How Horses Heal the Mind and Body

Summary

Podcast Summary: “How Horses Heal the Mind and Body”

Podcast: The Determined Society with Shawn French
Host: Shawn French
Air Date: November 10, 2025
Guests: Michelle, Christian, and Leah from the Naples Therapeutic Riding Center

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the world of equine-assisted therapy by showcasing the Naples Therapeutic Riding Center, a transformative nonprofit in Naples, Florida. Host Shawn French speaks with Michelle, Christian, and lead trainer Leah to uncover the science, stories, and emotional resonance behind therapeutic riding. Across vivid examples and personal testimonies, the discussion demonstrates horses’ unique ability to heal mind, body, and spirit—for riders, families, and even the horses themselves.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mission and Scale of Naples Therapeutic Riding Center

• Serves individuals with "additional needs"—mental, physical, or social—through interactions with horses.
  • “We serve individuals with additional needs … through the help of our horses.” — Michelle [00:00]
• Over 800 community members and 115 therapeutic riders benefit annually, encompassing 50+ diagnoses.
  • “Over 50 diagnoses … and we’re serving about 115 therapeutic riders, but over 800 individuals annually.” — Michelle [02:07]
• The facility grew from humble beginnings in 1997 to a 10-acre campus, largely due to volunteer and donor support.
  • “It’s incredible what volunteers have done in order to grow this place.” — Christian [02:35]

2. How Horses Heal: The Science and Sensory Experience

• Riding a horse mimics the human walking gait, providing significant sensory and neurocognitive stimulation.
  • “The horse manipulates our spine in the way that a human would walk, and it helps with the neurocognitive feedback that we receive.” — Michelle [04:05]
• Horses synchronize with the rider’s heart rate; their emotional regulation helps regulate the human in turn.
  • “Horses sync with our heart rates. … Their emotional regulation will help a person’s emotional regulation.” — Michelle [05:17]
• Sensory trails and guided activities (occupational therapy) are designed to develop physical, cognitive, and social skills.

3. Transformative Stories: Impact on Riders and Families

• Therapy brings moments of breakthrough—mobility, speech, social interaction—that ripple out to families.
  • Story of a reluctant memory care resident opening up and engaging emotionally through a mini horse visit.
  • Example of a nonverbal rider who began to communicate during sessions, bringing hope to families.
  • “Her daughter was standing in our waiting area crying, watching her mom have the freedom and smile for the first time in goodness knows how long.” — Michelle [14:11]

4. Building Confidence & Overcoming Fear

• Conquering the challenge of working with horses builds both physical and emotional confidence.
  • “Do the hard thing to build confidence. … You have that fear, right, then you overcome that fear with the support from the trainers and the community.” — Shawn [11:29]
• Progress happens step by step, from supported walking to solo riding, and extends socially as well.

5. Symbiotic Healing: Horses and Humans Both Benefit

• Horses rescued from difficult circumstances also heal by participating in therapy.
  • Colt, a rescue, “shows up each day ready to work, with his version of a smile.” — Michelle [21:46]
• There’s a focus on exemplary animal care, healthy environments, and recognizing horses’ emotional growth.

6. The Role of Volunteers: Therapy for All

• Volunteers play a pivotal role—every lesson involves multiple helpers, building a supportive community.
• Many volunteers and staff find personal therapeutic benefits from their work with horses and riders.
  • “It’s not just therapy for the riders. It’s therapy for us.” — Leah [29:58]
  • “When we have a rider up ... they might be a little anxious. … As soon as the horse starts to move forward, they’re just … in this wonderful, peaceful place.” — Christian [15:26]

7. Unique Programs: From Minis to Ground Therapy

• Mini horse outreach brings therapy to assisted living and memory care communities.
• Ground programs serve individuals battling addiction, trauma, or other life challenges through non-riding equine interaction.
  • “We had abused women that came. I have heard numerous times that is the best hour of my life. I forgot about being an addict.” — Leah [30:55]

8. Lessons in Presence, Emotional Regulation & Connection

• All participants are encouraged to be present, leave emotional baggage at the barn, and practice mindful breathing.
  • “It teaches people to be truly present.” — Shawn [30:17]
• Horses respond directly to humans’ emotional states, reflecting and revealing issues that can be addressed in and beyond the arena.

9. Growth Beyond Therapy

• Riders develop life skills—confidence, communication, independence—and some move on to college or careers.
  • “She now has a boyfriend and … is an accountant.” — Leah [40:58]
  • “It gives them a ton of confidence.” — Leah [41:56]
• Inclusive summer camps foster acceptance and teach children lessons in empathy and difference.
  • “There’s no judgment. … They accept each other as they are and go off laughing and holding hands.” — Leah [38:10]

10. The “Hidden Gem” and Lessons for Society

• Naples Therapeutic Riding Center is often described as a “hidden gem behind the red wall,” symbolizing unseen but profound impact.
• The environment reflects values the hosts see as lacking in society: unity, presence, connection, mutual growth.
  • “Your favorite moments are exactly what most of society is missing right now.” — Shawn [35:12]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Healing:
  • “People don’t understand him, but animals do. And our horses provided so much for him.” — Michelle [08:43]
• On Volunteers and Presence:
  • “We ask them to leave their baggage at the barn because everyone has it … just leave that out in the parking lot and go enjoy the horses.” — Leah [30:03]
• On Confidence:
  • “They were very nervous … to have it become one of their favorite activities throughout the week, and then we watch the progress from … confidence on the horse, to being able to walk supported with a walker, to walking supported with mom’s hand.” — Michelle [12:12]
• On Horses Healing Too:
  • “Colt was a neglect situation … and he shows up each day ready to work, you know, with his version of a smile on his face.” — Michelle [21:46]
• On Core Values:
  • “Where you do something in one area is going to show up somewhere else in your life.” — Shawn [32:10]
• The Human Need for Connection:
  • “It’s all about the connection part. I think that’s probably the best moments I see.” — Leah [34:14]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–02:07 — Introduction to the Naples Therapeutic Riding Center and its Mission
• 04:05–06:41 — How Riding Mimics Human Movement and Influences the Brain
• 09:25–14:11 — Personal Stories of Transformation & The Power of the Programs
• 17:12–19:10 — Personal Reflection: How the Work Impacts the Staff
• 21:31–22:50 — Healing Horses: Stories of Rescue and Mutual Recovery
• 24:23–25:40 — Lead Trainer Leah: 20 Years of Motivation, Rewards, and Progress
• 27:08–29:18 — Techniques for Building Sensory Awareness, Core Strength, and Emotional Regulation
• 30:03–32:44 — Therapy Benefits for Volunteers, Ground Programs for Addiction/Abuse Recovery
• 38:10–39:51 — Summer Camp Inclusivity and Life Lessons from Children
• 40:58–42:09 — Riders’ Long-Term Growth: College, Careers, Families

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Final Takeaways

This episode powerfully illustrates the transformative potential of equine-assisted therapy. Horses enable healing and growth not just for people with visible needs, but for everyone involved—including caregivers, volunteers, and the animals themselves. The lessons of presence, resilience, empathy, and non-judgment radiate from behind the “red wall,” offering a microcosm of the unity and healing so needed in society today.

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For more information or to get involved:
Check out Naples Therapeutic Riding Center online, volunteer, or visit a local accredited therapeutic riding center.

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Host’s Closing Message:
“Every day, try something new, try something small that scares you a little bit and see what the reaction that you’re going to have is. … Don’t judge the stage you’re at. Embrace it. Love that stage, because that’s where you’re built. That’s where you’re built.” — Shawn French [43:13]

Transcript

[Michelle]

Naples therapeutic riding center has been in naples for nearly 30 years. We were incorporated in 1997, and we serve individuals with additional needs. So mental, physical, or social health needs through the help of our horses.

[Christian]

This place is, I don't know, a little bit of a hidden gem behind the red wall. There's so many stories that happen every day.

[Michelle]

There was a young person who brought their mother who rode for the first time. She was standing in our waiting area crying. What it was is to watch her mom have the freedom and to see her mom smile for the first and goodness knows how long. Came from the back of our horse.

[Leah]

It's not just therapy for the riders. It's therapy for us.

[Interviewer]

It's amazing.

[Leah]

People who are battling maybe alcoholism or addiction or some form of that. We had abused women that came. I have heard numerous times that is the best hour of my life. I forgot about being an addict.

[Interviewer]

It teaches people to be truly present.

[Leah]

And the horses sense that. They do.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, they do. How am I doing, guys? Do you guys feel me in my present? What's up, everybody? We're here at the Naples therapeutic writing Center. This place is 10 acres of just absolute beauty and wholesomeness. I have with me today Christian and Michelle. Thank you guys so much for joining me. This place is incredible.

[Michelle]

We appreciate you having or, well, you having us on the show, but we are so appreciative of welcoming you to our campus.

[Interviewer]

Well, it's been amazing. You know, two cups of coffee in. You guys have done a great job of fulfilling my coffee addiction early on, so I think that's special.

[Christian]

We aim to please.

[Interviewer]

Thank you. I get to see that. There's just so many great things going on here. We got a chance to tour the facility before and get some nice video. And seeing some of the therapy that goes along with the riders and the head trainer, Leah, that's been here for 20 years. I think she's coming in a little bit later, But I just love what I'm seeing here. Why don't you walk me through who you guys serve here locally and what the mission is?

[Michelle]

Perfect. Well, Naples therapeutic riding center has been in naples for nearly 30 years. We were incorporated in 1997, and we serve individuals with additional needs. So mental, physical, or social health needs through the help of our horses.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[Michelle]

And with that, that's a wide range. So over 50 diagnoses currently among our riders, and we're serving about 115 therapeutic riders, but over 800 individuals within our community annually.

[Interviewer]

That's incredible. You made me feel really old. For a second. Because you said 30 years ago, 1997, I'm like, Gosh, that's when I graduated high school. Coming up on my. I'm 30 years out again.

[Christian]

You're a little bit younger than me.

[Interviewer]

Just a couple years.

[Christian]

Just a wee bit.

[Interviewer]

Just a couple years. So how long have you been here, Michelle? Talk about your experience.

[Christian]

I've been here since the beginning of January. But I think what's amazing is that over the past 30 years, it's incredible what volunteers have done in order to grow this place. So we started in 1997 out of that iconic red barn that's right on Goodlett Road. And over time, the board of directors and volunteers raise funds in order for us to get to the 10 acres of space that we're at today. In 2007, the Naples Children's Festival.

[Leah]

Right.

[Christian]

Naples Children Foundation Foundation. Sorry, we gotta take the W, the E out of it. Naples Children's foundation helped build the first arena right over there. And then we've expanded ever since. So it's just been amazing. When you connect the riders and the volunteers together, that's where the magic happens.

[Interviewer]

Well, I just. What I've seen early on, right. So we talk about, you know, you said what, 80 diagnosis, or was it 50?

[Leah]

50.

[Interviewer]

50. So 50 diagnosis. I've seen, you know, you have. Whether it's anxiety or whether it's mental and physical impairments. I've already seen some therapy go on today. Like right over here at the sensory trail, there was, you know, Leah, she had a rider on the horse, and they were throwing balls into the net, but then spinning it and trying to get them to, you know, make sure that they didn't hit the bar so that they can have those types of sensory and motor development skills. How does the occupational. Occupational therapy tie into the mental aspect?

[Michelle]

Sure, Absolutely. So individuals with additional needs often face multiple types of therapies throughout the week. So, you know, while we might have, you know, our riders come for their therapeutic riding session or trot, which is therapeutic riding, occupational therapy, or ot, which is occupational therapy, this is giving them the sensory input of the horses. So whenever we're talking about therapeutic riding, the reason that it works is the horse manipulates our spine in the way that a human would walk, and it helps with the neurocognitive feedback that we receive. So the movement of the horse alongside the activities and skills that are all lesson planned by our therapeutic riding instructors and the professionals, such as our occupational therapist that's on staff or anyone that we partner with is instrumental in the development of their successes.

[Interviewer]

It's amazing to me because you said, I think you said something along the lines of picking up the sensory of the horses. I'm like, wait a second, how does that work? So for the audience that may have missed that before, can you explain again on how the horse move manipulates how a human would walk?

[Michelle]

Yeah, so it mimics our walk. Okay, so if you think about riding a horse and we're on a nice bouncy chair right now, so I can kind of give you the rocking back and forth. So it is similar to the movement of a human's natural gait. And we get a cognitive feedback from our neurostimulation of our walk. So the horses provide that for individuals who maybe are a little more rigid or unable to perform it in a natural way for themselves. In addition to it also helps with the cognitive function by providing that stimulation. So even for an individual who may be able to walk normally, it still helps improve brain function. So there has been, you know, numerous studies that are based upon that aspect of it. And then also too, it is the fact that horses are prey animals. So horses sync with our heart rates. And if we talk about and leaning into maybe more of the anxiety side of things, we can look at how a horse's emotional regulation will help a person's emotional regulation. So if we're nervous or we're carrying a lot of negative energy that comes with us that day, or maybe it is anxiety on the back of a horse and we're leaning into, you know, asking how the all around experience helps. It will require the rider to then have a understanding of their own emotion to be able to support their horse in that situation as well.

[Interviewer]

I did not know that. Like the fact that a horse can mimic your heart rate and help you slow it down and recalibrate that. Right. This is what I'm hearing, you know, because you hear animals, right? There's, you know, you hear a lot about service dogs and how that helps other people's, how it helps people's lives on a daily basis. I know some individuals that were bodybuilders. And then you, you've probably seen the guy at the gym and, and he, he'll bring his dog to Publix with him. And I always kind of sit there. I'm like, does that really work? Right? Because like, I'm not one that needed that. Right. But to see larger animals play a part in that, I think it's special because they're so big and it's like have so Much force. But when I'm walking through the barn back there and I'm, I'm petting Fury, Sadie and Indy and then of course we got, let's, let's introduce back here we have Raisin is the brown and white. Then we have Itty bitty right here. And the, the eyes on this, this mini horse is absolutely gorgeous. But it just, it helps me put the pieces together. It's not that I don't believe it, it's just I haven't experienced it, but being here for the last hour or so, I can see how this could be a huge benefit to people.

[Michelle]

It is. And the things that I've experienced here because I come from a private background with horses of riding barrel horses for my own personal pleasure. And I found NTRC just by happenstance of what's behind the big red wall here on Goodlett. And I got more involved and then I got certified through PATH International, which is the professional association of Therapeutic Horsemanship International, to perform ground based programs. And thankfully my previous and still co workers. But my primary role to start at NTRC was the mini horse program allowed me to see a different side of things. And when I would take them to assisted living communities or a memory care community, I would have individuals who wouldn't interact with the typical activities that were provided throughout the week.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Michelle]

So we would have a gentleman who the very first time was reluctant to come out of his room. You know, he heard that there was an activity for the day and did not want to come and visit us. And finally we got him to come into the common space to visit our horses in their living room. They wear shoes, diapers, very sanitary. But he came around the corner and he started to cry and he came over and had an intimate conversation with me to let me know that people don't understand him, but animals do. And our horses provided so much for him in those visits that we performed while he had his residence at that specific community.

[Interviewer]

That's amazing. That's the thing, like you guys have so many programs here, so I didn't know that was one of the things that you guys do. Michelle, what's your favorite program here, if you're allowed to pick one?

[Christian]

I think just the therapeutic riding program. I love Monday through Friday and actually on Saturdays we have kids and adults come over and we have the same group of people every single week. So you get to actually see the progress and actually see the families witness the progress of their children on the horses. So it's just amazing. Also for the volunteers, the Volunteers usually are paired with the riders and they actually help the riders use some of the skills, like a specific skill that one might be focusing on is focusing or working on attention. And so the volunteers will help them with that skill, saying, okay, we're going to be going up here and we're going to be taking a right. Go ahead, touch your reins and help. Pull to the right. There you go. And then encouraging them and giving them positive feedback in order for them to move forward with those skills. So it's just great. There's the leader and two sidewalkers that are with each rider when we have a lesson. So every lesson has at least three volunteers with the rider. And it's amazing to see when you have six individuals in the ring, that means there's 18 volunteers from our community helping kids move forward with whatever skill they're trying to get towards. So each, when a rider comes, they are put through like an intake process and figuring out where they need to be, possibly after 30 weeks in the program. And so every week it's a step by step to figure out where they are, and then we measure those results along the way. And it's just great having those same volunteers and riders help them to meet those goals.

[Interviewer]

It's amazing. I keep thinking about this one reoccurring theme that I have in my head and. And society really does know this. I'm not. It's nothing proprietary, but do the hard thing to build confidence. Right. When I think about these big animals at the beginning, it could be very stressful for a child or even adult. You put me on one of those things, I'm going to be very anxious because I've never ridden a horse before. Right. So. But you have that fear, right. Then you overcome that fear with the support from the trainers and the community. How have you seen some of these young children, even adults, raise their confidence level by doing something hard? And how has it benefited just their overall, I guess you would say their growth here?

[Michelle]

Yep, it's huge. And I can speak to it on certain individuals who maybe when they started our program, needed extreme assistance walking.

[Interviewer]

So this is. You're talking more for more of a profound case right now.

[Michelle]

Yes, very, very profound case. But, you know, they were very nervous because, you know, immobility themselves. You know, how are they going to be able to move upon a horse and how is this horse going to take care of them and to have it become one of their favorite activities throughout the week, you know, to want to show up and then we watch the progress from not only the confidence of on the horse, but then the confidence to be able to walk supported with a walker and then walk supported with mom's hand in theirs. You know, those are the cases that we see that are the most extreme. There's also just a sense of the growth in our riders in the state of, you know, maybe participating more in activities. You know, they might be unwilling at the beginning to speak, and by a couple weeks in, they're just wanting to chat the entire time to their sidewalkers. So there's a social aspect, too. So we talk about confidence. It comes in different forms for so many people.

[Interviewer]

Well, I mean, to your point, because you're. You're saying it's cute, but I mean, like, for somebody that is more nonverbal and nervous to speak, that's a massive win.

[Christian]

100%.

[Interviewer]

I mean, because. And not just for the. The adult or. Or the child, but for the people involved in their life that. That are with them every day, interacting with them every day, not getting anything back, but when that moment happens and they're able to hear their child speak or maybe their wife speak for the first time in a long time, I would just imagine it's a very touching experience.

[Michelle]

It's very rewarding, and it's rewarding for everyone that's here. And I even think that our horses feel that way too, because it's interesting to watch how they interact. But for our volunteers, for our staff, I mean, it is what makes everyone show up. It's why Leah's been here for over 20 years.

[Interviewer]

That's wild.

[Michelle]

Who is extremely dedicated to our mission, and she comes to ensure that her riders see the growth nonstop. And also, too, you don't realize what the families get out of it. I participated in evaluations this past Friday where we have new rider intake to see if this program will be a fit for them. And there was a young person who brought their mother who rode for the first time, and the young person is now her caretaker. And she was standing in our waiting area crying. And what it was is to watch her mom have the freedom and to see her mom smile for the first time in goodness knows how long. Man came from the back of our horse.

[Interviewer]

That's. That's powerful. I mean, you guys are doing amazing work here. You guys ever sit and reflect? I'm going to ask this question's for you, Michelle. And then obviously, I want. Christian, I want to know what you think about it. Would you ever go home and reflect on these moments? Because in a world that has so much noise in It. We always want to know, are we making that true impact that we want to make and what is it for? Is it for me or is it for somebody else? Have you ever gone home and just reflected on that situation right there? And to sit there and say, you know what? What I'm doing is really good, and I'm giving back to the world?

[Christian]

I think every day. And I think that's why I really believe that this place is, I don't know, a little bit of a hidden gem, you know, behind the red wall. There's so many stories that happen every day. We try to, you know, work on getting them out, but those stories are powerful. And we also listen to the writers. You know, some of the. I wish I could. I want to. And we bring that feedback back and maybe the next time we do some of those things in order to help them get to the next level. So it's really, truly amazing. And I love when you're sidewalking next to someone and they just have different things that, like you said, make them kind of calm. So one of our volunteers recently said, like, this place is great because it's just so calm. And when we have a rider up, they might be a little anxious, like, oh, I don't really like the way my helmet fits. It's driving me crazy. Just like you and I would like, oh, it's driving me crazy. But as soon as the horse starts to move forward and the volunteers get to move forward, they're in a little bit of a different zone, and they're just, you know, in this wonderful, peaceful place, walking around, listening directions and kind of just at one with the horse. And it's just a lovely symbiotic feeling that both the rider and. I think you're right. The horse also gets. And we're able to be there as sidewalkers and leaders and obviously certified therapeutic writing instructors to witness that. It's amazing.

[Interviewer]

It's amazing when you listen to what people need, right? When they're in there in the office talking about what their anxieties are. I don't want to say issues, but they're things that are holding them back. You're able to dig in and say, okay, well, maybe this type of therapy. Right. But what's your feedback? Real quick on that?

[Michelle]

Yep, absolutely. So I mentioned to you, at the end of the day, you know, NTRC stands because it's not about anyone who is here, but I can tell you about my personal experience, and I can tell you about someone who has touched my heart so deeply that you Ask if I've gone home and reflected. I've gone home and I've cried.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's amazing.

[Michelle]

And I previously mentioned I was a barrel racer. And I have a young woman who has become a very close, you know, rider. But also I would like to thank a friend and her name is Juju. Juju and her family have given me permission to state her name. And all that she wants is to be a barrel racer. And this previous season, we retired the horse that she rode and she came back and she has a different instructor, a different horse, a different saddle, and different opportunities. And even with all the support of our instructors to do everything correctly, it was still very difficult. So knowing that, my experience of being able to tell her, you know, well, barrel racers, we change equipment all the time. You know, we ride different horses all the time. And to walk her through that and to be able to help and if it is just for her that I've been able to provide that support, my time here has been beyond worth it. That's amazing because she is rooted so deep in my heart at this point in time.

[Interviewer]

That's so cool because I sit there and think like when I do interviews and I, this, this is what I do for a job. But I also have to be very connected to how it's also helping me grow. Right. And I always think of the journey, the hard parts, the stress. Right. I mentioned to you guys last week was probably one of the most stressful weeks I've had in this business. Right. But, you know, I feel like it's just like working a muscle. You get through those hard times, you find a solution and then you move forward. Right. But Michelle, from your experience, how has it personally touched you in such a way?

[Christian]

I think it's all about the people, you know, the people helping me grow. Christian's been amazing just with her knowledge about horses and barrel racing and the do's and the don'ts. She's just helped me grow in ways that I never even knew that I needed to grow. And as running the organizations, there's just so much that I feel like we need to do and needs to be done here. And again, going back, the volunteer group really is. I can't say it enough. Right. The volunteers really make this place thrive and shine alongside with our a wonderful group of team members. I mean, if it wasn't for the volunteers, you know, the staff probably wouldn't be here. So there's constant different things that we want to do on a daily basis or a weekly basis, whether it's refreshing our beautiful sensory trails so we can actually go around and have the students have a great experience, whether it's expanding our back paddock so our horses aren't always in their stalls and can be free at night and enjoy their time here on campus. There's just all of those things for me, are just wonderful and just making it better and better every day. Just taking baby steps. I just really. I love that. And hearing the feedback from the volunteers and the staff to try to mold and get the things accomplished that they like to get accomplished in a very quick time. You know, when I do it now exactly is something that I. That I kind of get excited about and try to try to work towards.

[Interviewer]

I have an interesting question for both of you. Same question. So this place is geared around helping individuals get over some things, whether it's mental, physical, emotional. Have you guys ever had a horse come in that was struggling, that was casted out, maybe abandoned and not operating at the best level that that horse could? And through the therapy with the riders in the community, it healed that horse, and the horse became better as a result.

[Michelle]

I believe that all of our horses get better whenever they come here. One, I can't pride us enough on the horse care that we allow our horses to have pampered every single day.

[Interviewer]

Why just walk through there? I'm like, are you sure this is a horse stall? This is, like, super clean.

[Michelle]

And we're very pro. Our horses get everything that a major athletic horse would. So, you know, anything from injections to that type of things, you see. But you have a horse that is behind you right now that is named Colt. And Colt was adopted from eraf, which is the Equine Rescue Adoption foundation on the east coast of Florida. And he was a previous seizure case that he was a neglect situation that was taken by their version of the domestic animal services alongside that organization who brought him in, rehabilitated him, and then allowed him to shine through their beginning again program. So through that, when Colt came here, you know, he already had a little bit of a history, but not leaning onto it. But people understanding that he's also been through something difficult allows them to relate to him as well. And he shows up each day ready to work, you know, with his version of what I think a smile was on his face. And he might not be the fastest in the arena.

[Christian]

He's a crowd favorite, though.

[Michelle]

But he is absolutely.

[Interviewer]

That's really awesome because you think of, you know, organizations and anything we do in the community, it's a win. Win. Yeah, you have to have the win, win. So it's nice. It's nice to hear that. It also serves the horses right because you don't want them being miserable and. And the people being okay. It's just everybody coming together and. And grow. It's. It's really awesome. I mean, this place, like you mentioned, you know, going through the. The barns, I'm like, this is. How. How is this like, it's so clean. It's as a fly runs through my face. They're liking me, by the way. I'm new blood. They're all over me. But, no, it's just. Everything has been pristine here. Just beautiful.

[Christian]

So we have volunteers that come and muck every single day in the morning and then in season in the evening. So every single morning, we'll have three to four.

[Leah]

And they're.

[Christian]

Typically, there's women and men, but a lot of women come and muck all the stalls, and they are focused on tidy, tidy, tidy.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[Christian]

And it's amazing, right? It's amazing. Mucking every single day.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that doesn't sound like fun.

[Christian]

Yes. We also have amazing volunteers also that come and help us take care of the painting of the fences, taking the trees, everything. So there's just this love for this piece of property. There's a love for the riders and, of course, the love for the horses. And again, all three of it, all of that coming together, it's just. It's a win. Win. Sit.

[Interviewer]

That's beautiful. It's good to hear. So now we are joined by Leah, the lead trainer here at Naples Writing center, and she has been here for 20 years.

[Leah]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You know, like, I listen, there's not too many people that can hold the same job without getting bored for 20 years. All right, so kudos to you. What is it about the place that keeps you here so long?

[Leah]

It's the rewards, the little rewards, the big rewards, the horses. Honestly, I started here because of the horses, but the riders have taken my heart and keep me coming back. It's the little, tiny steps, picking up the reins to trotting alone. You know, there's just all different improvements and goals that our riders meet. Some riders may never meet the goal that their parents, you know, want them to, or I might have. But every time they come, they go away with something, and there's a little, tiny advance to the goal.

[Interviewer]

I can see the passion, and I can feel it coming from you. And in fact, I've got the opportunity to see you work with two riders this morning in the sensory trail, and then over There. And what is that called? The proper terminology? Because I'll butcher it.

[Leah]

The round arena.

[Interviewer]

The round arena. That's pretty simple. I don't know how. Hey, who knows? I'm good at some things, but that's clearly not it. No, it's just been really nice to see you in action, working with the riders. Can you walk us through some of the riders that you worked with today and what you were helping them with?

[Leah]

Yeah, absolutely. The first two that were there, they ride with us during the week also. So this is their occupational therapy session that they do. And the one is getting the rider to focus and follow directions and not interrupt and be patient. And the other one has a lot of sensory issues as far as where their body is at. So they don't really have any proprial perception as to they leaning too far. They very nervous about turning, you know, and anything. So we challenge them that way. We have them look at the occupational therapist behind them or can they catch a ball from behind and really challenge. Challenge them? You have to learn where you have to stop your challenging. Like last week she had a really bad week because we pushed her and pushed her, and then this week she did so well. We kind of ended on a good note. It's kind of like when you're working with a horse, you want to end on a good note. So we do that with our riders also.

[Interviewer]

Now, was that the young lady in the sensory trail that you were throwing the ball into, the spinning basket?

[Leah]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Leah]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Walk the audience through that because I thought that was pretty fascinating.

[Leah]

Yes. So that's our basketball hoop that we just. When we fixed up our sensory trail that they put out there. So not only do the. Is it hand eye coordination, it's waiting, you know, I'm like, wait until I spin the basket and then spinning it and figuring out how far they have to throw it or how hard can they catch it on the horse, do they use. Can they hold their reins and still use two hands to catch the ball? So it's a lot of processing.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Leah]

There's a lot of hand, eye coordination, as I said, and then just getting the two points going through the hoop.

[Interviewer]

There's a lot of balance there too, if you think about it, and stability in the core. Right. Like having to turn to your point. It's hard for them sometimes to look and know how far they're leaning or how far to turn. So, you know what I saw, it was just here, like, you know, so it helps with a lot of different things. Right. And that can help with posture, that can help with a multitude of things for these riders. So it was just really cool to see.

[Leah]

Yes. Some of our riders don't have that sense. You know, am I turning too far? So just working on it little by little. Maybe start in front of them and then go the side. Go the side and eventually kind of get behind them. And our horses have to get desensitized to that also, because that's very scary for a horse to have something tossed to them from behind when they don't know what it is. Yes.

[Interviewer]

So how do they adjust to that?

[Leah]

We work with them. When we bring a horse in, we do a trial period and we try to do everything we use out there, our props and, you know, show them it's not going to eat them and be good for them. Some acclimate very quickly. Others, it takes a while. So we're always very cautious when we're doing anything new and working with, you know, the new horses. And then the riders, we explain to them, you know, hold your reins so she knows you're still up there and don't jerk real hard or, you know, all the different things that help the horse settle in.

[Interviewer]

Well, how do you work with riders that are initially timid? Right. Because they always say, you know, show no fear. Right. Because the horse will pick up on that. How do you train them and teach them or coach them on how to, I guess, relieve some of that fear of that anxiety so it's not passing to the horse.

[Leah]

Sometimes if a rider comes and we're evaluating them and they're very nervous and not getting on, I usually ask the parent, can I just put them on? And if I can lift them, if there's, you know, little, I just pick them up and put them on. Because once I get them on and get that motion, then they're usually like, oh, this isn't as bad. If we still are struggling to get them on, I let them pet them and talk to them and explain. I might sit on the horse and show them what they're gonna, you know, how they're gonna look when they're sitting on it. And then when they're on, if they still have the anxiety or if they get frustrated, because sometimes we challenge them and they get very frustrated, we will talk about breathing. You know, take a deep breath.

[Interviewer]

Very cool.

[Leah]

And then the horse senses that also, because when your rider gets excited or anxious, your horse gets a little nervous because they're feeling that. So then we're going to take it. And we always say it's helping the horse, you know, take a deep breath, breathe out. And I have to ask the volunteers to do that also, because everyone gets this upbeat, you know, going. So once everyone starts breathing and relaxing, the horse relax, the rider relaxes, and we usually can accomplish.

[Interviewer]

So I just had a thought, because you started talking about the sidewalkers and the volunteers. I don't. And you guys probably already know this, but have you thought about how much this helps the volunteers and the sidewalkers in their own emotional regulation?

[Leah]

We hear it all the time. We hear it all the time. It's not just therapy for the riders. It's therapy for us.

[Interviewer]

It's amazing.

[Leah]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

It's truly amazing.

[Leah]

And we ask them to leave their baggage at the barn because everyone has it had a bad day, Traffic stunk coming in here. Took you.

[Interviewer]

I'm tired of nap.

[Leah]

Just leave that out in the parking lot and go enjoy the horses. And then everyone.

[Interviewer]

It teaches people to be truly present.

[Leah]

Yes. And the horses sense that.

[Interviewer]

They do. How am I doing, guys? Do you guys feel me in my present? It looks like they got the. They ate everything.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So that's good. It a bit. He was tossing it back this way.

[Leah]

We have ground programs that we work.

[Interviewer]

That's what I was going to ask you because, you know, I had asked that question specifically because if someone can't get on a horse right away, do you guys go to the ground therapy, you know, for, you know, maybe the grooming aspect to get them comfortable and familiar with the horse. So they. They. I guess that sensory type. So they get through the. The fear.

[Leah]

Well, our ground programs are actually based with an organization and it. People who are battling maybe alcoholism or addiction or some form of that. We had abused women that came. So they don't ride, but they get a bond with the horse. And they. I have heard numerous times that's the best hour of my life. I forgot about being an addict. So they. They leave their space and their troubles and they relate to the horse. Now if they don't, the horse shows me that they're having issues and they will blame the horse. Oh, I don't like this horse. This horse doesn't like me. And I'm like, why did you say that? Like, I don't see that.

[Interviewer]

You know, how would the horse tell you?

[Leah]

They might put their ears back. They might turn their butt to the person. They don't connect.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Leah]

And we had a horse that didn't like that program. So I would just always say, we're not picking that horse. He's off today. You know.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Leah]

But you can tell. So once I explain to the person that's working with the horse, I think your putting some of your issues on the horse. So let's just step back, take a breath again. You're breathing and, you know, pet the horse on the neck, feel their heartbeat, let them sense yours. And then usually they can work it out. But they do like to blame the horse first.

[Interviewer]

See, I. I love that, Leah, because I'm looking at this as a. As an overall thing. Right. And I. Where you do something in one area is going to show up somewhere else in your life too. So it helps those individuals when you say, hey, I think you're passing your issues along to the horse. Now they can think of like, wait a second, where else is that showing up? Right. I think it's super important.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So it just, you know, it's not just getting over certain things like alcohol, alcoholism. I can't even speak right now. But. But to get through, like, wait a second, where else am I doing this in my life? And how is it impacting not just me, but my relationships?

[Leah]

And we debrief at the end of those sessions, and that's something that comes up like. So that happened. When that happens in your life, what do you do about that? Like, do you get all mad and crush? You know, I always talk about body language. Horses are so receptive to body language. And I'll use an example. Like, if I'm standing here with my arms crossed, you know, tapping my foot, do you want to approach me? Probably not.

[Interviewer]

Probably not.

[Leah]

But if I'm a little more open and genuine, you know, it's easier. So think about that when you go into a room and the precedents you're setting. Think about that when you go into your horse's stall. It's the same thing.

[Interviewer]

Exactly. You want to. Real quick, side note, you know, the first time I pet a horse my entire life was today.

[Leah]

Really?

[Interviewer]

I've always been afraid to. Oh, yeah. So Sadie was happy to do that for you. I know. So, like, for me, it's just about working through small things. Right. And I'm in an environment that I trust.

[Leah]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Well, let me see. And. And wow, it was really cool. Like, I could feel certain things that were kind of underlying that were bothering me go away for that brief moment.

[Leah]

Right.

[Interviewer]

So that's really cool. I'm asking you one really, one more hard, really hard question. It might be impossible for you to answer it. In 20 years, you've gone through so much here, and you've done so much with the horses and the riders and the volunteers. Right. And every employee here. What has been your favorite moment in those 20 years?

[Leah]

There's so many.

[Interviewer]

I told you it was gonna be a hard question.

[Leah]

It is a hard question.

[Interviewer]

It was designed that way. I'll never know if you're lying to me so you can tell me what's wrong.

[Leah]

Exactly. I'm gonna kind of generalize it and just say seeing goals reached, people bonding, whether it's volunteers bonding with the riders, families bonding together, because it's a great networking atmosphere, riders bonding with their instructor and their horses. It's all about the connection part. I think that's probably the best moments I see.

[Interviewer]

That's awesome.

[Leah]

When it connects. And I have a rider that's non verbal and I know there's something up in his mind and he's trying to talk, but I just watch his eyes and he'll pet the horse and I'm just hoping someday maybe he says a word.

[Interviewer]

I hope that for him too. Right. I mean, what an amazing moment to be a part of it. You know, if and when that does happen, you know, I'm hearing everything you're saying, and it's just. Your favorite moments are exactly what most of society is missing right now.

[Leah]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

And, you know, I want to highlight that as well, because we live in this very divided world right now. And I just truly feel for me, I'm more of a unifier than anything. I really want to be a special place where people can come and feel welcome no matter what. Matter what they look like, no matter what they believe, no matter what they do for a job. Just come here, listen to the show and, and, and walk away from it being a better person and try to leave a good ripple in the ocean. And you guys are doing that here. But I just couldn't help but to pick up that, that parallel, like, wow, that's kind of what's. That's what we're missing beyond that red, that red wall here right now. The red wall. You guys said that a couple times, you know, behind the red wall. Is that like a. Is that like a thing here?

[Leah]

People say that. They're like, we didn't know what was behind the red wall. Like, I never thought of it until people started saying, we're driving down, good luck. We didn't know what was behind the red wall. So I think that's how that came up.

[Interviewer]

That's really cool.

[Leah]

We didn't used to have it up there. It used to be open.

[Interviewer]

That is really cool.

[Leah]

Built it kind of.

[Interviewer]

That is pretty awesome.

[Michelle]

Shelter.

[Interviewer]

What about. What's your favorite moment been? Maybe I've asked you already, but like, you know, like, is there any other moments you want to share before?

[Michelle]

Yeah, I think that overall my favorite moment is seeing the once again growth of our participants. What I've witnessed our instructors do. Leah did a really cool activity this past week that I had not seen before, and it was a whiteboard activity.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Michelle]

And watching an adult, because a lot of the times, you know, when people think of our programs, they think that we serve children primarily, which we do, but we also serve adults. And there's adults that maybe have faced a stroke that are working really, really hard to be able to do everyday tasks or maybe read or to spell. And this past week I watched her work with this group and at the beginning of the lesson with the whiteboard, it had magnetic letters on it asking them to recall horses that were in the barn and then to be able to spell those names and to watch the progress from the start of the lesson, which was difficult towards the end where the words began to flow, the spelling became easier, just once again reiterated. So seeing the growth in that aspect or, you know, running into individuals who maybe have been in that rehabilitation group out in public that have approached me, we don't approach them that have, you know, once again said how impactful our programs were for them. Those are what's important. But getting to show up here every day is a dream. And I empower everyone, no matter where you are in the US or even internationally, that if you have a therapeutic riding center to check it out. You know, we're based in Naples, Florida. We serve Collier, Lee counties. And anyone who is able to drive here or we're able to take the minis to. But there is so many of our organizations that are accredited by the same body that would love to have, you know, volunteers or support or riders or even participants.

[Interviewer]

So that's so awesome. That's really cool.

[Leah]

We do summer camp. I don't know if they brought that up, but it's inclusive. So our riders can bring their brothers and sisters or their cousins or a friend. And this is their world. They know the horses, they know how to sit in the saddle where someone else may never have been. But what I love about camp is in kids. Adults need to learn from the kids. There's no judgment. Like, they don't ask me, why is that person, little kid, using a walker or why can't that little, you know, child talk? They accept each other as they are and they go off laughing and holding hands. And I've told the story before. A little boy came up to me. He was 5, and he said, miss Leah. And he looked at me and he goes, that boy keeps repeating me. And I told him to stop, and he won't stop. And so I was sitting down and I said, well, you have to think. His brain doesn't work like yours, so he doesn't know that that's bothering you. And he just thinks, you know, he's doing what he keeps repeating maybe to confirm what you're saying. And he just looked at me and he goes, okay. And he just ran off and played. It wasn't a big deal. Where someone else. Adults might be, like, you know, go on and on and on about it. It's the moment. And I think that's why our horses love summer camp, because all these kids that come to summer camp live in the moment, and horses live in the moment, and they don't expect anything out of the horses. And the horses just are chill. And you've seen them, their heads are down. They're so happy to have camp. So, yeah, there's a lot of lessons learned. And I really try to take everything I get from this place and take it home and be a better person myself. And there isn't a day that I wake up and dread coming to work.

[Interviewer]

That's amazing because, like, that's. That's heartwarming because there's so many people out there doing jobs that they wake up in the morning and they're. They dread going. They come home, they're upset at their husband or wife, and they take it out on the dog or the kids and, you know, just to. To share something in common with. With myself and everybody here that I. Yes, there's stressful moments, but I can never go home and say, like, wow, that really sucked. Like, today was a bad day. Every recording I have, I'm so grateful that I get to do this. So I think it's so important because people feed on that, right? People understand, like, wait a second, that person's happy with what they're doing in life. And I think that a lot of times that's really hard to find. And I think it's also because people are scared to chase their purpose and what they're really passionate about, because it'll be hard. They may think that they couldn't do it, but, I mean, me starting this was completely irrational. Completely, completely irrational to speak to that.

[Michelle]

Leah, do you know of any writer who was in our program that has Gone on to college or pursue a passion that started out of.

[Leah]

Yes, I do. I had a young lady who rode since she was 4, and her goal was to go trail riding independently. So we worked with her and worked with her. She got to where she could walk and trot the horse independently. I actually did end up taking her trail riding. We went three or four times, and she was so happy. She went off to college. She now has a boyfriend and is. I think she's an accountant. I think. And then we have another rider who did the same thing, rode for years, went off, got married, has two children and had a physical disability, but still was a great rider. It gives them a lot of confidence. It gives them a ton of confidence. And I don't think I give our parents a lot of credit because they don't hold their kids back. I don't believe. I think they really, you know, want them to excel. And sometimes that's really, really good. And sometimes their expectations are a little higher than they should be.

[Interviewer]

I get it.

[Leah]

Yeah. You know, but that's okay. We don't bust their dreams. We just keep going. But, yeah, so those are two writers that I. That come to mind that have gone on with it and have a great life.

[Interviewer]

That's impactful.

[Leah]

Yeah, that's impactful. It is.

[Interviewer]

Well, thank you guys for having me. This has been such an amazing conversation. Thank you both. Thank you. Michelle. Where'd she go?

[Christian]

She.

[Interviewer]

She took off and she. It was just. It was great to do something like this here with you guys today. And, you know, I tried something new today. You know what I mean? And I think that's just important for the audience to understand is, like, every day, try something new, try something small that scares you a little bit and see what the reaction that you're going to have is. Right? And I just. Man, I just can't say enough about this.

[Leah]

Your goals too high. Like, I see this with the groups we work with, because I'll have them set up an obstacle course and they'll put up a bar like this high. Will the horse jump over? And I'm like, I don't know. I know they won't, you know, But I'm like, I don't know. So then they come out and they're like, oh. And I said, well, when you get up, do you set your goals, like, obtainable or unattainable? You know, so start them out little. And isn't it satisfying to reach that goal and then go into one step further? I think people just expect too much of themselves each day. And I think that society puts that pressure on us.

[Interviewer]

That resonates with me. You know, I always believe in setting massive, lofty goals, but also just understand that there's different stages of those goals.

[Leah]

Right, right.

[Interviewer]

And it's like, okay, so if I'm at this stage, I need to be grateful for this stage, and I gotta find a solution or something that's gonna get me to that next stage.

[Leah]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

But never discounting where I'm at and understanding that once I get to the stage that I think is the ultimate stage, I'm going to sit there and be like, well, what now? And I think what I want the audience to really take home is in this last part is it's not about the goal. It's who you become in the process. And too many people are talking about it, but they're not living it. And you have to be able to say, okay, these moments, like the week I had, or maybe like you said, the writer had a bad week last week. That helped her get better this week. Right. It's building that resistance. It's building those skills. I just think it's super important for everybody to take home. For the audience is don't judge the stage you're at. Embrace it. Love that stage, because that's where you're built. That's where you're built. So thank you guys again.

[Leah]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

I appreciate you guys and. And you guys out there. Share this episode with someone you know. Love and trust. Naples Therapeutic Writing Center. If you're here in southwest Florida locally, check them out. If you have anybody in your family that may be able to use these services, check them out on the Internet. Come and see them. They're amazing people. And until next time, guys, stay determined.