Jana Kramer | How Adversity Builds Determination and Discipline

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Determined Society with Shawn French

Mindset, Adversity & Growth

Episode: Jana Kramer – Healing Trauma, Trusting Yourself & Saying No

Release Date: April 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This emotionally rich episode features actress, singer, and author Jana Kramer in a vulnerable conversation with host Shawn French. The discussion delves deep into Jana’s personal journey healing from trauma, how art mirrors and can transform real life, the struggles and triumphs of trusting oneself after abuse, the challenges of balancing motherhood with a creative career, and the power of saying “no.” Listeners will find real, unvarnished talk about adversity, family, relationships, therapy, and walking the path of resilience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From One Tree Hill to Powerful Storytelling

• Nostalgia & Character Evolution
  • Jana and Shawn reminisce about “One Tree Hill,” noting the complexity and realism of the show beyond typical teen dramas.
  • [03:32–05:15]
    • Shawn: “It parallels real life...it wasn’t just rainbows and sunshine, there’s death, betrayal, violence...it made it super relatable.”
    • Jana: “My character evolved...she’s got this void she’s trying to fill...I didn’t even watch the show while acting on it.”
• Collaboration with Austin Nichols
  • Their “One Tree Hill” connection led directly to starring together in “Gaslit by My Husband.”

2. “Gaslit by My Husband”: Art Imitating Life

• Choosing Roles with Purpose
  • [09:17–10:38]
  • Jana advocated to portray a story on domestic violence, connecting it profoundly with her own lived experience.
  • Jana: “I’d been in a domestic violence relationship, a few of them...it’s important to raise awareness. When I read [the script], I’m just like, yes. Sign me up.”
• Safe Spaces in Challenging Scenes
  • Jana chose Austin Nichols as her co-star for the trust he brings, especially vital during triggering scenes that mirrored her past trauma.

3. Revisiting Trauma Through Acting & Healing

• Real Emotion in Art
  • [12:01–13:16]
  • Jana describes filming a suffocating attack scene, how it resurrected buried trauma, and the catharsis found in a courtroom monologue.
  • Jana: “My body remembered it...I just freaked out...going outside to cry. The courtroom scene—being able to say what I needed—healed me even in that situation.”
  • Host validates her vulnerability, noting, “There’s a lot of women...that feel alone...you need to go watch this movie just to know there is a way out.”

4. Breaking Out of the Cycle: The Complexity of Leaving Abuse

• Why “Just Leaving” Isn’t Simple
  • [20:39–22:53]
  • Jana explains kids, financial dependence, and self-doubt as major obstacles for survivors of abuse.
  • Jana: “When your reality is twisted… you’ve doubted yourself for so long. You don’t leave because you feel you deserved it.”
• Struggling with Self-Worth Post-Abuse
  • “After my divorce, I was like, I’m worthless. I deserve to be hit. I deserve to… because that’s what I was told and believed. It takes years of healing.”

5. Therapy, Triggers, and Ongoing Growth

• Continuous Healing
  • [23:12–23:41]
  • “Nobody’s ever a hundred percent healed...Sometimes there’s going to be a trigger...It’s about walking through it with the tools you’ve learned.”
• Comparing Traumas
  • Jana [26:04]: “My therapist [says] never compare your traumas to traumas...how it affected you, that’s your trauma.”
• Moving Beyond People-Pleasing
  • Jana talks about learning to say “no,” even to promising career opportunities, to prioritize her children and self-care.

6. Motherhood vs. Ambition: Saying No

• Balancing Family and Work
  • [35:18–36:11, 37:18–40:23]
  • Jana details her choice to turn down a month-long shoot abroad—despite financial/career incentives—for her kids’ sake.
  • Jana: “It’s hard...I love acting and I love being a mom. I don’t want to miss summers.”
  • She then discusses facing judgment from her own manager: “Maybe you shouldn’t be an actor”—a remark she found deeply unfair and disrespectful.
  • Handling Disrespect:
    • Jana uses journaling and non-reactive responses, supported and encouraged by her husband and therapist.
    • [43:46] “My therapist calls me scrappy...I get things done.”

7. Trusting Yourself & Gut Instincts

• Learning to Listen Inward
  • [54:47–55:58]
  • Jana’s “hell yes or hell no” approach guides her acceptance of opportunities.
  • Jana: “My first gut instinct was no, not to do it...to lean into that and trust yourself.”
  • Shawn: “For the longest time I didn’t trust myself...what are the things you did to shift that?”
• Therapeutic Exercises
  • The Backpack & Rocks Exercise
    • [56:18–58:55] Jana describes writing negative beliefs on rocks, carrying them in a backpack, and ceremonially discarding them—a pivotal healing moment.
  • Writing and Burning Letters, Eulogies for Relationships
    • Simple but powerful rituals to release pain.

8. Relationships & Communication (With Partners and Public)

• Repair, Not Perfection
  • [65:25–66:36, 69:00–70:37]
  • Jana stresses the importance of “repair” after arguments as the foundation for strong marriages.
  • “If you can repair—your marriage will be well, basically.”
• Navigating Criticism and the Public Eye
  • [79:00–84:44]
  • Jana openly discusses the sting of internet and press criticism, people “finding a way to bring her down,” and striving for authenticity over approval.
  • Shawn: “Your only flaw as a friend is you haven’t followed me back on Instagram yet.” (light-hearted banter)
  • Jana: “I want them to understand, to like me...But sometimes, you just have to be yourself and let it go.”

9. The Power of Art & Representation

• Why Storytelling Matters
  • Sharing stories of trauma aids others in feeling seen, validated, and less alone.
  • Jana: “I’ve gotten messages from people saying their therapist recommended the movie...to be validated is freeing.”

10. Manifesting, Moving Forward, and “What’s Next”

• Future Goals
  • Both reflect on dreams beyond their current platforms—Jana expressing her desire to return to TV dramas, Shawn aspiring to meaningful television projects.
  • The power of visualization, intention, and resilience is encouraged for all listeners.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trauma Reenactment:
  • “My body remembered it...I just freaked out...But being able to have that power moment and to say what I needed to say, it healed me—even in that situation.” – Jana [12:01]
• On Advocacy and Awareness:
  • “I really want to do a movie around domestic violence, because I’ve been in a domestic violence relationship, a few of them. So it’s just really important to me to raise awareness.” – Jana [09:19]
• On Trusting Yourself:
  • “My gut says no...I understand what you’re saying, but it’s a pass.” – Jana [52:24]
• On Saying No:
  • “If it’s not a hell yes, it’s a hell no.” – Jana [54:54]
• On Motherhood vs. Ambition:
  • “I don’t want to miss the summers...How many summers do you get with your kids, and then it’s done.” – Jana [35:35]
• On Healing:
  • “Nobody’s ever 100% healed. If you think you are, you’re not paying attention.” – Jana [23:26]
• On Relatability of Stories:
  • “Sometimes to be able to see it is easier to go, ‘that has happened to me.’ And wait, I’m not crazy. Sometimes to have that validation is really freeing for people.” – Jana [17:25]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:32] – One Tree Hill memories, character talk
• [09:17] – Choosing “Gaslit by My Husband” and connection to real-life abuse
• [12:01] – Filming traumatic scenes and how acting mirrored her healing journey
• [20:39] – Why it’s so hard to leave abusive relationships
• [23:12] – Healing isn’t linear or total
• [35:35] – The struggle and guilt of saying no to work for family
• [43:46] – Handling disrespect and boundaries with industry professionals
• [54:54] – “If it’s not a hell yes, it’s a hell no.”
• [56:18] – Therapeutic rituals for releasing trauma
• [65:25, 69:00] – Communication, repair, and vulnerability in relationships
• [79:00] – Vulnerability online, seeking approval, and authenticity
• [86:43] – Full circle: the meaning behind music and motherhood in her movie

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Tone & Language

• Authentic and Heartfelt: Jana’s vulnerability invites empathy and reflection; laughter and sincerity are woven throughout, balancing heaviness with warmth.
• Conversational and Relatable: Shawn and Jana engage in back-and-forth storytelling that is honest, approachable, and often humorous—even when tackling tough subjects.
• Empowering and Hopeful: Despite discussing difficult themes, both speakers convey messages of hope, resilience, and self-acceptance.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Matters

If you or someone you know is grappling with past trauma, doubting their worth, or navigating the tension between self-care and ambition, this episode delivers validation, companionship, and practical wisdom. Jana’s openness about healing, boundaries, and self-trust serves as a blueprint for anyone seeking to grow after adversity—offering the reminder: You’re not alone, healing is ongoing, and sometimes the most powerful answer is “no.”

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Further Resources

• Film: “Gaslit by My Husband” (Netflix)
• Jana’s Podcast: “Whine Down with Jana Kramer”
• Crisis Resources: If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, visit the National Domestic Violence Hotline at thehotline.org or call 1−800−799−7233.

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End of Summary

Transcript

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[Jana Kramer]

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[Jana Kramer]

me, he was on top of me where I couldn't breathe. And there was a scene where Austin was attacking me and he put the pillow over my head and I just like, freaked out. He's like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, no, no, no. I'm like, yeah, I was just. But I ended up going out and crying because I was just. It was too. It felt too real. When we went to the preliminary hearing or whatever it was, my abuser was in court, but I never got to say anything to him. And so that scene where I'm speaking to Austin in it, being able to have that power moment and to. To say what I needed to say, it healed me even in that situation.

[Shopify Ad Voice]

What's up, everybody?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

We're back here again at Nashville Creative Spaces, at Rory Vaden's Place Brand Builders. I have with me today an amazing human being, someone who has really pushed through things and has been very successful in her careers. Multifaceted talent. I have Jana Kramer with Me, I've been following her career for a lot of years, and it's just great to sit down with her and chat a little bit. So, Jana, welcome to the show.

[Jana Kramer]

Thank you so much for having me. I mean, you just called out Alex Dupre, and that made me laugh. Did you actually watch the show?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Did I watch One Tree Hill.

[Jana Kramer]

It's so fun.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Do you want to go there with me? I. Okay, yes. Multiple times. All the way through.

[Jana Kramer]

Multiple times.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Obsessed.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, there's so many. Because I. I never watched any of the seasons before. I mean, I only watched a couple episodes just to kind of learn. But when I auditioned, but then it was even afterwards, I only watched a couple episodes, but I was like, you know what? I want to. I want to rewatch. I want to see what. Because we go to these conventions and they're just talk about the show, and I'm like, I want to. I want to watch what the. What the hype is all about and see the show and understand it a bit. Because I didn't even know that the two were brothers for, like, the longest time. Even when I was on the show, I was like, oh, Chad Michaels. Murray's. Was that. Was your brother on the show? Like, it was just. I should have known so much. I should have done a little bit more studying. But I went to start, and I'm like, there is way too many seasons and episodes. Yeah, like 44 episodes. Like a season.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. I think, like, yeah, it's like something like 22 to 25.

[Jana Kramer]

And that's a lot.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It's a lot. But, no, it's one of my favorite shows. Wow. I've watched it multiple times all the way through, and in fact, I keep telling my wife, I'm like, can we do this over again? Can we watch it?

[Jana Kramer]

That's how I am with Sons of Anarchy.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Oh, really?

[Jana Kramer]

I am obsessed with Sons of Anarchy,

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

so I'm a big One Tree Hill guy.

[Jana Kramer]

That's so funny. What did you love about it?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I loved the. The diversity of feelings throughout the whole thing. It wasn't just rainbows and sunshine. Let's do this show about this. These high school people, and they're going to fall in love and everything's going to be peachy. There's death, there's violence, there's, you know, betrayal.

[Jana Kramer]

School shooting or school bombing, too, or something.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, there was no school shooting things that. And then, you know, the dad, you know, they lit him on fire and like, like, so it's. It's very dark at times. Oh. Then the Car crash.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, yeah, I do know about that.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, and, you know, so it's like when you see all these things, it really pulls you in. It's like, yo, any of this stuff can happen at any given time to anybody, and it made it super relatable.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So, yeah, that's why I loved it.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay. How much did you hate my character when I came in?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I, I. There is a. Yeah, it's all authentic reactions here. No, I didn't like it. I didn't like their character at the

[Jana Kramer]

beginning, but I didn't either.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, I was like, dude, Julian's taken, bro. Like, what's going on? But then you can.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, and he saw Julian then. A gaslit.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's what. Dude.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay. Got it, got it, got it, got it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yes.

[Jana Kramer]

All right.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So, yeah, so it's. Your character evolved.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, and I think that's what the great part about your character, but not at the beginning. I'm like, man, this, this poor girl, man. It wasn't a dislike, but it was like, she's got this void she's trying to fill right now and. But you were a genius in it.

[Jana Kramer]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, you're good. You're great in everything.

[Jana Kramer]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Truly. Truly. So, you know, that show, to me, that's. I don't know. I just, I just feel like it just. It parallels real life.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. I should, I should maybe get my husband. We should. We should sit down and actually do it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Watch it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Oh, 100%. I think I know more about One Tree Hill than you do.

[Jana Kramer]

Yo. 100%. 1,000%.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But it's funny because, like, But I can relate as well because I, I shoot something, I do it, it goes off. People love it. I don't watch it back.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, I, I, I did Jay Leno last June. I didn't watch that show.

[Jana Kramer]

Why not? I don't know. You should. That's a big deal. Jay Leno's big deal.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, it was a big deal. It was fun. You know, Tony was last week. That was fun.

[Jana Kramer]

I mean, incredible. He's a scandal. I mean, I loved that show. Loved.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's another. That's another one. From start to finish, I think five times.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, I could do that one.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I fell asleep. I, I, I started watching last night. I started, I watched it again a little bit, but then I turned on A Country Christmas romance.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, gosh.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And, and, and I fell asleep. Not because it was boring, because it was late. It was late. I needed my beauty sleep. But it was just like, you know, because my buddy Matthew Headen, he's like, where do you go? You don't know. A very close friend of mine. He goes, what are you doing right now? I was like, well, I'm getting ready to go to Nashville. I was like. He's like, what do you got? I was like, bob, Janet Kramer. He goes, dude, would you please tell her I loved A Country Christmas Romance? I'm like, are you serious? He goes, absolutely. She was fantastic. But no, it was just like a. I started watching it. It was actually pretty funny, like, the way it evolved.

[Jana Kramer]

But I was pregnant with my son in that.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Really?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, my son. My. My third son, Roman. And the two year old. The two year old, yeah, he's now two. But was. Was on Lifetime and then Netflix acquired it last year, so that's when it charted. It was like, wow, this is crazy. But, yeah, I was very pregnant in that.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No way.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. A lot of flowy tops. And then when we're on the Hay Bell having that little sex scene. Sorry, I didn't.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I didn't. Yeah, watch that part. Time stamp it.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, but you ruined it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I thought Colby was still giving you the cold shoulder.

[Jana Kramer]

No, he didn't.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Damn it.

[Jana Kramer]

But it was. It was so uncomfortable because I'm, like, trying to, like, hide the belly, like in that shot.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I spent years trying to hide my belly. It never worked.

[Jana Kramer]

It always showed.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It always showed. Can't hide it. But no. So, you know, tell your friend I said, thank you. I will, absolutely. But it was crazy how we connected.

[Jana Kramer]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Right. And because I watch your new movie on Netflix, Gaslit by My Husband, and I'm like, that's an interesting title. I go, wait, is that Janet Kramer? I'm going to watch it. And then, you know your. Your co star, Austin Nichols. Austin Nichols, also from One Tree.

[Jana Kramer]

I'm like Julian Baker from One Tree Hill.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I'm like, I am 1 billion percent watching this. It was so good. And I. And I love that it was a true story. And the movie absolutely blow up. Blew up.

[Jana Kramer]

It was crazy.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And. And it was crazy to me because I didn't think you're going to be my message. I had no. I had no idea.

[Jana Kramer]

I read my DMs.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's so crazy. I wish more people were like that in the industry, you know, because there's a lot of relationships and friendships that you can make and, you know, for the context, for the audience. Like, that was what, maybe two weeks ago.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Now you're here.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And now. Now we're here. We're in Nashville. We're hanging out, you know, so a phenomenal movie. What led you to. To, you know, really go for that role? And you executed it perfectly.

[Jana Kramer]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It was insane.

[Jana Kramer]

I had done a couple movies with Lifetime before that, and when I was talking to the president and of the senior execs there, they said, you know, what kind of movies do you want to do? Because at that time, I'd only really done Christmas movies and then one just kind of thriller. And I said, you know, I really want to do a movie around domestic violence, because I've been in a domestic violence relationship, a few of them. And so it's just really important to me to raise awareness in that area. And they said, you know, we just got a script that just came to our desk that might be pretty perfect for you. Wow. And it was Morgan's story. When I read it, I'm just like, yes. Like, sign me up. This is exactly what I want to do. And when we talked about who to have as the husband, I brought up Austin because I. He's my favorite scene partner that I worked with on Tree Hill, but also just in movies, too, like, he's. So I felt. Felt really safe with Austin, and I knew that to take on a role like that role, I needed someone to feel safe with, like, with the attack scene and just going through things that are going to bring up a lot of triggers and trauma from my past to have someone that. And there was some. There was an incident on set that happened, and if it wasn't Austin, like, I would have been harder for me to really. To manage. So.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Wow, that's amazing.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. So it was. And, you know, the Morgan story being a true story, too, is just crazy. I mean, I. I just spoke to Morgan as well, congratulating her on, you know, the movie doing so well and her helping people and. Because that's really. At the end of the day. Yes. Would. Did we wanted to chart on Netflix? Sure. Because that. That's helpful, you know, for maybe future projects. But it was more to, you know, have people go, okay, I don't feel alone in this situation, and I feel seen and. Or. Or that's happening to me, and I need to get out.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, it's interesting because, you know, the overall goal for you guys wasn't charting. It was awareness. Like, here's her story. You're not alone. And I think when you create art like that, with that intention, it does chart, right? It does. You do get the bells and whistles, you know, But I think it's very interesting. And, you know, I. I think it's also admirable that. Because I didn't. You know, I stay out of the tabloids. I don't.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I don't know all those stories, but, you know, for you to do that when you had that multiple times in your life, I think, you know, that that's such an amazing quality. But also, that's what. It made it so good. Like, it looked. There was a time where I'm watching a movie. I'm like, oh, my God. Jana's just getting her butt kicked.

[Avocado Mattress Ad Voice 1]

Right?

[Jana Kramer]

I'm like, oh, no, no.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It's a movie.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

This isn't. This isn't actually happening. Like, it was that good.

[Jana Kramer]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yes.

[Jana Kramer]

I mean, it was. It was tough. The. The attack scene was one of my first abusers. When he was attacking me, he was on top of me where I couldn't breathe, and there was a scene where Austin was attacking me, and he put the pillow over my head, and it was just. It brought me right back to, you know, being that girl, 21, with, you know, feeling like she's about to die. And, I mean, I just. My body remembered it, and I just, like, freaked out and, like, push him off. He's like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, no, no, no. I'm like, yeah, I was just. But I ended up going out and crying because I was just. It was too. It felt too real to that. And then the courtroom scene when we went to the preliminary hearing or whatever it was, I never got to. He was my abuser, was in court, but I never got to say anything to him. And so that scene where I'm speaking to Austin in it, that was. I didn't know that I needed that moment to. Because I've done so much healing work from that moment. But being able to have that power moment and to. To say what I needed to say, it was. It healed me, even in that situation, and that's why the emotions were so raw in it, because it was like, I got to say that to my abuser and then close the door with

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

it because he saw it.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I'm gonna tell you right now, every one of them probably saw it.

[Jana Kramer]

Well, he didn't say it because it's. It's a sad story, but he. Well, he ended up committing suicide, so.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Wow.

[Jana Kramer]

When he got out of prison.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Wow. Wow. That is. That is pretty sad.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But, you know, but. But, you know, for. For the sake of this conversation, you know, you being on that witness stand, it's this is what I love about acting. You know, in art, I could see your emotion. I was like, wow, this is a really good job. And now come to find out it's because you had multiple experiences with this and there's a lot of women out there, like you said, that are going through this right now that feel alone. You need to go watch this movie just to know that there is a way out, you know, it was so compelling. And the thing that I really love too is that you're connecting with Morgan like you're, you're so real. And that's one of the things I enjoy about you because when I sent it, when I sent the message, this is back to the message and I got a message back and I looked at my mom because I was driving in my truck with her. I was like, you should wrote back. I was like, it's probably her va.

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[Jana Kramer]

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[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Sounds like.

[Jana Kramer]

What's that?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like a virtual assistant.

[Jana Kramer]

I don't have an assistant.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I know. Like somebody. Somebody. So do I. I really wish I wasn't cheap.

[Jana Kramer]

That's my problem.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Dude, you and me both. I mean, I think at this point I could probably afford to have somebody like in my in My account, like, really engaging for me. But right now, I don't.

[Jana Kramer]

I don't want.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I don't want to give anybody the keys to that. I was just like. Because then you can tell it's not me.

[Jana Kramer]

Right?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So I was like, hold on a second. Let me. Let me. Let me see if it's really her. And then you're sending me voice memos

[Jana Kramer]

because you're out of walk or running.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You were running with your husband and. But no, it's just. It's. It's really, to me that just. It's a part of your personality to be, you know, to communicate and to. Of course, you can't get back to everybody, because that's.

[Jana Kramer]

Right.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That'd be nuts. But, you know, to see you in your. In your conversations with Morgan on your stories is really cool because, you know, she's super excited, and you're super grateful, and you're proud of her, and she's proud of you. It was like this huge collaboration going on. Right. And she wasn't on camera with you.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Nuts.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. And I'm just, you know, I. That's her story, you know, but it is so many other women's stories, too. Maybe not exactly the same, but, you know, someone who has been. I've just gotten so many messages from people saying, like, hey, like, my therapist recommended me the movie, and I just. I feel. I don't feel crazy or I feel so seen. And that's. That is such the win with all of this.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

How. How does that feel? Like, hey, my therapist recommended this movie.

[Jana Kramer]

I know, I know. I mean, it feels. It feels great. Even my therapist was like, you know, I've already told a few people to watch it, but just to know again that it's really hard when you're in those relationships. I mean, we've all. I think we've all. Hopefully not everybody, but we've been in those situations where we're like, am I crazy? Like, this is. It's when you have to doubt your reality. And I know that so many people have dealt with that. So sometimes to be able to see it is easier to go, oh, okay, that has happened to me. And wait, I'm not crazy. And sometimes to have that validation is really freeing for people. I know it is for me, because so many times I'd be like, oh, well, I. I must have said it. Or I. I guess I did say it that way, because that's their way of manipulating you into doubting your reality. And when you have to doubt your reality, that's A problem.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It's so crazy you say that, because it's a perfect example of the scene in the kitchen, because I watched it then I'm like, wow, she. She smacked the hell out of him. But that's what he made your character believe. And then later on it shows that it was completely the opposite. And that's gaslighting at its finest.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And it happens in these types of relationships, you know, and to your point where that thought of, am I going crazy? Is this really happening? You know, women really start to go like, yeah, this is. I just. I guess I just deserve this. And throw your hands up. This is. This is where I'm at. And, you know, it was such a treat, you know, my wife couldn't watch the attack scene, you know, and it was like one of those things where that specific scene. And I don't want to bring out those, you know, those feelings, but it was even for me. And I Like, I. I don't mind things like that. Watching it, that was a really hard scene to watch. I couldn't even imagine having to go through it and acting through it. It.

[Jana Kramer]

That's.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's a lot.

[Jana Kramer]

It was tough. I mean, and that was, again, was the moment, like, when I felt that him on top of me. And I just, you know, the director is like, she saw. She's like, I saw the fear in your eyes and then that your body remembering it. And I just had to go outside and just cry it out. And then just like my body was shaking because. And. And I. I remember calling my therapist and going, all right, like, this is. This happened. And it just planting my feet and going, this is not happening to you right now. This is just your body remembering something that you went through and kind of going through those emotions. But, yeah, I mean, that It. It's wild because even before I took this movie, I told my therapist, I said, I don't know. I'm like, this is so many years ago that this happened. So I'm like, what if I have no emotion? What if I've done so much work that I can't even. Or I. And then if I don't, if I do have emotion or if not, then what if I have to too much emotion and then I can't get rid of it too? So it was. It was difficult. But again, this. The reason I kept going back to the reason why I wanted to tell the story. It's the reason why I continue trying to advocate for DV victims, even the ones that are wrongfully accused and serving time in jail for violent resistance. So that's another thing where I'm trying to get more understanding because there's just. People don't understand, well, why didn't she just leave? Or why, you know, there's, it's. There's so much context that people don't understand what happens to victims in those situations.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, and that's, that's a good point because, like, why don't you just leave? Right? Like, walk us. Walk the audience through that. And the reason why I want you to do that is because there's somebody listening right now that's going through this.

[Jana Kramer]

Well, it's hard. I mean, you have kids. I mean, there's the amount of times that people have gone into my DMs, which is one of the reasons why I read them, because sometimes I do respond when I can to, you know, some people that need help. And it's. It's. The number one thing is when you have kids, it's really hard to walk away. And I know that from, you know, leaving my. My last marriage was excruciating. There's things that I would have never stayed if I didn't have kids. But again, when your reality is twisted and you've been in abusive relationships before and you've had that emotional and physical trauma, you doubt so much of your own beliefs. Like, post divorce and post. A lot of my traumatic healing was all about trusting myself. And that's, to this day, something I always have to go back to. It's like, no, I know. And I have to trust myself. But that's really hard when you've doubted yourself for so long because someone else told you how wrong and crazy you were for having certain beliefs. So you know so many things when you're in those relationships, things get turned around on you. So then you don't leave because you're like, well, I. I did tell him to leave, or I did, you know, I. So I deserved that, you know, and you go to that I deserved place, and it's just. You don't deserve it. You don't deserve the emotional, physical, any abuse whatsoever. And unfortunately, in those situations, the. The trauma of someone consistently feeding those negative beliefs into your brain, you believe it. I mean, after my divorce, I was like, I'm worthless. I don't deserve anything. I deserve to be hit. I deserve to be to. Because that's what I was told and believed. And it takes years of healing and positive words to come in, but there's still times when I'm like, no.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So you still Struggle with it a little.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, sure. I mean, there's still times when I'm like, you know, even in my industry now, where it's. I have this scarcity mindset, where I'm like, I had to say yes to everything, you know? But I'm like, no, but I. I don't now. And I, I. And it's still scary to trust yourself because that intuition. I'm. I. You shouldn't trust yourself.

[Shopify Ad Voice]

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[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You're being cond. You've already been conditioned.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Right. Your limbic system's like, no, no, I'm supposed to be in turbulence right now.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I don't deserve this.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Right.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, I gotta be here. But I mean, that. That. That's crazy because you've done so much healing. You talk about it, but there's always that, you know, it likes to peek its head out a little bit.

[Jana Kramer]

Sure.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

At times. And I think that people need to be ready for it, because if you're not, you think you're bulletproof.

[Jana Kramer]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You're not bulletproof.

[Jana Kramer]

Not bulletproof, no.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, there's things that come up all the time, you know, for me and for everybody.

[Jana Kramer]

That's life, too. We all have our stuff that comes back, and that's what people like, oh, she's clearly not healed. And I'm like, nobody's ever 100 perfectly healed. Like, I used to get that comment all the time. Like, why are you still talking about it? Shut up. You're not. Like, you should be healed by now. It's like, that is the most ridiculous being on, dude. Yeah. Like.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like you should be.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. I'm not in my corner crying all day, but, yes, sometimes there's going to be a trigger that might come up. And what I have to remember is the things I learned from my therapist going, what is the truth? What is. What do you know to be true right now? How do you feel in your. Like, those are the things you have to walk through.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. When people come at you and say, you know, you're. You're. Why are you still talking about. You're oversharing? It's done. You should be healed. Like, those are unhealed humans.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And those are the ones that are sitting behind a keyboard and be like, how can I make Jana miserable right now? Or whomever. Because I am unhealed and I am miserable in my life. So let me fight back, because it's the only way that I feel good.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's what those people are.

[Jana Kramer]

What were you saying, though? I cut you off. I'm Sorry, I don't know about your stuff coming up.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Oh. Oh, you. Oh.

[Jana Kramer]

What's the thing that comes up for you?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Just little things. Like, I haven't said this one yet.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Okay. And my wife's gonna laugh. Little small thing. Last night, we were laying there, Mia sleeping, and we were holding hands. Yeah, we're doing all that. Yeah. Before I turn on the tv. And then she touched my face. I hate my face being touched.

[Jana Kramer]

Really? Is that from a certain thing that happens?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Okay, I'm gonna go there. Okay, I'm gonna go there. She's the only one that can touch my face. And my kids can touch my face. Depending on how rough they're being, if they're being gentle, I'm like, I'm cool. But if they're like, I'm like, get out of my space. Get the out.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No. So the dad that raised me is not my biological father.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I don't see it that way because, you know, he's the one that raised me. It's my dad, but my biological father. At one point, I remember, I think I might have been me as age. I was maybe around six or seven. And I have these moles here, you know, like, right on my nose. Like, there's only one.

[Jana Kramer]

Barely see them. Oh, you took one off?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Nope.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

He held me down and like. Like, popped it like it was, you know, like, you know, like it was like a zit or something. So you got to get those off your face. And so like, now when people. This is like a no fly zone, you know? But. But that stuff comes up. Like, then I have to realize, like, wait, it's my wife. I'm safe. Like, it's my kids. I'm safe. So last time when she went like this, I'm like, oh, no, I let her do this. Like, and that's. And. And again, like, it's nothing compared to what Morgan Or. Or you.

[Jana Kramer]

No, but here, okay, this one thing. My therapist never compare, okay, your traumas to traumas. Because I'd be like, well, gosh, I mean, he choked me, but someone didn't. He didn't stab me. Like, that one girl stabbed that. That guy. That guy stabbed.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

You know, so it's like you can't compare. Like, what. How it affected you. That's your trauma, and that's your stuff that hurts you. It doesn't. Doesn't make any of ours less. Well, thank. More than yours. Yeah, less than mine.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But that was, like, the little things that come up, right? And, you know, for you, it Was that scene. And for multiple people, you know, these things flare up.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And we. And we don't know why, because, you know, a lot of times, you know, even to the dumb comment of, you should be healed by now, like, no, like, you are probably 98 healed over that. But, like, there's still that 2% that's going to come out and try to play a little bit and test you.

[Jana Kramer]

Within me. It's within us, you know, we. You have that, I don't know, possible insecurity of that because of him. You know, like, that's. It's in you.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. It's wild. You know, and just even think, like, I can never do this. One of my children.

[Jana Kramer]

Right. Well, that's what's going to make you the better parent. Not saying that they weren't a good baron, but that's not great. Yeah, I mean.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I mean, I don't know. I mean, I saw him probably four times in my life, so.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But no, you know, like. But I also think that. And haven't said this before, but, like, I'm gonna say it. Like, damn, what are you bringing out of me? You know, he. He had two kids after me, and he's been there their whole lives. And I'm actually connected with him on Instagram and not.

[Jana Kramer]

Is there a jealousy with the kids because they had the father? Maybe you didn't have.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I think at beginning, I was like

[Jana Kramer]

that with my sisters.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. Like, why them?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, but I mean, that was, you know, probably 17 years ago when I found out about it.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Because I. I found him before I moved to Florida. I drove to Modesto, California, because I'm from out in California. I just showed up his house. So what's up? He's like, do I know you? You look familiar. I'm like, oh, well, I'm your son, so, I mean, I hope you'd recognize me. He's like, are you here to. Are you here to beat my ass? I was like, for a lot of years, I thought that's why I would show up. But no, I just want to talk. And so, like, at the beginning, I'm like, but why? And you know what I realized is that him and my mom's dynamic, that was their deal. And, you know, they split up, and it is what it is. And, you know, now there's no. I don't feel that. Any jealousy towards them at all. The beginning I did, but now it's just like, we check in every once in a while. Like, Jamie's my app Brother go, hey, man. How you doing? Yeah, you know, Michaela was my other. Is the other sibling, right. That we share blood and I. We're connected on Instagram, but we've never spoken. We've never. Hi. How are you? Good to connect with you. But, you know, those were times that for a while, I had this fear of. Abandonment.

[Jana Kramer]

I was gonna say abandonment.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. Yeah. And so the root of that was, is no matter what relationship I was in, I did my damnedest to destroy it because I didn't think I was worthy of it. Oh, you're gonna abandon me too? So I was like, well, let me get this out of the way so then I'm not hurt.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. So I would either do that or I would do. I'd be so codependent that I didn't want them to leave, so I would just stay and do whatever, you know, just been like, please don't leave me.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, you know, I'm right here.

[Jana Kramer]

Hi.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, that's so funny. I dated this girl in college that we were on the tail end. I was like, okay, I need to. I need to cut this out.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And I went to school one day, and then I went to baseball practice. All right. And I got. And. And I went to lsu. So our schedules were demanding. Like, I wouldn't get home at. Until 6:00pm oh, wow. Like, maybe. What am I talking about? I'd be done at the field at 6pm Go get food, eat, come home. She was still there. So, like, I. I. You know. And then she kicked down my door one night. Literally exploded. It was the most impressive thing ever. Dancers are strong. Dancers are very strong.

[Jana Kramer]

Strong quads.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, very. Just, like, kick that thing in. But, like, all this stuff makes sense, right? Because it's. It wasn't her. It was just something that she was unhealed from, you know? And I don't know, as you get older, you start to understand more of. Of where people are coming from.

[Jana Kramer]

Of course. And that's what. Those are the conversations that I love, too. And I see it, you know, when Even conversations with my husband, it's like, okay, I see how. Why he is the way he is because of maybe his family, you know, all the. The family dynamics, too, and then how that's ingrained in people. And I think it's just a. You know, it's as. As long as people are doing their work, I think that's a beautiful thing. And I think that is if you want to keep learning and growing and evolving. That's because we all evolve, and we all. But but if you want to be curious about why you are the way you are and to to learn, learn and do better, I think that's a good quality.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And there's so much adversity baked into everything, right? Like everything that you've gone through. You know, we talked about Morgan's story like the the amount of determination and resilience that you have to have to not just come out of that situation, but to face it in therapy is another level of resilience. Like, that's hard.

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[Jana Kramer]

yeah, therapy is some of the most grueling, hardest work ever. But it's so rewarding too when you get to the other side of it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

And even then, what? What does the other side look like, it's happier, but it's still, there's still little, little trails.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Well, your other side looks really nice.

[Jana Kramer]

Thanks.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, you guys at the lake house.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, I'm so excited.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Right? I know. I see it.

[Jana Kramer]

Just want to retire there.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I, I, I can see it. You have the lake house. You guys are this, this amazing home. Talk to me about this chapter now.

[Jana Kramer]

You know, it's so, it's so beautiful, and it's still something. Where I told my husband the other day, I'm like, I, I'm, I'm almost waiting for the, like a, the shoe to drop. Like, it's. Yeah, it's too good, you know?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Isn't it?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. And it's. He's like, no, he's like, you've, you've worked really hard. Like, you should just enjoy this moment. I said, no, I am. I'm thoroughly enjoying it, and I'm scared that there's something bad coming around the corner.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

What do you think? Like, when I don't even know, like,

[Jana Kramer]

I'm sick or I'm ill, I'm gonna get it, you know, because it's like, oh, that's good. You know what I mean? Like. Yeah, because I've checked. I'm checking off things that have been. You know, I got my dream car. We got a lake house. We got, you know, it's like, things are good. My kids are healthy, and, And I know life isn't perfect, and there's struggles, and so I'm like, God, something bad's gonna. Because that's what I'm. I'm always accustomed to the shoe dropping somewhere.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, I know. I, I can relate. I was asking because I'm also that way.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, I'm also like, what, this. It's too calm right now.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, what's up?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

What the heck is going on? And I think that, you know, bad things are always going to happen for sure. You know, hopefully they're not too catastrophic.

[Jana Kramer]

Right.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, you know, getting an illness or something like that. Those are always, like, my biggest fears.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Same. My kid, it's like, my kids, like, I want to be. It's all I want to be around for my kids, and then I want my kids to be healthy and happy. Like, if that is, like, that is all I pray for every single night, like, truly. And it's, it's hard because I'm in. My biggest struggle at the moment is balancing my work and my family life.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

You know, I just said no to a movie last night, and I woke up this morning, and I've been so emotional about it because I'm like, it's so hard because I'm like, you know, I love what I do. I love being an actress. And. And I didn't want to go away for a month to the Dominican Republic and miss a whole baseball season, a whole, whole, whole softball season. But I'm like, ah. You know, like, this is the hardest thing because, again, I love acting and I love being a mom. And I love being a mom. So I'm like, I don't want to miss the summers. Like, how many summers do you get with your kids? And then it's done.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

18.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And then they're all.

[Jana Kramer]

And my years are, you know, going. Yeah, shorter and shorter. So I'm just like, I don't want to be away for a month.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, that. That's. You know, it's so funny because there was conversations about me going on tour and doing some public speaking. I was like, well, do I get to go home? Like, oh, yeah, you can go home. I'm like, okay, because, you know, I have children. I have a wife. Like, I don't. There's no way in hell I could be gone for two straight months.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, I would be the worst public speaker on the planet by week freaking two, dude. Like, I am. My company's empty.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

My tribe's not here. Like, I'm uncomfortable. This is not good for me emotionally. You know, I do want to share with the audience because, you know, you said, you know, I'm. You know, I passed up this movie. I didn't want to go to Dominican Republic, you know, for a month and miss baseball season. Like, I need the. I need the audience to know that's the type of person you truly are, and I'm going to bring it that point home right here. When we started talking about two weeks ago, I was like, hey, you know, are you going to be around the next couple weeks? And you said, no, you tell them what you said.

[Jana Kramer]

Do you remember it was derby day. Well, I was supposed to go to go to Los Angeles for the Iheart awards and take other couple meetings. And I realized that the flight wasn't going to get me home in time to catch my daughter's derby day. So I said, jolie, hey, sorry, mommy's not going to be able to see your derby day. And she was just like, oh, okay. No, it's fine. Fine. And because of what I do in the work that I do, I'm like, I have to be very intentional. The things that I say yes to. And the things that I. Because they know, like, when I go, it's like, mommy has to go. Like, mommy needs to go film this movie and. And work. Because I love what I do. I think it's really important for them to see that too. But you also have to say no to things that, like. And I just was like, Derby Day is more important than going to la.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So that's my whole point. Yeah, that's badass. Like, that. That I respect. You know, there was a red carpet event last weekend in Miami, and I did the same thing.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, Getty was going to be there. It was like, I've never had a Getty image.

[Jana Kramer]

Miami's fun too.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, dude, I'm just some dude. Like, I've never had a Getty image. Like, I gotta go to this thing.

[Jana Kramer]

Gotta get a Getty.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Gotta. Gotta get a Get. Gotta get a Getty. But, you know, I said to my. My good friend Matt, who's my publicist, I said, hey, man, would you be totally pissed off at me if I didn't go? He's like, yeah, I want you there. I'm like, but no, for real. For real.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, no. Like, no. Like, he's like, no. What's up? I'm like, I feel like I need to be home with my family. You know, I was in New York this week. You know, Nashville next week. My wife's behind the camera. You can't see her. Smoke show. Hey, baby.

[Jana Kramer]

Smoke show. And she speaks.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Oh, yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Different language.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I know. That's my favorite.

[Jana Kramer]

I'm like, oh, she gets mad at you.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Does she just go, well, that's the thing, though. Like, if she's mad at me, I prefer her to speak to me in Spanish because it's a turn on.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

If she speaks to me in English, I'm like, oh, no, I know you're pissed. I don't like these words.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Say some things that I don't understand completely. And I'm good. But I just said, you know, I'm. I'm. This is a good opportunity. There's some massive people in the room. You know, it was at the 1 Hotel in Miami, red carpet, everything. Wow. And I was just like,

[Jana Kramer]

no, good for you.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I need to be home. I need to be home. And we had a pretty good weekend.

[Jana Kramer]

Good.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That was good. It was good.

[Jana Kramer]

It's good.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And I didn't regret my decision.

[Jana Kramer]

Good. See? Yeah, that's great. And I woke up slightly regretting my decision this morning. But I do think that there is I've worked really hard, and it's nice to get to a place where I can say no to things, but it's hard to say no to things. Cause I still have a very. I have a scarcity mindset, too, with money. But at the same time, there is an amount that I would be okay with leaving my kids for a little bit. It just is like, but, you know, what's your number? I'm not gonna say it, but I'm just. But, like, if they, you know, it does. Because I'm like, if it's not worth it to me to leave, I. I'm gonna choose the baseball season.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No. 100.

[Jana Kramer]

But my manager was like, well, then you. Maybe you should, like, shouldn't be an actor. You know, I'm like, that.

[Shopify Ad Voice]

That's some.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I'm sorry.

[Jana Kramer]

That really, really made me upset.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That right there.

[Jana Kramer]

Like, I am an actor. I left. I have many. I can give you many situations where I've taken $0 to move the needle, where I've left vacations to go film. Like, so. No, like.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, it's not a fair.

[Jana Kramer]

That's not a fair comment.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Fair comment.

[Jana Kramer]

But, you know, but it's tough.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It is tough. You know, I've. I've had a couple of publicists, and my first publicist, you know, kind of said some things like that to me before. Like, you need to get out more. You. You know, you know, you got to understand, like, your kids are going to have to miss you. I'm like, no, they don't. Yeah, no, they don't. Because I know where this is going. And I know there's not a lot of real conversations on podcasts. And I know one day when everybody's done with the misdirection and done with the rage bait and the clickbait, they're going to come right here, and then I'll be able to afford to fly them wherever I want with me. They're a part of it. I never wanted this thing to be, you know, separate from my family and. And a lot of men, when they travel, they. They like that time away.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, sometimes I do like the time away, though, and that's because I like to watch things that I want to watch when I'm with my wife. I have to watch, like, Romper Room bullshit.

[Jana Kramer]

Love is blind.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I love. Love us.

[Jana Kramer]

I do, too.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Oh, my God, I love that show.

[Jana Kramer]

My husband hated it in the beginning, and then I forced him to sit down and watch it with me one day, and he was just like, so we watch the next episode.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, we'll binge that thing.

[Jana Kramer]

I love it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And it's so funny because I've become really good friends with people that are on that show.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like Clay, Grave, Sandy, and Face, probably. Yeah. So Clay is from season six.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And Shane is, I believe, season two.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay. I started watching later. Oh, yes.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

The. The. The beginning seasons are the best.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. Now they're like, kind of get. You know, I don't know. This last one was decent.

[Jana Kramer]

I didn't finish last one.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I didn't finish it. But the one before last, it was an absolute train wreck.

[Jana Kramer]

That was tough.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Train wreck to watch. I'm like, come on. Yeah, come on. You know, it's like. But yeah. So that's the only reason why I love to travel alone. Sometimes.

[Jana Kramer]

I get that.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But I love when they're with me, you know, I love when they get to experience it.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. And most of the time, I bring the kids with me. Like, they were just up there. Including Cleveland with me. I was shooting a film, but it was just the Dominicans. Farther away.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

It's harder travel.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Like, if this was in the States, I'd have been like, yeah, let's do it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

You know, absolutely. But.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So that's the thing. It was a logistics thing. It was a geography thing. It wasn't. I'm not an actor.

[Jana Kramer]

Right. I know, but they had to just throw that one in there. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, what was your. So, like. I mean, like, that right there, though, from your, like, representation. That's hard.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, because that's a test moment. Because I'm sure every bit of you wanted to.

[Jana Kramer]

Like, I'm very reactive.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, me too.

[Jana Kramer]

But what I've learned. And this is, again, I'm gonna just say thank you to my husband for this one. He's really helped me not be reactive in the moment. He's like, take the night. Write it out. And that's the thing. I always write everything out. It's something that my therapist always said, write it out, but don't send it. So I write everything out in my notes, and then the next day I'll redraft it a little less emotional. But I. I did write something back this morning, and I said, I don't appreciate the comment of not saying maybe I shouldn't be an actor. So there's many things that I've done to. To prove that, you know, I'm doing what I want to be doing. And I'm. I'm. I work really hard. I said logistically this just wasn't it for me, and I'm mom first. And if we are not aligned in that, then maybe we're not their best fit.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I love it, you know, when people make comments like that. It's not about you.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, well, they're, they, they're very much in the, like, you should be so grateful. No one's getting offers. And, you know, they like to keep. And I get it. They want quantity. Like, work begets work. And I believe that.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Sure.

[Jana Kramer]

So much. And it's great again. Logistically, I just in my gut was like, I think I'll be very unhappy being there that long.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, you probably would be.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, and again, it's like, you know, to the, to managers and stuff, like, that's a paycheck.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, it's a paycheck for me too, though.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I'm.

[Jana Kramer]

I'm bummed too, you know, I want to be working. That's the thing. Like, I would love to work. I just. Yeah, that was tough.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It's. It's interesting because it's like, it's an ocean away.

[Jana Kramer]

It feels a little harder for my mama heart when it's an ocean away.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I totally get that. Like, I, I couldn't do it. I'd be like, all right, like, you're taking a month off of work.

[Jana Kramer]

My kids can't do that either. How could I call my ex husband and be like, hey, can the kids take off all their baseball season? Like, you're like, no, and I don't want them to either. That's not.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, yeah. No. It's so funny because, you know, Chris by there says, like, you need to move to Nashville.

[Jana Kramer]

Yes, you do.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

My family dynamic. I can't.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, right.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Because, you know.

[Jana Kramer]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know what I'm saying? And so it's like, do I want to live in Nashville? Because Jackie said yesterday, she goes, I would live here.

[Jana Kramer]

It's so great. I'm like, it's so great. Can you convince your ex to move here?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Maybe.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, maybe.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I don't know. Jackie, get on it. She likes you better than me, but.

[Jana Kramer]

No, it usually is the case.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No, it's all. We're all, we're all cool. But, you know, I, I, for me, like, Nashville is a mini hub.

[Jana Kramer]

It is.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

There's a lot of people here, you

[Jana Kramer]

know, and it's centrally ish located. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, like, I get to New York, you know, I can get to California.

[Jana Kramer]

My daughter's like, she's like, it's not centrally located.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

She's making noises she's like, I want to move to Nashville.

[Jana Kramer]

She had the cowgirl hat on.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Coe bought it for. He brought it. Brought it in for her.

[Jana Kramer]

I didn't bring a gift. I didn't know she was gonna be here.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No, no, it's okay. No, it wasn't a prerequisite. No, just, you know, Coey Red. I ran into her music about two years ago.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And it's very. You know, she's from my area in San Francisco Bay.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And it's. You know, she grew up writing hooks for rappers, so she has a lot of pop and hip hop in her country. And when I found her on Instagram, I played it for my wife and played it for me. So Mia's been obsessed for, like, two years.

[Jana Kramer]

How awesome.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

So that's sweet.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, so that's why. So they've. They've. They've talked before. They've done FaceTimes and things like that.

[Jana Kramer]

I love that.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But.

[Jana Kramer]

But we will welcome you with arms wide open.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, no, absolutely. No. It's just great to be here and have this conversation with you. You know, you mentioned your husband helping you with things. Like, Jackie's done that for me because I sense that you and I are a lot alike. Like, we look very polished, very kind. I think we can be a little bit of a monster when you come at us.

[Jana Kramer]

So my thing is, I am. I'm a Sagittarius. What's your sign?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I'm a Scorpio.

[Jana Kramer]

You're a Scorpio. Okay. So it's not that I'm stubborn, but I am stubborn. Like, there's.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

She's arguing with herself, ladies and gentlemen.

[Jana Kramer]

Yes. But I also. I. I'm at a point, too, where I almost, like, I demand respect now. Like, I have been so disrespected for so many years that I. I want respect from people. So when I feel disrespected, that is when I get puffy, you know? Cause I'm just like, no. Like, I. I've. I. I don't deserve that. Like, I know what I deserve, and I don't deserve that. Uh, but I. My first initial reaction is always, like, I get. Because I know every opportunity that I've. A lot of the opportunities. I won't say every. But I've got them for myself. Like, it's. You know, when I meet a producer, I'm like, all right, what's our next project like? I'm a. I'm Michigan. I'm Grit. I was raised with nothing. My mom had three Jobs like it didn't come from money. I, you know, was the sole provider for a very long time with my kids. I pay my ex husband child support. You know, like I have to work, I have to support the family. And so for me it's when I either feel disrespected, I will get a little. But I, I'm just. My therapist calls me scrappy. She's like, you're very scrappy. Like you're gonna get stuff done. But yeah, I can be really emotional at first, which is why he's helped me. Just be like, don't be reactive. Don't send that right now. Because I would just straight up be like, how could you say that? Yeah, you know, that's so rude and hurt.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Which is also a decent question. And it's not incorrect that it was disrespectful. But like, are you gonna get what you want out of it?

[Jana Kramer]

No, not at all. That's the, the whole thing. It's like you don't ever get that. And then you don't. He always said this too. He's like, you don't look as powerful when you come from that point of view.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Wow.

[Jana Kramer]

He's like, if you want to be respected and have. Be powerful, don't come from it. From, from that angle. Take a beat, compose yourself and you. He's a coach, so he's all about like composing yourself and like, you know, sometimes he doesn't do it either the best way. He's Scottish.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like he's, you know, he's also human.

[Jana Kramer]

Fiery too. Yeah, human. But no, he's been really helpful with me to just lock it up. And a lot of times I, lately what I've been doing is just going really inward and, and really trying to say, okay, what, what I've closed the door to, something will open somewhere else. Like I have to believe that starting

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[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

mean, I, I agree with you, you know, and, and, you know, everything that you're saying about your husband. My wife has done for me.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Because I was so quick to respond to everything.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And respond with emotion. But having a spouse that can literally coach you through things and help you grow is super important.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, it always confuses me. It's like, you know, when you said that you're always having to defend yourself, it's like, why at this point do you even have to do that? I'm an outsider and I can clearly see that you proved yourself.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, like that. That is something. Like, do you think that's gonna continue to happen?

[Jana Kramer]

I don't know. You know, what's it gonna take? My buddies, you know, Kellen Lutz, he's, he's a really great actor. He was in, I mean, so many things, but he, we were talking this morning and he goes, you know, he goes, I've gotten to a place where my response is, it's a pass. And then my agent manager will respond with a bunch of stuff and he goes, and he'll just say, I understand, but it's still a pass. He goes, you don't have to over explain yourself in your gut decision because you know, as a mom, as an actor, what your answer is and you don't have to explain it. So I was like, I love that. You know, I'm like, yeah, why did I send this? You know, it wasn't super emotional, but it was longer than it needed to be.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Why can't it just be? But I am so much a people pleaser as well.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's it.

[Jana Kramer]

And I'm so much of a yes person to say yes to everything that I. I'm still learning to trust myself in going no. My gut says no. And I understand what you're saying, but it's a pass.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

And being, like, firm and committed in that decision, I really struggle in that piece, like, and I'm wanting to, like, learn how to just. Just stand firm and be like, okay, that was my answer. And that's that.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I admire that. And that's where I'm striving to as well. Even to say no.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, saying no to last Saturday was very hard for me.

[Jana Kramer]

Yes. Yeah, totally.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Because, like, I don't know who I would meet. That room.

[Jana Kramer]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I don't know what could have come from it.

[Jana Kramer]

Totally. And I now, same thing. I'm like, what if that I could have done another movie with this other producer, director, the movie I just said no to, you know?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. But it's like, it's not our job. It's not our job to worry about those things. You know, you can only do the best you can with the information that you have in front of you.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And I think that's an interesting point for the audience because I think we're all searching for the next thing. Everybody's going through adversity. Everybody's probably scared in the world we live in right now. You know, like, there's some things happening that I'm like, am I. Am I in a movie? Like, what's going on? But, like, the most important thing is that you are there now. Like, wherever you're at, be there. And it's very hard to be present. It's very hard, especially for creators, because our mind's always going, like, what's next? What can I do? Who can I contact to bridge that gap for another project? But I think what I'm starting to learn, and I hope it sticks, is not everything is going to be the next big thing. And if I have to pass on something, it's okay.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, if it. If it raises my excitement level, I'm all in.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, coming here. Right. You know, you were the first one I talked to, and I'm like, oh, wait a second. I know Koe here.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. I mean, there's so many people here.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I Know Fillmore here. And so I'm like, all right, dude, we'll do. We'll do. You know, two hours one day, two hours the next day. And I got excited about it and nothing else mattered. Yeah, it was a full on yes for me. Even the. The fact that I had to leave my two biggest kids because they can't miss school grades or with their grade that they're in and they have extracurriculars. And then it was like, even to the point where if. If Mia and Jackie couldn't come, I'm still going. Does that make sense?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. So one of my theories, and this is something that my husband again brought up to me last night, he goes, this is what you say all the time. And I knew what he was going to say. And I say this to my friends, if it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no, dude.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

My, My.

[Jana Kramer]

I live by that motto.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So my friend Pat Sickens, he's also a partner in my company because if it's not a hell yes, then it's a no.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And this was a hell yes.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Having this conversation with you, with you was a hell yes for me. And I appreciate knowing that about you because that makes me feel like, well, damn.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Well, our time is valuable too. And your time is valuable. Everyone's time is valuable. And I think, think that's too. Where, you know, my biggest thing is trusting. And this is what my husband said. He's like, listen, if you want to go, he said, we will support you. We'll bring the kids for a week if we can. You know, like, we will do what we can to support you if you think this is the right move. He goes, what does your gut say? And I think that's something where, again, not trusting myself for so long, it's like not listening to that first gut instinct. And I'm like, well, my first gut instinct was, no, not to do it. And it's like to lean into that and to trust yourself. I think that is like the biggest takeaway because you're. I do think you have that innate ability to go, okay, let me gut check this. Let me see how I really feel about this. And lean into that.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's interesting for the audience because I think what you said probably resonated with them. And it. And it resonated with me too, because for the longest time I didn't trust myself.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, but what are some things that you did to kind of shift that paradigm to be like, no, I can trust myself. Were there Activities, exercises that you did.

[Jana Kramer]

I mean, there's so many. Like, a lot of things was the. This is kind of silly, but, like, one of my biggest things that worked for me in my healing trauma was I was at this retreat center, and I, I carried a bunch of rocks, and on the rocks, that was like, I deserve abuse. I'm not enough. I'm stupid. Any, any negative thing that I believed about myself, we put it on the rocks, and I'd put it in this backpack. And then I hiked two miles to this river, and I carried the weight of all the negative beliefs on my back. And it was like this quiet walk. And when I got to the river, she was just like, I want you to take the rocks out. I want you to throw the rocks that don't serve you anymore, and I want you to call out the neg to the positive of what it is. And so I went through most of them, and she's like, if you want to hold on to a few rocks, you can. She's like, if you're ready to let them go, you don't have to let them go. The one that I had the hardest time throwing was that I didn't deserve abuse. And eventually I ended up throwing it. But I say all that is because that was the start of me going. The positive thoughts, like, no, I, I, I am smart. I do make good decisions. I am a good mom. I, I, I have to make hard choices sometimes, but I know I'm going to do the right thing. And I know it's such a silly concept, but when you speak positive into yourself and it's gonna just quiet all the negative. So I don't, I don't think sometimes I don't make the best choices, but, you know, I like to go. Because we're human, right? We can't all do it perfect, but, yeah, it's boring. Yeah. Yeah. But like. And of course I have thoughts. Sometimes the negative ones will creep back in, but most of the time, I've been working so hard on being more positive and just being confident in who I am in the decisions that I'm making. I'm in my 40s now. I feel more confident in certain things.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You're in your 40s?

[Jana Kramer]

I'm 42.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Really? Wow.

[Jana Kramer]

Wow. So, yeah, it's just, I think that has been one of the best things and then just again, going back to just trusting yourself and how you feel and, yeah, gut checks. And I love therapy.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So, yeah, you know, I think, you know, the exercise you did with the rocks, I Think those things. I know they work.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You have to commit to it.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, because, you know, the thing that I imagine when some people listen to it, they're like, oh, they roll their eyes.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Of course. I've learned paper. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Write a letter and burn it. What the hell is that going to do?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Nothing. With that attitude.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But if you really connect to the exercise.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And you're like, okay, I'm going to write this all out. I'm going to feel the emotion of what it is. I'm riding on this rock.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And then I'm going to feel the emotion of pulling out of my backpack because I don't have to carry this anymore.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. And I walked back, by the way, two miles with a lighter backpack, and I didn't feel weight.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That must have been nice.

[Jana Kramer]

That was great. I was like, how does this feel? I really like this.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, wow. It's like start to get cramps in my. My traps. I don't. I don't feel that way anymore. But when you commit to something, you know, like, you did, even the one, like, I deserve the abuse, like holding on to that rock and not wanting to throw it back in that. And throw it in that water, working through the fact that you did not, in fact, deserve it and finally releasing it, that's what makes things so effective. Not just, all right, cool. Yeah, thanks. Like, that'll never work.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Right. But. But that's. That's a good exercise, you know, And I. And I hope the audience, like, listen to that. Whatever they choose. Right. If they want to write a letter out to someone who's, you know, abused them or.

[Jana Kramer]

I had a funeral service, basically in therapy for my. For my ex. My ex, like, my last marriage. You know what I mean? Like, I had to literally write a eulogy, like my therapist. It was so silly.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Wow.

[Jana Kramer]

But it was so great because it was a death, you know, and things like that help you heal and move on.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's crazy. So you guys heard that?

[Jana Kramer]

I know. It's so silly. Like, some of the things I would tell my friends, they'd be like, that's a little weird. But I'm like. And it worked.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, it's funny because, like, I think it applies in a lot of different areas. Right. So there was, I think, about three years ago, I was going through a really hard time when I was building the show, you know, super out of shape, and, you know, we weren't making any money. We couldn't. Couldn't monetize this thing. They Couldn't figure it out.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And I was just. You know, we were really struggling. And, you know, I had this conversation with a buddy of mine, and I recently had him back on my show. What I didn't know is he was taking notes the whole time we were talking, right. And he pulled out his little pad on my show. What we did, like, maybe a month and a half ago, and we did this exercise, this visualization exercise. And he's like, who are you? What do you see? Where are you at? What are you wearing? And I'm like, I'm wearing tight black pants, tight black shirt. You know, red and black, red and black Nikes, you know, like, with white accents. And, you know, I'm vascular. I'm in shape. And he goes, what are you wearing right now? I was wearing the exact outfit. He's like, now look at your vascularity. You created your reality three years ago, right now. How can you say you're not winning?

[Jana Kramer]

Wow.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And so, like, that's the thing, right? Like, when you commit to something and you go through the action with intention. Doesn't matter what it is. Therapy, building something like, yo, it's gonna work.

[Jana Kramer]

It may not work if you put your. Yeah. The. All your energy and effort and love into it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, put your back into it, girl. You gotta put your back into it. You gotta. You gotta do those things. And so, like, when people say therapy doesn't work, it's because you're not putting into it.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You're expecting to go or you don't

[Jana Kramer]

have the right therapist. I've also had.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Well, yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Not.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Great therapists, too. It takes a couple times. Like, don't get discouraged if the first one you don't connect with. Like, that's okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

How did you find the right therapist for you and everything that you're going through?

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, she was such a godsend. I was having really bad anxiety. It was when I was in my last marriage, and my friend just said, you know, you should really go to do emdr. And I didn't really know much about emdr, but she is an EMDR specialist. And. And then I was just like, can you be my therapist, too? Like, she's incredible.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So, yeah, I've always wanted. You haven't done that yet.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, emdr. It's great. It's really, really, really great.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, I. I've really wanted to, because there's still some things, you know, like, my reaction sometimes.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Like, they would do what you spoke about with your face. Like, they would walk you through that, and then Maybe that would help your. The intensity. So it's all about, like, lessening the intensity of how that moment trigger trauma makes you feel. So it might help with that, you know?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. What. What I also really want to dig into is, like, and my wife says this to me all the time, is like, we had it. We. We had a. A little bit of a conversation Friday. And by conversation, I mean, like, it was. It was a little intense.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Sometimes I say things and react certain ways, and I don't understand that I'm doing it right. Like, I don't understand my tone.

[Jana Kramer]

I mo. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And I'm like, no, I just said this.

[Jana Kramer]

Were you in our couple's therapy yesterday?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Was I. Was I there? Yeah, maybe.

[Jana Kramer]

I think it's a guy thing too, though.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Is it?

[Jana Kramer]

I don't think men understand their tone. Again, my husband's Scottish, so that's already pretty tough. Like, he's harsh.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yes.

[Jana Kramer]

You know, sounds angrier than he's intending it to be. But I do feel like you guys can be a bit defensive when women just want to have a conversation or be heard.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Hey, quiet on back there.

[Jana Kramer]

Am I right about that? Sometimes we don't. We don't want you to fix it. We don't want you to. You know, it's really about hearing us. I think that's. Yeah, we have that issue at times as well where I'm like, I just need you to not come back either

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

with a fix or, someone help me over here. Someone help me.

[Jana Kramer]

Chris with drowning all by himself.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Is that about accurate?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No, it is, you know, and Chris is just watching me get beat up over here. But no, I think that, you know, the thing is, is sometimes I feel the way it comes out when I'm approached with it. I was like, can you say it differently? But then I hear, well, if I say it like that, you still have this reaction. So maybe it is a guy thing. Maybe. Maybe we are just, you know, maybe it's like we feel shamed when our women are, like, saying, yo, this is what's wrong. This is wrong. Like, you know, this is what's going on right now.

[Jana Kramer]

Well, I think we have to also deliver it in a way where it's not. Like, I've learned in therapy, too, how to deliver it, where my husband doesn't feel that. Hopefully he wouldn't take it as defensive. Like, hey, when you brought this up the other day, it really made me feel, like, frustrated. And so I'm just. Would love some clarity around it. If they get defensive, that's Then, yeah, you're, you know.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Your fault in it, I guess. But you should then go, okay, my art therapist is always like, you guys are not the enemy. So take a beat and go, okay. She's not trying to hurt me. She's not trying to say I'm doing something wrong. What is she. What is she wanting me to hear right now and to lean in, to be like, okay, can you explain that a little bit more so I can understand how I could have done that better? Or, you know, like, having the conversation instead of just being like, what do you mean? You know, or, like, dismissing it or being defensive or trying to.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No, that's the thing, though. It's. It's so hard.

[Jana Kramer]

It's so hard. Of course.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So hard.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I just want to chill. I just want to, like.

[Jana Kramer]

But our therapists say the best relationships are the ones that can have arguments but repair.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

And that's where it's like, if you can repair, well, your marriage will be. Well, basically.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, I think. And. And I don't know what her thought is, but I feel like, you know, and she won't get on camera.

[Jana Kramer]

She's so beautiful.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I know.

[Jana Kramer]

Good job.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Thank you. Winning?

[Jana Kramer]

Not saying, like, you couldn't. I'm just saying.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. You know. Oh, trust me, I've heard that, too. How'd you pull that one off?

[Jana Kramer]

It's just stunning. You like her cheekbones? My gosh.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I know. Tell me about it. Come here, girl. Come here.

[Jana Kramer]

Mamacita, mamacita.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It's about all I know, papi, but, you know, I forgot where I was going with this. See, I love. See, I love the side chatter. Like, that's what I love about what we do here. You know, he's just. It's not put together. We're just. We're a mess after Friday night.

[Jana Kramer]

Yes. Your fight. Did you repair?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I feel that I.

[Jana Kramer]

Did you repair? Well, because that is, in my opinion, yes. Did he repair? Well? Okay, good.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So the night of.

[Jana Kramer]

No.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Stubborn as an asshole. Like, I was like, no, but. But

[Jana Kramer]

what could you have done better? In that moment of being the asshole, did you think of her as the enemy? Did you?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, I did. I.

[Jana Kramer]

Was she being the enemy?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No. I misinterpreted something.

[Jana Kramer]

So that would have been a good moment to then ask for clarity.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Right.

[Jana Kramer]

So that you didn't go straight to your.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I reacted. I know why.

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Men.

[Jana Kramer]

Men, Men, Men, Men.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Great show.

[Jana Kramer]

Good show.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I missed that show.

[Jana Kramer]

Good show.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Damn. So funny. So funny. Okay, so. No, I think, you know, when I misinterpreted something. My perception was something was said. Then I went harder and doubled down on that word. And it was. It was not good. It was not good. But, like, you know, we. We argued and then eventually, like, we get back on track and we, like, walk through things, and then I'd misinterpret something she would say, and I. And then she would misinterpret something that I would say. Then we go backwards. But at the end of the night, it was. I'm sure there was that residue of something happened, but it was also like, nothing happened. And since then, I've been more aware of, like, maybe my reaction in this certain situation needs to get better. And I feel like I've tried to be more patient since then. I don't know, I just feel more at peace. Like, yeah, like, okay, like, hopefully that was the conversation that needed to happen so I can be there for her more, like, and. And not be this super reactionary person. I'm not perfect. I'm going to have times where I backslide nobody. Like, I'm. Yeah, there's going to be times.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But it's like, overall, I feel like I've been less of what she would call frustrated or annoyed towards her.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Well, I also think that's an inventory check that, like, we have to do on ourselves in those moments. Like, when I react a way that I don't want to react, I always go. Or if he does, I'm like, did he have a stressful day today? Did he lose a client? Did he gain? Like, is he. Is this. Is he. You know, what is going on in his world? Because I think we don't. We let those things come into our.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Arguments. Sure, sure.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like frustrations over career.

[Jana Kramer]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Or whatnot. It's like, for sure.

[Jana Kramer]

You know, I know if, like, when I was in my head the other day, like, if he would have came at me, I'd have been like, what? What? Like, I would have been more. Yeah, probably like more wrong doing something right now. You know, it's like. But that's not his fault. I'm in my own head. I'm not excited explaining that I'm dealing with something that's. I'm struggling with.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Do you realize how hard that is?

[Jana Kramer]

Like, oh, it's so. It's. It's vulnerability. And it's the toughest thing to. To.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

To feel that sometimes marriage in general is like, you have two separate human beings that also live separate lives, like, for work and stuff. And then she has her day, he has his day and then you come home at the end of the day and everybody's brought back together. And it, it could be very contentious. Right.

[Jana Kramer]

Throw kids on top of it, then

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

throw three kids on top of it.

[Jana Kramer]

Sports and sports and all of it. Dinner time.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Two year old exes.

[Jana Kramer]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like external factors that could, you know, I mean, good God, man, I think we're killing life here. We're. That's a lot. That's a lot. But I mean, the fact of the matter is, is, yeah, you just show up, you do the best you can and hopefully you can admit when you're wrong and, you know, fix things and. But no, I just. The dynamics is just like the communication aspect of life in general, but especially in a marriage, I think a lot of people really struggle with it. I know I do. Again, because no one's perfect. But being open to maybe the fact that, you know, the other person doesn't have to be right and you don't have to be right. But you can seek to understand.

[Jana Kramer]

That's always my thing. I'm like, you will never unders. Like, you might not ever understand and I might not ever understand you, but I wanna, I wanna listen and try to understand. Yeah. I don't. I might not think it's right, but I can.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

And I just want that same thing back.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I think there's a 0% possibility that men will understand women completely and women will understand men completely.

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[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

of course, there's no shot. We were wired way too differently. You just have to understand where someone's coming from. Perspective, right?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. And I think it's again, like making sure that like, you, you're not the enemy. She's not your enemy. He's not my enemy.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Are we. Are you. Are we in a counseling session?

[Jana Kramer]

I know. Are we?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Seriously? So, so what's.

[Jana Kramer]

And repair. It's all about repair.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So how do you feel? How did that make you feel?

[Jana Kramer]

I know.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No, I love these types of conversations because they're, they, they evolve. Right. So I think about this whole conversation is like, okay, we started here, then it evolves into this. And it's all for the simple fact that someone on the other side needed to hear that. And it's really cool that way. Like, that's what I love about art. It's like, even, like, obviously, even what you do, like, you're doing it like you're, you're, you're in a role and it's serving a purpose. Because I think there's a lot of people out there that watch movies differently. Yeah, I watch movies completely differently than I used to. What can I learn? How does this fit into my platform? Is there a shot I could even talk to this person? And what can it serve my audience?

[Jana Kramer]

Can you get Jason Sudeikis on? And for shrinking. Do you want shrinking? Oh, no. What happened?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

The most genius show.

[Jana Kramer]

I'm obsessed with it. Sorry. Laugh like. It is literally my favorite show. You need to get him on which one?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Okay, so sometimes I know faces, but I don't know names.

[Jana Kramer]

He's the. Not Harrison Ford, obviously. The other. The other.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's Jason Siegel.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, Siegel. Sorry. I said today. Guess. Jesus. Jason Siegel. You need to get Jason Siegel on the show.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I would lose my mind. My publicist met Harrison Ford. Matt Uriel, the other Day or. I think that's his name, right?

[Jana Kramer]

He's the.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

He's Brian in the show.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And apparently he said yes.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, my gosh. Please tell him I'm, like, the largest fan of that show.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Dude, I love that show.

[Jana Kramer]

Such a good. Harrison Ford is amazing. Siegel is amazing. Jesus.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I was like, wait a second. I'm having a hard time here. Yeah, that's a great show.

[Jana Kramer]

It's so. And that's what I'm talking about. Like, those kind of shows. Like, I watch TV now because I'm like, okay, that show makes me laugh. It makes me cry.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It makes me.

[Jana Kramer]

Has the therapy aspect in it. I'm learning something. I'm reflecting. Like, that is my favorite.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I looked at Jackie one night, and I'm like, I don't. I'm. I'm literally about to lose my. I'm gonna cry. I'm gonna cry. I'm gonna cry because it's so.

[Jana Kramer]

Again, so good.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

We can go all the way back to One Tree Hill. It's the same thing. These bad things happen, and, like, we're literally watching real people acting out these situations that people go through.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And it. It can help because, you know, like, damn. Other people are struggling with this stuff.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But no, that. That show is really good.

[Jana Kramer]

It's so good.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Have you seen Platonic yet?

[Jana Kramer]

No. I'd like it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, you like?

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It's funny.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It has.

[Jana Kramer]

I'm usually not a comedy girl. I usually like the dramas and the.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, the thrillers.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But it's my bestie. I. I am, like, all about twist my brain as hard as you.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, for sure. Like Mobland. Like, all of those. Like, Ozark. I'm obsessed with all of them.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Genius show.

[Jana Kramer]

So good.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Genius show.

[Jana Kramer]

Like, that's the kind of show I would love to be on. Like, the. My whole thing is I want to be on a TV show. Like, that is my dream goal back. I want to be back on a show.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. So that'd be great to see.

[Jana Kramer]

Thanks.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That'd be really great to see.

[Jana Kramer]

Like, Friends and Neighbors. I love that. Kind of, like, has a little comedy in it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But, yeah, go watch Platonic.

[Jana Kramer]

It's.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It's a comedy, but it's Seth Rogen. I like Seth Rogen and Rose.

[Jana Kramer]

Burn. No.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Burn from Bridesmaids.

[Jana Kramer]

Love.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yes.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

She's awesome.

[Jana Kramer]

She's fantastic.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Incredible, incredible show.

[Jana Kramer]

I feel like that's the only comedy I could do. Well, maybe. I mean, like, she's incredible. Like, I'm not, like, a slapstick. Kind of. I could never do.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Jackie's not.

[Jana Kramer]

I don't ever audition for comedy. Like, I'm just not like.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Well, I don't think it.

[Jana Kramer]

I don't think Roseburn has, like, a dryness to her that I would love. She's good to play.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

She's really good. I couldn't see you in a comedy.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, I'm just. Yeah, I think I have too.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You're funny because I'm with you in person. You have a good sense of humor. I'm not saying you're a deadbeat. I'm just saying I don't know. I don't know if the world's ready to see you in a comedy.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, no, I. I wanna. I wanna do more.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

I. I need it to connect.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

That's the thing. Like, it's. That is also, like, acting as such therapy for me too, in a way.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Like, it helps me.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's awesome. I mean, these conversations too, for me, like, when I have conversations with people like you and then other guests, like, there's things that I work through real time. And the thing that I love about podcasting, you have a podcast, the Wind down podcast.

[Jana Kramer]

It's been eight years.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Oh, really?

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I thought.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I've been going a long time.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. So I get it. Like, in the beginning it's like, you know, you weren't making money, and then afterwards you're like, oh, okay, like this is. But then. Then I'll. Then a lot of people have podcasts and so it's, you know, the fluctuations with. It is interesting.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Oh, the podcast industry.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So fun, isn't it?

[Jana Kramer]

It is. It's difficult. I mean, I've thought about quitting the podcast many times just because it's. A lot of times things are taken out of context and then it's just a headline. And that makes sense. Me really frustrated when it's out of context. And then sometimes too, I say things that I'm like, crap, I should have edit. I shouldn't have said it like that. It's already out. And then it's.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, it's. Oh, well. Oh, well. Let it eat, girl. Let it eat. Yeah. Nothing I really say turns into a headline because I'm not a name yet. But I'm sure at one point, if I say something, I have to be very careful because, you know, and I'm still careful now because people like to go back in time.

[Jana Kramer]

Yes, they do.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Listen, he's doing so good. She's killing it. Let me her up.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Let me Find a way. Yeah. Shoe drop. She dropped. You did this in 1995. I was 13.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No, I was, like, probably 15. Anyway, I digress. But, like, that's the thing.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You. You know, and. And try not to beat yourself up about that, though, because.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, no, no. I. I just. I. I do. Like, there's been things where I'm like, I should not have said it like that, because I do hold myself to. To. I don't like to be prejudged. Like, you can have your opinion after we meet and hang out and talk or whatever, but I don't like it. Someone who just prejudges someone. And sometimes I've done that in the past, and I'm like, I just went against what I believe your.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Your only flaw as a friend is you haven't followed me back on Instagram yet. Oh, shoot.

[Jana Kramer]

Have I not?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Your husband does that. We're besties. We're besties, me and your husband, on Instagram.

[Jana Kramer]

I will do it as soon as I leave.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

God damn right.

[Jana Kramer]

I'm so sorry.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Unbelievable.

[Jana Kramer]

I go. I'm so bad, bad with that. I need to get better.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But, dude, it's hard. Like, do you like.

[Jana Kramer]

I try to stay off as much as I can, but I do go in my DMs, because they're kinder in DMs.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, they are. Yeah. I. I don't get a lot of hate in dms. Like, it's. It's really nice.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. The DMS are usually like 99.9 are sweet.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yet I don't get it yet. I'm sure at one point.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I just straight up, I'll block.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Oh, yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

So, yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I don't deal with it in block.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You don't.

[Jana Kramer]

Like, someone said something earlier today, and I honestly can't remember what it was, but I was just like, block.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Do you know where people are really mean?

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, I don't even want to bring up the website.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

YouTube and X. Oh, yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

They're. Yeah. Okay. I was thinking. Yes. I don't even want to say it because I didn't want to give them.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Okay. Off camera. I want to know, though, if that's.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I was on Piers Morgan one time.

[Jana Kramer]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Twice.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And after the first one, was he.

[Jana Kramer]

Is he great?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I liked him.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, he's cool. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But the panelists. So then also was on with Tommy Lahren.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Which we become friendly.

[Jana Kramer]

Great.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I was on her show. Me and her husband have connected, you know, but there's just. It was about the show adolescence.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, okay. What were your thoughts?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It was a great show.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But it was also very heartbreaking because there's, you know, they talked about the manosphere and how so sad. It's. It's wacko.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But I got torched.

[Jana Kramer]

Why?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I got tort. I'm. I was called a covert feminist, and because I allow my wife out of the house to work.

[Jana Kramer]

I'm sorry.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

No, no, no, I'll repeat it. Yeah, exactly. Covert feminist. Because my wife should be at home homeschooling my children and I should be out making the money. Can you like that? But. But again, that's the genre of that actual episode would bring those people in. Right. And so I got torched on it.

[Jana Kramer]

Why, though?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Torched? Someone said, oh, also, Sean French. I love seeing my wife get down by another guy because that's what she. Because I said. I'm glad she works because that's what she wants to do.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I mean, can you believe that? It's so.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. People. That's harsh.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. I was like, dude, I don't know if I could do this.

[Jana Kramer]

I'm like. And I have, you know, best friends who. Who do stay home and, you know, they. They homeschool and. But. And that's great too. Like, I think it's all wonderful and. Yeah. But I just wish people would hold those judgments and comments to themselves.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Well, I mean, again, we. I don't know if they were bots. I don't know. I don't. I don't know know. Yeah, But I mean, I know actual people would retweeted and, like, just torched me. And they were. You've made it, people. I made it. You know, so I was like, oh, my God, what do I do? And then my former publicist, welcome to fame. I'm like, oh, yeah, this. You can keep this.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I'm sensitive. Like, I'm a. I'm a real human.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

But, like, you know, those. Those people are always going to come out. It's the only time I ever experienced that. This isn't fun. Like, this is not okay. Like, this is very hard for me to deal with.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, it was. It was really hard for me to deal with too. I mean, I've got, you know, some haters, and I used to always want 100 approval rate.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

And I just know now that that's will never happen. And I have to be okay with that. Yeah, I am now.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. No, that's good, because you're never gonna

[Jana Kramer]

kill myself and be like, okay. They think they Think I'm to this. So let me act now like this on myself. Socials or they think I'm being this way. Okay, so let me. Let me be this. And I'm like, how about I just be myself? But it's hard because I'm like, I'd want them. I want them to understand. I want them to like me. I want them to. Of course.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. We all have this tendency to want to be liked, right? But one of the things that I like about you and, you know, I was telling my wife about, like, I was like, dude, I want to be friends with her because she's so real.

[Jana Kramer]

Thanks.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, like, that. Don't let these idiots, you know.

[Jana Kramer]

Well, no, it became, like, exhausting. And I was just like, this is. I'm gonna. I'm gonna messed up. I'm gonna say things. I don't. Because I remember one thing went really public, and I was horrified by it, and I called. I don't have a publicist because I'm, again, too cheap with it. But she's, you know, because she's there. They're so expensive. I love. I love her, but she. You know, I didn't really have anything going on at the time, too. And I was like, all right, I don't really need one. But I said, oh, my gosh, so I need to make some apology. She's like, just don't say anything. Let it. Just let it go.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Let it eat.

[Jana Kramer]

But I'm like, but they're gonna think that I'm. She's like, they will be on another story by tomorrow.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yep.

[Jana Kramer]

And they were. But it still kills me inside that people might have a perception because I said something, you know, And I'm like,

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

yeah, well, it's so funny, because I'm pretty tied into everything because my job is understand what's going on out there in the industry. What's the commentary? I don't even know what you're talking about.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

It's a couple years ago. Yep. Don't. Don't even know.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay, great.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Don't even know. A couple years ago. That's like a decade.

[Jana Kramer]

I know, but it still eats me because it's not who I am. Do you know what I mean?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, I do.

[Jana Kramer]

Like, and that. It still bothers me to this day.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Because I'm like, that is not my, like, soul in my heart. And, like, I, you know, I. That's not who I am.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. But.

[Jana Kramer]

And I think we all missed up. And I think, okay, I really learned from that. And. Yeah, I did a. I did a DM to the person. They never. I don't think they ever saw it, nor responded. But that's fine. I at least did it privately.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You did it privately. You did it for.

[Jana Kramer]

You know. I am so sorry.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I am so sorry. See, it takes a big person, you know.

[Jana Kramer]

Anyways, we're friends though. We will follow. I'll follow back when we are officially friends. And I like your wife. She's awesome.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, my wife's great. My wife's great. I wish we were staying long. Does she have a nosebleed? Oh, a little monkey.

[Jana Kramer]

Sweet thing. Are you okay?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

My daughter has a nosebleed. Guys, she behind camera. I love you, baby.

[Jana Kramer]

You guys have to come back and come over or come to the lake.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I would love to. I would love to. I'm here until tomorrow, but. No, we'll come back. Yeah, absolutely. I was. I think I'm gonna be back up within a couple months.

[Jana Kramer]

Great.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So definitely take you up on that offer. Do the lake house. There's a. There's. We gotta wind down here, but I

[Jana Kramer]

see what you did there.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Wow. There's one thing that struck me in our interview that I connected with the. The movie and I want to talk about it.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay, go for it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

And I didn't go back to it until this time because it just wasn't the time. Flow of conversation. Okay, but your son's song, your seven year old, you sang in the hospital in that movie when your baby had passed.

[Jana Kramer]

Yep. Wow.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I pay attention.

[Jana Kramer]

You sure do.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I pay attention.

[Jana Kramer]

That's a good one. And you know what's so funny is I. I started singing that actually post that movie because I have lost babies before. And so that. That scene also was very, you know, hard. And so there's a song that I won't take credit for. My ex husband actually came up with a song. The song we sing the kids every night or mostly every night and when they were babies. Every single night. And then I started singing that song after that one and it just was like a full circle.

[Bank of America Ad Voice]

Wow.

[Jana Kramer]

Moment was.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

That's really cool.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Are you still singing too?

[Jana Kramer]

I mean, like for fun.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Okay.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Okay, cool.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah, cool.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Wow. I. I mean, thank you for being comfortable and showing your emotion. Oh, you're like, oh, don't worry, I'm

[Jana Kramer]

locking it up right now. Lock it up.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I look forward to our friendship and meeting your family and, you know, kicking it at the lake house and. But I'm also looking.

[Jana Kramer]

I'LL be there. Since I'm not filming anymore. Apparently, I'm not an actor anymore. She's not an actor anymore.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

She doesn't want to work.

[Jana Kramer]

I know. I do want to work.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I know, I know. I want to miss baseball, but you're gonna work.

[Jana Kramer]

I'm gonna work.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You're gonna work. Like, you'll be in something. You're gonna be in the tv.

[Jana Kramer]

We're gonna manifest TV show.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I'm in tv.

[Jana Kramer]

Can we manifest that?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yes, I want to.

[Jana Kramer]

What do you want? What do you want to manifest? Getting Jason Siegel on the show. Harrison Ford.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Well, no, that'd be. That'd be all great. Like, you know, guests on the show be great. But for me, what it's really about is I do want tv.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah. Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I've always wanted tv.

[Jana Kramer]

Like a podcast tv. Like, what do you. What do you think? Are we an actor, too?

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I don't know. I don't. I don't. I don't know. Everybody says, like, you'd be. You need to be on tv.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

So I think, for me, like, how it may start and the way I always see it starting is me hosting.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like. Like a show. And I don't know what it looks like, but I also want to do meaningful things. So I think, you know, acting in. In some show. I think I would love to do that, even if it's just my own show. And we're. We're. We're streaming this type of stuff, like, whatever it is. I'm open to it, but.

[Jana Kramer]

Well, don't forget the little people on your way up.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Don't forget me when you get that TV show with. Let's. That I'm in. Like, hey, there's this no name in Florida. He's never acted, but you have.

[Jana Kramer]

I need his wife. I mean. I mean, she won't do it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

She won't do it. She won't do it. So you'd have to. You'd have to settle for me.

[Jana Kramer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah. She. She won't even come on camera.

[Jana Kramer]

Done deal.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I know. I think having an episode with her would be like.

[Jana Kramer]

Oh, I think that would be, like, your most downloaded episode I would listen to.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I think it would. Yeah.

[Jana Kramer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I mean, I think that it would help people.

[Jana Kramer]

Yep.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

You know, but I mean, if you're not into helping people in their life, then, you know, you don't have to do it. It's fine.

[Jana Kramer]

She's helping your daughter with a bloodiness.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

I know. Seriously. That's selfish. It's. That's just her. It's her daughter. You have to do it. I'm just. No, no. But, no. Again, thank you.

[Jana Kramer]

Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Like I said this, but I'll say it again. Thank you for thinking of me and sure. Having me on. I really appreciate it. I know your time is valuable, and so I do appreciate it.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Well, no, you're valuable. You're valuable. Time is too.

[Jana Kramer]

Jesus, is this an awkward.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Like, that's an awkward moment. That's a blooper, people. That's what they call that. Take that, put that in the outtakes. No, your time's valuable too. And I just appreciate you being so down to earth and, you know, again, it's like, you know, reach out to you as someone who's a fan and has watched you in a lot of things and respected your work. And now we're friends. It's kind of crazy.

[Jana Kramer]

Heck, yeah. Follow back, dude.

[Shopify Ad Voice]

Follow back.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yo, Hashtag that.

[Jana Kramer]

So gotta get a Getty.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Yeah, I gotta get a Getty. One day. One day maybe for our TV show. Yeah, there we go. Full circle out in the universe now. Let's just work hard and see if it happens. But so, everybody, thank you for listening and watching. Please go watch the movie Gaslit by My Husband and you will not be disappointed. You know, there's some moments in there that could be really triggering, but it's also real life and it's a true story. And so check out Janet Kramer and that. And if you haven't watched One Tree Hill, go back and watch those things too, because those are awesome.

[Jana Kramer]

Take you about a year, but go for.

[Podcast Host (Male, possibly Rory Vaden)]

Take us like, two weeks. We get after it. We don't stop when we're tired. We stop when we're done. So. But anyway, guys, thank you so much for listening. Share the show with somebody you know love and trust. Especially with someone who's gone through some of the things that we about, talk about today with either emotional or physical abuse. Be there for them. Share this with them, because they aren't alone. And until next time, guys, stay determined.