How He Lost $300M and Came Back Stronger

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Determined Society with Shawn French

Episode Title: How He Lost $300M and Came Back Stronger
Host: Shawn French
Guest: Derek Fay
Release Date: June 2, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Determined Society, host Shawn French welcomes Derek Fay, a seasoned entrepreneur and the founder of 3F Management. Shawn highlights Derek's remarkable journey from poverty to building over 30 successful businesses, emphasizing his humility and unwavering determination. The conversation delves deep into the challenges Derek faced, including a significant financial loss of $300 million, and explores the strategies he employed to rebound stronger than before.

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Derek Fay’s Entrepreneurial Journey

Background and Early Struggles

Derek Fay’s story begins in humble beginnings, born into poverty and overcoming severe adversity. Shawn appreciates Derek's grounded nature, noting, “He started from nothing...by 2023, he was worth some amazing, obscene amount of money” (01:04). Derek discusses how his difficult childhood, marked by abuse and financial hardship, instilled in him resilience and a unique perspective on life and business.

Building 3F Management

Founded in 2002, 3F Management initially operated as a venture capital firm focused on building brands from the ground up. Over the years, Derek successfully built and exited over 30 businesses, achieving seven to nine-figure payoffs. He emphasizes a collaborative approach, stating, “No one has ever worked for me. Everyone has always worked with me” (65:02).

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The $300 Million Loss

Facing the Crisis

In 2022, Derek experienced a devastating loss of $300 million, which led to the shutdown of his company and the loss of hundreds of jobs. This episode addresses how Derek navigated this crisis with integrity and accountability.

Handling Responsibility

Derek shares, “I made sure that everyone was paid for everything that they did, and that meant taking a greater loss than I had to” (35:53). He chose to honor his commitments, paying vendors and ensuring his employees were treated fairly despite the financial setback. This decision stemmed from his core values of accountability and integrity.

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Recovery and Lessons Learned

Internal Narratives and Confidence

Derek attributes his ability to recover to his "absolute delusional confidence," a mindset he cultivated from a young age. He explains, “My internal dialogue...has come down to my internal dialogue” (22:21). This relentless self-talk helps him push through challenges and continually strive for improvement.

Overcoming Adversity

Shawn and Derek discuss the importance of viewing failures as opportunities for growth. Derek remarks, “What I call it, what I call it [overcoming adversity], it's a long journey” (44:26). They emphasize that success is built on years of hard work and resilience, not overnight achievements.

Strategic Planning and Execution

Derek advocates for long-term vision and strategic planning. He shares a philosophy of reverse engineering goals, breaking down a 10-year vision into manageable steps, which helps in maintaining focus and discipline.

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Leadership and Accountability

Taking Responsibility

Derek underscores the importance of accountability in leadership. He states, “If you're not standing in front of your losses, then you are. I'll go as far as say, not just you're not a good leader, you're just not a good person” (37:02). By owning his failures, Derek maintains trust and respect within his teams.

Integrity in Business

Integrity is a recurring theme, with Derek highlighting that true leadership involves consistently doing the right thing, even when it’s difficult. “Integrity is every day. Integrity is not just when people are looking...” (39:32).

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Personal Development and Determination

Relentless Pursuit of Goals

Shawn and Derek delve into the essence of determination, with Derek defining it as “relentless” (34:16). They discuss how daily discipline and incremental progress lead to significant achievements over time.

Balancing Emotions and Discipline

The conversation explores managing emotions to maintain focus and execute plans effectively. Derek shares his technique of internal "cheerleader and challenger" voices, which help him stay disciplined: “I call it the cheerleader and the challenger...they work in synergy” (24:24).

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Parenting and Legacy

Empowering the Next Generation

Derek talks about his approach to parenting, emphasizing the importance of teaching his children how to think critically rather than dictating their paths. He shares an inspiring story about his daughter choosing a humble car to avoid being perceived as spoiled: “I taught my children to challenge authority...she said, I don't want the kids at my school to think I'm a rich, spoiled kid” (54:05).

Encouraging Entrepreneurship

Both hosts agree on fostering entrepreneurial spirit in their children. Derek proudly recounts how his daughter is already sourcing multimillion-dollar tech companies to run: “She could have walked into a $75 million tech company. Like, I'm the new CEO and I'm figuring out” (55:41).

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Shawn and Derek reflecting on the multifaceted aspects of entrepreneurship, personal development, and leadership. Derek's journey exemplifies the power of resilience, integrity, and relentless determination in overcoming significant setbacks. His insights offer valuable lessons for listeners aspiring to build and sustain successful ventures while maintaining strong personal values.

Notable Quotes:

• Derek Fay (03:39): “Fast success creates no appreciation, and slow success for guys like us who came from nothing...it was decades of ridiculously hard work.”
• Shawn French (25:50): “Don't listen to that voice. Prove them wrong. That's what's keeping you where you're at.”
• Derek Fay (34:16): “In a word, relentless.”
• Derek Fay (39:32): “Integrity is every day. Integrity is not just when people are looking...”

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This episode serves as an inspiring testament to overcoming adversity through unwavering determination, ethical leadership, and strategic planning. Derek Fay’s experiences provide a roadmap for aspiring entrepreneurs to navigate their own challenges and achieve long-term success.

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Transcription Reference

For accurate timestamps and context, refer to the transcript excerpts provided throughout the summary.

Transcript

[Shawn French]

If there was a mashup of all the times on my show that I said I should have listened to my wife, this would be probably the fucking intro to it. She said, keep being yourself and you will end up where you belong.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah. Over a long enough time horizon. It's factually true, what your wife said. Everyone wants to talk about how do I scale my business. It's not about getting bigger. You have to get better before you get bigger.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

And if you get better, everything just gets bigger on its own. And it sucks because it's. It's a long journey. What is the expression? Everybody overestimates what they can do in a year and underestimates what they can do in 10. It's 10 years. But if you're 18, that means you're 28. If you're 28, it means you're 38. If you're 30, it means you're 48. Who gives a sh?

[Lucker]

French, what up? This one, Lucker. Let the pain inspire me. I put my all in. Everything I'm doing up until it's done, I'm me For the entirety. I put in overtime. I'll be working. Just know I'mma go for mine. Cause I earned it. They watch and I know it's time I confirmed it. A whole society determined determine.

[Shawn French]

What'S up, everybody. Welcome back to another episode. I am your host, Shawn French. Today I have with me a good friend, Derek Fay, who is a serial entrepreneur, been an entrepreneur for most of his life. In 2002, he founded 3F Management, which is a venture capitalist company. And this guy has built over 30 businesses and helped them exit successfully with 7, 8, 9 figure payoffs. He is a dude that, you know, I hold dear to my heart. Good dude. And the thing that I love about Derek is he started from nothing. He was born into poverty and made his way. And by 2023, he was worth some amazing, obscene amount of money. But the thing that I love about him mostly is you would never know it. Humble dude. Super excited to have him on the show. Derek, welcome, buddy, my friend.

[Derek Fay]

We finally did it, dude. We'd only been trying for what, three years?

[Shawn French]

Three years. So it's funny because, like, I walked in, I walked in, the team's like, you got Derek today, right? I was like, jace did. And I'm like, yeah, man. He's like, dude, long time coming. Holy shit, man. How long that take? I was like, well, you know what, man? I could think of it like that.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah, right?

[Shawn French]

Because. Because, you know, we've been Talking about it for quite some time. Hey, let's do this. And then it just didn't work out. And then. But when I really boiled down to, I was like, no, this is when it was supposed to happen. Everything happened, you know, because now the show is in such a different place than it was three years ago. I'm like, why burn the interview if it doesn't need to be where it's at right now? So I'm jacked to have you on at this point, man.

[Derek Fay]

Sometimes, too, the easiest things are the hardest things to get done.

[Shawn French]

Yeah, dude, seriously, it's like, each other all the time.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah, we'll do it, we'll do it, we'll do it.

[Shawn French]

And then you live, like, 20 minutes from each other. And, you know, it's almost like I see people in, you know, West Virginia more than I see you. So it's just like. It's crazy. But, dude, so what's been going on, man?

[Derek Fay]

Well, first, thank you for the last part of the intro, because it's the thing that I. I pride myself the most, which is you said that you wouldn't know it. And because of where I. And we'll get into all of this because of where I started, a lot of my peers don't act in accordance with what I think a successful man should act. And so thank you for that.

[Shawn French]

What do you think? Let's go. Let's dig into that one. Some pack it. Like, what is the disconnect? Right. Because, you know, they don't act in accordance of what a successful man looks like.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah, well, everybody's opinion is different on that.

[Shawn French]

Sure.

[Derek Fay]

But I think, in a nutshell, I think fast success creates no appreciation in, you know, slow success for guys like us who came from nothing. And although it may seem like I'm an overnight success or you're an overnight success, we know the truth.

[Shawn French]

Yeah, dude.

[Derek Fay]

It was not years, not a decade. It was decades of ridiculously hard work. And just like, working out or hitting a baseball or riding a bike, there's a muscle memory to success. What I mean by that is someone that has put in the years we understand and remember what it was like to be without. To not have. At least for myself. I was looked down on at a period of my life. I was told I was ridiculous. I was told I could never do it. So you better believe I would never do that to somebody else. And so that, for me, is what a successful man is.

[Shawn French]

I love that man. And I agree with that, because I look back at the beginning of my Journey and building the show and building the brand. It's like there was so much noise surrounding the fact, like, who the hell are you to do this?

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

Who are you to do this? What gives you the right? And at some point I thought to myself, like, they might be right, they might be true, but it's not any of my business or what what they think about what I'm doing. I'm gonna execute this the best of my ability and we'll see where it ends up, man. Because you know, you, you, you mentioned something interestingly like, I would never treat somebody like that because that's how I was treated. That's right when I was starting. Like, like, man, there's, there's a lot of different people that come to me now. And a lot of times when you grow to a certain point, you say, oh my gosh, like my DMs won't stop. Like I, everybody wants something from me.

[Derek Fay]

You can, you're complaining about the things that you always wanted.

[Shawn French]

I love it.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah, I do.

[Shawn French]

I love when somebody on the other side of the world goes, dude, like, can I talk to you?

[Derek Fay]

What a great compliment.

[Shawn French]

I'm like, absolutely. This is great because I get the opportunity to help them see things differently. Because a lot of times when, when you start, especially now because it's so visible on social media, there's so much noise in people telling you you can make a hundred thousand dollars in 30 days, which isn't true. Typically it's not. Right. Like in most cases.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

In most cases you have to have a portfolio in different things, moving in certain areas in a flow and everything like that for that, something like that to happen. Or a fine tuned business that has massive lead flow, massive systems. But you know, I like to be there for those people who call me and say, it's been five months, I've tried everything. It's a dead end everywhere. I said, dude, five months, exactly.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah. That's not a long time.

[Shawn French]

It feels like an eternity when you're in it though.

[Derek Fay]

It does, right?

[Shawn French]

Like if you think back to when you just started.

[Derek Fay]

Yes.

[Shawn French]

How, how did, did you ever have moments like that where you sat there and said, I feel like it's been forever. But then you had someone else come in and tell you, like, hey man, look, you're just getting started.

[Derek Fay]

Yes and no. So I've had those moments and still have those moments, but I didn't have, and this is not, I didn't have anybody. Everybody has influence. Everybody has. But you know, I'm gonna age myself, I'm 46. It wasn't like it is now where there were coaching seminars and mentor. It wasn't what it is. In fact, entrepreneurship, Entrepreneurship was a curse word. You were a fool if you wanted to be an entrepreneur. Like, how dare you want to do something so silly.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

And so it was just completely, completely different. And it's funny you say the five month thing. There was a, for an example, there was a space that I was negotiating on when I was building the gym franchise. Familiar with. Yep. I negotiated on that space for four and a half years every six months. I went back, it was still empty, I said what I wanted, we got closer. So the delayed gratification and then, you know, fast forward to about a week and a half ago, I've got a partner in my credit card processing company and they were freaking out because the deal was taking more than 30 days. Like there's no way this is going to happen. It's been 30 days. And so that's the, like the dichotomy between a young entrepreneur and a seasoned entrepreneur. And I don't, you, you can, you can just like a dad telling an 18 year old boy, hey, son, if you do this, this is going to happen. It doesn't matter. You have to experience it for yourself.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

Otherwise it doesn't really, it just, it doesn't, it doesn't marinate. It just doesn't sit with you. The way that experience gives you that insight.

[Shawn French]

I agree, man. Because it's like, you know, deals that take 30 days, that's transactional.

[Derek Fay]

Very. It's arbitrage.

[Shawn French]

Right.

[Derek Fay]

In my opinion.

[Shawn French]

You know, and, and so when we look at, you know, like you said, four and a half years to negotiate your space. Right. And then from that point it grew massively. You're very successful in your exit and everything like that. And I, and I think it's to the credit of, you know, I read something on you, is just you see things differently. Like you're able to pick up on things that certain people aren't able to pick up on. Entrepreneurship and in deal structure, et cetera. Can you, can you talk on that for a little bit?

[Derek Fay]

Where it came from or how I look at things maybe and both. Yeah. I mean, I think it started with my childhood and so, you know, not to get too, too much into the weeds. And this is not a victim statement, but it's a part of my DNA. Had a very, very difficult childhood. And when I say difficult single mom, poverty, section eight, horrific abuse, like all of the reasons you could imagine to not become something, but it taught me a lot of things. It taught me resilience. But more than anything, to answer the question, I started looking at the world completely different for completely different reasons than most people do. You know, a lot of kids, most kids, almost all kids at that age, not worried about a lot of things they're not worried about. How do I talk to this adult so that he doesn't hurt me? He walked in the door. Is the look on his face mean that he is intoxicated or not? And how do I respond? And so it took me years to really think through this, and I believe that's really where I started to be able to read individuals, read situations, and interpret them in really, really quick time. And that has served me incredibly well throughout the years. And I think the second part is I accept absolutely nothing at face value. And so when I say I challenge everything, it doesn't mean I'm that guy that you're wrong. In fact, I always am the one to say, you know what? You might be right. I enjoy. I'll always have a position. I'll always have an opinion, and I'll always share it, but I'm always the first person that, if you give me compelling evidence to the contrary, to go, that's fantastic. Let's go that direction. Okay, I lost my train of thought there, but I think those are the two components that have kind of added up to me being called the deal structure guy, you know, so, like, if I'm. If I'm brought in to be a shadow CEO or if there's a board deadlock, you've got a group of individuals, highly educated, highly opinionated, and they all have one specific direction that they want to go. And as you can imagine, it's just a traffic jam. And so I'm very good at seeing through the noise and allowing everyone to feel heard. But. But gently, let's just call it herding sheep into the direction, you know, the loudest voice in the room almost never wins, contrary to popular belief. And the guy that doesn't speak doesn't either. So there. There's. There's a delicate balance to deal, negotiation and communicating with people. And I teach my children, both my daughters, the number one skill in life is knowing how to speak to somebody. And that doesn't really have all. It's not so much about what you have to say. Like, I can sit with somebody at a bar, as I often do, and say, if we talk for 30 minutes, I talk for two minutes. And they leave that conversation saying, I like and trust that guy. Why? Because you listen to the individual and you bounce back and you follow the rhythm of what they want to communicate. Everybody's so intent on giving. Let me show you what I know. Let me show you where you should go versus sit back. Let them. Let them get it out. And then it's a slow guidance.

[Shawn French]

It's interesting because we're the same age, you know, and I look at, you know, things that you said about your background. There's a lot of parallels with mine. Right? So, you know, my. I was pretty much raised the first nine years of my life by my mom and my grandma. And then, you know, later on, my. My. My mom remarried and came my dad. Right. You know, it's like, he's my dad. But there was also a lot of activity going on, you know, like when I was super young, going to churches, coming home with boxes of food. Right. And not only that. Once my mom met my dad, who was in the Navy, they would have parties constantly. So I was around all these adults, and I was trying to navigate. If I look back, I'm trying to navigate how to speak to everybody. Sure, right. And understand a world concept when I'm, you know, in my child. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a child. And I'm. And I'm sitting there in an apartment or, you know, and then eventually a house in my little play TP hanging out, and there's keggers going on, and I'm sitting there hiding because I don't know what's going on.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

Right. And I don't understand it. But what. It. But what happened? As I grew up, I was able to have conversations with anybody. And this was a skill that was back when my dad was reading me the riot act. Like, yo, dude, if you don't make it in baseball, what are you gonna do? You don't have any other skills. You can't work with your hands. And, you know, these make me angry for a long time now I. Now I embrace it. And I. And I thank him for it because all he was trying to do was make me aware of maybe my shortcomings and what my skills were, which was baseball. But I said to him, I'm like, that's what I said to him in high school. I go, well, no. Like, people like me and I can speak to anybody. Yeah. A very good conversationalist.

[Derek Fay]

He goes, incredibly undervalued skill.

[Shawn French]

Right? But at that time, there wasn't this.

[Derek Fay]

Right?

[Shawn French]

It's like, you can't make a living out of that, Sean. Like, what are you going to do? And so anything that I did, whether it was coaching baseball, being a teacher, then working in payroll, then the medical industry, it was all this test. This was, this is the pre work for this. So like, I see things differently too, from a very creative standpoint on relationship based stuff. Like, I always felt that if I can find relationships that are the reciprocity levels high, I could survive, I can grow something.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

And that's what's going on here. So, like, I see a lot of parallels and just the, you know, young boy trying to figure it out, like trying to understand adults how to communicate.

[Derek Fay]

I think it, I think it served me absolutely served. One hundred and you, and you crediting your father is an incredible crate that I trait that I see very, very rarely. And I just call it accountability. Like, no matter what happened to us, what happened for us, whether it was good or bad, we have control over what we do with it in the future. And they don't hear that spoken to enough. So good for you.

[Shawn French]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's, you know, and I've been, I've been caught up in the other side of it too.

[Derek Fay]

Like you have to go through it to get to it.

[Shawn French]

Dude. It was, yeah. I mean, like, it was funny because I was at Jason's Deli with, with my family, you know, my three kids and my wife.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

And it was, I remember the date. It was September 28, 2024.

[Derek Fay]

Okay.

[Shawn French]

I talked to my dad in years. He texted me, hey, son, happy birthday. I'm like, my birthday is in a month.

[Derek Fay]

Well, he's early to the party.

[Shawn French]

He's really the part. I was like, dad, I was like, hey, thank you. But Today's my birthday. October 28th's my birthday.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

And he goes, yeah, October 28th, 1979. I said, no, 1978. But I'm like, what's up? And he goes, well, I'm in the hospital, you know, I just, I wanted to wish you happy birthday. I think really what was going on at that point, because at first it triggered me.

[Derek Fay]

Sure.

[Shawn French]

Then I got curious, like, what's going on?

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

He goes, well, I'm, you know, have an infection. I potentially might have to have my foot amputated. So this guy sitting in a hospital bed about, potentially about to lose his foot, which he did, thinking about me, wishing me a happy birthday. I could take it as he doesn't know when my birthday is or that he thought enough that he Needed to wish me a happy birthday because he wasn't going to be able to that day because he's had his foot amputated. So at that point I realized something, man. Like, I really have to drop the bullshit that's with my dad. Like, let's leave out all the things that I disagree with him about. How, you know, things he did, things with my mom or things that he said or maybe words that he, you know, the word that he broke to me.

[Derek Fay]

Sure.

[Shawn French]

Many times. Very core levels, my dad. So, you know, I don't think I understand work ethic without him.

[Derek Fay]

Sure.

[Shawn French]

Because I don't think it would have been there.

[Derek Fay]

Yep. You know, so, like, same for me.

[Shawn French]

That was the level for me.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

Like, that was a telling moment, you know, to your point of, like, yeah, there's responsibility now, but for years, dude.

[Derek Fay]

No, I was a victim for a minute.

[Shawn French]

Oh, man.

[Derek Fay]

By a minute, I mean a reasonable period of time.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah. Because when you go through stuff, at least for me, I won't speak for anybody else, I felt like the fact that I had just survived meant I was special and that was enough. Now the world owed me something.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

And that didn't work out well because the world doesn't give a shit what happened to you. And it's cold and it's heartless and it's unfortunate, but it's just factually true. And it really bothers me because I have siblings and family members and friends. And we all know lots of people who spend their entire precious life living as a victim and losing out on all of the beautiful things they probably could have done because of something that happened years ago, decades ago. And this is not me being insensitive and saying, you know, just let it go. Because it's not that easy. Trauma lives with you forever, but you do have the choice to push it aside and use it as something that makes you rise versus an anchor that pulls you down.

[Shawn French]

It's crazy you say that because, you know, I'm a. Speak about it freely here. My mom, when she was 8, she was driving in a. In a vehicle with, you know, her mom, which my grandma, her dad and her brother. So my mom was 6, her brother was 8. And you know, her dad, you know, I don't know how old he was, probably in his 30s or 40s. And, you know, coincidentally, I look just like him. And they were hit head on. Drunk driver killed my grandfather, visual grandfather and my uncle. My mom and grandma were thrown from the car and my mom woke up in the hospital to the News that her father and her brother died in the car accident. Now, you know, there's. That. That trauma is still so raw for her. And, you know, as, you know, growing up, it was always, don't talk about it because you'll upset Cindy. Right. And so my mom grew up in this bubble to where now she doesn't know how to deal with it. It still impacts her. And now she's in her 60s, and it's. It's so difficult because I know she wants to take control, but she just doesn't have the correct amount of tools. Right.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

So. And it's also funny because, you know, when. When my grandma passed away in 97 from pancreatic cancer, we were at her house. You know, the normal stuff. You know, you go through all the pictures and stuff, and I see this. This book, and I open it up, and these are pictures of me that I've never seen before.

[Derek Fay]

Dude, sure.

[Shawn French]

And it's a one's me looking through a tree. Okay. Like, peeking, smiling at my grandma. I'm wearing a purple sweater. The number's 32. I'm like, Interesting. Very interesting. I'm like. My number's 32. Huh? I'm gonna go, Seth, for this is. This is wild.

[Derek Fay]

Number meaning in baseball.

[Shawn French]

Baseball.

[Derek Fay]

Baseball, yes.

[Shawn French]

Number's 32. Purple didn't ring a bell then. You know, I was going into my freshman year of college in junior college, and, you know, then we go to the funeral and do all that, and, you know, I'm the pallbearer, which is mortifying for me. Right. And she was being buried next to my grandfather, Bobby Lee Doster. He was born in 1932. I picked that number.

[Derek Fay]

Everything sticks with us.

[Shawn French]

He was a catcher.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

I looked just like him. And his friends saw me play in junior college, and I played just like him.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

Ended up going to play at lsu. There's the purple.

[Derek Fay]

There it is.

[Shawn French]

Wow.

[Derek Fay]

It's not surprising to me. I think if you really look back, everything that we're going through in some way gets through to who you become. I've had very similar experiences, but it's a great store.

[Shawn French]

Yeah. It's just weird, man.

[Derek Fay]

I mean, I've. You know, same thing with my father, you know, my mom, my grandfather. It's. And now with my. My children. I don't want to say genetic memory, but I will say that it's. It's almost mystifying to me what can be passed on a very, you know, aside to what you just said, because I was younger, my grandmother, until she passed at every event, would tell the story that her grandson, me, between the ages of, say, 7 and 13 or 14, because we would do these skits at Christmas. The kids would get up and, you know, tell a horrible joke or sing or whatever. Everyone would have their skill. And I would get up in front of my family and tell everyone that when I get older. Her words exactly. I'm going to be a multimillionaire. I'm going to move to Florida. And I said, I'm going to own the golf course. I moved to Florida when I was 22. My first big project was a hospital hospitality project in Fort Myers with true golf. And I became obviously a multi millionaire.

[Shawn French]

And so many times over.

[Derek Fay]

Well, you know, one time is enough.

[Shawn French]

Yeah, exactly.

[Derek Fay]

More is just more. But so it is funny, like these. These little things, but it also goes for the bad stuff, too. And so, you know, people have asked how. How did you. Or maybe you too, how did you separate the good from the bad? And I don't know that I've got a good answer other than the fact that it. You just. You just have to.

[Shawn French]

This is a good segue into speaking about overcoming adversity. Right. Because you're talking about, you know, everybody talks about discipline, you know, and all that kind of stuff and doing the things that we need to do every day to move forward in life. But to separate the good from the bad. Right. Doesn't matter. Like, if we're really trying to go for something, you know, talk to the audience about, you know, how to get out of your. How you get out of your emotions at certain points in the time and still run the play, man. Because I think that's where people struggle.

[Derek Fay]

Well, for me, it's just. It's all about internal narratives. I have what I refer to as an absolute delusional confidence. And don't confuse that with ego. Although I have probably as big an ego as any man you've ever met. But it's. That's a gift I give to myself. I give humble to everyone. I mean, you've known me long enough to see it. Yeah, a lot of people say they're all kind of, you know, not really living that path, but my entire life, I've. I talk to myself relentlessly. You hear these guys talking about it. But I really, really have. Even from a young age, I. I've created this reality in my mind as a young boy that really did. It didn't exist. In fact, it was so far from the life that I was living. You know, I tell James about it all the time. Like if it was, if you, if you watched my, if you watched a movie about my life, you would think there's no way that could ever happen. That guy with those limited skills, with no formal education could have never come from that point to this point. It doesn't seem real. And so when I look at that, I ask myself these questions and it really has all come down to my internal dialogue. I tell my. And this is still true today, you don't get to a point in life and all of your problems are fixed. And it sure shit isn't fixed by money. It is a constant everyday work, I suppose, until the day that you're not able to think anymore, until you're gone.

[Shawn French]

I would, I would assume there are.

[Derek Fay]

Still days, multiple times a week where I'll say something to myself. And I say all the time, sometimes you have to tell yourself to shut up. And I do it constantly. I'll say what I would consider a form of weakness, like, oh God, I'm exhausted. I'm not going to the gym today. And then the other voice in me will say, get your ass up and go. And I, I've just programmed myself to combat. I call it, I call it the, the, the cheerleader and the challenger. I've got both of them in my head and they're fighting all day long. But they work in synergy. And it is real that if I had to pick one thing, that would be the difference in my life.

[Shawn French]

See, I, I'm in alignment with that, right? Because every single time there's something that I need to do. Like if I'm, you know, need to get up at 4am to go to the gym and I wake up and my body's hurting a little bit.

[Derek Fay]

First voice is like, go back to bed.

[Shawn French]

You don't have to do like, what are you doing? Like your beautiful wife's next to you. Sleep an extra two hours, man, you can go later.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

But if I do that, I'm breaking my words on myself.

[Derek Fay]

That's it.

[Shawn French]

And what else am I going to shortchange everything throughout the rest of that day. So people think it's disconnected. No, no, no. One decision is going to lead to the next one and the next one. And if you can win decision number one by the time you get home from the gym, because me, we've had this conversation, you know, like, I'm at a point in my life I have to go. And, and if I, if I do that by 6:30am I've got like, a few different wins, man. And then the next task is so much simpler for me to complete the hard ones. The hard conversation with business partners, the hard conversations with the kids and your spouse. Like, all these things become very doable because you're executing discipline in every single area of your life. And I just think that people. And I know it's a generalization, right? But when people come to me and say, like, how do you do this? Because, like, I just can't get up that early and go do it. I'm like, no, dude, you're. You're telling yourself a story. You're letting one voice win.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

Don't listen to that voice.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

Prove them wrong. That's what's keeping you where you're at.

[Derek Fay]

That's it.

[Shawn French]

There's too many people doing that.

[Derek Fay]

100. And I had a really interesting conversation. This was. I was at the Sugar Shack.

[Shawn French]

Oh. I went there a couple weeks ago.

[Derek Fay]

First time I've ever been. It was really great. Really great. Not sponsored by Sugar Shack.

[Shawn French]

No.

[Derek Fay]

I just really agree.

[Shawn French]

It can't be. If you want to be, though.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

Price is right.

[Derek Fay]

That's right. And a friend of my fiance was there, highly educated man, really great, charismatic, and instantly thought he was just an entrepreneur. He was telling me that he works at a company. He's been there for 25 years. He's cultivated all of the relationships. He has all the contacts. He laid out a business model. And I'm like, you're gonna crush. He goes, and my wife told me I had to do it. So he had the wife's buy in. And he goes, I just can't do it. And I said, let me recap. And I listed all of the positives. And I said, so why can't you do it? So he looked at me. It was kind of like an awkward moment of silence. But I'm really good at sitting in silence. You'd be surprised how much comes out of silence. And he just said, very quiet. First time, the whole night, he was really quiet. He goes, I'm scared. And I go, I know of what. And he goes, what if I fail? And I go, 100% agree. I said, just do me a favor. Do this. Every single time you say what if? A negative, sit in it, absorb it, but then counter it with what if? I don't. Every time you say what if? And it's a negative, give yourself the opposite side. And over time, that's always going to win every single time. And he looked at him he goes, you know what, man? Maybe I'm gonna do this. Whether he does or doesn't, that's not the point of the story. But even I still have that what if negative. But it's always outdone by the what if positive.

[Shawn French]

So funny, dude. Those thoughts go further in my head every day.

[Derek Fay]

Of course they do.

[Shawn French]

Like, I always think, what if this dries up? Like, what if. What if this starts to suck, right?

[Derek Fay]

What if you're sitting that too long, you're dead.

[Shawn French]

But then I go. Then I laugh. I go, it ain't gonna.

[Derek Fay]

That's it.

[Shawn French]

Because we're gonna keep growing. We're gonna keep doing this, right? And, like, what if it's massively successful, right? And I started thinking, it takes off.

[Derek Fay]

In a way you could never imagine. But you stopped.

[Shawn French]

Every conversation is your what if this is the conversation.

[Derek Fay]

Correct.

[Shawn French]

You don't know people. People don't know. And the cool thing that I love about that story that you told, and this is one thing that I wish I was there. I'd have been like, dude, you could be scared. But the one person that matters other than how you feel about yourself is your partner, your wife. And she's saying, go. Go honor her.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

Go.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

Because if you don't, you're telling her you don't trust her. She believes in you, man.

[Derek Fay]

Worse, that you don't trust yourself.

[Shawn French]

Oh.

[Derek Fay]

And in my. My humble opinion, if your wife doesn't think you believe in yourself, it's a weak position, bro. It's a bad spot.

[Shawn French]

It's a very bad spot. Right. There's a lot of risk in everything with this kind of stuff. Right. As you know, I left corporate America in January of 2024. In all of 2024 is white knuckling it.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

I mean, like a point. Like at the end of 2024, before the.

[Derek Fay]

The.

[Shawn French]

I mean, and James and Mike and all of them know.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

Like, before this took off In December of 2024, I was taking interviews for leadership positions to go back to corporate America because, like, I gotta bridge the gap somehow.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

And then another way, that's not weakness. No, it's not.

[Derek Fay]

Right.

[Shawn French]

I'm thinking like, okay, you have a fan. I have a family. I have to make. Okay. Because I have to make sure this is.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

This, you know, you have a responsibility. Yes. I have to feed my children, and they need insurance and all that stuff. So it was funny. They passed on me and they said, you're no doubt the qualified leader, but they're internal and we need to give the position to them. We'll circle back to you in three months when we have more headcount and we'll do it and you can, we can split the team. I was like, all right. I was bummed about it and thinking like, oh my God, what if I, what if this happens? What if that happens? And I think like, what if I just execute the next interview? And I kept doing that long enough and then it exploded.

[Derek Fay]

That. But that mindset is everything and I think that's an overlooked statement that you made and grossly undervalued. Like, if that had happened to me, I would have said that's probably the best thing that could have ever happened. Like that. Whenever anything negative or bad happens, I instantly go, this happened because it was supposed to. Because now the next big thing and all of my partners in business, when they, when they first get into business me, it mystifies them like, this is the biggest deal. The company's going to 10x. It's unbelievable. Funds are escrowed. All we got to do is sign and then it falls apart. And everyone's like, oh my God, what are we going to do? And I go, no, that's exact. That's great. Because the best deal is the one that falls apart. It's the best deal because it was never going to work.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

And so if you look at it like that and people like, well, how, you know, how do you continually cultivate whatever level of success I have over a 25 year period of time? It's because you just, you just got to sit back. If you execute correctly, if you treat people well, if you, if you stay in the game and you stay positive, you never lose long term. I've lost plenty of times momentarily and that's. We'll talk about some big ones.

[Shawn French]

That's okay though, right?

[Derek Fay]

You gotta take the position that a, it's my fault, it's my fault it didn't work. Maybe I didn't present myself well at the interview. Maybe I didn't have what they need. I can fix those two things. Like distress is really, in my opinion, not having control. The feel of, oh my God, someone else is in control of my life. Accountability and taking, you take that control back. Even in a bad situation, feeling in control is a million times better than feeling like I don't know what to do.

[Shawn French]

Well, it's a power position, right. It's a position of power and confidence, right? So like if we, if if in the audience, listening and watching, if you take one of the situations you're going through right now and you give it so much power to impact your emotional state negatively and eventually impacting your physical health, you're letting it win.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

But if you sit there and say, all right, like Jocko says, good. Yeah, good.

[Derek Fay]

Now what?

[Shawn French]

But now what? Like taking that and turning it into a positive. Right. Because one of the things that people say is like, well, look, you know, it's easy for you to say.

[Derek Fay]

I knew you were gonna say it's easy for you.

[Shawn French]

It's not.

[Derek Fay]

Well, it wasn't. Right? Nothing's easy until you do it enough times so that it becomes easier.

[Shawn French]

Dude.

[Derek Fay]

Not easy. Because I don't. I don't know there's anything that any successful person does that is really easy. I hope not cultivated. It's practiced. It's pattern recognition. It's duplicity. It's all of these things that on the surface, looking at someone that's doing it looks. Oh, that's. That's easy. Well, it's. There's nothing easy in. Well, there's a lot of things easy in my day now. But it took 25 years to. To get there.

[Shawn French]

Because there's systems there now. Right.

[Derek Fay]

There's a lot of internal systems and external.

[Shawn French]

Exactly right. And there's a lot of failure built in, and there's a lot of lessons built in.

[Derek Fay]

Yes.

[Shawn French]

So now what? Easy. I mean, you know what's easy? What's easy? Like, whatever. Like, it's just execution. Yes, exactly. It's like, okay, you know, these things that were hard for me before, I just deal with them quicker now. That's it, you know, and that's all it is. So that could be, you know, titled Easy, but, you know, for. For the people out there that haven't really, you know, acquired that skill yet. It's just. You have to practice it, like the first time. Yeah. Because your subconscious is screaming like, don't do that. Because your brain is wired to protect you in the moment you disobey those programs is when your dome gets just fried.

[Derek Fay]

Yes.

[Shawn French]

And then you move, right, and say, okay, I'm gonna do something differently. I'm gonna take this as a positivity, or I'm gonna go to the gym or have the hard conversation. You're like, oh, yeah, that wasn't that bad.

[Derek Fay]

Agreed. Well, it's never as bad as you think it is.

[Shawn French]

Yeah. And then I could do it again.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

And again, you know, there's there's, you know, there's a level like, you talking about, like, skill and, you know, the art of conversation in business. There's overcoming adversity. There's an intellectual aspect, obviously, too. Sure. But I think there's a high level of determination, too. And, you know, the show is called the Determination. You know.

[Derek Fay]

Yes.

[Shawn French]

This determines the site. So, like, what would you define determination in your words?

[Derek Fay]

In a word, relentless. I like to say relentless. Accountability. But in just a word, I'll go with relentless, because we've already talked about accountability, and it doesn't mean you have to know when to also jump ship. That's a. That's a fine art, too. And that is so difficult because you have to put that to get into a big position. You have to have a bit of an ego.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

And so then to be able to tell a hundred, two hundred employees, hey, I'm your CEO, I'm your founder, things aren't going well. This is your last paycheck. That crushes your ego in a way that I can't really articulate. And I've been there. I've had to do it. You know, I. I had a $300 million loss in 2022, and I had hundreds of employees. It was a source of great pride. And I had to do a. I had to do a call with all of my employees and tell them this was the last paycheck you guys are ever going to get.

[Shawn French]

Okay. So that's an important thing to dig into. Right. So as you just said, it was. You know, that. That. Right. There was a hard thing to deal with. Like, this just wasn't. Forget the money, forget the fact that the business shut down. You have to go on to the next thing. There's people's lives involved. How did you. Because you're a good human being. You have a heart. How did you filter through that and how did you make that right in your own mind? And, you know, and just kind of like, hey, you know, like collateral damage. Like, it's not as insensitive as that, but, like, this is part of it, and now I have to work my way through this. What was that process like for you?

[Derek Fay]

Well, the reason behind it, maybe. We'll circle back. The answer is accountability. I'm gonna keep using these two words because really, if I have two words in my life, that's one of the big words. But I made sure that everyone was paid for everything that they did, and that meant taking a greater loss than I had to. I made sure that all of my vendors were paid, even though I didn't have personal guarantees on everything. And so I honored the reputation that I had built. So for me, I felt like I had done everything I needed to do. I cleaned up my mess. And not everyone does that. I'm not saying that people that do it or don't do it are right or wrong, but for me, it's the right thing to do. And because I did that, the call went incredibly well. People were sad, but they were safe. And so that's my responsibility as a leader to take supreme accountability. Because I. I take accountability when I win. I stand on top of that with my arms up.

[Shawn French]

Here, the opposite.

[Derek Fay]

But if you're not standing in front of your losses, then you are. I'll go as far as say, not just you're not a good leader, you're just not a good person.

[Shawn French]

Fact.

[Derek Fay]

And then if you wonder why your career isn't going the way that it is, or if you wonder why I can have a couple major losses and still have people line up to stand by my side when I'm doing something different, that is the reason to me.

[Shawn French]

Do you know what. You know what I think about when you're talking about that? Integrity.

[Derek Fay]

Absolutely.

[Shawn French]

I mean, you know, yes. Accountability, relentless. But, like, I. I think there's a high level of integrity in that. Right. So, you know, as we go through hard things in life, you know, losses, you know, shutting companies down, people losing their jobs, it's all very sad.

[Derek Fay]

It is those.

[Shawn French]

Those emotions, though. And the. And the blowback is. Is manageable if you handle it with integrity.

[Derek Fay]

I agree.

[Shawn French]

And. And you did that. Right. So that everybody's happy. No.

[Derek Fay]

Or satisfied.

[Shawn French]

Right.

[Derek Fay]

But you have to clear the deck.

[Shawn French]

That's the thing that you can control, though. You can't control that. How somebody else filters the information, takes it in and uses it in their mind. Right.

[Derek Fay]

And some people may even disagree with it. But I feel really good about the way I behaved and the part of this story that I think is important to hear. It's one thing if you build a company and you make some poor decisions or the market shifts. The reason, in this case, my very best friend of Thor, best friend of 18 or 19 years, godfather of both my children, performed a massive act of fraud and did a bunch of things that put our company in a position that it couldn't recover from. So I was well within my legal. Right. Right. To just go, I didn't do it.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

And not pay the vendors and walk away and throw him under the bus. Potentially even put him into prison. But I sat back and thought about it, and I just stood in front of it because you could argue it wasn't my fault, but everything's my fault if I want to be that leader. But it's sure as shit wasn't anybody else's fault.

[Shawn French]

Right?

[Derek Fay]

So, yes, I agree there. Integrity, look, you get to. Integrity is not something you get to choose when you show it off. Integrity is not just for moments when you want to go on social media and give someone a big tip. Integrity is when you tip somebody big every single time you go out to the point where people know you.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

Like, integrity is every day. Integrity is not just when people are looking and it's the hard moments when everything about being that man of integrity really hurts. Hurts financially, hurts emotionally. But when you do it, it doesn't just change people's perspective of you, it changes your perspective of yourself. And so in one of my biggest losses, I found probably the greatest source of pride in myself.

[Shawn French]

I love that, dude. Something great came of it, right? It did. And it was one of those things that you may not have known you needed that, but when it came, massive.

[Derek Fay]

Lesson and a lot of different levels.

[Shawn French]

Yeah. I mean, to me is like getting a great sense of pride in something and how you handle something, especially in the case of your partner and, you know, the. The godfather of your three, two girls is you stood in front of it. You. You could have sidestepped it.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

Right. But. But you did it. You hit it head on. And I think one of the biggest things that I've learned in this journey and in all the conversations that I've had with successful people like yourself, it's like everybody, massively successful, takes those emotions and the things that are really shitty and they put their face right in front of that shift. Like, you lean into it hard, and that's what we've done here. It's like, you know, everything that I've done here, like, I have to lean into all the shit, like, as bad as it hurts. I mean, there was moments, you know, back when you first met me and met the boys, you know, like, some people say it's off, but for me, it was. It was just my emotions. Like, in between filmings, I would be sitting at my desk crying because I was. I felt alone.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

I felt that there wasn't any viable, real business for people to come in and invest in and. And for me to make money. My wife always told me this, and I fought her tooth and nail. And, like, it's like, if there Was a mashup of all the times on my show that I said I should have listened to my wife. This would be probably the intro to it is she said, keep being yourself and you will end up where you belong. You will end up where profile. And I'm like, yeah, it doesn't work like that here. It doesn't work like that here. In this business is. It's. It's hard. It's this and that. Like, I need this, I need that. I need it. She goes, everything that you're talking about, sure, eventually that will come. But the best part about your business is you. And you don't get it yet.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. Over a long enough time horizon, it's factually true what your wife say. I'm just stop.

[Shawn French]

Yeah. And for me, it was like, no, I came up for air.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

You know, there was a point and I think maybe 20, 24. I took a four month, four month break.

[Derek Fay]

What's wrong with that?

[Shawn French]

I didn't have perspective.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

You know, it was. It was one day I was, you know, as, you know, it used to be in the house and, you know, the family had to go upstairs. They couldn't make a sound. Don't walk too loud. Don't talk to daddy. And then my daughter was like, my youngest was four at that time. Just wanted to see her dad when she came home from school. But they got to come through the back door. They got to go upstairs. And, you know, one night, you know, some. Some type of argument happened between me and my wife. I'm like, you know, the gist of it was like, like, what do you, like, I'm doing this for you guys. She goes, did you ask yourself a question? Just, are you. And I got so mad. I was triggered.

[Derek Fay]

You get mad and I didn't. When the truth comes, you get mad. Men.

[Shawn French]

And it wasn't that I wasn't at the core of me, but I was. I was displaying it differently. Right. And the outward version of it and I, you know, my emotional regulation was a lot worse than. And I exploded.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

And she goes, okay, we're going upstairs. When you're done throwing your fit, we will have a conversation. Why don't you go for a walk? Whatever.

[Derek Fay]

Is your wife a therapist?

[Shawn French]

No. Okay. She's just a spicy Latina. You bet. Jackie. You know Jackie. So I just, you know, so I went for, you know, go for a walk or a lift, and I come back and I just. I didn't have perspective. I was so worried about the revenue so worried about what I needed from somebody else to make this thing go. I was like, I can't record another show until I have perspective.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

In the moment, I have perspective. I recorded again. And it's been week after week. There hasn't been one. There hasn't been one delay. In fact, now we're two episodes a week. Right. So. But I worked through those things, you know, those hard points of just taking that deep breath and coming back better.

[Derek Fay]

What a great. You know, I just said this some of the day, talking about scaling a business with the same thing with. With yourself. It's not about getting bigger, it's about getting better. Like, everyone wants to talk about, how do I. How do I scale my business? I gotta. I'm gonna. I'm gonna have two locations, eight locations, 12. Locate. It's not about getting bigger. You have to get better before you get bigger.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

And if you get better, everything just gets bigger on its own, internally, externally, everything. Like, everybody wants to skip all the hard works, all the steps. Like, we're not. I'm not. You're not. Whoever's not successful because of what you see today, you're only successful because of all of the other horrific stuff that you had to push through to get here. No, man, you had to just got to become better. And it. And it sucks because it's. It's a long journey. Like this social media nonsense. And I talk about it all the time, like, it's just. It's not going to happen that way. It just isn't.

[Shawn French]

No.

[Derek Fay]

And listen, it doesn't mean that it hasn't happened for some people, but fast money leaves pretty quickly. It's a. It's a long journey. And, you know, I think. What is the expression? Everybody underestimate. Overestimates what they can do in a year and underestimates what they can do in 10. 10 years. When someone says, what do I. How much time do I really need to put into whatever the thing is? It's 10 years. Like, that's the number now, is it maybe seven or four or six? Yes. But in your mind, you need to commit to 10 years. And if you're 18, that means you're 28. If you're 28, it means you're 30. If you're 30 means you're 48. Who gives a shit?

[Shawn French]

Does it?

[Derek Fay]

It's not a long time, dude.

[Shawn French]

It's funny because, you know, I look back at it, right?

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

And there was moments where I think this should have happened already because of everything Like I, I was so naive when I got into this space and I believed everything I saw on social media because that's just my heart.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

Like, like why would somebody lie about this stuff? Like it doesn't make any sense. Just because the type of person I am, I wouldn't do it. So I'm very honest with my journey. Right. Of all the shortcomings and all the, all the other, all the other stuff. But like, you know, I started, I started thinking in terms of. Okay, wait a second. Decades. Right. Like, where am I going to be in 10 years? So right now we're having conversations like me and my team, every Tuesday morning at 9:30, we have a team call.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

My nephew JT was there and watched the whole thing. Today we're talking about things now that are five years out.

[Derek Fay]

Sure.

[Shawn French]

So like in five years I'm looking for this deal.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

It's 10 years.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

It's 10 years. Sorry, nine years.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

Will it happen sooner than five? I think so.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah, maybe.

[Shawn French]

But if not, that's fine.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

But, but the better part of a decade is what you really need to build something massive.

[Derek Fay]

I agree. And, and for people listening, that doesn't mean that you. I want to be whatever. In 10 years you sit and wait like an astronaut. It's been eight years. I got.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

You know, it's not. I call it reverse engineering. So if my big goal is 10 years, now that shows me how to reverse engineer and what I need to be doing as soon as, even tomorrow, like you take out a piece of paper and say 10 years, 9 years, 7 years, 5 years, 3 years, 1 years, 1 month and you build out that model. I did this as a young man. I built out what I wanted to become and I did it systematically. Just like if someone said to me, and this is why my, where my delusional confidence come, can you do this? And if I don't have the skill, I know I can do almost anything in 90 days. Because if 90 days I need to do this thing, I need to run a, whatever, a five minute mile. Day one, I'm going to go run a mile and see what my time is. And now I know I've got 90 days and I can track my progress every single day. And you can do that with any skill, any goal, anything you want to do in life. It just, it only seems impossible when you sit there and you look at the, at the top of the goal and go, cheese. I. There's just, you know, it's Just not even, it's not even possible. But it is when you break it down into small steps.

[Shawn French]

Because what you're talking about now, right, is getting a base level.

[Derek Fay]

That's it.

[Shawn French]

Where am I today? Where am I at right now?

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

And then like planning out your strategy and then your daily strategic activity to get to that 90 day goal. And so let's talk about like, you know, you look at that big goal, right? Like five minute mile. You're never gonna get it. You're never gonna get it unless you run that mile that day. That day.

[Derek Fay]

One in 12 minutes or nine minutes or whatever.

[Shawn French]

Yeah. And then start your process. And then every single day, the micro movements, like, okay, maybe I need to. Oh, I need to have less food here. More food here. That's right, implement this. Do some sprints, maybe some cross training days to rest. And then you start to get better. And so you're seeing all of your work on a process that you're sticking to and being disciplined. And then all of a sudden you hit that goal and everybody goes, oh my God, you run the, you hit five minute mile. 90 days. What's it feel like? Not as good as this stuff. That's right, because that's where you're made.

[Derek Fay]

That's it. Yep. My daughter's boyfriend said something to me. This is like about a year ago or at the dinner table. And he said, I, oh, you were an athlete one day or one time.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

I was so offended. One time. First of all, I'm always an athlete.

[Shawn French]

I'm still an athlete.

[Derek Fay]

I was so offended by that statement. So I went right at him. I go, and pick a sport, pick a skill. Let's go. 90 days. I said it. 90 days.

[Shawn French]

Dinner's over. So dinner's over.

[Derek Fay]

So he goes, basketball. Well, I go, you're six, seven. Like, let's get real. Yeah, but, but I'll still accept if that's the only challenge.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

So I use this example now because it happened. He, he said, all right, we'll run a mile so you can go as fast as. So I go, perfect, done. Now I asked my daughter, like, what is he? Because he runs, he doesn't track. And he, I think it was like a 6, 6, 6 minute, 5 second mile, whatever it was. So I'm like, okay, I'm not, I might be in trouble here.

[Shawn French]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Derek Fay]

So I did that. I went, I ran my mind. I'm not a runner, I'm a body. I'd work out. Like, I lift heavy things. I put him down. That's it.

[Shawn French]

Yeah, exactly.

[Derek Fay]

And I think my first one was like 9:13. I was like, oh, man, oh, man. But you know what? This comes to me being little sociopathic and relentless when I get locked into something which is a skill. My next day was 9 instead of 9 13, it was 9 11. And I just kept cutting off seconds. Second seconds. And I always thought, we won't get to whether I beat him or not.

[Shawn French]

But I do want to know your time. You're going to tell me your final time.

[Derek Fay]

Well, I didn't beat him, but I went. I went from 9:13 to like 6:37 or 6:42 in 90 days.

[Shawn French]

And he will never call you an athlete a long time ago ever again.

[Derek Fay]

Well, it did open up a lot of trash talking, which has been really great for the relationship, regardless. I think the example is in there. You know, this, the. The idea that every day you can be. And people underestimate the value of an inch, the value of a second, the value of whatever it is. And I have. I've built a career on. On that kind of model. This is where I want to go. This is where I am. What do I have to do to get that? And I think it might have even started with baseball. This is something you probably can. Like, how do you get better at hitting? We'll take a thousand swings. How do you get better feeling? Take a thousand ground balls. Well, so it's that simple. I just have to do the thing over and over and over and I get better. And that was ingrained into me. Hey, you know, your, Your time is down. Well, shit, I got to do. I got to do sprints after practice or I got to run more. Like, it's just. Just you need to do the thing.

[Shawn French]

It brings a certain level of confidence, right?

[Derek Fay]

It.

[Shawn French]

When. When you, when you're out there executing something, every single day, you. You gain a certain confidence that not a lot of people have.

[Derek Fay]

Yes, right.

[Shawn French]

Because you're. You're putting something out there and you're doing the hard thing and staying disciplined and doing it when most people like, all right, well, I did it five days in a row, right?

[Derek Fay]

I'm never going to.

[Shawn French]

I'm. Well, no. Or just I'm tired.

[Derek Fay]

Right?

[Shawn French]

No.

[Derek Fay]

Who cares?

[Shawn French]

No, no, you. You do the thing right? And it's so funny because a lot of people, they. They focus on the. Well, how. How do I do this? Like, what do I need to do? It's like, yo, take initiative and just run. Just, you know, or, you know, that the kid out there that doesn't have the proper instruction, right. To, to feel the ground ball a thousand times the correct way, but goes and does it is going to, is going to outwork and beat the person that has the skill because once that person gets even close, a good coach can make that person into a superstar because they'll outwork them any day of the week. Right?

[Derek Fay]

Action beats in action 100 out of a hundred times.

[Shawn French]

Yeah, that's it, dude.

[Derek Fay]

And we're going through that now with my daughter who's 18, you know, the, the next stage of life. I'm going through all of these very profound thought things I never thought I would with, you know, Sophia turning 18 and you know, my whole life, you know, you turn 18 and get out and go figure out the world. And now I'm a father. I'm like, I don't remember being scared and I'm not scared for my daughter, but I think to myself, I don't, I don't feel like I'm done parenting. I feel like now this is a whole new phase of parenting that should be occurring. And it's, it's really, it's really interesting to go through as an entrepreneur. And she has huge ambitions of being an entrepreneur and taking dad out and showing me what's up.

[Shawn French]

That's great.

[Derek Fay]

Doing all those things. And so I'm going through this balancing act of how much is too much help, how much is not enough. I am still her father, I'm not her boss, I'm not this. And so I don't. Life is, we go through these phases in life that interesting.

[Shawn French]

Those are interesting points. And like I've got, you know, six, seven years before Bobby gets there, right. And have eight year old daughter and you know, six year old daughter. But the thing that I'll tell you about this specific child, Sophia, you said it on air, so I'll say it is. I don't think you have to worry about her. Oh, I know I don't because I remember having a conversation with you and this is something I want to share with the audience. Maybe a year or two, maybe two years ago, you bought her her first car.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

And, and you know, she could have probably went and picked like I want that Mercedes, I want, you know, this BMW. What is she.

[Derek Fay]

In fact, I offered it.

[Shawn French]

What does she, what does she want?

[Derek Fay]

It made me choke up because what I say, one of my proudest moments as a father, maybe as a, as a human being, she said, I thought about it and I know that you'll buy Me, a Mercedes or BMW or whatever. But I want this car. She showed me. Now, it was a Chevy Equinox. Not. Not a cheap car by any standard, but by the measure of what she could have, simply by asking for it, I would say a humble choice. And I said, okay. Why? And she said, well, I. I thought a lot about it, and I don't want the kids at my school to think I'm a rich, spoiled kid. And the first time I get a nice car, I want to be the one that bought it. I mean, I'm done. I did my job as a parent.

[Shawn French]

Do you see my point? Like, that's. That's the thing is, like, that. That was probably one of the turning points, because that's. I think it's probably when I met you, maybe a little bit before that, but then I. We had that conversation, and I'm like.

[Derek Fay]

Wow, that.

[Shawn French]

That's. That's a good dad. Like, obviously, somewhere along the lines that awareness was instilled in her and in it, and it created a bigger, you know, greater respect for you. So that's a pretty damn cool story, man. And like that. Those are the people. Those are the types of individuals that go out and know that the world doesn't owe them shit.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

And. And they work, and they. They work, they work, they work, and then they end up on top because they're willing to do the small things.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

You know, wow, man.

[Derek Fay]

So she's. I'll share one more, since I'm a proud dad. She. She's sourcing companies that potentially I can invest in and she can run. And so she brought me a $75 million tech company that was for sale. Little, you know, ambitious.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

But the point of the story is I looked at her and I chuckled and I said, I made a mistake. I said, what do you know about a tech company? She looked into my soul, grabbed my soul by the neck and said, what does that matter, dad? Because I've taught her so emphatically to get in the game and figure it out, that she. If I had written the check, she would have had zero hesitation to walk into a $75 million tech company. Like, I'm the new CEO and I'm figuring out. So it's a skill, man.

[Shawn French]

That's a gift, bro. That's a good.

[Derek Fay]

Some might call it crazy. In fact, most do. She's not going to college. She's chosen not to go to college. She has chosen to repurpose her tuition that I was going to pay to go towards the first company that she chooses. I. I asked her what company she wants, and she said, I'm too young to decide. So she's looking so, like, it's, it's levels of maturity that I'm not even sure I have at 46. But, but it's, but it came from somewhere. And trust me, I don't deserve the credit. I don't think any parent deserves or doesn't deserve where their, their kids end up. Because there's evidence that you can be an incredible parent, have a horrible kid, have a horrible parent, become an incredible kid. And so that's me just not taking anything from my daughter.

[Shawn French]

Right.

[Derek Fay]

Had influence for me, for sure. She's seen me persevere and struggle and succeed. Sure. She also could have just been a spoiled brat, too. So that's her, that's not me.

[Shawn French]

So that brings up a topic, right?

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

So the American way, societal norm. Do good in school, get good grades, go to college, you know, graduate from college.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

You know, in some aspects, it makes sense. If you're gonna go play sports, you gotta go to college. Unless you're drafted, like.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

Cool.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

But there's more and more entrepreneurs now.

[Derek Fay]

Yes.

[Shawn French]

That are becoming more comfortable with their children saying, I don't want to go to college. I want to build business. Sure. That, like, I'm okay. Like, for me, like, if, if, you know, my kids go, like, and they, they see what this is, and this continues to grow. I don't want to go to college. I want to learn the family business. I want to, I want to start something on my own. I'll be like, all right, dope, let's do it.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah.

[Shawn French]

Now, my wife, on the other hand, you know, comes from, you know, Quito, Ecuador, a third world country. Right. And the only way out of Quito was for her to get straight A's in this public school so she could get to the States. So there's a different value structure there. And, and I respect it. But, you know, it's becoming increasingly normal for, for children that want to learn entrepreneurship, stick around, they'll go to college and they learn.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah. I've always taken the position of, how about we just let the kid decide what the kid wants?

[Shawn French]

How about that, huh?

[Derek Fay]

What an amazing thing.

[Shawn French]

How about that?

[Derek Fay]

And I've gotten a lot of criticism by everyone. My old partners, administration at schools. I don't, I don't want to say that I don't care about education because I think there are, there are parts of education that are essential and I'm not defining education as book smart sweets, sweet smart, but just education in general. But I. All I really want from my daughter is for her to be incredibly happy. And if that means that she is a Fortune 500 CEO, awesome. That means she's a Starbucks barista and she's incredibly happy, awesome. That means she's a mom of three and her husband is supporting her, awesome. Like I've never had. I've had incredible hopes and dreams for my daughter with no specificity ever.

[Shawn French]

I like it.

[Derek Fay]

Right. And I think that's a mistake parents make is they decide who their kids should be or worse, they decide who they can't be. And like we talked about, kind of come full circle. Stuff sticks with you. So my whole life, my girls have always, hey, dad, what do you think I should do? What do you think of this? And almost 0% of the time do I give a straight answer. Sometimes it frustrates them because it has never been my job to teach my daughters what to think. I've always looked at it as my job to teach them how to think. And so hot, hot button topic, like when it came to religion, my children have chosen their own religion. When they were very young, I talked to them about options. I said, there's Christianity, there's Catholicism, there's Buddhism, there's atheism. There's the big bang. There's all of these things. And we got these deep conversations about each of them because who am I? And this is going to be trigger for a lot of people. But I have my beliefs. But that does not mean that that is what my child's belief has to be. And it's so much more than me just saying I don't want to, want to make a decision for my kids. I'm trying to teach them from a very, I taught them to a very young age how to analytically think about topics and decide for themselves. I empowered my kids at an age that most kids aren't empowered at. 18, 19, 20, 30, like, wow, wait a minute. So I'm, I'm little, but I still have the power to think through a topic and make a decision for myself. I think it fundamentally changed the way that they think.

[Shawn French]

I would agree with that because I, you know, the education system here in America is designed to just base the students worth on how well they take a test. They don't really teach them how to think.

[Derek Fay]

Agree.

[Shawn French]

Right. And it's funny because you mentioned religion and I'll probably trigger some people with this too. But like, you know, I'm just gonna say, because it's real, it's raw. You know, my wife said at one point, we have to get me. We need to get Mia baptized. I'm like, why? She was. Well, because, you know, she's.

[Derek Fay]

My family did it to me.

[Shawn French]

Yeah. I go. But she didn't choose it.

[Derek Fay]

Right.

[Shawn French]

So, like, I'm always. I'm big on. And not poo pooing Catholicism. Like, I. I respect it, but, like, you know, for me, it's like someone needs to choose that.

[Derek Fay]

I agree.

[Shawn French]

You know, because then they own it.

[Derek Fay]

That's right.

[Shawn French]

Like, I made my choice in college. I own it.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

Right.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

And I want to give the opportunity for my children to do the same thing, man. So it's like that. Again, that is a hot topic and a triggering thing because we're not debunking anything that we don't or we don't believe in it. I'm just like, people have the right to make their own decisions. They should.

[Derek Fay]

That's right. A lot of people will say, well, a child's too young to make a decision. Well, there are a lot of other things that we're allowing children to make their own decisions about that we won't get into. But this.

[Shawn French]

Now, I want to.

[Derek Fay]

Well, but again, I think it's. I. For me, anyway, it was way bigger than religion or way bigger than this. You know, another thing I did that. That is hotly debated is I taught my children to challenge authority. And now respectfully, of course. So, you know, if a math teacher, take an example from, like, fourth or fifth grade, treated them unfairly, my daughter was the one that would respectfully say, I don't think the way that you're treating me is fair. And the school called me, and she was in trouble for it, and I adamantly disagreed. And it's happened so often that they've just. They just stopped calling me.

[Shawn French]

Don't call Derek.

[Derek Fay]

You know, so happy that she's graduated.

[Shawn French]

Like, get the, like, chick out of here, dude.

[Derek Fay]

You're out of.

[Shawn French]

Thank God. She makes too much worldly sin.

[Derek Fay]

Too much worldly.

[Shawn French]

It's funny, so. Because, you know, my little one will come home.

[Derek Fay]

Yep.

[Shawn French]

She's very empathetic. She feels everything. She's just incredible. Very talented. And she. She'll talk about something that happened during the day. And she goes. She's sassy. I don't think I was treated fairly there. And I think it was wrong. And I think. I think I need to say something. And my wife goes, honey, when you go and you say something to your teacher or if someone treats you poorly, I don't care who it is. Say, I don't. I feel there's another way we can talk about, like, I don't like how I feel when you talk to me like that. Can we try again? Like, she's six. But, like, dude, I'm with you on that, though.

[Derek Fay]

But so many people squash that. And if you don't think that that presents itself in your child when they're an adult, when they're afraid to speak up for themselves in really important situations, you're dead wrong.

[Shawn French]

Yeah, you're going to be. Corporate situations. They're going to be used up working on weekends because they can't draw the.

[Derek Fay]

Boundary or with their partner or with their friendships or whoever.

[Shawn French]

Yeah.

[Derek Fay]

And so, I mean, a little bit of a tangent there, but it all does kind of tie in, too.

[Shawn French]

Yeah. No, I love it because, like, this conversation has been, like, a wide variety of things. Right. It's. It's about giving value and not judging what value we bring to the audience. And we talked about business, we talked about losses, we talked about process, accountability, all these different things. And we hit on parenting and, you know, how to, you know, overcome certain things. And. And, dude, it's just been an amazing conversation. I just, you know, I. I don't want to leave the conversation without you talking a little bit about 3F management, though. So can you talk about that a little bit? Because there's a lot of, you know, this show was an entrepreneurial show for so long until we switched to, you know, a different category. And we. And we've hung on to the audience, so, you know, there might be somebody out there that needs 3F management.

[Derek Fay]

Yeah, well, let. I'll try to make this as concise as humanly possible. I started 3F Management in 2002. I called it a venture capital firm because it sounded fancy and really, it wasn't a venture capital firm at that point, in the sense that I wasn't bringing in other people's money. I was building brands from the ground up, and I built over 30 of them, which, when I say it every time, it seems incredible to me that that's. It's true. I just exited my 33rd company two weeks ago in Texas. And then at the end of, say, 2019, I had owned 100% of all the companies. And so I had a lot of great people that worked with me because no one has ever worked for me. Everyone has always worked with me, and that's been a mantra of Mine for my entire career. And it's been very meaningful to people and to me like that I started. I decided that I wanted to start bringing in JVs. And so every company that I own for the past three or four years, I have not owned 100%. I've had really strong operational partners in a variety of success, you know, for a variety of reasons, but that was kind of the benchmark. And so we gathered over the course of a three year period, about 46 different brands and companies. And over the past 12 months, we sorted and sold. And the reason that we did that is, as you can imagine, 46 different entrepreneurs, 46 different personalities. And a lot of times when they hear, whether it's my name or a founder or 3F manager of Venture capital, they believe that means you're going to get our resources, our time, our energy, our connections, and you're going to sit back and the company's just going to explode. And now that sounds silly to an entrepreneur, but it is so true. And so that's a lot of words to say that we are once again changing direction. We're going to now I was just building and then I was just JV ing and now we're going to have a nice mix of both building corporately owned assets and being very choosy with the entrepreneurs that we partner with. And so that's kind of the next iteration. We are agnostic to industry. I don't care what you're doing. I care how you're doing it. I don't care how much money you may be making today. I care about who you are, if you fit in my ecosystem. And that's 3F management.

[Shawn French]

I love it, man. Yeah, I love it, dude. I love it, dude. Thank you so much for coming on the show, man.

[Derek Fay]

Conversation at the gym.

[Shawn French]

I know. Seriously, it's like this thing on. Hello. So everybody that just listened to the show, watched it. Do us a favor and share the show with somebody you know love and trust. That will get a lot of value out of Derek's stories and the things that he has explained that help him become as successful as he is in his life. So we appreciate you. Share the heck out of it. Until next time. Stay determined.

[Lucker]

Sharp French. What up? This one, Lucker. Let the painters inspire me. I put my all in. Everything I'm doing up until it's done, I'm me for the entirety. I'll put in overtime. I'll be working. Just know I'm a go for mine because I earned it. They watch and I know it's time I confirmed it. The whole society determined, determined.