U.S. AC Crisis No One's Talking About: The backstory from Jorge Alvarez, iGasUSA

Summary

Podcast Summary: U.S. AC Crisis No One's Talking About: The Backstory from Jorge Alvarez, iGasUSA

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Determined Society with Shawn French
• Host: Shawn French
• Episode: U.S. AC Crisis No One's Talking About: The Backstory from Jorge Alvarez, iGasUSA
• Release Date: July 11, 2025

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Introduction to the AC Refrigerant Crisis

In this insightful episode of The Determined Society with Shawn French, host Shawn French engages in a critical discussion with George Alvarez, Vice President of Sales at iGasUSA. The conversation centers around a burgeoning crisis in the United States’ air conditioning (AC) industry, stemming from recent regulatory changes impacting refrigerant availability and costs.

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Biden's EPA Mandate and Its Immediate Impact

George Alvarez kickstarts the conversation by addressing the EPA's recent mandate:

“The Biden EPA in October of 2023 mandated that we make this change immediately and within 15 months we are the only country on the planet that is doing this.”
[04:23] George Alvarez

This abrupt enforcement deviates sharply from President Trump’s earlier initiative, which had planned a gradual phase-down of the problematic refrigerant R410A over a 15-year span under the AIM Act signed in 2019. The immediate switch has led to severe shortages and skyrocketing costs for the newer, flammable refrigerants required by the new regulations.

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Supply Chain Dependencies and Economic Strain

Alvarez highlights the dependency on foreign-manufactured refrigerants:

“80% of this refrigerant is being manufactured in China. So it's not even US made.”
[07:18] George Alvarez

This reliance on China, combined with the absence of tariffs or duties under the North American Trade Act, exacerbates the supply shortage. The scarcity has driven up the price of refrigerants by as much as 600%, making both installation and maintenance of AC systems prohibitively expensive for consumers.

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Economic Implications for Consumers and Contractors

The economic fallout is profound, affecting both consumers and AC contractors:

“Americans 50 to 70% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck… it's virtually impossible to mandate and control.”
[04:23] George Alvarez

Consumers face exponentially higher costs for AC system installation and repairs. What once cost between $3,000 to $4,000 now ranges from $8,000 to $11,000 for a typical 3-ton unit. Labor costs have also surged as contractors struggle to offset the increased expense of refrigerants.

Contractors are caught in a bind, needing to explain the steep price hikes to customers while dealing with their own rising operational costs:

“I'm installing an air conditioning system with a deficit of the refrigerant gas necessary because it's just not available.”
[13:36] George Alvarez

This situation undermines consumer trust, as long-standing relationships are strained by the inability to provide cost-effective solutions.

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Safety Concerns Amidst Regulatory Changes

The shift to flammable refrigerants introduces significant safety hazards, particularly in hurricane-prone areas like Florida:

“These refrigerants are officially rated A2L refrigerants… something trips, like maybe even lightning hits my unit, well, now it can catch on fire before it couldn't.”
[10:47] Shawn French & George Alvarez

The increased flammability of the new refrigerants elevates the risk of fires during electrical disturbances, posing a direct threat to homeowners' safety.

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Calls for Policy Reversal and Public Mobilization

In response to the crisis, George Alvarez advocates for reversing the EPA's mandate through public action:

“Go to www.maaca.org… sign the petition. Let’s get this taken care of.”
[24:50] George Alvarez

The petition, titled "Make American Air Conditioning Affordable Again," aims to pressure key figures like Lee Zeldin and President Trump to repeal the problematic regulations. Both Alvarez and French emphasize the urgency of public participation to restore affordable and safe AC solutions.

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Determination and Collective Responsibility

The episode concludes with a powerful message on determination and collective action:

“It means doing the right thing for the right reason and having the resources and the wherewithal and the ability to get it done.”
[43:14] George Alvarez

Shawn French echoes this sentiment, encouraging listeners to take actionable steps, such as signing the petition and spreading awareness, to address the AC crisis effectively.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Determined Society sheds light on a critical and underreported issue affecting millions of Americans. Through the expertise of George Alvarez, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the regulatory missteps, economic burdens, and safety risks associated with the current AC refrigerant crisis. The call to action underscores the podcast's commitment to personal development and societal well-being, urging listeners to engage actively in resolving this national challenge.

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Takeaway: The abrupt EPA mandate on AC refrigerants has led to severe shortages and skyrocketing costs, impacting both consumers and contractors. Immediate public action through petitions and advocacy is essential to reverse these detrimental regulations and restore affordable and safe air conditioning solutions in the United States.

Transcript

[Sean]

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[George Alvarez]

It is my understanding that President Trump may not even believe in global warming. It is speculated that the refrigerant that we've used for the last 30 years is contributing to global warming. There is a phase down that President Trump in signing the AIM act would bring the phase down of the use of 410A gradually within about a 15 year span. The Biden EPA mandated that we make this change immediately. This is going to kill and hurt inflation and worse yet, it's going against President Trump's initiative which is to bring jobs back to the USA. 80% of this refrigerant is being manufactured in China. I don't expect this to be a priority to him, but it will become a priority when he's sweating in his mansion because it's hot and they can't get refrigerant gas to fix the system. Make American air conditioning affordable again.

[Sean]

You know George, America is going through a crisis right now that some people that may have not been touched on this yet or and potentially will be with the summer coming. You're the VP of Sales for for IGAs. You know, walk the audience through what's going on right now, man.

[George Alvarez]

Sure, and it's scary because a lot do not know what's about to happen but unfortunately many in the south already know what's happened and that is the there's not enough refrigerant gas to go around to help the air conditioning contractors install new systems. Moreover, the cost of new air conditioning systems have dramatically increased the installed cost. And the reasoning for both of these issues was a Biden era EPA rule that went into effect on January 1st of this year, which now mandates that all the manufacturers of air conditioning systems to use one of two refrigerants. They're both flammable. Refrigerants in the past have not been flammable, but these both refrigerants are now flammable. And of these two refrigerants, the one being used the most is R454, which is a patented refrigerant. And there just isn't enough going around. The manufacturer rarely have enough to manufacture the systems. But more importantly, when an air conditioning contractor goes out to your house, you're going to find out, number one, they can't top off the system, meaning they can't properly install the system because of the deficit of the refrigerant gas. Number two, they're going to pay much, much more for this refrigerant, as high as 600% more for this patented refrigerant gas that there's just not enough to get around.

[Sean]

That's interesting. So when the Biden administration came in and set this bill or whatever it was effective January 1st to make to, to utilize gases that are, you know, EPA friendly, what does that actually mean? What was being used before and why was it so bad in the beginning?

[George Alvarez]

Okay, well, you have to ask yourself, do you believe in global warming? Some do, some don't. If you believe in global warming, the epa, while the United States ratified the Kigali Agreement, and the Kigali Agreement was in a global agreement where global warming was the issue. And it is speculated that R410, a refrigerant, the refrigerant that we've used for the last 30 years, is contributing to global warming. And if that is true, and if that is the case, there is a phase down that President Trump in signing the AIM act in 2019 that went into effect 2020 would bring the phase down of the use of 410A gradually within about a 15 year span so that we would slowly transition to these new flammable gases. But what happened was the Biden EPA in October of 2023 mandated that we make this change immediately and within 15 months we are the only country on the planet that is doing this. There are over 200 countries that have ratified the Kigali agreement. So many countries are following the phase down, but we are the only country on the planet that mandated for us to make this change within a 15 month period. And it's impossible. It's unachievable, and it's unattainable. That's why today we're suffering. The issue is the summer really isn't even here yet. That's really when we're going to see it. Americans 15 to 70, I'm sorry, 50 to 70% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. And when you're faced with a staggering cost to replace an air conditioning system or even repair an air conditioning system due to the elevated increased price of the refrigerant gas, it's virtually impossible to mandate and control. This is going to kill and hurt inflation. And worse yet, it's going contrary 100% against President Trump's initiative, which is to bring jobs back to the USA. The sad part is this patented refrigerant, 80% of this refrigerant is being manufactured in China. So it's not even US made. It's made in China. It's being shipped from China to Mexico, where the vast majority of all the air conditioning systems utilized in the United States are manufactured, and then crossing the border into the United States with no tariffs, no duties due to the North American Trade Act. So the US Government is not receiving what it should in terms of benefits, such as the tariffs and the duties. But moreover, the consumers are the ones who are faced with paying the bill, footing the bill.

[Sean]

That's, that's interesting. Thank you for that background. You know, to me, when I'm listening, I'm hearing a simple economic thing, right? It's called supply and demand. With, with Biden accelerating that to make it go immediately, right, instead of gradual over how, how, how many years. Now we have a supply issue, right, which is driving up the cost. You know, I, I just, I just see it as that, right? Because, you know, the reason why it's so expensive now is because there's not enough of it, we don't have time to make it. So it's driving up the cost of it. I, I just wonder when things like this, like, you know, you can look at the global warming aspect of it, fine, Like I, I can, I can get down with that. You know, I'm not here to say whether it's real or it's fake. What I am saying is it doesn't sound like this was very well thought through from an American people's pocket standpoint.

[George Alvarez]

Exactly. Exactly. I think that the industry should have had and played a role in this decision. Unfortunately, we weren't. And the result is what's happening today. And I tell everyone, speak to a friend, a neighbor, a colleague, a family member, anyone who has just recently replaced an air conditioning system. You will see what's happening, you will hear what's happening, and you will learn what's happening. I say listen to me, but don't believe me. Talk to your neighbors, friends and colleagues. You're going to see the reality of what's happening. And it's only going to get worse every day that goes by. Now that the summer season is upon us and the only salvation that we feel can take place is to have either the administrator of the EPA, Mr. Lee Zeldin, or President Trump to simply remove the H VAC Management Rule and, and the technology transition rule that was enacted by President under President Biden's epa, just get rid of it. The phase down under the AIM act, the Kigali Agreement, it's already in place. A great analogy is if I'm wearing these, my trousers, and I'm putting on a belt to secure it, but having to put on also suspenders. You don't need a belt and suspenders. We don't need the H VAC Management rule, the Technology transition rule and the AIM Act. Simply go with the AIM act and follow the AIM act like the rest of the world did. That's all we need to do.

[Sean]

I'm wondering why the decision was made, though, Right? Because if the rest of the world is following a certain, you know, trend or a certain cadence on this, right. It's like, why, why would we jump the gun and, and cut all the other two gases off immediately? Because here's the other thing that I heard you say, and I want to back up for the audience, is that those other gases were not flammable. These other two gases are flammable. So when I'm looking at this as a homeowner. Homeowner, sorry. And I'm, I'm in Florida and it's about to be hurricane season. There's a couple things that really concern me, George. Is, is okay if something goes through and something trips, like maybe even lightning hits my unit, well, now it can catch on fire before it couldn't. Right. So there's a lot of different things at play here. Flammability. And then also just the hurricane in general taking out my unit. Now I'm forced in these other homeowners are forced in the southern states that are in hurricane alley to deal with a bigger issue than they're ready for.

[George Alvarez]

Exactly. These refrigerants are officially rated A2L refrigerants. And how and why the decision was made. I wish I was involved with the EPA back in October of 2023. I wish I would have consulted or been consulted with back in October 2023. The only logical explanation they could have would be simply to speed up the migration to the new non global warming potential gases. Other than that, I can't understand why they would have done what they've done.

[Sean]

Yeah, I can appreciate the overall thought of if this isn't environmentally friendly, let's make a move. But to move so quickly to a point where it puts people in jeopardy, like you said, 50. What? 50 to 60% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

[George Alvarez]

Exactly. And that's a reality. And when you have to repair an air conditioning system and we're talking a repair that might have cost you 150 to 200 now costing you 6 to $800, or to replace a system, look at the air conditioning system cost. 15 months ago, 18 months ago, a 3 ton air conditioner would be installed for 3 to $4,000 on average. That same air conditioner today, minimum $8,000 to $11,000. So the costs associated with the purchase and installation of air conditioning systems are now greatly, greatly increased. And unfortunately, the consumers who are going to be experiencing problems this summer are going to pay the bill. And it's expected and calculated that 23 to 25 billion dollars in additional dollars will be spent in 2025 alone for air conditioning systems due to these two rules that the EPA enacted and it needs to change. It can't happen. America can't afford to pay an additional $25 billion for air conditioning for no reason at all.

[Sean]

Man. You know, when you're talking about just the cost of the gas and the things, you know, from 3,000 to 8 to 11,000, that's one thing, right? But then you look at, you talked about installation, that's cost of labor. Now these, these companies have to pay their people, their installers, you know, a premium to offset, right? They have to, they have to charge so much money for that labor aspect of it now. And so the consumer is just not getting hit on the cost of the gas or the tariffs or the, you know, the parts that they can't even get or whatever, right? They're getting hit on the installation, they're getting hit on the labor.

[George Alvarez]

Well, you're Right. And, but look at the contractor's position as well. The contractor has the unfortunate role of convincing the consumer to replace the air conditioning system because it's required, but then informing them that they're not able to have the air, the refrigerant necessary to properly install the system. So in many cases they're installing an air conditioning system with a deficit of the refrigerant gas necessary because it's just not available. These cylinders are refrigerant gas. The 454B is the nomenclature of the refrigerant gas. This refrigerant gas, it comes in roughly a 20 to 21 pound cylinder. This 20 to 21 pound cylinder, traditionally based on typical refrigerant costs, such as 410A would typically cost 50 to $75 for, for that volume of refrigerant gas, maybe $90 for that volume of gas. With four hundred and fifty four. That cylinder is now $1,000 if you can find it. So that's, it's a tremendous cost. And that's where the issues truly lie. The contractors facing the consumers and explaining to the consumers, I've got your air conditioning system. Yes, it costs a lot more and guess what? I don't have and I can't find the refrigerant necessary to, to properly install your education system.

[Sean]

How do, so I'm like thinking of, of a lot of different things. You know, I, I, I'm thinking of the danger behind this. Let's say someone's AC unit goes out and they have a young child and they're, and they're forced to be in a home that doesn't have any ac. Now that child dehydrates. So they're not only just dealing with that, but they're having to go and, and take their child to the hospital to get, you know, fluids to get into an area where they can cool down. I see so many different things going on here, man. Like it. I mean, that's the father in me, right? I'm thinking damn.

[George Alvarez]

Absolutely, absolutely. So you're right. And it's not only the safety at home, but the safety in the wholesale distribution houses that will inventory this refrigerant gas. They're now mandated. And it's different per municipality, per state. So there isn't one rule that will govern the whole United States? No. Every municipality in every state of this country will have a specific fire rule on how you will store and Transport. Then the DOT, the US DOT, there are restrictions regarding A2O refrigerants and the transportation of A2L refrigerants. So these are the many issues that have come to light and the increase in costs are associated to all of these restrictions and all of these changes and mandates and leak detection systems for the refrigeration, the cold chain. When you look at the supermarkets, the changes because of these rules. It used to be a supermarket if a, say a Publix or a Kroger, if any of their stores had a leak in any of their refrigeration systems, they would simply repair the leak and replace the refrigerant that leaked out. Well, with these new rules, if you lost more than 15 pounds of refrigerant in that system, you must now under the laws, recharge the systems with reclaimed refrigerant. You can no longer use new virgin refrigerant. You must utilize reclaimed refrigerant which is, you can't even find and it's very, very expensive. And if you can't do that, these stores are forced to replace their systems with a whole new refrigeration systems. And we're talking a refrigeration system of a rack system in a supermarket may cost minimum a hundred thousand to half a million dollars per store. So when you look at very large franchises, very large corporations, we're talking about a capital investment that is not, it's just not in the budget. But more importantly, what about the small mom and pop grocery stores?

[Sean]

That's exactly where I was going in my mind with it, man.

[George Alvarez]

Exactly. How do they afford. We're talking single digit profit margins that many of these companies are, are achieving. How do you utilize the, the, the, the, the capital that you have to invest in such a capital expenditure? You can't. So it's unrealistic. It's as if the EPA never really thought this out and it's, it really shouldn't be this way. That's why there's hope. The hope is that the word gets out to Lee Zeldin and, or President Trump and they will end it and remove it because they're the only ones left that can do it.

[Sean]

Let me ask you a question about Zeldin. You would, you would think he would know, right? I'm, I'm assuming right. He's part of the epa. Correct? Like, correct. Does he not know this is going on? Does he not know this is an issue?

[George Alvarez]

I have to assume that he knows. But I, again, I'm assuming I would assume that Lee Zeldin doesn't have the time to speak to me or anybody else in my position. But I'm sure that his aides do, and his aides hopefully have shared this information with Lee Zeldin. There has been talk that Lee Zeldin is aware of the issue, but not the magnitude of the issue. And that's where I think the crescendo of this issue is imminent. It's going to happen soon. The heat is here. And when enough of the right people have this issue that it will be forced to be dealt with. Because, remember, nobody is immune to this, Sean. It doesn't matter. It could be. Exactly if. And that's why nobody is immune to this. And when it affects them or somebody they know or love, then hopefully they will do something about it.

[Sean]

You know, I can appreciate, you know, Lee Zeldin, like, maybe not getting the information or, or maybe just saying, hey, I'm too busy to even deal with this. But to me, being involved in that organization, it, to me, it's almost a prerequisite. Now, from Trump's standpoint, there's a lot of crazy things going on in the world, right? You had the riots out in la, then you had everything going on with Iran this past weekend. But, but, but for it to get on his desk, like, that's the last part, right? Because it can't go to the, to the floor now. We're past that. It has to be. Yeah, like, and I want the audience to really understand that, like, it cannot be voted on. Trump literally has to go and say no and sign it. Like, we are reverting back. We're going to do a slow fade into this thing. This is not good for the American people. This is very difficult. I just, it's hard for me, dude, because, like, I am such a, I am, I'm such a softy George, because, like, you know, and again, you know, I'm nowhere near as busy as Donald Trump or even Mr. Lee Zeldin. But I can tell you something. If I do something right, and I know it's going to impact somebody in a negative way, or I'm seeing something, I do whatever I can to bring it to the forefront and try to fix it.

[George Alvarez]

Sean, you're right on. I mean, this is about when you, Your first question, you know, right or wrong or good or bad, this is, this is doing the right thing for the right people. And, and it's my understanding that President Trump may not even believe in global warming. So I, that's why I truly believe that if he caught wind of this, and I understand he's very busy, and I, I don't expect this to be a priority to him. But it will become a priority when he's sweating in his, in his mansion or his family members are sweating because it's hot and they can't get refrigerant gas to fix the system. And that's when it will come to light. And that's why I'm saying the crescendo will be soon. It's going to happen. It's here now. But the heat, the sustained heat nationwide hasn't been here. We've been very hot in the south, especially in Florida, which is where our headquarters, our world headquarters are. But as soon as the rest of this country has sustained heat for any period of time, that's when we will experience the major issues.

[Sean]

You know, I'm wondering, my question to you is how, how do some of these small to midsize businesses, how are they dealing with, with this issue? Right? Because there's, you go, you know, you're in Florida. I mean, Florida is like the Mecca for small to midsize businesses, right? Mom Pops, like there's a lot of H Vac companies run around here in southwest Florida. How do you think they're feeling about this situation? How is it impacting them?

[George Alvarez]

Well, that's funny that you mentioned that because just today the Air Conditioning Contractors association of Florida, I had a long conversation with them today because they're the voice of the contractor and they're the ones who are searching and pleading for an answer. I've been in many forums in the last 12 weeks or venues in the last 12 weeks where I've been with many of the manufacturers of air conditioning systems, many of the manufacturers of refrigerant gas, where we've, where we've had the forum and the ability and the venue for the contractors to reach out and ask questions. And the, the overwhelming concern with the air conditioning contractors is the lack of answers as to why this is happening or what the solution is. So they've been in many of these forums where they, they're listening to the problem and they know and understand the problem and they're dealing with the consumers and they simply want an answer, how and when will this be resolved? And nobody, nobody, nobody can answer that question. So at this point, the only thing that can happen is, is to either have Mr. Lee Zeldin or Mr. President Trump do something about it.

[Sean]

We, so Lee Zeldin can actually make that move too. He doesn't even need Trump. He can make it.

[George Alvarez]

Either one of the two have the ability to have this taken care of. To your point, earlier, we did work with the Senate and the House and to support two separate resolutions for Congress to vote on, which unfortunately just never made it, never gained enough support. And at this point, as you stated, the time has passed. So at this point, we have to petition Mr. Zeldin and Mr. Trump to get this fixed, get this done.

[Sean]

Well, you know, for the people listening and watching, is, is there a way to do that? You know, petition it? Like, is there, is there a website? What, what are the resources to start that type of movement?

[George Alvarez]

Go to www.ma a c a a.org Make American Air Conditioning Affordable Again.org Very nice.

[Sean]

That's a nice campaign that you would think that you would think Trump would get behind, man.

[George Alvarez]

Right, right. And I would hope and simply go to the website and go to change. There's a link to change.org There's a petition. And this petition will be forwarded to Lee Zeldin and to President Trump. And that's why we're asking for anyone and everyone who, who has an air conditioning system or cares about what's happening to please go to the website maaac.org hit the link, hit the support button and sign the petition. Let's get this taken care of. We're not talking about hurting the environment because we respect the mat, we respect the phase down. We believe in the phase down. We simply do not feel that we should be forced to do it right away and forced to switch to one of two refrigerants and be the only country on the planet forced to do so. That's true.

[Sean]

So M double A C double a dot org Go there. You know, I, I so thank you for that because I'm actually asking for my household as well. Right. Like, I want to know how at least I can have some peace of mind if I take action on something. And to your point, like, yes, we, we want to respect these, this changeover, but at the same time we're to be so quick and so, so hasty to a point where there's not enough gas. Let me ask you this question. How many companies are making these two gases?

[George Alvarez]

It's patented and there's two companies that own the patent.

[Sean]

So a duopoly. Keep going. Wow.

[George Alvarez]

It is what it is. Not much else to say.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[George Alvarez]

My issue, and I think the industry issue really isn't with the, the two main bachelors or with the patent. It really is with the epa because why mandate that we as an industry, the air conditioning industry and the refrigeration industry, why mandate that we switch immediately to a 700 GWp gas or lower when no other country on the planet ever did this or ever came up. This why there's no reason for it. GWP is global warming potential. Each refrigerant gas has its own global warming potential. It's rated from zero to 10,000.

[Sean]

Okay.

[George Alvarez]

And the lower the GWP, the less probability that it will contribute to global warming. And the EPA said, well, you must be 700 GWP or lower. There are only two gases that are below 700 GWP. One is 454B, which is about 460 GWP, and the other is R32 which is about 680 GWP. So it's just below the 700 threshold. So these are the only two gases that are allowed to be utilized in the United States for new air conditioning systems. And as of January 1, 2025. 2025. And that's where this issue comes stems from.

[Sean]

That's interesting. What was the, the global warming potential on the gases that were used prior.

[George Alvarez]

To 20 and the range 2800. But understand this, Sean. The phase down gives the US under the Kigali agreement, it gives us a threshold, a limit of gases that we can utilize. And they, and, and actually calculate when the molecules the 410A, although it's 2800 is still within the limits. When you look at the threshold that the AIM act has held and, and the, the threshold continues to be lowered as years go down that way it will naturally and, and, and, and it would naturally bring the evolution to a new gas or switch to a new gas based on market conditions. And that's how typically it has been done. That's how the rest of the world is doing it. And that's how it should be. Now the manufacturers should have, based on calculations of how much refrigerant gas they had, they need and what the threshold is at that given year, utilize any gas they want to as long as they stay below the threshold. And that if we, if we did that, and that's the heart of the AIM at, we would be fine. And it would take about 10 to 15 years to transition to the newer gases. But the fact that they said starting, the EPA said that starting January 1, you must switch to a gas at 700 or below, automatically limiting it to two refrigerants and you have 15 months to do it in it just through the whole industry in a world, you.

[Sean]

Know, it's interesting and I, and I can't help but to think of this. It's one thing for an organization to make decisions based on something that will never impact them. They're literally signing on the dotted line and they know they could potentially be potentially impacted. Like, exactly.

[George Alvarez]

It's like who's thinking about what the.

[Sean]

Like what do you even. Like, how does that even make sense? Anything they would have been like, should have been like, wait a second, we're going to do this gradual. We can't do this right away. Everybody's going to be impacted. This just isn't one segment of people. And even then it's still messed up, man. Because I'm just thinking about all those inner city, you know, communities.

[George Alvarez]

Exactly, exactly. I mean, how about the nursing homes, the hospitals? What's going to happen? And, and that's why I hope that the solution and, or that the resolution is, is handled quickly because it really does need to be faced and challenged and repealed immediately, as soon as possible. And just knowing that there is the ability to get that done. It's my responsibility. It's your responsibility. It's our respons. Collective responsibility to share the word, get everybody involved and have the president and, or Lee Zeldin listen. I believe that's all it's going to take. They need to hear it from us. And we're. Fortunately, we live in a world where we can and will have our voice shared and heard. So I challenge everybody to go to the website, sign the petition, talk to your neighbors, talk to your friends, talk to everybody. You know, let's get the word out, let's get this changed and let's fix this problem that exists today.

[Sean]

I like it. You know, and that's why I'm here, right? I, I absolutely. When I, when I was approached with this, I'm like, absolutely. This is a responsibility, not just to tell a story about what's happening, you know, as a human interest piece, but to really filter the information to the listener so they're aware of what's going on. My only hope is to the audience that you guys take action on this. It's going to take you five to ten minutes to go sign a petition that could potentially impact you or your mom or your grandparent. Like, it, it, it, it's, it's, it doesn't take much to, to be a part of the movement that helps this. You know, you've been doing a lot, right? You've been, you've been on some news channels and some things like that. Walk, walk me through that how it's been for you. Have many people been enlightened by the Information that you give and how. And then the second part would be, how close do you think we really are from getting enough people to sign something like this in order to overturn it?

[George Alvarez]

Good question. We're in our infancy stage regarding how close we are because we. We literally began. The website became live a week ago. The. The petition became live a week ago. Although we've been petitioning for change and advocacy, working with senators and working with the House and the Senate and Congress for the last three months. But it's only been within the last week that we decided, let's go to the people, because the people are the ones who are going to pay. The contractors are the ones who are facing the consumers. So let's go to the contractors. Let's go to the people and share the story with the people and allow them to act. So that. That's. That's really what's happened. I was very pleased today. I had one of my colleagues here in the office today say, george, I was on the phone today with a customer in California, and they said that they heard that there's a movement to make this change. And I said, are you serious? In California? I haven't spoken to anybody in California, but I have been on many, as you stated, TV programs or blogs and vlogs. And I. I would like to think that maybe it is spreading. Maybe people are listening, maybe people are talking, maybe people are sharing. And if that truly is the case, that's what America is all about, people helping people, and us as a nation standing together and fighting for what's right. And that's all this is. Let's fix this. It's a problem. Let's fix it.

[Sean]

The thing that I love most about all of what you're saying is, is you're not challenging the decision. You're challenging the implementation. See, I think everything in life is about implementation and execution, right? How you implement a strategy. Strategy can change the overall complexion of the execution. And what we have here is just, to me is just like, you know, a blindfold. Pin the tail on the donkey. Like I. I've just. That's just the way I see it.

[George Alvarez]

Sean, you're right. You're right. And unfortunately, we live in a world with a lot of greed, and that's the reality. And it's never. It's always been this way, and it hasn't changed, and it's not going to change. But when people look at me and look at what we're doing and. And look at what we get out of this, I get nothing. Out of this.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[George Alvarez]

My motivation is helping people, ensuring them doing the right thing. And that's what, in the spirit of everything we're doing and saying. It's about doing right for all Americans. Doesn't matter your race, color, it doesn't matter whether you're wealthy. Nothing matters. You're a human being and you're living here in the United States and you are being taken advantage of as an American citizen. If you own an air conditioning system, let's fix it, guys. It's not that difficult.

[Sean]

I have to ask this question because as we're sitting here talking, I'm hearing your side of it. Is there anybody on the opposition side of it that says, no, this is like a really good thing, and here's why I want to spend more money because of XYZ and it. And it can't be just because of global warming. Like, come on. Like, that's a great question.

[George Alvarez]

I. I can tell you I haven't heard anybody. One person who says, george, I do not agree with you, George, I oppose your thoughts and your statements because of never happened, not one time.

[Sean]

So it's interesting.

[George Alvarez]

I gotta believe people are gonna listen to this and they're gonna say, he's right. Let's get this done. Let's spread the word. Let's get this done.

[Sean]

Because I'm. I'm like thinking of certain things that I could do right on my end to get people to that link and. And get people to take action. And I'm almost, like, certain things that I will put out there. You always know, like, here's the opposition, right? Here's what. Here's the argument on the other side. And I just don't see how there could be one here. Because this isn't about a divisive, you know, a divisive thing. It's like, it's not, you know, two ends of the spectrum. It's like, hey, this literally affects all of us. Like, quite. Quite literally, you know, and, you know, I'm sitting here freaking out. I'm like, damn, I hope my AC doesn't go out this. This summer. Because. Because every single summer, something happens here in Florida to your ac, whether it's leaking or, you know, flooding. Because it's frozen, it has to be, you know, vacuumed out. You would have to think that some of these AC companies and these contractors are going to also charge more label labor for those things as well, to offset things.

[George Alvarez]

Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. And hence why I mentioned the fact that speaking to the air conditioning Contractors here in Florida. It is a major issue and their concern is how we deal with this for our consumers. They, they're unfortunately faced with the position where they're working on the system with the consumer and they're facing the consumer and not being able to resolve their issue, or worse yet, resolving their issue, but with an astronomical cost associated with doing so. It puts them in a very bad situation. So even the air conditioning contractors are victims in this as well.

[Sean]

So one of my, so my H VAC contractor is a good friend of mine.

[George Alvarez]

Okay, did you call them and ask him?

[Sean]

I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm fixing too. As soon as I leave here, I was like, hey man, I just have this conversation you got to talk to you about. He might lose his shit, man. But the thing that I'm thinking of is like, what's that?

[George Alvarez]

You'll probably know more about it now than he does, man.

[Sean]

I might, he might have to hire me, you know. Yeah, but I have to hire me, get the word out. But no, I'm thinking of like, you know, these certain contractors, right? You know, a lot of contractors, when they give a quote or they go to present somebody like this is how much it's going to cost. Like I, I'm starting to try to put myself in their shoes of having to say, hey, in the past it was three grand, but now it's 11 or 12. How do they feel about that? And it's not their fault. It's not their fault they can't do about it, man. But they still have to be that messenger, you know?

[George Alvarez]

Exactly. They were not trained. No one. It's the school of hard knocks. You learn the hard way on how you're going to share this information with the consumer, but moreover, how to convince them that this is the reality we live in and there's nothing they can do about it. And unfortunately for many contractors, that's simply going to mean the consumer is going to question their integrity. Because the first time, if you're accustomed to paying X dollars for air conditioning systems or service on air conditioning systems over your last 10 or 15 years of owning systems, and then all of a sudden somebody this year comes to you and says it's this much, that consumer's gonna shop. And that contractor who had a great customer that they dealt with with the last 10 years, now it's a liability for them. This customer, who I really thought was a loyal customer and really believed in me, is now questioning me because these numbers are unrealistic. This can't be true. This is happening. And I've had contractors tell me this. And that puts them, you know, that hurts their P and L because they're losing business. They're being challenged by the consumers and questioned by the consumers. And that's, it's not right. They shouldn't be in that position. They're caught in the middle between the manufacturers of the air conditioning systems who are forced to charge more and the consumer who doesn't have the money necessary to pay the higher price. So that's a bad position to be in as a contractor. I would not want to be a contractor today.

[Sean]

No, I mean that, that's my point. Right. Like you're hitting the nail on the head. It's, it's, they're putting the contractor in a position to not be trusted and lose. Like, hey, I used to work with this H Vac company. Don't go to them because they are greedy. They gave me a quote for $11,000 for a new unit when I know it cost me three. That's their paradigm. That's what they're seeing the world in.

[George Alvarez]

Right.

[Sean]

Their perspective. So it's like, yes, in the past that is true, but you don't have all the information. So imagine the small to mid size H Vac company here in Florida loses what, maybe 15, 20 customers. Think about what that looks like on a maintenance plan. How much money are they losing? Their bottom line. And then boom. Right? That puts small companies out of business.

[George Alvarez]

Exactly, exactly. Many companies have worked generational. There's. I know air conditioning companies that are second and third generation work very, very hard. Not one to stay in business that long and to build a reputation, but then to have it challenged and questioned, that's it's happening today. And every single contractor I talk to, they're faced with that challenge today and how they resolve the issue and confront their customer. It's a very difficult situation to be in. That's why I would not want to be in their shoes today. I really feel for them today.

[Sean]

Oh, man. You know what, George, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing what's going on in this environment and bringing some light to it for some of the listeners. I can guarantee you a bulk of them haven't heard this before, haven't seen this before, and, and now they're privy to the information so they can go out and do what they do. But as we land the plane, I want to ask you one more question. And it's one I ask on every show. This is the determined society, right that's what this is called when this show is conceived. I thought to myself, I just want to wake up in a society that is determined to chase their dreams no matter how they feel emotionally about it at that time. So my question to you is, what does determination mean to you?

[George Alvarez]

It means doing the right thing for the right reason and having the resources and the wherewithal and the ability to get it done. And that's what it's about to me. And I believe that that's exactly what I'm doing. That's exactly what you're doing. Doing the right thing for the right reason, to the right people.

[Sean]

I love it. I love it. George. Thank you so much. George Alvarez Igas the Best for Less. Go check them out. M A A C A A.org sign the petition. Overturn this bad boy guys. Be part of the movement so you guys don't have to pay astronomical prices for your units. And until next time, guys, stay determined.

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