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Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset
Remembering Charlie Kirk with Dr. Gina Loudon
01:02:27
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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. There was a human life that we saw leave right before our eyes. I think what we saw with Charlie Kirk was mortifying. Two daughters, a wife, a mother coming home and their 3 year old wanting to know where daddy is. And Erica having to say he's on a business trip with Jesus so we could afford your blueberry habit. What pains me so much is the hatred that's going out in the media. I respected that he was speaking his truth, trying to help other people. And I just feel this is such a big loss. I don't care. Left, right, middle, doesn't matter.
- [01:01]
B
Charlie would say it's a tale as old as time. Evil hates good. If you are good, you will be persecuted in this life. It's the promise of scripture. That's why our hearts yearn for something so much bigger. That's why we feel so empty when we're distant from God. That's why life seems meaningless without him. It's the secret sauce. And Charlie discovered it. And when you know it, you feel this burning compulsion to share it. And he did that so well.
- [01:31]
A
Well, guys, Today I have Dr. Gina Louden with us. Her resume speaks for itself. And you're going to see how high powered and amazing she is on this in this episode. But today we're going to do something a little different. Guys, I've been getting a lot of requests and questions of when am I going to speak about Charlie Kirk? And I, I said to myself, I really want to, but I wanted to do it in a medium that I could be myself, I could be authentic and be vulnerable. And for me, that wasn't going to social media and flipping the camera around. It was having a meaningful conversation. So without further ado, we're going to remember Charlie Kirk today and everything he stood for and the amazing individual he was with. Dr. Gina Louden, welcome to the show.
- [02:12]
B
Yeah, thank you for having me. A huge honor to be here. Congratulations on the huge success of your show and, and thanks for taking the time to remember Charlie.
- [02:22]
A
Well, thank you. And absolutely, you know, I look at individuals like you that have done really well in their broadcasting career and in the media, you know, and I'm just, you know, five years into this and starting to, you know, get some momentum And I'm really enjoying, you know, we talked off camera about, you know, making friends with people that we admire and potentially people that we go pasty their concerts and, you know, well, that's the one thing that I really truly love about this business, is that you can really dive into human connection if the energies match and, you know, values align. So I just, I just appreciate having you here. And, you know, we'll. We'll make sure to set up a good tent in our backyard for you when you come visit.
- [03:04]
B
Yes, thank you. I appreciate it so much.
- [03:08]
A
But, you know, America is in shambles right now. Regardless of what people believe or what is what. I think it's neither here nor there. I think what we saw with Charlie Kirk was mortifying. A dog, two daughters, a wife, you know, a mother coming home and their, their three year old wanting to know where daddy is. And, you know, Erica having to say, he's on a business trip with Jesus so they could, so he could afford your blueberry habit. You know, it. It's heartbreaking any way you slice it. And what pains me so much is the hatred that's going out in the media. Where are you sitting on this as far as you know? Because for me, I didn't ever get the chance to meet Charlie Kirk, but I feel like I knew him. I consumed his content all the time. I respected that he was speaking his truth. Right. And trying to help other people really defined what they believed in. And I just feel this is such a big loss. I don't care. Left, right, middle, doesn't matter. I just feel like there was a human life that we saw leave right before our eyes.
- [04:19]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Well, Charlie would say it's a tale as old as time. Evil hates good. Evil's always going to hate good. If you are good, you will be persecuted in this life. It's the promise of scripture. And, and that all holds true. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. When you're born, you could have been born, you know, caveman times, it would have been the same thing. Evil will always hate good, and it will always be manifest in a fallen world. And that's why our hearts yearn for something so much bigger. That's why we feel so empty when we're distant from God. That's why life seems meaningless without him. And, and so, but the, I think the, the bigger takeaway from this, and I think the thing that Charlie would, would want us to take away, knowing Charlie pretty well, is that that oft cited scripture that says, but God uses all things together for the good of those who love him and who live and are called according to his precepts. And so that's the secret to life. It's the secret sauce. And Charlie discovered it around the time, I think, that he married Erica and before they had their two beautiful children. And he. He found out that this is really the secret to life. And he was absolutely. He just wanted everybody to know. He. He wanted to share what he knew with the audience that he loved, because he knew that life could be so much better for them if they would just understand this. This one truth. And. And so I think we. We cling fast to that truth, Sean. It's all we can do for one thing. And. And we. We discover the awesome irony that is the peace that surpasses all understanding that guards our hearts and our minds in Christ Jesus when we accept him. And I think that's exactly how Charlie would respond. I don't mean to speak for him at all, and I never could. But just me guessing and me having talked to him over the years about these things, that's. That's the truth. And when you know it, you feel this burning compulsion to share it. And he did that so well.
- [06:39]
A
He did, and he never came off of it. You know, you hit the nail on the head when you talked about evil versus good. You know, when I look at this and everything going on in our world, there was a school shooting that day. Then the next day, the Naval Academy was on lockdown to an active shooter. And by the way, one of my former athletes was in lockdown while there. And, you know, talk about scary. Talk about scary that somebody that I knew or know so well is hiding in a locker room, probably scared for their lives. It. It points to one thing. Evil versus good.
- [07:15]
B
It really does it. It permeates today. And, you know, again, going back to scripture, and I don't mean to sound like a preacher here, I would never. Could never be a preacher, but it is my solace. And we are in such a time where we really need it. And, you know, the Bible is really clear about how we're supposed to digest all of this bad information. And it says, focus on that which is good, which is pleasant, which is beautiful, which is righteous, which is lovely. Focus on those things. So what can we focus on out of your student being locked in a lockdown, a locker room? What can we focus on? Watching our friend that we knew and loved be shot and killed, assassinated and martyred right in front of our very eyes in such a gruesome gory way, like something out of a movie. It's still so hard to sleep at night because it flashes through my mind. But what we can focus on is what is good, how God is using this. What is righteous and lovely about this? What is righteous and lovely about this is a man who was just searching really for the highest truth his whole life. And in that search he came across an amazing woman, Erica Franzva, who he, he met her, wanted to interview her for a job. I'm sure you've heard the stories and ended up saying, never mind about this job. I think I want to date you. And, and I love that. I love that we've all been in that situation where you're interviewing someone for a job and they end up meaning so much more to you. And, and then the beautiful children that, that he raised and his call on us to go forward and, and to multiply, I mean that is scriptural and we've really gotten away from it. I think in our culture. I think there's such an attitude. I think the emasculation of men has paid, has contributed to this largely.
- [09:14]
A
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- [09:52]
B
White Sands Treatment Centers Feminism Radical feminism has done all sorts of horrible things to pollute young minds. And I had, you know, I have five children as you might know and adopted one one by the blessing of adoption, I like to say. And he happens to have down syndrome and he's amazing. Biggest blessing my whole family will tell you. He's all of our favorite. No one gets jealous even though we adopted him. No one gets jealous when I say Sam is my favorite and he's everyone's favorite because he understands these simple truths that Charlie talked about his whole life. Sean. He understands every single thing I'm saying and he's non verbal but he understands all of this and he can love you with a Christlike love and he sees the good in people, not the bad. And he focuses on the good and not the bad. And you know, it's such an important message that Charlie carried to us to go get married, marry young, have a big family. I did all this by mistake. But you know what? It's worked out really, really well for me. I got married my senior year of college, and I didn't have children for a few years because I was buying into all the feminist stuff that my professors had told me in college, and I was going to grad school and getting my PhD and doing all the things. So I didn't have children right away. But then a friend of mine from church said to me, you need to have a lot of children, have more children. That's the way God refines you, is by giving you children. And the Bible is very clear about this. It refines men this way, and it definitely refines women this way, too. And it sculpts us, you know, that he's the potter, we're the clay. It sculpts us into what God wants us to be. And when he's done with us, guess what? We go on to him. And I think he was done with Charlie. And Charlie went on and maybe I'll be so blessed to live a life so meaningful that. That young. We're ready to meet the face of our Lord and Savior.
- [11:53]
A
Those are all so many great things that you just mentioned, right from down to the children shaping us. You know, I find myself more present since last week, and I always prided myself on being present with my wife and my beautiful children. You know, I have three children. I have two daughters and a son. And over the last week. Thank you. Over the last week, I've really found myself emotionally regulating, much better, because I don't know when the other shoe's gonna drop. I just know that I have to be better in the moment. And it brings up a great. There's a couple. There's a couple things I want to circle back to. Gina, because you said something on. Focus on the good, right? Focus on the good things that are happening. And, you know, one thing that I want to just be open to you and to my audience that are watching and listening is I'm struggling right now. Not in. In my belief, not in that, you know. You know, Jesus is here for us. Like, I'm a believer. Like, I. I know who my savior is. I'm having a hard time shaking it, right? I'm having a hard time shaking the fear of my wife and my three children going off to school every day. It's really, really hard, and it's heavy. And this morning, you know, I woke up at my normal 4am went to the gym, got my workout done and my sauna done. And usually that. That will remove Any type of anxieties that I have. And this morning I felt extra, extra heavy in my mind and my heart. And, you know, so I threw all my casting crowns. You probably know who they are, right? I love them. They're great. And it really just put me in that good space. But then immediately all these thoughts started running through my mind to a point where I'm getting the kids ready for school. And at one point, I had to walk away because I literally went and cried. I literally went and cried because I was so terrified. And it's just so hard for me as a man to, okay, go to school right now, not ever knowing. And. And thankfully, they're in a prep school that's pretty locked down, cross my fingers. But it. But it's focusing on the good. Yes, but just so many thoughts right now are beating me. And, you know, I don't want to say evil's winning, but it's a sheer indication that I need to lean more heavily on God.
- [14:29]
B
I think, Sean, that probably your audience is feeling a lot of the same way right now. And grief comes in waves, and grief is different for everyone. I think that's really important to note. You know, I've. I've counseled. That's my actual profession. That's what I would do if I didn't do tv. That's my training anyway. Uh, and so I've counseled a. A lot of people through all sorts of grief, and I can tell you that everything you're saying is completely normal. And I think we need to be okay with that, too. God gives us tears and gives us the grieving process to cleanse us and bring us back to Him. So you. You can't indict yourself for feeling what is human to feel. Remember, there's nothing we've been through that Jesus himself didn't walk through first. So there's reassurance in that, right, that it's okay. Jesus. Jesus wept. We know that. And he grieved when he lost friends, too. We know that. And so all of that is okay. But I also think that God has not given us a spirit of fear. Right. And that's really clear as well in the Bible. And so the fear part is where we need to be confrontational with our own minds and with our own spirit spirituality, which it already sounds like you're doing. So it's. It's not the grieving that's the problem. It's when then it turns and in any way you let that evil control you that you have to take charge of. Again. And the way you do that, I think sometimes for me it's as simple as I just whisper the name Jesus. I just whisper it wherever I am. I just, you know, whisper that sound to myself. It can be so calming. And even the word Yeshua I think is also a very calming way as somebody pointed out. Some psychologist who's a Christian somewhere that I was studying pointed out that if you, if you say the word Yeshua, it sounds very much like a breath. Like the first breath and the last breath we take are going to sound very much like the word Yeshua. And, and, and those sorts of things can be really helpful I think also being really careful what we consume. And I'm not saying I totally disagree with people who say stay off of social media, let the police do their job, don't be critical of the investigation. 100% disagree with that. I think we hold them accountable and I think we need to look at inconsistencies we've seen. We see we need to ask questions like why do we have no information on Butler, Pennsylvania and the attempted assassination of our president? Why do we still know nothing about that shooter? I think we need to be critical thinkers, the most critical of thinkers. We need to be held accountable for what we do see that we don't speak about. And so I have no problem at all with that sort of consumption. But it's where my kids call it doom scrolling. It's where we're doom and we already have some answers or we already have formulated our questions. That's where we drop back. I love that Charlie kept the Sabbath. I think that's really special that he did that I would do that too. I'm going to be very honest with you, but with five children of varying ages who are doing adult things out there, I don't feel like I can ever turn my phone truly off. That I have pretty much committed to myself to get a second phone which I've been putting off for years so that my kids have my number at all times and I'll turn off the other phone. And I think that we do need to drop back and take times. You know, someone said to me, I was making this argument, well I can't keep the Sabbath because I, you know, I have five children and they're making adult decisions and living in some cases adult lives and I have to be there in case they need me. And someone said to me, well why don't you take them on a media free vacation? And I thought, wow, that, that's an incredible idea. I don't know that I'll pull it off because they're the kind of jobs and things where they have to be available, you know, to their clients and whatever. But, but I do think we all need to consider what that means to us that Charlie did keep the Sabbath. Jesus certainly kept the Sabbath. And I think we can find some approach to that end and that goal at least. So I think that's important and I think it will take down the fear level a little bit. It's when we change what we do that evil is winning. Right?
- [18:46]
A
That's a good point. And you know, to, to your other point of it's okay to feel that way, you know, Jesus wept. I find myself when I'm feeling this way and someone asked me, how you doing? I'm honest. They got to the studio today and my team's like, how are you feeling? Like, man, I'm just feeling heavy. You know, I put my face in it because I don't want to run from it. I don't want to be a runner and I want to communicate with people. This is how I'm feeling. Because at the end of the day, you never know who you're giving courage to to be open and honest with how they're feeling. And I think the world is clearly lost sight of that right now. I mean, look at everything obviously going on. We're completely desensitized from normal human emotions. And you mentioned radical feminism earlier. I do want to touch on that. I always hesitate to go back, you know, five minutes prior, but I think it's super important because you talked about college professors with PhDs telling you what you need, telling you what you don't need. How much of you know the radical feminism or just the teachings in the upper level schools is removing the masculinity for men?
- [19:56]
B
Almost all of it, almost 100% of it. I taught at a well known Baptist university and they were indoctrinating emasculation and feminism and all the rest of the things. So much so that I had to, had to leave. And so no school is immune. And it's a big mistake to think, and I'm not speaking to you directly because I know you mentioned your kids were in a school that you were happy with and that's fantastic. But you can't take your finger off of them. You have to keep your hands in it all the time because guess what, it's parents like you that will hold them accountable. Kids can't hold teachers accountable. That's up to parents. And that goes all the way to the university level and beyond that, I would say we're paying the bills. So, and that's even if your kid is at a state school and they have a full scholarship, you're still paying the bills because if you pay taxes, guess where your money is going. So you take authority in that God has given you that authority. And, and God only gets upset with us, at least according to scripture, in where we don't take dominion, where he's given it, you know, that which God gives you to do. Do it with all your might. I tell my children this all the time. I don't care if you are a lollipop hander out or on a street corner and that's your job, do it with all your might because that's where he works and that's where he will expand your territory. And so it is our job to hold teachers accountable. But I will, I will go one step farther because this is what I do. And that is, I would say if you can, if there's any will in you, if there's a still small voice that whispers to you, homeschool your children. And I say this with all deference because it was a hard decision for my family. It was a very hard decision. My husband was in the Senate. I'm always writing books in my off time. When I'm not either studying for my next degree or whatever I can do, I am home writing books or articles or things like that. So my time to myself I can rationalize is very important to me because I need to know that I did all I could to save my kids country for their future. So I can totally rationalize not having time to homeschool. But guess what? I did. There are more than 2,000 curricula available out there for homeschooling. And the most important thing about homeschooling isn't even shielding your children from the dangers that you that they might encounter in the school setting or from the institutionalization mentality that comes with any school. I don't care what it is. When you're saying get in line, guess what you're telling kids. I mean, that's a communist idea. That is not a freedom idea. And so all of those things, be quiet at this time, go to lunch at this time, exercise at this time. It doesn't matter how good the school, how well intentioned, right? You're teaching them communist principles. And so I have a problem with all of it. But none of that, all of that pales in comparison to the one thing that is the most important thing. About homeschooling to me, and that is holding onto their hearts. I had a really good friend, same friend that told me, keep having babies, Keep having babies. And I thought she was crazy, but I did it because she was my best friend at my church at the time, and I loved her. She had 10 children, and I was like. And I loved her family, and I loved the way it worked, and I loved how they supported each other and grew each other. And I wanted that for my children. I'm an only child, by the way, of two only children. So having a lot of children, homeschooling. None of this is in my. None of this was on my bingo card, Sean, I can assure you. But. But I listened and I watched and I watched these children, and I realized they were really different. And I knew I would endure sharp criticism from everyone in my family, from everyone in my husband's family, certainly from everyone in society, because my oldest daughter right now just turned 30. So this is a long time ago when I was considering pulling her and doing this right, But I did it. And the most important thing is that you hang on to their hearts. And once you have their hearts, it's very hard for someone else to wrestle that away. Be it a pursuant spouse, a pursuant potential spouse, be it a professor, be it a boss, be it a bad influence, friend. Once you have their hearts, it's really funny how they come back. And again, you go back to scripture, Train up the child in the way he should go, and when he's old, he will not depart from it. It's absolutely true. Abraham Lincoln was homeschooled with nothing except a Bible and one other book, And I can't think what it was. Uh, but that's it. By candlelight, by the way. Um, you think we don't have time. Have you watched anyone try to live the life that a woman lived back then? And yet his mother took the time to create Abraham Lincoln by homeschooling him by candlelight. Imagine that for a moment. And. And so when you think of that, you realize, yeah, I could probably pull that off. And so I realize that it's not for everyone. And I really don't mean to make anybody feel bad for the choices they've made. And there are good schools, good teachers, good programs out there. But. But I would say consider it. I would say consider it. And I would say never shame someone for it. Or bring up the S word, the socialization word, because let me assure you of one thing. It's much, much harder to socialize children who are in the same room with their siblings 24 hours a day that they live with, they come home to. That is a form of socialization that takes a finesse of learning how to get along with people that you're with all the time. Much harder than when you are in one class and you go to a different class and you go to different class, and you don't have to deal with the same people all day. And if you don't like somebody, you just don't take a class with them. Right. Very different. And. And, and it does teach a sort of socialization that I think is more valuable in some ways. And they're going to. They're going to meet people. You don't have to worry. They'll meet people.
- [25:40]
A
You know, first of all, I don't think you're trying to make people feel bad. I think you're telling your truth, and I think that's the beautiful part about America. And I agree with you. You know, for many years, you know, the homeschool kids were labeled as weird, right? And you know, that negative personification of them, right? Especially in sports. You knew who the homeschool kid was on your baseball team. Like, you knew it, man. You knew it.
- [26:04]
B
Yeah.
- [26:04]
A
And. And, you know, I would, you know, you saw me chuckling a little bit when you talked about socialization, because one of my biggest things about homeschooling over the years was, what about socialization? What about interaction? But see, now there's so many extracurricular activities, you know, for. For children that are homeschool, can still go play sports, can still do those things and socialize and be a part of things. Whereas in the. In the past, they. They really. It was harder. It was a special waiver, and it was just a pain in the butt to get a, you know, a child approved for. You know, we live in Florida, so the fhsa, all right, the high school athletics, it was more difficult. But I have to be very careful because I don't know if anybody listens in administration to this show, but I. I said to my wife, I'm like, I think it's time to start thinking about this. I was like, in fact, I know it's time to start thinking about this. I'm more than open to it. If I could snap my finger right now, it would be done. So. So thank you for that. Because it's something that I'm truly, truly. It's just like this turbulent thing going on in my soul is like, I feel this is the right way to go. And so for me, I am working through that. We're having multiple conversations in our household, right? And, and I just think for, for our family, I, I want this to happen sooner than later because I, I, you know, hold on to the children's hearts. That's the biggest thing. Like you said, they, you know, we talk about social media, we talk about all these other things that are happening, right? Like, there's some socialization in schools that I don't want my children to be around. I mean, let's, let's, let's think about that. Like, if it's socialization, if it's socializing with the kids, like, neat, cool. Go do extracurricular things. Go do gymnastics, Go do basketball. Go do football. Go do baseball, you know, go dance. Go do music. I don't care what it is, you know, socialize with others, others and interact that way. But holding onto the child's heart, I think is so important because you see the, the rabbit hole these kids go down. Like your, your kids are telling you doom scrolling. I, there's, there's kids that. I. Here's a crazy story. I took my son go karting, like, a month ago, and we had the best time, and I took my phone out of my pocket one time. That was a. Take a picture of me and my son and send it to my wife, right? So she could see kind of like we were having fun and then it was gone. But there's these teenagers, you know, and they don't know any different, right? And I'm not, I'm not slamming them. I don't know what it's like to be a teenager now. It's truly different. I don't know fully what these kids go through, but they're driving the Go Karts and they have their phones out doing live videos. One cart, one car crashed into another car. And I looked at my son, I said, hey, bud, you know what? He's like, oh, yeah, they're on the phone. I go, but, but you got to go deeper than that. If that was a real car, they'd be dead. I was like, and if you don't think they're doing that in the real car, you're wrong. They are. It's like it has this hold of them, Gina. It's, I mean, and you know, we're in the business, right? Social media is important to what we do, right? It's. It's content. We get our ideas out, we display what we're doing. It's. It's just the highlight reel. It's not the Real, but it's the highlight reel of what we're doing and what, and what we have going on. So, like, I understand it to a point, but there's even. Sometimes I'll look at my phone like, oh, my God, I've been on this way too long. But the children see things. Like my son told me, like I was talking to my wife. I was trying to talk about it in code because he's 11, you know, and my one daughter's nine and my other daughter's six, and he goes, what are you talking about? I was like, oh, nothing. Something bad, really bad happened two days ago in America. He's like, oh, Mr. Charlie Kirk. I said, yeah, man. Like, how did you. He's like, oh, on my school computer. I turned it on. It was on the msn. Bottom line, it's like, these kids can't get away with it. And my kids don't have social medias. They don't have phones yet. They're. They're too little, in my opinion. I'm, I won't, I won't do it. These kids will not have a smartphone until they're in high school. Like, they can have a flip phone in eighth grade. So I know where they're at. Right? But, but imagine like I, I can't even. Like there's a, a 12 year old somewhere or even a 10 year old somewhere in America right now that got on social media that day and saw the actual video that you can't see on mainstream media.
- [30:34]
B
They've all seen it. All seen it.
- [30:36]
A
Yeah, I saw it once and it was sent to me and I said, there's no way that has to be AI. There's no way this happened. But to think that kids saw this.
- [30:51]
B
Yeah, yeah. And some of them saw it in real time, which is really sad. We had someone on our show today that, that was there in the front row when it happened. I can't even imagine. Yeah, I can't even imagine. I want to go back to one thing you said about the, about the S word, as we call it, the socialization word. And I just want to be real transparent with you and with your audience. You know, my kids and I today, we joke about, about the gaps. We call them the gaps. We say there are gaps. Like whenever we do something stupid, we're like, well, we are a homeschool family. There are gaps. And by the way, most of my children did take a year and go to school. I wanted them to see what it was like. Every single one of them begged to come Back home. And I want to say another thing. I worked this whole time, got two master's degrees and a PhD. I've written 18, 19, 20, I don't know, around 20 books at this point. Some of those are children's books, so don't get too impressed. But some of them aren't. Some of our true, you know, research documented.
- [31:45]
A
It's still impressive. It's still impressive for sure.
- [31:48]
B
So, so I'm just saying. And that's not, that's not to brag because really God inspires, you know how he does. Like, my, my two sons moved out and moved down the road when my youngest son turned 18. And, and I'll tell you what, that empty nest prompted a lot of this writing. So much of this is very recent. I have a lot of books coming out this year. And that's why, otherwise I was going to drive them nuts. They're like, mom, please go back to something. Do something.
- [32:12]
A
Do something, Mama, do something.
- [32:14]
B
But there are gaps, you know, you, you are not going to my kids. Now, our favorite dinner conversations are sitting around the table with the kids telling me about being at a baseball game in the dugout, and somebody said something that was, you know, either like a racial slur or a cuss word or something that they shouldn't be talking about sexually or something like that. And my kids are like, they don't know. They don't know what it is. And they, and they were embarrassed, you know, but honestly, if that's the kind of socialization that my kids had to have, I'm kind of okay with that, John. And yeah, and, and so, yeah. Were there some difficult moments for them because they, they didn't know? Um, yes, absolutely. They make really funny stories in adulthood though, let me tell you that. And we bond over those stories today. So I decided we were going to have these dinners and we were going to. And actually was one of my kids ideas, and they said, hey, mama, why don't we go back to having family dinners again? You know, And I'm like, well, you guys are, most of you are out of the house now and it means you coming back. They're like, we'll do it, we'll do it. And when we can do it, we will do it. We'll all bring stuff and we'll all help, but let's go back to having our family dinners once a week. And I'm like, what a great idea. So we sit down to dinner and we, we do this first one, right, like last week. And, and I kept having to Say to my husband, honey, get off your phone. Honey, get off your phone. The kids were willing to put their phones down. My husband kept forgetting and taking a business text or whatever. So, you know, here. Nobody's perfect in all of this, is what I'm trying to say. And you can make all the best decisions with all your best heart forward, right? Leaning into God the whole time. And at the same time, you can really screw things up. And I have screwed plenty up and made plenty of mistakes and a lot of errors by omission, right? And my kids let me know about it for sure. So there's no perfect answer. We're all, I tell my kids, put on my tombstone, she died trying because I'm. That's what's going to happen. I'm going to still die trying. Because to accomplish and to be satisfied in your achievement is to not be seeking the heart of God, right? It's always about raising a higher standard. It's always about trying to figure out how you can do better. It's always about productivity and moving things forward and looking to God every step of the way and acknowledging the mistakes you've made and the shortcomings you have and building on the strengths that God gave you. And so that's all we're all doing. Like there's no difference. People say to me, and I'm sure they say this to you, too, oh, my gosh, you must be so busy. I say, I'm just like you. I'm just as busy as you. I'm just as not busy as you, right? We're all. It's. It's life. It's what happens to us. The point of life, though, I think, is the key here, if you can keep in mind that the entire point of life is sculpting us to. To stand in the face of God, to look God in the eye and have him say, well done, good and faithful servant. If that's your goal, then you. You're doing fine and give yourself a break and cut yourself slack and let yourself grieve and let yourself make mistakes with your children, because you will. There is no perfect parent. There is no perfect schooling. There's no perfect pastor. There's no perfect president, by the way. There's no perfect thought leader. Even though Charlie was good, he wasn't perfect. And he would have been the first to tell you that. And I think that social media, while I believe it's very necessary in today's society, it paints this picture of these perfect lives, these people out there doing all of These fancy, amazing, glamorous things. Nobody's life is like that. That is a lie from the pit of hell. And you need to know that going in. And you need to keep that in perspective and you need to focus on what it is that God's given you that you can do. Well, at least this is how I try to live my life. And it keeps me happier and it keeps me more content and it keeps me continuing in the fight. So that would be my best advice. You didn't ask for it, but there you go.
- [36:04]
A
I love it. Thank you for that. You know I love it. Thank you, Gina. You know, it's, it's crazy because none of us, you're, like you said, none of us are perfect. We make mistakes consistently. I, I probably made five of them today already. Right, But I think not catastrophizing a mistake is super important as a parent because you want your children to know that it's okay to make a mistake and they don't have to be perfect in an imperfect world, you know, and.
- [36:30]
B
The thing, something you said was so important. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I just want to say something you said about the authenticity in that is really important. I have a counselor friend who said the words, if you take any situation, any situation, and you can be two things, kind and honest. Doesn't matter what the situation is. If you can do those two things, honesty is the really hard one. Pretty easy to be kind. Honesty, authenticity, that you mentioned is really hard. But that goes with our children too. Sometimes we don't want them to see our mistakes because we think somehow then they're not going to believe in us as parents. But listen, if you don't point out your mistakes to your children, guess what? Someone will. And so it's very important to own that, be authentic in that and, and to be honest with them. And even if that means you don't know where to go from there, that honesty, that authenticity with our children is critical. Now, does that mean that we tell them things that aren't child appropriate? Of course not. You know, if you've done something in your marriage or you did drugs and you have a three year old, that child does not need to know that yet when it's age appropriate, it's important to have that level of honesty and authenticity. And forgive me for interrupting you, but you, you said that, and I wanted to emphasize that because I thought it was so important.
- [37:46]
A
No, thank you. And, and again, it's a, it's an open conversation. You don't have to apologize. I welcome it because it's great dialogue, right? And when I look at my job as a father and a husband is to always, always be accountable for my flaws and my mistakes. I just think it, it shows again. It shows the kids and it shows my wife that he's present, he's open, he wants good dialogue. And you mentioned family dinners. And this is something that drives me crazy. It drives me crazy. I've, you know, seen multiple situations where everybody's home and a family and it's dinner time, they get their plates and they go to the other room. Every single meal in my house, Gina. I am with my children in the morning when my wife is getting ready for work. She's upstairs getting ready. I'm downstairs, I am doing the breakfast, I am doing their snacks. You know, after my workout, I'm drinking my coffee at the, at the kitchen island with them, and they're eating and I'm talking to them. It could be something simple. How'd you sleep? Yeah. What are you looking forward to today? What do you have going? Like, what are you not looking forward to? Let's work through that. Because it opens as dialogue and then dinnertime, that's sacred to me. And I know my children are young in my world, might get blown up when they're, you know, 13, 14, 16 years old and they're off doing their thing. But for me, I want. They're not going to be little forever. My wife always tells me this. There's times, you know, was immature in fatherhood that I would get really stressed and really anxious and like, I just don't have the capacity right now. And she goes, they're not going to be little forever.
- [39:29]
B
Right?
- [39:30]
A
They're not. And for her to hold me to that. And yeah, I'm noticing it every day. I'm noticing this every day. My children are growing up right before my eyes. My youngest is already almost 7 years old, who, by the way, last week, and we have not even spoken about it. I want to do homeschool my 6 year old. And so. And that's kind of what, you know, was after, you know, Charlie Kirk. And after that happened and I was already kind of in my mind, like, this is the route I want to go. And then my daughter, randomly. Sometimes I think my daughter, I mean, my, my youngest has this emotional intelligence, this, this energy feel for everything. And like, she is, she's a lot like my wife. I joke with him. It's probably not the best joke. I go, are you guys witches? Are you witches? Because, like, I Like, you know, things before they happen, they're very. They're very in touch.
- [40:32]
B
Yeah, that's. That's beautiful, though, that they're that in touch. And it's beautiful that your child. You know, out of the mouths of babes. There we go. Scripture again. And I'm sorry I sound like Pastor Gina this morning, and I would never be that. And don't. Don't want to be that. But. But it's just. It's. I think it's just very much on my heart right now, and it's really true. You know, my son said something to me the other day. He was talking about somebody. He had gone on. On Fox News and said, when. Remember when that. That kiss happened? And then the people kind of ran and hid at that sporting event.
- [41:01]
A
Oh, the. The Coldplay. The Coldplay thing. Yeah, that was back in. Yeah, that was back in July. Yeah. Yeah.
- [41:08]
B
Yes. Well, my youngest son, Beau, who. Who does make appearances on TV now and then he had gone on Fox News and said, you know, adultery is bad, and I'm just going to call it out right here. And it was a primetime Fox. I'm like, honey, I understand how you feel, but you understand that much of the audience, many of our friends, many of your friends are in that moment, and you need to be careful about how you present, you know? So we were having this talk, and he said, you know, Mama, here's what I don't understand. Like, people believe that God's going to bring you the perfect person for you. He said, God doesn't bring you the person you're supposed to love. God gives you the love to love the person you're with. And I was like, you're 18. Like, how, what. How did you even come up with this? But that's brilliant. And if you really do believe in God, that then God can do things like give you the love to love the one you're with. And I think, you know, kids, they keep us honest, and God will speak to us directly through them, which is another great reason to have them as close to you as you possibly can. And something you said struck me. I actually brought tears. And I didn't cry on tv. I've done that enough this week. Thank goodness I didn't cry this time. Full on.
- [42:17]
A
Done it. I like when people cry on my show. It's great.
- [42:21]
B
Well, something you said really did, because, you know, we've all seen the Instagram videos where they say, when is the last time? When is the last time you'll carry your child to bed? You know, I can't even get through without talking about it. But, I mean, without crying. But, you know, when is that last time? When is the last time you'll kiss your spouse goodbye? When is the last time you'll talk to your mother on the phone? When is the last time you'll carry your child to bed, read them a book. All the things that, especially in young parenthood, frustrated me so much, you know, all of the training and the. Just the repetition of it. And I'm not really a good person with patience or repetition or any of that. But what I wouldn't give to go back to a day where a kiss on the forehead could make their problems go away, because it can't now. And, and, and those kinds of things, those kinds of moments to, to stop and appreciate them and realize that that is what life is really about. That it is the moments, right? It's not the big vacations that are lavish and expensive. It's not the weddings, right? It's not, it's not the proms. It's not the football game where they won or lost. Those are not the important things in life. It's the little moments in between that we take completely for granted until they're gone. And then they're the moments we wish we could go back to the most.
- [43:36]
A
I want to share one with you and the listeners right now. I would give anything to go back when my son was a baby because I wasn't the father that I am now. I mean, I was always there, but I didn't have the level of patience. I was, I was rough around the edges, Gina, you know, I was really. A lot of us were very rough. And even, even with my middle child, you know, my daughter, it's really hard not to say their names on the air. I really try hard not to, and I'm not going to. But yeah, like with my 9 year old, I'm better now for my 6 year old than I was for them at that age. And it's really hard and they get to experience me now. But sometimes I go through a little bit of dad guilt. Like, man, you know, she's getting the best of me. Those others got a version, you know, of me that wasn't the greatest, but, you know, I wasn't a horrible human being by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not saying that, but I'm saying, like, I just wish I was that much better for them because I see, I see the difference in me. And I just want to speak to the parents out there. It's okay to think that, but please don't let it hold you hostage. Please just continue to do better. Pour into them now. Because the reality is, I don't know how much of my childhood I remember. I mean, let's be honest, my son can pick up a moment from when he was 6 because he's 11 now, but when he's 30, he's not going to remember that moment. So my job, every single day, what I work really hard for, is to continue to get better. So that way when all their memories form, they know the father that I was. When it's time for me to go.
- [45:27]
B
Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's a beautiful, beautiful thought and a beautiful piece of honesty from you. And remember, God also said, I give you my grace. My grace is sufficient for you. His grace is sufficient. So you, you know, because you have that grace and, and, and for your children to get to see you walk in, that grace shows them by example that, you know, hey, I had some rough times. I, I, I learned, I grew, and, and that God's grace is sufficient for me. It'll be sufficient for you too, son. And that's perhaps an even more important message than you could have given him by being a perfect parent from day one. It really is. And you know, I, I have to say something. As you made me think about it, I, and this is, this is dangerous to say honestly right now. The man, the, the boy, the person, the monster that killed my friend Charlie last week, he, I, the minute I heard his name, I went, searched social media. The little, you know, cell phone investigator journalist from the Tea Party is not, is not very far buried in my heart. I'm still that, still that citizen journalist. And I start combing through the social media of the family, and I find his mother's Facebook page. And I start recording his mother's Facebook page. And I have tons and tons, dozens of screenshots of her Facebook page. And I'm looking, looking with my psychologist's brain. You know, I'm not a licensed psychologist, but I'm trained as one, as you know. And anyway, I, I'm looking, looking for anything, a pink flag, let alone a red flag, anything I can see, you know, scrolling, looking through all the years of this killer's life. And I want to say that her Facebook page looked honestly like something out of a Disney movie. If you were to picture two perfect parents who were in love, who raised their three boys, took them hunting, took them fishing, took them to amusement parks, took them to, you know, race Dirt bikes. Took them to do all the things and. And. And built her children up pictures of them, first day of school. Here they are. Oh, here's my boy. I'm so proud of him. Remember this? This boy was a valid. Was. I don't know if he was valedictorian, but a 4.0 student. Mama did some things right. Now, I don't know what went wrong and you can't. We can't. Armchair quarterback. What happened to this person who obviously became so possessed with evil that he committed the most heinous of acts on our friend? And I'm not excusing parenting. I don't know what happened. I have no idea. But I can tell you her Facebook page. I told my kids people would find a lot more dicey things on my page than I found on her page. And who knows what kind of mother she was, but my goodness, what a horrible thing. I have a very close friend whose son actually raped, murdered and dismembered a 13 year old child when he was. I can't remember if he was 17 or 18, but he was very young when this happened. And my friend has to live with that every single day. And he's the first person that I went to and he's the person that I've been ministering to this week because he's tried so hard and he made mistakes and in his younger life as well. And he's the first person that I went to to try to comfort after I saw this mother's Facebook page and I thought, oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. All we can do as parents is do our best. All we can do is try. All we can do is learn from the lessons that God gives us in life. But grace is such an important factor that I think we forget a lot as we do hold ourselves to a standard, right? We forget about God's grace. But God talked about grace a lot in the Bible and there's a reason for that. And I think in the moments where we do fall short, in the moments where we begin to think about our past or things that we've done, those are the scriptures to go to. It's the scriptures about grace and God's very strong word to us and very strong advice to us to accept that grace. He died for it. If we don't accept it, we're rejecting Jesus's death on the cross. So it's very important that we accept and pour that grace over ourselves and let ourselves be forgiven for what we've done in our lives. That's mistaken.
- [49:46]
A
You Know, Gina, this is a great point about his mom. You know, I didn't do the dive on. On Facebook or, you know, social media, but, you know, I think a lot about his parents. As a parent myself, I'm trying to empathize, man. They're probably. I mean, they're probably destroyed. You know, I would have to think that. I mean, they can't. Can they go in public? Can. I mean, like, think about all these things like, that they have to deal with now because of the choices that their son made. And, you know, the text messages became public last night between him and his partner. I. I read them 15 times. I'm like, what am I reading here? And. And the only encouraging thing that I saw there was, like, at one point, his partner just went silent, and he just kept going.
- [50:40]
B
I couldn't tell, though, Sean. I'm not sure if he actually went silent, because I don't know if you noticed there were little dots in between there. I think that might have been redacted text. I'm not sure. To protect somebody who's not accused of a crime. I'm not completely sure. I don't know that. But I did notice those little dot, dot, dots, and I thought, hmm, what's that? Yeah.
- [50:56]
A
Ah, good point. I didn't notice that. I didn't notice that. But, you know, as. As we wind down, I want to ask you one more question. I'll be respectful of your time, but how do we fix this? Right? How. How do we, as America come together and fix what's going on? Because surely this cannot keep going on. I mean, we're talking, you know, over the next 10, 20 years, this can get potentially worse. Like, how. How does. How does America truly come together? No matter what, what you believe, it's okay to believe separate things. That was a beautiful part of this country. I thought, I have many friends that don't believe the things I do. I have many friends or acquaintances that live a completely separate type of lifestyle than mine. I'm like, okay, cool. That's what you choose. I'm not gonna judge it. I'm not gonna be mad at you and hate you for thinking differently than me. And. And let's be honest, Charlie didn't. I saw this quote somewhere. Like, he didn't send messages of hate. They hated what he said. How do we fix it?
- [52:03]
B
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the short answer is, of course, that we don't, because it's a spiritual battle. We don't battle against flesh and blood. As you know, this is the. The oldest battle. It's it's an ongoing battle, and it goes on around us all the time, and we just don't have the eyes to see it yet. But the longer, and I think more important answer is, how then do we live? Right. Which is, of course, a famous book. And in a not so famous book, a book that I wrote called Mad Politics, I talk about this quite extensively, and I talk about how you have to speak truth and you have to stand and you have to fight, and. And that's why everyone's involvement is so important. You know, Charlie isn't going to be replaced. Charlie is going to be multiplied. And that's why you have to listen so carefully for your call in the midst of this, you know, we don't. My husband said to me, my husband's a former senator, always senator. I just said senator, didn't I? Senator, Senator. Always been very, very involved in politics. He was raised in a political family. I wasn't. And he said to me once, we don't have the convenience. We don't have the luxury of not being involved in our government. We don't get the government we want. We get the government we deserve. And it could not be more true. And it stands, and it will always stand. But what can we do about it? Well, we have to make sure that we're doing everything we can to train up a child in the way he should go so when he's old, he won't depart from it. I just did a 17 book series on helping young little hearts memorize scripture, because I believe that scripture memory is so important. My kids and I one night were having a conversation over at the dinner table about. About the books that they remember. And, you know, like, Night, Night Moon. Everyone knows these. Like, that's a good one.
- [53:56]
A
Good night.
- [53:57]
B
We all read, right? Right. We all read all of the same books, you know, and my kids are like, mama, why weren't you reading to us from a book where we can finish the sentence but it's scripture? And I'm like, I don't know, but I think I have to write it. And so I put my head together with Dr. Jim Mosley from Liberty University, and we hired the illustrator from Veggie Tales. I'm so excited about this new 17 book series called the Bible by Heart. We just released our first book. It's called Creation Days of Creation by Heart. So it's on the creation story, and it helps your little mind, your little heart, whoever that person is in your life, whether it's a niece or a grandchild or A child of your own or a friend to be able to finish the sentence. When it comes to what happened on the first day, what happened on the second day, when did God rest? Right? Those kinds of things, they'll know them forever if you read it to them when they're a child. So we did the 17 book series that's coming out, and I'm very excited about it. You can already order Days of Creation by Heart online, and I would encourage anybody to do that. And. And then I think the other thing is we pray, and I think we have to understand our relationship with God. And I think that relationship with God needs to be like the love letters you wrote to your wife when you were dating, right? Court God back. God's courted you your whole life. Court him back. You court him back with prayer. And I'll tell you what, I'm not. I'm not in any way a theologian or a prayer expert by any standard, but here's what happened to me. I'm gonna tell you a quick little story. I know we gotta wrap my. I. I received as a gift a book. And I started writing in that book almost by mistake, bullet pointing my prayers day by day. Because it was a kind of a journal, devotional kind of a book, and very esoteric and not really my taste. Like, I'm a red meat girl at this point in my life. Like, I want to be. I want to be exhorted, right? So. But I did it because of the person that gave me the book. I just kind of wanted to keep it. And I thought, you know, what? If this is all the Bible I get today, at least I got this. And I started just writing day by day. And at the end of about three years, I realized I had completely forgotten, Sean, the things that I was praying for three years ago, two years ago, one year ago. Cause I was writing on that date every. Every year. You know, I would just write the year at the top and then I would write the date. So I thought what is needed is a journal where you have the devotion, you have the scripture, you have the little thought in there, but you have plenty of room to write in a creative format what your prayers are that day. Even if it's just one word, even if it's just bullet points, just write it down. Because you will forget how God answers your prayer. Sometimes those answers come by not fulfilling what you were praying for, but by just fulfilling it in a different way. But you've got to have that love story written down. And Erica talks about Charlie was her Best love story. And she thanked him for being her love story. What's your love story? What's your love story with your savior who died on the cross for you? That's the question I wanted to ask. And so I have two new also prayer journals coming out. One is called Prayer Answered, and another one is called the Prayer Warriors Journal. And I want people to use them like that. It's not about me or what I wrote. It's about what you write in this journal that I think will solidify your love letters, your love story with Jesus, and. And that's why I hope people go with it. It's to train up their children and to love God and have a relationship with them. That's what we can do.
- [57:24]
A
I want those journals, so when they come out, let me know where I can pick some up, because I want that for the family. So thank you so much, Gina. You've been so amazing to talk to, and thank you for having such an open, vulnerable, and respectful conversation about the world, everything going on it. And our friend Charlie Kirk, may he rest in peace. And I look forward to meeting you in person soon because we learned we're very close to each other geographically, so we'll have to make that happen.
- [57:53]
B
I'm camping in your yard. Sean, you offered. Don't. Don't be shocked when I show up with my whole family and all my dogs, and we're camping there. We're sitting there in your hot tub. You know, bring it.
- [58:03]
A
Bring it. Hey, there's someone here. I'm like, oh, don't worry. That's Gina. I'll be home in a minute. Go out there and say hi. Turner family. She's invited. Open invite.
- [58:11]
B
Exactly.
- [58:11]
A
But thank you so much. Have an amazing rest of your day. And I really. I really cherish this. So for the audience out there, I hope this conversation made you think and dive into your feelings a little bit and just have an objective view of what's going on in the world today and how you can play a part in not fixing it, but fighting evil through good. And until next time, stay determined.