← Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset
Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset
John O’Leary: The Real-Life Miracle Behind Soul on Fire
00:55:02
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Tap the banner to shop now. For those that haven't read the book, talk about that day.
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B
I'm nine a week before. I watch kids play with fire and gasoline in my neighborhood and I walked into the garage bent over a five gallon can of gasoline, set the flame down, bear hugged the can and waited for liquid. The fumes grabbed the flame, creates this massive explosion and then launches me 20ft against the far side of the garage. I'm burned on 100% of my body. I'm in the emergency room covered man in burns and I hear my father's voice down the hall yelling at some nurse and I'm like, dude, he's coming to finish me off. Man marches in, he's a veteran, points down and says very firmly, john, I love you and there's nothing you can do about it.
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C
What was the first download the thought that you had after he said that?
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B
Moments later comes my mom and I look up at my mom and I say, mom, am I going to die? And she says back to me this bold question. Do you want to.
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C
John o'? Leary? You were literally supposed to die. You were given a 0% chance to make it through the night. But here we are years later having this amazing conversation. He wrote an incredible book called On Fire and there's a movie based on your story. Bro, that Comes out very, very soon. Starring William H. Macy. What a dream. Baby, Talk to me.
- [02:39]
B
It is a dream. And it doesn't seem like it's my life, that's for sure. The book you held up a moment ago, when they first did the COVID for On Fire, it was a picture of o' Leary wearing a tie, like a power tie, bright red probably, arms were crossed. And I'm looking out at the reader with a stoic face, like, people, should you decide to read this, you shall be great like me, perhaps. So I wrote them back, and I'm like, guys, read the book. It's not about me. And when they redid the jacket, you see there's no photo of me on the front or the back. Those letters, on Fire, they're. It's called. It's called Foil Wrap. The idea, Sean, is that when you hold that in your hands, you see a reflection of yourself in those letters. Not me, like your life. That's what we wanted to show you in that. And then the film poster for Soul on Fire, when they first did that, it was a picture of the guy playing me in the film named Joel Courtney. And there was a victory pose. His arms were in the air like this, in color, looking out at the screen. He just throwing out a first pitch at a sold out baseball game. Like, look at the winner at the hero. So I wrote back to Sony and I said, hey, guys, watch the film again. It's. It's not about John o'. Leary. And so now when you look at the film poster for Soul on Fire, they turned him around. He's kind of shadowed out. And what the film poster ultimately is, is the mosaic of all the people in John's life who showed up for him, what they did, the love they gave and the life they changed. And so the only way I can stomach books about myself or podcast or films and is recognizing none of it's about me. And that's not humility, it's awareness.
- [04:16]
C
I love that, John. And, you know, I want to give the audience some context behind my story and how you actually relate to it.
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B
You.
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C
You showed up for me, dude, and you didn't even know. So what you created in your life by choices you made, by becoming a victor instead of a victim, you put out this amazing story of community coming together to help you heal. Right? And I remember right around 2017, right around there, it might have been 2016 when the book was published. I was walking through a bookstore. And now listen, you know, My son was 3, and I just had, you know, My first daughter, you know, I'm doing very good in sales, but there's just something missing in my life, and I couldn't really figure out what it was. I was just hurting in some way. I needed something else to tap into the thing that I was just laying dormant, like, allowing to lay dormant. And I couldn't find a book. You know, I'm going around and a lot of times, like, to your point, like, I will pick up a book based on the COVID and I saw yours finally. Is that On Fire? I'm like, oh, what is this? I want to be on fire. Because I thought it was about just being lit up, right? To. To go out there and conquer. And that's the kind of energy that I wanted to be on. But then I read the description, and I'm like, oh, this is much different. I'm still going to buy this book. And for those who know me, know that I'm not going to sit and read a book cover to cover. It's very hard for me to do that and sit down. But I picked up your book, I read it cover to cover, and I remember talking to my wife about you years ago. I said, this book right here is going to serve a big purpose in my life. And now here I am, you know, however many years later, because I suck at math, I'm having this conversation with you about your book, that a movie was just made, you know, chronicling, and actually talk to one of the stars of the movie about your story. And so I sit here to say, and for the audience listening and watching, don't just pick up a book, connect with it. Don't just have a conversation, connect with it. Because you never know. Years later, this whole thing could come full circle and you could literally be having a conversation with some of that impact that you're like.
- [06:32]
B
That is so cool. Like, oftentimes the work, because I'm a speaker and a writer, have a podcast, but it's a little bit like throwing seeds in the field, and you don't really return to the field. It's very difficult in the work we do to really understand what has happened and. And more importantly, is it worth it? So to hear one story, your story, that somehow this book hit you at the right time and moved you in the right direction and lit you up again. You're right, man. Like, On Fire is not about, like, sprinting through walls. It's about reminding yourself that it's possible if you want to walk through them or climb over them or walk around them. Like, you can Move forward in your life, you have agency, but you've got to stop making excuses.
- [07:16]
C
So true. And indeed like I will be, you know, very, very forthcoming and saying like, dude, if I had never read your book, I'm not doing what I'm doing.
- [07:25]
B
Awesome.
- [07:26]
C
That's. And that's true. I, people that know me and listen to me for a very long time know that I don't say that's not true. Like I, I will give my honest, honest opinion. And so for, for those that haven't read the book, you know, they obviously haven't seen the movie yet. Right? But, but walk them talk about that day, man. Talk about that day that your whole life kind of took a little bit of a. Well, it's a little bit facetiously, but a detour.
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B
It took a little detour. You know, an explosion in your childhood house will do that to a man. So here's the story in a nutshell. I'm nine a week before I watch kids play with fire and gasoline in my neighborhood. This is the 80s. Crazy things are happening. You don't have anything to do, so you just mess around outside all the time. And I figured if these kids could do that at 11 and 12, I could certainly do it at age 9. So the following weekend, my mom and dad are gone, the house was mine. I walked into the garage bent over a five gallon can of gasoline, try to pour a little bit of gas on top of this little bit like essentially match on fire. And as I reach for the can, Sean, it's too heavy. It's, it's five gallons. That's 42 pounds. Set the flame down, bear hugged the can very carefully, tipped it and waited for liquid. And before the liquid came out, the fumes grabbed the flame, pulls it back into the to the container, creates this massive explosion, splits the metal into, picks up the nine year old boy and then launches me 20ft against the far side of the garage. So this little detour man, in short, I find myself trapped in a garage covered in gasoline. Everything around me is burning and so am I. Later that morning, I'm in the emergency room. That's a true story. I'm in the emergency room covered man, in burns and in pain. But the thought I had like on repeat, like this drum beat was, oh my gosh, my dad is going to freaking kill me when he finds out what I did to the garage. Like this thing is done. What, why is the staff messing with me? Have they not met my dad? And you know, we talked about heroes a moment ago. And. And you're about to start seeing them show up. So I'm. I'm laying in the emergency room, dying, and I hear my father's voice down the hall yelling at some nurse, where is my boy, John? And I'll buy, dude, he's coming to finish me off. So one of them brings him back. Should have called security. He opens up, the curtain man marches in. He's a veteran, Points down and says very firmly, john, look at me when I'm talking to you. So I look up. And then he adds, I have never been so proud of anyone in my entire life. And my little buddy, today, this morning, I'm glad, just simply glad to be your dad. And then sh. My dad goes, john, I love you. And there's nothing you can do about it. Wow.
- [10:32]
C
Wow. And at that point, right, and first of all, I mean, to me, it's kind of a miracle that you're even aware of anything at that point, right? And you. And you hear your father tell you that. What was the first download, the thought that you had after he said that?
- [10:51]
B
So these are my memories. This isn't like. Well, it was told to me that this is. This is just what happened. So what I remember, immediately afterwards, he says he loves me. There's nothing I can do about it. I shut my eyes and remember thinking, oh, my gosh, nobody told my dad what happened. Like, maybe I can get away with that was the very first thought, because I did not really. You know, I'm not. I'm now a dad of four, so I get it. But I. You. You don't really, really get love and grace and mercy. I don't think until you. Until you love something bigger than yourself. And I did not. And I was. After playing baseball, man, that was my dream. I wanted to play ball, and I wanted to be outside, and I wanted friends. And that was. I was chasing me. And I experienced that love. And right behind my dad's love, like moments later, comes my mom. And she's bold. She's this awesome lady still. She took my right hand in hers. She pats my bald head. It's like a train wreck. I'm burned on 100 of my body. 87 third degree. And I look up at my mom and I say, mom, am I gonna die? And she says back to me, this bold question. Do you want to? It's your choice, not mine, John. And I looked up and I said, mom, no, I don't. I don't want to die. Gosh, I want to live. And her response was, Good hun. Then take the hand of God, walk the journey with him and fight like you never fought before. Your daddy and I will be with you every step along the way. But do your part and fight. And on that morning, Sean, like, you know, I didn't, I didn't know what any of this meant, man. I didn't know what amputations were coming, I didn't know what skin grafts meant or debridman. Like I don't know the journey or the science, but I do even as a kid know how to fight and came up in a faith filled house and I knew what it looked like to take the hand of God and just shut your eyes and move on. And that's what we did. And I'm not telling you that it made five and a half months in hospital easy. I don't think there's enough morphine to do that. But I think what those parents did for me on day one made the journey possible.
- [13:01]
C
You know, thank you for diving into that because I think as a young child we can all think of those moments where like dad's gonna kill me, Mom's gonna, Mom's gonna, if, if, if he doesn't kill me, Mom's gonna finish me off. But to have that grace and that love in such a big moment, right? And your parents just. Dude it. Just reading the book, watching the, screening the movie and then listening to you right now on, on first account is like your parents are just special, man. You know, they understood, you know, understanding the bigger picture. It's like what's more important, empower my son or be pissed at him for setting the garage on fire himself, Right? An explosion at my house. I just, they were just a different, different, they're just different.
- [13:51]
B
@Blinds.Com it's not just about window treatments. It's about you. Your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the confidence of know it's done right. From free expert design help to our 100% satisfaction guarantee, everything we do is made to fit your life and your windows. Because@blinds.com the only thing we treat better than windows is you. Visit blinds.com now for up to 50% off with minimum purchase plus a professional measure at no cost. Rules and restrictions apply and still are. My dad passed away on May 30 recently, so that's still part of our story now. But he was different until the very end. On purpose. It was beautiful. Had Parkinson's disease for 30 years, but just Never griped, never, not once in his life, was a victim to a thing that robbed everything from him.
- [14:41]
C
Wow.
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B
There's something to be said in that. So we can come back to that if you want, but my mom is a big reason why he was able to stay at home until the day he died, because she fought for him. She is heroic. You know, we can talk about the time in hospital, like the things she did, I think. And you saw it a little bit in the film. There's a scene when John comes out of the hospital. So this is after five and a half months and after all this work, man. And like they have the homecoming party and the front door shuts and then my mom sets a plate of food in front of me and my sister Amy grabs a fork and starts feeding me because I'm fingerless. I'm a victim. You know, life's hard. So she, she grabs this fork and. And then I hear from her mom, over to my right, Amy, drop the fork. If John's hungry, he'll feed himself, dude. Like, I look at my mom, then back at my sister, I'm like, what are you talking about, man? Like, I'm not going to feed myself tonight or ever. Have you not seen what has happened in my life? Feed me. And then my mom says again, if he's hungry, he will feed himself. And it's. It's a fairly long story, but I'll shorten it. It was about a two hour dinner then of a kid crying and flipping plates and cursing and getting yelled at for cursing and everything else that takes place when you're a child and you're struggling. But by the end of that night, Sean, like, I had figured out a way to wedge the fork between two hands, bend my elbows enough to put food in my mouth the entire time, staring at my mom, thinking, man, I hate this woman, you know, my mom, but I'm eating. So this lady, this leader, wasn't just there, like in that moment of the explosion, like, oh, she said the right thing once. No, man, she did the right thing consistently almost every day of her life to elevate the lives of those around her. And almost none of it was easy. Making a kid cry and fall on the floor and a million things like this, like, that's not easy. The easier thing is to feed the kid, man, get dinner over with. But she was trying to teach me agency. Like, tough love is hard, but it sets you free in the long run.
- [16:51]
C
Well, you know, in the movie it said, I mean, again, probably wasn't word for Word. But she says to your, she said to your sister, if you do it for him now, he'll never learn how to do. We'll be doing it for him forever. Something of that tone. And when we're talking about the support, you know, you're talking about community showing up. You have, you know, and again, look, man, I have three children, okay? And when something goes on with my son or my two daughters and nothing that went on with you, it's like, I just want to rescue. We have this thing nowadays where we want to rescue and, and to help excessively to take that adversity, no tool out of their tool belt, you know, So I can only imagine how hard it was for your mom and dad and your sister to sit there and watch you struggle at that dinner. And they did it out of love. I, I bet you on the inside your parents were crying and screaming inside.
- [17:46]
B
It's so sad, in fact, that a little inside baseball talk here. The reality is that scene in the film, I don't know how long it actually is, but it was two or three times longer. And it, it was testing poorly when they first started showing this because parents struggled. Like, why would you abuse a child? And what those people who are testing this thing had, apparently not the maturity they're fully recognized is the only person being more abused than the child, trust me, was the mother who was breaking inside watching this thing unfold. This isn't fun. It's not abuse. It's freedom. You played ball, man. It's why sometimes you stay after and you run the track. It's not abuse. It's ultimately going to free you to become the best version of yourself. No one wants to do that, neither the coach.
- [18:33]
C
The hard moments, John, the hard moments, that's what makes everybody. And it's like, I look at your story and it's just, you know, a lot of people can say, oh, you know, poor John. I'm like, dude, that built him. Like, that built him the man he is like. And, and granted there's, there's certain challenges that you've gone through, certain challenges you go through every day that I don't have to deal with right now. Like in good Lord willing, I never will, right? Let's just be on it. But it gives me kind of a thing like, well, wait a second. And for people listening, these hard moments, these moments of adversity and absolute potential, death has built you into this amazing author, an amazing husband, a father, and an absolutely kick butt inspirational speaker. You've built something from this and you've inspired you, inspired the world because of the thing that happened to you. And the one thing that I really want to touch on, and then I'll shut up and let you, and let you go and run with this is, dude, this happened. This happened to you, but you did not let it define you. Ultimately, overall, I'm sure there were moments, right? I'm sure there were moments where, like, this is who I am. No, it's something that happened to you. But what you've created because of that, right? Or in spite of it or whatever is, to me, truly the inspirational aspect.
- [20:00]
B
You know, and there's. There's beauty and difficulty in that. So the cool thing and the beauty is my mom and dad and siblings refused to view me differently than they did before January 17th, before I got burned, before I spent five and a half months in hospital, before I went through life for a couple years in a wheelchair or for the rest of it without fingers and scars from my neck to my toes. They refused to view me as less than or victimized or unable to do the dishes or walk the dog. And so what that led to, and this is the. This is sort of the good thing, but also a bit of the rub, is a child who never once looked down at the scars and even acknowledged them. I viewed myself as. As equal with anybody else always, which is really good. But I also never really healed from that time in hospital or the difficulty that came out of it. And that went on when I'm 10, 11, 12, 15, 20, 25, really, until, like, 28, I just. I would either mask up, like, wear long sleeves or be performative, like build businesses and prove to the world that I was worthy or drink too much or a million other ways of proving that I'm normal. And in some regards, when my life began to change in a really healthy, healing way was when I was 28. I was in the back row of a church service. I'm not going to go all evangelical, but this is where it happened. Back row, hungover from the night before. Arms are crossed. I'm looking down. I'm beat down by just difficulties that I don't even have names for in my life. And the pastor said, and for those of you who feel as if you have no talent and if I'm being real with anyone, like, that's how I felt at that time as I'm performing, I was talentless and cut off from. That's how I felt. And he said, listen to me. Your life. And then he goes, your life is a precious priceless gift. You have one job. Say yes to being used for good. And for whatever reason that this, like, line structure just rocked me. I wrote it down. I went to work the following day. And you saw this in the film, this part of it. And I'm just working, and a car pulls up and a lady says, will you speak at my Girl Scout troop? In. In any other day in my life before that, I would have said no, because I'm not a speaker. I'm not going to be defined by my scars or my past. I'm moving forward, thank you very much. I'm not going to talk about it. But the day before, this guy, man in a church service said yes to being used for good. And that awkward yes led to one little speech with a few Girl Scouts, led to another speech, led to a four, a third, a fourth, a fifth, a tenth, a fiftieth, a hundredth, a thousandth. 2700 speeches later. But what happened in each speech is each time out, I got a little bit more comfortable on why my story mattered to someone else and theirs. And when you begin to heal, like, there's an old. There's a guy named Henry Nouwen who wrote, your scars exist because wounds have healed. And he also wrote later on in this book, what is most personal and private is most universal and sacred. So the very things you want to bury deep in the ground are, in fact, once redeemed and embraced and lifted back into the light, the very things that connect you to others. So as I'm. As I'm speaking to a couple Girl Scouts, I wasn't there yet, but to the Rotary Club, a little better Kiwanis, a little better Chamber of Commerce, a prison, a school. And at each time out, became a little bit more comfortable in my own skin. So now that I'm. Dude, I'm free. Like, I'm. I'm not defined by it in a positive or negative lens. I'm just liberated by it.
- [23:53]
C
That's amazing, dude. Like, I. It's such a hard. It. It's. It's such a hard thing for a lot of people to really probably relate to, right? Because, I mean, maybe they had a breakup or something, and that. That takes them on a completely different tangent. They're never able to recover, you know, And. And it may be because, like, whatever the case may be for some people, right, they just choose to be that victim and stay there and live there and die there, really, quite honestly. And to me, that's sad and also begs the question, you know, what's a Support, you know, look like with them, you know, who do they have in their life? And for you, man, you're reading the book and watching the movie, your support. I don't want to go another minute without talking about your nurse that helped you, you know, you know, and. And Jack Buck, man, that was massive. Let's. Let's talk about those two individuals and how they played a part in your recovery.
- [24:56]
B
Yeah. So I will. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna pull off of what you just talked about a moment ago with. I bet there's people listening and viewing who don't even know, like, which. Like, really the extent of what you're talking about. And maybe I do know, though, that when I speak, always there's a book signing line afterwards, and always the first sentence they share with me is, john, it's nothing like your story, but. And then they talk about the divorce, they talk about the abuse. They talk about the bankruptcy. They talk about the cancer diagnosis. They talk about a struggle their kid has in class. They talk about depression that their sister's struggling with right now. They talk about the Republican party or the Democratic Party or the economy. They talk about how this story impacts their life because they, too, have dealt with fires. So I think all of us, man, every one of us has been hit up by that in the past or in the presence. And many people far worse than me, because mine was mostly physical, obviously. But to your next point, the question you're asking, none of it was relational. I had a parent, plural, who were wild about me. I had five siblings who were for me. I had four grandparents who fought for me. I had a class of kids, when I was pushed back into their classroom, who stood up and cheered for me, like, dude, so throughout my whole life, this structure of love has. I've just bathed in it. So. So many of the folks who say, john, it's nothing like you, but they tell me the story of brokenness from childhood or an abuse in their relationship or a million things that, man, I. I don't know how they got over it. So I do think everybody's got a story, and it's worth sharing and it's worth being liberated from. And. And one of the ways to do so, it's either to serve someone else, because some of your listeners and viewers are thinking, dude, like, whatever o' Leary is about to talk about now, I don't have that nurse and I don't have that announcer, and that may be true, so become that person for someone else.
- [26:52]
C
There it is.
- [26:53]
B
That is in Your control. You have no control over who shows up for you. You have complete control over how you show up for someone else. And if you're not sure where to go, go to a food pantry, go to Big Brothers, Big Sisters, get involved at some hospital. Go. And in focusing on someone else, your life will get better. I promise you. I know you interviewed William H. Macy a week ago or so, and Bill played the role of Jack Buck. Jack Buck's life was good. He's a radio announcer, he's a Hall of Famer, he's got eight kids, so it's not like he needs a pet project, okay? The guy is inundated with stuff. And always he come back. Came out of the Depression, served in World War II, came home with a Purple Heart and never forgot the humility and the grace of his life. Always trying to put himself out there to be of service to those around him. So. So the night I was burned, Bill may have shared part of the story with you, but he was at a charity auction. Jack Buck. Sorry, it's weird to talk about, like, a real person and an actor, but the real person, Jack. Jack was at a charity auction wearing a tuxedo and overheard a conversation about a little boy who got burned today in St. Louis and was going to die. Like, what do you do when that happens? And what Jack did is he wiped his mouth, he set down the cup of water or whatever he was sipping on, excused himself. It's a crazy story. Man goes to a burn center, a place he'd never been before. There's one primary, one in St. Louis. It's part of the Mercy system. Goes to the Mercy burn center, takes the elevator right up to the fourth floor, walks in, gowns up, sits down and breaks the silence of my life with the words, kid, wake up. Wow, you are going to live. Keep fighting. John o' Leary Day at the ballpark will make it all worthwhile. Keep fighting. And there's a million reasons why this mattered to me. Number one is I was a huge Cardinal fan, so that that matters. Number two, my eyes were swollen shut. In the movie, they're swollen shut for, like, a day. In reality, they were swollen shut for a couple months. So to hear something that is life affirming was meaningful. And then finally, man, like, I was struggling. I'm in pain. I'm unable to move. I can't speak because of the trach, but I could feel hope. And when your hero, your boyhood idol, Jack Buck, the radio announcer for the Cardinals, comes into your room and sits down next to you and tells you that you're going to live and that once you get out, we're going to have a day to celebrate you. He doesn't have to say it twice, right?
- [29:41]
C
Right.
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B
It's all in, man. And as you know, he does say it twice because he was told on the way out that the little boy was going to die. And in spite of that diagnosis, Jack Buck comes back to the hospital and does it again the following day and the following day and the following day. So, man, I, I don't. Here's what I know. I was a tough little kid with a heart for tomorrow and a strong faith. And I don't think there's a chance in the world I would have made it out of that hospital without everybody else. One of those people being Jack Buck.
- [30:15]
C
Hey, we're going to take a quick break to hear from our Powered by sponsor. We're proud to announce a partnership between White Sands treatment centers and the determined society. With multiple locations across Florida, White Sands provides luxury, top rated addiction treatment. From medical detox and inpatient care to outpatient support and long term after care. Their resort style campuses, expert clinicians and holistic programs create real, lasting recovery. Together, we're committed to bringing hope, resources and healing to those who need it most. White Sands Treatment Centers. That's amazing. That's amazing. I mean, look, as you, as you mentioned, you know, I play ball, right? Like, for me, I'm thinking, okay, if the roles were reversed and my eyes were sold and shut and I'm battling my life, battling for my life to hear an idol come in and hear the voice, like I hear it on the radio, that person telling me I'm going to live and telling me to wake up and came in day after day after day. And it wasn't like he did it for like two weeks. He was in your life. He showed up at your graduation. Like this man dedicated his life to let you know, like, yo, I'm still here. Like, I'm still here and in, in today's day and age. And we kind of talked a little bit, you know, before the show about where society is. There's a massive disconnect. And the one thing that I loved about your story with, with Jack Buck there was like, this man is, you know, World War II veteran, like you said, Purple heart announcer for the Cardinals. You're nine and he's showing up for you, right? And we have a massive disconnect from that in today's society, or maybe, maybe just the visibility of it isn't there Right. But when I just look at that story and I look at everything that he did throughout your life, just showed like who he truly was.
- [32:21]
B
Yeah, man.
- [32:22]
C
And, and how. I mean, to me, it's mind blowing.
- [32:26]
B
Just a little bow on who Jack Buck is.
- [32:29]
C
Yeah.
- [32:30]
B
When he passed away In June of 2002, the radio station that carried him opened up the airways for three hours of uninterrupted, no commercials. Call in and tell us how Jack impacted your life. And I don't know how much time you could fill on the radio. I, I'm not sure I would feel. Three hours. This thing went on, Sean, for three days uninterrupted. And then one more note is one of the individuals who did not call in is John o'. Leary. Because I wasn't telling anybody my story. No one, no one knew what he did for me. There weren't books out about it. We weren't bragging about it on social media. He wasn't bragging about it on the evening news. When he was doing this work. It. It was. He quietly served. You mentioned the hall of Fame baseball. He quietly gave that to me in 1999. Never told a soul. And then on in June of 2 02, he passes away with that crystal baseball tucked neatly in my sock drawer. Because I, I didn't want anybody to know that we were friends. I, I was hiding that because I knew if they saw the ball, they'd say, dude, you get the freaking baseball and it's made out of crystal. And then I would have to say, well, yeah, yeah, I met a guy once named Jack Bark. And then they would say, well, how'd you meet him? And I had zero interest in, in unpacking that. So I, I hid. I hid that man, for decades.
- [33:56]
C
That's wild. And is it true, like in the movie, there was a. I mean, you're saying that you didn't want to go through the story, but was there an actual aspect of that you didn't think you were deserving of that ball?
- [34:07]
B
Oh, man. What do you mean? Is it true? Yes. I still wrestle with guilt around that and feeling unworthy. Come on, man. He's got a son named Joe who probably should have the crystal baseball. Really? He gave it away to a 22 year old college drunk burn survivor. Nobody. Currently unemployed. That's who he gave this ball to. It's such evidence of what happens with generosity when it's. When you just empty it out there and then you keep stepping forward. It's like the book, man. I'm so glad you Read it. I'm so glad you shared that story. When you do something because you know it's going to impact someone's life, and you're not even. You don't even care who, you throw out that one seed, and you just keep stepping forward in life along the way. And then you and I, now eight, nine years later, are having this conversation and you're saying, john, man, years ago, I bumped into this book. Lame cover, lame title, but I bought it anyway.
- [35:03]
C
Dude, it blew my mind. I never said that.
- [35:05]
B
And I'm doing this work today because of that seed that you planted. Jack Buck planted a similar seed in me. Dies years later, I start to speak about it. And then 24 years later, there's a movie coming out starring William H. Macy as Jack Buck, proclaiming the goodness he did that he never told anybody else about. That is awesome.
- [35:32]
C
That is cool. It's cool. You know, the other thing that I really loved about the story was the love story.
- [35:39]
B
Right? Right.
- [35:42]
C
You know, because I want to get down to the one thing that people are probably, you know, thinking. And you asked me, you know, like, hey, you told me before, hey, just if you think you're going too far, just ask the question. Anyway, know you did have physical ailments, right? You don't have any fingers. You're burned all over your body. And I know growing up as a young man, even a man, there's things that I'm insecure about. Right. And we're talking about in college, when we're out, we're drinking. You know, that's when people meet people. You met this beautiful woman, and it's clear, even in the movie, this girl is into you, bro. Like, it's clear. It's like, come on, dummy. Walk through the door, man. Right. What are you doing? And. And you hesitated because you didn't think you were good enough. Why would she like you? Because of the way that you are.
- [36:34]
B
Right. So let's start with her. Her name's Beth. Her full name is Elizabeth Grace. As in the movie, as in real life, my wife is gorgeous. Like, the girl who plays Beth. Her name is Macy McLean. I think Macy's just stunning. Brunette, brown eyes. Like, I just love her, and I love her heart. And maybe the only person more beautiful than Macy is my wife. Beth is just this beautiful girl. And I'm not only talking about her face, like, to meet at a college. This is a true story, man. We met at a college party. And I'm. I've had more than a couple beers, which gives me Enough courage to take her, to say to her, do you want to dance? And she's had probably half of one Bud Light, so it's not really doing much at this point. And she says yes. And then she takes the hand of a guy that has no fingers and never looks down. I mean, can you imagine that? Like, I. I don't think Beth gets enough credit in the film, in my book, in my work, in our life, for being so blind, too broken. Any fool can and does point out what's wrong in others. We're expert at it in media, social media, families, those Democrats, those Republicans, those people. Man, we do a phenomenal job.
- [37:49]
C
Oh, we do. We do great at that.
- [37:51]
B
Beth just grabs on to this busted hand and goes. And so my wife is now an occupational therapist. She was training in college to become one. But I think kind of person drawn into that line of work acknowledges what's wrong and broken, but seeks purposely and perpetually to redeem it and make it better. That's. That is such a cool way to go through life. So I. I was fortunate that out of all the girls at that party, I asked on onto the dance for it was Beth, and she did take my hand and we did become friends. Then I. I knew I out kicked the coverage, so I did not ask her out for a while. We became friends, just like it kind of alludes to in the film. And by the time I built up the courage to ask her up, man, we've been friends for so long that her response in real life and in the movie was like, you're like a brother to me, you know? Oh, man, I don't know what you've heard about Missouri, but it's not true. This was not her way of saying, yes, okay, so this was over, man. Like, it's not happening. That broke my arm proved out what I knew, that I'm unlovable. And then a conversation that happened with my dad in the. In front of the arch, man, where he basically says, you can't always choose the manner in which you walk, but you can always choose the manner in which you walk it. You can't always choose the path that you walk, but you can choose the manner in which you walk it. He said he dropped that truth. And then he talked about this idea of stop focusing on what you get out of something and start focusing on what you can invest into it. And in truth, Sean, I had been so focused on what I get out of Beth or any relationship as they validate and cover up my brokenness. That's What I wanted a girlfriend for, not, not to complete her, as Jerry Maguire might say, but to make me full. It was all selfish, all 100%. And when she fell in love with me, so hinted out in the movie, but this is the true story. It's when I just stopped chasing her at all. Like not even a little bit. I just was like for her, we had fun. We just had a blast, man. I was, I was comfort. Getting more comfortable in my own skin and not trying to get anything from anybody. And that is a very attractive quality in a man or in a woman. I don't mean this arrogantly. When they don't eat you, they just want to be, they just want to be a service. Again, sales, I mean you're expert in sales. When you need a sale, that is a rough place to be on the opposite side of that phone call or table. But when you are so comfortable that you're just there to serve, like, listen, reflect, that's when this stuff happens. So that's true in sales, it's true in life and it's true in this case with John and Beth.
- [40:37]
C
You know, I just, it, it, it really just makes everything flow better because you're in the, the right energy. Right? To your point about sales, it's when you're desperate or when you want that girlfriend or when the girl wants the boyfriend and you can tell that it's a self fulfilling kind of mission. And it's, and it's one sided, it's always met with resistance. It never happens. But when there's alignment, when you're just open and you're just being right, you started being a certain way, you started being you, you got comfortable in you. And in the movie, you know, there was a near life death, death experience to where, you know, she finally grabbed you and gave you that big kiss. Was that somewhat accurate? What, what happened there?
- [41:19]
B
Somewhat accurate? I think if there's one scene that is slightly exaggerated in the entire film, it is the one you're talking about.
- [41:26]
C
Okay.
- [41:26]
B
There was a car accident in Colorado. There was a friend driving. There was a phone call made to my dad. There was an incredible conversation afterwards that is all dead on true. There was a near death experience that night. So that all happened. The thing with Beth is she was recognizing that this guy who had pursued her for years had moved on. I still loved her, but I, I'm, I'm moving on, man. My life, I'm trying to build a business, I'm trying to network. Not in like the, the now sense of it, but Just trying to, like, grow and expand and see how far we can. How many lives we can touch. That's what I was doing, and I was going to do that without her. And I think, again, back to that attractiveness piece. It drew her in. And so we were at dinner at this Little restaurant in St. Louis called Cafe Napoli. We're at dinner there and having a glass of wine. You know, that's what friends will do. And halfway through, she just says, john, every time I'm with you now, I get butterflies. I wish, but I think I'm falling for you. And then she goes, will you date me? And so I, you know, I'm kind of sarcastic. I think I said, like, beth, I'm sorry, I don't date sisters. In fact, I find that. But then, you know, I drooled out the word, like, yes. Yes.
- [42:45]
C
Yeah.
- [42:46]
B
So I. I drove her home that night. That's our first kiss, truly on her doorstep. And it was just this, like, sweet courtship, old school type moment of love, man. And it's so beautiful. So that. That's. That's the story.
- [43:03]
C
It's beautiful. And you have four kids together?
- [43:05]
B
Do you have four kids?
- [43:07]
C
How old are they now?
- [43:09]
B
All of them are teenagers as you and I record this. So 19, 17, 15, and 13. The Premier. Bill, you know, William H. Macy, goes by Billy when he's in town. So Billy was just in town October 2nd for the premiere. What I'll say about William H. Who you had on your show last week, like, he is cool. He's a heck of an actor. He's a good interview. But he's had us out to his house. He. He showed us every room in the house just to show us some cool things that he has going on. He made my son tea just so he could have an experience of what Bill was drinking and, like, told him what, like, what makes good tea, what makes bad tea. Like, the dude's fun and humble and four others. So, yeah, William H. Mace is cool. The kids were hanging out with him last week. John Corbett, all the actors, the director, Sean McNamara, who is a total stud. So we. We. It is so surreal to have a film done about your life, whether you're a teenage kid and they're doing it about your mom and dad primarily, or you're the mom and dad and you're like, how in the world did this happen? How did we get here? And to be honest, like, I don't think we did. I think God has anointed these people around us to draw forward the story. And then hopefully unify a nation and people who feel busted and broken and victimized right now to recognize that even in this moment, they can do good for others and they can take the next right step forward in their journey. And if. If we feel capable of doing those two things, we can change the world for good. I'm not sure Congress can. I'm not sure your neighbor can, because I don't know him or her. But I know you can, Sean, and I know I can.
- [44:53]
C
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Because oftentimes in life, we. We see a massive problem, but we don't know how to fix it. We try so hard to fix it, but what we have to understand is it's the little moments that when you string them all together, that's what makes the ripple in society or the universe. There needs to be more conversations like you and I are having that me and Bill had, that me and my production team have every single day. Because we talk about things that are. That are worldly. We love each other. We're building a massive movement here or family, but there's just not enough of that going on. So it's our job that every interaction that we have with people, even if we're met with hate and resistance, I always respond. Respond with kindness.
- [45:38]
B
Amen.
- [45:39]
C
I always do, because I want them to go, wait a second. I wanted him to come at me so I can start a fight, and he completely just disarmed me. Like, I'll disarm people on YouTube. I'll disarm people on TikTok. Like, you know what?
- [45:53]
B
You're right.
- [45:53]
C
I have my facts wrong. I must have gotten nervous. I make mistakes. Do you ever make a mistake, like, meet him with kindness. Acknowledge when you mess up. But I think the moral of what I'm trying to say is, is the world will heal. There's always going to be good and evil. Let's just be honest, right? It's written that way. But what we're seeing right now in society and on this planet is a spiritual war. And everybody wants to talk about left versus right. No, no, no. It's good receivable. It's good receivable. Point point, blank, period. Like, let's break it down, make it plain for people. And when you can accept that, then you can dive into the word right. You can go to church. You can. You can lean on Christ. Yesterday is really crazy. Is I. You know, I went on a speaking engagement this last weekend, and I was gone. I got home super late Saturday, going into Sunday morning at 1:30 in the morning. And then we had some family things the next day. And then yesterday when I woke up to the gym, I remember pulling up in my truck, being right in front of the gym, super anxious, like. Like debilitating anxiety. And so instead of walking for 30 minutes, and I told myself I'd walk for 30 minutes, I decided to walk for 15 before the gym open. But in the 15 minutes prior, I would dive into the word and I would search things based on anxiety, and it helped me. Massive tangent for the listener. But the point is, you need to give the world what you want the world to be. And sometimes you got to fix some things in your life. And you may have to take God's hand. Okay, well, not may you need to. And you need to walk with him and give it to him, because we can't fix it. We're the mouthpiece, but we can't fix it.
- [47:41]
B
That's so good. I saw a picture up to the right. Well, a lot of pictures. One of them is mlk. And one of my favorite quotes from King is, it's hard for me to like the man who is kicking me in the head when I'm on the ground. And then I realized I don't have to like him. I just have to love him. And I know that sounds so Pollyannish, but right now we are trying to gotcha on every single conversation. And if we can just meet people with love it, it will change the temperature, the tone of in the room and what we do next. That's really important. And the second piece, hearing what you're saying. One of my favorite parts of Scripture is actually just when Jesus puts his arm around the woman at the well. We don't hear in that. In that line whether Jesus was a Democrat or Republican. I'm still trying to figure it out. And we don't really hear what party the woman was with. We know a little bit about her past. We know a little bit about our brokenness. But we also know that in. In my faith view, and by the way, there's room for all of us in this tent. But in my faith view, the author of life puts his arm around a woman and just loves her. And there's a need for this right now. If you want to draw people to your side, quit shouting them down and meet them where they are, and they will be so attracted by you. It goes back to the dating story with Beth. Just love them and watch what happens.
- [49:00]
C
I love it, man. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on, John. It's it's been a real treat for me and I know the audience has gotten a lot out of listening to our conversation. And, and for those of you that are looking for something to do, I'll give you two. I'll give you two. Well, three things. Go follow John Spires on Instagram, go read his book and go see the darn movie. Go see the movie, guys, because you're seeing true love, true connection, true support in this story and in this movie and everything that you've done and how your life has, you know, transpired from and evolved from that day to now is like we said at the very beginning of this, it was about other people. It's about how other people showed up. And for those people that are struggling, one of the biggest takeaways that I got from this man is you're struggling and your life is bad. Well, then go be there for somebody else. Go make somebody else. Life is better. And I just, I just, I can't thank you enough, man. This was absolutely incredible. And I'm super happy we got together, did this.
- [50:05]
B
I'm going to give your listeners and viewers a homework assignment. Go to the film Soul on Fire. Hollywood's a democracy. Tell them we want more films like this. We want more stuff like this. And then the final thing is when you see it at the one of the near end of the scenes when John's getting married to Beth, the girl walking down the aisle is wearing Beth's actual wedding dress. So that's wild. Church where they're married is the church where we were married. Everyone gathered where people gathered at our actual wedding, except for the actors in the front row. And then when the final thing, when they do the dolly shot of the church, they start off on the right, they swift to the left as the girls walking down the aisle. You see John Corbett and Stephanie Shostak, the actors who play my mom and dad, stand up, but right behind them you see this good looking older lady stand. And then you see this man fight to rise. And that's my dad. So in row two, the man portraying grandpa is my actual hero. He was unable to stand due to Parkinson's disease for about a decade, unable to speak. And yet when he heard the director yell the word action, this warrior really, for the final time in his life, grabs the pew in front of him, pulls himself up and it's this image, man. Like it's in the film. I'll have it for the rest of my life of my dad rising. And I think it's symbolic of what we're called to do in our lives. Like my dad, he was in pain that day. He's inaudible that day. He can't really swallow that day. And he sure can't stand that day. And yet, when given the command, Upright, baby. Let's go. So I hope you all enjoy the film Soul on Fire. And, Sean, this has been just a treat, man, spending time with you. I feel like I'm leaving a friend.
- [51:51]
C
Well, our friendship's just starting. The fun part about this is I can send you a message with my number, and we can connect and we can stay in touch and do some stuff together. Cool. Because I think that there's some synergy here, and it'd be really great to help change the world with you. But I want to acknowledge what you just said real quickly, because that gave me chills. See, I didn't catch that in the movie or I didn't catch that. So the two things. She's wearing your wife's actual wedding dress, and your dad stood up that day. That. That the next time I'll watch that movie because I've seen the movie. I've got the screener from Sony, but I will go see it in. In the theaters because I do want Hollywood to understand that more films like this need to be out there because they serve an actual purpose.
- [52:38]
B
Right?
- [52:39]
C
They serve a purpose. And it'd be. I'd really love to see the moment where your dad stood. So that's pretty dang cool, man. Pretty cool, man.
- [52:47]
B
I appreciate you. Thanks, Sean.
- [52:49]
C
Absolutely, my brother. For the audience, listen, the assignment's very simple. Go watch the movie, read the book, right? Follow John o' Leary and, you know, keep. Keep tabs on what he's doing on his tours. Go see him speak, and watch this man play piano at the end of his shows, which I can't believe we didn't even cover. But, I mean, that's just. That's crazy to me. But. But, look, share the show with somebody, you know, love and trust that needs a little uplift, that's having a hard time in their life, and watch them flourish and ask them how you could support them. And maybe just sending them the show is the support they need to get out of the victim mentality into the victor. John o', Leary, thank you so much, my brother. Much love for you and for the audience. Until next time.