. That I don't know about you, but I mean, when people ask me, like, oh, my God, like, should I get this camera? And I'm like, dude, like, I don't even have a camera like that. I've been podcasting for six years. Like, why would you get a camera like that?

[Sean]

You know, this is an interesting conversation because, like, I. I want to be. I want to be. I want to be gentle here. But at the same time, it happens too much. It. You know, it's. People see you doing your thing and then they want to reach out and say, and you don't even know them, right? And it's like, hey, can you help me launch my show?

[Narrator/Commercial Voice]

Yes.

[Sean]

But like, most of them want you just to do it. And like, literally they don't. They're not gonna pay you to do it. It's a service like launching a podcast. To your point, dude, it is the most down and dirty and gritty freaking thing I've ever done, man. And I've done some cool things, but, you know, when people come up to me and they over complicate these level 5 problems. What camera, what microphone? I go, I don't know. I go, I started my show from an iPhone talking like this and from in my vehicle, and I didn't ask anybody for their advice. That's the difference.

[Doug Bobs]

It's so true, dude.

[Sean]

That's the difference.

[Doug Bobs]

We. I forget the average, but so many podcasts end up quitting after I don't know how many episodes. And because they just, like, they realize how tough it is that they realize, like, oh, my God, like, I have seven downloads or whatever an episode, and they're like, oh, my God, how do I. Like, how do I move forward? And that's why I think it's important that if you're going to do it, invest the least amount of capital that you possibly can. So you don't feel terrible if your show only gets 10 downloads because there's a good chance, unless you already have an existing audience or you have the capital to spend on like marketing or running ads or whatever. Like it's not gonna, it's not gonna be what you think it's gonna be. And especially now, there is so much competition out there. You know, I would never want to steer anyone away from following their dreams because that's, that's just not, that's not healthy. That being said, I'm a realist and it's very tough out there. There's a lot of competition. It's a lot harder to launch a show now than it was 10 years ago because podcasting and YouTube has become the media. It's become where news channels, news anchors, they report the news, everything gets clipped up. And that is now on YouTube, which used to be, you know, kind of a different thing years ago, which props to YouTube for, you know, owning that, owning that real estate. But so, you know, you want to get into it for the right reasons and just being consistent and it's relatable for anything in life. Everyone's like, oh my God, I want to get married. Like, okay, like why don't you work, like start on like working on yourself and like becoming the person that someone would want, would want to marry. Why don't you like start with like not going out and partying on the weekends and just going and having coffee and like, you know, meeting like real people. I don't know, I might go on and on with these. It's a, it's a passion of mine, like you. Because I see it so much and I understand it because I was that guy. I was the guy that was like, oh my gosh, like once I get into fitness, I want to get these six pack abs, I want to do all this stuff and then I'm going to feel amazing, right? Once I start a podcast, I'm going to blah, blah, blah. And then you realize like, oh man, like this is work. It's tough, I love doing it, but it's, it's work. Like it's when you travel for the show, it's like people don't realize how expensive it is to film. Like I was talking to my wife, she's like, you know, why don't you do as many in person interviews? And I said, well, if I were to fly somewhere, were to fly to LA and I were to bank like 10 podcast interviews, flight to LA is like, you know, five to 700 hours round trip, depending on when I do it. Hotel for, you know, three or four days is going to cost me another thousand, $2,000. Running out of studio, it's a few hundred hours per hour. Then you got to get it edited. So all in, you're like looking at, I don't know, like five to seven grand just for that. Right. And making that back in our industry takes some time, you know, it's not like you're just.

[Sean]

Takes a long time, dude.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, so that's. That's my point, you know?

[Sean]

Yeah. And those are all great points. You know what I mean? I think it all comes back to, like you said, it's. With anything in life, you're going to do something, you better have a strong sense of purpose, of why you're doing. Can't be, because, like, man, I think I could do good here. I think, like, I think I could go viral. That. That is a horrible idea. That is a horrible idea to do anything in this industry. But if something is fulfilling for you and you know what direction you're going in, you know, what value you want to bring, somebody just lean on that. And eventually, eventually could be two, three, four years, but people will start to listen, you know, and they'll see that you've been around for a long time and they'll go and they'll listen to your whole catalog, and then they'll experience your growth real time. And then they will never leave you unless you really piss him off. But the bottom line is, is like, purpose, lean on purpose. Don't. Don't do it for the money.

[Doug Bobs]

Well, I know this whole follow your passion thing, I think. I think you have to be passionate about stuff, but I think it also comes in time, you know, And I say this because I love sports. I suck at golf. You know, I. I love basketball. I'm not going to play in the NBA. I'm passionate about basketball. I'm passionate about golf and football, even baseball, which is your world. I'm not playing professional sports. So it's like the same thing. It's like if I were to try my entire life to play in the NBA, I would be broke and miserable because just because I was passionate about it doesn't mean that I would be good. I could work. I could, but I can't jump. I can't. Like, I don't think I have, like, those skills, like the agility skills. I mean, could I work on it? Sure. But I think that would only get me to it so far. And I'm also 5, 8, 5, 9, you know, like, and being 5, 8, 5, 9th, not being able to jump, you know, I'm in a lot of trouble.

[Sean]

You're not Spud Web. Right? You can't. You know, it's so funny, man. Like, I. And I appreciate it, you know, because it's like, you can have passionate about something, but if it's not in the card, it's not your skill set. There's people. There's many people that are passionate about wanting to have a show, but when the camera flips on and the microphone's on, they wouldn't be able to do it, you know, because it's not. It's not as easy as it looks. It is very, very difficult. You know, you have to read energies. You have to understand where. If I ask this question, where can it take me down the road in five, ten minutes? And you have to know it like that. You don't have time to think about it. You have to think about it while you're talking and having that. That conversation. It's a. It's a skill set, man. It's a craft. It is. It is not easy. And you better be. You better be ready if you're getting into it, you know, and if we

[Doug Bobs]

had started this conversation, like, Doug, so happy to have you on, I'm like, oh, thanks, man. Thanks for having me. And I'm like, at those who are watching, listening on audio, I'm, like, hunched over, I've got Mike, my chin on my fist. And I'm sure you've. I've had conversations like this that don't end up getting released, where it's like,

[Sean]

oh, dude, I've had some doozies, bro.

[Doug Bobs]

Oh, where it's like, oh. And it's like, super short. It's like, dude, you could have just told me you didn't want to do the show, you know, and you. And you have to find a way to, like, navigate through that. And you give it a few minutes, but maybe they're nervous, maybe they're shy. Then you realize sometimes 20 minutes in, you're like, oh, this person is not wanting to be here right now. So you gotta, like, know when to.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Doug Bobs]

Thanks for coming on, you know? Yeah.

[Sean]

You know, it's like, you know, a lot of times I'll, you know, like, it doesn't happen very often anymore, but it has. And, you know, it was back when I was recording at home and things like that. I'd be like, hold on a second. Are you good? Like, are you okay? Like, are you Having a bad day? No, I'm great. Okay. Because you're not really giving me much. Like, you know, if you want to reschedule and do this again, we can do that, because right now, this interview is not going to go well because you're not open. But, I mean, it's hard to do that, too, when you're. When you're. When you're growing and when you're starting, because that takes a lot of confidence to be able to sit there and say, hold on a second. This interview isn't. This isn't in line with what I thought was going to happen. Are you okay? But we've all had those moments, man. It's. You know. But when you have someone who's excited about being on the show and you have somebody that's pouring into your audience, that's all I care about. I just want my audience to feel loved on. I want them to feel like they got value out of the conversation. I want them to feel like now, because of having Doug on the show, they can move forward in their life and maybe stop smoking weed, maybe stop day drinking. Right. Maybe get out there and move their body a little bit. That's a win.

[Doug Bobs]

It's a win, man. Yeah. I've had some doozies, too, where I've had to, like, send their recording to, like, somebody's team. Like, hey, you know, I don't think it's a good representation of their brand either. And like, oh, my God, like, yeah, please don't run this, because they obviously just weren't interested. Weren't interested. Which, you know, and that's a lot of the stuff you don't see behind the scenes of podcasting. You know, it's just the. The reality of it. But I think the art of podcasting is how do you get somebody to open up? And it's also like, hey, did I ask the right questions? Could I have done this better? And I. And I also think that, yeah, providing value is so important. Like, I don't, like, as much as I love to promote myself, and I hope people, you know, come over to my audience just as well. I. I don't come into it being like, oh, my God, I can't wait to, like, absorb Sean's audience. You know what I mean? It's like, how can I. How can I provide value? How can I. How can I build a relationship and develop rapport? Like, I love having conversations. It keeps me honest, keeps me on my toes. And I think if we just did things more with intention and authenticity, I Think the world would be a better place.

[Sean]

Yeah, I think you're right. You know, a lot of people don't understand that the, the absorption of somebody else's audience doesn't come from the show. It comes from how are you going to interact with them afterwards? And what do your people on social see you interacting with. With them about? And they go, hm, who's Doug? Oh, oh, that's. Yeah, he was on Sean's show. Let me go check his out now. Like, which, by the way, if you're listening, you need to go check his show out, right? They, you know, your, your, your links on everything, like your website will be in the show notes. People can go there and click. I encourage you guys to do it. I encourage you guys to do it. He's got great guests. He. And he's just an incredible person. So go and support him and listen to his damn show, damn it. Listen to it. You know, I, I just think that the, the. But the absorption of multiple audiences comes from the interaction after, like, how much do you still dive in with this person? And then your audience sees it and like, okay, well, if Sean or Doug is still hanging out with this person, then I need to pay closer attention. And sometimes it's a. It's more of a long tail, right. It's not immediate.

[Doug Bobs]

And that's the problem with, like, the book launches. Sometimes you get someone, they're so.

[Sean]

Jesus.

[Doug Bobs]

Yeah, like, I mean, I, I very rarely will be, like, talk to the person about their book specifically. I'll let them plug it, you know, of course. But I'm like, hey, you know, I want to talk to you about stuff that's within my audience and, and just to make it so it's not like, hey, you know, this person's only coming on the show to promote their book.

[Sean]

Yeah, those are hard, dude. I mean, we've been through it, man. We've been through it. But one more question for you, man, before we land the plane here. I would like to know what your official definition of determination is.

[Doug Bobs]

Determination. So it's a, It's a very thick word, right? It's long. And it's just. There's a lot of depth to it. To me, determination is making forward progress and effort even when it doesn't make sense to do so. Even when the validation isn't there, even when the money's not there. It's when you're determined, like, you just keep going no matter what, when it all costs.

[Sean]

Very good definition, man. It's not sexy, it's not loud. It's just sometimes it's putting on your damn shoes and walking out of the house and getting some fricking sunlight. That could be a determined day, depending on how you feel emotionally. So, dude, thank you so much for coming on, brother. I love this conversation. Super excited to hear the feedback from the lovely audience listening right now. But, dude, if there's anything else I could do for you, brother, you know, you just reach out and, you know, looking forward to continuing to support you and seeing all the cool things that you're doing, man. You're a good dude, man. I'm proud of you.

[Doug Bobs]

Likewise, man. Looking forward to, you know, continuing to build our relationship, too. And I appreciate the opportunity. This is an awesome combo. And thanks again.

[Sean]

That was great, man. Thank you so much for the audience. Listen, go check out my boy Doug. His handle will be in the show notes along with his website. You'll be able to go and find everything there is to know about his story, his books, how he's helping people. But really dive into him, man, because I believe, guys, if you're gonna love my show and you've been listening for so long, then you might as well put his in the mix because he's talking about adversity and how it shapes people because it shaped his life. He took the most deep, dark time in his life and turn it in to something that could build him. So again, guys, share this with somebody you know, love and trust. And until next time, stay determined. And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show. Hey, everybody.

[Doug Bobs]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date? Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married.

[Sean]

Me to a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league. Anyways, only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Doug Bobs]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. So good, so good, so good.

[Sean]

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[Doug Bobs]

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[Sean]

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[Sean]

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