Moment 201: Harvard Psychiatrist Reveals The #1 Foods You Must STOP Eating To Heal Your Brain

Summary

Episode Summary: Moment 201 - Harvard Psychiatrist Reveals The #1 Foods You Must STOP Eating To Heal Your Brain

Podcast: The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett
Host: Steven Bartlett (DOAC)
Guest: Dr. Chris Palmer, Harvard Psychiatrist
Release Date: February 21, 2025

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Introduction

In Moment 201, The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett delves into the profound connection between diet and mental health with esteemed Harvard Psychiatrist, Dr. Chris Palmer. Challenging conventional perceptions, Dr. Palmer presents compelling evidence that diet plays a crucial role in mental well-being, a notion often dismissed by many in the mental health field.

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Diet as a Pillar of Mental Health

Dr. Palmer opens the discussion by highlighting the widespread skepticism among mental health clinicians regarding the impact of diet on mental illness.

“[...] 95% of mental health clinicians think it's laughable that anybody would suggest that diet can play a role in mental illness. I think it's laughable.”
— Dr. Chris Palmer [00:03]

Contrary to this skepticism, Dr. Palmer argues that a comprehensive analysis of scientific studies—ranging from neuroimaging to genetic research—reveals that mental disorders are fundamentally metabolic in nature. He asserts that diet significantly influences metabolism, thereby playing a pivotal role in the mental health epidemic.

“Mental disorders are metabolic in nature, and there is no questioning whatsoever. It is incontrovertible that diet plays a massive, huge role in metabolism.”
— Dr. Chris Palmer [00:27]

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Personal Journey and Scientific Insights

Dr. Palmer shares his personal battle with metabolic syndrome and its debilitating effects on his mental health. Despite adhering to a low-fat, processed diet—widely regarded as healthy—he experienced worsening health metrics and persistent low-grade depression. His turning point came when he transitioned to a low-carbohydrate diet, resulting in the complete reversal of his metabolic syndrome and a marked improvement in his mental state.

“Within three months, my metabolic syndrome was completely gone. But the thing that just dumbfounded me was that my mental health was better than it had ever been in my entire life.”
— Dr. Chris Palmer [03:54]

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The Role of Mitochondria in Mental Health

The conversation shifts to the intricate relationship between mitochondrial function and diet. Dr. Palmer explains that processed foods laden with artificial compounds disrupt mitochondrial efficiency, leading to dysregulation that mirrors the effects of extreme stress or trauma.

“The mitochondria don't know how to deal with [processed foods]. So it's causing the same sort of dysregulation and dysfunction that they might see if we'd gone through an extreme trauma...”
— Dr. Chris Palmer [05:07]

This dysfunction at the cellular level cascades into broader metabolic and mental health issues, emphasizing the need for dietary interventions to restore mitochondrial health.

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Customized Dietary Interventions for Mental Well-being

When asked about specific dietary recommendations, Dr. Palmer emphasizes a personalized approach, considering each individual's unique mental and metabolic health status. He advocates for comprehensive assessments that include diet, sleep, substance use, and medication to formulate effective dietary strategies.

“I would want to meet them, where they're at and just find out, well, where are you at? What are you eating? Do you have preferences or demands for what your diet should be?”
— Dr. Chris Palmer [12:07]

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Correlation Between Diet and Mental Health Disorders

Drawing from his book, Dr. Palmer presents alarming statistics that underscore the deep-seated links between diet and various mental health disorders:

• ADHD and Obesity: Individuals with ADHD are more likely to develop obesity.
• Obesity and Mental Disorders: Obese individuals have a 50% higher likelihood of developing bipolar disorder and a 25% higher chance of experiencing anxiety or depression.
• Puberty-Related Weight Gain: Weight gain during puberty increases the risk of depression by 400% by age 24.
• Insulin Resistance: Children with insulin resistance at age nine face a 500% increased risk of developing conditions like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.
• Alzheimer's Disease: All mental disorders correlate with a 50% to 2000% increased risk of Alzheimer’s disease.

These statistics highlight metabolism as the common thread uniting various mental health challenges.

“Only 7% of U.S. citizens have no signs of metabolic health problems, meaning 93% or so of U.S. residents will have at least one of the biomarkers of metabolic syndrome...”
— Dr. Chris Palmer [11:19]

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Conclusion

In this enlightening episode, Dr. Chris Palmer dismantles the myth that diet and mental health are unrelated, presenting a robust case for the metabolic underpinnings of mental disorders. His personal experience and extensive scientific research advocate for dietary interventions as a cornerstone of mental health treatment. Dr. Palmer’s insights challenge listeners to re-evaluate their dietary choices and consider their profound impact on mental well-being.

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Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Chris Palmer [00:03]: "Most people have no clue that diet plays any role in mental illness or Mental Health."
• Dr. Chris Palmer [03:54]: “Within three months, my metabolic syndrome was completely gone. But the thing that just dumbfounded me was that my mental health was better than it had ever been in my entire life.”
• Dr. Chris Palmer [05:07]: “The mitochondria don't know how to deal with [processed foods]. So it's causing the same sort of dysregulation and dysfunction that they might see if we'd gone through an extreme trauma...”
• Dr. Chris Palmer [12:07]: “I would want to meet them, where they're at and just find out, well, where are you at? What are you eating? Do you have preferences or demands for what your diet should be?”

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Connect with Dr. Chris Palmer:
For more insights and resources on the connection between diet and mental health, visit Dr. Chris Palmer’s Book and follow him on Instagram and LinkedIn.

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Transcript

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

Most people have no clue that diet plays any role in mental illness or Mental Health. 95% of mental health clinicians think it's laughable that anybody would suggest that diet can play a role in mental illness. I think it's laughable.

[Joe Rogan]

What do you think?

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

I think if you do a deep dive into the science, all of the science that we have accumulated over the last 100 years and longer sometimes, that if you do a deep dive into all of those neuroimaging studies that we've been doing, all of the genetic studies, we've been doing, all of the neurotransmitter and hormone studies and trauma studies and adverse childhood experiences studies, studies, if you do a deep dive into the science and you understand what is happening in the brains and bodies of people as a consequence of those things or what could be causing those things. If you put it all together, you come to this sound bite that mental disorders are metabolic in nature, and there is no questioning whatsoever. It is incontrovertible that diet plays a massive, huge role in metabolism. And therefore, I believe very strongly that diet might be playing a role in the mental health epidemic that we are seeing. And it also might provide an avenue of hope and healing and recovery. And I use the word might as the scientist in me is the clinician in me. I know without certainty it can heal and recover people who have had chronic, horrible, debilitating mental illnesses. And I know from my own personal story, when I was in medical school and residency, I'm still suffering from low grade depression, ocd, other symptoms. But I also developed what's called metabolic syndrome. I developed high blood pressure, high cholesterol, pre diabetes, and I wasn't really overweight. I was exercising. I was following a low fat diet, mostly of processed foods because they're cheaper. But that was the diet that was touted as a health, a healthy diet. It was low in fat, and as long as it was low in fat, that was supposed to be good for us. And my metabolic syndrome just kept getting worse and worse. And so at some point, in order to treat my metabolic syndrome, I changed my diet to essentially a low carbohydrate diet. And within three months, my metabolic syndrome was completely gone. But the thing that just dumbfounded me was that my mental health was better than it had ever been in my entire life. And I just couldn't believe what I was experiencing. I didn't know that I could be that kind of a person. I didn't know that I could be happy and positive and energetic and confident. I had no idea. I didn't think that was in me. And by changing my diet, all of.

[Joe Rogan]

Those things happened at the level of the mitochondria. Are you saying, do you believe that because you changed your diet to more sort of natural, healthier foods at the level of the mitochondria, the mitochondria were able to function more naturally themselves and in a more functional way, which meant that they released the chemicals they released and the processes they go through were more consistent with positive mental health. Is that like the simpleton's way of understanding it? And before then you talked about man made compounds in the foods, et cetera. I'm assuming you're saying that some of the modern foods that we eat, the ultra processed foods that have all of these random named chemicals inside them that we see on the labels, the mitochondria don't know how to deal with that. So it's causing the same sort of dysregulation and dysfunction that they might see if we'd gone through an extreme trauma or something else or some other adverse environmental situation. It's just this dysfunction of the mitochondria which is causing the knock on effects we see. But there's many things that can cause dysfunction in the mitochondria and we went through a bunch of them earlier. Is that like a simple way of understanding it?

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

100%.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay, great.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

Perfect.

[Joe Rogan]

Super interesting. Okay, so on that point, then we have to zoom in on this thing of diet. If you wanted my mitochondria to be perfect and maybe even give me a case study of, I don't know, patients you've worked with that you've prescribed a certain diet to. What diet? What food would you tell me to eat and what would you tell me not to eat?

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

So I actually don't have a one size fits all prescription. And so I want to say that up front. So I would want to know who am I working with and how is their mental and metabolic health.

[Unknown]

Now me.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

So you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

So I would want more details. Are you having symptoms of any mental health condition?

[Joe Rogan]

I would say no. However, I can have moments where I feel a little bit anxious. So, you know, I've been through a lot of, I'd say, like stressful events in my life because I was running a big business, we had hundreds of employees, paydays all the time. So I had this, at one point, I had this constant subtle stress.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

And so I would want to know, do you feel like you have anxiety for no good reason?

[Joe Rogan]

Sometimes. Sometimes it can feel a little bit like that it's very infrequent, I'd say. But I can also have moments where I just think of something and then I get the same kind of like. It's almost like the fight or flight response has just kicked in.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

But you think of something adverse or stressful.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

So.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

So the. So the one thing I would say about that, and we could get into a lot more details, which we probably don't want to do now. I didn't mind podcast, but my strong guess based on just what you've said is that that level of stress and anxiety is quote unquote normal.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

Because you are sensing I have to go do something that's really scary right now or I have to go do something that's going to ruin someone's life or that that might threaten my success. It is normal and actually healthy to have anxiety and stress in those situations. The anxiety and stress can sometimes be quite helpful and adaptive because it can make you pause and reflect on, is this really what I want to do? As opposed to being overly confident and just proceeding. Your own personal history almost certainly informs your level of stress response. And again, so if you go back to your own traumas, you're going to remember, when I'm facing a situation like this, it's helpful to be on hyper alert. It's helpful to be hypervigilant, and your body and brain will remember that helped you navigate this safely and effectively.

[Joe Rogan]

But if I have that profile, if I have that sort of mental profile now as I sit here and then for the next decade I ate processed junk food, am I going to send my mitochondria into disarray which is going to increase the probability that I have a mental health disorder?

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

Yes, I think, yes, we've got, you know, we. There's no way we will ever be able to do a human randomized controlled trial to test that precise, unethical hypothesis. But we have large epidemiological studies that strongly suggest that people who eat a lot of ultra processed food have higher risk for developing depression, anxiety and other mental disorders. And based on the science, the granular science, based on animal models, so we can do that to mice and rats. And in fact, that's exactly what we see in mice and rats. We feed them an obesogenic diet, which is usually high in fat, high in carbohydrates, ultra processed foods. Some researchers have fed rats and mice cafeteria diets where they feed them a lot of delicious junk food. And those mice develop higher rates of obesity, but also higher rates of diabetes and prediabetes. And oh, by the way, also higher rates of depression and anxiety, because those are the two things that we can kind of measure in mice and rats. We can't necessarily measure ADHD symptoms. It's really hard to actually measure psychotic symptoms. But we can measure depression and anxiety symptoms pretty well in animals. And so in animal models, we know that that's unequivocally true.

[Joe Rogan]

And we see the same in humans, though, because I was reading your book and in chapter four, you say people with ADHD are more likely to develop obesity. People who are obese are 50% more likely to develop bipolar and 25% more likely to develop anxiety or depression. And weight gain around the time of puberty leads to a 400% increase in the chance of depression by the age of 24.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

Yes. And insulin resistance at age nine increases your chances of developing a psychotic at risk mental state, which is like, meaning you're at high risk for developing schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, 500%.

[Joe Rogan]

And Alzheimer's.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

All mental disorders are associated with an increased risk of Alzheimer's disease. Anywhere from the lowest is 50% increased risk, and the highest is 2000% increased risk.

[Joe Rogan]

And the thread that unites all of these problems is, is metabolism.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

Metabolism. And at the end of the day, you have to talk about mitochondria in order to understand metabolism. Only 7% of U.S. citizens have no signs of metabolic health problems, meaning 93% or so of U.S. residents will have at least one of the biomarkers of metabolic syndrome, meaning they have prediabetes or abnormal lipids or high blood pressure or abdominal obesity or abdominal fat, excessive abdominal fat.

[Joe Rogan]

So what do we offer those 93%.

[Dr. Chris Palmer]

So those people. Diet interventions would absolutely be a part of a healing strategy. A part of it, not the only strategy. I would want to know about their sleep. I would want to know about substance use. I would want to know about medications, lots of things. But for dietary interventions, I would want to meet them, where they're at and just find out, well, where are you at? What are you eating? Do you have preferences or demands for what your diet should be?

[Unknown]

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