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The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Jürgen Klopp: Would You Go Back To Manage LFC...? The Real Reason I Fell In Love With Liverpool!
02:29:06
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- [00:00]
Jürgen Klopp
It was an intense time. We had to win football games. But all the rest was on my plate as well. I need a break and you cannot do that in that business. You cannot say, give me a year. See you later.
- [00:11]
Steven Bartlett
So it begs the question, do you think you could ever go back and manage Liverpool again?
- [00:18]
Jürgen Klopp
It's possible.
- [00:19]
Steven Bartlett
So what would it take? You changed a club, you changed the city. You arrived at a time when clubs were in a period of dysfunction. To bring that club back to its glory. And you did that over and over and over again.
- [00:33]
Jürgen Klopp
How to win in a very decisive moment, you have to be the best team. And to be the best team, everybody has to buy into that team and walk through fire together.
- [00:43]
Steven Bartlett
How do I get people to walk through fire?
- [00:45]
Jürgen Klopp
I better go back to the start. Growing up, my mom was very caring. She loved people and my dad had expectations. The problem was I was absolutely useless in most of the things. Even with football, my teammates were better than me and I thought, I only can get on that level if from the first until last minute, I was a warrior on the pit. But it made me the guy I am today. And so my team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band because you have 90 minutes and there's no guarantee to get anything. But the only chance to get something is to give you all. So you want to have the maximum success. Don't waste time with holding back.
- [01:21]
Steven Bartlett
I want to know why Manchester United didn't.
- [01:23]
Jürgen Klopp
No, they tried. But there are some reasons in that conversation which I didn't like.
- [01:28]
Steven Bartlett
Arnie Slot coming in after you and didn't change much.
- [01:31]
Jürgen Klopp
That's super smart, not changing much and all of a sudden you win the league by some distance.
- [01:35]
Steven Bartlett
But this year Liverpool have spent what, 450 odd million? You never had a transfer window like that.
- [01:40]
Jürgen Klopp
Nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can spend that.
- [01:44]
Steven Bartlett
You seem to always be successful. How does someone succeed you?
- [01:47]
Jürgen Klopp
You want to be able to become the best team in England, you need to.
- [02:00]
Steven Bartlett
Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show. Week after week means the world to all of us. And this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, Please join the 24% of people that listen to this podcast regularly and follow us on this app. Here's a promise I'm going to make to you. I'm going to do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can to now and into the future. We're going to deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're going to continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. To understand you and the man and the anomaly that you went on to be in your career and still are, what do I need to understand about your very earliest context, where you came from and how can you point out to me how that very early context created the person you are today and that everybody knows you to be?
- [03:06]
Jürgen Klopp
I think we all are who we are because the environment we grew up. My dad was a salesman and my mom came from a family. My grandma had a brewery and she worked there, blah, blah, blah and all these kind of things. But her only purpose was her kids. She loved me more than her own life, definitely. And my dad had expectations. He loved me as well, but he had expectations. But my mom didn't. So my mom was just happy that I was there. And my dad had always something where he was not really happy with and all the things my dad wanted me to do, I loved doing. So he wanted me to be a sports guy. Each sport, tennis, skiing, football, that was his life. So he wanted that. His son is good at that and he loved doing it. If I would have been, I don't know, sitting at home and drawing or whatever, he would every day take me out and say, go outside and play something. But then pretty quick when I became better, it was never good enough. And I was he always. So that was the process. So that's how I was brought up. That's him. That's definitely him. Yeah. Can I keep this picture?
- [04:19]
Steven Bartlett
Of course you can keep.
- [04:20]
Jürgen Klopp
That's good. That's good because I have them, but I'm not sure where. Yeah. Exactly. Good looking guy. Yeah.
- [04:28]
Steven Bartlett
Was he a tough, tough man?
- [04:32]
Jürgen Klopp
I. It's not long ago. I never. I never got hit by whatever. Never, never, never. He was just. He wanted to. To bring the best out of me. I think that was what he wanted. Tough in a way. Yeah. How people who are brought up in. In that time, probably. But not tough. Endless that you thought, you don't want to have to do anything with him. No, no, no. I loved him to bits and he loved me. He was very proud, but never said it and these kind of things. So he was a good guy, a really good guy. But with his son, he Wanted him to be ambitious and was a bit afraid that I might be not ambitious enough. So.
- [05:10]
Steven Bartlett
Competitive man, I hear.
- [05:11]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [05:13]
Steven Bartlett
Reading about stories of him racing you on ski slopes and in sprint races and never letting you win.
- [05:19]
Jürgen Klopp
That's true. Who knows if it was right? Probably it was right. I don't know. It was not nice. In a way, when you tell the story, it's like, my God, come on, let the poor boy win or whatever. He had no chance. It's just you stand on the touchline and you run to the halfway line.
- [05:34]
Steven Bartlett
And when you. When you look back over the course of your career, are there moments where you have flashback to lessons that he taught you or principles or values that he taught you, that you think, gosh, I got that from my dad.
- [05:46]
Jürgen Klopp
The one skill I realized that my dad had without knowing that time it was a skill he could speak publicly. You don't know that you have that. But I have it today. I know it. I don't care if a camera is in my face or whatever. I say what I have to say in that moment without being too worried. What might people think about it if I'm convinced it's right? And I say talking in public is not a problem. It's probably from him. My love for people unintentionally is from my mom. So this mix of a very confident and a very caring, very confident dad and very caring mom is where I was brought up in the middle of it.
- [06:31]
Steven Bartlett
And you wanted to be a doctor before. Before then. So you were aiming to be a doctor that didn't work out.
- [06:37]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, that's true.
- [06:38]
Steven Bartlett
Why? Dr.
- [06:41]
Jürgen Klopp
No, it was always something I wanted to do. So in all this wonderful upbringing, it was pretty clear the money is an issue. Not in a sense that we didn't have enough. We always had kind of enough. But I remember discussions, bad discussions about money, arguments, if you want. Who spent that, who spent that? I was the little one that just sat around and listened to it. But there was a moment in my life when I realized I have to earn a lot of money, that I can sort it all. I wanted to earn money to not having this kind of discussions with my wife or with the kids or whatever. So it grew as a thought. When you are a young man and you think, what could you do with life? And for me, it was clear, I cannot earn my money with football. Because in my mind, I wasn't good enough. And then I got surprised by some people. They thought, oh, there's something that could be interesting.
- [07:37]
Steven Bartlett
What did they See in you as a football player, what was it that they, they saw in you as a young man? Because I've got all these wonderful photos of you as a young player and oh my God.
- [07:51]
Jürgen Klopp
So in my village, I was the best player in my village. So I scored the goals, I was the fastest. All this guy, this physical talent. I was really fast. Later on, when I studied sports science, I could jump far, I could jump high, all these kind of things. So it was a physical talent. The problem was small spaces technique. That was my problem. So what they saw probably is the attitude. I was a warrior on the pitch. It was difficult to beat me, stuff like this, to kick me out of the game or get me out of the game. I was really focused. I had a really good attitude for the game, but I didn't see it. So I was not happy. I was literally surprised by the approach from professional football clubs. I didn't think, who's coming? So it was like the question was, are you number seven from the game before? Yeah. Oh, come on, let's have a chat. Do you want to come to Frankfurt? That was the question. It was before. That was 87 and you were 20.
- [08:56]
Steven Bartlett
Years old at the time when you went to Frankfurt. Yeah, well, I mean, a lot happens in your 20th year of life. Yeah, a lot happens.
- [09:02]
Jürgen Klopp
That was a change. Wow. Yeah, I came to Frankfurt. I. It didn't take long that I met Mark's mom.
- [09:13]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah, your son's mom.
- [09:14]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then she got pregnant and December 88, I became a father.
- [09:24]
Steven Bartlett
Were you scared? 20 years old, become a father?
- [09:27]
Jürgen Klopp
Massively. When I heard she's pregnant, I wanted to run away, go, oh God, it's not me. So the moment when I. When I got aware of the fact that I will be a dad, I was really scared. The night, the 13th of December of December 1988, when Mark was born, was the night when I became an adult and the knight who changed my life in the right direction. From that moment on, I was always more an adult than all the other people in my age group. So they were at the university, they weren't parties, I couldn't go. They went on holiday, I couldn't. I played football, low wages, third division Germany had two other jobs, one in the morning, one at night and playing semi professional football. That taught me the discipline I didn't have to learn at home because I had no, no jobs to do in the house. So I got it a bit later. But it made me the guy I.
- [10:31]
Steven Bartlett
Am today because of that experience. When you Became a manager yourself. Did that become a bit of a personal reference point to understand the individuals that you were managing? Because if you were managing a 21 year old dad versus a 21 year old that didn't have kids, did you understand them to be different? One is in your, you know, in your own words. One is potentially a man and an adult.
- [10:58]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [10:58]
Steven Bartlett
And one doesn't know what that is. Yeah.
- [11:00]
Jürgen Klopp
Yes, of course. I noticed what I say. I like people and I'm super curious. Everybody has a story to tell, so I want to hear it.
- [11:06]
Steven Bartlett
I think. I think ask that question in part because I heard stories that Sir Alex Ferguson would prefer players who had a girlfriend or a wife and kids.
- [11:15]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [11:15]
Steven Bartlett
And I was wondering if there's any truth to that, if they have a different stability or.
- [11:20]
Jürgen Klopp
Oh, it's probably. Yeah. There couple problems. You can. You can have a great partner, married or not, and then everything is fine. It's the wrong partner. It's not great. You have no partner. Not great for some. And you have too many. It's not great. So there are so many things in life. So I ever never. I never thought about that. I heard about it at coaches Germany. Very successful manager. Otto Rehagel. I love him to bits. Fantastic guy he had as well. I think he said it once as well that he wants married players because they go home and stuff like this. That's not. That's one part of the personality but not the overwhelming or the most decisive or whatever. So it's like. And you need. On the football is a football game. You need the cheeky but the cheeky ones as well. So they need them. The one who unders the street smart. You need as well. They get out of situations in life and on the pitch stuff like this. So it's a mix of everything. That's what I loved about football teams. I treated them, let me say, 50% of the time completely the same. And 50% what he needs. What he needs, what he needs. But in front of the other outdoor teammates. So people players came to me. Why do you treat me like that? You would never say that to him. No. Because he's from Argentina, grew up without a window and you are from Munich and everything was fine. You want me to treat you like him? Really? To bring all these people from different areas in the world together. You cannot expect that they all tick the same way. It's just not possible. Growing up in Germany is obviously different to growing up in. In Senegal. It is different. So. But then we come together in our own dressing Room. And then everybody says, oh, this is the rule for all of you. And yeah, be in time, of course, for all easy. But then all the other stuff, come on, calm down. You want, want a, a football team full of different skill sets, full of different talent, full of different personality. You want that because that's what you need. That's what makes you unpredictable. But then you put just one, I don't know, helmet over it and say, so that's for all of you. That's how we go. There are moments in the game where they have to act like that. In all the other moments, they have to be themselves. So treat them like that.
- [13:47]
Steven Bartlett
This is one of the most shocking, counterintuitive ideas that I heard from players with other managers, specifically because I've just interviewed so many of Saralex Ferguson's former players. One of the shocking things they all said was that he treated people differently. And to hear you say the same thing as well, it really is the opposite of what you hear in business. In business you hear that you have to be a consistent leader, that you have to be consistent, treat people the same. But in the world of football, people like you tell me that's my true.
- [14:20]
Jürgen Klopp
I think in business, in life, it's the same. So to lead as number one thing, you lead yourself. So that's the first. In the morning you stand up, you have to kick your own button and say, come on, it's not a great estate, but anyhow, we go. And then the people you lead, you need to understand, to do it properly. So now that means you talk to them, you listen to them, you ask them, where are you from, what's your background, what are we doing here and there, blah, blah, and why did you that and stuff like this. So it means it's already in that conversation. It's clear he's different to the other guy. It's not about the rules like punctuality early in laid out, not about these kind of things. But how can we get the best out of people if you treat them all the same? It's. It's crazy. It's in business, I, I don't think it is like that, but I've never, I only worked in this football business. Or maybe it's just working here. I cannot see that. For me it's super important that you really pick the individual from where it stands, not from where you want it to be. No, actually what it actually is.
- [15:23]
Steven Bartlett
Can you give me an example that I would know of two people that you treated differently and why you Made the decision to treat them differently based on their origin.
- [15:33]
Jürgen Klopp
So you have a young player as an example. So Trent Alexander Arnold comes up to the first team and James Milner is already, I don't know, 31 or whatever he was that time. So James makes clear, first and foremost that Trent doesn't go crazy because he sorts all these kind of things. But there's so many things just as an example. But James doesn't have to do this and that because, you know, he is doing it anyway. So for Trent, you still have to educate the boy. This example, which you probably didn't think of, but it explains how different they are. There are different age groups. One is 16 or 17 and the other one is 33. So that shows already that's not possible. So you are talking about the rules in football. So everybody has to work hard. Everybody has to do. In my case, everybody has to defend the shit out of the opposition team. So that's. Everybody has to buy into that. There's no, no, no, no. I always said if. If you're not Lionel Messi, you have to defend. You have. You have to defend. So because I never had Leo Messi. So they all had to defend, for example. Everybody has to do that. But then to get there that they really grow together as a group. In a group. Everybody accepts that they are different. Otherwise we are, I don't know, an army and they are different. But it's not just because we are the same shirt. We have all our own qualities. So. And to bring them to life or let them shine. Yeah, you have to be to have to get treated in the right way. And that's what I love to figure out. How is that possible? That was the conversations. I had the conversation with players during a season. Of course there were football talks, but we had already enough meetings. The most important conversations were the private conversations when the players not training. Well, could be, could that he just is not ready for training. Had a drink last night, didn't sleep enough, or you ask, so that's all what you think he looks like he didn't sleep enough. You'll bring him in, ask him what's going on and you will be surprised. Most of the time they either slept enough or didn't sleep enough for the right reason because something happened and nobody could sleep. They had no drink, blah, blah, blah. But they lost focus right now because massive problems at home without asking, will never find out. So here's one guy with a problem. Here's another guy, he's flying. Don't treat them the same. The one needs more support and the other one you need to bring down a little bit. So all these kind of. That's how you work with people. In the end what you want is that the job of a leader is to make the target, the aim, the final destination, whatever that clear like the sun that everybody's automatically going there and you don't have to push them every day and say by the way there's the sun that's around there so that they know it on the way there. You support them in different ways. It's not so important what I want to say in a moment of anger or whatever it happens. Emotion do that to us. Especially around a football game you shout something. Did I really say that? Did I? Did I did. But it's not so important in a talk conversation with people which depend on you, you are responsible for. It's not so important what you say. It's much more important what they need to hear. It's not them telling them what they want to hear. No what they need to hear to deal with their situation. So that's what leadership means. Not just telling them off for whatever. That doesn't work. That doesn't work. Try to understand why. And that was. I love that part in my job and I still do that if you want right now. Not with world class players all the time or coaches, point directors, whatever. They're all young, younger than me at least. And that's how I understand my role and understood my role.
- [19:35]
Steven Bartlett
Was there certain players in your team that you felt you could be tougher with and others that you felt you could never really be tough with because that would make. That would hurt their performance. I'm reflecting.
- [19:48]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, of course, of course you have them. Sadio Mane and Mo Salah are two top examples. So in the end there are not a lot of people who saw it coming. We knew they are great. We knew their massive talents. They have fantastic potential but they were not who they became later on in that time. It's not that they came to Liverpool and said boss, just want to tell you I defend anyway so we don't have to talk about that. Just explain me how we do it. And we obviously to. To be successful as a football team you have to organize a football team to get stability. To get stability you need to find a way to defend properly and together. If you have that based on that they can start flying. Then we. Then let's talk about the football part. So. And now there are obviously no defenders but we were famous for our pressing and counter pressing. I talked a lot to them and it was. And the way we spoke about it was just 100% clear. You want to win more often than not. You want to have the maximum success, you want to be able to become the best team in England at one point. Yeah, okay, then do that. Come on. So agreement. And then from there we went on, but then with years, and not because they changed or whatever. Here a little bit less, there a little bit less. And I have to decide, do I go for them? Like I would go for a young boy playing in that position and say, come on, turn, run, fight, jump, and take them off in a moment? No, of course not. You don't do that in that moment. It's a. It's a story in the newspaper. We had this one argument, I think, with Mo at West Ham, at a. At the sideline, when it didn't start, and I brought him on and he was not happy. The problem, our problems then are always in public. That's not real big thing. But in the moment we didn't agree, definitely. So how do you deal with that the next day? I think I can say we have a very good relationship today, even though on that day it didn't look like. And that's all the things. So you learn, you try to do it the right way, you try to show the players respect, but at one point it's never enough. And you have to accept that as well, because the players, they grow, they get bigger and bigger and bigger. And at one point you hear, years later, he never spoke to me. Whatever another player from wherever says about a former coach, about me, about Jose Mourinho, he never spoke to me. I don't know, we spoke a lot, we just can't remember. And we didn't speak what you wanted. I didn't tell you what you wanted to hear. So you can never make it 100% right, but you can only do as good as it's possible for you. And that's what I tried all the time, to create a relationship where even when we had arguments, we always found a way out as me player. And it never got carried into the team, that I lost respect, they lost respect for me because I acted that way. So we always stayed together. We always find a way that they understood, okay, it's really important that we get through this, that they sorted, the boss sorted with him or the boss sorted with us, that we can go from here again.
- [23:11]
Steven Bartlett
From a very young age, one of the things I found really surprising is in as I was Going through all of these football teams you played in as a young man, it appeared that you were always the captain, repeatedly assigned to be the captain. And I wondered why. What was it that you were doing from a very young age that meant all of your coaches back then asked you to be captain of the team?
- [23:30]
Jürgen Klopp
I have no clue. The coach I learned the most of Wolfgang Frank, when he came back to Mainz. He was at Mainz, very successful spell left. And then we were in trouble again. He came back and I was the captain. And we had a very experienced player from a first division team coming to Mainz in the second division. Lar Schmidt was his name, so. And Wolfgang. So, Jurgen, can we talk? Yeah, of course. Jurgen, I want to make last the captain. Oh, yeah, good. So then you are not captain. Yeah, I know. So it was exactly like that. It meant nothing to me. So my role was not. I was a leader in the team. Not on purpose. I was on the pitch, an aggressive leader, which I didn't like. So heart rate above 140, I lost it very often in a very, very. Not a good way. So really aggressive talk, shouting at everybody. And in all that, really, I had to. Very often I had to apologize to my teammates.
- [24:34]
Steven Bartlett
Where did that come from? Because you're.
- [24:36]
Jürgen Klopp
I don't. I don't know.
- [24:37]
Steven Bartlett
There's a real dichotomy with you because you're such a sweet, kind guy. You have your mother in you in terms of the empathy and the love of people. But then there's this other explosive part.
- [24:49]
Jürgen Klopp
I didn't like it at all. And I was afraid when I stopped playing that I'd take it over. So I was emotional. It was. Had moments where I lost it with referees and stuff like that. But generally I was really. I'm a very calm person. So people think. Because I'm probably. I think I'm a motivator or whatever, I do get up in the morning and come in the dressing room and say, come on, boys, today we go again. Not at all. I mean, it happens from time to time, but not that often. No, I have no explanation for it. If I would have had an explanation, it was a little bit. I knew I'm not good enough. Actually my teammates were better than me. And I thought, I only can get on that level if I squeeze everything out from an aggressive point of view, stuff like this. So that was a bit my explanation, because they are so much better. But if I calm down and want to play cool football, yeah, I'm out.
- [25:47]
Steven Bartlett
You eventually become the manager of mines.
- [25:49]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [25:49]
Steven Bartlett
You're my age when you get that job. And the former manager's been sacked. The club have never gotten to the Bundesliga, the first division in Germany. You don't have experience managing a club of this size or scale. Previously, the chairman comes to you, the owner comes to you and says they want you to do the job. Why did they want you to do the job?
- [26:12]
Jürgen Klopp
Because I didn't find anybody else in a short period of time. So we played Sunday, and the next game was on Wednesday. The idea was just to do that game. So the whole story is that Eckhart Groetzhoon, the manager at that time, we lost the game on Sunday and we had a little camp, a crisis camp, let me say, because on Wednesday was another very important game we had to play. So he took us to a hotel that we stay there, have two good sessions, and then we go for this very, very important and maybe decisive game. And at night, we have a meeting, meeting with all players. And he said, gentlemen, I want to ask one question. Do you still trust me? Are you still behind me? I don't want to answer now. I order beer for all of you. I go out half an hour, I come back and you tell me. So he goes out, we just bring some beer in. We sit there, look at each other and think, huh? And discuss the labor. And I was not captain that time. Yeah, I was not the captain, so. But then it's like that, the decisions. No.
- [27:20]
Steven Bartlett
What?
- [27:20]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, he asked why you asked.
- [27:22]
Christian Heidel
You don't know.
- [27:23]
Jürgen Klopp
So. And it's like everyone's there now. We have a discussion. Yeah. The majority, some people, some players didn't speak, but it was clear if you ask, the answer is no. So it's like that. I'm not captain, but the captain says, kloppo, you tell him. I tell him why.
- [27:43]
Christian Heidel
Okay.
- [27:43]
Jürgen Klopp
But he comes in. He comes in and said, actually, no. And he was shocked. He was really shocked. He didn't expect it. It's more like a little thing to do. And then we say yes, we go through that together or something like that. But we said no.
- [28:04]
Steven Bartlett
Why?
- [28:05]
Jürgen Klopp
Because he was not the right person. He was.
- [28:06]
Steven Bartlett
Why?
- [28:07]
Jürgen Klopp
Because he. We. We played bad and we. He was. I love Eckard Kon, but that time for that team was really. He was just not the right coach. That can happen. Doesn't say anything about you. But we did be wrong training, wrong lineups, wrong tactics, wrong everything. So that's how things go bad. In the wrong direction in that time. And we had no that time. And we didn't have to make the decision, yeah, who can take over or whatever. We just could say no. He could have said, okay, I will prove you wrong or whatever. But he ran out and said, Tomorrow morning, 9:00 o' clock training. Okay. And then he wanted to do a press conference where he wanted to tell the public that he kicks out all the experienced players and starts now the rest of the season plays only the young kids. So I was one of the old players. I was 33, but I didn't know that that should happen. So he called the sporting director, we need a press conference and I want to talk to them and tell them we change everything. And the sporting director says, yeah, we do a press conference, but the subject will be, we sack you. Okay, so done. And now they didn't have a coach. And then they called me and for that game, can you do it? And I said, yeah, yeah, I can do it. And I did it. And we won the game. And they didn't find a manager. So we had Sunday and other games. The first game we won one nil. The second game we won three.
- [29:36]
Steven Bartlett
One.
- [29:38]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah. From the first seven games we won six and drew one. And we stayed in the league pretty comfortably. Comfortably. Incredible. We were a bunch of friends. They were all my friends and I was their boss. They had to tell me that I changed from now on. In the coaches dressing room. What are you doing here? Here's the coaches. That's your office. Okay. The first night we had twin room.
- [30:01]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah.
- [30:02]
Jürgen Klopp
So. And I got one more game to sleep there with my friend Ewan Crumley there in the same room. And then next day they all told me, yeah, you get your own room. Oh, okay. So. But all the rest, we were a real bunch of friends. And they respected me from day, from the first second.
- [30:20]
Steven Bartlett
What was your approach going into that? You go from being a player to a manager of these boys. What. What's in your mind? Are you thinking, I'm just going to let them do whatever they want to do? I'm going to.
- [30:29]
Jürgen Klopp
We had Wolfgang Frank, a very, very. The best manager we all had. When we were at Mainz, he was exceptional. We at Mainz, we were a football team who lost all the games when the other team had better players. I think sounds normal, but you know, in football it's a way to win games. Anyway. We never had that. Sofranke comes in and implements four in the back ball, orientated defending. We did nothing else than that. And we changed overnight into the one opponent nobody wanted to play against. We were like machines. We were like machines. We are not great football. We were like machines. They were games. Our goalkeeper didn't touch the ball once. We were just defending. It was new that time. So it was really for all of them. That means we all became believer in that. Then Wolfgang left and none of the other coaches could do that. None. There was no connection to the coaches after Wolfgang. So I was one of the players who benefited massively from Wolfgang Frank. And now I arrived and the only thing I did when I. The two sessions I had were both exactly about that four for two ball orientated movements. And we go for MSV Duisburg that time they were third in the table. We go for them like nobody else. But I like these moments. I like to find a reason why it makes sense that why we give our absolute all in a moment like this. Why we don't invest only the minimum, why invest the maximum. Why we would regret it if we don't do it. How better life is if we do it. How much more fun it is if we do it. I love these moments and probably something like that. I told them and from that moment on nobody wanted to play against us anymore. So like, we were like, wow, animals. It was great. It was a fantastic time. Same team pretty much changed overnight.
- [32:30]
Steven Bartlett
So you fixed the defensive situation, the formation, and you also told the players in that dressing room a story of why we had to give this, give everything.
- [32:43]
Jürgen Klopp
They wrote us off. Show the outside world, whatever you can do. Most of the time it was real life. But that time. So in my meetings later on, I never prepared in a way that I wrote something down or whatever. Our life was preparation. What happened during the week with us in the world, that was preparation for meeting. I never thought long about it, just remembered it when I needed it. We spoke, I told the boys. But that time they needed one person to believe in them. And I did. It was not that I had to convince myself. I have to tell them now. Before that season, I told in an interview, this is the best squad mindset we've ever had. It would be really difficult for me to play, but good for us that the team is so good. And then we were in an a hopeless situation before I took over. So I. When I became the manager, I was the one who thought this team is incredible. Nobody knows it yet, but we will make sure in a few weeks they will have a sense at least.
- [33:47]
Steven Bartlett
How important did that prove to be? This idea of making sure that the players you have throughout your career had belief in themselves.
- [33:56]
Jürgen Klopp
That's all. It's all about that. It's not football. It's life. You had. No. When you started your podcast, people probably told you, well, that might be something for you, but you were not sure. And then with each little thing here and there. Oh, how many people listen to your first podcast? Do you remember? No, I think I read it somewhere.
- [34:17]
Steven Bartlett
40 something around that. It was under 100.
- [34:19]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah. So it's a start. So it's a start. And all the rest is if you want history. And that's always in life like that, that it's. Just give it a chance. Of course it makes sense. You believe in yourself, but not everybody can do that. So if. But then if you meet somebody who helps you with that, who has a perspective, who can see something in you.
- [34:43]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah.
- [34:43]
Jürgen Klopp
Then tell. Tell them why you should keep it for yourself. Oh, my God. I think he's a talent. She's a talent. Whatever. Well, she's good at that. He's good at that. Yeah, but we don't tell each other, so where's the problem?
- [34:55]
Steven Bartlett
Did someone do that for you? Told you that you should believe in yourself? They saw something in you?
- [35:01]
Jürgen Klopp
Once I said, I never struggled with confidence, but I don't know why. That's the truth, but it's true. I never struggled with confidence. There's no reason for it. My two best friends in school were genius, and we sat together doing exactly. Reading the same books, invested the same amount of time. They had the best A levels in school, and I was far of that. So a normal reaction would be, pooh, I'm a dumb, obviously. But I never thought that. And I don't really know why that happened. So I took it how it was. I thought, oh, respect. You can remember all these things. Crazy. I can't.
- [35:41]
Steven Bartlett
But you had lots of players that struggled with confidence.
- [35:44]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, Yeah. I tried to create a situation to make sure that the player if. If they are not confident yet, they are confident, but, you know, there are moments when they lose it. Confidence is like once as a little flower, and constantly somebody steps on it. It's like that. Oh, and then it's growing again, and, oh, now we are confident again. Stuff like this in football, it's really difficult because it's like you cannot play without making mistakes. So if a mistake costs you confident, that's a real challenge. But I try to. If you would believe as much in yourself as I do, that would be a start. But as long as you cannot do that, just trust me. So you are good. Because I don't work with. Not with other places. I don't waste time. I don't. That's what. And it's true, I don't. So I really. I really see something and if I see it, I'm patient enough to work on it. Much more patient than the public wants me to be. But of course the idea is that at one day I help you learn flying, but in the end you have to fly yourself. Obviously I cannot do that for you. That's what it is football. You have to perform alone. They cannot look at me, what shall I do? And that's my job is to prepare them as good to make it the education, coaching as wide as just pick for me. That's the idea. But not too much as well. Yeah, it's obviously was a good time in my life doing all these kind of things. I worked with some of the best footballers in the world. Really good time.
- [37:31]
Steven Bartlett
Do you sometimes have to lie in public to protect a player's confidence? I wonder this because you see managers come out and say, oh, he can't play because he's injured or whatever. And they. They say things. But I wonder sometimes if managers are protecting players because they're struggling.
- [37:47]
Jürgen Klopp
Yes, we protect players. I'm not sure I ever had to lie to be 100% honest. I don't know. But we protect players super important. So for me, super important. He lacks confidence. That's in football obvious. You see that you run one on one on a goalie and you don't make it. You can see it. It's because you don't have confidence. That's. That's how it is. There's not a lot of other reasons can be wind whether ball opponent is there. But you do it once, you do it twice, three times, yes. That's not good for the confidence of nobody having that in training. The job is not to talk too much about it, just to give him a chance to get confidence back with the things you do in training that it doesn't last forever. So the one thing you have to protect players from is public try to. Because they are ruthless in moments they don't care until something happens over there supporters sometimes I think we were really lucky with that. We created that bond between the supporters and the team that they were not angry. Disappointed, yes, but not angry in a way that I don't want to see them anymore. So that helped. But of course we have to protect them sometimes. We have to protect them sometimes from themselves as well. So that's the job.
- [39:04]
Steven Bartlett
Did you have to involve yourself much with social media usage of your Team members. And did you. Did you ever consider someone's social media usage when you were considering signing them to join the club? Because I think this now, as a Manchester United fan, I think some of when some of our players are posting on social media, little indirect messages and little emojis and commenting things, I just think, oh God. Troublemaker.
- [39:27]
Jürgen Klopp
We had situations that players texts or posted something at night and deleted it, but I still got aware of it. So not that I read it, but people tell me, oh, last night this not happened. When? 3 o'. Clock. 3 o'.
- [39:42]
Steven Bartlett
Clock.
- [39:44]
Jürgen Klopp
Okay, what do you say? This and that. Oh, what I do in these situations, even delete it. I go in the dressing room and they all lie on the house. Last night this and that happened, got deleted. I know what's there, but maybe you want to tell everybody.
- [40:00]
Steven Bartlett
You would ask him to say in front of everybody.
- [40:03]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, not nice, eh? The thing is, I didn't. I don't go for him and tell him how can you write that? Or whatever. So I said, come on, somebody told me so I know it not important really, but come on, tell the whole team what is what he wanted to say. And then he start. It's not great in that situation. I don't like to bring people in that, but I think that's a deserved punishment for something like that. But actually the effect is nobody ever did it again because nobody wants to be in that situation in a dressing room, sitting there and be the one who has to explain something he did last night or whatever. I discussed individual problems. If it was okay quite in front of the team, if it was important for the team. Yeah, come on, explain why you did that, why you went out that long. What happened in the last two hours?
- [41:06]
Steven Bartlett
This photo here is of things going well for you.
- [41:09]
Jürgen Klopp
Mainz before I had that to get here. These are tears. The tears the year and two years before were not for the same reason. So you probably know we didn't get promoted for a point and a goal. First a goal, first a point, then a goal. And then this happened. That was the first day when it really went well.
- [41:32]
Steven Bartlett
So this was the day that you were promoted for the first time in their history to the Bundesliga.
- [41:37]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, but before winning that I learned how to lose. This is very important, I would say, I think that's again to learn. Even though you want to be as successful as somehow possible, you have to accept that from time to time you lose. And then when you then keep going, you have a good chance if you learn from it. A defeat is a Defeat. If you don't learn from it. If you learn from it, it's a very, very important information. And obviously in football we have a lot of opportunities to get beat and opportunity to learn from it. But this was the biggest relief in my life. Not happiness. I was just pure relief. The pressure was mounting. I was crazy. Not only myself, nobody, not from outside, I don't know, even over the outside world thought. But to make it happen that year was really special.
- [42:42]
Steven Bartlett
But it took two years of coming close.
- [42:46]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [42:47]
Steven Bartlett
And dealing with the disappointment.
- [42:48]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, true.
- [42:49]
Steven Bartlett
When I spoke to Jamie Carragher, I asked Jamie Carragher, actually this. Earlier this morning, I said to him, you know, what was he curious about with you? And this is actually what he said. He said there were so many near misses in your career, whether it was in the Champions League or. I remember when you were head to head with Man City that in that season. And you were one point shy of winning, winning the league. And his question was, he's fascinated with how you. You were so good at dealing with the disappointment of near misses. Because sometimes near misses can cripple people. They can turn them into a downward spiral. It can be like the plant that got stood on. It can crush someone's confidence. But it appears through your career that near misses ended up being positive forces for you.
- [43:36]
Jürgen Klopp
It's not that I knew that always, but what we spoke about very early, what made me the person I am, these people, of course, mom, dad, my faith as well. So. And I knew always that I'm not here to get everything. I am here to give everything. So that doesn't help in a moment when you. When you. When you fail for a point. But in the general understanding as a person, of course it helps. So I'm not surprised that I fail. I don't. I don't think. I don't see myself as a constant winner. In my. In my mind, I see myself as a constant trier. So I don't know constant winners, but there might be some out there, but I just can't imagine a world where it would be like that. All the people running around there, all the happy people that win all the time. Nobody wins all the time. Nobody does. So it's all about dealing with the things you want and not get. And then you want it more or not anymore, or whatever. So the moments were not great. But I learned it here. Doing it that day changed the destiny of the club of Meinz. That's how it is. My destiny, the player's destiny, changed everything. So we wanted it that hard. But we learned before, we have to try harder. And that's what I always took. If you don't get the result you want, try again and try harder.
- [45:14]
Steven Bartlett
It was Christian that gave you that job, wasn't it?
- [45:16]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah. Mr. Heidel.
- [45:19]
Steven Bartlett
Christian Heidel. I am. I spoke to Christian Heidel. He made a.
- [45:24]
Jürgen Klopp
His English is very funny, isn't it?
- [45:25]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah. I'm going to translate it for the viewers, but I'm going to actually play what he said to you in German.
- [45:31]
Jürgen Klopp
Oh, of course.
- [45:32]
Steven Bartlett
So you can hear it. Here we go.
- [45:35]
Christian Heidel
Global. Yes, dear.
- [45:37]
Jürgen Klopp
Global.
- [45:38]
Christian Heidel
We've known each other for exactly 35 years now. First we were both players. Then you subsequently became my esteemed coach. It all started in Mainz. You changed an entire club, you changed an entire city. Back then we were promoted to the Bundesliga together. And today Mainz has been in the Bundesliga for over 25 years. Back then, that was actually unimaginable. You go to Dortmund, change your club, change an entire city and win every title there is to win. You move to Liverpool and the same thing happens for the third time. You change your club, you change your city. I don't think any coach before you has ever achieved that. And I'm always asked, what makes Jurgen Klopp special to this day? He has simply remained a genuine person, always authentic, which is incredibly important, apart from the fact that you are, of course, an outstanding expert. I hope we'll see each other again soon on our little shared island in Mallorca and have a great day and lots of fun with your podcast.
- [46:33]
Jürgen Klopp
Wow. You know, live all. Yeah, Clubhouse.
- [46:38]
Steven Bartlett
I told you, you changed a club, you changed the city. Yeah, you did that over and over and over again. You went on and did that again at Dortmund, winning a huge range of awards there at a time when they were. Weren't considered to be hopeful. And then you went off to Liverpool and did the same. And as you. I was reading about how when you traveled to Liverpool, there was 30,000 Liverpool fans watching your plane fly across the channel to Liverpool because they were all very excited. And you arrived at a time when they were in a period of dysfunction, kind of similar to where Manchester United are now, I guess. And you managed to bring them up from being a team that were dysfunctional, hadn't won. There was a lot of pessimism around the club. I think as a Man United fan, I was hoping and wondering that if Liverpool would ever come back. I was hoping they would never come back again. But you brought them back. Annoyingly, when you arrived at Liverpool that day you said in that press conference that you're the normal one. I remember that. What did you observe when you arrived? What was the culture? What was the feeling? And what was your first thought about what you had to do to bring that club back to its glory?
- [47:45]
Jürgen Klopp
The feeling I got. I had roughly a week to think about everything from the first call to the signature, I think.
- [47:54]
Steven Bartlett
Did you have other offers from other clubs?
- [47:56]
Jürgen Klopp
Oh, in that moment, not. But in the summer I had a lot of offers. Like before when I, when I finished at Dortmund. But in that moment it was just Liverpool. But it was kind of destiny because I didn't want to. It was not. We were on a family holiday in Lisabon with the, with the two boys, Ola and I sitting there. Phone goes my agent, why is he calling Boys? Look at my face. I say, Liverpool and the both. Yes, the boys. Yeah. And Ola looks. What, what is she. And she didn't see my lips when I spoke.
- [48:30]
Christian Heidel
What?
- [48:30]
Jürgen Klopp
And realized, oh God, we start again. Before she knew we will go to Liverpool.
- [48:36]
Steven Bartlett
Why did your boys.
- [48:37]
Jürgen Klopp
Oh, come on. If you are not a Man United fan, you know what Liverpool means for two people. And they, they, they, yeah, they loved it. We fell instantly in love with that club.
- [48:50]
Steven Bartlett
So did Manchester United have a call?
- [48:52]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, I spoke to them. So in the year when Sir Alex retired, they spoke to me. Yeah, yeah. Of course they were interested at one point. So I was, that time I would have been interested. I was a young. I had a sensational team at Dortmund. My God. So somebody, they probably thought, what is he doing there? Later on I heard that my players, Hando, Adam Lalana, James Mellon, so that they flew to, to, to Real Madrid. When we played the semi final in the Champions League to watch us, I wanted to see what is Dortmund doing? My God, what a football that is. I mean, you cannot get big compliments. It's really, it's really good.
- [49:33]
Steven Bartlett
I want to know why Manchester United.
- [49:34]
Jürgen Klopp
Didn'T no and no. No, no. They tried. I, I, it was wrong time, wrong moment for me. I was in, had a contract at Dortmund. I wouldn't have left, not really for nobody in that time. They just needed a manager, but the manager they wanted. In that case, now, it was one of a few options, I think.
- [49:52]
Steven Bartlett
So it was you that turned down Manchester United, not Manchester United turning you down?
- [49:57]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, that way. So I, yeah.
- [50:00]
Steven Bartlett
So we need someone else on negotiations. We need someone, yeah.
- [50:03]
Jürgen Klopp
No, no, no, he's not there anymore, the guy who negotiated that. So there are now other people in charge it's long ago, Long ago.
- [50:09]
Steven Bartlett
So why would Manchester United's often known as the biggest club in the world. Why wouldn't you take that job? Why didn't you take that job? Manchester United, the great Manchester United.
- [50:21]
Jürgen Klopp
We are now not private, in a private space. So there are some reasons what the people in that conversation told me, which I didn't like.
- [50:29]
Steven Bartlett
Oh, really?
- [50:30]
Jürgen Klopp
So United was that big. We get all the players we want. We are like, we can this. We get him, we get him, we get him, we get him. And I was sitting there, so it was not my project. It didn't feel like my. It was the wrong time. But on top of that, it was not my project. I didn't want to bring back. I don't know. Pogba Paul is a sensational player. My God. But these things don't work usually, but these kind of things or Cristiano, my God, we all know that he's the best player together with Messi, the best player in the world, so. But bringing back never helps. In that time in 2013, it was obviously not about Cristiano, maybe about Paola, I'm not even sure when. Don't get the numbers together. But it was just the idea is we bring the best players together and then let's go.
- [51:20]
Steven Bartlett
It wasn't about the football.
- [51:22]
Jürgen Klopp
No, not at all. And I sat there and was like, nah, I am not sure. That's not for me. So. And then the pure, pure football project comes up with. With Liverpool and a sensational talk to. To Mike Gordon should. That's really important as well. Like, he was the. Is the owner. I know John and Tom of course, as well. But Mike was responsible for us. I wanted, after that talk, I want to be his friend. He's such a good guy. So that's how it started and in the end, yeah, was pretty special.
- [51:55]
Steven Bartlett
I find this fascinating because as a Manchester United fan, I. I observed from the moment Sir Alex Ferguson left, we adopted a very different approach and we brought in all these massive name players, Di Maria, Falcao Ibrahimovic, Pogba Ronaldo, and we failed. And it taught me something as an entrepreneur about what matters more. And actually, when I read through your philosophy, it's quite clear in your philosophy that you prefer attitude and character versus how many Instagram followers you've got and what you've done in the past.
- [52:31]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, of course.
- [52:31]
Steven Bartlett
And I wanted to get your take on why you think the last. This is very selfish of me. The Last sort of 15 years at Manchester United haven't worked out as an objective observer, I want to. I need to know.
- [52:43]
Jürgen Klopp
You can't.
- [52:44]
Steven Bartlett
No. You're a man that was able to take teams and make them successful. And we are currently underdogs in many regards because of the last 15 years. What is it that we've missed in that time? What have we overlooked in your view?
- [52:57]
Jürgen Klopp
I know you don't want to hear that.
- [52:59]
Steven Bartlett
You have a hypothesis though.
- [53:00]
Jürgen Klopp
I didn't think a second since I joined Liverpool about what Man United did. Right or wrong. I just did. So it's like I buy into a situation. So I went to Liverpool and that moment you became our opponent. Not my enemy, but a very important opponent. One who is much more fun to beat than maybe like others. Like with Everton. I know so many Everton fans in Liverpool lived there for nine years. So I know so many people have great people. Yeah. So absolutely. But then you go to the game and think, oh my God, that's something different. Not I make that up, it's like that. But I really didn't think. But always in football is like this. And again, like in life, you have a problem and you only try to find a solution. For now, knowing you have two days later another problem. You know it. But search for now just find a solution for that problem. There's no mid, no long term, okay, we have to deal with that for another day or two and then we can sort it. And that means in our sense, we have to deal with that for a year or two at United and then we can make a big step then this in our case, in football case contracts are running out, player goes anyway, we can sell him, we can do this. But because you are in such a rush all the time, just because you want to or have to win the next game a little bit like that being now in a situation probably United in the years when they were not happy, they would buy the time from that time Jose becoming second. And nobody was really happy there. And you think, oh, remember that in that time second was not good enough. And now you are not even close to that. But that's not a Man United story for man. It's just a football story. It's always like that in the world of football. You win, you are the greatest. You lose, you know nothing about the game, you draw, you're boring. So there's not that you're constant and it's only about your own idea, what you really want to do and where you want to go. And everything in life is about development. Today you were not the same 10 years ago. I was not the same 10 years ago. So it means the time between then and now counts. So if it counts for me the next 10 years do the same. So it's important what I do, it's important what I see in a year, two, three. So I have to plan my own life mid and long term as much as I can do that and especially the destiny and the future of a football club. A player can score a goal, can score five goals, will never sort the problems if you have real problems and I don't know the United problems, but Liverpool was the same. It's not about that. On the day when we lost sold Phil Coutinho, that was not the day when I thought oh good that we have the money. I lost a player I wanted to work with for the next 10 years if you want. It was not that I thought and we can invest it, yeah, we invested it smartly, that's true. But it's not that we found a player for the position and sorted that. That's we had to sort differently but we found two really solid, solid and becoming world class players with Alisson and Van Dijk. That was for the future to go from there and now. That's the difference, I think.
- [56:16]
Steven Bartlett
I've had so many founders speak to me and say why didn't this particular ad that I ran on this platform work for me? Maybe the copy wasn't good, the creative wasn't strong, but usually the problem is they're not having the right conversation because that ad never reached the right person. And if you're in B2B marketing, that is much of the game. And this is where LinkedIn AD solves that problem for you. Their targeting is ridiculously specific. You can target by job title, seniority, company size, industry and even someone's skill set. And their network includes over a billion professionals. About 130 million of them are decision makers. So when you use LinkedIn ads, you're putting your brand in front of the right people. And LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B return on ad spend across all ad networks in my experience. If you want to give them a try, head over to LinkedIn.com diary and when you spend $250 on your first LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get an extra $250 credit from me for the next one. That's LinkedIn.com diary. Terms and conditions apply. Do any of you remember a conversation I had on this podcast with anthropologist Daniel Lieberman? It was one of our most viewed conversations of all time. And the most replayed moment in that conversation was when I talked about this product. These are what I call barefoot shoes by vivobarefoot, which have significantly reduced support, which gives my feet the opportunity that they desperately want and need to strengthen. We're living in a comfort crisis and that at all times in our lives we're making this trade of whether to have more comfort now and therefore more discomfort in the future, or a little bit less comfort now, but to be stronger and healthier in the future. And research from Liverpool University has backed this up. They've shown that wearing Vivobarefoot shoes for six months can increase foot strength by up to 60%. So if you want to start strengthening your feet and your body, visit vivobarefoot.com Stephen and you'll get 20% off when you use code STEPHENB20 at checkout. That also comes with a 100 day money back guarantee. What I love about football is the analogies to the world I'm in, which is the world of business, where you can watch a team like we're seeing, I think Crystal palace at the moment, who objectively don't have maybe the best players in the world. They don't have the most money.
- [58:31]
Jürgen Klopp
Bournemouth as well.
- [58:32]
Steven Bartlett
Bournemouth as well. Yeah. But they're doing something which is creating this magic and it's this wonderful narrative of you don't need to have the most talent or resources to have the best outcome. So what is that gap between like and. That's.
- [58:47]
Jürgen Klopp
There must be something. Now look, it's a situation, a moment in the situation where Crystal palace in Bournemouth is massively different to the situation for United. If, if Bournemouth wins game one nil and doesn't perform particularly well, you take it and you go on. I'm not sure you would read it. Find an article in, in, in the newspaper about it. Just win it and go. But United is United. United. Each step is under the, under focus and oh, he didn't. They won, but he didn't play great. So they win a game and then somebody doesn't perform well. So pick him out and go for him full throttle. You think, wow, so the coach has to pick him up again. No, no, it's all right. Stuff like this and the next one and then they're different, completely different situations. The only problem you have now, in the time you try to sort your problems, all the other clubs improved their situations. So Liverpool has an incredible squad. Yes. Are they 100% happy right now with the three defeats? No, probably not. But incredible squad. Arsenal. Incredible squad. City. City I mean anyone strike back. There's already three clubs Chelsea in that time when everybody thought do they have an overview about their transfer market? Do they know who they own and who they loan and stuff like this. Obviously somehow it pays off. So they have already five clubs. They are above you. Are you happy with position six? No.
- [60:14]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah.
- [60:15]
Jürgen Klopp
So and here's the problem. Should you be happy theoretically with position six? Maybe this year I'll build on that. So find a reason. Find a reason to enjoy the situation again. Find a reason to enjoy a one nil victory, two nil victory at home. Whoever against whoever Southampton try to enjoy that. Really be happy. Go home and not listening to others who tell you then was hearthenkin. That's what we had years ago when we decided after a draw against West Brom to say thank you to the supporters. We stand in front of the cop and hold each other hand and said thank you. And then the press conference, Tony Pooley said what world we are living in. When Liverpool with the money they spent celebrated point against West Brom.
- [61:15]
Christian Heidel
Thank you.
- [61:16]
Jürgen Klopp
But it's your choice how you grow together again. And I think after all the years now without a lot of good football, they need to find a way to grow together again.
- [61:29]
Steven Bartlett
I fully believe in Ruben Amarim. I think he's a man that's focused on culture and I like how honest he is as well. And I think with the team that they have around them, with people like Jason Wilcox and Ineos who I've met and Colette and all the others that are there, I think we've never been in a better place. I personally feel like that because I just think they're aiming for more long term things. They're aiming at more long term solutions.
- [61:52]
Jürgen Klopp
The only problem is you have no clue about football. But besides that, that's a small problem. So yeah, good on you. Good on you.
- [62:03]
Steven Bartlett
I have faith.
- [62:04]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, that's great. Isn't nice?
- [62:07]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah. I don't know if all my friends do but. But I certainly do. And the only reason I have faith is because I see the club aiming at more long term things now and not buying that's what you have to do players because they have loads of Instagram followers. When you got that phone call from Liverpool and they asked you to to come and join, you said, well, the reason you chose Liverpool is because they felt like a football project versus Manchester United who seemed to be a bit more less football oriented.
- [62:31]
Jürgen Klopp
But it's not the same year. Yeah, two years. Yeah, two years before.
- [62:35]
Steven Bartlett
I'm wondering what is it about their proposal that made you think it was a football project?
- [62:42]
Jürgen Klopp
Oh, the situation. I knew the club, I knew the team. So if you look at on top of that, I didn't think it that way but when Sir Alex left it was. They became champion in his last year. But it was not that the team was one you build a future on. So that's how it is when you come in as you. It's a bit built to fail if you want it. But I didn't see it that way and that time it was at other reasons. But if I would have thought longer about it, it would have been probably yeah. So David Moyes and fantastic, fantastic manager what improves every year couldn't do the job and since then it's a bit of a problem. So a new team needs time. He was stitched up so needs time. So Liverpool the team. As I said when I came, nobody likes the team. Not even the team likes the team. I like the team. Do I like the team. I knew the players. I thought when Bobby Firmino moved there, I thought, oh, that's a smart, that's a smart transfer. I knew Christian Benteke, I loved Diego Origi, I knew John Henderson, I knew Adam. I know plenty of players and heard only ah, they're not good enough. I thought, oh well, let's see. So I like the team. So that's a football team, proper football, super attitude. I mean just on day one I could have played Hendo, Millie and Adam together in midfield. Maybe I did. I don't even know my first lineup. But this, it's a proper engine room. It's smart players, it's people who really want to, want to perform, want to work hard and all these kind of things. That's what you need for a start. I knew Liverpool was not the same club than they were before. It's not that I went into the shiny room. I played there a year before with Dortmund in the summer, in the preseason and I was massively disappointed about the dressing rooms. I remember you have these pictures in your mind. You think, oh my God, it's anvil. And you walk in and make two steps into the dressing room and you run against the wall and you think, kidding, Is that all? Where's the rest? So English dressing rooms, really, really small in the old stadium we think, oh my God, how can you bring it? It was built for 11 players. And now we come here, we with 30 people in that room, it doesn't help. So I knew about the history. I knew that nobody's Happy. I knew that I liked the team. That's a good start.
- [65:06]
Steven Bartlett
And did they tell you that they were going to develop the ground, the stadium? Did they make any promises to your assurances? Did they tell you?
- [65:12]
Jürgen Klopp
We didn't really speak about that in the first conversation. That's nothing I need to talk about in this kind of conversation. I know the job I had in that moment was just to improve the football team, not the club that I was involved in. All the other stuff happened with time, with time, just to be. I realized this is my responsibility now as well. You never know. I don't plan 7, 8, 9 year spells in a club. It just happens. It's like I don't. I don't think they could sack me, but I know could happen. So I plan from a specific moment on when I sorted the first few things. Then I plan mid and long term, or always did, knowing it might not be for me. But I was never worried about that too much.
- [65:58]
Steven Bartlett
What was the first couple of things you thought you had to change to get them winning and to get the confidence back and to ultimately bring the City behind you? Was there anything you thought, okay, the first thing I'm have to do is get rid of him, change this.
- [66:11]
Jürgen Klopp
So a year before, not in that season, but two years before they nearly became chairman, was a different team. And it was a very specific way of football. Offensively, oh my God, they were ridiculously good. Defensively, yeah, lucky. A good goalie there. Stuff like this, it was not the same. So we didn't have the team from that time. We didn't have Suarez, we didn't have Sterling, we didn't have. Yeah, we had Dennis Durage, stuff like this. But it was different. Different team, completely different. S I, I arrived there, I had five strikers. It was Chris Mana, Danny Ings, Di Gorigi, Bobby Firmino. Then you start five strikers and I want to play one striker system. How do we deal with that? But it was fine. And there was so much quality, just not really solid. So the first thing I had to solve is to organize them. So find a way to make sure that they understand that we have a chance to win the next football game. We have to do a couple of things for that. For Tottenham, three days. Time to train. Yeah. Jump in their face and let's see what we get for it. It's not organized. It's like we started with an organized chaos. So I gave a few ideas about where we have to. Where we. Where we want to put them under pressure. And in that moment now do it. And afterwards we work, we talk about it, how it worked out. Because there was no time to train anyway. We had no time the week after we played European League, I think in the midweek. And then you play again and no, it's like you are in a rush at a coaching career with all the games you have to play. If you really want to a top team, especially if you really want to develop a style of football, you are set up to fail because it's like you have no time in the preseason. There's no. Their players are everywhere, playing big tournaments, blah, blah, blah. And then you come two weeks before the season starts into your camp. Okay, so let's try. Let's go from here. Then you play. Top teams play every three days from a specific date on. We obviously we lost a lot of finals. That means we played a lot of finals. That means we played all the games until the end of the season, which is a lot. So there's no really time. So to train and really develop things. So you have to use each little moment to implement a specific idea we all can buy into. And that's what we did. I loved our first game against Tottenham, Simon Minou. They had to make a few good, really good saves, but they had to do as well. And that year Tottenham was really strong there. We came second behind Leicester, I think it was that season. And that's a start.
- [68:47]
Steven Bartlett
What are those little ideas that you started to implement one by one?
- [68:53]
Jürgen Klopp
So many. If you don't have time to change football. What do you mean? We are an all not genius. And we cannot go there and show them a little bit. Pass the ball here, pass the ball there and then if you pass the ball back again, you can shoot on your alone in front of the goal. That doesn't work like that. I'm 1, 100% convinced. You have to make sure that you are stable. If you're stable, that means that the other team, whatever they try, it's not easy for them to get through and shoot, just finish. I don't like that. If you can avoid that, do it. Because we are people. What we now realize a few times it's not easy that you. If they have 5, 6 chances after each other, opportunities after each other, then it's like that. You, you, you don't feel great. Nobody plays his best football. If each attack of the opponent ends in the arms of your goalie, that just doesn' so how can we do that? And stability is to organize a team that's number one, two and three on the to do list of a successful manager. And that's what I did. We organized and then we told them to run their socks off. You have to show the people that you want to change something. You have to show the people that you want to achieve something. How we can tell? I can tell them by the end. You have to show them. So run. And they went for it. I loved it so much. They loved it so much. It's easy. They're all top fit. They want to run. So just show them which direction and it goes. And then we developed, step by step, our own way of football. Brought players in step by step. But we got stable pretty quickly. Not as much as we wanted. I think we became sixth, seventh, eighth. I don't even know. First season, two finals. Great. Lost both. Not great. But then we knew each other and we loved working together with this group. Brought in super players. Really super, super players. Super character, super players. And stick together. I mean, what can you do? We lost the European League final in Basel. How it always is. There's a party after the game. So you cannot organize a party. But you all know if you lose, who wants to go to the party? So I was a new manager. Yes, not that new anymore. Seven, eight months in or so. And I realized some players are under there, but it wasn't a team hotel. So I called them, told them all here, come on, come downstairs. Oh, boss, really. I tell you what, this was only the start. We only are together since six, seven months. This is not the last final we play in. This is the first final we played. Okay, we lost a bit to Carabao. It's not important. First international final we lost. No problem. We go again. And I went on to stay on the dance floor. It was a dance floor. And I said all coming when we sang. We are Liverpool sha da da da da. I mean, I had a few parties after finals. We lost. And I always thought, I don't waste time at all on not being happy about what we achieved over the whole year. Because qualifying for a final is a real achievement. Losing it is not great. But until then everything was fine. And I never accepted that we ignore the rest. So we have a party. And then we went on to achieve new things. And we need a bit of time, obviously, but it was okay.
- [72:13]
Steven Bartlett
And this goes back to the point earlier about controlling the mindset and the psychology after you lose. To make sure that you don't get depressed.
- [72:20]
Jürgen Klopp
And if you don't learn from a defeat, it's a real defeat. If you learn from it, it's just. It's a very, very important information and that's how I always understood it. I had enough opportunities to learn, really. I always say I lost more Champions League finals than most people play. It's not a great thing to say. It's the truth.
- [72:43]
Steven Bartlett
Anyway, you're known for what they call heavy metal football.
- [72:47]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, but that's.
- [72:48]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah, I know, like that phrase.
- [72:50]
Jürgen Klopp
And you know, I said a lot of things, but it's like that I said that it was not in my mind that I thought, you want to play heavy metal football. They asked me about Arsene Wenger on the comparison and they did think we are similar in a way. And I thought what Arsene and I know. So come on, don't be disrespectful to Arsene. I'm a young blah, blah, blah man from somewhere. But if you want to compare us, then I'm not sure that's possible because Arsene's football is rather like an orchestra and my team plays a little bit more like a heavy metal band. But that was the first day when I thought about my team. I got heavy metal band. But it.
- [73:30]
Steven Bartlett
But it's true.
- [73:31]
Jürgen Klopp
Yes, somehow it is true.
- [73:32]
Steven Bartlett
And I know that more than anyone as a Manchester United fan watching, I'd hate playing your football teams because they ran so much, they were so passionate, they never let up, they could always win in the last minute. And the intensity was. You were just anxious as a football fan watching the games because it was so full on and it was overwhelming. It's almost overwhelming emotionally. And I remember through your era, you would win sometimes you'd win games by seven, you'd score seven goals. Five goals every week. When I pull up my phone to check the scores that week, oh, Liverpool have scored five again. Oh, they've scored seven again. They've scored six again. Sometimes you would concede three, but it was crazy how high intensity the way you played football was.
- [74:13]
Jürgen Klopp
Don't waste time with holding back. I don't understand it. We have nothing to do the 90 minutes, 95 minutes, whatever. I don't. We had to learn. I had to learn to manage games inside me until the last date was like, come on, come on, try. But then I grow up and I got more mature and stuff like this. It was like, okay, come on, hold the ball, control the ball. All the things at one point you do, you learn at any time on your journey and that's how it is. And I love the game so much and could play it not that good that I was so happy that I could work with these outstanding players. I couldn't stop. I loved it. I enjoyed it so much. Seeing them doing what they're doing. I was number one supporter of my team, teams wherever I was. I loved what they did. So that's what I carried through the week. I didn't tell them. I told them, I want to be your friend, but I cannot be your best friend because I'm the one who tells you off very often and will tell you this is not right. This is not right. But the feeling, the general feeling was I love them in my mind, my ex players, I love them all. And some of them don't love back. Let me say like that probably for some reasons or whatever, but that doesn't mean anything to me. I love my clubs.
- [75:33]
Steven Bartlett
Do you think it's important how you win? Because you know this heavy metal, high intensity football, oh, you'll win. Was great for the fans. They, they love watching 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. They love watching that stuff. Do you think that matters or do you think it's just about getting the three points?
- [75:49]
Jürgen Klopp
Let's say we didn't win that often. Five, nil, seven.
- [75:52]
Steven Bartlett
It felt like, it felt like it was.
- [75:54]
Jürgen Klopp
And against United we did. Yeah, you can cut it out. No, it's. Yeah, of course it's important. So if you have your backpacked, go into the stadium as a player, if you have your boots and if you have wear a shirt. Don't waste time with anything than giving you all. There's no guarantee to get anything but the only chance to get something. So give your all from the first until last minute. You have to understand this game is only that fun for us because all the people are watching it. That's why we earn the money. I mean it. I know that's what people want to hear, but we earn the money because everybody's interested in it. Everybody wants to see it, knows about it, reads everything about it, all these kind of things. And for that, with all the stories around, the only thing we really have to deliver is give your absolute all. In a game like that, whatever, whichever game is there, 5, 30, 2, 30, 3, 30, whenever the game starts, give your absolute all.
- [76:52]
Steven Bartlett
But why not just one? Nil and defense and boring and pass it round.
- [76:56]
Jürgen Klopp
That happens, that happens in games. You realize, okay, we scored a goal, but today's not our day. Come on, let's get it over the line. But it cannot be the target or the purpose for the next game. Again, let's do it like that. Not for the clubs. If you own. The only realistic target is to stay in the league. Is a wonderful result. But we talk about a club like Liverpool. We are bigger than that. You have to win each football game when you are manager of Liverpool. That's what people. That's not that before the season anybody thinks, oh, 38 games. Oh, it makes sense. More than 100. Nobody had ever. So it's not like that. But still each defeat and each draw is like, how could that happen? It's like. And that's why you have to play in a specific way. Not all clubs have the same things to do. But the top clubs, they have to win all the games. And when you have the chance, you win them clear you have with the proper results. Stuff like this. You have to make the people enjoy the football you play. And I love to do that. I loved it. Honestly. It's like the games we played, the results we had were just incredible. It's just amazing. Not all of them. And I love the one Nils as much as I do all the others. The Champions League final was the worst final of all the four my teams played. But we won it. Would I take. Would it change and say, okay, let's the other three as well a little bit. The performance in other games was really good, but we lost. So here we are. It was not fantastic, but we won all fine, it's about the result. But if you have a result and another result, it has to lead to really good football. At one point as good as possible for your specific team. You want to stay in the league, do it with good football. You want to qualify for Europe, do it with good football. Because we are there for the people. We don't. It's not there that we just go home and the people think, oh, it's unwatchable. I'm not sure I come next week again, that's not fair. Try to play. The game is a really cool game. So let's make sure that everybody sees it.
- [79:08]
Steven Bartlett
And what is the Liverpool way? What is inherent in when you come to Liverpool? You are the manager or you are a player. What is the thing that you have to do that's specific to Liverpool in order to be successful?
- [79:19]
Jürgen Klopp
You have to understand the community. And with the community that's a city community. As a bigger community around the world there are so many people and this club went through a lot. Not as the only club in the world, but come on for that moment we just think about ourselves. Went through a lot. The reaction to these situations was always exceptional. To be 100% honest and that's what you have to understand. What you have to learn that this club means more to the people than just football. So that was. You have to understand and that's why what we do is more important then it maybe is somewhere else. That that's the responsibility we always took and understood 100% our boy. The players understood to play for Liverpool is not just a club where you play during your career. It's the club and it's something you will definitely remember for life. So that we try, we try to make sure that the boys understood if we give our absolute everything now we meet in 10, 15 years, look back and we think it was the best we could have done. It's the absolute best we could have done. And I think that's how you. My view on life is as well all the other stuff is just sorting the problem in front of you. There's something we have to sort. But when you sort you think about what's the effect for the rest. And that's what some people, some clubs maybe want to see because the pressure is too big just to make sure. Okay, tomorrow at least they will not write we have no clue. Tomorrow at least they will say they found a solution and then we can think about the next day or whatever.
- [81:01]
Steven Bartlett
How does someone, I don't know how someone succeeds you because you have such a big aura. Are you aware that you have a big aura?
- [81:09]
Jürgen Klopp
Don't know if anybody has the awareness of that. I heard about it, but they don't know what it means 100% to be honest. But I see it with other people.
- [81:18]
Steven Bartlett
In energy when you, you arrive. It's the passion, it's the ability to talk, it's the ability to inspire people. It is, you know, it has an impact on the rival team you're playing because they go Klopp's here and big personality, big charisma. So Arnie Slott coming in after you. He's. He doesn't appear to be as have the same size of an aura. And I, I don't know, I just think big, big shoes to fill in terms of your aura.
- [81:46]
Jürgen Klopp
I have to go to the toilet.
- [81:48]
Steven Bartlett
I bet you do.
- [81:50]
Jürgen Klopp
Oh really?
- [81:51]
Steven Bartlett
Okay, okay.
- [81:54]
Jürgen Klopp
Okay, that's good.
- [81:57]
Steven Bartlett
Big shoes, big shoes. I would not want to fill such shoes.
- [82:03]
Jürgen Klopp
A couple of things. First and foremost I. I thought I have to say what I had to say when I announced my exit. If you want my retirement, whatever you call it at the time and people judge that wrong moment, blah blah, blah, whatever. You cannot change that the first one the feeling was I have to say that then you have to finish the season as good as somehow possible. In idle world you win something, we couldn't do that for whatever reason. And then you have to make sure because that's still something you have to do. You have to try to make it as easy as somehow possible for the guy who's coming after you. That's what I tried as well because I wanted them all to do incredibly well. And I always thought if somebody is not doing it that way it's a first. The first hint you can get that maybe he wants the next guy not to do it well. Everybody's shouting oh my God, he did that, he did that, he did that. And I don't need that. I want Liverpool to do well. I want Liverpool to win what they did. So what I liked a lot about Arnett and Arnold didn't hesitate what you said, no, I want to go in these shoes. Arnett didn't have that problem. He thought okay that's a. That's a great club, that's a great team. And he's right. It was a fantastic. It's a fantastic club and it's a fantastic team. And he stepped into that. We had a lot of contact after that. He was super, just super, super good guy and my God, what a team. Wow, thanks a lot. Blah blah blah. All these kind of things. Yeah. And he made the best. He got the best out of this team and they became champion in an incredible manner to be honest. So. And I'm really, really happy about that. So that's all, that's all you is it all about. It shows again it's all about how you see it. You can see you step into my footsteps. How you called it or you take over a fantastic football team.
- [84:06]
Steven Bartlett
It was a brilliant. I mean my. My best friend's a Liverpool fan and he said before you left actually he said this is the best squad Liverpool have ever had.
- [84:14]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [84:15]
Steven Bartlett
Arnie has inherited that squad which is considered to be the best squad by many people that Liverpool have ever had. And in that first year didn't really change much. There wasn't really. There wasn't any big signings coming. I actually heard from one of the players in Liverpool that them say to a really good friend of mine that the best thing Arnie had done was actually in that first year don't change much. Don't come in and try and radically change things.
- [84:39]
Jürgen Klopp
What Arneslot would say himself probably. I think he said it that's super smart. So it's not about what Arne wants to show the world what he can do. It's about how to get the best out of this team. And that's exactly what he did. Not changing much means he changed a little bit. We became third a year before. So there's not a lot you have to change, but a few decisive things you have to change and all of a sudden you win the league by some distance. So that's what it is. Not that he has to put his new own stamp. This team was good in a lot of ways, but we didn't win the year before. And that's what his job was. And he did that in an incredible impressive manner. And that's all you want. And you need people who have the confidence to do these kind of things because doesn't make sense if you have a manager who is not 100% sure about the things he wants to do. And I want us to play like this, or if that's not possible, I want to play like this or I want to. But we maybe completely different. That doesn't work. Being a football manager is already a challenge with all the different things you have to do. Being a football manager in such a competitive league like the Premier League is a real challenge. Being a football manager in the world we are living in with media, social media and all these kind of things, it's an incredible challenge. Believe me. You, you have no clue what's coming up. The next day you think, oh my God, where's that coming from? Who was that? Oh my player. You read a story, whatever, and all of a sudden you think, oh, from a problem it turns into your problem. And a wing so sorted and all the rest as well. So you need this kind of. I love that about Arne as he came in and, and took over and he knew he got a good team. Yes, it was. And did a perfect job.
- [86:42]
Steven Bartlett
I mean in terms of making changes this year you, Liverpool have spent what, 450 odd million, which is a crazy number. I mean the broke. I think he broken the transfer record in various positions several times with WS and with Isaac now as well. So change has arrived. These are, these are new people. They're coming in with their own ideologies from their previous clubs. They've all arrived at once. A lot of new faces at once. Is this not now where the challenge begins? Because this is, this is going to become Arnie's team now.
- [87:14]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, but that's not a problem. That's just completely normal. And it doesn't mean exactly that today was A lot of change. I mean no team, by the way, it's 450 or whatever. I don't know the exact numbers but they earned a lot of money as well. And change always has an impact and change always needs time. But people talk then about yeah but this if. No, that's not like that. He keeps this Exactly. Same team like last year. Darwin Nunez is still there. Luis Diaz is still there as an example. So they start playing it but they have problems, say yeah, we need a change. So now they're not there anymore. The new guys are there and they are good, really, really good players. It's not working out. I mean. Yeah. Why, why it's not working? Because development needs time. Then nobody can change that. And people need to find, need to adapt to situations and adapt to things and all these kind of things. So it's all, it's all good. It's all in place. What you have at Liverpool this year has to be in the competition in the decisive moments. And then they have to be ready to go for it. There's no guarantee that you then will win it again. That doesn't happen just like this. You cannot be champion, spend money and be championed again. The other teams don't sleep. That's how it is. And to become champ you need luck in moments here and there. That's how it is. Nobody wants to hear that but crossbar, over the line, not over the line. All these kind of things. It can go in your direction or in the other direction. So it's all fine. And we discussed the situation now like it's a struggle. Surprise. Yeah, we, we take, we take the money and throw it against them. 450 million. Yeah. But they earned 200 odd million as well. So it's all fine if you're with Liverpool and only these people are really. That's only the only people who matter if you are with Liverpool.
- [89:04]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah.
- [89:05]
Jürgen Klopp
You trust them and they do the right, they did the right stuff, they do the right things. So work on it and become the best football team this team can be.
- [89:14]
Steven Bartlett
You never had a transfer window like that where you spent that much money.
- [89:17]
Jürgen Klopp
No, we built, we built three stands and a training ground.
- [89:21]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah, exactly. And I remember the press conference, I think when you were referring to City's ability to spend money.
- [89:26]
Jürgen Klopp
I had no clue that this is possible. Nobody ever told me that it's possible that we can spend like that. My last year Liverpool so we obviously. So the Adidas deal, the new stadium, all these kind of things. Yeah, they earn more money but it was never. No, never ever. I could have asked for the amount of money, but that's not a problem. That time it was not there. No problem at all. Really not. And I love the fact that we were as successful as we were and build new stands and build a training ground, because we talk now about a transfer window in the way you want to talk about it, spend a lot of money, but there's no discussion about the stands and no discussion about the training ground. They are second to none. The training ground and the stands are wonderful. And at the same place where Anfield is, they could build pretty much a new stadium without leaving the old one. So that's a fantastic story. And that will stay forever. And maybe at one point they decide the cop could be even for more people or whatever. I don't know if that ever will happen, but you could do stuff there. And that's what I love about this. I think I really want as much as I can. It's not my first target because I have to win football games with my team, but I want that a club benefits from the time we were together, after we left. I want that.
- [90:55]
Steven Bartlett
This might be quite a naive observation, but in the time when you were at Liverpool, my assessment of Liverpool was you never. You didn't necessarily have the world's Most famous starting 11 team, but you could be anybody. So when you brought in Milner, who was at City before, and when you brought in these other players, I'd be like, why are they signing him? He's not. But then when they'd play for Liverpool, they would be unbelievable players and you could beat anybody. So there was almost this culture at Liverpool which I observed, where you didn't necessarily go for the Galactico plays. You weren't trying to get Ronaldo or Messi. You were going for sort of these players that had character and a culture fit. And ultimately that meant that, you know, you. At times it looked like you were playing with 12 men. And so this new. This transfer window that I've just observed, where you have gone for the very, very best names, you know, some of the best players on planet Earth that were number one choices for Real Madrid and the biggest clubs on Earth, I almost don't recognise Liverpool, it moving like that in a window.
- [91:56]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [91:56]
Steven Bartlett
There's part of me that I'm like, hopefully that this is their Falcao Di Maria moment, Ronaldo moment, where they fought big players, but they didn't think of culture. I'm praying.
- [92:05]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, you wish.
- [92:08]
Steven Bartlett
I wish.
- [92:10]
Jürgen Klopp
That's the difference. You wish Isa Gissang incredible striker. Incredible striker flew WC Orville eat your words. If you have the wrong. Use the wrong words or is an incredible talent etiquette. Incredible player. Yeah just offensive players. It's a really, really, really good well joined squat. If the young center half is not getting injured it's the perfect squat. Now he's injured, that doesn't help. Then you might be a vitality on the center half position. Besides that it's a perfect, perfect squad. Two super left backs, really super right back. So it's. It's just a really good football. That's how you set a team up. And now you have to deal with the situation. They all think they have to start the game. But that's a normal job. It's not. That's difficult over. That's the normal job. You have this discussion who will start a week or two in the third week one is injured, you're happy that the other can start. So that's. That's the. The world a football manager is living in. So we have. We don't have to worry about what's that really interest. So you don't have to worry about Liverpool. They will be fine.
- [93:22]
Steven Bartlett
This was the just the net spend graph of the different clubs while you were. While you were there. And it's quite clear that you. You weren't spending the same as your rivals during your time. And a lot of the fans in the media speculated that the owners, the Fenway Sports Group just weren't giving you the money but you were still getting the results. Which is pretty.
- [93:43]
Jürgen Klopp
No, no, no. So yeah. What's the. What's the public perception that I didn't ask for the money? That's probably not right. I probably had these conversations but I didn't ask. In a way, if you don't get it, we can do it. It's not my job to think about how much we can squeeze out of whatever area. I felt massively responsive. My idea was always with the boys. We have become the best team you can be. And you're right when you said we were maybe not the best team. I think it was a period when we played football. You could have thought that's maybe the best played by the best team. I don't know exactly. Between 18 and 20 there was a pretty long spell. But we always. And it was the idea we always were able to beat the best team and that was the idea because that's a constant thing. The next best. The next best. We can beat you. We can beat you. Be the best you know you are the one everybody wants to beat. I love that. So that's net spend and stuff like this I was never too worried about. We had all these conversations. Yeah I was happy with how it was. I couldn't have discussions with people. I cannot decide how much money we spent. It's not just not possible. Arne Slot cannot decide how much money Liverpool spend. That's how it is. There are other people who decide that. And if you have the money then you spend four really good players. What Liverpool did this year and I think it was the right thing to do. And I'm pretty sure one specific moment changed the whole transfer window. That was the saddest day of last year. And how do you replace somebody like Djoko? It's not about the player itself. It's about the guy he was. It was good with absolutely everybody. Absolutely everybody. His he arrived. He had no real. I think he was a bit surprised that we approached him that we asked for him and he came and then he delivered from day one. I remember still when I saw him the first time playing four Wolves he said Phew. What's that? When I went to the. You always hear these stories when people tell me. And it's true that Mo Salah they had to convince me and stuff like this. Not convinced that I take him. But it was like there were other players as well and moving was one of the others. And we decided all together for more. But it's fine. But this. Nobody came to me and told me Come on, let's have a look at yoga Jota. I saw him and I said please give me more material. I have to see him. And that's. And he excelled all the expectations as a guy. Super smart, super teammate. And now he sits in a dressing room and I cannot imagine right now the dressing room without him being that that's as so hard. It's so hard. I still cannot speak properly about it. It's really like that. It was an incredible shock. And that's for the boys as well. And I don't could think we don't speak about it because otherwise some bad journalists make a story of it. What I said about him and how it. What it means. Nobody at Liverpool will ever use it as an excuse. But it is the situation you walk every day in this room where he was omnipresent.
- [97:19]
Christian Heidel
He was.
- [97:21]
Jürgen Klopp
Can you imagine he To. To. To. To talk about Tim. He. He was so close with ch. With James Milner. They are not the same age group. They are nothing the same. It's Just he was so. But on the other side very close with Costasimicus. That's like mountain moon and Mars. So that's. That was him. And dealing with that as a per. On a personal level. Not easy. Impossible. And now as a club take all the emotional stuff out and think how do we replace him? And you have to think about that. Wow. That's difficult. Impossible I would say. And now we charge a transfer window where they buy the players. That was not the plan. I'm pretty sure the two that he had to get to replaced.
- [98:08]
Steven Bartlett
Do you remember where you were when you heard the news?
- [98:11]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, I got a message in the morning Boss, I have bad news. And then I got. And I got a message from. From a friend from Liverpool and I. I couldn't believe it. I just. It was not possible. I heard it and I know what it means but I couldn't believe it. The whole story. I saw all the pictures obviously from the wedding and all the boys were there and stuff like that. And it was so not only before that and I know exactly where I was. I was. Exactly how long I sat there without speaking a word. So it is a family member. It is exactly like that.
- [98:59]
Steven Bartlett
It.
- [99:04]
Jürgen Klopp
So look it's. It's. It's really like that. You have. It's. It's an example for the things you have to deal with without knowing at all. You cannot be prepared to deal with things like that. And today we talk about the transurbinder then if you want of Liverpool that would have looked completely different. So you have to sort the things you never expected that you have to think about. Everybody wanted this boy to play the next 10 years at Liverpool. All around player, all positions can play football smart.
- [99:42]
Steven Bartlett
On July 3, 2025 Diego was killed in a car crash alongside his brother in Spain. I think just before then he had got married to his partner and he had several beautiful children. He. He said of you. He said the first time you and him met he just felt your presence. He said I think that's one of his main characteristics. The way you can. You can just feel him only with his presence. And Diego went on to be incredibly successful under your leadership at Liverpool.
- [100:13]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Same. I could say the same. I could say the same about him. I was as impressed with his presence. Very, very special. Very special young man, I have to say.
- [100:31]
Steven Bartlett
How much of a role do does a manager like you play in the transfer window? This is something that's always speculated by the fans.
- [100:38]
Jürgen Klopp
Do you remember the first when I came and told me about a transfer committee I never had. They told me that the journalist asked me because they implemented a transfer committee because they didn't want have the managers that decisive in a transfer window. Obviously before me there were some issues. Yeah, there's no problem with that. I can discuss with everyone. As long as no player signs for the club I don't want. I'm used to not getting all the players I want. That's completely normal. It's not up to the coaches. We say we need one that player. And I say, yeah, it's too expensive. And they can ask again, sorry, can we make it happen. And knowing they all try absolutely everything to get the right price and get the player in. You cannot do anything with that that anybody in a club would bring in a player you don't. You don't agree on that does that. That's not possible. But it's very, very normal in a football coach manager life that you don't get all the players you want. So no problem with that as long as the transfer window is open. You try to create build the best possible squad. On the day after the transfer window, you have the best possible squad whichever transfers you made. And that's the way you go into the rest of the season.
- [101:54]
Steven Bartlett
Michael Edwards left during your tenure. He was sort of one of the key people that was responsible for looking for players and signing them. And he's back now.
- [102:05]
Jürgen Klopp
So first and foremost before I don't want to say anything because I really. We have a really good relationship. Michael is absolutely great in what he's doing. But it was not on one day his job alone to bring in players. There were a lot of other. Julian Ward, Ian Graham. So many people they were involved in Barry Hunter, all these kind of things. Were involved in these kind of things. It was a process. We were really. We were really close together. It's not one sitting there and being the genius and having producing ideas and you think, oh my God, he's available. I didn't even know him. He's like, we know football players. It's like negotiating. Finding the right moment to sell, finding the right moment to buy. That's a sporting director's job. What he was before. And now I don't even know exactly.
- [102:54]
Steven Bartlett
The role something in the holding company across the board.
- [102:58]
Jürgen Klopp
So Richard Hughes is now there doing incredible job. So these kind of things. It's all in idle world. So like people from outside are idolizing sometimes people like that. Definitely some of them with me and I do with Michael. But Michael never did A job alone. I never did a job alone. It was always like a really good. Yeah, they worked together just really well. We didn't have a lot of disagreements. Where you think. Where is that coming from? Why you want him? It's a process and football team is an open book. Everybody can read it every day. So if you want to add something, it should not be a surprise to everybody and think where's that idea coming from? You think we need a left back. Why we have already four. That doesn't happen. You are. It's a work on progress all the time during a season. But the transfer windows, it clash obviously. And English people in professional football enjoy D Day a bit more than probably in other countries. So that's what. I didn't get that to a full extent. But I learned a lot about the excitement of a good transfer window.
- [104:11]
Steven Bartlett
Did you always get on with them?
- [104:12]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, I would say 100. And Michael definitely. And Richard, I don't know. We spoke quite a few times after. After I left. So I like him. So. And I think they didn't. They did an incredible job, honestly.
- [104:25]
Steven Bartlett
Because you became bigger than the coach. You became such a huge. I mean you still are such a huge figure in the. In the city. I mean my. My assistant who's been with me, my pa has been with me for 10 years, she's from Liverpool and she. I'm probably gonna embarrass her now, but you're like the king to her. Not even in Liverpool. You're the king globally.
- [104:46]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [104:46]
Steven Bartlett
Because the way you did that. Exactly. If I was. If I was a Michael Edwards or someone else at the club and I was trying to. That you have. You had ultimate power. Kind of like Sir Alex Ferguson. He became, you know, he was everything. He is the state, he's on the stadium, he is the club. So I always wondered how anyone would be able to overturn your opinion or argue with you. When you are the city, you're like, you're the great Jurgen Klopp.
- [105:12]
Jürgen Klopp
But that's the outside world. Come on. I'm not an idiot. I don't sit there. And I always said I need other people to understand things. It's like my own opinion. I know already the more I get up, I know my opinion. So come on. How can you get a better view on it, on things? That's how it is. It's just by discussing with people. Yes. The final decision I have to make and I have no problem with that. But for that I need all people being really involved. And if you want to have an argument. Have an argument. In the end I will make the decisions. Absolutely no problem. Did we have argument? Maybe Yes. I don't remember them but it's not important because it's just in the end it's about the outcome. It's about what is best for the club and I never had a problem with that. I never thought they all have to please me. So I realized how famous I am after I left Liverpool they have no clue I was never in Liverpool. Out there on the bus it's normal that the people cheer because everybody is. They cheer for everybody. So I realized how good I was as a coach since I'm not in the job anymore so because I thought what I can do, everybody can do I realized maybe not. So it's 100% the truth because in the job you just try to sort every day the things in front of you. That's what you try.
- [106:34]
Steven Bartlett
Can I ask you about Nunes? He didn't seem very happy on your last day.
- [106:38]
Jürgen Klopp
Darwin.
- [106:38]
Steven Bartlett
Darwin.
- [106:39]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah. We had absolutely good relationship as good as can be with a striker who is not scoring as often as he wants as the people want and as I think he could have and with a striker who didn't play as often as definitely he wants. So how can you have a fantastic relationship? Is would it be if he would. I don't. I didn't see that picture. I heard about it. If he would have stand there and be the number one and jumping after me crying his eyes out and hugging me for 10 minutes I was okay. What's going on here? It's completely normal situation. I cannot. My first concern cannot be to please everybody. It's just not possible. It's not possible in that job. Easy. The first problem starts with 25 players 11 starting positions. So sorry More players are not happy than you make happy. That's already where it starts the problem. So now you have to get through this and I'm pretty sure he had super moments at Liverpool. We had super moments together and in my last day if I would have been him I would have thought as well. Okay, come on. The next one is a new chance for me because players do that if it goes really well for them. It's not that they think thanks to the coach if it's not going well they think it's okay he doesn't bring me often enough, it's not my fault. Blah blah blah all this kind of. We are humans, we are all the same though it's not that they are special in that moment and some of them think, yeah, I have to do more, I have to do more for the week one week two, week three and then think now I did three weeks more. It's still not pick, it's not picking me. So it's a bit. You cannot have always harmony and flowers and all these kind of things. That's a competitive environment and you need to perform to get what you think you deserve.
- [108:35]
Steven Bartlett
When did you decide, did you decide that you wanted to sign Darwin? How was that?
- [108:39]
Jürgen Klopp
How did that decision exactly like before we decided it all together involved in that process and yes, that's how it is nowadays. We would have loved to sign him for lesser money of course but it wasn't at the moment not possible. We needed a striker. We only wanted to have like an extra option for striker. Like we had Bobby, always the best false nine in the world. Yeah. And now we needed somebody with a bit more speed and stuff like this. We need the actions Mo and Sadio. I'm not sure if Sadio was still there. Probably not.
- [109:15]
Steven Bartlett
So Sadio win that year.
- [109:17]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, I think Sadio went that year so we had to change as well. So Luis Diaz great. Cody Gakpo great. What kind of player we don't have. I thought Cody can play a little bit like Bobby, good footballer on set but feels much better on the wing, all these kind of things. So yeah, of course we all signed him together. No problem to admit that it maybe didn't work out as good as could but without Darwin Nunes so many things wouldn't have happened. The biggest comeback of all times at Newcastle for example. Oh, I love that day.
- [109:53]
Steven Bartlett
I love that day we came on. Yeah, just give me 15 seconds to explain how you can build a viable business online. The people I see winning in life don't have a perfect plan. They just take the first step and then the next and then they keep going. They stay obsessed and they stay consistent. And Stan Store, a platform I co own and one of our sponsors is the best first step to help turn your knowledge into income. It only takes a couple of minutes to launch your business and start selling digital products, coaching memberships or communities online without any tech headaches or endless setup. Thousands of entrepreneurs, creators and risk takers use Stan to take control of their future. Because Stan is for entrepreneurs, for those willing to put in the work and bet on themselves. If you're ready to start building, join us. Launch your business today with a free 14 day trial at stevenbartlett. Stan store we launched these conversation cards and they sold out and we launched them again and they sold out again. We launched them again and they sold out again because people love playing these with colleagues at work, with friends at home, and also with family. And we've also got a big audience that use them as journal prompts. Every single time a guest comes on the diary of a CEO, they leave a question for the next guest in the diary. And I've sat here with some of the most incredible people in the world and they've left all of these questions in the diary and I've ranked them from one to three in terms of the depth, one being a starter question. And level three, if you look on the back here, this is a level three becomes a much deeper question that builds even more connection. If you turn the cards over and you scan that QR code, you can see who answered the card and watch the video of them answering it in real time. So if you would like to get your hands on some of these conversation cards, go to thediary.com or look at the link in the description below. Why did you leave? Why did you leave Liverpool? I watched your videos announcing your departure so many times and I was almost trying to read between the lines. Oh, I was trying to read between the lines.
- [111:50]
Jürgen Klopp
Tell me what you read.
- [111:51]
Steven Bartlett
No, I was just, you know, because you talk about just the energy, not having the energy for it. That's kind of how I was interpreting. You know, you, you sat down with your board, your board talked about plans for next year and you realized in that moment that you didn't have the energy to rebuild and go again, et cetera.
- [112:07]
Jürgen Klopp
No, no, not to rebuild. That we didn't have to rebuild. Yeah, I know that the team is a good team. So my expectation of myself is I'm the energy giver to everybody in this environment like that, if somebody struggles, come on, you can have my money. Don't need it. Let's go. I have to be on top of, absolute top of my game to be the guy who deserves to be the Liverpool manager. That's what I said when I said in the day, when I feel I don't know that anymore, then I don't. So that I say, okay, let's wait until everybody sees it and then they can give me the sack and la la, all these kind of things. I cannot do it like that. Not after the time we had to get. I realized I don't want to be there after all the time we had together, I don't want to be the guy. I don't want to go on tour to usa. Why Because I loved it all, every day. So it's then you realize, I need a break. Whatever. I need to have something else. And you cannot do that in that business. You cannot say, ladies and gentlemen, give me a year, see you later. And it's just not like that. And I really think we did what we had to do to say what we felt and thought in that moment. And it was exactly like that. I didn't have the energy to think about what's next. I didn't want to think about what's next. I just wanted to. To go. I was happy with finishing the season. But then, don't ask me, what can we do here, what can we do there? What can we do? It was all my responsibility for all the time. Because, yes, I don't decide money, but all the rest, it was in my hands from a specific moment on. Covid kicked in. No sporting director. Michael came after I left. It was not there anymore. It was not because we had a problem or whatever, not at all. It was just. They wanted to find a leader for the. For the pack. And found that with Michael and Richard and Arne obviously now working really close together. So that was the decision. But there was a time there was no Richard, no Michael, no Julian Ward. So it was just me sitting there like on top of all the things, and we had to win football games. But all the rest was on my plate as well. It was an intense time.
- [114:31]
Steven Bartlett
There wasn't a structure around you in that regard.
- [114:36]
Jürgen Klopp
Covid changed a lot. I mean, people didn't fly as much anymore. The owners didn't come that often over. It was like budget calls were on the phone, more or less. We brought in Joerg Schmatke, the Germans, because we didn't have a sporting director at the time. In fact, Julian came back, but then I don't even know exactly why he left again. So these kind of things that just happened and. And the only guys who were always there were we, the coaches and the football team. So they were just the normal stuff over a day.
- [115:07]
Steven Bartlett
So who was doing the sporting director stuff?
- [115:09]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, us. And together with. In that one, in that one window with. I think it was with Joerg Schmatke, the German guy we brought over. I don't even know if Julian Ward was still there. The lawyers, the scouts. So do you think you could ever.
- [115:26]
Steven Bartlett
Go back and manage Liverpool again? Is that within the realm of possibilities?
- [115:32]
Jürgen Klopp
I said, I will never coach another team, a different team in England. So that means if. Then it's Liverpool. Yeah. So yeah, theoretically. It's possible.
- [115:44]
Steven Bartlett
What would it take theoretically for you to want to do that? Psychologically?
- [115:50]
Jürgen Klopp
I don't even know exactly. I just. There must be. I love what I do right now. I don't miss coaching. I don't. I mean I do coach, but just different. Not. Not players. So. And I don't miss it. I don't miss standing in the rain two and a half, three hours and. And I don't miss going to press conference four times, three times a week, having 12, 10, 12 interviews a week. I don't miss that. I don't. So I don't miss being in the dressing room like in a sense of that I didn't have it often. I coached 10, 80 something games. So I was in a dressroom very, very often. And I don't want to die in a dressing room just because. So nice it smells. So it's these kind of things. But there might be something. I'm 58. That's from perspective, old, from other perspective, from the other side. It's not that old. That means I could make the decision in a few years. I don't know. Do I have to make the decision today? I will not coach again, but thank God I don't have to do that. I can just see what future brings. But now I'm involved in a project I really love and I love the people I'm working together with and the clubs we are responsible for and the countries the clubs are in. So I like doing what I'm doing right now. And in my mind only If I'm focused 100% on it, I can do it really good. And that's what I always wanted to do.
- [117:31]
Steven Bartlett
Those are the things you don't miss. What do you miss?
- [117:36]
Jürgen Klopp
Sometimes people. So yeah, sometimes I miss people like I wish I. So that's. I don't miss a dressing room as a dressing room, but sitting there in the restaurant with the players and having a nice chat. That it's nice. It was always nice when they were just in a good mood. We won a lot of games and so like there was often a very good mood in the building and standing there, hearing them laugh. I still have virtual laugh in my ear. For example. Yes, this kind. This part of the job is obviously. But that's for these players, which I had the last time. It's now do I miss it in general with football players? Not right now. It's not like that. But there's really not a lot, to be honest. What I miss because I'm still in the business I know most about. So the football part I don't miss because I have it. And the only thing is, like, don't have to be outside. I'm not the guy in the chair before a game and stuff like this. No, I, I honestly, that's, that's probably the best. I don't miss anything.
- [118:50]
Steven Bartlett
That's how it is when I look at your career. Mines, Dortmund, Liverpool, you seem to always be successful. And it's, it's extremely rare. It's extremely rare. And you seem to always succeed with a lot of passion and all those things. But my question is, you know, I think about the audience we have, which are often business people, leaders, CEOs. Is there anything else that we haven't touched upon that is central to your idea of getting the best out of a group of people? We talked about being a sort of bespoke leader, being the jigsaw piece you need to be to get the best out of a person. We talked about giving everything. Is there anything else that's really central to your philosophy of leadership and management that you think is important that we haven't touched upon yet? That young coaches might be able to.
- [119:36]
Jürgen Klopp
Create the best team possible. I mean, in understanding of the team, like really, there must be a reason why this team wins and not the other team. Because there are other teams out there, they try absolutely everything. So don't waste time with walking next to each other, not knowing anything about each other, not being bothered about the problems of each other, not being interested about each other. No, no, no. I want to grow together. And it was my job to help them to grow, to create situation where they could do that, to make sure. And if I had to be harsh to all of them that they found a way to get together, I did that. It was not what I said. It was what they needed to understand why we are a very special team in a very hard and difficult competition. But we have to find a reason why we deserve it more than others. Yes, that's what I say, what you have to do. And that's what people want to convince today, with knowledge. They want to say, I know everything about that. Look, I can tell you, I can explain it to you, sir, but it's in the end, that's one thing. And other people can know as well. It's about how close can we really grow together to go out there and smash the whatever out of them? So that's the thing. What I wanted or what I always did, so it was always clear for us we would walk. I don't know we would go through fire. I'm not sure if you say that anything, but we really would do absolutely everything and without me telling every day to find a way to grow as much together. That was obvious.
- [121:08]
Steven Bartlett
How do I get people to walk through fire? So you're talking about making sure the bonds amongst themselves are strong. I heard stories of you making sure everybody knew everybody's name when you first arrived and things like.
- [121:19]
Jürgen Klopp
But not players, but it was staff.
- [121:21]
Steven Bartlett
The staff, names, et cetera. What were you doing to get people to walk through fire?
- [121:26]
Jürgen Klopp
And that's exactly, that's exactly. That's a good question. There's no answer for the question because it means that would mean you say one thing and for everybody runs. That's not like that. You have to create a culture, an environment, a situation, a vibe where everybody realized this is special. The underlining message is, this is special. And now let's go for it. This is worth it. This means really more to all of us, that we really can fight more for it.
- [121:55]
Steven Bartlett
What is special?
- [121:56]
Jürgen Klopp
The togetherness, the way we had, the way we. And people can say that's in our club, the same. But the way we interacted in the training ground with the kitchen staff, with the respect we showed every day with the Kidman, with the gardeners, with all the people there, that was for me most important because you just realize that's the respect you show is the respect you get. You can't show respect, you don't deserve any. So that's how it is. And you don't have this. Not a lesson in the sense of that. I tell you, wait, sit here. You have to respect the gardener and then the other people will respect you as well. Ed said, you don't do it like that. It's just you learn that. Show respect, you get respect. Don't show respect, you don't deserve it. So all these little things over there, that's not a big thing. It's not every day I go for them and tell them, why is this different? Why is that different? The way you deal with situations. We found a way for us that the most important information about the game was what I said and not was in the media, not what's in social media. And when I said it was good, it was good. There was still all the things out there were written, but that were not important anymore. When I said it was not good, then could they write, yeah, but you won 3 nil. And then we found a way to talk about it and worked on it. We created our own world in that time, which was more important than the outside world?
- [123:23]
Steven Bartlett
How is not being respectful to the gardener going to lose you the Champions League? What is the through line?
- [123:31]
Jürgen Klopp
I believe, just in. If you cannot do that, if you don't appreciate what other people do, then you can't appreciate what your teammate is doing. If you don't, that's just a little sign. It's not that, of course, there's not direct impact from here to there, but in the end, I'm pretty sure if we would really have a. A brief look at it in one or two situations. Oh, he doesn't look like a proper fella. And then you go back to the beginning, would say, yeah, because he isn't.
- [123:58]
Steven Bartlett
I can tell you I'm fascinated by this point, because when I was. When I was at Old Trafford and the ladies who served the food in the boxes and lounges, when I'd ask them what was different after Fergie left, the thing they kept saying to me was, oh, it's just so different around here. And I'd say, explain to me how they go, I don't know, just teach me. Sir Alex Ferguson just knew our names. Yeah, that's what they would say. And it's a strange thing to hear that the only symptom that some of the staff in the stadium could point at was just the new leadership. Don't know our names.
- [124:29]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, but this is obviously not the answer to the Man United problems. That's just the situation with the ladies or whoever working in that area. But it shows. If that doesn't, then you don't know, theoretically, the names. What it shows is the togetherness is not there anymore. It starts already with a. Sir Alex was just different. And then you. Yep. But not on day one. But after 23 years, of course it was different. Of course he knew your name. He saw you growing up. So how can you compare that?
- [124:59]
Steven Bartlett
This was under Edward Wood, just for the context. This wasn't under Ineos or Amarim. This was before then, a couple of years ago.
- [125:05]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [125:06]
Steven Bartlett
And I just always found that, for me, that as a business leader, became a really interesting reference point, because, as you said, it's just a downstream symptom of something where the club has gone from feeling like a family and special and, you know, close and tight and these values to the decay of the values, and it's been all the way down to the stream at the bottom.
- [125:28]
Jürgen Klopp
But this is. This is a generation discussion, isn't it? Like in the past. Again, I'm not that Old that I say in the past everything was better for sure or not. But we are are differently raised. That's how it is. I came home, I walked home in a 1,200 people village. I had a 400 meter walk from the bus station to my home. I walked home. Obviously a lady crossed my way. I didn't can remember it. I arrived at home after 200 meters more meters. And then my mom said why you didn't say hello to Mrs. So and so what? So does that help me in life? I'm not sure. It's just how you get. It's just how you get raised. So I didn't run back and say sorry, hello. But next time, believe me, it leaded so in my life where everybody. A lot of people recognize me. So me difficult not to say hello to people because of that. But I start obviously getting attention. If I can get through something enough, I would say hello. That doesn't work properly for me anymore. But it's still in me. One thing is the things we read. The other thing is the things we feel. The other thing is how we get treated. We all are the result of a lot of things what happened to us. And as long as we are together, let's make sure that we influence each other as positive as somehow possible. And let's see where it leads us to. That's the idea.
- [126:54]
Steven Bartlett
I have a lot of managers or leaders or CEOs would focus on tactics and strategy first and foremost. And as you say, the information and all those things. But it appears that you focus somewhere else.
- [127:06]
Jürgen Klopp
Not first, same time. It's not first. It's not same time. It's same time. I 24 hours a day, two hours time for training. There's not a lot more you can do. Maybe you have another in the preseason. Definitely more than another session. 2 hours, 4 hours, 20 hours left. 7, 8 hours sleep, 12 more hours. Welcome. What can we do with that? Let's become the best group we can be. So that's. I'm 100% interested in definitely the best.
- [127:34]
Steven Bartlett
Group we can be. That's those relationships, those values.
- [127:37]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [127:38]
Steven Bartlett
And were there any particular changes you made to how the team interacted with each other? I know that the INEOS guys told me at Manchester United they've changed the like make canteens so that people don't sit on separate tables now and the team are together when they eat. Just small things like this that some people might think are inconsequential. Are there any things that you changed? Any rules or policies I don't like.
- [128:02]
Jürgen Klopp
These obvious things too much. If you don't like each other, the size of the table makes no difference, to be honest. I don't say that's not important. I don't see the real effect. I want to reach it in a different way. I want to introduce them to each other in a specific way. On the pitch, by the way. That's where it starts. Because we have a football team. We are not the community and just sit there and drink tea and eat biscuits. It's a real competitive environment and it's all to. To get the best out of the boys on the football pitch. So rules. Pitch rules, dressing room. But then there's so many things left and right of the rules. There's so many things you can do together. There's so much to talk about, so much to know about, and that's what life is. Otherwise, we just live next to each other and we don't benefit from each other. That makes no sense. I don't want to make it bigger than it is, but my general understanding from football to. To become the best football team you can be. This is as important as tactics. As important as tactics that can have the best tactics that the guys don't respect, don't like each other. Nobody will see them ever. Ever. So if the worst tactics. But they love each other, boy, they still can win. That's possible. Idleworld Great team, good coach. You have a good chance to be successful.
- [129:39]
Steven Bartlett
I have. I have two pictures that haven't shown yet, but this. This particular picture is of Elizabeth.
- [129:46]
Jürgen Klopp
Mama.
- [129:47]
Steven Bartlett
Your mama.
- [129:48]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah. 2011 we became champion with Dortmund, my home club. As for Claen invited me build a stage. My elder sister wrote a poem. My mom couldn't have been prouder. Obviously that day I saw my teammates from my first football team. They were all there. Nobody would have thought that somebody from there would arrive where I was there. Yeah. Great day. Lisbeth was really, really nice woman, I have to say.
- [130:29]
Steven Bartlett
She passed away in 2021 after falling ill. Because of everything that was going on at the time with the pandemic, you weren't able to attend her funeral because of the travel restrictions and all those kinds of things. She did get to see your. Your success. She got to see.
- [130:47]
Jürgen Klopp
There's a big difference. So I was not in her funeral. And that was the. Sounds crazy. The online funeral was one of the saddest things I experienced in my life. But they made it happen. At least that was good that we could see it, that we could be part of it we couldn't be there. My mom had in the end had dementia. So it's not that she would have known that I was not there when she was lying there. That's not a nice thing. But she saw the maturity of my working life if you want. My dad didn't see my coaching life. So that's the. There's no. Nothing is perfect. But mom was super happy. Was a very happy lady until she could remember us and see us and recognize us and the time and she couldn't do that anymore. Yeah. Was not too long. But that's a. Can't wait for the day when somebody finds a solution for these kind of things for these kind of diseases and because in the age obviously you don't think about it but if you come older they think who dies today just of a heart attack and not by having already dementia or stuff like this and don't recognize the kids anymore and stuff like this. You don't want that you just can get through this by ignoring the fact and hoping that science will find a way until we get there. Yeah. She.
- [132:27]
Steven Bartlett
She started to lose her memories of her family because of dementia.
- [132:32]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah. So like the normal things on phone. She didn't know. Didn't recognize my voice first. This is a. This is a strange. Strange disease or whatever however call it. It closed so many doors and opens others so long time memory. Incredible. She recognized ladies in the street. They were together in primary school. Stuff like this. But didn't know who we were. Suggest these kind of things. It's not. It's not a competition of things you. You forget or whatever. There are a lot of things you forget and especially for the people. And that was my sisters who took care of her. Obviously that's not nice if she don't recognize you. Who are you? Go away these things.
- [133:17]
Steven Bartlett
How is that to do. How is that to deal with as a family member when someone you love a parent can no longer recognize who you are. It's almost like it sounds like a grief as a heartbreak.
- [133:30]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah. I think obviously my sisters were around so for them it's harder of course because they were around. For me it was not a problem at all because I knew she loved me more than our life. In a moment she can recognize me anymore that it was not a problem for me. I just felt for her that I said that is really. That it's really so that's so hard. Must be so hard if you have bright moments where oh I know. Oh my God, you are here. What are you doing here? And Then going again. Yeah. It's really not nice. And I really sincerely hope that we find. Yeah. Medication for that. I think science is in a good way, but still a long way to go. But thanks for this picture. I have it on my phone somewhere, but I don't have it as a. Yeah, thank you very much.
- [134:20]
Steven Bartlett
Faith is a big part of your life as well.
- [134:22]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [134:23]
Steven Bartlett
You believe in God.
- [134:24]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [134:26]
Steven Bartlett
And from what I understood, that's not always been the case. When you're a younger man, you weren't religious in the same way that you are now. Is that accurate or.
- [134:33]
Jürgen Klopp
I wouldn't even say I'm religious. I believe, but I don't know 100% what religious means to be 100% honest. But it's this lady. My mom prayed every night before going to bed. But the problem, the one thing we prayed, the other thing she said, because she couldn't be hard with me, she just had no weapons. The only thing she could say, don't forget, if you do that again, I will have to tell the dad at the weekend when he's coming back. So it was like the only threat she had, the only weapon she carried around. And I obviously was smart enough to realize that whatever I did, she never told my dad. From time that I went to church, I had a short spell where I thought, because Sunday morning church was when I played games, I have to go to church, I cannot play football anymore. But that lasted exactly one game. So one Sunday they thought, God cannot be that hard. He cannot think that I have to go to church when I love football so much. It can't be like that. And he isn't, I'm pretty sure. So I found my way. For me, it's to live together. We have to make sure that we don't think the only thing. What is interesting is my own well being. We have to make sure that we really understand. Being alone in a good position doesn't help. Yes, it's completely normal that we all try to get as far as we can in our career, in our life and all these kind of things. But it's really important that we make sure that we really try to work properly together, to live properly together and all these kind of things. For me, this is my faith. It's based on this understanding is based on my faith and common sense, obviously. And that's the way I believe. And I think that's the best thing you can say about religion when it's like that, that it keeps people in a good place. If religion can't do that then that's not the right religion for me. So it's really about that. We have to be tolerant. We have to. It's no problem. It's a wonderful planet, It's a wonderful world we are living in. But it's not for one or two. It's for all of us. And we have to make sure that that works out. And I think the right faith can help you with that. But I don't know what is the right faith. I only know what is for me. So, yeah, for me, it's the right thing to do. And I never doubted it, to be honest, with all the information you get in life, God is real for me and Jesus, of course. Yeah.
- [137:24]
Steven Bartlett
What goals have you got left to accomplish, Jurgen? What is left on your list, if anything at all? Because you're right, you're probably halfway through your life. The way things are going in terms of people, the life expectancy increasing halfway through 116.
- [137:37]
Jürgen Klopp
We have the next podcast. Yeah, I want to travel. That's what we are doing. Start now. I want to be together with Ola as much as I can, but not. Not that much that she or I don't want to be around each other anymore. Because I really think you see people and think, what is your husband doing? Oh, is he at home? Oh, God. So, no, no, no, I'm not that. But I'm very busy, so I'm a lot away, so that's fine. But I want to spend with her, with the kids, with the grandkids. I don't have this kind of ambitions. I want to do really well for Red Bull. Really well. I feel already responsible for all the people I work together with. That's a very interesting thing for me. I feel so quick, really responsible, but I do. So I want to do it as good as we can. Have the best time possible. Let's see what happens then. But on a private basis, I can tell you, with all the things happening around, stay healthy and enjoy this part of life. Because, you know, now most things happened and most things were really good. There was another time when you're not sure where you want to go, where can. What's possible, how safe you will be and all these kind of things. Where will you live in the future? And so I know where we will live. I know how things worked out. That's really good. I'm not that old that I cannot move so much. Move and try and do sports and travel and all these kind of things. So I. I'm more than happy with the things how they. How they panned out, how they happened. I'm really, really happy. I'm surprised how my career was. I. I never thought that. And you cannot plan it and. And stuff like this. I'm super happy with my private life how it is. Super happy with the misses, super happy with the kids, super happy with the grandkids. It's all really good. So what can you want more, really, without sounding ridiculous that you think, oh, you still want that? And the rest is job. And the job I always wanted to do as somehow possible. And that's still the case. Is he a Man United fan? Why?
- [139:51]
Steven Bartlett
If you ever want a job at a football club, Manchester United. Edward.
- [139:53]
Christian Heidel
Yeah.
- [139:54]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, yeah. After all the time we spent together. Yeah. You want to tell me that? Yeah.
- [139:59]
Steven Bartlett
No, but you know, it's. It's really. It's really interesting to me because I think there's always an assumption that people want to continue to.
- [140:06]
Jürgen Klopp
I don't. I don't understand that. Do the same you do, because that's what you are good at. I know I'm good as a manager.
- [140:13]
Steven Bartlett
I know.
- [140:14]
Jürgen Klopp
So why should I? I don't have to prove that. Not even to me. I have to prove that I. I can raise my hand and tomorrow I can coach club X, Y and Z clubs who are happy now with sector manager. And I don't want that. So. So. But to be my best friend, that might come back that I say, okay, I'm ready. That might. I don't know today. But in this moment it's not that I cannot do what I do while thinking with one leg being still there. I was never like that. I never looked right or left when I was at Mainz. I could have changed the club club every year for the first seven. It was so obvious that something is going on. They are pretty special. The clubs want. Oh, we want to have him. And I never thought a second that I want to go there. I wanted to stay at Mainz to. To. To do what we do and to learn what I thought I have to learn. Same at Dortmund, same at Liverpool. Until I thought it's not right. If that comes again, let's see what we can. What we will do. That's what the decision I wanted. I wanted to. Didn't want to make the job until I barely can move. I barely can travel. I barely misses. Can you help me? I don't want. I didn't want to do that. Here you're sitting. And yes, I'm 25 years older than you, but we both could probably run around the corner now. And it would not be the biggest difference.
- [141:31]
Steven Bartlett
You're in great shape.
- [141:33]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, that's it. Because I train, that's how it is. But I never did while I was a manager. That's the next thing. It just grew more and more and more. And now we have time for that as well. So it's good how it is.
- [141:47]
Steven Bartlett
Well, you, even as a United fan, you brought so much to the Premier League that it was. It was weirdly sad. Also, very happy when you decided that you were going to leave. I felt two feelings at the same time. I felt very, very happy that this was. This Liverpool era, in my view, was over. Because I thought there's no way you leaving. You're more than just a manager. You're the spirit of the city. You're the spirit of the fan base. You actually sort of personify the Liverpool fan base in my mind. Extremely passionate, all in togetherness. And as you know, your former. I think he was your chairman or owner of mine. Said you did. You brought. You brought the team together, you then brought the city together. And that had a profound impact both on Liverpool, but also on the Premier League and on my enjoyment and my misery as a rival fan. And that's a really, really remarkable thing. You've also inspired me as a lot on a personal level, as a leader. Just about, you know, everything you said there about how important it is to focus equally on the people and the team and the togetherness and not just on the tactics and the strategy and how passion can be a wonderful accelerant for performance and for feeling like this is special. And that's something that I think you've personified as a leader. We. We have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for.
- [143:04]
Jürgen Klopp
Oh, and the question is for me, not a message.
- [143:07]
Steven Bartlett
Yes. Oh, question that's been left for you as you look back on your career. Is there a particular moment, a particular conversation, a particular day that if you could, you would go back and change or say something you wish you had said?
- [143:30]
Jürgen Klopp
I honestly, the problem is I would probably would say no, I wouldn't go back and try to change it because it wouldn't have a big impact. The situations we had, the big situations I could influence with the things I said, the specific moments which were then decisive. You just stand there and watch Aguero in or not in. We have the same problem with United. You. We ever think that he scored, the ball goes in or the ball is over the line for 11 minutes or not. That has nothing to do with what I say. Would I wish if I could go there and give it a little push? Yes. Would I wish James Madison would block the shot of Vincent Kompani that he cannot score the goal against Leicester? Yes. But it had nothing to do with what I said. And so the things I said, I said in the moment for the right reasons. And sometimes they had the impact I wished and wanted and sometimes not. Yeah, I had to accept that.
- [144:45]
Steven Bartlett
That was the other thing that Jamie Carragher asked. He said, oh, when you see. When you see. Ask him how he feels about his former assistant manager, Pep Lingers going and working and working at Manchester City.
- [144:58]
Jürgen Klopp
Absolutely no problem. I like it. I like both Peps. That's how it is. No problem with that. I work together with Pep Blinders. He was an inspiration for me every day when we worked together. Absolutely every day. I learned a lot from him and Pep Guardiola. I couldn't respect the manager more. And when they asked me like a bit, what do you think? Can we. Of course you can. Pep Linus. I said, come on, find a guy who worked together with Pep Linus, Pep Guardula and Jurgen Klopp. I would read the book and. Yeah, and Pep knew exactly. Pep Guardula knew exactly what he was looking for. Yeah, he wanted to, you know, exactly this kind of spark fire from. And Pep has that. Pep is. Pep Lyndors has that. He's an extreme well of. Of energy. And so I'm happy for them both.
- [145:58]
Steven Bartlett
We're playing you guys this week. This weekend. On Sunday.
- [146:02]
Jürgen Klopp
What?
- [146:04]
Steven Bartlett
Manchester United, Liverpool. This Sunday. You didn't know? It's at Anfield. It's a Premier League derby. That's crazy that you don't know.
- [146:12]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah, yeah.
- [146:13]
Steven Bartlett
But hopefully after. So this will come out just after that. So I'm hoping that's four losses.
- [146:17]
Jürgen Klopp
Oh, we come after that.
- [146:18]
Steven Bartlett
Yeah.
- [146:20]
Jürgen Klopp
When do we get on?
- [146:21]
Steven Bartlett
Hopefully the day after, but we'll see. So hopefully this is your fourth. Liverpool's fourth loss in a row. And the fan base are growing increasingly impatient and they're annoyed and Amaram has now won another. Another game in a row. So this is. This conversation will come out straight after.
- [146:38]
Jürgen Klopp
Well, now we've playing the Enfield. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good luck. They have to strike back. Yeah. You know, that's never a good situation. You know the two days ago. So I just. In the morning, I wake up pretty early in the morning, so I throw on YouTube and have a look and it. It shows me behind the scenes footage from the 7L.
- [147:03]
Steven Bartlett
The 7L go, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [147:05]
Jürgen Klopp
And I never saw that. I never saw it. But it's like the seven hill. Obviously I know the goals and stuff, but it's the camera different. It's in the stands. It's really good. So, okay, fine, I watch it. 19 minutes, really good. So all the goals again. And you see players in the dressing room. All the way to the dressing room. Really good. The next day I. I open and. Because you know how it is with the algorithm now I see the 5 nil at Manchester. So. And I watch that. And today I come here and had no clue that you are Manchester United fan. So I was really well prepared for that talk. I have to say, without knowing.
- [147:44]
Steven Bartlett
Damn.
- [147:45]
Jürgen Klopp
Yeah.
- [147:46]
Steven Bartlett
Thank you so much, Jurgen. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you for being an inspiration to me. But also thank you for all that you brought to the Northwest and to Liverpool.
- [147:52]
Jürgen Klopp
Sure. Thanks. Welcome. It was my pleasure, honestly.
- [147:56]
Steven Bartlett
Thank you so much. And I've learned so much from you as a leader and also as a man. And in the lead up to this, I spoke to so many people around you that have worked with you. I contacted Jordan Henderson, I spoke to Carragher, who knows you through various people. I think he managed him for one game. He said in Australia, in the Australia game. And they all said the same thing. They all said that you're the same man on and off the camera. You're a person that brings people together. You're extremely likable, but you have high standards and are an incredibly passionate person. And that the narrative was consistently, here's the same man on and off camera, which is a credit to yourself. And no wonder why people were willing to walk through fire with you. Yeah, it's. It's incredible what you've accomplished. And I hope, selfishly, as a football fan, I hope we. We see you back in the game at some point. Maybe Real Madrid or Manchester, you know, whatever.
- [148:40]
Jürgen Klopp
You never know. You never know.
- [148:42]
Steven Bartlett
Thank you so much.
- [148:47]
Jürgen Klopp
Sam.