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Determined Society with Shawn French | Adversity & Mindset
Surviving the Unthinkable: Cheryl Hunter's Journey from Trauma to Triumph
01:07:30
In this captivating episode of The Determined Society, host Shawn French sits down with Cheryl Hunter, a three-time bestselling author, four-time TED Talk speaker, and a powerful voice in overcoming adversity. Cheryl shares her harrowing story of...
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- [00:00]
Sean French
You were overseas, you were in Europe and you were approached by a couple gentlemen. You were approached by a couple of assholes, criminals that told you they would promise to make you a model. And you trusted them. They kidnapped you and pretty much left you for dead.
- [00:13]
Cheryl Hunter
The torture was real. While I was there, I remember praying. I thought, I am such a bad person. This is what God does to bad people.
- [00:24]
Sean French
Wow.
- [00:24]
Cheryl Hunter
And I'm lying there in the cement and, you know, bloodied and beaten and the ringleader chopped off my hair. Why they let me go and I have no idea. I just got up as soon as the car was out of sight and ran for my life.
- [00:43]
Sharp French
Sean French, what up? This one luck. I let the pain inspire me. I put my all in. Everything I'm doing up until it's done, I'm me for the entirety. I put it in overtime. I be working. Just know I'm a go for mine. Cause I earned it. They watch and I know it's time I confirmed it. The whole society Determined determin What's up everybody?
- [01:06]
Sean French
Welcome back to another episode of the Determined Society. I'm your host, Sean French and before you go on and listen to this episode, if this is your first time listening, please pretty please hit subscribe. Whether it's on YouTube, Apple or Spotify. Leave us a nice review. Let us know what you'd like to hear more of and where we are doing. Well, we'd like to hear your feedback. Today I have such an amazing guest. It's been a long time coming. She's a three time best selling author, four time TED talker. She's a TV writing writer, producer, and just overall an unbelievable badass. My friend, Cheryl Hunter. What is up, Sean?
- [01:47]
Cheryl Hunter
This is a long time coming.
- [01:49]
Sean French
Do you know what's so funny like for people, like listening is like people don't understand how relationships are actually formed. You know how I actually found out who you were? No, dude, you were all over my ad screen like Facebook. You were just like in my face, in my face. I'm like, Jesus, okay, fine, who is this chick? And then you know, so I was like, I sent you a follow. And then eventually Todd Armstrong connected us over, you know, that one agency. And this is something we've been trying to do for like a year.
- [02:22]
Cheryl Hunter
In the meantime, every time we, since we both follow each other on social media, I know, you know, people diss it and are like, ah, there's no authentic connection created. I disagree. We're on opposite ends of the country and we're able to cheer each other on see what your family's doing, see what your kids are doing, the great work you're doing. And we're just like, yeah, for the. We've been like school kids for the past month. Can't wait till.
- [02:51]
Sean French
Dude, I'm like, November 21st. I'm like, good God. Can we. I'm like. I'm like, okay, that's fine. It's something to look forward to. And then it's funny, the other day we were talking, you said, is it Thursday yet? I'm like, it can't get here quickly enough. Like, it just, it wasn't getting here fast enough. But it's funny, you mentioned, you know, there's no authenticity in social media. And it's a funny topic. And then we'll get to your background and everything. But I wanted to touch base on that first. Since you said it, I want to overlook it. It's like, it's. It's like everything in life, right? It's what you make of it. And if you can, can. If you can genuinely connect with people, like you really give a shit about people, then you can make really good friends online. Like, a lot of my friends that I have now are ones that I've never even met, but I trust them so much more than the people that live in the same town as me. That call friend.
- [03:41]
Cheryl Hunter
Isn't it amazing if we, in. In one regard, if you put aside all the, quote, distractions that would be there, if you're meeting somebody in person, you can really just get to the heart of the matter right away and drop all the small talk and go straight for the heart. I. I mean, I suppose that's right. The truth in any context.
- [04:10]
Sean French
Sure, sure, it may. That's the thing. It's like a lot of people don't. I don't think it's a sweeping generalization. I don't want to say everybody, I say, but there's a lot of people that don't truly leverage social media the right way, and they look at it with, you know, intentions that may not serve them, building relationships. But, like, you know, we've built this relationship over the last year or so, you know, And I know when in my business it's time to go and, like, get services that you provide and we'll get into that. Like, I already have my answer. I already know who to go to. Like, I don't. I don't have to sit here and go on Google and interview a thousand different people that don't get me because, like, that's the thing. Like you've been watching for over a year or two. Like, you. You already know exactly what I need. I don't even have to ask. You probably already know. So it's like. But. But beyond that is the relationship aspect. And it's just. People are missing on it, Cheryl. They're missing a big opportunity.
- [05:11]
Cheryl Hunter
There's a true opportunity, a little teaser, a spoiler of what we'll be discussing later. But there's a true opportunity for connection that our own stories allow for.
- [05:26]
Sean French
Yeah.
- [05:27]
Cheryl Hunter
And when we portray ourselves authentically and connect to that which is authentic about the other, it allows for, I think, that which we long for most, which is real connection, heart connection. And then like you'd said, if you map that onto business, why on earth would we go to anybody else but the person we're already connected to from the heart? That's who we want to work with.
- [05:56]
Sean French
Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. I just think we have to be available for it, right? You have to be available to hold space in your heart for someone that you haven't met. And it's this relationship that or friendship that you're literally navigating on the freaking Internet. But listen, it works for us. It doesn't work for everybody, Right. I think people, that it does work for you. I mean, it's a talent. It's very, you know, you have to be a very talented individual to create a relationship out of just a computer screen. It's really. It's really difficult. But I probably didn't articulate that well, but I think that people may understand where I'm going with it.
- [06:39]
Cheryl Hunter
Well, I also think that what you're saying not only applies to the digital world, but applies in relationships in all contexts. There's ways often that each of us wants to portray ourselves as, you know, showing the good things, the best elements of who we are, putting a best face forward. Isn't it, you know, an idiom for a reason? And yet that's not what truly connects us.
- [07:11]
Sean French
Right. And it's so funny because, like, you know, as I sit here digging and getting comfortable is. That's a misconception too. You know, I had somebody reach out to me and listen, like, I'm sure it was genuine. Right. I've known the guy a long time, but I hit a major milestone the other day in my show. I think you saw it. Like, we hit a million downloads this year. Like, that's massive. Right. I haven't turned on the marketing machine yet. I haven't done anything this is just listens. This is, like, what I've created through my blood, sweat, and a lot of freaking tears, right? And I get a message saying, hey, I just want to check in with you, make sure you're okay. Like, are you good? I know it looks like you're good, but are you good? You know, people that portray everything's okay. A lot of times, those are the people that you need to check in with. And I understood what he was coming from. I was okay. Hey, man, I'm good. It's a lot sometimes because you're constantly serving. You're always having to be on. But, like, I look at that, I thought about it. I'm like, am I portraying. Everything's okay? I'm like, no. Because if you listen to my show, I always talk about my failures, what I suck at, and what I need to get better at, what I'm struggling with. So to your point, the power of authenticity is just. It's a premium right now. And I think that more people need to be in that spot where they can open up their heart and say, hey, this is truly where I'm at. You know, like, it. This is where I am. And, you know, I'm struggling in this era area, but I'm going to celebrate my wins unapologetically.
- [08:43]
Cheryl Hunter
I think right now, like, this moment in history, there's an opportunity to do that like there never has been before. Because I think, you know, authors like Brene Brown talking about the power of vulnerability or whether it's normalizing conversations around mental health and even celebrating Mental Health Awareness Month every year, it's now we're starting to create the opportunity for people to say, hey, I'm okay, or I'm not okay, or here's what's authentically going on. And rather than in the past, how we would kind of awkwardly sidestep that with other people and ourselves. I mean, I hid my own story for well over a decade that told nobody, but it's so. I'm. Meaning I'm not sitting in an ivory tower going, you people. You people who don't tell who you are.
- [09:53]
Sean French
She's not in an ivory tower.
- [09:59]
Cheryl Hunter
Note to self. Find out. But, you know, there's. There's a real opportunity to share the whole of it now. And the whole of it told in a. In the right way, I think, not only connects us to others, but galvanizes an audience and into movement. And I think it's really our access to everything.
- [10:27]
Sean French
I agree. I agree. Your story. Okay, now, audience listening. This could be a Trigger for some of you guys. But this is a real life story and I want to tell it, and I want her to tell it because, you know, she, she dug deep down to her story and she's helped the world because of it and she's brought a lot of awareness to this. So you were overseas, you're in Europe. And you were approached by a couple gentlemen that promised to make.
- [10:56]
Cheryl Hunter
Gentlemen. That's the.
- [10:58]
Sean French
You were approached by a couple of assholes.
- [11:01]
Cheryl Hunter
Criminals. Yeah.
- [11:03]
Sean French
That told you. You, they would promise to make you a model. And you trusted them. They kidnapped you, pretty much left you for dead.
- [11:10]
Cheryl Hunter
Yep. And you know, you can fill in all the gory details with your mind. Me and a couple of men holding me captive, but it's. It. The torture was, was real. And then I, while, while I was there in the, in the midst of it, I remember praying God. You know, I was a teenager, so, you know, my, my relationship with God was different than it is now, but it was, you know, kind of the old gray haired man sitting, sitting up in the sky in the proverbial ivory tower. Right? Yes, I, I know I've been a bad girl. I was thinking I was being punished. I. I had been mean to my little brother and sister. I talked back to my parents.
- [12:00]
Sean French
Right.
- [12:01]
Cheryl Hunter
I didn't. When I would go out with my grandma into town or into the mall, she'd try to hold my hand and I wouldn't want to hold her hand. And I. And I thought, I'm being punished for these things. And the big one was when I was, when I was a kid, not long before this, in a freak accident, a baby drowned at our house.
- [12:26]
Sean French
Oh my God.
- [12:27]
Cheryl Hunter
And I thought it was. I thought, I am such a bad person. This is what God does to bad people.
- [12:37]
Sean French
Wow.
- [12:38]
Cheryl Hunter
And so I'm lying there in the cement and, you know, bloodied and beaten and all the things.
- [12:48]
Sean French
Yes.
- [12:51]
Cheryl Hunter
And I just said, you know, I'll be a good girl. I'll be a girl.
- [12:57]
Sean French
I'll do better, Right? Yeah.
- [12:59]
Cheryl Hunter
I'll be happy all the time. I'll be nice to everybody. And then they take me. So weird one, the, the ringleader chopped off my hair before I. Why they let me go. And I have no idea. But I'm then dumped in this plot of land, lying there in the dirt. The best I can come up with, they're driving away and I play dead. That was the best sort of survival solution I could come up with. And then I just got up as soon as the car was out of sight and ran for my life. But I'm there. I'm alive. And I'm now contending with the fact that. Wait. Oh, oh, oh. I told God I was going to be happy. How I. I felt. Ironically, Sean, more captive than before, because now the captivity was between my ears. I now was replaying the tapes of the brutal. Brutalization, the violence, the. All of it. And I wanted to get back at them. I wanted to. I didn't know how. I foolishly, just innocently thought there was a way to get back to life. It was like life, like it was beforehand. And once I realized, okay, maybe that can't happen, the best I could do was pretend it didn't happen. Is that what you ended up with?
- [14:50]
Sean French
Is that what you.
- [14:51]
Cheryl Hunter
That was the best I could do. I was a teenager. I was like, yeah, I'm just. I can never. I realized I could never tell anybody.
- [14:58]
Sean French
Well, how old?
- [14:59]
Cheryl Hunter
They would know. 18. I had my birthday, my 19th birthday when I was there, so I was 19, I guess, when they let me go. Jesus. And so I. I said, I can never tell anybody. They'll know that I'm so stupid and gullible, but ruined and filthy and damaged and disgusting and all of these things. I thought of myself, but also somebody who's bad enough that God has to punish, and I can't. If I have nobody in my life now, I can't live, so I'm just going to have to hide. I stayed quite distant from people at arms, kept them at arm's length, but I just pretended to myself when the thoughts would come up. No, no, that didn't happen. That didn't happen. That didn't happen. Not a great strategy, by the way.
- [16:00]
Sean French
Listen, I mean, I can't say yes or no on that, right? Because I've never been through it. And I hope that, you know, I want to say. Hope that someone listening can relate. But if someone has had this experience and they haven't talked about it, I want your voice to be the one that says, hey, like, there's a way out. You can talk about this. You can be honest about your story, and it can help you later on in life, impacting others and, you know, making sure that they're safe, et cetera. But let me ask you a quick question. Like, what do you estimate how long were you taken for?
- [16:34]
Cheryl Hunter
Oh, four days, three days. Oh, my God.
- [16:37]
Sean French
Oh, my Lord. That's. That's wild. That is what. That's some wild. And so when you. When you were let go, they drove off, you ran away. How quickly were you able to find help? And what did it look like in the ensuing days after. I'm assuming you came right home.
- [16:57]
Cheryl Hunter
No, I was determined to never go home again. I grew up in the really remote Rockies of Colorado on a horse ranch. And it was just heaven when I was a little kid, just riding horses. And every day was a wonderful adventure. Streams and brooks and old Indian pictographs, and I mean heaven. Heaven. And yet, when I got to be a teenager and there were no signs of civilization from our ranch, and the nearest town of any size was an hour and a quarter away or, you know, I had to get out, and I thought, if I now am left with these thoughts, these intrusive thoughts of just these men doing all these things to me and my thoughts of revenge, even though I would try to push it down. No, that didn't happen. That didn't happen. Being at war with your mind is a losing battle. And I thought if I told my parents, I'd have to go back and I would die, literally. You know, you think in such grand scale, of course, as a kid, I would die if I had to sit there and rot away in the mountains, away from people. No, I want to live in the big city. I don't know what big city. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I have to stay. I can never go back there. And I just. I. That I said I went through all of that to become a model. I mean, look, there was no correlation between those men, what they did and modeling. But I said, I'm going to become a model anyway. And somehow, some way, I went to. I went to England. I had a Eurail pass at the time. Went to England, went to. Found some magazine that listed eight. It was before, like, we all use the interwebs. Yeah. And went to everyone. And like, the second from the last one goes, okay, you're American. We like that. I was like, oh, thank God. You know, just by virtue of being American and tall enough. So I was like, okay. And I became a model, and they sent me all over the world. And the good thing was going all over the world, mostly, first of all, in modeling, nobody cares what you think, so they're not asking you to talk much. So I didn't have to talk with people. It was good for my strategy of staying separate. And then people were all speaking different languages, so, you know, can. Can I smile? They're just like, pout. Those were basically the two emotions here to display. But I started writing at the time. It was at first it was just journaling kind of stuff. But then it was. I started writing stories, and I thought, hey, I'm not bad at this. And it was very therapeutic. But it was something I started to do, and eventually I turned it into. When I settled and, you know, in one place, I turned it into plays and started having them developed by TV networks and sold them and started selling original writing. It was all very therapeutic. But one of the other things I did in the interim was once enough time had elapsed that I had a little bit of space, a little bit of experience being alive. You know, I had a little bit of distance from the kidnapping. I realized, okay, look, I came from tough stock. I was a rancher. I had a look in the mirror and just said, look, you're not the first person to go through something hard.
- [20:59]
Sean French
Right?
- [20:59]
Cheryl Hunter
Other people have been through way worse. Find those people, listen to them, learn from them. What did they do that worked? What did they do that didn't work? And on an inspired moment, I started volunteering at old age homes, boarding care facilities of all kinds. Holocaust survivors, war vets.
- [21:24]
Sean French
Holy shit. So you started giving back. You started really serving the community.
- [21:31]
Cheryl Hunter
And initially, look, it was. I don't want to seem that it was all being magnanimous. Initially, I wanted to listen to these people and hear the people that had gone through adversity. What did they do? I needed help. I didn't just want to read a book. I wanted to hear it firsthand. But once I got there, there's this phenomenon where in this country we kind of ignore our elderly. Don't listen to them. They were so damn thrilled to have somebody listen to what they said, I bet. And as I was listening to them, I didn't have to listen to that negative internal dialogue going on in my head. It was a match made in heaven. It was true.
- [22:14]
Sean French
Right, right.
- [22:16]
Cheryl Hunter
And then it became being of service. I could hear what had worked for them, and I started to codify it into a system. And just listening to them was therapeutic for them and me. Yes. But then I turned all the things that they said that had worked into a framework, how to overcome adversity. And I tried it on myself, and it worked. It actually worked. I was able to put aside all that had happened and not just put it aside, but authentically work through it. And I thought, all right, look, it may just be that it worked for me, but now I want to help some other people. So I found other survivors of. You know, I had since talked to law enforcement.
- [23:05]
Sean French
Okay?
- [23:06]
Cheryl Hunter
They thought it was A trafficking attempt gone awry. So I found survivors of trafficking, sexual assault, rape, violent crime, and I started using what I found with them. I'm like, look, I'm not a, I'm not a psychotherapist, shrink, psychiatrist, any of it. I'm not a mental health care person, but I have lived through it and if this is of help to you, you're welcome to try it out. And I beta tested it with people and sure as heck it worked. And I thought, okay, this, we all deal with trauma somewhere on the spectrum, right?
- [23:48]
Sean French
Right.
- [23:49]
Cheryl Hunter
It's things traumatize each of us. And I, wherever we fall on that spectrum of unwanted circumstances, things we didn't want happening. I think this could really benefit people. I then experienced, great, I've got this way I could help. And when I was a little girl in the mountains of Rye, Colorado, I used to lie on the ground on my back in the horse meadows and I would just. The cows would be grazing and the horses would be grazing and I'm just lying there among their feet and looking up. The only signs of modern day life was that planes would fly overhead. We're in the flyover zone. And I'd stare at those planes and think, man, I want to be the girl in the plane.
- [24:42]
Sean French
Right?
- [24:42]
Cheryl Hunter
I want to be the girl in the plane looking down at the girl in the meadow and. And if I stare hard enough at that plane, I may just get sucked up in that plane and become the girl in the plane. Okay? But fantasies aside, if I'm going to be the girl in the plane, I have to have some way of something to give people, some way to help people. And then I thought back to the girl in the plane and I go, I now have some way to help people.
- [25:11]
Sean French
I commend this. Right. It's. There's one thing to go through something so like, I mean this is just, I'm. I'm thinking I have two daughters, you know, and to hear your story and know, just not even know or feel but just like hear of what's, what went on. Like, thank God for you being able to help some people. Because I think this is something that a lot of people say, okay, I know this is going on, but I don't know anybody that's, you know, been kidnapped, you know, for, you know, a sex trafficking ring or anything like that. Like, I literally am sitting, having a conversation with a friend of mine that this has actually happened to. Like, it's awareness, right? And I feel like, what about, have you ever thought of what about you that they decided to let you go.
- [26:13]
Cheryl Hunter
You know, when I talked to subsequently people in law enforcement, because at that time, I literally just ran for my life, got aboard a train and just got the hell out of France.
- [26:26]
Sean French
Yeah.
- [26:27]
Cheryl Hunter
But I literally didn't care what train I. Where it was going. I just knew it was going out. And I. I just said, I'll figure it out. At that point, when I've talked to law enforcement since then, there, you know, maybe a handoff went wrong or something. I mean, it's all speculation, right? It's kind of like when you go to a doctor and it's sounds like it's your thyroid.
- [26:49]
Sean French
I don't know.
- [26:49]
Cheryl Hunter
It's an educated guess, Right. But, you know, at the time, I thought, well, God's allowing me to repay the horrible human that I am. And since then, I'm like, it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
- [27:13]
Sean French
So that. So don't you start crying, because you're going to make me freaking cry. Don't you do it. I'm kidding. Do it.
- [27:21]
Cheryl Hunter
I'm behind the cleanest.
- [27:23]
Sean French
No, you're fine. Audience. This is. I told you there's going to be a point, right? That it was a trigger moment. I'm sitting here looking at my friend go through her emotions and all these bad things that happened to her. I think it was in France and rise in France. And you're literally coming back and saying years later that this is the best thing that's ever happened to you. And there's some girl right now or some woman that this may have just happened to is watching this episode or listening to this episode, and I want you to speak directly to her right now because you said something very powerful. Why is this the best thing that's ever happened to you? And how can she or a bunch of them get to the same point you are?
- [28:11]
Cheryl Hunter
If there's one thing that's certain in life, it's that things are going to happen that we didn't plan and we didn't want. But if there's one thing that is certain that I've learned and I haven't gone into it yet, but this is out of not just anecdotally for me, but I went on and became a coach in the world's largest personal development development organization for almost 20 years. I've coached hundreds of thousands of people, and I've seen this thread that people experience stuff they didn't want, and we can either look at it and go, no, this shouldn't be. This shouldn't have happened. Or we can say yes. And the moment we authentically say yes to what happened, but not like, yeah, okay, I'll tolerate it. Oh, yeah, hey, tolerate. It's. It's. It's a step up from hell. No. Yes.
- [29:16]
Sean French
Sure.
- [29:16]
Cheryl Hunter
But.
- [29:17]
Sean French
Sure. Right.
- [29:17]
Cheryl Hunter
If. If we can get to a place when we actually hold it in our hand and embrace it and bring it close to our heart, at that point, it will reveal the gift. And not until then, that.
- [29:31]
Sean French
Oh, man. I think, you know, as you said, we all go through trauma at some point. Right.
- [29:39]
Cheryl Hunter
Something that we didn't want. Something. Right.
- [29:41]
Sean French
Something that we did not want. But the key is. And what I think I'm hearing you say is the true acceptance of it. Right. And how can I make that now a part of me so I can give me more. So I can give more of me to people. Right. And when you finally accept and stop running from what happened is when the magic happens. That's so hard.
- [30:04]
Cheryl Hunter
Absolutely. And there's a. There's a go ahead.
- [30:08]
Sean French
Sorry.
- [30:08]
Cheryl Hunter
It's kind of like a ladder. And, you know, it's. We kind of start with that. Hell, no. This shouldn't have happened. It shouldn't be to maybe tolerating it or allowing it or accepting it, but then there's a different stage, and that's a stage of embrace and even loving it, which seems counterintuitive and impossible to get to.
- [30:35]
Sean French
Yes.
- [30:36]
Cheryl Hunter
When you're in the state of hell. No, it's. You can't just leap to I love you. That's just fantasy land. And when. If anyone had suggested I would insist that they needed a swift kick in the pants, you know, it's just. No, you have to go up the ladder steps. But the true gem, the gift, is released at not even acceptance, but embracing it and loving it.
- [31:04]
Sean French
Yeah.
- [31:04]
Cheryl Hunter
And, you know, I'm not saying for a heartbeat that I condone what these men did or that horrible things should happen to good people or any of that, but what I'm saying is there is no getting back to life like it was before.
- [31:21]
Sean French
No. Because it happened.
- [31:22]
Cheryl Hunter
There is no unwinding the clock in some magical, fantastical thinking. There is only now. And our relationship to what occurred in the now is everything.
- [31:41]
Sean French
Yeah.
- [31:42]
Cheryl Hunter
And the moment I claimed it as a gift, I suddenly got to be somebody who was blessed rather than cursed. I suddenly got to be somebody who had something to contribute.
- [31:56]
Sean French
You're such a beautiful person, dude. Like, I. I'm sitting here and, you know, I'm usually for more words, you know, but I always believe like, whatever's going on is meant to be. Like, the audience is meant to hear you more than me today. And obviously, I love that. Right? I love that because it's. It's. It's impact, right? That's what we do on the show is we make an impact. We don't. We don't do clickbait stuff. We don't, you know, try to piss people off to get views. Although sometimes I do say things that piss people off, and I do have to capitalize on it. But there's no plan to do that. Right? It's just me being me and what I am like listening and digesting through this whole story is. And we haven't even got to how bad of a badass you are now, what you're doing for many people over the world. And we'll get to that. It's coming, guys. Just stay with me, right? But this is part of your story that makes you so powerful in what you do now. And. But what I'm hearing and feeling is like, everybody wants to talk about this word determination. Hell, it's my brand. Determine society. Right? It's not what people think it is. And I. And I say this all the time. I'm going to repeat it, right? Because I want the audience to finally lock it the fuck in. Okay? Is determination. Isn't this mean thing every single day, like, rough? Look at me, look at me. It's. No, it's showing up for the recording when you don't feel like it. It's going to the gym when you don't feel like it. It's having hard conversations when you don't feel like it. And a lot of times the hard conversations that you're having is in between. Is in between your own ears. It's with you. And if you can just move a little bit despite your emotional state at that time, you can now get to a point of acceptance and embracing things and moving on in your life and finally understanding what your damn gift is.
- [33:59]
Cheryl Hunter
That moment of understanding what your gift is.
- [34:07]
Sean French
Yeah, it's.
- [34:08]
Cheryl Hunter
It's just so holy and it's. You know, I'd love to be able to sit here and say the thing that unifies us is we all have the greatest things in the world happen. And you sure we all do.
- [34:22]
Sean French
Yeah.
- [34:22]
Cheryl Hunter
But what I think what unifies us is we've got this opportunity to resurrect. And this isn't. Look, we're. This isn't about God and religion or any of that, but I feel like for me, that moment of Coming face to face with who in the hell actually am I and what am I made of? And am I going to say yes to the shit show that I experienced or not? And I thought, well, I know the. I know the cost of saying no to it. I wanted to die.
- [35:01]
Sean French
Yep.
- [35:03]
Cheryl Hunter
So just fuck it. I'm. I'm going to say yes. And in that moment, it came face to face with who I am, and I felt like, oh, I get what resurrection means. I get why that's what we can model. Because when we say yes to all of it, whatever our forgive them, Father, they. We know not. They know not what they do. Whatever the hell that moment is for each of us. The oh, God, no. Are you kidding me right now? Moment for me, it was like, oh, I can resurrect now. When I said, yes, yes, yes, this happened. Yes. Now what do you have for me? Yes, Look, I love it. Today is the anniversary of my mom's passing.
- [35:54]
Sean French
Oh, wow.
- [35:57]
Cheryl Hunter
She. I stand on her shoulders. What an amazing woman. But I say that because we've got each of us these amazing beings somewhere that we can model, whether it's family or not, parents or not, whomever. Maybe you might be there out there feeling lonely, like, I don't have anybody like that. Well, there are people we can model that we don't even know. I mean, Sean, I've been listening to you going, yes, yes, yes. I do have more determination than I realize. We don't have to know people in person, right? But we've got people upon whose shoulders we can stand to serve ourselves, the world, them.
- [36:55]
Sean French
So powerful, man. It's just like, if we just sit there and accept and embrace, like you said, everything in our lives, the good, the bad, the ugly, the shit show, whatever that is for whomever. Make something great of yourself. Right? I think. You know, it's so crazy because for me, when I realized what my gift was, it's this. And I'm thinking, what in the fuck do I do with that? Like, I remember turning around and flipping the phone around for the first time and doing a video when I was creating a Facebook page. I'm like, what a douchebag. You know, I'm that guy now. I'm that guy now. But I never thought in a million years it would turn into this, right? I guess I lie. I did know that this could happen. And I'm nowhere near where I want to be. And I want everybody to really look at that, because a lot of people come to me, like, dude, you're killing it. You've made it. Like, no, I haven't. Like, no, I haven't. Like, thank you. Thank you for believing in me and thank you for seeing me for who I am. I'm still trying to see it. I'm still trying to see it. It's. It. It's not that I don't believe it or I don't see it fully, but it's like, all right, what do we need to do to tweak to get, to get to that guy? Like, like, how do we get there? Right? And, and I think it's through just a lot of self auditing and a lot of, okay, like, I recognize this. I'm not going to stand for this shit anymore. I'm going to go do that. I'm going to build here, I'm going to build there, and you just keep working. But just for me, when I realize and when I start hearing people from all over comparing me to certain individuals that are the best in the business, like, that to me is like, okay, we're on track here. Like, we're on track. We're tracking. Keep going. Because at that one point where that called the jump off point, man, it's like, you know, this whole time we're doing this, and it's through determination. It's through doing it when. And like, let's be honest, we all have things going on in our lives. Like, things have been hard the last two, three years for us under my household. Like, nothing bad, but just it's been hard. And I keep going. And that's the gift. Like, it doesn't have to look like, you know, you don't have to be the. And this is where people get caught up. Like, people get caught up, they have to feel like they have to look perfect. Because that's the narrative right now on social media. If you're not shredded, you ain't shit. You know, if you're not. If you don't have a ton of money, you ain't shit. If you don't have a big following, you ain't shit. None of that is true unless you say it is, you know, And I just think it's important to accept your gift. While I'm rambling here is just accept it, like, and whatever it is, it is. And, like, find a way to give that gift to the world. And that's something that I've done, and that's something that you have evidently done.
- [39:56]
Cheryl Hunter
I remember way back when I used to say, but what is the gift I have to give to the world? What is my purpose? And it. In the ultimate irony, it would be the thing I didn't want, giving that away, finally being able to own that story and give that away. And maybe, just maybe, as you're listening, if you are unclear about, well, what is my gift and what is my purpose and what can I provide? It may have to do with the journey that you've taken, particularly the stuff you didn't want to happen. I see that time and again today with the people with whom I work. They're like, oh, but, God, I'm not telling anybody that. Are you kidding? That's the solid gold. That's the piece that will have people beat a path to your door. That's the piece that will have people say, when you share your story, I hear mine. Even if you've got not a damn thing in common.
- [41:14]
Sean French
So many people want to run from what actually is. Right. It's. And it's almost like, too. There's so many things in my story that I haven't told because I'm afraid of the reaction. Am I gonna lose people? I might. Yeah, I might. But I might gain the world.
- [41:33]
Cheryl Hunter
Yeah.
- [41:34]
Sean French
And I. And I think it's something that we all have to think about, Right?
- [41:37]
Cheryl Hunter
Yeah.
- [41:38]
Sean French
Don't hold back.
- [41:40]
Cheryl Hunter
Not your people.
- [41:41]
Sean French
Where are you holding back in your life? You know, it's. It's so funny. Like, I made a joke with my team. I said, this reel is going to get me canceled. Like, and it went out today, and I haven't been canceled, you know, and it's just a fear, but it's like, those are my thoughts. Like, I have to stand on something, you know, for the longest time in this show, I've. And it'll always be all inclusive. Always, always, always, always. But I do have my values. I do believe certain things are right, and I do believe certain things are wrong. I should be able to talk about it in my own damn show. And I'm. And I'm now starting to do that. Right. And. But. But those are one of the things that I've kind of kept off my platform. And I'm like, no, not anymore. Not anymore. It has to be out there, you know, because I could, you know, get a couple, you know, people in my comments that don't like what I. What the real was, and I already have, you know, I was like, ooh, okay. Like, that struck a nerve. Good. But I also might have more people that say, oh, wow, I didn't realize that was how he thought, because he's very down the middle and hasn't Given his opinion on anything now I'm starting to see more of who he is. So to your point, with your clients and people that are listening now, like, tell your damn story. You know, I'm talking to myself too. You know, it. My story needs to be out there more. Right. And it needs to be articulated better. It needs to be out there so people can come to listen to this. But anyway, so I want to transition into. While we're, you know, we've. I mean, this could be literally a Joe Rogan style podcast. I could literally talk to you for three hours. You know, I mean, I really could, but I want to. When you say the people you work, the people that you work with and things like that, tell everybody what you actually do. Because you are amazing at your craft and, you know, you. You help people tell their stories. And I mean, how. You know, you've been on Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz, you know, you know, endorses you on your website. Like, you're doing pretty damn well, my friend.
- [43:59]
Cheryl Hunter
Thank you.
- [44:00]
Sean French
Yes.
- [44:00]
Cheryl Hunter
So, Sean, I want to take one little step back. There's. So here I am. I've got this way I've come up with to overcome adversity that I think could benefit anybody who's experienced adversity, meaning everybody. What I had done then, by then is my day job. I had sold original scripts both on my own and with partners to become TV shows. And I'm under contract with as a network TV writer. And I can see now that I'm in media, I can really see the power that media has to shape the collective conversation. Whether it's that everybody in the nation or the world is talking about the same thing at the same time, the same story, the same occurrence, or, you know, it's creating these water cooler moments where everybody's connected by virtue of the stories that we're consuming or watching. And I thought, oh, wow, what if I could get my own work out to the world on major media? And I thought, this ought to be a cakewalk. I mean, I'm connected sort of. You know, I write network tv. How hard could it be? It took me a decade. Wow, like what? That seems impossible. First of all, I hired all kinds of publicists. What I did not realize at the time is publicists are great if you are famous. They have to have something to publicize. So, like, because we had one for the TV shows and, you know, I could see the line, items, $410,000 publicist. I was like, oh, I should have a publicist that I hired so many and spent all my money on publicist, and I literally never got anything.
- [46:06]
Sean French
Yeah.
- [46:07]
Cheryl Hunter
And I was like, okay, so not that. Let's see. And I just. I. There's all these myths that people come to us with, and I. And I went through every one of them. I just need an introduction to the producer of Good Morning America. Well, I burned that bridge. And I'm blacklisted still to this day. Then I.
- [46:29]
Sean French
You're blacklisted?
- [46:31]
Cheryl Hunter
I. I just didn't know. If you don't know what to do, it's so easy to get black. You do the wrong damn thing and you come in and talk about your product or service. You just don't know. I didn't know. And I. I burned introductions to people. Like I was connected. So I was like, hey, hook me up with the producer of this, this, this. And I went in and, like, you know, summarily X'd out all of those introductions because I wasn't media trained. I knew how to write, but I didn't know how to write soundbites. I didn't know how to write talking points. I didn't know how to create a compelling core message. And that's the point. I still wasn't sharing my story. You know, I could talk about that. It's possible to overcome adversity, you know, hypothetically speaking, with all the people that I've worked with, so to speak, but. But nobody gave a damn because there was no context for it to land inside of. And then I thought, okay, let me share my story. But then I shared it in such a way that people are like, oh, my God, you need a hug. I'm so sorry.
- [47:40]
Sean French
It's the last thing I want right now.
- [47:42]
Cheryl Hunter
Are you okay? I'm like, I'm not looking for a hug. I'm looking for national TV exposure so I can help the world overcome adversity. There must be something I'm saying wrong. Wrong. And they were like, oh, this poor, poor girl. Poor, poor thing. I'm so sorry that happened to you. Let me just get away because it's making me uncomfortable.
- [48:03]
Sean French
Yeah, right.
- [48:06]
Cheryl Hunter
They now can hear the triumph. And I just didn't know all these things. I was a good writer. I was good enough to be under contract with all these big studios and networks and. But I didn't know how to tell my own story. And it, by the time I finally did it and got out there, had hundreds of millions of views. My own goal cast, episode, like, all these things, I went back to the mirror, had a conversation with myself and said, Is it really helping people overcome adversity that you want to do for the rest of your life? You know what, there's an industry dedicated to that. I'm going to leave that to mental health professionals. I think the way I could make the biggest difference is by shepherding mission driven experts who want to change the world with whatever their gift is. Find a way to get the word out to millions through media. Because if it took me a decade as a network TV writer, producer, these people don't stand a snowball's chance in hell.
- [49:18]
Sean French
I mean, I'm sitting here thinking like, man, I'm only, I'm only four years in, I'm screwed. I got another six years. I'm teasing.
- [49:27]
Cheryl Hunter
I gathered together that producers and directors and journalists that I had met on the way and said, let me tell me why this is a stupid idea. I'm thinking about surrounding these people and helping them get media so they can change the world through their work. What do you think? Why is that a bad idea? And to a person, each one of these gatekeeper type individuals said, you know what? This is why I got into media, to help people. So yes, that's awesome. And that's what, that's what we do today. Get your media trained. Do so prevent you from making all the stupid mistakes that I made. So you can't.
- [50:08]
Sean French
I'm sure I'm like listening to you. I'm like, I'm sure I've blacklisted myself from many, many places because I didn't know how to pitch myself or to talk. I mean, I know what I'm doing, but I don't know how to articulate it to a point where, you know, TV execs or even just local media.
- [50:25]
Cheryl Hunter
We just don't know.
- [50:26]
Sean French
Don't know.
- [50:27]
Cheryl Hunter
You don't know what I'm good at. Where can you use me? You know, we don't know. Daggummit.
- [50:35]
Sean French
I think you need to write a story on me. Here's what's going on. Like, no, like I, and I made that mistake. I've made that mistake. It's like, yo, I'm in your backyard. Like we're building something special here. This brand, this movement, like it's here, you know, I haven't quite figured out how to, how to engage the local media, but one day I will, One day I will, I'll make them notice, right? Like, that's what we, that's what we have to, you know, rest our laurels on is like, hey, I will figure it out.
- [51:08]
Cheryl Hunter
There's what I like to call. Here's. Here's a sneak peek of. Well, not even a sneak peek. This is a. This is the road map, okay, of what I say, how I call it, the Holy Trinity of major media. In order to get featured, and not just once and then they redact your segment or, or block it out and remove it from any subsequent broadcast, but to get featured, do a great job, get invited back again and again, like actually create a presence. You have to fulfill three things, AKA the Holy Trinity, right? You've got to provide massive value for the audience, massive value for the major media platform, whatever that is. And then you've also got to figure out a way to serve your brand. Otherwise, what's the point? But the counterintuitive thing is it's not talking about your brand.
- [52:08]
Sean French
Exactly.
- [52:09]
Cheryl Hunter
Or when you do talk about it, it's finding a way to do it. So it's not self serving, it's audience serving. And the context inside of which all of it must occur is the conversation is about what they're already discussing. The conversation is about what is already in the news. The conversation is, you are moving forward what they're already talking about. Because it's all the, hey, I can. I'm good at this and this and this and this is what I do. And so invite me on that got me so shut out. You display your expertise by how you move forward, the conversations that are already happening. So people don't want to hear that, come to me and they're like, no, I want to talk about the world's best toothbrush. Good. There's something called an ad for that.
- [53:07]
Sean French
Yeah, yeah.
- [53:08]
Cheryl Hunter
Or an infomercial. If you want to get on TV and talk about your world's best toothbrush, go into an infomercial.
- [53:14]
Sean French
I just. It's funny to me when you say that because it's like, you know, your service is premium, right? And it's like, how could someone come to you? I mean, because, you know, I'm looking, I'm listening. I'm like, I would. I wouldn't fight you. I'd be like, all right, cool. Tell me what to do. Like, tell me what I need to do and how I need to do it. Teach me. Right? Teach me. I think a lot of people need to get back in that space of becoming the student, right? And letting go of their own, I guess, preconceived notions on how it's supposed to look or how you're supposed to go to market. It's like, hey, no, you need to listen to the professionals, you hired someone to do a job, let them do their job, listen to them and take action and then execute.
- [53:56]
Cheryl Hunter
And, you know, you talked about doubling down and continuing to press and do the work, and ultimately getting major media is no different. It's a long game. I mean, to continue to be top of mind of the people you want to reach. That's a long game. That's not a one and done. Hey, I got featured by CNBC on Tuesday, the 25th of never. And you know, it's. It was, it was awesome. And here I am. I mean, for some people, it's like they just want to be able to put in their email signature or in their website as seen on cnbc. And that's, that's great. That's fine.
- [54:37]
Sean French
It's a great. But like, to be consistent, like you say, like, that's where you become like that staying power.
- [54:43]
Cheryl Hunter
Yeah. To be a category of one and be the only logical choice for what you provide. It's like doing a podcast where you're like, I don't care if I feel like it today, it goes out. I don't care if I. You know, it's. It's regular, whatever it is, posting or ads or major media. It requires ongoing work.
- [55:07]
Sean French
It's that push forward that nobody really understands. Can't stop.
- [55:12]
Cheryl Hunter
It requires consistency. And I think why people get disillusioned with anything is like, wait, I recorded the podcast. Aren't people supposed to. They said, I, I watched the movie. They said, if you build it, they will come. Where is everybody?
- [55:32]
Sean French
Where's. Where's all the business? Where's all the listens? Where's all the brand deals? Damn. It doesn't say how many times you have to build it. It just says if you build it, it will come.
- [55:44]
Cheryl Hunter
That's good.
- [55:46]
Sean French
No, just because it said that. Just because it showed in the movie that they built this field and it took what, I don't know how long. But like, to your point, to everybody, to everybody listening, like, yes, if you built it, they will come, but you have to build it. You have to be consistent. It's not like an overnight thing. Like Cheryl said. It's. And I'm blown away because I didn't know. I thought, like, you were a TV writer and then boom, you were able to get access and it went well. Like 10 years, guys. 10 fucking years. And she knew the damn industry. She knew the damn industry, you know, so it's like, let's be easier on ourselves. Can we please just. And I'm speaking to Myself, because I am somebody that is like Ed Mylett always says, be blissfully dissatisfied. Like, I am more than blissfully dissatisfied with where I am, but I also need to realize, like, dude, the me three years ago would kill to be right here, right now. And so it's a progression. And more people that are watching and listening to whatever you all are doing out there, they're seeing the growth. You just can't see it because you're focused on the fucking destination. And that's the problem. That's my problem. I should just drop.
- [57:00]
Cheryl Hunter
You know that. No, I'm just that.
- [57:05]
Sean French
Cut.
- [57:06]
Cheryl Hunter
The we had a mic drop moment. Oh, no. I mean, not literally.
- [57:15]
Sean French
Oh, God. I mean, damn, man. Damn.
- [57:19]
Cheryl Hunter
You know, there is a. It, it. There's a thin line to traverse. How do we celebrate enough wins to keep motivated and yet stay humble enough to keep grinding?
- [57:36]
Sean French
I like it.
- [57:37]
Cheryl Hunter
And stay determined enough to persevere when through all the. I don't want us. And whatever stuff occurs that we don't want.
- [57:46]
Sean French
They're going to come. They're going to come. The I don't want to are all over the damn place. They've hit me like seven times today already. It's not even noon. Or it is noon. It's noon. Not for you, though. You got your whole day. You're in Cali.
- [58:03]
Cheryl Hunter
Yeah. How is the future?
- [58:09]
Sean French
How's the past?
- [58:14]
Cheryl Hunter
Speaking of the past, I just came back from my honeymoon and we went to. Sicily was one of the places we went and they went to. Just explored the hell out of all the ancient Greek temples.
- [58:34]
Sean French
Wow.
- [58:35]
Cheryl Hunter
And it just, it. It just, I feel like reordered my DNA and I, you know, I'd seen ruins, ironically on that same trip, went to the Acropolis in Greece and went to Rome and on that same trip that my best friend and I went to France. The whole kidnapping.
- [59:00]
Sean French
Yeah.
- [59:01]
Cheryl Hunter
But you know, I kind of remembered one thing from the trip, but here I am seeing ruins again. And I felt like it was reordering my whole being. Because I'm thinking, I'm standing there looking at these 3,000 year old temples and thinking, what in the hell can I do that is going to matter? That is going to last? And as I'm listening to the audio of all these rulers that came in for their whole lifetime and ushered in either war or an era of peace, or an era of abundance or whatever they chose to do with their one life, I'm thinking, okay, do we even know. Doesn't even matter what they did. I mean, something standing here that we're looking at today. But does all this stuff, every bit of content that I'm worried about in my current existence, does that shit even matter for a flicker? And if not, what does? But I keep asking, what does matter? And although it's unlikely, I don't. It's unlikely, okay, in the law of averages, that what we're going to do is going to stand in 3,000 years, fuck it. I'm going to play as though that I can make something stand. I'm going to contribute, because what the fuck else am I going to do?
- [60:59]
Sean French
I love it.
- [61:00]
Cheryl Hunter
Oh, God. If it. If it impacts one. There was a. There was a soup kitchen in. I lived in New York City as a young model, as I was overcoming the impact of the kidnapping. And one thing I did was volunteer at a place called the Bowery Mission. And there was this guy, Brother Thomas, they called him. And he had been a recipient, became someone who then provided. And he used to just say, brother Thomas, each one help one. Each one help one. Imagine this world if each one could help one. Just one. And maybe Brother Thomas isn't still alive. It's unlikely. He was very old then. But each one help one could stand 3,000 years, couldn't it? And maybe what we do is not edified in stone, but what is it that we can do that can stand the test of time?
- [62:08]
Sean French
It's unbelievable. I think everybody, you know, listening and watching right now needs to dive into that. One question as we wind down and land the plane here is, you know, what can stand the test of time? I think kindness can stand the test of time. I think caring for one another can stand the test of time. And I think no matter. No matter what political affiliation you are, I know it's a hot topic now. It's like, understand that people on both sides are people, right? And we should dive more into the person than the beliefs. A lot of people have, you know, lost friends or killed friendships because they believe differently like that that's not going to stand the test of time. What's going to stand the test of time is understanding, right? Is understanding where people are coming from, understanding where you can help and where you can make an impact. And I think, you know, one of the things that I always say is impact over income. You know, we, we. You know, if you make an impact and it's a true impact, then, yes, all that other fun will come, like the finances, the popularity, the whatever everybody's searching for. But what I find is most helpful is focusing on smiling and being the person that Lights up the fucking room when you walk into it. And I. And I live by that. And I do my best to light up every room. Every room just with a smile and kindness. Yeah. To a point where my wife's like, you're too fucking nice. That's why people take advantage of you. I go, well, until I'm not. Right. Like, but. But I think that, you know, that's what we need to ask ourselves is what can stand the test of time? What is it that you're doing right now that you can reduce down to the simplest form of, like, I can pass this on to my kids, and they can pass it on to their kids and their kids and their kids and their kids. And that's my legacy. Right. And that is kindness. That is understanding, love. Right. But I just, like, I need to get you here to Florida. We need to. We need to do a part two.
- [64:10]
Cheryl Hunter
Seriously.
- [64:12]
Sean French
Okay. We need a part two. Maybe you and hubby take a trip out to Florida. You know, come over here to the west coast, and we get it done. We get it done. Because that is my wish for 2025. I got Cheryl Hunter sitting right next to me. Right next to me.
- [64:30]
Cheryl Hunter
I am absolutely game.
- [64:32]
Sean French
Cool. We'll figure it out. Thank you so much. Before we take off and say our goodbyes, can you let the audience know how they could find you, potentially work with you and all that good stuff?
- [64:47]
Cheryl Hunter
My website is simply cherylhunter.com. it's C H E R Y L hunter dot com. On social, I'm either Cheryl Hunter or on Instagram. Damn it, Hunter. Cheryl.
- [65:01]
Sean French
You are Hunter Cheryl on Instagram.
- [65:04]
Cheryl Hunter
Damn it.
- [65:07]
Sean French
You were too late.
- [65:08]
Cheryl Hunter
Oh, wait, I'm supposed to embrace that?
- [65:09]
Sean French
Yes, it happens. Embrace it. That's funny. But no, thank you so much. And everybody, we'll make sure that her website and her social media links are in the show notes, so you can easily click there. Go check her out. And if you're not in the business that we're in and you don't need media coverage, I still recommend you go follow her and tune in because she gives a lot to the world. She's an amazing human being, and I sure as hell love her to death. And thank you so much for coming on Cheryl. It's been long overdue and I cannot wait to get this out. And again, guys, find something that you can pass on. Something that will stand the test of time and again, share the show. Please share this message with somebody that needs to hear it, and I'd love to hear your feedback. So until next time guys. I love you and stay determined. Peace out.
- [66:06]
D
So I've tried a lot of protein. You know what I've always found is all the flavors. You can taste artificial flavoring in them. With raw it's exactly that. I don't taste that. It's a clean protein source, tastes great and I'm not putting a lot of things in my body that aren't good for you. The biggest thing that I will say that I love about raw nutrition and bum energy is they're all natural ingredients in the third party tested. So what that means is an actual lab test is to make sure what's in the product is actually what is stated on the label. And then you'll see on the website of raw nutrition that it is signed signed off on. So there's no banned substances in these products. Athletes can use them safely and not get tested and popped for a failed drug test for performance enhancing. You know, ingredients, it's completely safe, guilt free baby.
- [67:06]
Sharp French
Sharp French. What up? This one luck. I let the pain inspire me. I put my all in. Everything I'm doing up until it's done I'm me for the entirety. I put it in overtime. I'll be working Just know I'm a go for mine because I earned it. They watch and I know it's time I confirmed it the whole society determined, determined.