Moment 186: Why You Have No Friends: Simon Sinek

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Moment 186: Why You Have No Friends" featuring Simon Sinek

Podcast Title: The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Episode: Moment 186: Why You Have No Friends
Host: Steven Bartlett (A)
Guest: Simon Sinek (B)
Date: [Assumed based on transcript]

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Introduction to Friendship Dynamics

[00:03] A: Steven Bartlett opens the conversation by probing the quality of friendships in today's society. He questions whether individuals are genuine friends to their friends and whether their friends reciprocate the same level of support. He highlights the contemporary trend of individuals turning to social media, such as creating TikTok videos, for validation during tough times instead of reaching out to friends.

Notable Quote:
"People who are depressed make TikTok videos by themselves... But to call a friend and say the same thing you're struggling with is actually more difficult." — A [00:03]

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The Absence of a Friendship Support Industry

[00:33] B: Simon Sinek remarks on the lack of an industry dedicated to fostering and maintaining friendships. He suggests that society takes friendships for granted, leading to an unmet demand for tools and resources that could help sustain these relationships.

[00:39] A: Steven Bartlett counters by asserting that the demand for better relationships is indeed present but often goes unrecognized. He draws parallels to the existing industries that support marriages and romantic relationships, pointing out the absence of similar structures for friendships despite the evident need.

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Intentionality in Friendships

[02:00] A: Steven delves into the concept of intentional friendships, emphasizing that friendships require deliberate effort and prioritization similar to professional commitments. He criticizes the tendency to prioritize work over personal relationships, leading to neglected friendships.

Notable Quote:
"Why don't we treat our friends with the same intentionality that we treat any other meeting?" — A [02:00]

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Case Study: Will Gudera's Exemplary Friendship

[03:00] A: Steven shares an inspiring story about Will Gudera, who exemplified extraordinary friendship by consistently reaching out to a grieving friend. After the friend's father passed away, Will committed to calling him daily at the same time, regardless of whether the friend answered. This unwavering support eventually fostered a strong, enduring friendship.

Notable Quote:
"It can. It brings me to tears just thinking about it." — A [05:00]

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Defining a True Friend

[05:00] A: The conversation shifts to defining what constitutes a true friend. Steven explores the idea that a genuine friend is someone who stands by you during both good and bad times. He warns against codependent relationships where one party is only present during hardships, labeling such individuals as “foul-weathered friends.”

[06:35] B: Simon agrees and adds that societal shifts, such as the rise of remote work and digital interactions, have eroded the traditional skills required to forge deep friendships. He recounts personal observations of young men struggling to make friends despite being surrounded by peers, highlighting the paradox of loneliness in populated settings.

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The Role of Mobility and Sociability in Longevity

[06:35] A: Steven introduces a fascinating perspective linking physical health and social connections to longevity. He posits that maintaining mobility through healthy thigh muscles historically facilitated walking and social interactions, thereby enhancing life expectancy. He underscores that modern technology has disrupted these natural socialization avenues.

Notable Quote:
"Historically, thighs are the most important muscle responsible for motion. Healthy thighs mean mobility, which means sociability." — A [06:35]

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Challenges in Modern Friendship Building

[07:43] B: Simon discusses the challenges posed by contemporary lifestyles, where technology and remote interactions make it increasingly difficult to form meaningful friendships. He references personal experiences of individuals seeking advice on making friends despite being surrounded by peers, illustrating the gap between quantity and quality in friendships.

Notable Quote:
"If it was so simple, he would just do that... we've kind of like, lost the art or the skill of making friends." — B [07:43]

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Personal Anecdote: The Power of Mutual Support

[09:23] A: Steven shares a personal story about shifting from a one-sided support system to a mutual support arrangement with a friend. Initially, he provided unwavering support to a friend in crisis, only to realize that both parties benefited when they began to support each other equally. This reciprocal relationship not only strengthened their bond but also helped both individuals navigate their personal struggles.

Notable Quote:
"If we dig down deep, the true skill that we've lost is service. We've overemphasized taking over giving." — A [09:23]

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Conclusion: The Essential Role of Service in Friendships

The episode concludes with an emphasis on the importance of service and selflessness in maintaining true friendships. Steven Bartlett and Simon Sinek advocate for fostering relationships that are mutually supportive, highlighting that intentionality and consistent effort are key to overcoming modern challenges in friendship building.

Final Thought:
"We've overemphasized selfish over selfless. Selfish is important, but not at the expense of giving and not at the expense of serving." — A [09:23]

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Key Takeaways

1. Intentional Effort: Friendships require deliberate and consistent effort similar to professional commitments.
2. Balanced Support: True friends support each other during both good and bad times, avoiding one-sided, codependent relationships.
3. Impact of Technology: Modern technology and lifestyles have made it harder to form and maintain deep, meaningful friendships.
4. Service-Oriented Relationships: Engaging in mutual support and service can strengthen friendships and contribute to personal well-being.
5. Longevity and Social Connections: Maintaining physical health and sociability are interconnected factors that contribute to a longer, happier life.

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For More Insights and Episodes:

• Book: Steven's New Book
• Instagram: @steven
• LinkedIn: Steven Bartlett

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Transcript

[A]

Are you a good friend? Are you a good friend to your friends? Are your friends good to you? You know, who do you. Do you call people when you are stuck and down? Or do you make TikTok videos by yourself? Which you know and you get. I mean, literally, people who are depressed make TikTok videos by themselves. I don't know how many times they reshoot that either. To post it, to get the validation for their feelings. But to call a friend and say the same thing you're struggling with is actually more difficult.

[B]

Why doesn't the industry exist? Because typically, and we take it for granted. Yeah. So the demand isn't there for those kinds of things.

[A]

But that's the problem, which is, I think the demand is there. We don't realize it. Right. Like, we know that our relationships fail and our marriages fail. So there's an entire industry to help us maintain better relationships. Well, friendships fail and we think we have friends, yet we still struggle and feel lonely. If you have good friendship, you will not feel lonely. You may have moments of loneliness. And in those periods, you will pick up the phone and say to your friend, I need you. I'm lonely. And your friends will be there. You will feel not alone. Right. Or. And you and I have talked about this, about, you will feel that someone will get in the mud with you. And I think the problem is we don't give intention to friendship. So think about it. And you and I are both guilty of this. In fact, I would argue that everybody's guilty of this, which is, we've got plans booked with a friend. Let's call it a lunch. A work thing comes up, we call up the friend, I got a work thing. And the reason we keep bumping our friends is because they'll understand. They're our friends. So why aren't we prioritizing our friendships? Why aren't we saying to the work thing, I'm sorry, I've got a thing. I've got. If we had another meeting, we would say, sorry, I've got an appointment, I can't make it. So why don't we treat our friends with the same intentionality that we treat any other meeting? So one of the things that Will did for a friend that I thought was genius, brilliant, beautiful. Will Gudera, who I'm writing the book with, Will's friend's dad died. Will texted him and said, I feel for you. I know what you're going through. I lost my mom at an early age. I'm sure you're being inundated with Calls and texts. So I'm not going to call you today. But what I will do is I will call you every Single day at 9:45am do not feel obligated to pick up. I don't mind if you don't mind, but when you're ready, know that I'm calling you. And for the next, I think it was three months, eight months, something, he called every single day at 9:45am and for the first week, his friend didn't pick up at all. And then after the first week, he picked up every day and they talked every day for months. Like, think about the intentionality that somebody who loves and cares about you so much that they will call you every single day at 9:45 just so that you can see their name pop up and the caller ID to know that you're not alone. I mean, it can. It brings me to tears just thinking about it. Like, how many of us are, are that good a friend? You know, I want friends like that. Here's a good question. Like, what's a friend? Like, what makes a good friend? Like, I don't even know if we have a definition of that. You know, I've been asking people and somebody said to me, well, somebody who's there for you, to support you in the hard times, that's a real friend, right? And I got thinking and I talked to somebody else. She has a friend who she calls Mr. Schadenfreude because he seems to love when things go wrong. So in hard times, he's always there. He's always there in hard times. He's got the shoulder to lean on, he's giving advice, but in good times, he's nowhere to be seen. And so what happens is it creates this horrible sort of codependent relationship that you want to keep the hard times because that wonderful human being is always there. So you never want to let go and you become codependent. And so you realize that there's something called a fair, weathered friend who's only there in the good times. But be equally cynical and suspicious of the foul, weathered friends who's only there in the hard times because somehow it makes them feel good about themselves. But they're not there for the good times. And so you realize, what's the, what's the value of good time versus bad time? So, yes, yes, you and I have friends that in hard times we would call them, but I would bet money that you have even fewer friends that you want to text out of the blue and say, I won an award, right? Think about that. Like, if something goes wrong, I've got a group of friends, probably. I've probably got a, you know, a dozen people I could say and say, I need your help. Things have gone horribly wrong. I need your advice. But if something amazing happens to me, that number probably shrinks down to four. That I'm going to text out of the blue and go, something amazing happened today. And not feel like I'm bragging, not feel like I'm trying to overwhelm them or prove them that I'm better than them, but knowing that they will be so happy for me. And so I've started thinking that maybe a friend isn't just the person who's there for you in the hard times, but the person you can go to in the great times. Think about that. I have fewer friends that I can go to when things go perfectly than I would go to when things go wrong. So are those my true friends? So this is on the journey I'm on. I'm trying to understand what friend means and I'm trying to understand the responsibility we have to look after those friends. You look at all the longevity studies, all the blue zone work. Sure, they eat healthy, sure they walk a lot, but they also eat with each other. Whereas you look at some of the people who are promoting sort of longevity and all of those biohacks and how you have to exercise the certain way and eat the certain way, you'll find a lot of them are pretty unhappy people and pretty lonely people. I don't think they're going to live very long, right? So here's a crazy, crazy one. Here's a crazy, crazy one. Physiologically, right? What are the most important organs to keep strong for longevity? Like, we know the data, right? So I'll tell you what they are, right? Number one, heart. Obviously, that makes perfect sense, right? You gotta have a healthy heart if you want to live a long time, right? Second one, lungs. Gotta have healthy lungs to live a long time. Cardio and all the rest of it, right? Don't smoke. Like, we know. That makes perfect sense. Do you know what the third most important organ is?

[B]

I don't know. I was going to say the brain.

[A]

But the thighs, thigh muscles are the. So if you have a healthy heart, healthy lungs and healthy thighs, statistically you're more likely to live longer. I know. I said the same thing. Thighs. Do you want to know why? Because historically, thighs are the most important muscle responsible for what? Motion. Walking, Right. Not exercise. Social. Going to visit your friends. Before there were cars, before there were trains we had to walk to go visit our friends. And so people who are mobile, if you're more mobile, you're more likely to maintain friendships, which means you're likely to live longer. So the three most important organs to keep healthy, historically, as human beings, heart, lungs, and thighs for mobility, thighs for sociability, which I think is amazing that we never thought about. So all of these things that technology has interrupted, mass transportation, cars, you know, social media, all of these things, they've interrupted our ability to make friends, proper friends, where you can look each other in the eye. You and I could do this over zoom.

[B]

It wouldn't feel the same, but the macro. So the remote work culture, the rise in, as you say, screens and phones, optimizing interaction out of our lives. I mean, like, you know, if you think about social networking or Uber Eats or, I don't know, deliveroo, you're living your life behind a screen in white walls now, and it feels like it's becoming harder and harder and harder to make friends. Also to find someone, remember to make friends. In fact, what's interesting thing is sometimes when I come off stage, I'll have. It's always young men come up to me and they'll get right up in my personal space and I go, this is strange. And then they'll say something to me like, how do I make friends? And they. And I. I respect them so much for saying it because I can see how difficult it is for them to utter those words. And I reflect on it. I was doing something at Canary Wharf, and a kid in the front row in a crowd of 500 people, they're all wearing suits because they're working in the corporate world. He's surrounded by 500 of his peers his age in the front row, past the microphone. His question to me on stage is, how do I make friends?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's 499 people sat next to him that are his age.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And he's asking in the front row, how do I make friends?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was so moving because, you know, looking down on that individual surrounded by people, I'm like, well, you know, the brain, the simple brain goes, well, just turn to the person next. You introduce yourself. But clearly that was not the answer, because if it was so simple, he would just do that. And you said something interesting as well, which I think maybe overlays with that, which is that we've kind of like, lost the art or the skill of making friends.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

What would you have said to that kid?

[A]

So I'll tell You by way of a story how I would answer that. So a friend of mine was struggling her career, it wasn't going as well as she'd wanted, and her marriage was in a bad place. So in other words, when it rains, it pours. Like, she couldn't get a break, right? And she was in a really bad place. And so she knows what I do for a living. So she said. She asked me, can you help? Can I come and talk to you and get some advice? And I said, of course. And so we had a standing Wednesday meeting, get together. We got together every Wednesday for 90 minutes, and she would tell me what was going on in her life. I gave her some advice. She felt amazing when she left me. It lasted about two days, and then she'd go back into her slump. And then we get together the next Wednesday, she'd feel amazing for about two days, and she'd go back into Islam. And this went on for months. This was our pattern, right? So I thought I was doing good work, and then it. Then I just rinse and repeat, right? Then I remembered my own work, and I remembered Alcoholics Anonymous, which is the final step. The 12th step is service. Helping somebody who's struggling with the problem you're struggling with, right, Is the way to actually help you overcome your problem. So I. I have struggles, I have needs, I have insecurities, and I don't have a safe outlet to talk to. So she's one of my closest friends in the world. I trust her implicitly. So I said to her, I need the coaching as well. Can we split our time? 45 minutes for me, 45 minutes for you. She agreed. And I knew what I was doing. There was kind of an experiment happening, which I didn't let on, which is I wanted her to help me as a way of helping herself. And so what ended up happening was it ceased to be 45. 45. We got together, and for 90 minutes we talked about me. And then the next Wednesday, we got together, and for 90 minutes we talked about me. And then we got together, and for 90 minutes we talked about me. And within about three or four weeks, her life was full on. Back on track, fully back on track. Because when you help someone with a thing that you are struggling with, you actually end up solving your own problems. And so what I would say to that kid is, find somebody who's struggling to make a friend and help them make a friend. Make it an act of service. Because fundamentally, if we dig down deep, the true skill that we've lost is service. We've overemphasized taking over giving. We've overemphasized selfish over selfless. Selfish is important. Taking is important, but not at the expense of giving and not at the expense of serving.